Hawaii GOP Delegate gloats over railroading Ron Paul Supporters at state convention

[Thomas_Paine]

http://www.hawaiireporter.com/story.aspx?e3dedd8c-7865-417d-865c-f8da8cbfaad5

Pride comes before the fall...

[Mahkato]

Ouch.

[Fyretrohl]

Wondering where his 'pride' is? Other than suggesting that he expected the RP supporters to be prepared and to have things ready to go...

I honestly did not see anything bad there. He did not attack Ron Paul, that I saw. He did bring up what he considered rudeness by some and, perhaps, his description of 'ineptness' may have been a bit rough. But, I don't see much negative in it, per se.

[Pauliana]

Sounds like our guys didn't do their homework.

[Badger Paul]

Okay, how many of you have read Roberts Rules of Order or know parlimentary procedure? Hmm? Ron Paul supporters put aside their jobs and their families and worked hard just to get a third of the delegates. They're not political experts. Yes, when you put up pure amateurs up against professional hacks like Mr. Pico, yeah its going to be a rout.

What this McCain hack doesn't tell you is that at least Patsy Mink and Frank Fasi were elected officials with some status in the Democratic Party of Hawaii of that time. How many elected officials or party officials with some experience worked with Ron Paul's camapaign in Hawaii? Anyone?

[wgadget]

Well, at least our team didn't have a SCRIPT.

[Perry]

Sometimes I regret being non-violent.

[thx1149]

Well, at least our team didn't have a SCRIPT.

Is a script really that bad? I doubt the rules prevent it and I am not sure I understand why it is a negative thing. They knew that they likely would have enough support to push things in their direction and the script guided it all. Why is that bad?

I think it's bad that they blocked the proper ways of electing delegates and so destroyed any chance of the people having proper representation at the national convention. I think all of the dirty tricks and rule bending going on at the recent conventions is a terrible thing, but having a script I just see as being prepared. Can someone please explain to me why I should see it differently?

[torchbearer]

Okay, how many of you have read Roberts Rules of Order or know parlimentary procedure? Hmm? Ron Paul supporters put aside their jobs and their families and worked hard just to get a third of the delegates. They're not political experts. Yes, when you put up pure amateurs up against professional hacks like Mr. Pico, yeah its going to be a rout.

What this McCain hack doesn't tell you is that at least Patsy Mink and Frank Fasi were elected officials with some status in the Democratic Party of Hawaii of that time. How many elected officials or party officials with some experience worked with Ron Paul's camapaign in Hawaii? Anyone?

That is why I posted this: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=134726

It would be our equalizer.

[torchbearer]

//

[suzypotaka]

Is a script really that bad? I doubt the rules prevent it and I am not sure I understand why it is a negative thing. They knew that they likely would have enough support to push things in their direction and the script guided it all. Why is that bad?

I think it's bad that they blocked the proper ways of electing delegates and so destroyed any chance of the people having proper representation at the national convention. I think all of the dirty tricks and rule bending going on at the recent conventions is a terrible thing, but having a script I just see as being prepared. Can someone please explain to me why I should see it differently?

================
Maybe this provides a better picture:


Delegates to the Hawaii GOP Convention Were Not 'Gnats'
By Laura Brown, 5/23/2008 10:16:07 AM

Despite an editorial to the contrary by Republican delegate Tom Pico Jr., delegates to the GOP convention were not “gnats” (See "Ron Paul Supporters Had Poor Showing at Hawaii GOP Convention" ). There was a contingent of party regulars (although many long-time supporters were notable missing), as well as fresh, young faces eager to participate for the first time.

I attended the Republican Convention last weekend as a delegate – not a Ron Paul supporter. I attended these conventions since 1998, only because I believe that Hawaii needs a 2-party system.

In 2002, the “new beginning” promised by Gov. Linda Lingle was inspiring. I looked forward to her transparent, accountable and efficient administration.

But the contrast between the governor’s inauguration in 2002 and what I witnessed at the convention was stark and disturbing.

Officials orchestrated a tightly-scripted “coup” against all delegates who might challenge their authority and tight reins on their leadership, especially regarding the controversial platform that includes promotion of the Akaka Bill, federal legislation now pending approval in congress, and the city's plans to build a $6 billion rail from Kapolei to Honolulu.

The convention was not one of your average State-run "dog and pony" show that Hawaii’s citizens have endured for years. At least, at those staged events, officials have the pretense of cordiality. Instead, the party leaders seemed to be filled with hatred and paranoia. As delegates who paid $100 to attend the convention, somehow we became the enemy.

All discussion – not just by Ron Paul supporters – was quashed. Those who did not attend can verify this by reading the official script of the event. Using Robert’s Rules of Order, the chair would make a motion, while a person, as scripted, would stand at the microphone and second the motion. The second person in the script would immediately scream into the microphone, “CALL FOR THE QUESTION.” The chair would call for the raising of hands, but would say the “ayes have it” even when it looked as if that were not the case.

The audience called out for a roll call vote at one point and convention co-chair Sam Aiona stated that there could only be a roll call if 10 district chairs agreed. Then, after 10 chairs agreed, he told them they had to poll their members. The roll call vote was never taken.

Small, green cards with typed-in names of pre-selected pro-McCain national delegates (some of whom work for the Governor or are on the government payroll) were distributed to pre-screened McCain supporters and were accepted in lieu of the regular ballot at the ballot box.

I stood right next to City Councilmember Charles Djou as he waited to put 4 preprinted ballots in the ballot box. I did not follow him to the ballot box, but I would like to know why he held 4 ballots in his hand and if he was allowed to vote them.

As the voting began, delegates were not allowed to review the other candidate names, except after much protest and yelling to put the names on the video screen. Those names were not clear except when standing at the front of the room. Even then, the names were only left up for about a minute and some names were cut off below the screen.

I would say that half of the room was booing at times and yelling and some even cried at how the once promising Republican Party has been destroyed by the heavy-hand of Gov. Lingle and her hand-picked party leaders.

This type of abhorrent behavior should never be allowed to happen again. The party lost the opportunity to bring in new blood and consolidate ties with loyal members. Now, that opportunity is lost.

To blame Ron Paul supporters for the tainted process used by Republican leaders that shut down all debate is ludicrous.

[IPSecure]

Update (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=139236)

[thx1149]

================
Maybe this provides a better picture:
....


The tainting of the voting process and not allowing things to be discussed and debated properly is definitely a bad thing. Without proper discussion and clean voting our system of parties and government is not much more than a performance, and so I definitely agree that those were bad things.

In regards to a script though, I'm still not convinced that having a script is a bad thing. Is it scripts in general that are bad, or was it just their script? I skimmed through their script. Most of it seemed pretty reasonable. The only thing I really didn't like was their attempts at blocking debate on major issues like the rule changes, but that required a 2/3rd majority to pull off and I think it's completely legitimate.

What else do people have problems with in there?

Also, someone has occasionally posted a quote from the GOP rules that sounds like these delegate slates that are being forced through in many states are not allowed. Does anyone have any update on that? Has anyone tried to fight the results with that yet?