Know the RNC rules before convention!

[Sandra]

(15)(11) No delegates or alternate delegates shall be selected pursuant to any Republican Party rule of a state or state law which materially changes the manner of selecting delegates or alternate delegates or the date upon which such state party holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention if such changes were adopted or made effective after the first Tuesday in September of the year before the year in which the national convention is to be held. Where it is not possible for a state party to certify the manner and the date upon which it holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention in effect in that state on the date and in the manner provided in paragraph (e) of this rule, the process for holding the presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention shall be conducted in the same manner and held upon the same date as was used for the immediately preceding national convention. If it is not possible to hold a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention upon the same date as was used for the immediately preceding national convention, then delegates or alternate delegates shall be selected by congressional district or state conventions pursuant to paragraph (d) of this rule.

Know rule 15 & 16 before you go to your conventions! Especially this part of rule 15. Your state GOP cannot change the rules last minute in how delegates are selected. In black and white it states so.

[wgadget]

Oh, but they can make a rule to not obey the rule to not change the rules, can't they?

[bojo68]

You people are going to wonder what I've been smoking. But ya have to admit that if we documented all the abuses, and submitted them to RNC, the RNC can only do 2 things, nothing and something. If they decide that it's best for the future of the party to clean house(they'd have to think a little further than they seem to) which would indeed be the best thing they could do for the party's future, we'd get a win, and so would the country.
I know it seems incredibly simplistic, but it's not impossible. Think about it, it's their only real way out of the mess they've made.

[Fyretrohl]

Know rule 15 & 16 before you go to your conventions! Especially this part of rule 15. Your state GOP cannot change the rules last minute in how delegates are selected. In black and white it states so.

Just curious...Can you show what evidence there is that rule 15 has been violated? I have seen changes in rules in QUALIFYING delegates, but, not in actual selection. Did I miss something?

[Sandra]

Just curious...Can you show what evidence there is that rule 15 has been violated? I have seen changes in rules in QUALIFYING delegates, but, not in actual selection. Did I miss something?

Read it again. ALL of it....slowly, let it sink in. Investigate it yourself, your asking to be spoonfed. www.gop.org .

[Sandra]

Get all of your asses to the GOP website and know the rules. Call it when you see it at convention! Don't let some McCain shill tell you it's legal!

http://www.gop.com/About/AboutRead.aspx?Guid=a4cc4fcb-6043-4af2-860a-41ae912a2c42

[Fyretrohl]

I have read it. Yet, I still have not seen evidence of a violation. Where is a copy of the rule that was submitted in September that was changed recently? Where is the changed rule? It is called evidentiary discovery.

If the rule changed did not change how the selection was made, then rule 15 is not violated. So, again, where are the evidentiary facts?

And, this holds true for all states. Understand, I am not trying to stop this process. I am trying to provide the ammunition necessary for it to be successful. Any lawyers or paralegals can attest to this. To prove a violation of rule 15, you must be able to prove the rule that was submitted by the dealine, the rule as it was changed recently, and how that rule is afftected by rule 15. I can almost guarantee you that, with National being a part of this, they have a loophole they are working and we are just going to be screaming to the wind. Time for the grassroots to leg up and provide hard, factual, and admissable evidence versus good stories of disenfranchisement. I am going to be contacting Deb Hopper here in MO to find out if we are affected by this. Each state needs to do the same and, when we have real evidence, then, we can start to convince people. But, as passionate as our speeches and writing can be, it will not do anything for the media or the masses, besides give more ammunition of us being <fill in negative name here>.

[Sandra]

I have read it. Yet, I still have not seen evidence of a violation. Where is a copy of the rule that was submitted in September that was changed recently? Where is the changed rule? It is called evidentiary discovery.

If the rule changed did not change how the selection was made, then rule 15 is not violated. So, again, where are the evidentiary facts?

And, this holds true for all states. Understand, I am not trying to stop this process. I am trying to provide the ammunition necessary for it to be successful. Any lawyers or paralegals can attest to this. To prove a violation of rule 15, you must be able to prove the rule that was submitted by the dealine, the rule as it was changed recently, and how that rule is afftected by rule 15. I can almost guarantee you that, with National being a part of this, they have a loophole they are working and we are just going to be screaming to the wind. Time for the grassroots to leg up and provide hard, factual, and admissable evidence versus good stories of disenfranchisement. I am going to be contacting Deb Hopper here in MO to find out if we are affected by this. Each state needs to do the same and, when we have real evidence, then, we can start to convince people. But, as passionate as our speeches and writing can be, it will not do anything for the media or the masses, besides give more ammunition of us being <fill in negative name here>.

See the challenge documentation on the www.ronpaul08.com website in PDF. It's in the Louisiana section.

[Fyretrohl]

Sandra,
This isn't just about Lousiana or any one state. People are here claiming that a rule was violated. I have seen no evidence to back up the claim. Only moving personal stories that have no real evidentiary basis. So, please, where are the facts? Where is the hard proof?

Look, I love this movement. But, there are a bunch of people who will come on here screaming and whining about this being unfair or that being bad. But, there is very little provided that is actual proof. I also try to spread the message on other sites. But, it is often difficult because many of the claims on here come without hard evidence. So, all I am asking is for people to provide that evidence for their own state. If rule 15 has been supposedly violated, then, it will be necessary to provide evidence of the rule that was changed before and after change. It will also be necessary to provide evidence that rule 15 applies to the rule in question. IE: What lspecifically does rule 15 apply to? Does it only apply to the process of doing a vote? Does it only apply to the fact that a convention is held where people are allowed to raise their hand? Or, does it apply to the method for nominating, debating, vetting, and proceedure for how that will occur? Believe me, I agree with the disgust if these claims are true. But, it is time to PROVE they are true. I will GLADLY champion these across my spheres of the web, if there is real evidence I can provide to Joe Republican that he can understand and that will NOT be shot down as 'Kooky Ron Paul supporters crying cause they lost'. If the GOP just found a good loophole to exploit, then, I say good for them and sad for us. But, a loophole is not a rules violation.

[Sandra]

Sandra,
This isn't just about Lousiana or any one state. People are here claiming that a rule was violated. I have seen no evidence to back up the claim. Only moving personal stories that have no real evidentiary basis. So, please, where are the facts? Where is the hard proof?

Look, I love this movement. But, there are a bunch of people who will come on here screaming and whining about this being unfair or that being bad. But, there is very little provided that is actual proof. I also try to spread the message on other sites. But, it is often difficult because many of the claims on here come without hard evidence. So, all I am asking is for people to provide that evidence for their own state. If rule 15 has been supposedly violated, then, it will be necessary to provide evidence of the rule that was changed before and after change. It will also be necessary to provide evidence that rule 15 applies to the rule in question. IE: What lspecifically does rule 15 apply to? Does it only apply to the process of doing a vote? Does it only apply to the fact that a convention is held where people are allowed to raise their hand? Or, does it apply to the method for nominating, debating, vetting, and proceedure for how that will occur? Believe me, I agree with the disgust if these claims are true. But, it is time to PROVE they are true. I will GLADLY champion these across my spheres of the web, if there is real evidence I can provide to Joe Republican that he can understand and that will NOT be shot down as 'Kooky Ron Paul supporters crying cause they lost'. If the GOP just found a good loophole to exploit, then, I say good for them and sad for us. But, a loophole is not a rules violation.

Gee dude, if you have to be spoonfed, just be happy with "loving the movement" and move on.

[Fyretrohl]

Gee dude, if you have to be spoonfed, just be happy with "loving the movement" and move on.

No, not spoon fed. I have my own state to worry about. But, with the exception of the official challenge in LA which specifically lays out the rules believed to be violated and what basis the challenge is being made, all I have heard out of other states is 'They cheated'. No evidence. No nothing. Now, as a Ron Paul supporter, if I question this, I can tell you what others hear. Others, who could be brought over to the clean up the GOP cause, even if not Ron Paul's cause, hear 'WAH WAH WAH'.

LA appears to be doing it right. I don't know the rules of every state. Honestly, I don't know my rules that closely. So, yes, outside of MO, I would expect someone else to pick up the ball and provide hard evidence and the challenge. An official, well documented challenge IS something that can be trumpted and I can deal with counter arguments then. Right now, I have nothing.