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View Full Version : Facebook review of Manifesto. Very infuriating!




spudea
05-31-2008, 09:58 PM
I have a chase mastercard and they have a facebook rewards group called Chase +1. Well I searched their store and I can get the Revolution for 10 karma points. I searched high and low for a way to add my review or respond in some way, but there isn't a way. In their store, underneath the book is a "customer review" that goes as follows:


The fact that our government has strayed so far from what was originally intended and moreover, that we citizens have let it happen and not question it is a hard pill to swallow, but needs to be acknowledged nonetheless. Ron Paul does an amazing job of outlining some basic principles our founding fathers built this nation on and shows exactly how much we've regressed. Very empowering read... question is what do you do after you've read it.

Brings up a lot of good information that should be brought up and a lot more often!

I consider myself a libertarian and I was very excited to read Dr. Ron Paul's book. The majority of the book is concerned with three basic issues.

1. The Constitution
2. Foreign Policy
3. Monetary Policy

The book starts out with the issue of Foreign Policy and advocates the United States stay out of other countries affairs. This includes staying out of their affairs militarily and also with foreign aid, but he does NOT advocate becoming isolationist. In fact, he makes very strong arguments for free trade and for diplomacy. I agree with his overall point, but he leaves a lot of questions unanswered. What if a country starts slaughtering hundreds of thousands of Jews or Tutsi? What if a powerful country unjustly attacks a weaker country? What if the rest of the world refuses to act? Dr. Paul did not provide strong (or any) answers to these types of questions.

The section of the book concerning the Constitution was excellent. However, Dr. Paul's solution as to how to restore the Constitution's original meaning, intent, and interpretation is rather weak. Although, I don't know that there are good answers.

The section on Monetary Policy was by far the weakest part of the book. As with all the other issues covered in the book, Dr. Paul is extremely good at describing the problem. His explanation of the problems inherent in the FED is very good. However, Dr. Paul advocates readopting the gold standard. Unfortunately, the gold standard has the opposite problem of our current system, the money supply shrinks in relation to a growing economy. This causes deflation, which is just as bad or worse than inflation. Would you build houses or invest in a business if it is likely that their value will decrease? The Great Depression was caused by spiraling deflation not inflation. Dr. Paul's book doesn't even address this common problem that occurs with the gold standard.There are other common problems with the gold standard as well, and Dr. Paul's book addresses none of them.

For the most part, this was a good book and I enjoyed reading it. However, it wasn't the great book I hoped it would be.

Item #1: "What if a country does something we don't like?"

The truthful case is presented to the people (remember goverment of, by, and for the people?) and through their representatives, CONGRESS shall vote and declare war. The president does not have the power or authority to attack other nations.

Item #2: "How to restore the rule of law?"

It starts with the people, it starts with this revolution. Elect statesmen, not politictians. A constitutional president can enforce the constitution, and abolish all that is unconstitutional.

Item #3: "Gold standard is deflationary and caused the great depression..."

Seriously? Go back and research the massive monetary inflation and credit expansion following WWI. THAT IS THE CAUSE. The great depression following the crash is the NECESSARY DEFLATIONARY CORRECTION of the business cycle cause by monetary manipulation! What? Are you advocating inflation could have stopped the depression? ARE YOU NUTS! If we had resorted to inflation in the 30's, we would be stuck 3rd world style with $1,000,000 loafs of bread. Restoring a gold standard would not be deflationary. The Monetary base would grow in line with the growth of the economy. I would much rather invest in a business that has STABLE value and the value increases based on real wealth. Oh.. and the fact that "ONLY GOLD AND SILVER SHALL BE LEGAL TENDER" so says the rule of law, the United States Constitution. I don't understand the contradictions and hypocrisy of this guy...

newyearsrevolution08
06-01-2008, 12:04 PM
It is irritating when people just have no clue BUT that is why there are people like you making sure to help get things straight. All they can do right now is TRY and disprove what Dr. Paul wrote BUT if it went to a real debate at the national level that allowed Dr. Paul to actually speak on it then the nation would wake up BUT what works best for them is to disprove in the media and online without any backing to what their findings are and the sad thing is most people take anything they read or watch at face value.

mediahasyou
06-01-2008, 06:44 PM
"Would you build houses or invest in a business if it is likely that their value will decrease?"

ahaha that's how everything in our economy works. You buy a car, it loses value. You buy a apple, it loses value. It's because this world is coming up with bigger and better things.

As for the reason you invest and risk it losing value. You invest in a business because of the potential profits.

LibertyOfOne
08-07-2008, 04:13 AM
The problem with deflation and gold is that it can lead to hording due to it's ever increasing value. When there is not enough money to flow to assist in the exchange of goods and services there is a problem. Money can be just about anything. It is a medium of exchange for one value for another. Now just because a currency is fiat, does not necessarily mean it's bad. The problem with commodity tied currency is as the economy expands there is less money to flow around to represent all the wealth. Now with a fiat currency the amount in circulation can be adjusted to the amount of growth or loss of growth that way there can be enough to easily facilitate trade. Fiat has it's own drawbacks which are obvious to the typical reader.

With that noted a silver based system would make far more sense given how much more plentiful it is compared to gold. Even better would be a base that includes aluminum, copper, and other metals to minimize market fluctuations in the supply. The problem with gold is the scarcity. In the past people of great wealth could manipulate the market by hording large sums of gold.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 05:12 AM
The problem with deflation and gold is that it can lead to hording due to it's ever increasing value.

W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g.

Check your premise. Because it's not a problem.

Do I really have to keep enlightening people? From now on I'm just going to link to stuff...

What has the Government Done to our Money? - By Murry Rothbard
II. Money in a Free Society - 9. The Problem of "Hoarding" (http://mises.org/money/2s9.asp)

Now go read it.

Bruno
08-07-2008, 06:42 AM
W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g.

Check your premise. Because it's not a problem.

Do I really have to keep enlightening people? From now on I'm just going to link to stuff...

What has the Government Done to our Money? - By Murry Rothbard
II. Money in a Free Society - 9. The Problem of "Hoarding" (http://mises.org/money/2s9.asp)

Now go read it.

You beat me to it. This book discusses hoarding very well.

LibertyOfOne
08-07-2008, 07:16 PM
W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g, W-r-o-n-g.

Check your premise. Because it's not a problem.

Do I really have to keep enlightening people? From now on I'm just going to link to stuff...

What has the Government Done to our Money? - By Murry Rothbard
II. Money in a Free Society - 9. The Problem of "Hoarding" (http://mises.org/money/2s9.asp)

Now go read it.

Roth is wrong because his basic premise assumes people are rational when in many cases when it comes to economic decisions it is not the case. Sure that might work if everyone was making choices with a logical rule set, but the real world does not work that way as history shows. The irrationality of sticky wages puts a damper on the whole thing. When one hordes as does another. What next trade in grains of gold because the availability of gold to be a means of wealth transfer has been greatly diminished? What about all those notes you will have to keep reprinting to represent the most basic unit of monetary exchange? Surely no one would want to buy bread with a 1/100 gram note if the cost is now 1/1000th of a gram due to scarcity. Gold is almost static. When new wealth is created as always the case has been. There will be less gold to represent that wealth. That leads to deflation which is just as bad as inflation.

yongrel
08-07-2008, 07:18 PM
Dood, it's facebook.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 07:54 PM
Roth is wrong because his basic premise assumes people are rational when in many cases when it comes to economic decisions it is not the case. Sure that might work if everyone was making choices with a logical rule set, but the real world does not work that way as history shows. The irrationality of sticky wages puts a damper on the whole thing. When one hordes as does another. What next trade in grains of gold because the availability of gold to be a means of wealth transfer has been greatly diminished? What about all those notes you will have to keep reprinting to represent the most basic unit of monetary exchange? Surely no one would want to buy bread with a 1/100 gram note if the cost is now 1/1000th of a gram due to scarcity. Gold is almost static. When new wealth is created as always the case has been. There will be less gold to represent that wealth. That leads to deflation which is just as bad as inflation.

Ok... you've got a LONG way to go mate. Enjoy your abyss of ignorance if you choose to do nothing about it.

LibertyofOne is wrong because his basic premise is that it matters whether people make rational decisions of not. The free market allows for irrationality, those that makes stupid decisions lose out, BUSINESSES that make bad irrational choices FAIL. Prices adjust according to the overall supply of gold... it doesn't affect wealth transfer in the slightest.

Why the f--k are you talking about notes? Gold is not almost static. Even if it was, the gold will be increased in its value. Deflation is not bad. Deflation does NOT mean recession or depression; you can have deflation in a BOOM.

You lack an understanding of the fundamental basics of economics. Supply & Demand. I suggest you start from the top, enjoy your studies... you ignorance is pretty profound; you just don't realise it.. which I guess is the malady of the ignorant.

LibertyOfOne
08-07-2008, 09:24 PM
Ok... you've got a LONG way to go mate. Enjoy your abyss of ignorance if you choose to do nothing about it.

LibertyofOne is wrong because his basic premise is that it matters whether people make rational decisions of not. The free market allows for irrationality, those that makes stupid decisions lose out, BUSINESSES that make bad irrational choices FAIL. Prices adjust according to the overall supply of gold... it doesn't affect wealth transfer in the slightest.

Why the f--k are you talking about notes? Gold is not almost static. Even if it was, the gold will be increased in its value. Deflation is not bad. Deflation does NOT mean recession or depression; you can have deflation in a BOOM.

You lack an understanding of the fundamental basics of economics. Supply & Demand. I suggest you start from the top, enjoy your studies... you ignorance is pretty profound; you just don't realise it.. which I guess is the malady of the ignorant.

Gold based currency no? What else would it be? No one would want to carry heavy metals around. This is the 21st century. There is a finite supply of gold and that can't be disputed. Almost static refers to newly mined gold that has entered the supply. Wealth is ever expansive due to the growth of technology, new ideas, etc. By definition a gold based currency would be deflationary.

You don't have to go far to see how deflation can be destructive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation

More than enough information there. It does not paint such a pretty picture as you would want us to believe. For those that whine about Wikipedia it has less errors on average than the best of encyclopedias.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 09:50 PM
Gold based currency no? What else would it be? No one would want to carry heavy metals around. This is the 21st century. There is a finite supply of gold and that can't be disputed. Almost static refers to newly mined gold that has entered the supply. Wealth is ever expansive due to the growth of technology, new ideas, etc. By definition a gold based currency would be deflationary.

II. Money in a Free Society 12. Money Warehouses (http://mises.org/money/2s12.asp)
By Murry Rothbard

As I said earlier, I'm done educating... Or maybe I should start charging fees?


You don't have to go far to see how deflation can be destructive.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deflation
More than enough information there. It does not paint such a pretty picture as you would want us to believe. For those that whine about Wikipedia it has less errors on average than the best of encyclopedias.

The link's intro confirms most of what I said. What else would you have me read? The bit about the Depression and deflationary spiral is retarded.


http://mises.org/store/oldimages/americagd.jpg
America's Great Depression (http://mises.org/rothbard/agd/contents.asp)
By Murray N. Rothbard

LibertyOfOne
08-07-2008, 10:06 PM
II. Money in a Free Society 12. Money Warehouses (http://mises.org/money/2s12.asp)
By Murry Rothbard

As I said earlier, I'm done educating... Or maybe I should start charging fees?



The link's intro confirms most of what I said. What else would you have me read? The bit about the Depression and deflationary spiral is retarded.


http://mises.org/store/oldimages/americagd.jpg
America's Great Depression (http://mises.org/rothbard/agd/contents.asp)
By Murray N. Rothbard


We are talking about two totally different things.

"Suppose, then, that the free market has established gold as money (forgetting again about silver for the sake of simplicity)."

Government mandated gold standard is something totally different. In a free market you have the choice of different currencies.

Conza88
08-07-2008, 10:27 PM
We are talking about two totally different things.

Yeah, you created the different thing in your last post. You've been drawn further and further away from the post that origionally sparked this discussion; the one I was replying too.


"Suppose, then, that the free market has established gold as money (forgetting again about silver for the sake of simplicity)."

Government mandated gold standard is something totally different. In a free market you have the choice of different currencies.

The question remains, why would you support a government mandated gold standard over the free market? :rolleyes: