Watch NJ Senate Primary election results here.

[llepard]

www.njn.net

Click through to watch live on line.

I have it on now. They are saying Zimmer is the front runner.

Surprise, Murray is going to crush him.

Results start at 8pm.

[MRoCkEd]

expect the worst..hope for the best

[CoreyBowen999]

Go Murray!!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Surprise, Murray is going to crush him.


I sure hope so.

[yongrel]

Thanks llepard!

Fingers are crossed.

[itshappening]

thanks Lorry!

[Nirvikalpa]

Let's go Murray! :D Polls just closed!

Live Stream: http://www.njn.net/television/webcast/livestreaming.html

[milly]

Let's go Murray! We need a win!

[DrCap]

Welcome back LLepard!

[malkusm]

Good to see you again Mr. Lepard. Thanks for the link.

Let's hope that the people of New Jersey showed up strong at the polls today.

[ARealConservative]

this site is updating right now:

http://www.nj.com/elections/

[MGreen]

A Zimmer campaign official just said either Zimmer or Pennachio would be great candidates for the race in November. He's said it a few times, never saying Sabrin.

It would be so great if Sabrin wins. But I'm very cautiously optimistic.

[CoreyBowen999]

Damn. getting crushed lol

[malkusm]

Hmm, Zimmer 69% in the 1st precinct reporting....good thing there are 6,289 precincts to go...

[llepard]

A Zimmer campaign official just said either Zimmer or Pennachio would be great candidates for the race in November. He's said it a few times, never saying Sabrin.

It would be so great if Sabrin wins. But I'm very cautiously optimistic.

These people are vile. They talk as though Murray does not exist. Doom on them.

What pieces of human excrement.

[majinkoola]

This tool just said Zimmer was the most fiscally conservative member of the House.

[RPTXState]

Anyone running in the 7th District that's friendly to the RPR?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Zimmer 774 votes (71%)
Sabrin 165 votes (15%)
Pennacchio 152 votes (14%)

Ouch.

[MRoCkEd]

Anyone running in the 7th District that's friendly to the RPR?
Darren Young

[Delaware]

political trash. We need to get these guys out of office.

[itshappening]

These people are vile. They talk as though Murray does not exist. Doom on them.

What pieces of human excrement.

does it remind you of the blackballing of a certain Dr. Paul....

[malkusm]

Funny that they go from Zimmer's camp straight to Pennachio's camp...still no mention of Murray.

Good thing it's votes that matter, and not coverage...

[LibertyIn08]

Seems like Zimmer is opening up well.

Murray not well liked by the media, it seems.

[amy31416]

Zimmer 774 votes (71%)
Sabrin 165 votes (15%)
Pennacchio 152 votes (14%)

Ouch.

It's just one precinct reporting so far though.

New Jersey - 1 of 6290 Precincts Reporting - 0%
Name Party Votes Vote %
Zimmer , Dick GOP 804 69%
Sabrin , Murray GOP 184 16%
Pennacchio , Joe GOP 172 15%

[Delaware]

I really really dislike clueless people.....ie most voters. Oh the party wants Dick Zimmer, ill vote for him.

[itshappening]

because Murray exposes the lies and corruption in state politics, surprise surprise they dont cover him

[CoreyBowen999]

It's just one precinct reporting so far though.

New Jersey - 1 of 6290 Precincts Reporting - 0%
Name Party Votes Vote %
Zimmer , Dick GOP 804 69%
Sabrin , Murray GOP 184 16%
Pennacchio , Joe GOP 172 15%

where are you getting 69%?

[malkusm]

What, no live coverage at the Sabrin campaign? A pre-taped, 20-second clip of an advisor???

Haha...of course.

[cska80]

This sucks. We had high hopes for this one...

[amy31416]

where are you getting 69%?

http://www.nj.com/elections/

[MGreen]

Wow, a 30 second pitch by a Murray campaign official.

The media does not like the message, no matter the state.

[llepard]

What, no live coverage at the Sabrin campaign? A pre-taped, 20-second clip of an advisor???

Haha...of course.

Yeah, and George could have done a better job.

ANTI WAR George. It is the key issue!

Although to be fair he probably said it and they probably edited it out. UGH.

I hate the fascists in this country.

[malkusm]

Now 8 precincts reporting...

Zimmer , Dick GOP 1,205 66%
Sabrin , Murray GOP 327 18%
Pennacchio , Joe GOP 281 15%

[MRoCkEd]

U.S. Senate - GOP Primary
New Jersey - 8 of 6290 Precincts Reporting - 0%
Name Party Votes Vote %
Zimmer , Dick GOP 1,205 66%
Sabrin , Murray GOP 327 18%
Pennacchio , Joe GOP 281 15%

[majinkoola]

Don't worry just yet. There's like 1% in.

[yongrel]

Well, this blows.

[MGreen]

He's very slowly gaining ground!

[malkusm]

Well, this blows.

Haha relax....NOT EVEN 1% reporting. 8 precincts of 6290 = 0.1272%

[RonPaulFanInGA]

It's early but it's breaking poorly.

But it can't be THIS big of a blowout. The media acted like it was a toss-up with Pennacchio as a legit contender to win.

[winston_blade]

Zimmer , Dick GOP 2,073 63%
Pennacchio , Joe GOP 679 21%
Sabrin , Murray GOP 552 17%

[yongrel]

Haha relax....NOT EVEN 1% reporting. 8 precincts of 6290 = 0.1272%

That logic has worked so well this primary season.

"Don't worry! Only 1% of New Hampshire is reporting so far."

[Cowlesy]

That logic has worked so well this primary season.

"Don't worry! Only 1% of New Hampshire is reporting so far."

Happy Thoughts! *happy kitten picture here for Yongrel*

Remember all the counties we saw Ron Paul at 70% only to fall to 9% once a giant splash of votes came in.

[amy31416]

It's early but it's breaking poorly.

But it can't be THIS big of a blowout. The media acted like it was a toss-up with Pennacchio as a legit contender to win.

Yeah. Man, I hope it's not this bad after all the work that's been done. I got at least 4 phone calls from Sabrin and I'm not even in NJ.

[ARealConservative]

That logic has worked so well this primary season.

"Don't worry! Only 1% of New Hampshire is reporting so far."

.0036% has reported.

[winston_blade]

.0036% has reported.

I think you mean .36%

[malkusm]

That logic has worked so well this primary season.

"Don't worry! Only 1% of New Hampshire is reporting so far."

So why are you still here?

There's no reason to be here and post if you're going to be negative just for the sake of being negative. If you're offering constructive criticism that's one thing...completely another to post just to say something negative when it's empty and meaningless.

[majinkoola]

I'm not saying Murray's going to win, but there's no way these percentages stay the same or the media has been insanely off on their predictions.

[ARealConservative]

I think you mean .36%

sure, but my math gives me a warmer, fuzzier feeling.

I'll go with mine.

[MRoCkEd]

U.S. Senate R
REPUBLICANS
Zimmer 2,675 60%
Sabrin 911 20%
Pennacchio 875 20%

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/giuliani%20speech.jpg

[surf]

nice to see you again llepard. you're right - it's about the f#cking war, and about peace, and none of these pansies will touch it.

[winston_blade]

U.S. Senate - GOP Primary
New Jersey - 131 of 6290 Precincts Reporting - 2%
Name Party Votes Vote %
Zimmer , Dick GOP 3,640 59%
Pennacchio , Joe GOP 1,392 23%
Sabrin , Murray GOP 1,143 19%

[yongrel]

So why are you still here?

There's no reason to be here and post if you're going to be negative just for the sake of being negative. If you're offering constructive criticism that's one thing...completely another to post just to say something negative when it's empty and meaningless.

I'm here for the free candy.

[ARealConservative]

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/giuliani%20speech.jpg

:D

[malkusm]

http://zioneocon.blogspot.com/giuliani%20speech.jpg

What the hell....

Giuliani, Rudy GOP 911,000 96%
Zimmer, Dick GOP 3,640 2%
Pennacchio, Joe GOP 1,392 1%
Sabrin, Murray GOP 1,143 1%

?!?!

[Delaware]

I hate Guiliani so much i wouldve voted democrat against him! and thats saying something.

[MRoCkEd]

What the hell....

Giuliani, Rudy GOP 911,000 96%
Zimmer, Dick GOP 3,640 2%
Pennacchio, Joe GOP 1,392 1%
Sabrin, Murray GOP 1,143 1%

?!?!
Global Terrorism, Islamofascism, 9/11, September 11th.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Who were those two other congressional candidates running on Sabrin's "Constitutional Republican" line in NJ?

[Kludge]

Meh :(

[ThePieSwindler]

Heres to BJ Lawson and Vern McKinley... if we can get just ONE more RPR in congress this cycle, id consider that a success, considering the short time frame.

[No1ButPaul08]

What the hell....

Giuliani, Rudy GOP 911,000 96%
Zimmer, Dick GOP 3,640 2%
Pennacchio, Joe GOP 1,392 1%
Sabrin, Murray GOP 1,143 1%

?!?!

You got Rudy's # wrong

It was 911,911

[malkusm]

Zimmer slowly coming down in percentage...

Zimmer, Dick GOP 6,434 54%
Pennacchio, Joe GOP 3,032 25%
Sabrin, Murray GOP 2,528 21%

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

5% reporting: Zimmer's down from 59% to 54% and Sabrin's up from 19% to 21%. Keep gaining on 'em, Murray!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

I think B.J. Lawson and Amit Singh are our best chances for a new version of Ron Paul in congress.

[malkusm]

You got Rudy's # wrong

It was 911,911

Damn you're right! When I updated they must not have counted the 911 people from district #911......;)

[yongrel]

So much for Murray being the frontrunner...

[amy31416]

Heres to BJ Lawson and Vern McKinley... if we can get just ONE more RPR in congress this cycle, id consider that a success, considering the short time frame.

Here's to 'em, let's make sure the results for BJ in November show him winning by a landslide.

[malkusm]

Zimmer down to 52% now....

Zimmer, Dick GOP 9,383 52%
Pennacchio, Joe GOP 4,755 26%
Sabrin, Murray GOP 3,877 22%

[MRoCkEd]

You got Rudy's # wrong

It was 911,911
That's an extraordinary statement. Coming from someone who lived through the attacks of 9/11, that you would ever suggest that I got Rudy's # wrong because it was 911,911. I've never heard that before, and I've heard some extraordinary explanations for why I got Rudy's # wrong.


On topic, I hope the precincts still to report are strong for murray - but we always had the same hope in all the RP primaries...

[LibertyIn08]

Here's to 'em, let's make sure the results for BJ in November show him winning by a landslide.

His district is heavily Democratic. Don't get your hopes up.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Keep an eye on Fernando Powers, Donna Ward, and Darren Young's numbers as well. They're also Ron Paul Republicans along with Murray.

[amy31416]

So much for Murray being the frontrunner...

Fucking sucks ass.

[SnappleLlama]

That's an extraordinary statement. Coming from someone who lived through the attacks of 9/11, that you would ever suggest that I got Rudy's # wrong because it was 911,911. I've never heard that before, and I've heard some extraordinary explanations for why I got Rudy's # wrong.


LOL!!

[Kludge]

Keep an eye on Fernando Powers, Donna Ward, and Darren Young's numbers as well. They're also Ron Paul Republicans along with Murray.

Young , Darren GOP
6 votes
1%

[malkusm]

That's an extraordinary statement. Coming from someone who lived through the attacks of 9/11, that you would ever suggest that I got Rudy's # wrong because it was 911,911. I've never heard that before, and I've heard some extraordinary explanations for why I got Rudy's # wrong.


This wins the Rudy portion of tonight's contest....

[OptionsTrader]

Third place with 5% reporting.

[amy31416]

His district is heavily Democratic. Don't get your hopes up.

Reality really can suck. Is there anything good going on?

[Kludge]

Reality really can suck. Is there anything good going on?

I ordered a pizza earlier, and it was damn good.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Wow, this sucks. I was convinced he really had a chance, only to be blasted out of the water (so far) by another mainstream neo-con shut in. Yet again, I'm having a harder and harder time seeing why we're bothering with this GOP project. One thing's for sure: all across this land the GOP is an infested, ruined asylum filled with drooling imbeciles.

Before the crypto-fascist tactics at the higher level conventions and the jeering from rank and file puppets, I had thought most Republicans were just dumbed down by the media. Now, it seems like it's something more. They want the war. They really, really do. They really are so terrified of foreign terrorists that they are happy to surrender their freedoms to their party. And as long as their taxes are kept low, they don't care to hear a peep breathed about inflation (even if they actually understood half of what someone like Ron Paul says). And yes, even a good many of them want McCain.

The GOP is an enormous cancer ward that deserves to be nuked and splintered if we cannot make any progress by 2010. We don't have time to watch every great Ron Paul Republican get bulldozed in primaries with nothing to show for it but a shrug of the shoulders and a "better luck next time." There may not be a next time as the hell unleashed by clueless Dems and malevolent neo-cons grinds on, leaving us with a little less to work with each election cycle.

[cska80]

The reality is we're outnumbered by corporate and citizen welfare recipients. Special interests rule the day.

[leonster]

So all this means... is six more years of Lautenberg for NJ.

Way to commit political suicide, NJ GOP voters!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

http://www.motherjones.com/mojoblog/rudy_giuliani_drag.jpg
"I feel pretty, oh, so pretty, I feel pretty and witty and gay...."

[llepard]

The reality is we're outnumbered by corporate and citizen welfare recipients. Special interests rule the day.

Amen brother.

We need a third party. A new party. It is going to take years to turn this country around.

People want to be deceived, so let them be deceived.

The Republican machine in NJ is strong. NJ Republicans do not deserve Murray. Doom on them.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Enjoy losing in November Dick Zimmer.

[OptionsTrader]

Amen brother.

We need a third party. A new party. It is going to take years to turn this country around.

People want to be deceived, so let them be deceived.

The Republican machine in NJ is strong. NJ Republicans do not deserve Murray. Doom on them.

Glad to see you around here Llepard. Wish the NJ numbers were more encouraging.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Amen brother.

We need a third party. A new party. It is going to take years to turn this country around.

People want to be deceived, so let them be deceived.

The Republican machine in NJ is strong. NJ Republicans do not deserve Murray. Doom on them.

We're feeling disadvantaged, ignored, undercut, and disenfranchised now? Just WAIT until we try to go third party.

[malkusm]

Agreed....if conquering the GOP is climbing a mountain, winning with a third party is landing on Mars.

[llepard]

We're feeling disadvantaged, ignored, undercut, and disenfranchised now? Just WAIT until we try to go third party.

No. When the country falls apart, there will be a once in a lifetime opportunity. We are in the Great Depression, part 2. We are bankrupt. The dollar is going to zero. We must continue the fight or the solution of the other side will be WW3.

When people are pissed off enough they will hear our message. We just have to spread it and keep spreading it.

We do not have to win every battle, but we need to continue the fight.

[itshappening]

Zimmer will get slaughtered in November, waste of time for the NJ GOP, are they idiots?

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Dick Zimmer spent 300,000 dollars of his own money on this election (http://www.fec.gov/DisclosureSearch/HSRefreshCandList.do?category=stateS_all&stateName=NJ). All for the honor of losing by around 15 points to Frank Lautenberg this November.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

We're going to suffer a lot of losses in the future, but only because we suddenly have so many candidates available to carry our banner. If we can get just one new Constitutionalist in DC each election season (and we all know how easy it is to get an incumbent reelected after the first initial challenge), consider our movement a grand success.

[Cowlesy]

No. When the country falls apart, there will be a once in a lifetime opportunity. We are in the Great Depression, part 2. We are bankrupt. The dollar is going to zero. We must continue the fight or the solution of the other side will be WW3.

When people are pissed off enough they will hear our message. We just have to spread it and keep spreading it.

We do not have to win every battle, but we need to continue the fight.

QFT.

+1776

Gotta keep on keepin' on.

No matter what happens...

...no fucking surrender.

[humanic]

This is disheartening. Murray is our main man (besides RP).

[mmink15]

We're going to suffer a lot of losses in the future, but only because we suddenly have so many candidates available to carry our banner. If we can get just one new Constitutionalist in DC each election season (and we all know how easy it is to get an incumbent reelected after the first initial challenge), consider our movement a grand success.

That's the first thing I've heard all day that is uplifting and realistic

[Kludge]

Sabrin just dipped below 20% with 20% reporting.

A loss for us tonight =(

We're running out of people to hope for this year ;) Time to focus resources?

[AdamT]

Do they use Diebold in NJ?

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

Keep in mind that New Jersey politics is as Byzantine as it gets anywhere in America. NJ is the most well-preserved relic of the old days when politics were literally decided in a smoke filled back room by big party bosses. It is TOUGH to break through in NJ, but Murray has definitely started a brush fire in the minds of New Jersians.

[LibertyIn08]

Do they use Diebold in NJ?

Sequioa, who does have problems. (Lawsuit on their hands, actually, by the NJ clerks.)

However, lets not go around throwing conspiracy theories. That is childish, and ultimately a fruitless endeavour.

[Cowlesy]

Sabrin just dipped below 20% with 20% reporting.

A loss for us tonight =(

We're running out of people to hope for this year ;) Time to focus resources?

Murray and team put forth a Trojan effort. I know that he, Paul, George, Luke and the others I never met fought as hard as possible.

[limequat]

Do they use Diebold in NJ?

Damn, I wanted to be the first one to call vote fraud!

[RP4Pres2008]

Tonight is a loss for us and Sabrin. However, the future will hopefully be more kind to our side!

[LibertyIn08]

Murray and team put forth a Trojan effort. I know that he, Paul, George, Luke and the others I never met fought as hard as possible.

I don't see one thing wrong with polling above 15% for a Vanguard effort. That can be easily improved upon in future elections.

This is good news, in my opinion, not bad. I was certain he wouldn't break 10%.

[OptionsTrader]

Damn, I wanted to be the first one to call vote fraud!

It isn't necessary to go through the trouble of altering Diebold bits when voters are fucking idiots.

[IRO-bot]

It isn't necessary to go through the trouble of altering Diebold bits when voters are fucking idiots.

QFT.

You can't win when the people want stuff for "free".
The only free thing people don't want is "FREEdom". *shrugs*

[amy31416]

Murray and team put forth a Trojan effort. I know that he, Paul, George, Luke and the others I never met fought as hard as possible.

I know the campaign put forth a huge effort, so what was the cause of the miserable failure? Was it media issues? Too many gimmicks? Personality? Was Zimmer really all that great?

[Cowlesy]

It isn't necessary to go through the trouble of altering Diebold bits when voters are fucking idiots.

Quoted. For. Truth.

[llepard]

I know the campaign put forth a huge effort, so what was the cause of the miserable failure? Was it media issues? Too many gimmicks? Personality? Was Zimmer really all that great?

Money and machine.

Murray did not have enough of either.

[OptionsTrader]

I know the campaign put forth a huge effort, so what was the cause of the miserable failure? Was it media issues? Too many gimmicks? Personality? Was Zimmer really all that great?

Zimmer was "hand picked" by the Republican establishment at the last second, he didn't even want to run. The Republican machine got behind him plain and simple.

[aspiringconstitutionalist]

I know the campaign put forth a huge effort, so what was the cause of the miserable failure? Was it media issues? Too many gimmicks? Personality? Was Zimmer really all that great?

It's New Jersey. Party bosses control everything. All things considered, a revolutionary candidate like Sabrin shouldn't have gotten more than 10%.

[DirtMcGirt]

Damn. Vern and Amit need to pick us up next week!!!

[rajibo]

I'm at work right now in this god-forsaken state. I feel like I need a shower.

[wgadget]

I heard that the corruption in NJ is rampant.

[Shotdown1027]

Does someone have a URL link, I cant watch the tv show.

[amy31416]

Money and machine.

Murray did not have enough of either.

Okay, the money aspect is probably one of the easier, more clear-cut issues. The machine, well, maybe places like NJ are best avoided for now.


Zimmer was "hand picked" by the Republican establishment at the last second, he didn't even want to run. The Republican machine got behind him plain and simple.

Makes sense.


It's New Jersey. Party bosses control everything. All things considered, a revolutionary candidate like Sabrin shouldn't have gotten more than 10%.

Well, we did well in a sense then, but again, maybe we shouldn't try in these types of areas yet.

[OptionsTrader]

Does someone have a URL link, I cant watch the tv show.

http://www.njn.net/television/webcast/livestreaming.html

[LibertyIn08]

Okay, the money aspect is probably one of the easier, more clear-cut issues. The machine, well, maybe places like NJ are best avoided for now.

Get control of the machine. Robertson and the Evangelicals employed a similar strategy as us, and now are one of the more influential groups within the party. Work within the hierarchy.

This is a long-term strategy.

[wgadget]

Evangelicals are currently a god-forsaken bunch in the GOP. Most are sitting out the election altogether.

[rockandrollsouls]

I'm pretty upset...I find it hard to believe he's coming in behind pennachio. He slayed in all of the debates...he was really on fire....:(

[thrillhouse]

I wouldn't call today "a huge disappointment". While it is a little disheartening that Murray will not be the nominee, note the trend - Ron Paul only got 5% of the vote in the Presidential primary held February. Here Murray is getting 4x that currently near 20%.

Zimmer is the party hand picked nominee He is nothing more than a name with the backing of the party. He has absolutely no chance in the fall in a state where democrats outnumber republicans 2 to 1. Pennachino and Murray ran anti-establishment campaigns and probably took votes from each other. No one really knew anything about the candidates. the few that do follow noted how well murray fared in the debates.

while new jersey sinks farther and farther into debt, we the people of new jersey have no one to blame but ourselves.

Murray for governor!!!!

[RPTXState]

I'm pretty upset...I find it hard to believe he's coming in behind pennachio. He slayed in all of the debates...he was really on fire....:(

You mean the debates nobody watched?

[yongrel]

Get control of the machine. Robertson and the Evangelicals employed a similar strategy as us, and now are one of the more influential groups within the party. Work within the hierarchy.

This is a long-term strategy.

Indeed. It's too bad there aren't more politically savvy folks coming to prominence in the Revolution just yet. Most of us have eyes way bigger than our stomachs and don't/didn't understand how the American political process works.

This will change.

[amy31416]

Get control of the machine. Robertson and the Evangelicals employed a similar strategy as us, and now are one of the more influential groups within the party. Work within the hierarchy.

This is a long-term strategy.

I agree, I'm just saying that for the short-term, perhaps we should focus the most in areas where we have a shot, or some support. Real people spent some real money on the campaign, and perhaps it would have had a lot more effect if spent differently.

Perhaps in areas like Montana, Idaho, Washington, etc.

[OptionsTrader]

He slayed in all of the debates...he was really on fire....:(

So did Ron Paul, from our perspective. But from the perspective of war loving blood thirsty neocons, they were both speaking greek.

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

I watched the entire NJ debate on Tube and Murray decimated both of those puppets.
That Pinocchio guy seemed ok though, but the party hack Zimmer didn't offer anything of substance in two hours of debate.
Why don't people want substance???

[Badger Paul]

Lautenberg will destroy Zimmer in the general. At least as the GOP keep nuking itself with boss ridden and bad candidates, we can move into the ruins, take over and rebuild.

[Eric21ND]

Agreed....if conquering the GOP is climbing a mountain, winning with a third party is landing on Mars.
Tell that to Ventura.

[LibertyIn08]

I agree, I'm just saying that for the short-term, perhaps we should focus the most in areas where we have a shot, or some support. Real people spent some real money on the campaign, and perhaps it would have had a lot more effect if spent differently.

Perhaps in areas like Montana, Idaho, Washington, etc.

You live and you learn. After this is all over, it would be prudent to set up multiple PACs and organizations dedicated to producing viable strategies for the movement.

Better coordination and use of funds would eliminate the waste of resources, and allow us to focus on the most prudent races, while still encouraging wide-spread Ron Paul Republican runs.

Perhaps we should start a general strategy forum and begin work on this soon. This needs to be accomplished as soon as possible.

[rockandrollsouls]

So did Ron Paul, from our perspective. But from the perspective of war loving blood thirsty neocons, they were both speaking greek.

It's not just my opinion, it was the opinion of the people covering the debates at the time:(

And, I'm sure the elderly have nothing better to do than watch the debates...I just don't get it ugh.

[amy31416]

You live and you learn. After this is all over, it would be prudent to set up multiple PACs and organizations dedicated to producing viable strategies for the movement.

Better coordination and use of funds would eliminate the waste of resources, and allow us to focus on the most prudent races, while still encouraging wide-spread Ron Paul Republican runs.

Perhaps we should start a general strategy forum and begin work on this soon. This needs to be accomplished as soon as possible.

I agree 100%, and have volunteered to be involved in such a thing. Tarzan tried to take the reigns and start this up and there was so little interest that it was abandoned.

Not sure how to get interest in this sort of thing up.

[yongrel]

I agree 100%, and have volunteered to be involved in such a thing. Tarzan tried to take the reigns and start this up and there was so little interest that it was abandoned.

Not sure how to get interest in this sort of thing up.

I have a hard time believing that we can become organized independent of conventional political machinery, since history shows us all that this movement of ours dislikes anyone besides themselves taking the reigns.

I cannot express how disgusted I am with how little support Tarzan received in his endeavor.

[amy31416]

I have a hard time believing that we can become organized independent of conventional political machinery, since history shows us all that this movement of ours dislikes anyone besides themselves taking the reigns.

I cannot express how disgusted I am with how little support Tarzan received in his endeavor.

Obviously I'm in agreement on this.

I wouldn't be annoyed by the fact that I donated to Sabrin's campaign right now if I knew we had something in the works to avoid it happening again. Right now I'm just feeling like it's pointless to donate to any other RP Republicans because it's quite possibly just pissing away money.

[amy31416]

I said this in another thread, but it deserves repeating. Maybe this will be the wakeup call you all needed to show you that libertarianism just isn't that popular and we have a hell of a lot of work to do. Did you really think that Sabrin's far right wing platform would go over well in liberal New Jersey? Lautenberg will retain the seat and he would have destroyed Sabrin in the general had he gotten that far.

You're right about NJ, but as far as your statement that libertarianism isn't that popular--why has RP done so well in his district in Texas for so many years? You really don't think it'd go over well in states like Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, Washington, or Nevada?

I beg to differ on that.

[Nirvikalpa]

Murray did the best in Southern NJ - Ocean County was his best showing yet, with 30% of the vote.

If people are that f*cking dumb in this state to re-elect LAUTENBERG (which looks liek is going to happen in November anyway), then you know they have everything coming to them.

I am so pissed off, I can't wait until I move from this god forsaken hell-hole they call a state and I am never coming back...

[rodo1776]

This is a sad event to lose where we thought there was a possibility.
However in reality it should be no surprise.
I am not for third parties. You think this was disappointing then get out there and run 3rd party.
I for one won’t be around if that is what this revolution turns into.

THE ONLY WAY to build a revolution folks is to concentrate at the LOCAL LEVEL, stay in the GOP party, and have good candidates willing to knock on every door (twice) in their district and local volunteers to do the same.

You folks want to try to win congressional seats or senate seats and you have NO EXPERIENCE in campaigns (some of you yes but very few). Sorry but we are all going to be very disappointed. Just as we have been in conventions because of no experience.

However we did gain experience in conventions and caucuses and primaries. BUT NOT IN REAL GENERAL ELECTIONS.

Pick a winnable LOCAL position, work hard win some lose some and take small steps and gain more experience.

Realize that to be successful that this is going to take a long time. Everyone wants something right away. “Oh shit we lost another I’m out a here”

Spend your time and money at the local level leveraging what you have learned so far and using the contacts you have made and ELECT LOCAL CANDIDATES.

We are not going to take over the US Senate and House this year or in the next 4-6 years. Maybe 10 but only if we build a local base.

I hope BJ or Vern can win as they are good candidates and hard workers, however I would rather end the general election nationwide with 20 mayors, 50 city council people, 30 state house reps, 10 state senators, 12 dog catchers, and 5 county commissioners and thousands of then seasoned experienced campaign workers.
That would be a huge success and something to build on.

[LibertyIn08]

This is a sad event to lose where we thought there was a possibility.
However in reality it should be no surprise.
I am not for third parties. You think this was disappointing then get out there and run 3rd party.
I for one won’t be around if that is what this revolution turns into.

THE ONLY WAY to build a revolution folks is to concentrate at the LOCAL LEVEL, stay in the GOP party, and have good candidates willing to knock on every door (twice) in their district and local volunteers to do the same.

You folks want to try to win congressional seats or senate seats and you have NO EXPERIENCE in campaigns (some of you yes but very few). Sorry but we are all going to be very disappointed. Just as we have been in conventions because of no experience.

However we did gain experience in conventions and caucuses and primaries. BUT NOT IN REAL GENERAL ELECTIONS.

Pick a winnable LOCAL position, work hard win some lose some and take small steps and gain more experience.

Realize that to be successful that this is going to take a long time. Everyone wants something right away. “Oh shit we lost another I’m out a here”

Spend your time and money at the local level leveraging what you have learned so far and using the contacts you have made and ELECT LOCAL CANDIDATES.

We are not going to take over the US Senate and House this year or in the next 4-6 years. Maybe 10 but only if we build a local base.

I hope BJ or Vern can win as they are good candidates and hard workers, however I would rather end the general election nationwide with 20 mayors, 50 city council people, 30 state house reps, 10 state senators, 12 dog catchers, and 5 county commissioners and thousands of then seasoned experienced campaign workers.
That would be a huge success and something to build on.

We have a winner, folks.

[ItsTime]

This is just a start folks its amazing we are doing this well.

[AJ Antimony]

Jesus Christ, I must say, the way people were orgasming about this guy I really thought he was going to win, rather than a third place 15%. But that's just me.

[LibertyIn08]

Jesus Christ, I must say, the way people were orgasming about this guy I really thought he was going to win, rather than a third place 15%. But that's just me.

Having false hopes is often much more pleasant than harboring doubt.

;)

[rockandrollsouls]

Jesus Christ, I must say, the way people were orgasming about this guy I really thought he was going to win, rather than a third place 15%. But that's just me.

In a nutshell, that's what I thought was going to happen. It seemed like he was getting more buzz on the street than here in the forum, so I thought good things were going to be happening.

[HenryKnoxFineBooks]

Tell that to Ventura.

Doen't count, Ventura is FROM Mars.

[kombayn]

We have a winner, folks.

+1, it's all about the local level. The libertarian movement/Ron Paul Revolution is something that needs to be built upon so in 10 to 15 years we start witnessing a change in our Government. We have to run as officials, make our opinions known, establish those relationships. :D

[No1ButPaul08]

+1, it's all about the local level. The libertarian movement/Ron Paul Revolution is something that needs to be built upon so in 10 to 15 years we start witnessing a change in our Government. We have to run as officials, make our opinions known, establish those relationships. :D

Didn't you hear, Wayne Allyn Root has a 16 year plan for the Libertarian Party to control the Presidency, Congress, and the States :rolleyes:

[powerofreason]

Didn't you hear, Wayne Allyn Root has a 16 year plan for the Libertarian Party to control the Presidency, Congress, and the States :rolleyes:

rofl what a joker

[Peace&Freedom]

Obviously I'm in agreement on this.

I wouldn't be annoyed by the fact that I donated to Sabrin's campaign right now if I knew we had something in the works to avoid it happening again. Right now I'm just feeling like it's pointless to donate to any other RP Republicans because it's quite possibly just pissing away money.

For senior races, we need to be able to put our money in the right basket of the most viable Paulite candidates, using the standard political criteria (clearly open/vulnerable seat, WINNABLE nomination situation, district trends towards the party you're seeking the nomination for, serious candidate (can raise 400k+, etc.). Otherwise we will spread our resources too thin to support candidates with no practical chance, then wonder whether we have spun our wheels, as above.

[mport1]

This is a sad event to lose where we thought there was a possibility.
However in reality it should be no surprise.
I am not for third parties. You think this was disappointing then get out there and run 3rd party.
I for one won’t be around if that is what this revolution turns into.

THE ONLY WAY to build a revolution folks is to concentrate at the LOCAL LEVEL, stay in the GOP party, and have good candidates willing to knock on every door (twice) in their district and local volunteers to do the same.

You folks want to try to win congressional seats or senate seats and you have NO EXPERIENCE in campaigns (some of you yes but very few). Sorry but we are all going to be very disappointed. Just as we have been in conventions because of no experience.

However we did gain experience in conventions and caucuses and primaries. BUT NOT IN REAL GENERAL ELECTIONS.

Pick a winnable LOCAL position, work hard win some lose some and take small steps and gain more experience.

Realize that to be successful that this is going to take a long time. Everyone wants something right away. “Oh shit we lost another I’m out a here”

Spend your time and money at the local level leveraging what you have learned so far and using the contacts you have made and ELECT LOCAL CANDIDATES.

We are not going to take over the US Senate and House this year or in the next 4-6 years. Maybe 10 but only if we build a local base.

I hope BJ or Vern can win as they are good candidates and hard workers, however I would rather end the general election nationwide with 20 mayors, 50 city council people, 30 state house reps, 10 state senators, 12 dog catchers, and 5 county commissioners and thousands of then seasoned experienced campaign workers.
That would be a huge success and something to build on.

Bingo.

[alaric]

Zimmer will get slaughtered in November, waste of time for the NJ GOP, are they idiots?

yes, they are idiots. remember Bret Schundler? NJGOP stabbed him in the back. No, i take it back, they're not idiots, they're ASSHOLES!:mad:

[alaric]

I wouldn't call today "a huge disappointment". While it is a little disheartening that Murray will not be the nominee, note the trend - Ron Paul only got 5% of the vote in the Presidential primary held February. Here Murray is getting 4x that currently near 20%.

Zimmer is the party hand picked nominee He is nothing more than a name with the backing of the party. He has absolutely no chance in the fall in a state where democrats outnumber republicans 2 to 1. Pennachino and Murray ran anti-establishment campaigns and probably took votes from each other. No one really knew anything about the candidates. the few that do follow noted how well murray fared in the debates.

while new jersey sinks farther and farther into debt, we the people of new jersey have no one to blame but ourselves.

Murray for governor!!!!
simple answer: they didn't have to steal as many votes from murray. he wasn't a threat to PRNJ. Ron Paul was the one they had to steal massive votes from.

[amy31416]

For senior races, we need to be able to put our money in the right basket of the most viable Paulite candidates, using the standard political criteria (clearly open/vulnerable seat, WINNABLE nomination situation, district trends towards the party you're seeking the nomination for, serious candidate (can raise 400k+, etc.). Otherwise we will spread our resources too thin to support candidates with no practical chance, then wonder whether we have spun our wheels, as above.

Right. So what the heck can we do? I'm currently in an area where there are no RP candidates for any office (I may remedy that at some point in the future by moving). So what the hell can I do?

I don't know if the Clark County Dog Catcher candidate is a RP Republican or not, how am I supposed to support him or her? At least the candidates for Congress have a website and some information and a background that I can look into.

It doesn't feel good to be doing nothing.

[angelatc]

Tell that to Ventura.

Ventura had the advantage of name recognition and charisma.

[tnvoter]

He should have ran for Congress.

[Peace&Freedom]

Right. So what the heck can we do? I'm currently in an area where there are no RP candidates for any office (I may remedy that at some point in the future by moving). So what the hell can I do?

I don't know if the Clark County Dog Catcher candidate is a RP Republican or not, how am I supposed to support him or her? At least the candidates for Congress have a website and some information and a background that I can look into.

It doesn't feel good to be doing nothing.

I have doubted the 'one-party solution' of pushing for Ron Paul Republicans here, there and everywhere, as if that was the only party needing reform, and as if they all had a chance running in strong Democratic districts. What I recommend is that we try to take back the entire establishment, across both major parties, and the big media. Start with local races, and taking over local party clubs and conventions where they are takeable---then there will be a broader base of 'our' candidates with elected experience, and less of a machine to fight.

If there is an an open seat and the district trends Democrat (and the nomination is winnable), run a Ron Paul Democrat; if Republican, run a RP Republican. This means doing the local research about district voting demographics, talking to blocs that really vote offline (like at senior centers), instead of to each other online or at impromptu 'outreach' meetup events. Encourage some Paulites to get journalism and TV broadcasting jobs, and work their way into the power positions at those press organs. If a Paulite or LP candidate does get elected, be prepared to apply to work on their staff---don't leave them alone in the legislature to fight for liberty all by themselves. That sort of thing.

[FireofLiberty]

Reality really can suck. Is there anything good going on?

We're winning over Democrats and have had over 80 people contact the campaign interested in being interns.

[FireofLiberty]

It makes me sad thinking about all of the money that was donated to Sabrin that could have been donated to BJ (or a couple of other RPRs candidates for that matter who, along with BJ, have always been more viable candidates with better chances than Murray Sabrin and therefore, I think, were far more deserving of campaign donations). No offense to Sabrin, his campaign or his supporters (which includes me, btw), but I think our grassroots community -- the rEVOLution -- latched onto Sabrin's campaign blindly, without looking at the realities enough. I think there was a couple of reasons for this: A. Sabrin was the first RPR endorsed by the man himself, B. Sabrin was running for Senate, not House, and it was thought that getting someone elected to the Senate (a much more powerful position with the ability to filibuster) would be a bigger victory for our movement. That was true, but how much of a possibility there was of that actually happening (very slim) wasn't analyzed enough.

[The Only Woj]

A chorus of LOL to anyone who brings up vote fraud. Fact is, people are dumb. It's that simple. We need to stop trying to convince the dumb people why we're right; instead, we should just confuse them enough into voting for our guy. Most people have no idea who they're voting for, have done no research into the past qualifications nor record of said individual and probably get most of their information from the mainstream media, print or tv.

[Anti Federalist]

Wow, this sucks. I was convinced he really had a chance, only to be blasted out of the water (so far) by another mainstream neo-con shut in. Yet again, I'm having a harder and harder time seeing why we're bothering with this GOP project. One thing's for sure: all across this land the GOP is an infested, ruined asylum filled with drooling imbeciles.

Before the crypto-fascist tactics at the higher level conventions and the jeering from rank and file puppets, I had thought most Republicans were just dumbed down by the media. Now, it seems like it's something more. They want the war. They really, really do. They really are so terrified of foreign terrorists that they are happy to surrender their freedoms to their party. And as long as their taxes are kept low, they don't care to hear a peep breathed about inflation (even if they actually understood half of what someone like Ron Paul says). And yes, even a good many of them want McCain.

The GOP is an enormous cancer ward that deserves to be nuked and splintered if we cannot make any progress by 2010. We don't have time to watch every great Ron Paul Republican get bulldozed in primaries with nothing to show for it but a shrug of the shoulders and a "better luck next time." There may not be a next time as the hell unleashed by clueless Dems and malevolent neo-cons grinds on, leaving us with a little less to work with each election cycle.


QFT x 1000

[frasu]

The results really suck... Not too many people went to vote, almost nobody watched the debates, people just got elected... NJ is a lost cause for now...

[Badger Paul]

Actually, 14% is the best Murray's ever done in a state-wide race. He's run for governor and I think the U.S. Senate before but only as a libertarian.

Some states are going to be harder than others, but the results say that 54% of Republicans are disastified with the party establishment. That's something to work with in the future and I'm sure Murray would agree.

Those wishing to leave New Jersey (and I don't blame you) there's a place called New Hampshire where a group called the Free State Project certainly use your bodies to help them preserve New Hampshire as the last bastion of liberty in this country. Their website is www.freestateproject.com. Please join up!

[amy31416]

It makes me sad thinking about all of the money that was donated to Sabrin that could have been donated to BJ (or a couple of other RPRs candidates for that matter who, along with BJ, have always been more viable candidates with better chances than Murray Sabrin and therefore, I think, were far more deserving of campaign donations). No offense to Sabrin, his campaign or his supporters (which includes me, btw), but I think our grassroots community -- the rEVOLution -- latched onto Sabrin's campaign blindly, without looking at the realities enough. I think there was a couple of reasons for this: A. Sabrin was the first RPR endorsed by the man himself, B. Sabrin was running for Senate, not House, and it was thought that getting someone elected to the Senate (a much more powerful position with the ability to filibuster) would be a bigger victory for our movement. That was true, but how much of a possibility there was of that actually happening (very slim) wasn't analyzed enough.

Absolutely. I'm guilty as charged as well, though I did get the notion that there was no real analysis a while ago. I think another part of it was the timing--after Super Tuesday's miserable results, there was a desire to keep things rolling, which made it easier to ignore Sabrin's actual chances.

I have immense respect for Jim Forsythe for having the clarity and honesty to drop out of his Congressional race when he saw the writing on the wall.

I think BJ Lawson is a great candidate, but what are his real chances in his Democratic area? If you come back and say "his chances are fantastic, there's heaps of interest!" How do I know that's true? How would I know it's true if you said something negative?

I'm just thinking out loud anymore, but if this is to be part of the revolutions future, we have to get it together.

[alaric]

The results really suck... Not too many people went to vote, almost nobody watched the debates, people just got elected... NJ is a lost cause for now...

no offense to murray, but the peoples republik of NJ has been a lost cause for years. I know, i'm stuck in this shithole.

[Matt Collins]

Agreed....if conquering the GOP is climbing a mountain, winning with a third party is landing on Mars.A truer analogy was never spoken

[qh4dotcom]

Murray did the best in Southern NJ - Ocean County was his best showing yet, with 30% of the vote.

If people are that f*cking dumb in this state to re-elect LAUTENBERG (which looks liek is going to happen in November anyway), then you know they have everything coming to them.

I am so pissed off, I can't wait until I move from this god forsaken hell-hole they call a state and I am never coming back...

They will have to pay at the pump during the next 4 years for their voting carelessness

[rockandrollsouls]

no offense to murray, but the peoples republik of NJ has been a lost cause for years. I know, i'm stuck in this shithole.

I'm looking forward to returning my "NJ club membership" in the future :(

[rgavula]

I take some slight consolation in the fact that our 7th District Delegate slate pulled about 18% of the vote, and the At-Large Delegate slate (with Sabrin as an alternate) pulled approximately the same. Both higher than Murray's US Senate total.

This suggests to me that there are still people who are not satisfied with the status quo in the NJ Republican community. I was feeling quite hopeful at the response of the people I spoke with while making phone calls for Murray - they were pretty positive in responding to his positions.

What baffles me is Zimmer winning the primary - I did not speak to or meet a single person who were passionate about Zimmer. I suppose there is just a drone majority who will back whatever stiff the party bosses prop up - there seemed to be stronger support for Andy Unanuae when he was "running" in the spot that was eventually filled by Zimmer.

So similar to McCain - nobody seems to say that they like him, yet everyone is apparently voting for him...

[Knightskye]

Wait, didn't Murray warn about Zimmer trying to steal the election? You think he's gonna sue somebody?

[MMolloy]

Zimmer will get slaughtered in November, waste of time for the NJ GOP, are they idiots?

It's just part of THE SHOW

[MMolloy]

This is a sad event to lose where we thought there was a possibility.
However in reality it should be no surprise.
I am not for third parties. You think this was disappointing then get out there and run 3rd party.
I for one won’t be around if that is what this revolution turns into.

THE ONLY WAY to build a revolution folks is to concentrate at the LOCAL LEVEL, stay in the GOP party, and have good candidates willing to knock on every door (twice) in their district and local volunteers to do the same.

You folks want to try to win congressional seats or senate seats and you have NO EXPERIENCE in campaigns (some of you yes but very few). Sorry but we are all going to be very disappointed. Just as we have been in conventions because of no experience.

However we did gain experience in conventions and caucuses and primaries. BUT NOT IN REAL GENERAL ELECTIONS.

Pick a winnable LOCAL position, work hard win some lose some and take small steps and gain more experience.

Realize that to be successful that this is going to take a long time. Everyone wants something right away. “Oh shit we lost another I’m out a here”

Spend your time and money at the local level leveraging what you have learned so far and using the contacts you have made and ELECT LOCAL CANDIDATES.

We are not going to take over the US Senate and House this year or in the next 4-6 years. Maybe 10 but only if we build a local base.

I hope BJ or Vern can win as they are good candidates and hard workers, however I would rather end the general election nationwide with 20 mayors, 50 city council people, 30 state house reps, 10 state senators, 12 dog catchers, and 5 county commissioners and thousands of then seasoned experienced campaign workers.
That would be a huge success and something to build on.

What he said :cool:

[Knightskye]

I got an e-mail from the Sabrin campaign around 4:30 p.m. yesterday. The subject was:

"Dr. Murray Sabrin wins NJ GOP Primary"

I'm sure people who didn't check their e-mail yesterday - like me, since my internet wasn't working - were disappointed when they looked and saw that, and then found out who actually won the primary.