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UnReconstructed
05-25-2008, 03:07 PM
What do you think of this ticket?

WRellim
05-25-2008, 03:08 PM
blech... :p

Bradley in DC
05-25-2008, 03:09 PM
What do you think of this ticket?

where do I get my yard sign?

ARealConservative
05-25-2008, 03:09 PM
Root is the one guy I didn't care for.

Bruno
05-25-2008, 03:11 PM
One thing is for sure, they will together get more press than any other Libertarian ticket would have.
While not the strongest ticket, they should together spread the overall message.

crazyfingers
05-25-2008, 03:11 PM
http://www.baldwin2008.com/

porcupine
05-25-2008, 06:18 PM
One thing is for sure, they will together get more press than any other Libertarian ticket would have.
While not the strongest ticket, they should together spread the overall message.

Yep. They'll get much more press, and might even get into the debates.

itshappening
05-25-2008, 07:09 PM
two formidable campaigners, i dont know about the debates but they should run a good campaign and advance many issues that a lot of people on these boards care about

Kludge
05-25-2008, 07:35 PM
Luckily I ordered pro-Barr shirts well before the convention. I'll wear them and try to disassociate Root from the campaign.

Aratus
05-25-2008, 07:38 PM
if what i think has happened...actually has gone the way i think it has... the question mark in this topic's header and/or first posting needs to be replaced by an exclamation point!

Aratus
05-25-2008, 07:39 PM
its barr/root!!! ~~~~ thoughts... everyone?

HenryKnoxFineBooks
05-25-2008, 07:41 PM
I'm all for it!

jaybone
05-25-2008, 07:51 PM
I watched the debate last nite, I had never seen or heard any of the candidates before.
My impressions were that Barr was the most polished "Romney-esque" in style only, not substance. And I really liked Root's energy, he seemed the most passionate of the bunch.
I had no problem with the others, they were preaching to the choir in my living room, but I think it is a good ticket.
I almost choked when Gravel made a comment about something "eroding our democracy"
If a Libertarian candidate does not yet know the difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic, then I have no use for him.

I was a LP member for 15 years, switched to vote for RP. I'd like to see the GOP turn around, but I have been reminded that the two party system is part of the PROBLEM.
It may be more expedient to steer the GOP back on course, but it would be healthier for the Republic to break the shackes and elect a Libertarian.

Libertarians are harder to herd than cats, now that the nomination has been made, I really hope for once that everybody gets behind Barr.
If there is one thing we have learned from the R3volution, it is not about the man, but the message, and Bob has a good message to speak.

anaconda
05-25-2008, 07:56 PM
Why not have the runner up, Mary Ruwart, be the running mate?

Kludge
05-26-2008, 03:36 AM
Why not have the runner up, Mary Ruwart, be the running mate?

Rumor has it that she turned down being VP to such an "impure" candidate.

vodalian
05-26-2008, 04:21 AM
I'll never understand how people who supports Ron Paul's vision could support Barr. It's like people don't even bother looking into the history of those they cheer on.. Which could explain why Obama is as popular as he is. Kinda sad really.

Kludge
05-26-2008, 04:26 AM
I'll never understand how people who supports Ron Paul's vision could support Barr. It's like people don't even bother looking into the history of those they cheer on.. Which could explain why Obama is as popular as he is. Kinda sad really.


Oh please. Ron Paul is a conservative libertarian. If you've done any research at all on Barr, if he didn't argue on grounds of libertarianism, he argued that it was the right of the states to decide (conservatism).

OptionsTrader
05-26-2008, 04:31 AM
I'll never understand how people who supports Ron Paul's vision could support Barr. It's like people don't even bother looking into the history of those they cheer on.. Which could explain why Obama is as popular as he is. Kinda sad really.

I am looking forward to Lew Rockwell's blog postings on Monday. It usually echoes the voice of what you can imagine is a younger more pissed off Paul.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/

vodalian
05-26-2008, 04:43 AM
Oh please. Ron Paul is a conservative libertarian. If you've done any research at all on Barr, if he didn't argue on grounds of libertarianism, he argued that it was the right of the states to decide (conservatism).

Obviously you have done no research on Bob Barr, otherwise you would know that he constantly pushed for complete FEDERAL prohibition of medical Marijuana and went out of his way to block attempts for STATES to legalize it for medical purposes, you would know that he voted for the patriot act, you would know that he voted for the war in Iraq, you would know that he authored the Defense of Marriage Act act on the FEDERAL LEVEL, you would know that he proposed to BAN Wicca in the military. Need I share with you the definition of 'libertarianism'?

Kludge
05-26-2008, 04:54 AM
Marijuana: Bob Barr to Lobby for Marijuana Policy Project (http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/479/bob_barr_joins_mpp)

Bob Barr attempts to defend referring to our troops in Iraq as an occupying army (http://www.scottsmb.com/2008/05/15/neal-and-bob-barr-spar-over-war-in-iraq/)

Barr: There are going to be differences with my colleagues in the Libertarian Party. I can’t imagine there is ever going to be a party I agree with 100 percent of time. What I’m interested in is a party honestly committed to liberty and true checks and balances on government power. That’s something lacking in our current party system. With regard to gay marriage and the Federal Marriage Amendment, in my view the FMA does nothing except to protect liberty of citizens of each state on what basis they want to recognize marriage. Are there some libertarians who believe differently? I’m sure there are, and I’m sure we’ll engage in some debates down the road. I’m not going to let nuanced differences on aspects of particular policies stand in the way of the most important mission. That’s ensuring our liberties and protecting the Constitution.

(By the way, government has no right to recognize marriage of any kind)


"Bob Barr is the best Libertarian Presidential candidate for 2008. Running on libertarian campaign platform of cutting government spending, defending Constitutional liberties, and ending the War in Iraq, Barr has the potential to spread this message to the millions of Americans who favor smaller government and expanded personal liberty. This is a time for Libertarians to run specificially against the failed Republican policies of the last eight years, out of control spending, the destruction of the Bill of Rights and separation of powers, and a foreign policy of preventative war and nation building.
Bob Barr is the candidate for 2008."

-Bill Woolsey
Economics Professor at The Citadel

Reason: Do you regret voting for the USA PATRIOT Act?
Barr: I do. I was hoping at the time that it would not be used as a floor but as a ceiling. But it's been a taking-off point for expanded authority in a number of areas. Perhaps most important is the fact that the administration seems to be pushing its application as broadly as it can in nonterrorism cases. And despite the assurances by the administration that Section 215, which relates to obtaining records from libraries and other repositories, is not being used, the fact is it is being used.

WASHINGTON, DC (http://www.witchnet.org/barr.cfm)-- U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) has demanded an end to the taxpayer-supported practice of witchcraft on military bases. Barr's request came in response to reports that chaplains at Fort Hood, and other bases, are sanctioning, if not supporting, the practice of witchcraft as a "religion" by soldiers on military bases. "This move sets a dangerous precedent that could easily result in the practice of all sorts of bizarre practices being supported by the military under the rubric of ‘religion.' What's next? Will armored divisions be forced to travel with sacrificial animals for Satanic rituals? Will Rastifarians demand the inclusion of ritualistic marijuana cigarettes in their rations?," said Barr, in letters to military and congressional leaders. In support of his request, Barr noted the Supreme Court's decision in Goldman v. Weinberger, 475 U.S. 503 (1986), in which Chief Justice Rehnquist wrote, "[t]he military need not encourage debate or tolerate protest to the extent that such tolerance is required of the civilian state by the First Amendment; to accomplish its mission, the military must foster instinctive obedience, unity, commitment, and esprit de corps..." "A print of the painting, "The Prayer At Valley Forge," depicting George Washington on bended knee, praying in the hard snow at Valley Forge, hangs over the desk in my office. If the practice of witchcraft, such as is allowed now at Fort Hood, is permitted to stand, one wonders what paintings will grace the walls of future generations," Barr concluded in his letters.

moostraks
05-26-2008, 11:02 AM
Obviously you have done no research on Bob Barr, otherwise you would know that he constantly pushed for complete FEDERAL prohibition of medical Marijuana and went out of his way to block attempts for STATES to legalize it for medical purposes, you would know that he voted for the patriot act, you would know that he voted for the war in Iraq, you would know that he authored the Defense of Marriage Act act on the FEDERAL LEVEL, you would know that he proposed to BAN Wicca in the military. Need I share with you the definition of 'libertarianism'?

Aaack!!! I knew there was some reason in the recesses of my mind that there was for my dislike of Barr. Thank you for reminding me....I forgot about his intolerance of Wicca.

Representative Bob Barr's Statements:
U.S. Representative Bob Barr (GA-7) has been a United States Attorney, and currently serves on the House Judiciary, Government Reform and Banking committees. 2

On 1999-MAY-13, he issued a press release titled:

"BARR: CAUSES OF YOUTH VIOLENCE FOUND IN ADULT CULTURE." 3

He lists as one of the causes of youth violence the practice by the U.S. military to permit Wiccan personnel to observe their religious faith. Wicca is a benign, earth-centered religion, which is somewhat similar to Native American Spirituality. A second source of youth violence that he cites is the increasing acceptance by university students of humanism, a secular, non-theistic philosophy with a strong ethical component.

On 1999-MAY-18, he issued a second press release. Copies were delivered to military and congressional leaders. Recipients included Army Secretary Louis Caldera and Lt. Gen. Leon S. LaPorte, commander of Fort Hood, TX. It is titled:

"BARR DEMANDS END TO TAXPAYER-FUNDED WITCHCRAFT ON AMERICAN MILITARY BASES." 4

He is reported as having viewed a report on The O'Reilly Factor, a program on Fox News. It featured vernal equinox ceremonies by soldiers at Fort Hood, TX. He had heard that military chaplains at Fort Hood, and other bases "are sanctioning, if not supporting the practice of witchcraft as a 'religion' by soldiers on military bases."

It is unclear exactly how the toleration of Wicca (a.k.a. Witchcraft) and other minority religions are taxpayer-funded. Large armed forces bases frequently have one or more Protestant ministers, Roman Catholic priests, and a Jewish rabbis on staff. The Christian and Jewish soldiers' religious needs are met at some taxpayer expense. The military pays clergy salaries, provides chaplains with offices and support staff, etc. In a hypothetical case of an army base with 5,000 soldiers, and 3 chaplains at $75,000 per year each, the government allocates $45 per year for the spiritual support of each Christian or Jewish soldier. But there are, to our knowledge, no Wiccan Priests, Priestesses, or chaplain office at any base in America. Wiccans are expected to fend for themselves, and provide their own priests and priestesses from within their own membership. The cost per Wiccan for spiritual support is essentially nothing. Some news sources stated that the Army had increased security at Fort Hood "in order to deter members of Christian groups from intimidating the witches, who meet in campgrounds..." 7 The army would certainly incur costs due to the need for this increased security. However, that is not the fault of the Wiccans. It is caused by perceived threats from some Christian sources.

Barr stated that allowing Wiccans to follow their religion on base: "...sets a dangerous precedent that could easily result in the practice of all sorts of bizarre practices being supported by the military under the rubric of 'religion.' "

He rejects Wicca (a.k.a. Witchcraft) as a legitimate religion, even though:

It meets the criteria for a religious belief specified in the Civil Rights Act of 1964.
It has been recognized as a valid religion by at least two U.S. district courts.
It has hundreds of thousands of followers in the U.S.

Rep Barr continues: "What's next? Will armored divisions be forced to travel with sacrificial animals for Satanic rituals? Will Rastafarians demand the inclusion of ritualistic marijuana cigarettes in their rations?..."

Religious Satanists do not engage in the ritual sacrifice of animals. Teenage dabblers in Satanism sometimes have been known to kill a dog or cat or small animal; but this is quite rare. Whether Rastafarians should be allowed exemption from drug laws is a matter for the courts to decide. Some Native Americans have been allowed to consume peyote as part of their religious services -- they follow a tradition which dates back millennia. Roman Catholics are permitted to consume wine during Mass. Allowing Rastafarians to use marijuana in their religious rituals may be similarly guaranteed by the 1st Amendment to the U.S. constitution. Only a court case would tell for certain.

He ended his press release with the following: A print of the painting, 'The Prayer At Valley Forge,' depicting George Washington on bended knee, praying in the hard snow at Valley Forge, hangs over the desk in my office. If the practice of witchcraft, such as is allowed now at Fort Hood, is permitted to stand, one wonders what paintings will grace the walls of future generations."

So this is the face of the liberatarian party now??:(

0zzy
05-26-2008, 11:27 AM
View Post
Obviously you have done no research on Bob Barr, otherwise you would know that he constantly pushed for complete FEDERAL prohibition of medical Marijuana and went out of his way to block attempts for STATES to legalize it for medical purposes, you would know that he voted for the patriot act, you would know that he voted for the war in Iraq, you would know that he authored the Defense of Marriage Act act on the FEDERAL LEVEL, you would know that he proposed to BAN Wicca in the military. Need I share with you the definition of 'libertarianism'?

And you yourself have done no research otherwise you would have known that he currently works for the Medical Marijuana Lobby to lobby such bans and believes in federalism when it comes to drug regulation. Kubby even believes in him, but you don't.

You would know that he disowned the Defense of Marriage Act, which Ron Paul actually supported (recognized something called "states' rights").

You would know that... well I got nothing in the Wicca thing but I'm pretty sure that's not going to be one of the biggest subjects this election season. Not very libertarian of him, you are correct.

The rest, do your research.

werdd
05-26-2008, 11:53 AM
I honestly dont care, im voting barr. Even if he has a spotty past, people have the right to change their minds. 4 years ago i would of voted Kerry, Ron Paul opened up my eyes to evil big goverment. So he has the right to change his mind.

That said he is polished, and has great orator skills and respect within the conservative community, him and a good VP will have a great chance at expanding the Libertarian party.

TurtleBurger
05-26-2008, 12:05 PM
I don't think any chaplains should be funded by taxpayers. If clergy want to travel with the troops at their own or their church's expense, that's fine. When clergymen are working under the funding and the command of the military, it sends a really dangerous message.

werdd
05-26-2008, 12:07 PM
Well looks like the VP is Wayne Allen Root, and he is solidly libertarian. The party is taking a chance with barr to best expand the libertarian party.

Im gonna send them a check pretty soon.

notcarljung
05-26-2008, 01:58 PM
[I]
What do you think of this ticket?

I think it's a reality check. No matter who wins the race... we're going to end up with hypocrites in office that change their views when the time suits them. Yeah... sounds about right.

crazyfingers
05-26-2008, 02:02 PM
http://knappster.blogspot.com/2008/04/those-who-try-to-rewrite-history.html


HOW THE GOP CAN GET IT'S GROOVE BACK WITH THE DREAM TICKET OF McCAIN-LIEBERMAN IN 2008!

As the author of the #1 Amazon Best-Seller "Millionaire Republican," I have a vested interest in seeing my beloved GOP back in power. To that end, you can't blame this loyal Republican and former Malibu, California resident for doing some California Dreamin'. And what a dream it is! I've come up with a simple and easy 2-step plan that would instantly return the United States Senate to GOP control (today- without an election), energize the GOP base, and put a Republican in strong position to reclaim the White House in 2008 (giving us a great opportunity to control the Presidency for 20 consecutive years). My plan? It all revolves around a conservative Democrat named Joseph Lieberman!


Senate Majority Leader Lieberman would be in a position to aid the Jewish state of Israel -- something so important to him (and many Americans -- including me). But I'm not done yet -- here's the coup de grace: the GOP offers Lieberman one more carrot that is impossible to turn down -- a place on the GOP Presidential ticket! That's right -- I'm suggesting an unbeatable GOP ticket of McCain- Lieberman in 2008 ...


America wants a moderate Republican in the White House -- McCain is the ideal choice. He is strong on defense with a military background, yet gets along with Democrats and often crosses party lines. McCain campaigned for over 100 GOP candidates across the country -- and now will collect on that goodwill as the GOP picks up the pieces and looks for a mainstream, electable candidate in 2008. McCain is that man.

Do these sound like the words of a Libertarian Vice Presidential candidate? Wayne Allyn Root, ladies and gentleman.

Mesogen
05-26-2008, 03:04 PM
So is Bob Barr some sort of flip flopper, ala McCain and Kerry?

crazyfingers
05-26-2008, 03:07 PM
So is Bob Barr some sort of flip flopper, ala McCain and Kerry?

That would imply that Barr has actually changed his positions on the issues. He just equivocates and obfuscates enough to some fool people into thinking he has.

Mesogen
05-26-2008, 03:10 PM
What boggles my mind is how this guy got the nomination over Mary Ruwart, who as far as I can tell is a real libertarian.

TurtleBurger
05-26-2008, 03:15 PM
http://knappster.blogspot.com/2008/04/those-who-try-to-rewrite-history.html


Do these sound like the words of a Libertarian Vice Presidential candidate? Wayne Allyn Root, ladies and gentleman.

Yikes, that's awful! I wonder if the delegates knew about that.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
05-26-2008, 03:35 PM
What boggles my mind is how this guy got the nomination over Mary Ruwart, who as far as I can tell is a real libertarian.What boggles my mind is how McCain got the nomination over Ron Paul, who as far as I can tell is a real republican.

FreedomProsperityPeace
05-26-2008, 07:07 PM
Barr is a huge hypocrite. There's no way I'm voting for him.

JosephTheLibertarian
05-26-2008, 07:17 PM
I watched the debate last nite, I had never seen or heard any of the candidates before.
My impressions were that Barr was the most polished "Romney-esque" in style only, not substance. And I really liked Root's energy, he seemed the most passionate of the bunch.
I had no problem with the others, they were preaching to the choir in my living room, but I think it is a good ticket.
I almost choked when Gravel made a comment about something "eroding our democracy"
If a Libertarian candidate does not yet know the difference between a democracy and a constitutional republic, then I have no use for him.

I was a LP member for 15 years, switched to vote for RP. I'd like to see the GOP turn around, but I have been reminded that the two party system is part of the PROBLEM.
It may be more expedient to steer the GOP back on course, but it would be healthier for the Republic to break the shackes and elect a Libertarian.

Libertarians are harder to herd than cats, now that the nomination has been made, I really hope for once that everybody gets behind Barr.
If there is one thing we have learned from the R3volution, it is not about the man, but the message, and Bob has a good message to speak.

No, libertarians may be "harder to herd than cats," but large "L" Libertarians can be anyone that just wants less government and more civil liberties. You don't have to be a libertarian in order to be a Libertarian.

0zzy
05-26-2008, 07:21 PM
Barr is a huge hypocrite. There's no way I'm voting for him.

...k.

FindLiberty
05-26-2008, 07:34 PM
Unless there's a opportunity/reason to vote for Ron Paul,
I'll probably "hold my nose" and vote for the new LP Beirut
(Barr-Root) pair for POTUS and VP. Otherwise, I'll stay home
on election day.

Might work out very well for LP membership and ballot access
if the message is communicated well... (2010, 2012 groundwork)

FreedomProsperityPeace
05-26-2008, 07:35 PM
Glad I have your approval.

haigh
05-26-2008, 07:44 PM
As long as Barr is the closest candidate to Ron Paul with this statement from his web site

"Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation."

He's got my vote.

I can't see writing in Ron Paul. I doubt the vote would ever be counted or a tally published. Whereas a record vote total for the LP could empower future Ron Paul like candidates.

0zzy
05-26-2008, 08:05 PM
As long as Barr is the closest candidate to Ron Paul with this statement from his web site

"Our National Defense policy must renew a commitment to non-intervention. We are not the world's police force and our long, yet recently tarnished, tradition of respecting the sovereignty of other nations is necessary, not from only a moral standpoint, but to regain the respect of the world as a principled and peaceful nation."

He's got my vote.

I can't see writing in Ron Paul. I doubt the vote would ever be counted or a tally published. Whereas a record vote total for the LP could empower future Ron Paul like candidates.

indeed.

RedLightning
05-26-2008, 09:04 PM
What boggles my mind is how this guy got the nomination over Mary Ruwart, who as far as I can tell is a real libertarian.

The Libertarians decided they want to get more then 400,000 votes this time.