If Ron Paul gets the nomination and with Bob Barr already chosen as an LP candidate..

[Akus]

does anyone else think that our vote is in danger of being dissolved in between two parties?

[brandon]

He wont get the nomination, and if he does no one will vote for Barr.

[torchbearer]

If he gets the nomination, Barr should drop and support Ron.
If it doesn't happen, Paul's people should help Barr.

[OptionsTrader]

Paul's people should help Barr.

Why?

[ARealConservative]

Why?

Did you read the Manifesto?

I'm guessing no. Barr was singled out for being a good guy in this book.

[torchbearer]

Why?

Because Ron won't be on the ballot.
Because he would be our best shot at getting the 10% threshold to get into a debate.
Because our options are running out for 2008.
Because he brings with him a team of hard core libertarians, one being a friend of mine, Steve Dasbach, who is a long time supporter of Ron Paul and a member of this forum.

[qh4dotcom]

Why?

I don't like Barr, but here's why

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1475383&postcount=5

Just like Ron Paul, Barr will be spreading the message about liberty....that's WAY more important than whatever he did in the past that you don't agree with.

As Anthony Robbins said "The past does not equal the future"

[torchbearer]

Did you read the Manifesto?

I'm guessing no. Barr was singled out for being a good guy in this book.

Don't tell him that! That doesn't fit his agenda. ;)
Barr Bashing is the "in" thing because he isn't the pure Ron Paul.
No one will hold a candle to Ron.. maybe Rand, but that's about it.

[MRoCkEd]

where in the book does he talk about barr

[OptionsTrader]

that's WAY more important than whatever he did in the past that you don't agree with.

As Anthony Robbins said "The past does not equal the future"



You have the right to your opinion. My opinion is that any Congressman that voted for the patriot act or the iraq war belongs in prison, not the white house.

[UtahApocalypse]

You have the right to your opinion. My opinion is that any Congressman that voted for the patriot act or the iraq war belongs in prison, not the white house.

Agreed, actions speak louder then words. Barr has spoke of freedom, liberty, and the constitution.... his votes though don't follow it.

[ARealConservative]

where in the book does he talk about barr

page 44 ~ "Today, few Republicans in public life have been courageous or principled enough to speak out against a clear abuse of power. (Among them are Bruce Fein.....,and former Congressman Bob Barr)"

[Maltheus]

I'm kind of surprised Barr took it. There were better libertarian options. I'm leaning towards Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party at this point. I'm not religious or anything, but he seems a little truer to the cause than Barr. But I guess I haven't looked into it too deeply yet.

[fr33domfightr]

I'm kind of surprised Barr took it. There were better libertarian options. I'm leaning towards Chuck Baldwin and the Constitution Party at this point. I'm not religious or anything, but he seems a little truer to the cause than Barr. But I guess I haven't looked into it too deeply yet.

I would go with Barr. He may not be as truer to the cause as you say (at 100%), but wouldn't you be happy with 80% if they stand a better chance of getting elected?

Don't think of this as all or nothing. Incremental is better than nothing. Swaying the American public will be hard enough with a 3rd party candidate. Barr has more name and face recognition than Baldwin at the Federal level.

I'll be watching and participating in events for Ron Paul, but I will also support Barr. When it comes down to the wire, if Paul isn't nominated (which I don't expect), I'll be voting for freedom. I'll be voting to win!! I'll be voting for Barr!!

FF

[Maltheus]

I would go with Barr. He may not be as truer to the cause as you say (at 100%), but wouldn't you be happy with 80% if they stand a better chance of getting elected?

Don't think of this as all or nothing. Incremental is better than nothing. Swaying the American public will be hard enough with a 3rd party candidate. Barr has more name and face recognition than Baldwin at the Federal level.
FF


No libertarian has a chance at getting elected. If we're to be blamed for the Republican defeat this fall (and you know that blame is coming), then I want to say I was sticking to my principles, rather than merely sticking it to the Republican party.

And if incremental is better than nothing, then why not vote the Republican party line? They are incrementally better than the Democrats. If you go that route, then you'll only ever get the absolute minimum required to secure your vote. I supported Ron Paul because he was principled, more than any other reason. That's what I'm looking for in the next candidate I support.

[qh4dotcom]

You have the right to your opinion. My opinion is that any Congressman that voted for the patriot act or the iraq war belongs in prison, not the white house.


Ok, ok...you've got a point...I said I don't like Barr....but now you got a tough, tough choice to make...send Barr to prison...or send Barr to spread the message about liberty....even better send him to prison after he spreads the message about liberty and loses the general election.

Don't forget about what you said here

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1475620&postcount=3

Time for Barr to do what you said....educate

[ARealConservative]

No libertarian has a chance at getting elected. If we're to be blamed for the Republican defeat this fall (and you know that blame is coming), then I want to say I was sticking to my principles, rather than merely sticking it to the Republican party.

And if incremental is better than nothing, then why not vote the Republican party line? They are incrementally better than the Democrats. If you go that route, then you'll only ever get the absolute minimum required to secure your vote. I supported Ron Paul because he was principled, more than any other reason. That's what I'm looking for in the next candidate I support.

We are attempting to force the republicans to get incrementally better, not to vote for them because they are slightly better.

We need to stick it to the Republican Party. That is truly the goal of this revolution.

The gap between the Libertarians and GOP is too great. We are in a situation where the two major parties are closer together in idealogy and simply compete with each other for votes while being able to ignore us altogether. Historically the right has been moving left to steal votes while the left keeps moving further left to stay distinct. People stuck in the two party debate that finally look around to leave find us on this distant island in cookoo land because they both drifted left while we did not. In reality they drifted into no man's land, but it takes a while to fully wake up and see the full truth.

[berrybunches]

page 44 ~ "Today, few Republicans in public life have been courageous or principled enough to speak out against a clear abuse of power. (Among them are Bruce Fein.....,and former Congressman Bob Barr)"

I took that as meaning that they were of the many that do not speak out. I guess I read it wrong.

[0zzy]

I took that as meaning that they were of the many that do not speak out. I guess I read it wrong.

Rofl, very wrong. Bruce was on Paul's campaign. Watch Bob and Bruce in action:

Bob Barr + Bruce Fein: The American Freedom Agenda (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8062710009569840303&q=%22bob+barr%22+%22bruce+fein%22&ei=ZTc7SOb8Eo2w-wG1rPzxAw)

[Bradley in DC]

Rofl, very wrong. Bruce was on Paul's campaign.

IS.

[Dave39168]

Barr is no Ron Paul, but I think I will support him. He is 100x better than HillaryMcainObama.

Also i'm gonna quote the post q4hdotcom linked to in case you didn't click it b/c it sums it up pretty well.


I'm not huge Barr fan but his notoriety will get hundreds of thousands of people exposed to the Libertarian Party that would've NEVER looked at it before.

He's not a "pure" libertarian but pure libertarians are what has kept the party in the gutter since it's inception. You have to be realistic and look at this from the general dumbed down public's perspective. They will will not support a pure libertarian overnight. That's too big of a plunge for people. They have to be spoon fed a little at a time. This Libertarian ticket will get ALOT more exposure, thus empowering the party which over time will result in ALOT more people becoming "pure" libertarians.

You take what you can get right now. It's not like they have a chance to win anyway. Our number 1 goal at this juncture is exposure to the liberty message.

[Akus]

wow, three pages of nothing but clusterfuck and only first two replies somewhat deal with what I was asking

[torchbearer]

If he gets the nomination, Barr should drop and support Ron.
If it doesn't happen, Paul's people should help Barr.

I answered it early on... there really wasn't much more to add.

[qh4dotcom]

Barr is no Ron Paul, but I think I will support him. He is 100x better than HillaryMcainObama.

Also i'm gonna quote the post q4hdotcom linked to in case you didn't click it b/c it sums it up pretty well.

Wow...looks I accidentally converted someone.

I don't like Barr and I am still undecided as to how much to support him....but for the sake of liberty, I'm glad he's in the race.

[qh4dotcom]

wow, three pages of nothing but clusterfuck and only first two replies somewhat deal with what I was asking

brandonyates had the correct answer

[nc4rp]

Barr was one of those guys on TV saying "the three candidates" on national news. For that he can have one of my cat terds instead of my vote.

But yea, the same guys that positioned Nader there for Bush to win 2000 positioned Barr there to take the Ron Paul votes FROM Obama and to give real democrats an alternative to take votes away from Obama. (if you can follow that line of reasoning).

they "bill it" as a danger for McCain losing votes, but rest assured, its part of the neocan plan of a one - two punch at reducing Mcains opponents' votes. a few proper hacks here and there and maybe a judge decision and a few blatent cheats and McCain can slide away with the win. watch.

[G-Wohl]

Barr was one of those guys on TV saying "the three candidates" on national news. For that he can have one of my cat terds instead of my vote.

Well yeah, but Ron Paul also talks about "the three candidates."

[revolutionary8]

Don't tell him that! That doesn't fit his agenda. ;)
Barr Bashing is the "in" thing because he isn't the pure Ron Paul.
No one will hold a candle to Ron.. maybe Rand, but that's about it.
Oh Bull.
People are Barr bashing because he "wants to reconsider parts of the patriot act", he voted for the formation of the Department of Homeland Security. He voted for the medicaid bill, he voted for No Child Left Behind, he is ex-CIA and was a major backer of the War on Drugs, he has never endorsed Ron Paul, shall I go on?
I am the OPPOSITE of "trendy" and completely "out", and I have major concerns with his voting record. I could care less what is "In" as a matter of fact, that is why I am supporting Dr. NO!

[revolutionary8]

Barr was one of those guys on TV saying "the three candidates" on national news. For that he can have one of my cat terds instead of my vote.

But yea, the same guys that positioned Nader there for Bush to win 2000 positioned Barr there to take the Ron Paul votes FROM Obama and to give real democrats an alternative to take votes away from Obama. (if you can follow that line of reasoning).

they "bill it" as a danger for McCain losing votes, but rest assured, its part of the neocan plan of a one - two punch at reducing Mcains opponents' votes. a few proper hacks here and there and maybe a judge decision and a few blatent cheats and McCain can slide away with the win. watch.
The Nader love here trips me out.

[FindLiberty]

The vote divided issue is not as important to me as the Libertarian educational message aspect for the media manipulated masses. I see it as a sort of "See, I told you so" hard knocks education. Whoever wins is gonna' take the heat for the troubles ahead over the next two to four years... Maybe the message will be remembered as the alternative path. We can remind them in our 2010 and 2012 campaign ads.

This party (divided vote) power stuff is a big part of the problems, i.e., Demolicans and Republicrats are really one and the same but the media whips up a big deal, big diff over nothing, tricking the vote for the lesser of two evils. Constitutional/LP are too weak to be dangerous yet. People are easily divided (OP's point) between issues like religion and drugs, etc. so this is used to help keep the LP/Const party a non-contender.

[revolutionary8]

The vote divided issue is not as important to me as the Libertarian educational message aspect for the media manipulated masses. I see it as a sort of "See, I told you so" hard knocks education. Whoever wins is gonna' take the heat for the troubles ahead over the next two to four years... Maybe the message will be remembered as the alternative path. We can remind them in our 2010 and 2012 campaign ads.

This party (divided vote) power stuff is a big part of the problems, i.e., Demolicans and Republicrats are really one and the same but the media whips up a big deal, big diff over nothing, tricking the vote for the lesser of two evils. Constitutional/LP are too weak to be dangerous yet. People are easily divided (OP's point) between issues like religion and drugs, etc. so this is used to help keep the LP/Const party a non-contender.
Interesting Theory.
I can see what you are saying. I see complete division here, and it is really starting to bother me. I hate being told that I am "going nowhere" if I vote CP when in reality I am in a hand basket headed straight to hell if I vote against my conscience. The same can be said for those who support Bob Barr- if they feel that voting Bob Barr is voting their conscience, they shouldn't be told that the LP is "going nowhere".
Operation Herd Cats is doomed to fail.
I had stars in my eyes when I thought there was a chance the two parties would come together and actually help each other, balance each other out, keep each other in check, while bringing people together. *sigh*

[revolutionary8]

We are attempting to force the republicans to get incrementally better, not to vote for them because they are slightly better.

We need to stick it to the Republican Party. That is truly the goal of this revolution.

The gap between the Libertarians and GOP is too great. We are in a situation where the two major parties are closer together in idealogy and simply compete with each other for votes while being able to ignore us altogether. Historically the right has been moving left to steal votes while the left keeps moving further left to stay distinct. People stuck in the two party debate that finally look around to leave find us on this distant island in cookoo land because they both drifted left while we did not. In reality they drifted into no man's land, but it takes a while to fully wake up and see the full truth.

Since WHEN did "Truly sticking it to the Republican Party" become "the goal of this revolution"?
Source please. Planet as well. lol.
Last I heard, we were trying to win The Republican Party the presidency.
The Republican Party Platform is good, Fabian Socialists who run America, bad.

[ARealConservative]

Since WHEN did "Truly sticking it to the Republican Party" become "the goal of this revolution"?
Source please. Planet as well. lol.
Last I heard, we were trying to win The Republican Party the presidency.

That was the goal from day one.

You know all those votes in the house where Ron votes all by himself? He is right each and every time on those lone dissent votes.

We will punish the republican party until they move the base way back to the right and Ron Paul will not be alone casting those votes.

Like it or not, the neo-con's are the party - and the goal was always to stick it to them. I donated $2,000 and a ton of energy knowing damn well we weren't going to win it all back in a single election season.

[revolutionary8]

That was the goal from day one.

You know all those votes in the house where Ron votes all by himself? He is right each and every time on those lone dissent votes.

We will punish the republican party until they move the base way back to the right and Ron Paul will not be alone casting those votes.

Like it or not, the neo-con's are the party - and the goal was always to stick it to them. I donated $2,000 and a ton of energy knowing damn well we weren't going to win it all back in a single election season.
It isn't just the neocons as they are no different from he neoliberals.
I edited my post for clarification, I apologize for coming across so harshly.
The GOP is dying. Hopefully it will be us that rise from the ashes. Same goes for the LP. The CP, I don't think they have any Fabian Socialists yet AFAIK.

[stevedasbach]

does anyone else think that our vote is in danger of being dissolved in between two parties?

Highly unlikely. I just got done helping Bob Barr win the LP nomination, but if Ron Paul somehow manages to get the Republican nomination, that's where the vast majority of libertarian votes will go. Dr. Paul could have easily won the LP nomination if he had wanted it.

[nc4rp]

Oh Bull.
People are Barr bashing because he "wants to reconsider parts of the patriot act", he voted for the formation of the Department of Homeland Security. He voted for the medicaid bill, he voted for No Child Left Behind, he is ex-CIA and was a major backer of the War on Drugs, he has never endorsed Ron Paul, shall I go on?
I am the OPPOSITE of "trendy" and completely "out", and I have major concerns with his voting record. I could care less what is "In" as a matter of fact, that is why I am supporting Dr. NO!



ex-CIA.

suuuuuure.... likely story that hes not still a fully paid agent.