What's worse?

[mdh]

Discuss. :)

[Syren123]

Tough question.
I'd have to go with commie regime because it's outright oppressive. At least with our quasi-capitalist pseudofreedoms, there's some wiggle room to do what you want if you make the effort to stay under the radar.

[nullvalu]

god that's like asking how you'd prefer to die: by fire or by starvation... i can't answer

[Wendi]

What's the difference between a wolf, and a wolf in sheep's clothing? At least the shepherd can recognize the one not in disguise and protect his flocks accordingly.

[constituent]

i think they're all on the same side and just laughing at us.

[Slugg]

I think the pseudo-capitalistic regime is worse. I can't remember who said it (I'm sure someone here knows) "No one is more enslaved than those who think themselves free."

[maggiebott]

agreed...the capitalist regime is far worse than Chavez but neither leads to freedom.

[ShaneC]

I'd rather be a commie than a fascist, but really, I'd rather be FREE!

:(

I don't like the options...

Give me Liberty or give me Death.

[BuddyRey]

Out of the two evils, I'd definitely pick Chavez or Castro-style socialism over a Hitler or Moussolini-style fascist plutocracy. It would suck, but at least we'd have the free healthcare going for us!

[freetek]

That is like choosing to be fried with a blow torch or boiled slowly; both will get the job done.

I guess communism might be my first choice since we have seen that it will collapse on its own eventually; the NWO? Not too sure about that decaying since it can rely on the existing power structure to insure its growth.

Lousy choice - let's work to get the good doctor elected and not have either!

Steve A.

[mdh]

Hey Steve! Great to see you here. I'll see you tomorrow, hopefully we can line up a reasonably large grill. It'd be a whole lot of work to get mine packed up and take it down there in my car otherwise I'd do that.

[cjhowe]

I think the pseudo-capitalistic regime is worse. I can't remember who said it (I'm sure someone here knows) "No one is more enslaved than those who think themselves free."

It was Goethe....

None are so hopelessly enslaved as those who falsely believe they are free

I prefer Sartre's view of freedom.

The essential consequence of our earlier remarks is that man being condemned to be free carries the weight of the whole world on his shoulders; he is responsible for the world and for himself as a way of being.

In pseudo-capitalism or outright communism, it's you're own damned fault, take responsibility.

[SwordOfShannarah]

Communist. Because it will crumble of its own accord more quickly and perhaps with less bloodshed- although Stalin makes that a tough call.

[paulitics]

I think you can be more lazy with communism. Fascism would suck because you are worked to death for greedy robber barrons for pennies on the hour. You lose your freedoms, but at least you can eat without working 15 hour days.

[J4ck]

Venezuela is a -real- democracy. No sign of 'communism' yet. Don't listen to faux news. Chavez was the best thing that could happen to the people of Venezuela, i consider him a hero.

[J4ck]

I'm so fed up with anti-Venezuelan propaganda. Anyone heard of Mission Milagro here?

"Mission Miracle, the three-year old Venezuelan-Cuban anti-blindness program initially for Latin America and the Caribbean, has already restored the sight of about 700,000 people from 30 countries and aims to restore the sight of about 6,000,000 blind people in the region by 2015.

The services that Mission Miracle offers to its patients are free.

Mission Miracle has drawn quite of bit of attention from the revolutionary and progressive media. With only a handful of exceptions, the bourgeois media, both in Latin America and the USA, have largely ignored the astonishingly successful ophthalmologic program. Ironically, it is the extreme reactionary sector of the US bourgeois media that shows the most interest in the program.

One of the partial exceptions to this non-coverage or bigoted coverage of Mission Miracle in the bourgeois media is John Otis' piece in the Houston chronicle, a moderate bourgeois newspaper, which gives a surprisingly factual account of the tremendous success of Mission Miracle with the customary or inescapable anti-socialist bias, mandatory in the capitalist press, largely held in the background of the story.

The Mission Miracle has, among others things, medical, political, and moral sides."

This is only one example of Venezuelan politics, i could give dozens of these examples. In a fair world he (and Castro) would have received the nobel peace prize and the western societies should be -ashamed- that these things are initiated by third world countries.

[cjhowe]

Venezuela is a -real- democracy. No sign of 'communism' yet. Don't listen to faux news. Chavez was the best thing that could happen to the people of Venezuela, i consider him a hero.

I don't know, moving to nationalize the oil industry and mandating that in order to extract oil in Venezuela, you must enter into a joint venture where the government has a 60% interest sure sounds like communism. Changing the export tax is one thing and would have been pro-Venezuela and accomplished many of the pro-Chavez goals.

[mdh]

I know people in Venezuela who are radical capitalists and oppose socialism. They are scared for their lives because Chavez really is clamping down hardcore on dissenting thought. It's not pretty there for most people.

[J4ck]

@cjhowe
Nationalizing the oil industry is the same in Venezuela like abolishing the fed in the US. It's complicated but you need this to control the money. (which is, as you know, the only way to be a sovereign state)

@mdh
Please watch this movie:
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

It is not the rich people who live in danger.

[Captain Shays]

Its better in America by far. Chevez not only nationalized the oil industry but he also nationalized the media. Now the money and the information is controlled by their government.

At least here we still have a chance to change things. Chavez also changed their Constitution and effectively made himself to be a dictator. Someone said that Venezuala is a democracy as if thats a good thing. Well not according to Thomas Jefferson who said that democracy is mob rule and that its tyranny of the majority where 51% of the people can vote away the rights of 49% of the people.

Ben Franklin said that democracy is like two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for supper. Liberty is like two wolves and a well armed lamb contesting the vote.

Someone also said that "you need to control the money" and in Venezuala its likened to "control of the federal reserve".
Not at all the same thing. "you" need to control the money alright, as long as you're saying "you" personally and not the government.

[constituent]

Chavez is a puppet for the NWO.

everthing is propaganda.

[foofighter20x]

god that's like asking how you'd prefer to die: by fire or by starvation... i can't answer

lol

Who you going to vote for? Hitler or Stalin?

Which Menendez brother would you rather live with? Erik or Lyle?

Who would you rather be killed by? Ted Bundy or Jeffrey Dahmer?

[foofighter20x]

@cjhowe
Nationalizing the oil industry is the same in Venezuela like abolishing the fed in the US. It's complicated but you need this to control the money. (which is, as you know, the only way to be a sovereign state)

@mdh
Please watch this movie:
http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144

It is not the rich people who live in danger.

if you want to quote multiple posts, use the multi-quote button on the bottom right (the one with the plus sign).

just click the button to turn in red in each post you wish to quote, and after you select them all, hit the quote button or the post reply button. :)

[J4ck]

@Captain Shays
That's bull. Chavez liberated the media. Nothing in the media got nationalized.

"Chavez also changed their Constitution and effectively made himself to be a dictator."
He did the exact opposite, he gave the people the power to impeach the president.

"need to control the money alright, as long as you're saying "you" personally and not the government."
The (true) capitalistic aproach is to give the money directly to the people, the socialist idea is to give them the money through the state by complete control over the government. (unions etc.)
This was one goal of the constitutional change.
In fact we do not know if socialism works because we have never seen true socialism. Not in Venezuela nor anywhere else. What Chavez did was building a free market for small-middle companies and giving the power over the core industry to the people. (through nationalizing and control over the government)

Now Venezuela is economicly more stable than ever, the people gain wealth and the country is developing new industries which have nothing to do with their oil sector.
+Chavez is building 50 new universities right now. He wants to educate the people and then let them decide which way to choose. (through real democracy not that oligarch crap the US have)
Sure socialism is the goal, but if it doesn't work it will be changed by the people democraticly. Great isn't it? :P

[Captain Shays]

Caracas, Venezuela
EARLIER THIS YEAR, the U.S. media was atwitter with coverage of the protests against ousting Saddam Hussein. At the same time, just weeks before the war in Iraq began, a record-setting one and a half million Venezuelans marched in protest against a law proposed by the president of Venezuela, Lt. Col. Hugo Chavez. Simultaneous marches against Chavez took place across the world. It was the largest peaceful protest in Latin American history.
These protests did not register even a blip in the international and U.S. media. There were no page-one articles or photo-spreads about this widespread rejection of the Chavez regime. That the international media failed to cover these events is particularly dispiriting, since the protest was organized specifically to support the Venezuelan media, which has been tirelessly exposing human rights violations by the Chavez regime.
Despite being followed, harassed, arrested, tear-gassed, fire-bombed, shot at, and even killed by Chavez supporters and party members, journalists here have bravely persevered in their jobs and serve as the only effective check to arbitrary government power. Given that the courts, congress, military and the executive branch are firmly under Chavez's control, it's little wonder that in poll after poll, the Venezuelan media ranks as the most respected institution in the country.
Since January, using a presidential decree, Chavez has interrupted regular television and radio broadcasts on 60 separate occasions, forcing all media to transmit his hours-long tirades and pro-government propaganda.
http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/002/785ruylo.asp?pg=1

[J4ck]

lmao that's total bull.

real story here:

http://www.google.de/search?hl=de&q=chavez+the+movie&btnG=Google-Suche&meta=

[J4ck]

btw...the weekly standard??
shouldn't a Ron Paul supporter know it better?

[J4ck]

oops sry here:

http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=5832390545689805144