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mediahasyou
06-01-2008, 08:25 PM
Recently, i've been seeing these political spectrums with 0% gov on one side and 100% on the other. Although logicly it makes more sense, this puts libertarianism and all of us towards the end. Making us seem Radical. People don't appeal to Radical ideas. People don't like to think they are outsiders.

This strays from the standard polical right left spectrum. Where libertarians are placed towards the middle. With social views of the left, and economic views of the right.

Do we need a new polical spectrum or do we stick to the standard?

Grimnir Wotansvolk
06-01-2008, 09:07 PM
Well, my assumption is that this the very reason Paul managed to whip up one of the largest libertarian movements in a long time, by constantly stressing that x and y are 100% traditional in regards to American history. Not that believe tradition = right, but that's what the strongest voting blocs seem to believe.

qaxn
06-01-2008, 09:18 PM
designing political spectrums as propoganda tools is low as hell.
they're useless things anyways, political spectrums. divorcing political pedigrees from any context and putting them in opposition by some arbitrary metric of distance is the dumbest thing.

inibo
06-01-2008, 09:34 PM
Recently, i've been seeing these political spectrums with 0% gov on one side and 100% on the other. Although logicly it makes more sense, this puts libertarianism and all of us towards the end. Making us seem Radical. People don't appeal to Radical ideas. People don't like to think they are outsiders.

This strays from the standard polical right left spectrum. Where libertarians are placed towards the middle. With social views of the left, and economic views of the right.

Do we need a new polical spectrum or do we stick to the standard?

I am not a big L libertarian, but I think their two axis chart is about the best method offered so far.

pcosmar
06-01-2008, 09:51 PM
Individualist-----------------------------------------------Collectivist

I know where I stand.

Kludge
06-02-2008, 03:25 AM
I prefer the Nolan chart and it's official questionnaire due to its bias towards libertarianism ;)

Pauls' Revere
06-02-2008, 03:48 AM
Recently, i've been seeing these political spectrums with 0% gov on one side and 100% on the other. Although logicly it makes more sense, this puts libertarianism and all of us towards the end. Making us seem Radical. People don't appeal to Radical ideas. People don't like to think they are outsiders.

This strays from the standard polical right left spectrum. Where libertarians are placed towards the middle. With social views of the left, and economic views of the right.

Do we need a new polical spectrum or do we stick to the standard?

I was at a county fair and a political booth was set up to "determine" alignment or some such folly. It seemed more like an educated fortune teller I guess. Anyway, I answered some questions and each recieved a score according to where you placed a weight or value on each question, scaled 0 -- 5 all was tallied and I scored right of center between Libertarian and Republican. Center of what? Glad you asked. This guy had a diamond put into fourths much like compass points and had Democrat on the left, Republican on the right, Libertarian on the top, and socialist on the bottom. I suspect he placed them strategically but what the hey. Anyway, I thought it was cool that it was more dimensional than black or white, us or them, linear type of thinking or scale. Maybe some reasearch can find such a scale somewhere here in cyberspace. Nonetheless, it was pretty cool and I have never seen one since.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
06-02-2008, 04:31 AM
Well, my assumption is that this the very reason Paul managed to whip up one of the largest libertarian movements in a long time, by constantly stressing that x and y are 100% traditional in regards to American history. Not that believe tradition = right, but that's what the strongest voting blocs seem to believe.

Dr. Ron Paul attracted bipartisan support because he served the people as a clear portal to what is the U.S. Constitution while the Constitution itself narrows down to what is uniquely American not what is politically partisan. I don't think he receives this type of support any more because no effort was made to keep the liberals on board.
Honestly speaking, I just feel those standing behind Dr. Ron Paul's made an error by choosing to call his campaign a "revolution" rather than a "movement." The "revolution" idea was to reestablish the Republican party as the conservative faction thus maintaining the Democratic party as the liberal faction of a functional 2 party system. Of course, when Dr. Ron Paul implemented this policy, he lost that unique bipartisan support he once attracted.
When looking at the history of the United States, American movements ultimately attracted the bipartisan support of both conservatives and liberals. American transcendentalism was one such momement which culminated with Ralph Waldo Emerson better defining the American culture by shining a light on the Declaration of Independence and the American founding fathers.
Campaigns have historically belonged to the tyrants while American movements belonged to the people. So, the real victory isn't winning a campaign but establishing a movement. This movement becomes a success when bipartisan support is acheived. That bipartisan support comes from a focus which is recognized as American by both sides of the political party because it involves narrowing the political focus to the reestablishment and the reconsecration of our constitutional government.
Just what can be expected next on the campaign trail? More pretty women, jet setting, fancy restaurants, staying in nice hotels with limo rides to and from the national debates?
Certainly we can expect the campaign to spin its wheels as long as Dr. Ron Paul continues speaking negatively about Abraham Lincoln. Speaking negatively of the American Gandhi is not going to position any 3rd party any place on the political spectrum other than extreme.

Copies of this essay can be bought for a shiney bent nickel.

mediahasyou
06-02-2008, 03:01 PM
Dr. Ron Paul attracted bipartisan support because he served the people as a clear portal to what is the U.S. Constitution while the Constitution itself narrows down to what is uniquely American not what is politically partisan. I don't think he receives this type of support any more because no effort was made to keep the liberals on board.
Honestly speaking, I just feel those standing behind Dr. Ron Paul's made an error by choosing to call his campaign a "revolution" rather than a "movement." The "revolution" idea was to reestablish the Republican party as the conservative faction thus maintaining the Democratic party as the liberal faction of a functional 2 party system. Of course, when Dr. Ron Paul implemented this policy, he lost that unique bipartisan support he once attracted.
When looking at the history of the United States, American movements ultimately attracted the bipartisan support of both conservatives and liberals. American transcendentalism was one such momement which culminated with Ralph Waldo Emerson better defining the American culture by shining a light on the Declaration of Independence and the American founding fathers.
Campaigns have historically belonged to the tyrants while American movements belonged to the people. So, the real victory isn't winning a campaign but establishing a movement. This movement becomes a success when bipartisan support is acheived. That bipartisan support comes from a focus which is recognized as American by both sides of the political party because it involves narrowing the political focus to the reestablishment and the reconsecration of our constitutional government.
Just what can be expected next on the campaign trail? More pretty women, jet setting, fancy restaurants, staying in nice hotels with limo rides to and from the national debates?


Nice post.



Certainly we can expect the campaign to spin its wheels as long as Dr. Ron Paul continues speaking negatively about Abraham Lincoln. Speaking negatively of the American Gandhi is not going to position any 3rd party any place on the political spectrum other than extreme.

True. I wish he would stop blowing the whistle on that one.

But at the same time. The public is so misinformed about Lincoln. In the public schools he was painted as a hero. Yet, in reality he was far from it. Not too many know what the civil war, confederate flag all really meant.

I agree it was the wrong time to blow the whistle. Yet the whistle needed to be blown.

AmericaFyeah92
06-02-2008, 04:23 PM
Individualist-----------------------------------------------Collectivist

I know where I stand.

That is by far the best scale. It prevents, for example, Fascists and Communists from saying that they are "opposites" of eachother, and places the founders' ideals right where they belong.

It shows that the true opposite of left-collectivism isn't right-collectivism (or vice versa), but liberty.

Uncle Emanuel Watkins
06-02-2008, 08:49 PM
That is by far the best scale. It prevents, for example, Fascists and Communists from saying that they are "opposites" of eachother, and places the founders' ideals right where they belong.

It shows that the true opposite of left-collectivism isn't right-collectivism (or vice versa), but liberty.

The political spectrum was created by Aristotle to isolate a "moderate" Golden Mean so that Greeks could behave responsibly by avoiding political extremism. Seems the liberal ideas of Plato were leaking out of the classroom into Athenian society while they involved such notions as freeing the slaves and allowing women to vote.

While the political spectrum is used by our media today to isolate the American public as either of the liberal persuasion or of the conservative, we tend to be moderate in the United States because of the 2 party system. In comparison, the primitive systems over in the Eastern Hemisphere tend to create populations of political extremism because most of their systems involve more than 2 political parties.

The naive media in the United States creates the illusion of political volatility the way it isolates certain Democratic blue states and others as Republican red ones. What is not immediately apparent in these generalizations is how most states have almost an equal percentage of both liberal and conservative representation.

The paradox involved with the development of the moderate political system in the United States is how it wasn't created by the use of a political science. A party didn't have to manipulate people along the political spectrum to ultimately bring them to "become" citizens as Marxists attempt to do.

Rather than manipulate people to citizenship as Marxism attempts to do, Americans were established as "being" citizens by the founding fathers upon a foundation of self evident and inalienable truths. These truths were established not by a political science but by the science of natural law.

FindLiberty
06-02-2008, 08:56 PM
The ONE, the ONLY... step right up and see where you fall...

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

(I win the big L prize - 100% x 100%)

P.S. Leaping Lincoln was a uber-tyrant, our first, worst POTUS

haigh
06-02-2008, 09:00 PM
I was at a county fair and a political booth was set up to "determine" alignment or some such folly. It seemed more like an educated fortune teller I guess. Anyway, I answered some questions and each recieved a score according to where you placed a weight or value on each question, scaled 0 -- 5 all was tallied and I scored right of center between Libertarian and Republican. Center of what? Glad you asked. This guy had a diamond put into fourths much like compass points and had Democrat on the left, Republican on the right, Libertarian on the top, and socialist on the bottom. I suspect he placed them strategically but what the hey. Anyway, I thought it was cool that it was more dimensional than black or white, us or them, linear type of thinking or scale. Maybe some reasearch can find such a scale somewhere here in cyberspace. Nonetheless, it was pretty cool and I have never seen one since.

Here's one popular version of a political spectrum analysis tool.

http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html

It's often useful for kick starting a political discussion with a stranger.