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rational thinker
05-23-2008, 01:50 PM
If we leave the schools to states, how will we able to ensure that Bible Belt states like Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, and etc. won't teach creationism as a science in science class?

winston_blade
05-23-2008, 01:54 PM
If we leave the schools to states, how will we able to ensure that Bible Belt states like Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, and etc. won't teach creationism as a science in science class?

You won't. People in those states would vote on curriculum, or even better, those schools districts would. In fact, most of them probably would teach it, but as long as it isn't in my state, it wouldn't matter too much to me. That would be Texas's fight, not mine.

familydog
05-23-2008, 02:03 PM
If we leave the schools to states, how will we able to ensure that Bible Belt states like Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, and etc. won't teach creationism as a science in science class?

You don't. Just like you wouldn't ensure that Texas children get as good of an education as Pennsylvania children. Like Ron Paul teaches, family, friends, local communities, and local organizations and churches are the best to solve our problems. Not Washington D.C. Let's not be afraid of giving power back to the people as our founders intended.

Patriot123
05-23-2008, 02:14 PM
Well, they would have the right to. That is, if the education department was abolished and schools weren't controlled by any government, but rather the actual parents of the attending students. Then, anything could be taught as it would be constitutional. Schools now are obviously controlled by the federal and state government. But if schools were given over to the states as they should be as the federal government doesn't have the constitutional authority to regulate schools, obviously it would be unconstitutional at this point in time for schools to do so. So there would be no problems. A court would overrule any education on the bible and whatnot in public schools like they have in the past. That's all.

Grimnir Wotansvolk
05-23-2008, 02:16 PM
It's important to understand, for one, that "education" and "schooling" are not synonymous. A big part of my support for sweepingly privatized education is that it would, hopefully, loosen the stranglehold that this misguided push for four-year degrees has on our country. Alternatively, the market would dictate what it wants from people, whether it be 6 months, on-the-job training or four years of nose-in-book scholarly study, or anything in between or beyond. So if the bible belt residents decide that they want to send their kids to creationism schools, then they can have fun raising an entire generation of scientifically-destitute ingrates.

rational thinker
05-23-2008, 03:11 PM
Wouldn't it be dangerous if public schools were allowed to teach creationism as scientific fact to children? Let's be honest here, there are many communities where the religious majority would be more than willing to go for that. How do we stop that? Why should we allow it in the first place?

AutoDas
05-23-2008, 03:20 PM
You think it's dangerous for kids to learn creationism, but you completely overlook the cause of the problem. Government should not be indoctrinating children.

Mach
05-23-2008, 03:21 PM
You won't. People in those states would vote on curriculum, or even better, those schools districts would. In fact, most of them probably would teach it, but as long as it isn't in my state, it wouldn't matter too much to me. That would be Texas's fight, not mine.

What he said......:rolleyes:

Sandra
05-23-2008, 03:29 PM
We learn it in church anyway. Physical science is taught in schools (and in most church schools).

Grimnir Wotansvolk
05-23-2008, 03:36 PM
Am I wrong in thinking that the dissolution of the department of education would mean an end to public education altogether?

amy31416
05-23-2008, 03:49 PM
Wouldn't it be dangerous if public schools were allowed to teach creationism as scientific fact to children? Let's be honest here, there are many communities where the religious majority would be more than willing to go for that. How do we stop that? Why should we allow it in the first place?

Freedom often has both upsides and downsides. If Texas decides to teach only creationism in their schools, then that is their choice. The families there who do not agree with this will either move, homeschool or go with private schools.

It may take a few years, but Texas' ranking in science and mathematics will go down the toilet (if it isn't already there,) and it'll be obvious why.

Freedom doesn't always mean an ideal state.

winston_blade
05-23-2008, 05:25 PM
Freedom doesn't always mean an ideal state.

Exactly. I think that statement is too often overlooked. Freedom doesn't ensure that things will be ideal, but it ensures that one may strive for the ideal however one decides to pursue it.

clouds
05-23-2008, 09:36 PM
no. public education came first.

anyway. I don't think evolution or creationism really affects much of your science, anyway, except at a philosophical level, unless you're going into a field that is dependent on those theories.

driller80545
05-23-2008, 09:41 PM
When I was growing up the schools taught evolution and we learned about creationism in bible school. I didn't particularly care about either subject at the time.

Kraig
05-24-2008, 12:56 AM
Might as well have said:

"If we give people freedom how can we ensure they will all do the same thing?"

Grimnir Wotansvolk
05-24-2008, 01:31 AM
no. public education came first.

anyway. I don't think evolution or creationism really affects much of your science, anyway, except at a philosophical level, unless you're going into a field that is dependent on those theories.Alright, seriously...what field of science could possibly be built on Creationism?

Prayer-acknowledgement statistics?

Command & Control Physics?

Mulletnomics?

SeanEdwards
05-24-2008, 02:02 AM
I think it would be great if the bible belt states decided to raise a generation of uneducated bible-thumpers. It would just mean more opportunity for the rest of us.

danberkeley
05-24-2008, 02:37 AM
Creationism? It's better than the government teaching our 3rd graders to have sex and giving them condoms. What makes you think the state would have your child's best interest in mind?

danberkeley
05-24-2008, 02:42 AM
Alright, seriously...what field of science could possibly be built on Creationism?

Prayer-acknowledgement statistics?

Command & Control Physics?

Mulletnomics?

Read Thomas E. Woods' How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization

SeanEdwards
05-24-2008, 03:10 AM
Read Thomas E. Woods' How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization

I'm guessing that thesis of that book is that the Catholic Church built Western Civilization, by not succeeding at burning every scientist at the stake.

amy31416
05-24-2008, 03:32 AM
I'm guessing that thesis of that book is that the Catholic Church built Western Civilization, by not succeeding at burning every scientist at the stake.

Most of the scientists under the Catholic church had to go stealth, thankfully they did.

pcosmar
05-24-2008, 04:27 AM
Well with this wealth of opinion, I did a quick search.
There seems to be a good number of thinking and reasoning people that also had Faith.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Christian_thinkers_in_science
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html

These are a place to start.
btw, I and not all that "religious" but I am a Christian, and consider myself a critical thinker.
I do not think the two are incompatible.

moostraks
05-24-2008, 05:41 AM
Wouldn't it be dangerous if public schools were allowed to teach creationism as scientific fact to children? Let's be honest here, there are many communities where the religious majority would be more than willing to go for that. How do we stop that? Why should we allow it in the first place?

Wow...you can have freedom as long as you do things my way. :eek:

moostraks
05-24-2008, 05:44 AM
FWIW...most of the parents who care about making sure what facts are being taught to their children are the ones who sacrifice the time/money to either homeschool or private school them. So you are already being " destroyed" with these corrupt ideas. Oh yeah, I forgot, public school children aren't really better educated then private/homeschool children...

Carehn
05-24-2008, 07:02 AM
Wouldn't it be dangerous if public schools were allowed to teach creationism as scientific fact to children? Let's be honest here, there are many communities where the religious majority would be more than willing to go for that. How do we stop that? Why should we allow it in the first place?

Let go my friend. This is the hardest part about are fight. You have to let people make there own choices. You have to except the FACT that not every one is like you. Its ok to believe in God. Its also just as fine not to. If we start pushing are believes on others we will be no different then what ****ed this country up in the first place.

Hiki
05-24-2008, 07:49 AM
Don't blame the system, blame the people in control of it. Remember that your country isn't the only place where there is a Department of Education. For example here in Finland we have a Department of Education. Now Finland is usually in the top3 in the PISA study which tests reading skills, maths and natural sciences.

http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/42/8/39700724.pdf If you look at this table showing the 2006 results, you'll see that those countries do have a Department of Education and public schools but still they perform greatly and have bright students.

Now the structure of your country is pretty unique so I'm not sure what is best for you, but in my opinion everybody should have an equal standard of education.

10thAmendment
08-18-2008, 12:00 PM
If we leave the schools to states, how will we able to ensure that Bible Belt states like Texas, Tennessee, Alabama, and etc. won't teach creationism as a science in science class?
rational thinker has the wires crossed concerning creationism in schools for the following reasons. First, given that the federal Constitution says nothing about public education, the 10th Amendment automatically reserves government power to address public education uniquely to the state governments.

10th Amendment: The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

Also, while I agree that creationism is no more of a science than macroevolution ideas, neither of these subjects having any business in public school science classrooms, please consider the following. Given that the states also have the 10th A. protected power to address religion, there is no constitutional basis, other than the USSC's anti-religious expression perversion of the establishment clause, that creationism cannot be discussed in non-science public school classrooms.

Getting back to constitutionally unauthorized federal government involvement in public schools, the bottom line is that the people need to get in the faces of the feds, not only demanding that they get their big noses out of state affairs by stopping the funding of public schools, but also appropriately reduce federal taxes.

forsmant
08-18-2008, 03:50 PM
Wouldn't it be dangerous if public schools were allowed to teach creationism as scientific fact to children? Let's be honest here, there are many communities where the religious majority would be more than willing to go for that. How do we stop that? Why should we allow it in the first place?

You stop it by having a better idea with more plausible truth. All ideas except math are disputed. Once you leave the confines of the school and step into the real world you realize that everything is debatable.