Minnesota State Convention was rigged

[TruePatriot44]

I just got back from the Minnesota State Convention and I've never experienced a bigger screw over.

First, they made Ron Paul speak outside the convention in a Park. They wouldn't let him inside even though he came all the way from Texas.

Secondly, going into the convention, there were 14 delegates and 14 alternate slots up for grabs. Anyone who wanted to run for the positions were required to meet with a nominee committee the day before. Hundreds of people met with the committee spending 3+ hours in line to be interviewed. Many people traveled to Rochester Minnesota from hundreds of miles away. The Ron Paul forces had their slate of 14 delegates and 14 alternates to vote for.

Now, when it came time to vote for the 14 delegates and alternate slots, The committee filtered the names on the ballot to mostly John McCain supporters. Only 3 names on the ballot were Ron Paul supporters. Nobody knew that the committee was going to filter names and prevent people for voting for them. So basically the Ron Paul slate was 95% ineligible.

To make it worse, in the rules that were stealthy adopted prior, one rule did not allow nominations from the floor. This mean't we could not write in names on the ballot. Also our ballots were ineligible if we did not vote for exactly 14 people. So in essence, we were forced to vote McCain delegates to the convention.

There was an uproar by the Paul forces when this occured. The convention at one point was getting out of hand when there were 50+ people waiting at the microphones to speak wondering why we couldn't write people in. Everyone was clearly anger at this bullshit. This was clearly not democratic, but more like Iran where their Supreme Council cherry picks candidates for their national elections.

I am dumb founded they would not allow us to even write names in for the delegate slots. They were clearly trying to prevent Paul from winning any delegates.

Ron Carey, the Minnesota GOP Chairman, obviously cherry picked his slate of McCain supporters that would be elected. The chairman is not impartial to the campaigns, but is actively working against Ron Paul.

We will need your support up here in Minnesota this September. This action by the GOP must be countered with our demonstrations during the national convention.

[RPTXState]

Do you not know what the word "rump" means?

[JMann]

Being in the minority sucks doesn't it? Funny how every poll, tv show, caucus, primary, voting machine, and convention is rigged.

You think that the problem is is that Ron Paul's people don't run the show and are in the minority and are not making the rules instead the world being against Paul?

If you don't like the cable news outlets why don't the Ron Paul folks raise another 35 million and create a professional 24/7 internet news network? If the market likes it, in a few years the Liberty News Network could be on cable stations across the country.

[runningdiz]

I don't know why people act so shocked when this happens. This is why Ron can not win the election they will just bend the rules to prevent it. This was expected in Min. because this is where the National COnvention will be. How embaressing would it be if Min. elected a majority of Ron Paul Delegates to the convention, the state party could not let that happen.

[MozoVote]

Well, this wasn't Nevada, where a supermajority of 2/3 could have untied the rules and started from scratch. Hopefully witnessing the large number of disenfranchised new Republicans made an impression on some of the fence sitters.

The next round will be the internal party elections. The RNC won't be babysitting Minnesota then.

[raystone]

thanks for the report truepatriot44

[SLSteven]

This is why it is imperative to continue to fight from the local level. I hope people will take note of their need and willingness to manipulate.

[teshuah]

I just hope they're not able to give Norm the endorsement. Now that would be grand, wouldn't it?

[wgadget]

I just got back from the Minnesota State Convention and I've never experienced a bigger screw over.

First, they made Ron Paul speak outside the convention in a Park. They wouldn't let him inside even though he came all the way from Texas.

Secondly, going into the convention, there were 14 delegates and 14 alternate slots up for grabs. Anyone who wanted to run for the positions were required to meet with a nominee committee the day before. Hundreds of people met with the committee spending 3+ hours in line to be interviewed. Many people traveled to Rochester Minnesota from hundreds of miles away. The Ron Paul forces had their slate of 14 delegates and 14 alternates to vote for.

Now, when it came time to vote for the 14 delegates and alternate slots, The committee filtered the names on the ballot to mostly John McCain supporters. Only 3 names on the ballot were Ron Paul supporters. Nobody knew that the committee was going to filter names and prevent people for voting for them. So basically the Ron Paul slate was 95% ineligible.

To make it worse, in the rules that were stealthy adopted prior, one rule did not allow nominations from the floor. This mean't we could not write in names on the ballot. Also our ballots were ineligible if we did not vote for exactly 14 people. So in essence, we were forced to vote McCain delegates to the convention.

There was an uproar by the Paul forces when this occured. The convention at one point was getting out of hand when there were 50+ people waiting at the microphones to speak wondering why we couldn't write people in. Everyone was clearly anger at this bullshit. This was clearly not democratic, but more like Iran where their Supreme Council cherry picks candidates for their national elections.

I am dumb founded they would not allow us to even write names in for the delegate slots. They were clearly trying to prevent Paul from winning any delegates.

Ron Carey, the Minnesota GOP Chairman, obviously cherry picked his slate of McCain supporters that would be elected. The chairman is not impartial to the campaigns, but is actively working against Ron Paul.

We will need your support up here in Minnesota this September. This action by the GOP must be countered with our demonstrations during the national convention.

Sounds like your convention chairman got the exact same memo that ours did here in GA. They pulled the exact same crap.:mad::mad:

[dvdrink]

This is shocking.

I am absolutely stunned that the GOP would continue to marginalize us Ron Paul supporters....


Barr '08

[TruePatriot44]

I just hope they're not able to give Norm the endorsement. Now that would be grand, wouldn't it?

They didn't even really hold a vote for that. Just did a verbal "aye" by the crowd, while people were yelling no. It was more of a ceremony. The committee didn't give a crap how they voted.

[wgadget]

Down in GA we had a resolution where it was OBVIOUS that the nays had won, but apparently the "chairman" heard otherwise...Talk about rigged.

[MozoVote]

If they were going to railroad the vote and make parliamentary procedure irrelevant, I'm glad to hear things got vocal in there. The rest of the people need to be walking out asking "What kind of party *IS* this?"

[wgadget]

Yes, that is the ONLY comfort. But then you start wondering if they really have consciences....

[SLSteven]

If they were going to railroad the vote and make parliamentary procedure irrelevant, I'm glad to hear things got vocal in there. The rest of the people need to be walking out asking "What kind of party *IS* this?"

The kind of party that thinks the ends justify the ends. We have to be better than them!

[ronpaulhawaii]

They didn't even really hold a vote for that. Just did a verbal "aye" by the crowd, while people were yelling no. It was more of a ceremony. The committee didn't give a crap how they voted.

:o

Wow...

Thanks for standing up for us and bringing the report

[Lucille]

First, they made Ron Paul speak outside the convention in a Park. They wouldn't let him inside...

So. they actually turned him away at the door? Seriously?

I wish the MN GOP a hearty Deadwood mornin' greetin' (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frFfQsDYeA4).


This is shocking.

I am absolutely stunned that the GOP would continue to marginalize us Ron Paul supporters....

WTF are they so afraid of?!

[SLSteven]

WTF are they so afraid of?!

Losing power

[AJ Antimony]

This is why it is imperative to continue to fight from the local level. I hope people will take note of their need and willingness to manipulate.

Ha! I say to hell with that! People fought locally, got elected to the state convention... only to be treated like pure shit.

The Republican Party establishment can go to hell, there's no way I'm going to help out their party for the shit they do.

[IPSecure]

Why not go stealth?

Tell them we support killing the unborn.

Tell them we support killing hundreds of thousands of people around the globe, using lies and deceit.

Tell them we support an economy based upon useless paper.

Then we would fit in with the rest of the crowd... and maybe pick up some delegates for Dr. Paul...

[AJ Antimony]

Do you not know what the word "rump" means?

That, or just flat out punch that asshole Carey in the face. Strange... none of these stories surprise me, yet each and every single one really pisses me off.

[Ninja Homer]

Just a bunch of neocon snobs fighting for control of the Titanic. Kicking some of the Ron Paul supporters off their ship is the only small success they'll have this year.

"Stay the course, boys, stay the course! Never mind that gigantic iceberg named Obama. We'll break right through it... er... something."

Just be ready to take over the GOP after the neocon ship sinks in November, when all the GOP regulars realize that the course set by the neocon leaders at the top was a failure from the beginning. As long as everybody keeps at it, there really is no stopping us. It's just a matter of time.

[SLSteven]

Ha! I say to hell with that! People fought locally, got elected to the state convention... only to be treated like pure shit.

The Republican Party establishment can go to hell, there's no way I'm going to help out their party for the shit they do.

We still need more people. It took a long time for them to build all of this corruption.

[DrSpock]

Just a bunch of neocon snobs fighting for control of the Titanic. Kicking some of the Ron Paul supporters off their ship is the only small success they'll have this year.

"Stay the course, boys, stay the course! Never mind that gigantic iceberg named Obama. We'll break right through it... er... something."

Just be ready to take over the GOP after the neocon ship sinks in November, when all the GOP regulars realize that the course set by the neocon leaders at the top was a failure from the beginning. As long as everybody keeps at it, there really is no stopping us. It's just a matter of time.

Indeed. They continue to do our work for us.

[Mattsa]

This is shocking.

I am absolutely stunned that the GOP would continue to marginalize us Ron Paul supporters....


Barr '08

Really?

You better take s dose of reality pills my friend because the Republican party doesn't represent YOU anymore. They represent their own agenda

Don't sound so surprised...please

I've witnessed the death of democracy and freedom in the UK for 35 years. This is how they steal liberty and freedom, this is how they infect the opposition. You have far much faith in your political process. They will steal your rights like thieves in the night. Don't be so surprised. this is how they operate.

[ProBlue33]

And still people want to put there vote where it will not hurt the GOP and McCain, well at least they are really pissing off all these GOP people that might have voted for the GOP.
Not anymore.

[AJ Antimony]

We still need more people. It took a long time for them to build all of this corruption.

Uh, not really. IMO the problem is every establishment Republican is a fucking sheep. They just join the mob which happens to be crying "UNITY UNITY UNITY, then maybe principles..."

[DrSpock]

Uh, not really. IMO the problem is every establishment Republican is a fucking sheep. They just join the mob which happens to be crying "UNITY UNITY UNITY, then maybe principles..."

You are correct. They fall in line with the GOP establishment.

I cannot speak for everyone, but locally we should be the establishment within the next year.

At that point they can fall in line behind us.

[IPSecure]

Uh, not really. IMO the problem is every establishment Republican is a fucking sheep. They just join the mob which happens to be crying "UNITY UNITY UNITY, then maybe principles..."

I disagree, give me an example (other than Dr. Paul) where the party ever voted for principles...

[Michael Landon]

At what point do we decide to vote for OBAMA in protest of the way the GOP treats it's members? I've voted Republican most of my life and I'm really beginning to think I'll never vote for another Republican again. This sort of shit really angers me to no end.

After writing something like the above I start thinking about what we can accomplish in two years or four years if we continue to develop the grassroots of the Revolution. Perhaps there is something we can do in due time.

- ML

Oh, and by the way, "good luck McCain, I hope you get at least 30% of the vote so it's not a total asswhipping, you fucker."

[Alawn]

At what point do we decide to vote for OBAMA in protest of the way the GOP treats it's members? I've voted Republican most of my life and I'm really beginning to think I'll never vote for another Republican again. This sort of shit really angers me to no end.

After writing something like the above I start thinking about what we can accomplish in two years or four years if we continue to develop the grassroots of the Revolution. Perhaps there is something we can do in due time.

- ML

Oh, and by the way, "good luck McCain, I hope you get at least 30% of the vote so it's not a total asswhipping, you fucker."

Voting for Obama doesn't send a message to them. It just says you want socialism and you love the Democrats. Vote for the LP to send a message. That tells them you are unhappy with the Republicans without saying you love the Democrats. It lets them know how many Republicans they lost because they were being idiots.

[The Good Doctor]

Never! Write in or nothing.


At what point do we decide to vote for OBAMA in protest of the way the GOP treats it's members? I've voted Republican most of my life and I'm really beginning to think I'll never vote for another Republican again. This sort of shit really angers me to no end.

After writing something like the above I start thinking about what we can accomplish in two years or four years if we continue to develop the grassroots of the Revolution. Perhaps there is something we can do in due time.

- ML

Oh, and by the way, "good luck McCain, I hope you get at least 30% of the vote so it's not a total asswhipping, you fucker."

[sratiug]

Being in the minority sucks doesn't it? Funny how every poll, tv show, caucus, primary, voting machine, and convention is rigged.

You think that the problem is is that Ron Paul's people don't run the show and are in the minority and are not making the rules instead the world being against Paul?

If you don't like the cable news outlets why don't the Ron Paul folks raise another 35 million and create a professional 24/7 internet news network? If the market likes it, in a few years the Liberty News Network could be on cable stations across the country.

If you don't think this was rigged, then why couldn't they have fair votes?

[Cowlesy]

Was Marianne there? Does she have a report? "Scribbler de Stebbing"

[ItsTime]

We are winning.... Dont let anyone tell you differently. These bastards are doing everything, like they should, to try to kill this revolution. If we were losing, they wouldnt need to try BUT WE ARE WINNING. Keep hammering this dam until it breaks.

[Cowlesy]

I cannot believe they kept Congressman Paul, Presidential Candidate, outside of the convention.

I'm going to write a blistering letter to Mike Duncan about this.

[wgadget]

It's a disgrace.

[ItsTime]

What would they have done in 1776?


I cannot believe they kept Congressman Paul, Presidential Candidate, outside of the convention.

I'm going to write a blistering letter to Mike Duncan about this.

[Ninja Homer]

Was Marianne there? Does she have a report? "Scribbler de Stebbing"

She was there, mentioned in the Minneapolis Star Tribune blog:
http://ww3.startribune.com/bigquestionblog/?cat=11

[Cowlesy]

She was there, mentioned in the Minneapolis Star Tribune blog:
http://ww3.startribune.com/bigquestionblog/?cat=11

damn -- a heartbreaker. She's worked so hard for this like so many others.

We're here for you Scribbler!

[teshuah]

What would they have done in 1776?

I keep thinking the same thing

[ItsTime]

they would write letters and get mad and post on forums.


I keep thinking the same thing

[DrSpock]

they would write letters and get mad and post on forums.

It's a start.

[ItsTime]

its a regression


It's a start.

[Cowlesy]

its a regression

I am open to suggestions.

[TruePatriot44]

Here is another writeup from a delegate.

http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/2008/05/minnesota-gop-.html

[teshuah]

and another ...a comment from a startirb. blog:

This convention was completely rigged by Ron Carey for John McCain whom 4 of 5 Minnesota Republicans did not vote for. Ron Carey used his power to control who was nominated essentially eliminating most of the non-McCain supporters. They created a list of “qualifications”, but many denied nominees for national delegate were far more qualified than those allowed by Ron Carey’s nominating committee.

Only 26 delegates were approved by Carey’s committee, including magically all 14 of his slate. Because the rules were set up so you must vote for exactly 14, those of us who wanted to vote for the non-Carey slate had to vote for two of carey’s slate to have our ballots count.

It was even worse for the national alternates as only 18 were approved, of which all of the Carey slate that showed up were included. Only 1 nominee did not state support for a particular candidate while the remaining 17 were all for McCain.

On top of this, the rules required that all national delegate candidates appear in Rochester before the nominating committee. Of course Pawlenty, Coleman, and one other were allowed to telephone in while others were told they must appear in person. This was in direct violation of the convention rules but any motions to invalidate the ballots or eliminate those candidates were stopped as “out of order”.

Ron Carey is a cheat and a liar.

[DrSpock]

its a regression

Our Founding Fathers protested in a peaceful manner initially. Writing letters and the like. Let us hope this peaceful revolution continues because the alternative is not something anyone wants.


Peace and Long Life.

http://mindblob.typepad.com/mindblob/images/live_long_and_prosper.jpg

[rodo1776]

Here is a blogger from Minnesota that was on the slate and was anointed as a delegate. Crowing about how he is so humbled and honered to have been "elected" as a delegate.

http://www.minnesotademocratsexposed.com/

Here is what I wrote him:


Hey there. Good job on getting on the ballot for Nat delegate. Exposing democrats is good and it sure worked for you. Good payoff for all your hard work.
Well as a former Minnesotan and fan of Ron Paul I am somewhat shocked as to how you hacks decided to change the rules and not have the guts to allow anyone who wanted to run for National delegate.

Maybe I am wrong but I was active for many years when I was younger and more foolish and idealistic and was a dfler and I simply can't ever remember a state or district convention where we did not allow anyone who wanted to run to be able to do so.

I guess you folks are just so worried about not being able to deliver for Juan McCain that you had to go ahead and make it impossible to have a fair and honest process.

Oh well that is the way it goes but if I were you personally I would not be so proud of your accomplishment today as in reality you were not "Elected" by popular vote since you really had no competition.

I mean face up to facts. You got "anointed" due to your blog and that is it.
Sure I appreciate your work in exposing democrats and more power to you.

But when you gain this position by fixing the rules and violating any sense of decency then I think it is a shallow victory and not one I would be very proud of.

But of course you don't see my point.

No problem we got some delegates for RP in Minnesota and that you can not change.

See you in September.

[Michael Landon]

My point of my earlier post was, I'm so pissed off at the current Republican Party Elites that I would love to see McCain get his ass stomped in the general election. My hatred towards McCain is outweighing my hatred towards socialists, which is a hard thing to do. There is nothing I would like to see more than to see McCain lose in November. Well there is one thing and that is to see Ron Carey get run over by a Mack truck leaving the convention tomorrow. :)

- ML

Now that I think about it, there is no way I could ever vote for Obama but I do hope he beats McCain. It looks like a LP or CP vote for me.

[slacker921]

http://digg.com/politics/Minnesota_GOP_Delusional_in_Rochester

[wowabunga]

Being in the minority sucks doesn't it? Funny how every poll, tv show, caucus, primary, voting machine, and convention is rigged.

If you don't like the cable news outlets why don't the Ron Paul folks raise another 35 million and create a professional 24/7 internet news network? If the market likes it, in a few years the Liberty News Network could be on cable stations across the country.

Thumbs UP..!

[wgadget]

Minnesota Rally TV news story:

http://kaaltv.com/article/stories/S461382.shtml?cat=10151

[wowabunga]

Why not go stealth?

Tell them we support killing the unborn.

Tell them we support killing hundreds of thousands of people around the globe, using lies and deceit.

Tell them we support an economy based upon useless paper.

Then we would fit in with the rest of the crowd... and maybe pick up some delegates for Dr. Paul...


Why not find a way to tell the pubic what is going on... and skip the part where we sink to their level...

[Badger Paul]

More like Minnesota Republicans Exposed, for being liars and cheats. I wonder who thought up the "qualification" standards?


I would walk out of Pawlenty's speech tomorrow in protest for this railroad. I will also inform Republicans than Bob Barr is at 6% in the latest polls and if you don't want him to be at 10% you'll treat Ron Paul supporters with some respect.

[voytechs]

Welcome to America!!!

[AndyWhite]

We are winning.... Dont let anyone tell you differently. These bastards are doing everything, like they should, to try to kill this revolution. If we were losing, they wouldnt need to try BUT WE ARE WINNING. Keep hammering this dam until it breaks.

I agree with this statement. We need only not get discouraged and we've already won.

[MozoVote]

I agree with that sentiment.

First, it was about nominating Paul.

Then, it was about going to fight for the party platform.

Now, it is about exposing crony politics and corruption.

[Ninja Homer]

Some bloggers who were at the convention:
http://martinandrade.wordpress.com/
http://www.scsuscholars.com/
http://www.eckernet.com/
http://www.residualforces.com/

I like the first one the best... a McCain supporter voting for Ron Paul delegates because he didn't like the way the establishment was treating them. I have to believe that there are many GOP regulars like him, who will see how they have been misled by their leaders come November.

[StilesBC]

How do you guys let them get away with this shit?

You have numbers. Rush the stage. Demand democracy. Stage a citizens arrest of the Chairperson. The courts cannot do it for you. They don't care about your damned letters.

If you're not prepared to get aggressive, prepare to become yet another victim of these facists. You might be able to get a couple of percentage points in the general election by voting for the LP or the CP. But even if you do get more, do you think it will get reported? Even recorded? Sure, you can hope McCain gets obliterated by Obama. But do you think that they care? The two parties are ideologically identical on any matter of importance. A victory by Obama is a victory by the neocons. The entire rest of the world understands this, yet Americans seem to buy into the bullshit every four years.

Ahh, yes. The Revolution will live on, win or lose. We'll have a presence in '12! Or will we? With the rapidity of freedoms being lost in the US, what makes you think the right to vote is a given? The neocons are willing to go to any lengths to silence the message of liberty.

Don't take the remaining liberties you have for granted. There may not be a next time.

[MozoVote]

We don't need to get tazed. Exposing the abuses of power and doublespeak from our "leadership" and winning converts from the mainstram GOP, is more valuable.

Rushing the stage just plays into the image of RP "kooks".

[DrSpock]

We don't need to get tazed. Exposing the abuses of power and doublespeak from our "leadership" and winning converts from the mainstram GOP, is more valuable.

Yes it is and we are doing it at every convention that they pull these underhanded tactics. As I said, they are doing our work for us.

[StilesBC]

When you say 'exposing', you really mean preach to the choir. The only ones that read of these convention recaps are RP supporters. We accomplish nothing.

The majority of Ameicans are angry with what is happening in your country. Being diplomatic with those who act illegally gives the wrong message. It makes us seem like we're nothing more than a branch off the same tree.

[jblosser]

Did you have a majority or not? If not, you lose. If you did, they can't just declare new rules.

It sounds like a lot of delegations to the RNC are going to be subject to challenge under violations of rule 15.

[AJ Antimony]

How do you guys let them get away with this shit?

You have numbers. Rush the stage. Demand democracy. Stage a citizens arrest of the Chairperson. The courts cannot do it for you. They don't care about your damned letters.

If you're not prepared to get aggressive, prepare to become yet another victim of these facists. You might be able to get a couple of percentage points in the general election by voting for the LP or the CP. But even if you do get more, do you think it will get reported? Even recorded? Sure, you can hope McCain gets obliterated by Obama. But do you think that they care? The two parties are ideologically identical on any matter of importance. A victory by Obama is a victory by the neocons. The entire rest of the world understands this, yet Americans seem to buy into the bullshit every four years.

Ahh, yes. The Revolution will live on, win or lose. We'll have a presence in '12! Or will we? With the rapidity of freedoms being lost in the US, what makes you think the right to vote is a given? The neocons are willing to go to any lengths to silence the message of liberty.

Don't take the remaining liberties you have for granted. There may not be a next time.

+a billion

[IPSecure]

Why not find a way to tell the pubic what is going on... and skip the part where we sink to their level...

I have tried my best on a daily basis... A lot of people just do not care...

Sheeple:
- Would rather 'not think about it.'
- Would rather watch a ballgame.
- Would rather go out to dinner and a movie.
- Would rather watch Amerikan Idle. (Yes I know how to spell...)


When in Rome...

[RoamZero]

The meetups need to print up some pamphlets to give out at these conventions that warn of potential signs of underhandedness and rule breaking. If the average people at these conventions, even McCain supporters see things going unfairly (and being warned of it in advance) then that might help sway some people.

[tnvoter]

Don't worry when the GoP keeps wondering why they don't have any money they're going to come to terms with the phrase "blow back".

[DrSpock]

Don't worry when the GoP keeps wondering why they don't have any money they're going to come to terms with the phrase "blow back".

They have no idea in regards to what is about to happen to them. Not only are they going to lose basically everything they hold, they will also be replaced by true patriots.

[jonsmallberries]

Perfectly stated. I thought maybe the snowball of bullshit would eventually catch the eye of the "average" American, but it hasn't and it won't. Isn't odd that the democrats aren't jumping all over this? It's not when you realize the two parties have a gentleman's agreement to not allow true freedom into the ranks. The libs and the neocons are perfect opponents, because they're only opponents in name.


How do you guys let them get away with this shit?

You have numbers. Rush the stage. Demand democracy. Stage a citizens arrest of the Chairperson. The courts cannot do it for you. They don't care about your damned letters.

If you're not prepared to get aggressive, prepare to become yet another victim of these facists. You might be able to get a couple of percentage points in the general election by voting for the LP or the CP. But even if you do get more, do you think it will get reported? Even recorded? Sure, you can hope McCain gets obliterated by Obama. But do you think that they care? The two parties are ideologically identical on any matter of importance. A victory by Obama is a victory by the neocons. The entire rest of the world understands this, yet Americans seem to buy into the bullshit every four years.

Ahh, yes. The Revolution will live on, win or lose. We'll have a presence in '12! Or will we? With the rapidity of freedoms being lost in the US, what makes you think the right to vote is a given? The neocons are willing to go to any lengths to silence the message of liberty.

Don't take the remaining liberties you have for granted. There may not be a next time.

[therealjjj77]

This is why it is imperative that Ron Paul supporters are on the rules committee, nominating committee, organization committee and platform committee.

Rules Committee writes the rules and could have prevented rigged rules.

Nominating committee could have set up the slate as 100% pro Ron Paul.

Organizing committee could have had Ron Paul speaking IN the building.

And platform committee could have helped make a solid Ron Paul platform to present before the body.

There's where you guys really goofed up. We know what to expect from the GOP by now. Let's not let another state make this same mistake.

[Michael Landon]

What kind of influence can we have on the party in 2 years? I'm not too familiar with the Non-Presidential election year's caucus. Is there a chance that we could own the Minnesota Republican Party in the next 2 years because of it being an off year?

- ML

[Lucille]

Here is another writeup from a delegate.

http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/2008/05/minnesota-gop-.html

Karl Rove closing out the MN state convention? Are they kidding me with this?


Perhaps one of the most puzzling actions by the MN GOP leadership, Carey announcement that the convention would close "by someone who can really fire them up," an address by Karl Rove. This year nearly every national Republican candidate, including John McCain is trying to distance themselves from the Bush White House. The only people in Minnesota, besides Carey and his executive committee, fired up and energized over Rove will be the Democrats. Instead of being smart and bringing in a conservative like: Newt Gingrich, Sean Hannity or Laura Ingrams to really fire up the convention crown, the "Minnesota Gang Who Can't Shoot Straight" gives the DFL at cause to crow about.

Their heads are so far up their asses...

[Rhys]

Anyone have Ron Carey's cell phone and email address?

[Lucille]

Here is another writeup from a delegate.

http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/2008/05/minnesota-gop-.html

He updated this morning. He's fired up, and he's not even a Paul supporter!

Rochester - The Morning After! (http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/2008/05/rochester---the.html)


After sleeping on my experience in Rochester yesterday one now has to question whether or how involved one want to be with a political party that openly attacks it's own and treats people with so little respect. The mean spirited behavior witnessed in Rochester was nothing short of appalling. The Minnesota Republican Party "establishment" has developed a bunker mentality that attacks anyone suspected of not towing the establishment party line and it is costing them dearly.

[...]

The shocking hypocritical quote in today's Star Tribune by the MN GOP Chair: "We want the Ron Paul people to be part of the party - they are part of the party," begs the question Mr. Chairmen, were you sleeping during the political training class on good leadership techniques? After openly attacking the Paul people for weeks as unworthy to participate in the process, by accusing them of not being true Republicans, by stacking the convention rules to exclude them from participating, and by refusing to allow them the opportunity to address the convention, you now expect them to rejoin the effort to elect GOP candidates this November? It reminds me of the scene in the movie Animal House where the fraternity pledge is getting paddled and after every smack to his bottom he says, "Thank you sir, can I have another."

Yes, this has been a sad weekend for Republicans in Rochester. Is there any doubt now why it is so difficult to recruit qualified individuals to run under the MN GOP banner? Perhaps when integrity, respect and civility is restored in the MN GOP things will change. Until then, you will see the MN GOP brand in the losing column and former MN GOP volunteers who are passionate, motivated and staunchly conservative seeking a more accepting venue somewhere else.

Oh what the hell! It was only one quarter (about 500) of the people who chose to take a day from work and attend the convention. Who needs them anyway?

You'll excuse me now, I have to return to Rochester for more classes on how to bury my head in the sand so I can be a good Minnesota Republican!

[Rhys]

Being in the minority sucks doesn't it? Funny how every poll, tv show, caucus, primary, voting machine, and convention is rigged.

You think that the problem is is that Ron Paul's people don't run the show and are in the minority and are not making the rules instead the world being against Paul?

If you don't like the cable news outlets why don't the Ron Paul folks raise another 35 million and create a professional 24/7 internet news network? If the market likes it, in a few years the Liberty News Network could be on cable stations across the country.

being the minority doesn't suck in a republic. If you weren't just an insurgent, you'd know that.

[Ninja Homer]

He updated this morning. He's fired up, and he's not even a Paul supporter!

Rochester - The Morning After! (http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/2008/05/rochester---the.html)

Thanks! I like that guy, and I think there's a lot more within the GOP like him - GOP regulars who are pissed off at the way the GOP establishment is trying to run things which is shrinking and destroying the party. He gets it, and I think many others are starting to. There will be a flood of people like him in November.

This blog has been updated as well, and looks like it will be updated through the day today:
http://www.eckernet.com/

This one hasn't been updated yet, but I think it will be if anything important happens today (he had regular updates yesterday):
http://www.scsuscholars.com/

[rodo1776]

This is why it is imperative that Ron Paul supporters are on the rules committee, nominating committee, organization committee and platform committee.

Rules Committee writes the rules and could have prevented rigged rules.

Nominating committee could have set up the slate as 100% pro Ron Paul.

Organizing committee could have had Ron Paul speaking IN the building.

And platform committee could have helped make a solid Ron Paul platform to present before the body.

There's where you guys really goofed up. We know what to expect from the GOP by now. Let's not let another state make this same mistake.

Hey realjjj77 I don't mean to be negative but in fact if you will recall the Minnesotans were able to elect 6-8 national delegates already in the Congressional District conventions held earlier. I would say that is pretty darn miraculous.

Because of their success there the hacks came up with this strategy to railroad through everything and send in McCain National HQ people to basically run the show in every state and make Nazi style rules that prevent RP from having any chance of success.

I agree with you that that RP people should get on all the committees. But that is easier said than done and even getting on committees you have to have a majority to be able to do what you suggest.
This all takes time and for people to stay involved and learn.

And lastly can you tell us all how many National Delegates you folks in Iowa have elected?

I believe it is zero but please correct me if I am wrong.

[pepperpete1]

I just got back from the Minnesota State Convention and I've never experienced a bigger screw over.

First, they made Ron Paul speak outside the convention in a Park. They wouldn't let him inside even though he came all the way from Texas.

Secondly, going into the convention, there were 14 delegates and 14 alternate slots up for grabs. Anyone who wanted to run for the positions were required to meet with a nominee committee the day before. Hundreds of people met with the committee spending 3+ hours in line to be interviewed. Many people traveled to Rochester Minnesota from hundreds of miles away. The Ron Paul forces had their slate of 14 delegates and 14 alternates to vote for.

Now, when it came time to vote for the 14 delegates and alternate slots, The committee filtered the names on the ballot to mostly John McCain supporters. Only 3 names on the ballot were Ron Paul supporters. Nobody knew that the committee was going to filter names and prevent people for voting for them. So basically the Ron Paul slate was 95% ineligible.

To make it worse, in the rules that were stealthy adopted prior, one rule did not allow nominations from the floor. This mean't we could not write in names on the ballot. Also our ballots were ineligible if we did not vote for exactly 14 people. So in essence, we were forced to vote McCain delegates to the convention.

There was an uproar by the Paul forces when this occured. The convention at one point was getting out of hand when there were 50+ people waiting at the microphones to speak wondering why we couldn't write people in. Everyone was clearly anger at this bullshit. This was clearly not democratic, but more like Iran where their Supreme Council cherry picks candidates for their national elections.

I am dumb founded they would not allow us to even write names in for the delegate slots. They were clearly trying to prevent Paul from winning any delegates.

Ron Carey, the Minnesota GOP Chairman, obviously cherry picked his slate of McCain supporters that would be elected. The chairman is not impartial to the campaigns, but is actively working against Ron Paul.

We will need your support up here in Minnesota this September. This action by the GOP must be countered with our demonstrations during the national convention.

Rule No. 15 Election of Delegates & Alternate Delegates

(c) General
(2) Only persons eligible to vote who are deemed as a matter of public record to be Republicans pursuant to state law or, if voters are not enrolled by party, by Republican party rules of a state, shall participate in any primary election held for the purpose of electing delegates or alternate delegates to the national convention or in any Republican caucus, mass meeting, or mass convention held for the purpose of selecting delegates to the county, district, or state conventions, and only such legal and qualified voters shall be elected as delegates to county, district, and state conventions; provided, however, that in addition to the qualifications provided herein, the applicable Republican party rules of a state may prescribe additional qualifications not inconsistent with law, which additional qualifications shall be adopted before the first Tuesday in September in the year before the year in which the national convention is to be held and published in at least one (1) newspaper having a general circulation throughout the state, such publication to be at least ninety (90) days before such qualifications become effective

I would think that if someone broke rules to obtain a certain result that upon a challenge the results would be nullified.

Does anyone know how a justified challenge, that is awarded, would be recompensed?:)

[syborius]

Well, this wasn't Nevada, where a supermajority of 2/3 could have untied the rules and started from scratch. Hopefully witnessing the large number of disenfranchised new Republicans made an impression on some of the fence sitters.

The next round will be the internal party elections. The RNC won't be babysitting Minnesota then.

Important to remember, let them have their filtered slate, now go after their positions of power and rid the state of this cancer.

[syborius]

And still people want to put there vote where it will not hurt the GOP and McCain, well at least they are really pissing off all these GOP people that might have voted for the GOP.
Not anymore.

the gop doesn't care if Mccain wins, or loses, this whole election process was setup to make Obama and Clinton look like moderate angels. despite them constantly voting for more war funding which the majority of people are oblivious to. There is only one party called the "war party", and their only job is to squash the opposition to their agenda.

[Imperial]

Down in GA we had a resolution where it was OBVIOUS that the nays had won, but apparently the "chairman" heard otherwise...Talk about rigged.

Always call for a division of the assembly at this point. By parliamentary procedure, they can do nothing to deny this. Doesn't even need a second, and you can interrupt a speaker and do not need recognition.

Count all votes yourselves as well!

[syborius]

At what point do we decide to vote for OBAMA in protest of the way the GOP treats it's members? I've voted Republican most of my life and I'm really beginning to think I'll never vote for another Republican again. This sort of shit really angers me to no end.

After writing something like the above I start thinking about what we can accomplish in two years or four years if we continue to develop the grassroots of the Revolution. Perhaps there is something we can do in due time.

- ML

Oh, and by the way, "good luck McCain, I hope you get at least 30% of the vote so it's not a total asswhipping, you fucker."

Voting for Obama is voting for the war party, zbigniew brzezinski is his advisor, that is all you really need to know and understand, and get it through your skull, it is Ron Paul Vs. Establishment/War Party

[Imperial]

the gop doesn't care if Mccain wins, or loses, this whole election process was setup to make Obama and Clinton look like moderate angels. despite them constantly voting for more war funding which the majority of people are oblivious to. There is only one party called the "war party", and their only job is to squash the opposition to their agenda.

No, that is just conspiratorial. They just realize they are screwed if they allow RP in.

Think about it; their pride and positions are threatened if they let Paul in. Then, it is tantamount to admitting they haven't been living up to their name. They risk upsetting the media. No, it has always been necessary to take it over.

Instead, they feel like the nomination was already decided, b/c mccain managed to compete and romney then surrendered early on. Of course it would be a fight with mccain, but romney surrendered so he could try to win later.


Voting for Obama is voting for the war party, zbigniew brzezinski is his advisor, that is all you really need to know and understand, and get it through your skull, it is Ron Paul Vs. Establishment/War Party

Well, I would vote third party instead of Obama. However, if you must vote for establishment, vote Obama. At least then you are doing the key: STOP MCCAIN!

Already, the Republicans are slated to lose congress. They believe that at this point the only way to maintain the republicans is to get mccain in the white house. So, conversely, if the republicans lose the white house, they have no power base.

Enter the RPR's. If somehow McCain loses, and Repubs mostly lose congress, the party will be more vulnerable than it was when the gang of 11 began back last year with the new presidential cycle. Our ideology can win! And WE will be in the system.

We have to pick our foes one at a time. Beat the neo-cons before you beat the socialists.

[syborius]

Here is a blogger from Minnesota that was on the slate and was anointed as a delegate. Crowing about how he is so humbled and honered to have been "elected" as a delegate.

http://www.minnesotademocratsexposed.com/

Here is what I wrote him:


Hey there. Good job on getting on the ballot for Nat delegate. Exposing democrats is good and it sure worked for you. Good payoff for all your hard work.
Well as a former Minnesotan and fan of Ron Paul I am somewhat shocked as to how you hacks decided to change the rules and not have the guts to allow anyone who wanted to run for National delegate.

Maybe I am wrong but I was active for many years when I was younger and more foolish and idealistic and was a dfler and I simply can't ever remember a state or district convention where we did not allow anyone who wanted to run to be able to do so.

I guess you folks are just so worried about not being able to deliver for Juan McCain that you had to go ahead and make it impossible to have a fair and honest process.

Oh well that is the way it goes but if I were you personally I would not be so proud of your accomplishment today as in reality you were not "Elected" by popular vote since you really had no competition.

I mean face up to facts. You got "anointed" due to your blog and that is it.
Sure I appreciate your work in exposing democrats and more power to you.

But when you gain this position by fixing the rules and violating any sense of decency then I think it is a shallow victory and not one I would be very proud of.

But of course you don't see my point.

No problem we got some delegates for RP in Minnesota and that you can not change.

See you in September.


Nice letter, what I've been preaching for the last 6 months is really opposite your mentality. Everyone of you RP supporters should have become friends with this moron long ago, even write a side blog with his, if you used some smart politicking, some stealth, some cunning, maybe you would too be writing a blog entry of how honoured you are to have been elected as a delegate, of course only waiting for your opportunity to stick it to the scum. Knowing the game is rigged, if you intend to change the outcome of the game you too must also be involved in rigging the game

[syborius]

No, that is just conspiratorial. They just realize they are screwed if they allow RP in.

Think about it; their pride and positions are threatened if they let Paul in. Then, it is tantamount to admitting they haven't been living up to their name. They risk upsetting the media. No, it has always been necessary to take it over.

Instead, they feel like the nomination was already decided, b/c mccain managed to compete and romney then surrendered early on. Of course it would be a fight with mccain, but romney surrendered so he could try to win later.



Well, I would vote third party instead of Obama. However, if you must vote for establishment, vote Obama. At least then you are doing the key: STOP MCCAIN!

Already, the Republicans are slated to lose congress. They believe that at this point the only way to maintain the republicans is to get mccain in the white house. So, conversely, if the republicans lose the white house, they have no power base.

Enter the RPR's. If somehow McCain loses, and Repubs mostly lose congress, the party will be more vulnerable than it was when the gang of 11 began back last year with the new presidential cycle. Our ideology can win! And WE will be in the system.

We have to pick our foes one at a time. Beat the neo-cons before you beat the socialists.

No, it is reality, and you are quite foolishly blind to not see it.

[Imperial]

I am not blind.

I know many Ron Paul Republicans believe there is a great willful cooperation between Democrats and Republicans. I believe it is a more incidental relationship producing the Republicrats, not so much a secret hush meeting between two great forces snickering about how screwed America is, but more of because there are only two preponderant forces in politics both can independently brush off a threat to each with relative ease.

However, I respect your opinion. Either way it truly is, the same result is produced: continued monopoly of the political system. Either way, the solution is the same: break the monopoly from within. Both parties are top-down organizations, which means the top is inherently a minority. So, bringing the American people's voice into the mix is key. To do that, the stranglehold must be broken.

[satchelmcqueen]

At what point do we decide to vote for OBAMA in protest of the way the GOP treats it's members? I've voted Republican most of my life and I'm really beginning to think I'll never vote for another Republican again. This sort of shit really angers me to no end.

After writing something like the above I start thinking about what we can accomplish in two years or four years if we continue to develop the grassroots of the Revolution. Perhaps there is something we can do in due time.

- ML

Oh, and by the way, "good luck McCain, I hope you get at least 30% of the vote so it's not a total asswhipping, you fucker."

There is no point. Paul is our man and we need to vote for him. I see what you are saying though, but dont give in, thats what they want. Vote PAUL.

[satchelmcqueen]

What would they have done in 1776?

i bet storm the place with guns and large sticks, or thrown the cheats out in the street. but yeah......you will get jailed for that now.

[Michael Landon]

Most of my posts that are written in haste always come back to bite me in the ass. :)

- ML

[ninnarae]

I was a delegate supporting Ron Paul in Minnesota at the local and county levels. I am sick of the back room deals and the unfairness. I am writing in Ron Paul's name on the ballot in November. If this leads to a McCain loss- great! If I couldn't write in his name (we DO have write ins here), I would vote Libertarian or Constitution party. I think the Republican party NEEDS an overwhelming loss before it is willing to listen and make changes. We must continue to work for change and spread the truth!

[PeacePlan]

Can you write in a name on an electronic voting machine?

[TruePatriot44]

Can you write in a name on an electronic voting machine?

No, but what's your point? We were using manual paper ballots at the convention.

[PeacePlan]

No, but what's your point? We were using manual paper ballots at the convention.

The post before mine was stating that they would write in RP at election time...

I was wondering how he would do that?

[ninnarae]

Can you write in a name on an electronic voting machine?

Where I live in Minnesota we use paper ballots that we mark on and can write in a name. Hopefully, that situation is still in place for this year's election! I don't know if it is possible with electronic machines- if not, that's when I would vote third party.

[Gilby]

I was a delegate supporting Ron Paul in Minnesota at the local and county levels. I am sick of the back room deals and the unfairness. I am writing in Ron Paul's name on the ballot in November. If this leads to a McCain loss- great! If I couldn't write in his name (we DO have write ins here), I would vote Libertarian or Constitution party. I think the Republican party NEEDS an overwhelming loss before it is willing to listen and make changes. We must continue to work for change and spread the truth!

As far as I know, write-ins in MN have to be registered as write-ins, and that for us to vote for Ron Paul, we would have to write in "Ronald Ernest Paul" on the ballot. While, my original plan was to have a write in, I think the RP movement will move towards the libertarian party candidate and therefore we should all unify and vote for Bob Barr.

[Schlickenmeyer]

There may well be collusion between parties if the info I was given was correct.
A supporter told me that mccain had coauthored 86 bills with clinton and obama last year. I have not had time to verify this information, so take it with a grain of salt.

If true, that would make him even worse than I thought.

And that's really hard to do.

[mexicanpizza]

Can you write in a name on an electronic voting machine?

http://theseventhletterstore.com/images/KG0030-paintPX30SLVR.jpg

[ronpaulhawaii]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hrudozuEQI8&feature=email

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[Join The Paul Side]

This sounds kinda like what happended in the Colorado Convention. I just hope that the McCain delegates that witnessed this crap will grow a conscience by September and do the right thing.

I truly hope we get our shit togeather have a real strategy for the national convention because obviously preparations and rumping appears to be an absent thought for these state conventions.

Did you have numbers over them? Did you try to vote out the Chair? Did anybody even put up a fight? Or even know the rules? :confused:

[ProBlue33]

Well, I would vote third party instead of Obama. However, if you must vote for establishment, vote Obama. At least then you are doing the key: STOP MCCAIN!

Already, the Republicans are slated to lose congress. They believe that at this point the only way to maintain the republicans is to get mccain in the white house. So, conversely, if the republicans lose the white house, they have no power base.

Enter the RPR's. If somehow McCain loses, and Repubs mostly lose congress, the party will be more vulnerable than it was when the gang of 11 began back last year with the new presidential cycle. Our ideology can win! And WE will be in the system.

We have to pick our foes one at a time. Beat the neo-cons before you beat the socialists.

QFT - now here is a Ron Paul supporter who totally gets it, get on board the STOP McCain train

[Fyretrohl]

I can not BELIEVE I am seeing this garbage. I thought Ron Paul supporters were intelligent and capable of full thought. Stop McCain talks are no different than the current establishment. 'Throw your vote away on our nasty candidate, so you can beat the other guy.' PLEASE. Pure rubish.

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE! Try to educate others to do the same. You can try to convince them to vote for the candidate you support, but, in the end, the BEST vote they can make is who they truly believe is the best candidate. Voting AGAINST someone just allows the status quo to continue.

Truly, I am disiappointed that people on this forum would be suggesting such a disgusting tactic. Go ahead and join up with Rush and the neocons and everyone else who proposes such wastes.

[liberteebell]

We are winning.... Dont let anyone tell you differently. These bastards are doing everything, like they should, to try to kill this revolution. If we were losing, they wouldnt need to try BUT WE ARE WINNING. Keep hammering this dam until it breaks.

+2008

We've been outed, and from the top of the RNC down, they're doing everything they can to take us out. I was frankly shocked at how blatant the shennagins and back room deals were at the Virginia convention. But the cockroaches are being exposed. And taking the high road is gaining us infinite credibility and respect.

Check this out for more:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=140782

[SLSteven]

I can not BELIEVE I am seeing this garbage. I thought Ron Paul supporters were intelligent and capable of full thought. Stop McCain talks are no different than the current establishment. 'Throw your vote away on our nasty candidate, so you can beat the other guy.' PLEASE. Pure rubish.

VOTE YOUR CONSCIENCE! Try to educate others to do the same. You can try to convince them to vote for the candidate you support, but, in the end, the BEST vote they can make is who they truly believe is the best candidate. Voting AGAINST someone just allows the status quo to continue.

Truly, I am disiappointed that people on this forum would be suggesting such a disgusting tactic. Go ahead and join up with Rush and the neocons and everyone else who proposes such wastes.

Yes, Vote your conscience!

[PeacePlan]

Yes, Vote your conscience!

Voting my conscience rules out McCain for me. I have been against him since Vietnam and he squashed the POW investigation. Last year I fought him by writing letters and calling Washington to stop all his Amnesty plans he was coming up with. Now he wants to keep fighting wars and deploying troops all over the globe at our expense.

Voting for Ron Paul is what I want to do but my guess is no one will give a shit if he gets a 5 or 10% write in vote.

I do like Obama better than I like McCain and maybe the best strategy is to vote for him. McCain if beaten bad enough may weaken the control of the GOP leadership enough that we can challenge the current neocons that control it?

At this point I am pissed at how I have been treated by the GOP! I am both district and state delegate. Maybe it is time for a vendetta against these people as I no longer like them and they have shown they do not care much for me.

I want to see the GOP leadership get hammered and rocked by a huge McCain defeat - he is worse than Obama or Clinton. I do not want to see his finger on the nuke button..

[Rangeley]

Voting my conscience rules out McCain for me. I have been against him since Vietnam and he squashed the POW investigation. Last year I fought him by writing letters and calling Washington to stop all his Amnesty plans he was coming up with. Now he wants to keep fighting wars and deploying troops all over the globe at our expense.

Voting for Ron Paul is what I want to do but my guess is no one will give a shit if he gets a 5 or 10% write in vote.

I do like Obama better than I like McCain and maybe the best strategy is to vote for him. McCain if beaten bad enough may weaken the control of the GOP leadership enough that we can challenge the current neocons that control it?

At this point I am pissed at how I have been treated by the GOP! I am both district and state delegate. Maybe it is time for a vendetta against these people as I no longer like them and they have shown they do not care much for me.

I want to see the GOP leadership get hammered and rocked by a huge McCain defeat - he is worse than Obama or Clinton. I do not want to see his finger on the nuke button..
It makes no sense to vote for Obama. Voting for Barr, or Baldwin seem like the best options, since writing in doesn't always get counted.

Voting for Obama sends a message that you support the things he stands for.

[ProBlue33]

Voting my conscience rules out McCain for me. I have been against him since Vietnam and he squashed the POW investigation. Last year I fought him by writing letters and calling Washington to stop all his Amnesty plans he was coming up with. Now he wants to keep fighting wars and deploying troops all over the globe at our expense.

Voting for Ron Paul is what I want to do but my guess is no one will give a shit if he gets a 5 or 10% write in vote.

I do like Obama better than I like McCain and maybe the best strategy is to vote for him. McCain if beaten bad enough may weaken the control of the GOP leadership enough that we can challenge the current neocons that control it?

At this point I am pissed at how I have been treated by the GOP! I am both district and state delegate. Maybe it is time for a vendetta against these people as I no longer like them and they have shown they do not care much for me.

I want to see the GOP leadership get hammered and rocked by a huge McCain defeat - he is worse than Obama or Clinton. I do not want to see his finger on the nuke button..

It's good to see some Ron Paul supporters understanding the BIG PICTURE....McCain and the GOP must be wiped out this round, nuked and obliterated, and that means voting for Obama as painful as that feels. In 2012 Ron Paul type people will have purged much of the party by then, and if Obama does well he might be too strong to beat, which would be sad. But better than 4 years of McSane, especailly if Obama does even 50% better than Bush. However if the GOP spends 8 long years in the wilderness, that will have given the Ron Paul crowd ample time to take over the entire process at state level on non-election years.
They will be in excellent position to beat Obama's VP, with Ron Paul type person.

This process was only round 1, and from the movement perspective, an awesome success. I don't understand how some people think protest type votes help stop McCain.

[speciallyblend]

I don't know why people act so shocked when this happens. This is why Ron can not win the election they will just bend the rules to prevent it. This was expected in Min. because this is where the National COnvention will be. How embaressing would it be if Min. elected a majority of Ron Paul Delegates to the convention, the state party could not let that happen.

no it shows why mccain will never win the general election, ron paul is the gop's only choice left to win ,since the mccain folks are burning the bridges on 20-35 percent of their own party, in the end it kills mccains chances from the beginning, we hav 4 months to show the gop they are walking off a cliff, 4 months is a LONG LONG TIME;)

[Rangeley]

It's good to see some Ron Paul supporters understanding the BIG PICTURE....McCain and the GOP must be wiped out this round, nuked and obliterated, and that means voting for Obama as painful as that feels. In 2012 Ron Paul type people will have purged much of the party by then, and if Obama does well he might be too strong to beat, which would be sad. But better than 4 years of McSane, especailly if Obama does even 50% better than Bush. However if the GOP spends 8 long years in the wilderness, that will have given the Ron Paul crowd ample time to take over the entire process at state level on non-election years.
They will be in excellent position to beat Obama's VP, with Ron Paul type person.

This process was only round 1, and from the movement perspective, an awesome success. I don't understand how some people think protest type votes help stop McCain.
You just don't get it. The goal is not to deal McCain a major blow. It is to turn away from this false dichotomy that is being presented to us entirely. Obama does not stand for non-interventionism, at home or abroad. He does not stand against the Patriot Act. He does not stand against socialism. He does not stand for freedom.

A vote for him shows that while people are fed up with McCain's brand of authoritarianism, they are not fed up with authoritarianism itself. They just want someone else to tell them where their money will be spent. Someone else to tell them where their kids will be sent to die. Someone else to tell them what to do with their body.

A vote for Obama is nothing more then a vote for someone else that is offering the same things. If you vote for Obama, you are doing nothing to further this movement. I understand that there is a disagreement with people over whether to support Baldwin or Barr, I have come out in support of one of these candidates, but I recognize that both are candidates who stand in opposition to this authoritarianism. A vote for either is something that will further this movement, and this country, because it will show not just a rejection of McCain, but authoritarianism itself.

[RonPaulGuyEastWA]

Always call for a division of the assembly at this point. By parliamentary procedure, they can do nothing to deny this. Doesn't even need a second, and you can interrupt a speaker and do not need recognition.

Count all votes yourselves as well!

I did this exact thing at the Washington state convention when a standing-up vote was 50/50 by visual inspection. The speaker then "called for a vote" to see if we should do a re-vote. It was the same "standing-up" 50/50 split and of course the chair said "The Nays have it."
I insisted from Robert's rules that a roll call vote was not debatable or a votable request but the temporary chair, who happens to be the Washington State Republican Party Chair Luke Esser, insisted I was wrong and quoted Robert's Rules 10th Edition that had nothing to do with a roll call vote. Folks, this type of cheating happened at a LOT of the state conventions. These people must be sued directly as the party clearly does not punish anyone for cheating as long as it is for McCain this year.

[Rangeley]

If anyone is interested, someone uploaded video of the convention.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRVGb0BRuXo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=euCdKHNuaiQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z1sF3SOaCg8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8gU1Gww4Og

They don't have a problem bending the rules to accommodate people... people in the establishment, at least.

[wgadget]

Make sure you guys send copies of "The REVOLUTION" to each and every delegate. There are tools for this located in the STICKY section.

We all can help, nationwide, to get this accomplished. Let's do it!

[ProBlue33]

You just don't get it. The goal is not to deal McCain a major blow. It is to turn away from this false dichotomy that is being presented to us entirely. Obama does not stand for non-interventionism, at home or abroad. He does not stand against the Patriot Act. He does not stand against socialism. He does not stand for freedom.

A vote for him shows that while people are fed up with McCain's brand of authoritarianism, they are not fed up with authoritarianism itself. They just want someone else to tell them where their money will be spent. Someone else to tell them where their kids will be sent to die. Someone else to tell them what to do with their body.

A vote for Obama is nothing more then a vote for someone else that is offering the same things. If you vote for Obama, you are doing nothing to further this movement. I understand that there is a disagreement with people over whether to support Baldwin or Barr, I have come out in support of one of these candidates, but I recognize that both are candidates who stand in opposition to this authoritarianism. A vote for either is something that will further this movement, and this country, because it will show not just a rejection of McCain, but authoritarianism itself.

No you STILL don't get it.
This is where supporters of Ron Paul have to make a very tough choice.

Choose a vote of conscience, with a type of protest vote and feel good that you did it. But your votes don't decide the election or hurt McCain.

OR

Choose to actually make an impact vote especially in purple swing states, and put the vote where it will hurt McCain and the GOP the most. And yes you will feel terrible about your vote. Nobody likes to vote against somebody rather than for somebody.

That is the bottom line

[PlzPeopleWakeUp]

nt

[RoamZero]

No you STILL don't get it.
This is where supporters of Ron Paul have to make a very tough choice.

Choose a vote of conscience, with a type of protest vote and feel good that you did it. But your votes don't decide the election or hurt McCain.

OR

Choose to actually make an impact vote especially in purple swing states, and put the vote where it will hurt McCain and the GOP the most. And yes you will feel terrible about your vote. Nobody likes to vote against somebody rather than for somebody.

That is the bottom line

I think the #1 priority in spreading the message (after the republican convention) will be to get Barr into the debates. Also, voting third party as a protest vote can have a spoiler impact, depending on the circumstances. It really all depends on how things play out after the nominees are settled. If for whatever reason we haven't managed to get Barr into the debates and he's polling incredibly low, then I'm all for an anti-McCain Operation Chaos, even if it means voting for Obama.

[Rangeley]

No you STILL don't get it.
This is where supporters of Ron Paul have to make a very tough choice.

Choose a vote of conscience, with a type of protest vote and feel good that you did it. But your votes don't decide the election or hurt McCain.

OR

Choose to actually make an impact vote especially in purple swing states, and put the vote where it will hurt McCain and the GOP the most. And yes you will feel terrible about your vote. Nobody likes to vote against somebody rather than for somebody.

That is the bottom line
You didn't even address any of my points, you just restated the point I originally responded to. Defeating McCain is not the goal of this movement. It is defeating the authoritarianism present in both major parties. Voting for Obama, someone who stands for the same things as McCain, shows only a personal dislike of McCain - not a major political difference. Because politically, they are very similar.

Voting for someone who does differ greatly when it comes to politics shows it is not something as petty as a personal dislike, which is the reason so many other Republicans will be voting Obama over him. It will show it is a genuine disagreement on politics - a refusal to vote for a candidate who does not stand for liberty. It will show both parties that if they want our vote, they cant have candidates who do not stand for it.

To rephrase your choices:

Choose to vote for Obama and show you do not oppose authoritarianism - only McCain's specific brand. You dont mind being overtaxed, you dont mind your rights being taken away, you just want this person and not McCain doing it. Afterall, he is so much more charismatic and seems like a nice guy.

OR

Choose a vote of conscience, by voting for someone who you agree with. Your vote will stand as a rejection of the false dichotomy presented by the two major parties.

Tough choice? Hardly.

[Imperial]

I do not like Obama or McCain. However, we have to pick our foes ONE at a time.

You cannot destroy the system without being in it. So, to be able to bring the message of liberty, we need a position from where the media cannot ignore us.

This is the simple fact of it: Like it or not, either Obama or McCain will be in the White House come January(maybe Clinton). Whereever you vote, it had just better not be McCain.

If you vote for one of the 3rd Party-Conservatives(Barr or Baldwin), that is what the media will call a vote against McCain. If you vote for Obama, it is a vote against McCain. Either way, do what you feel is right.

JUST NEVER VOTE MCCAIN.

We cannot destroy the establishment in one fell blow. We have to be smart about it. Ron Paul has acted as Gandhi: give the guide and a plank to jump off of. Now we must be practical, and pull apart the system bit by bit.

[Rangeley]

I do not like Obama or McCain. However, we have to pick our foes ONE at a time.

You cannot destroy the system without being in it. So, to be able to bring the message of liberty, we need a position from where the media cannot ignore us.

This is the simple fact of it: Like it or not, either Obama or McCain will be in the White House come January(maybe Clinton). Whereever you vote, it had just better not be McCain.

If you vote for one of the 3rd Party-Conservatives(Barr or Baldwin), that is what the media will call a vote against McCain. If you vote for Obama, it is a vote against McCain. Either way, do what you feel is right.

JUST NEVER VOTE MCCAIN.

We cannot destroy the establishment in one fell blow. We have to be smart about it. Ron Paul has acted as Gandhi: give the guide and a plank to jump off of. Now we must be practical, and pull apart the system bit by bit.
And you really think the media will give us attention if Obama wins? They will just spin it as "America must be moving leftward - this landslide win is a ringing endorsement of Universal Healthcare, wealth redistribution, and tax hikes!" in so many words.

Voting for someone like Baldwin or Barr has the greatest chance of giving us and our ideas any sort of attention, so if this is all you really care about, then voting for Obama is not the option to take.

[Danke]

http://martinandrade.wordpress.com/

Final Thoughts and Reactions from the Convention
Posted on June 3, 2008 by Marty Andrade

-This state convention got me to really appreciate the 7th district convention I went to earlier this spring. At the 7th, the Ron Paul people were interviewed by the nominating committee and were then approved to run for National Delegate as long as they made it clear who they intended to vote for at the National Convention. The Ron Paul delegates were on the ballot, spoke at the convention and we held an election. Their delegation failed to win. The process was fair and open. The nominating committee chairman (Neil Nelson) made sure the process was fair and the convention was quite orderly and respectful (especially when compared to the state convention).

-Andy Aplikowski and Kevin Ecker both had reactions and suggestions regarding the convention and like usual their writings are filled with common sense (though don’t expect common spellings from Andy).

-Clearly, the chairman of the Republican Party, Ron Carey, was trying to railroad the Ron Paul supporters. The deck was stacked against the Ron Paul delegates. Their slate for the national ballot was not approved (based on ambiguous rules). The adopted rules were ignored to allow Pawlenty and Coleman to become delegates without having to meet in Rochester (as the rules states). Basically, Carey attempted to orchestrate the entire convention.

-Frankly, I don’t think this is the kind of convention John McCain would have approved of. He would have wanted a fair and open process which respected the rights of the body to decide business however they pleased. I’m sure members of the MNGOP will say “the will of the majority were reflected in the results of the convention” but I would point out the rights of the minority were trampled on, and beyond that, the rights of the body as a whole were trampled on.

Nominations from the floor should be allowed if a majority of the body agree. People should be allowed to vote for only whom they wish to, if a ballot has twenty names and you can vote for 10 but you only like five people you should be allowed to vote for only the five you like. Forcing people to vote for those they disapprove upon penalty of ballot invalidation is wrong. Not allowing people to write-in a name is another issue.

-There were two people who chaired the meeting. A man and a woman, I will refer to the male chairman as simply “the Chairman” and the female chairman as “the Madam Chairman” (backstory).

-The Chairman had a clear agenda but had enough self respect to be fair and he would even attempt to be objective every now and then, though clearly he failed. Madam Chairman was a different story. She wasn’t very good at all, and at times it was clear she was on the brink of losing her cool. Whenever Madam Chairman was running the meeting I was thinking “there’s blood in the water” but the Ron Paul people didn’t have anyone with a clear knowledge of ParlyPro or any real plan of attack regarding the convention. A bad chairman is an opportunity if you know what you’re doing. Both Chairmen spent way too much time talking to the parliamentarian. You’re running a meeting, make a decision. It’s okay to peak over at the parliamentarian once in a while but having conferences every time someone had a point of order was tiresome and unnecessary. If you don’t know what you’re doing pass the gavel to someone who does.

-Ron Carey got to his position by leading his own little insurgency against the previous MNGOP chairman. He plays hardball, a cliché anyone in politics needs to understand intimately. Clearly, Carey has no sympathy for people who aren’t willing to push back in a political fight.

-The Ron Paul People (RPP from now on) weren’t prepared at all for this convention. They should have expected to get railroaded and they should have been ready to play hardball with Ron Carey. They clearly didn’t have anyone who knew parlypro enough to lawyerball. Some organization would have gone a long way. First, two or three people should have been reviewing the MNGOP Constitution, Standing Rules and Robert’s Rules to find all the possible motions they could make. Next, they complained about not getting on the microphones often enough. Come on, there’s an easy answer to that, always have someone in queue for each microphone. Make sure those people have one or two motions in case they actually get called upon.

Incredibly, there were a few times when the chairman would actually say something like “To do what you want to you would have to make a motion to suspend the rules” or “What you would have to do is move to appeal the chair” and guess what? They never did what the chairman suggested. All you need to say, when a chairman lays out a plan of action for you, is “so moved.”

-Some other ideas the RPP could have used included: making their own ballots for national delegates and moving to use their “fair” ballots instead of the other pre-prepared ballots. I would have also held a poll outside the convention where delegates could vote on a “fair” ballot that included the RPP slate. A petition would have also been an easier idea, asking delegates to sign a petition stating the convention was held in an unfair manner. There are lots of stunts which can be pulled which can call into question the legitimacy of the results of a convention.

-Another tactic to use when you have enough people (and the RPP did) is to make sure at least one or two of your people always votes with the opposition. Have witnesses. This will allow you to move to reconsider a motion that doesn’t go your way.

-Someone asked me about the “illegal lit pieces” and I found out from one of the sergeants at arms that all lit pieces needed an address to be “legal” as per FEC rules. It’s another example of how stupid campaign laws are and how they truly are an abridgement of 1st amendment rights.

-Said it before: Learn the Rules, Play to Win. I have an entire list of tactics and strategies for meetings and conventions, which I will eventually publish.

-I believe in a fair and open process which protects the rights of everyone in a specific body to be heard. I believe in the rights of the entire group to function as it pleases and the rights of the minority to be heard. Meetings aren’t just about the will of the majority.

-FYI, Morton Blackwell was the youngest National Delegate for Barry Goldwater and wrote a piece designed to help people become national delegates. It’s informative and a candidate for the Conservative Canon.

-Just as an example of how easy it is to take specific votes out of context (a common campaign literature tactic) one could easily portray me as a flip flopper at this convention. I voted for Pawlenty to be a national delegate, then I voted in favor of suspending the rules but I voted against confirming my own vote for Pawlenty. Yet my goals during the convention were pretty clear, I wanted a fair and open process and I wanted to get my initial slate (all these are available in my convention notes posts) elected as national delegates. I never wavered from my values but when taken out of context it looks like I contradicted myself (I also voted for and against adjournment).

Specific votes shouldn’t be taken out of context, all the votes must be aggregated and put into context to come to a certain conclusion about the voter.

[Lucille]

Thanks! I like that guy, and I think there's a lot more within the GOP like him - GOP regulars who are pissed off at the way the GOP establishment is trying to run things which is shrinking and destroying the party. He gets it, and I think many others are starting to. There will be a flood of people like him in November.

I like him, too! (I bookmarked his blog.) I certainly hope you're right on that last point!

Is Minnesota a Swing State? (http://joerepya.typepad.com/eaglesnest/)


Look at the ages and passion that those in the crowd waiting for Obama. They demonstrate just how energized their side feels for their candidate. Where in the MN GOP do we see that sort of passion and excitement? Oh wait, we saw that in the Ron Paul people. Youthful exuberance and passionate dedication to work hard for a candidate, but "these people" were not welcome last weekend at Rochester. Now granted there are some weird people associated with the Paulite's, but I could say the same thing about some of the establishment GOP folks as well. Every candidate had an extreme element or two. That went for the Democrats also.

The big difference is that the MN GOP did everything they could to demonize the Paulite's and make them enemy number one. That seems to be the mode of operandi for the MN GOP lately. They have to have an enemy to belittle and marginalize to keep their power base frightened like heck so they will do the establishments bidding.

(The one comment below this blog post was interesting...)