View Full Version : Why I support Bob Barr here's why - NYC Meetup founder
aknappjr
05-31-2008, 11:25 PM
Lifelong Republican. Started the NYC Ron Paul meetup Group (#50) (now the 2nd biggest) . We raised over $100,000 for Ron Paul and had over 180 outreach-events. I campaigned besides Dr. Paul in Des Moines at the Straw Poll, and New Hampshire 4 weekends. I maxed out.
I (also) support Bob Barr, and here's why:
1. He's the best chance to spread the Freedom Message in possible TV debates coming up - think Ross Perot 1992. He will need 10-15% in the polls before the MSM lets him in - a workable number if we get active now.
2. He's similar to Dr. Paul on most issues - and may have (even) more mainstream appeal, and I've seen him speak and he comes off polished and quick on his feet.
3. He has that third-party appeal that Dr. Paul decided not to go for (which would have been very interesting).
4. Its a natural continuation of the Paul campaign (if) when it ends at the Republican National Convention in September. But we need to start now.
5. This is a very important opportunity for the LP and the Freedom Movement in general.
6. Bob Barr is an ally and good friend of Ron Paul. Ron Paul said so himself. (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448) An ally of Ron Paul's is an ally of mine.
He's on the Colbert Report this Wednesday. Watch it - if you like what you hear, help spread the Freedom message. BTW 1 year ago Ron Paul was on the show, and we greet him there.
I started the Greater Los Angeles Bob Barr Meetup group (moving there soon), and I encourage you to do the same. The movement is all about spreading the messsage, and Barr (despite his mistakes), can do that. Lets spread the message!
Thank you for your consideration,
Avery J. Knapp Jr., M.D.
http://bobbarr.meetup.com/25/
brandon
05-31-2008, 11:35 PM
Every time I read about a dedicated hard working member of the RP Revolution being suckered into the Barr/WAR scam, I shed a tear. I really thought our movement had something good going for the last year.
RPTXState
05-31-2008, 11:38 PM
I'll say this again- What part of "Ron Paul Grassroots Central" does Bob Barr fit in?
brandon
05-31-2008, 11:38 PM
By the way, the only one of your reasons that actually means anything is number 3. And his positions have only been similar to Pauls for the last year. Before that he was a staunch enemy of freedom. The rest of your reasons are as pathetic as an Obama supporter saying he supports Obama because "Obama wants change"
I used to think Paul supporters were smart. Now we have meetup leaders saying the reason they support a candidate is because he will be on the Colbert Report. Jesus christ, what happened to our revolution?
aknappjr
05-31-2008, 11:53 PM
Barr takes a lot of justifiable hits for voting for
the Patriot Act, which he has been fighting to
overturn practically from the moment it passed. But
here's the really interesting thing -- Ron Paul ASKED
Bob Barr to to vote for the Patriot Act in the
Judiciary Committee, because of a parliamentary rule
that only those who voted for a bill can be on the
conference committee that reconciles the house and
senate versions. By being on the conference committee,
Barr was able to insist on some of the worst parts
being stripped out and forced the sunset provision.
See:
http://www.spectator.org/dsp_article.asp?art_id=13262
- Bob Barr gave Ron Paul's introduction at this year's
CPAC convention
- In 1999, Ron Paul and Bob Barr (along with a few
other congressman) sued President Clinton to stop the
bombing in Kosovo.
- Bob Barr is a board member of the NRA. McCain has a
lifetime F rating from the NRA.
- I'm told Bob Barr will attend Ron Paul's March on Washington.
Did Barr make mistakes in the past? Yes. So did Ron Paul (as he would be happy to admit). Has he been turning from a libertarian-minded conservative into a full-blooded Ron Paul libertarian? Yes, I hope and think so. Is he perfect? No - politics is not our salvation - education is. Bob Barr can educate millions with our political support.
Bob Barr is an ally and good friend of Ron Paul. Ron Paul said so himself. (http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448)
WRellim
05-31-2008, 11:59 PM
Lifelong Republican. Started the NYC Ron Paul meetup Group (#50) (now the 2nd biggest) . We raised over $100,000 for Ron Paul and had over 180 outreach-events. I campaigned besides Dr. Paul in Des Moines at the Straw Poll, and New Hampshire 4 weekends. I maxed out.
I (also) support Bob Barr, and here's why:
1. He's the best chance to spread the Freedom Message in possible TV debates coming up - think Ross Perot 1992. He will need 10-15% in the polls before the MSM lets him in - a workable number if we get active now.
[IN OTHER WORDS -- you SUBJECTIVELY believe that Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure.]
2. He's similar to Dr. Paul on most issues - and may have (even) more mainstream appeal, and I've seen him speak and he comes off polished and quick on his feet.
[IN OTHER WORDS -- you SUBJECTIVELY believe that Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure.]
3. He has that third-party appeal that Dr. Paul decided not to go for (which would have been very interesting).
[IN OTHER WORDS -- you SUBJECTIVELY believe that Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure.]
4. Its a natural continuation of the Paul campaign (if) when it ends at the Republican National Convention in September. But we need to start now.
[IN OTHER WORDS -- you SUBJECTIVELY believe that Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure.]
5. This is a very important opportunity for the LP and the Freedom Movement in general.
[IN OTHER WORDS -- you SUBJECTIVELY believe that Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure.]
6. He's on the Colbert Report this Wednesday. Watch it - if you like what you hear, help spread the Freedom message. 1 year ago Ron Paul was on the show.
[IN OTHER WORDS -- you SUBJECTIVELY believe that Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure.]
I started the Greater Los Angeles Bob Barr Meetup group (moving there soon), and I encourage you to do the same. Lets spread the message!
Thank you for your consideration,
Avery J. Knapp Jr., M.D.
http://bobbarr.meetup.com/25/
Hmmm... all of those "reasons" seem to boil down to the same thing.
YOU, personally, SUBJECTIVELY believe (think, wish, dream?) that Bob Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure... and that he will actually use it to promote the "Ron Paul" agenda...
A) I think you are wrong -- Bob Barr is currently getting a tiny little bit of media exposure because he did something the press thinks is "wacky" -- that is a well-known Neo-Con and "statist" has infiltrated and essentially taken over the "Libertarian" party... the media is just puzzled and ...like seeing someone do something EQUALLY wacky (say put all of their furniture on the lawn & set it on fire) they decided to give it a little air time for the sake of the humor aspect of it all. Plus, there's a boring "lull" in the other campaigns... slow news days.
B) You are deluding yourself with what you WANT to believe is Bob Barr's "agenda" and goals -- sure he "wrapped" himself in Libertarian-lingo to obtain the nomination -- but now that he HAS that and virtually OWNS the party, he will promote his OWN agenda, which is SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT from Ron Paul's and from the movement's. (This is already showing up in his interviews, his "cagey" non-answers to questions, etc.)
You ARE being played by a whole TEAM of master manipulators.
WRellim
P.S. Oh, I could list the CV's of the meetups I've run, etc... but what does that REALLY matter? It would just be an "appeal to authority" and therefore a logical fallacy as a basis for argument. And listing your "MD" after your name is actually worse, as you are speaking ex cathedra on areas where your degree and schooling are completely irrelevant.
OptionsTrader
06-01-2008, 12:03 AM
Thumbs up to WR.
brandon
06-01-2008, 12:10 AM
Well said WR
revolutionary8
06-01-2008, 12:12 AM
WR keeps me from puking on my own shoes then using federal reserve notes to wipe up the mess.
AJ Antimony
06-01-2008, 12:12 AM
Every time I read about a dedicated hard working member of the RP Revolution being suckered into the Barr/WAR scam, I shed a tear. I really thought our movement had something good going for the last year.
Dude... BOB BARR WILL NOT COME CLOSE TO WINNING THE PRESIDENCY so why is anyone shitting their pants over supporting him?
Just like RON PAUL, this is NOT about the man... it's about the MESSAGE.
I think supporting Barr is the best thing to do following the RNC because he provides the best way to spread the message. The thread maker is right, Barr is already starting the polls at 6%! If we can throw Paul's 1,000,000 votes behind that and then some, we may very well hit 10% which could put Barr in the debates.
Remember what the debates did for Ron Paul? A similar thing will happen for Barr. And just like Paul, Barr in the debates will not lead to a victory so it doesn't matter if you like the LP candidate or not.
Point is, at the end of the day, the Libertarian Party will be a much stronger party and so many more people will be at least SOMEWHAT awoken by the shit going on in this country. Think about it.
Luft97
06-01-2008, 12:15 AM
Aknnapp,
You won't find a lot of love for Bob Barr here for some reason. I understand where you are coming from. I do like Barr myself. A lot of people here think he is a NWO Shill. But by god they have no problems carrying the Alex Jones banner into war.
I hope that you are able to convince some people to get behind Barr on this. Good Luck.
AJ Antimony
06-01-2008, 12:16 AM
You ARE being played by a whole TEAM of master manipulators.
Does that include Ron Paul?
brandon
06-01-2008, 12:16 AM
If we can throw Paul's 1,000,000 votes behind that and then some, we may very well hit 10% which could put Barr in the debates.
Remember what the
Barr will never get Pauls 1 million votes behind him. He would be lucky if he got 100,000 of Pauls votes. A candidate like Ruwart would have gotten the full million.
The only chance Barr has at running a viable campaign is for him to talk about "islamofacists and winning the WOT" And that is exactly what he will do. Just wait and see.....
brandon
06-01-2008, 12:17 AM
Does that include Ron Paul?
uhh no. Why would that include Ron Paul? What has Paul ever done to sugest he is a manipulator?
WRellim
06-01-2008, 12:23 AM
Does that include Ron Paul?
Richard Viguerie, Russ Verney, Bob Barr, Wayne Alan Root.
Go fetch David Nolan's take:
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/eg/nolan-vig.html
AND
http://www.reason.com/news/show/126676.html
BTW, just because Ron Paul is "nice" and says that he has had "cordial" conversations with Barr does NOT equal an endorsement from him... after all Ron is "nice" to (and tries his best to "speak well" of just about everyone), and is nearly always "cordial" in his conversations... one could easily imagine him saying the same things about a phone conversation with John McCain or Hillary Clinton. Ergo, it does NOT mean he endorses Barr. (Y'all just want to THINK that it does.)
aknappjr
06-01-2008, 12:31 AM
Hmmm... all of those "reasons" seem to boil down to the same thing.
YOU, personally, SUBJECTIVELY believe (think, wish, dream?) that Bob Barr will get LOTS of *favorable* media exposure... and that he will actually use it to promote the "Ron Paul" agenda...
A) I think you are wrong -- Bob Barr is currently getting a tiny little bit of media exposure because he did something the press thinks is "wacky" -- that is a well-known Neo-Con and "statist" has infiltrated and essentially taken over the "Libertarian" party... the media is just puzzled and ...like seeing someone do something EQUALLY wacky (say put all of their furniture on the lawn & set it on fire) they decided to give it a little air time for the sake of the humor aspect of it all. Plus, there's a boring "lull" in the other campaigns... slow news days.
B) You are deluding yourself with what you WANT to believe is Bob Barr's "agenda" and goals -- sure he "wrapped" himself in Libertarian-lingo to obtain the nomination -- but now that he HAS that and virtually OWNS the party, he will promote his OWN agenda, which is SIGNIFICANTLY DIFFERENT from Ron Paul's and from the movement's. (This is already showing up in his interviews, his "cagey" non-answers to questions, etc.)
You ARE being played by a whole TEAM of master manipulators.
WRellim
P.S. Oh, I could list the CV's of the meetups I've run, etc... but what does that REALLY matter? It would just be an "appeal to authority" and therefore a logical fallacy as a basis for argument. And listing your "MD" after your name is actually worse, as you are speaking ex cathedra on areas where your
degree and schooling are completely irrelevant.
You guys are tough. But that's good - vigorous debates are healthy (I've had a few in staunchly advocating Paul).
The main reason I supported Dr. Paul was that I (subjectively) thought he would be able to spread the message. And I (subjectively) think I was right. And now Barr will also. Lets not cut off or attack our allies - lets show them where they're wrong if they are. The movement needs all the allies it can get. I would encourage you to try to keep an open mind as see what Barr has to say. I'm not arguing the guy is perfect - just that he can spread the message.
Bob Barr is an ally and good friend of Ron Paul. Ron Paul said so himself: http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448
aknappjr
06-01-2008, 12:41 AM
Richard Viguerie, Russ Verney, Bob Barr, Wayne Alan Root.
Go fetch David Nolan's take:
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/eg/nolan-vig.html
AND
http://www.reason.com/news/show/126676.html
BTW, just because Ron Paul is "nice" and says that he has had "cordial" conversations with Barr does NOT equal an endorsement from him... after all Ron is "nice" to (and tries his best to "speak well" of just about everyone), and is nearly always "cordial" in his conversations... one could easily imagine him saying the same things about a phone conversation with John McCain or Hillary Clinton. Ergo, it does NOT mean he endorses Barr. (Y'all just want to THINK that it does.)
Ron Paul on Bob Barr: "We're allies, he's a good friend." http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448
Supposedly Barr has already gotten more national press attention than the LP's 2004 candidate . I would think that even if its not favorable, its still press. Much of the press Paul received and continue to is not favorable, but it did and does spread the message.
You guys are ignorant if you think everything is going in the shitter cause he supports someone else other than Ron Paul.
"OH! BUT HE DID THIS THIS THIS AND THIS!"
please.
Richard Viguerie, Russ Verney, Bob Barr, Wayne Alan Root.
Go fetch David Nolan's take:
http://fairuse.100webcustomers.com/eg/nolan-vig.html
AND
http://www.reason.com/news/show/126676.html
BTW, just because Ron Paul is "nice" and says that he has had "cordial" conversations with Barr does NOT equal an endorsement from him... after all Ron is "nice" to (and tries his best to "speak well" of just about everyone), and is nearly always "cordial" in his conversations... one could easily imagine him saying the same things about a phone conversation with John McCain or Hillary Clinton. Ergo, it does NOT mean he endorses Barr. (Y'all just want to THINK that it does.)
And you want to THINK Ron Paul hates Bob Barr (and for some of you, the 9/11 truth movement).
How about we just look at their friendship and partnership in Congress as what it is, friendly allies. Saying someone is an ally, which Paul did to Barr, is not something he says to everyone. It doesn't mean endorse, cause there are 2 good candidates on the ballot this fall (Baldwin and Barr). Even then, Paul knows some of his people are Green Party peeps or Obama peeps or w/e, he doesn't want to tell them who to vote for.
WRellim
06-01-2008, 01:50 AM
Ron Paul on Bob Barr: "We're allies, he's a good friend." http://www.newsweek.com/id/139448
Supposedly Barr has already gotten more national press attention than the LP's 2004 candidate . I would think that even if its not favorable, its still press. Much of the press Paul received and continue to is not favorable, but it did and does spread the message.
Ron Paul has a very poor track record as far as judging people on their CHARACTER. (Witness the racist newsletter writer, Eric Dondero, George W. Bush, the current team managing the campaign, etc.)
He wants to think the "best" of people, and is overall a non-skeptic.
This means that Mr. Paul himself has been "burned" many times -- indeed many more times than he is probably willing to admit even to himself (for example, the current campaign management team definitely made major errors in running the campaign, allocating expenses, etc. -- yet there was no change by Dr. Paul in management, all was forgiven, everyone remained in their positions, etc.)
In short, basing your decision to support someone on the fact that Ron Paul treats them in a "cordial" fashion, or is on "friendly terms" with them is just not being very wise.
Ron Paul is a nice guy -- too nice for his own (and other people's) good.
WRellim
06-01-2008, 01:58 AM
You guys are ignorant if you think everything is going in the shitter cause he supports someone else other than Ron Paul.
"OH! BUT HE DID THIS THIS THIS AND THIS!"
please.
Actually, what we are saying is that Bob Barr is a manipulative, ambitious, unprincipled and opportunistic politican, that he has teamed up with a group of people (Viguerie, Verney, et al) who are also WELL KNOWN as extremely ambitious, divisive, manipulative, and VERY unprincipled, and you are trying to tie the whole movement to this groups' leadership.
But you're being charmed by (yet another) gang of political snakes, and in the end, you are going to get BURNED, big time.
FireofLiberty
06-01-2008, 04:12 AM
Tell Barr to get a new running mate and we'll talk ;-)
itshappening
06-01-2008, 05:54 AM
Avery is right! it should be seen as a continuation, he will be after all on the ballot in 45+ states in November
There is an alternative and this is it. it's NOT perfect but it's worth supporting this campaign to spread the message.
Barr is saying and doing the right things from what ive seen but people are hung up about his past, i think they need to grow up and recognize that there is somebody we can support
Dude... BOB BARR WILL NOT COME CLOSE TO WINNING THE PRESIDENCY so why is anyone shitting their pants over supporting him?
Just like RON PAUL, this is NOT about the man... it's about the MESSAGE.
I think supporting Barr is the best thing to do following the RNC because he provides the best way to spread the message. The thread maker is right, Barr is already starting the polls at 6%! If we can throw Paul's 1,000,000 votes behind that and then some, we may very well hit 10% which could put Barr in the debates.
Remember what the debates did for Ron Paul? A similar thing will happen for Barr. And just like Paul, Barr in the debates will not lead to a victory so it doesn't matter if you like the LP candidate or not.
Point is, at the end of the day, the Libertarian Party will be a much stronger party and so many more people will be at least SOMEWHAT awoken by the shit going on in this country. Think about it.
+1776. These guys are too blind to see that it's the spread of the message that matters in the long-run, not who's our current standard-bearer. Ron Paul is obviously still the best example of a liberty-minded candidate, but that doesn't mean we can't support others who further the message.
mrchubbs
06-01-2008, 11:12 AM
Avery is dead right. He speaks for the same reasons I am supporting Barr.
It seems many of the Barr detractors on here like to cling to conspiracy rather than help the positive Ron Paul liberty message spread to the the furthest reach possible.
And when I say conspiracy I mean those that think the Barr campaign did some kind of takeover of the LP for the purpose of dividing the RP movement and hurting Paul's chances at restoring the GOP to it's Old Right roots of liberty.
"It's about the message, not the man." -Ron Paul
"It's about the message, not the Party." - Me
I welcome all liberty message spreaders. Barr happens to be the one with the most reach. That is the most important thing here.
I believe the following Ron Paul supporters should be supporting Barr with enthusiam:
1 - Those that believe Ron Paul was black balled from the media.
2 - Those that believe in the message, not just the man.
3 - Those that argued, "those racist newsletters were written so many years ago, what does that matter now? He denounced them. He regrets them being published under his name."
I suggest taking a lesson from Thomas Knapp (purist Ruwart supporter) on the whole thing:
The Libertarian Party nominated Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root for president and vice-president on Sunday. A case of redass for us radicals? Well, yeah -- we came to Denver looking for a fight, and we lost. The bruises are still fresh, but the fact remains that the nomination was legit. It was by the book.
And...
It's time to get with the goddamn team, folks. I guarantee you that Bob Barr and Wayne Allyn Root are going to lend a much more attentive ear to the lady who writes a $2300 check or the guy who volunteers to clean the bathroom at the campaign HQ than to the allegedly yellow-dog Libertarian who's still ragging on them after they've convinced a majority of LP convention delegates to vote for them.
How do we "make them live up to the principles they claim to represent?" By helping them do so.
Maybe our advice will fall on deaf ears, but I don't think so. I've been corresponding with Wayne Root ever since before he declared his candidacy, and every time I've offered him positive, sincere advice he's jumped on it. Every. Time.
I doubt I'm the only person that's true of. I mean, c'mon ... nobody slammed Root the way I did pre-nomination. If he'll listen to me, he'll listen to you, too. He'll just listen better if you're working with him instead of against him. My experience is that he wants to learn, that he's willing to listen. I had genuine doubts about his sincerity, but now that he's our VP nominee I've declared tabula rasa -- clean slate -- on that and will trust him until and unless he gives me reason not to.
From:
http://knappster.blogspot.com/2008/05/living-it-up.html
Enjoy.
OptionsTrader
06-01-2008, 11:21 AM
Tell Barr to get a new running mate and we'll talk ;-)
That and have have him step down himself because his neocon voting record makes him unsupportable as well.
Barr voted for the Patriot Act (twice) (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=2001_record&docid=cr12oc01-115)
Barr voted for the Iraq war, and is now an accessory to killing over 1 million people (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll454.xml)
Barr voted for no child left behind (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2001-145)
Barr voted for the Iraq liberation act of 1998 (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h1998-482)
Barr voted for the $159 billion medicare prescription drug bill (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2000-357)
Barr voted for the Anti-Terrorism Act giving govt broadened surveillance powers (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2001-390)
Barr voted to create the Department of Homeland Security (http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2002/roll475.xml)
torchbearer
06-01-2008, 11:54 AM
The people bashing barr deserve doubly what they are going to get in this country as this movement dies from the in-fighting.
Congrats, you shot the wrong soldier.
princessredtights
06-01-2008, 12:45 PM
I have chosen to vote for Chuck Baldwin (unless God has mercy on us and gives us RP at the convention)
HenryKnoxFineBooks
06-01-2008, 02:22 PM
Barr will never get Pauls 1 million votes behind him. He would be lucky if he got 100,000 of Pauls votes. A candidate like Ruwart would have gotten the full million.
The only chance Barr has at running a viable campaign is for him to talk about "islamofacists and winning the WOT" And that is exactly what he will do. Just wait and see.....
I cant believe that you seriously think this is true.
HenryKnoxFineBooks
06-01-2008, 02:23 PM
The people bashing barr deserve doubly what they are going to get in this country as this movement dies from the in-fighting.
Congrats, you shot the wrong soldier.
+1
WRellim
06-01-2008, 02:41 PM
The people bashing barr deserve doubly what they are going to get in this country as this movement dies from the in-fighting.
Congrats, you shot the wrong soldier.
I think you mean "you shot the wrong CIA agent."
Barr was never a soldier.
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