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mdh
05-20-2008, 09:33 PM
Come say hi to me! I'll be there. Post in this thread if you are going to be in Denver this week for the LP national convention.

Swing by the radical caucus booth, I suspect I'll be hanging around there a bunch when there isn't business being conducted or a caucus going on that I need to attend or a party going on...

RonPaulVolunteer
05-20-2008, 09:36 PM
I have applied for Press Credentials 3 times and have not even received so much as a reply. Not good.

constituent
05-21-2008, 05:47 AM
my family will be visiting denver (by coincidence) this weekend.

have a good time, i'll see you on c-span!

JosephTheLibertarian
05-21-2008, 07:11 AM
Come say hi to me! I'll be there. Post in this thread if you are going to be in Denver this week for the LP national convention.

Swing by the radical caucus booth, I suspect I'll be hanging around there a bunch when there isn't business being conducted or a caucus going on that I need to attend or a party going on...

my heart is with the radical caucus

my brain is with the reform caucus

;)

hopeforamerica
05-21-2008, 09:49 AM
Vote for Ernest Hancock for your next Chairperson! He will only help take the LP to the next level!!! Say hi to Ed from Phoenix as well. These two did so much for the revolution and will CONTINUE to do a ton for the revolution!

mdh
05-21-2008, 03:41 PM
I have applied for Press Credentials 3 times and have not even received so much as a reply. Not good.

Did you talk to Andrew Davis? There's been a lot of controversy over press credentials. I'm a bit annoyed by some of it.


my heart is with the radical caucus

my brain is with the reform caucus

There are some good folks in the reform caucus, but there are also some like Milsted (who recently endorsed McCain) who have earned it the name retard caucus...


Vote for Ernest Hancock for your next Chairperson! He will only help take the LP to the next level!!! Say hi to Ed from Phoenix as well. These two did so much for the revolution and will CONTINUE to do a ton for the revolution!

I love Ernie to death. Hung out with him a bit in NH when I was up there for OLFD.

RonPaulVolunteer
05-21-2008, 04:27 PM
Did you talk to Andrew Davis? There's been a lot of controversy over press credentials. I'm a bit annoyed by some of it.

I have followed their instructions on their site 3 times and emailed them off everything they asked for, and not even a reply. I guess they aren't interested in any coverage.

MelissaWV
05-21-2008, 04:29 PM
Tonight at midnight mdh leaves for Denver, CO to go vote for who the LP will put forth as their candidate. In addition to that, he'll be helping form the LP platform along with the other delegates. What he won't be doing, as of right now, is eating (neither will I, to be fair) every day. As with Super Tuesday, the process is of more importance to us than whether or not we get some food in our bellies. The lodging and transportation are already arranged. It's a matter of food and the transportation within Denver itself.

*IF* people feel they can toss mdh a few bucks tonight so he will have money to eat modestly, and maybe even buy a box of pasta or two once he gets home, they can toss a chip-in at mdh@solitox.net . I know this isn't a "cause" as much as the other stuff people are being asked to contribute to, so I don't exactly expect zillions of dollars lol but if someone can see fit to plunk $20 or so in there we can make it stretch Thank you for your time!

austin356
05-21-2008, 04:43 PM
Will be there. Have press credentials and will be blogging, writing, and videoing for United Liberty.org (http://www.unitedliberty.org/)



Denver Bound - Live From LP Convention (http://www.unitedliberty.org/110/ul-live-from-denver/)

May 20th, 2008 Posted in Announcement, Blog, General, News | Edit | No Comments

I have recently decided to attend the 2008 Libertarian Party Convention in Denver to bring live coverage to our United Liberty.org readers. This will surely be one of the most exciting conventions in recent memory particularly because of inner party controversy, in addition to the lingering excitement among the libertarian community surrounding the Ron Paul campaign. Due to the dynamics of 2008, I expect the Libertarian Party to receive substantially more mainstream press coverage of both their Nominating Convention and their eventual nominee - whoever that may be - than in years past.

While in Denver I will be providing up to date coverage on a variety of events, interviews, and issues through live blogs, articles, and video. Check back with us even if you are not a Big L Libertarian - UL will have content that also appeals to individuals beyond the party core.

For those of you who will be in Denver this weekend look for the United Liberty T-shirts that will be available for purchase. If any readers have suggestions or requests for on the scenes content then feel open to contact me at Austin@alabamaliberty.com.

-Austin Wilkes

JMann
05-21-2008, 04:53 PM
Please vote for Bob Barr in this insane process of electing a POTUS and VPOTUS nominee. We can hope that by 2012 the LP will let members select the delegates to the convention instead of only letting the most active, extreme members of the LP elect the candidate.

There is something called the internet now that COULD allow LP members vote online for the candidate of the party's choice instead of this being purely a 'super delegate' process. I wouldn't be surprised if on Monday the nation wakes up to find out the LP has nominated a Nolan-Ruwart ticket, once again assuring an asterisk for result in November.

If the LP would think about it they can nominate Barr and maybe not have to spend tons of money in a bunch of states just getting ballot access. Barr very well could reach the minimums needed to qualify in some states.

mdh
05-21-2008, 05:00 PM
Please vote for Bob Barr in this insane process of electing a POTUS and VPOTUS nominee. We can hope that by 2012 the LP will let members select the delegates to the convention instead of only letting the most active, extreme members of the LP elect the candidate.

There is something called the internet now that COULD allow LP members vote online for the candidate of the party's choice instead of this being purely a 'super delegate' process. I wouldn't be surprised if on Monday the nation wakes up to find out the LP has nominated a Nolan-Ruwart ticket, once again assuring an asterisk for result in November.

If the LP would think about it they can nominate Barr and maybe not have to spend tons of money in a bunch of states just getting ballot access. Barr very well could reach the minimums needed to qualify in some states.

Honestly I don't dislike Barr at all, but he has just not been forthcoming in such a way as to make myself and others completely comfortable. Susan Hogarth wrote an open letter to Congressman Barr basically asking the questions that many of us are wondering about the answers to. If he responded to that in good faith and full candor, he'd likely be a shoe-in for the nomination.

As far as selecting delegates, it's actually quite easy to be a delegate, but you are expected to be at least a member of the party. There's good reason for this, and I would strongly oppose anything that would change that or allow random people to select delegates. These are party matters for people who care about the party - not the sort of people who voted for McCain time and again over Ron Paul.

JMann
05-21-2008, 05:09 PM
Honestly I don't dislike Barr at all, but he has just not been forthcoming in such a way as to make myself and others completely comfortable. Susan Hogarth wrote an open letter to Congressman Barr basically asking the questions that many of us are wondering about the answers to. If he responded to that in good faith and full candor, he'd likely be a shoe-in for the nomination.

As far as selecting delegates, it's actually quite easy to be a delegate, but you are expected to be at least a member of the party. There's good reason for this, and I would strongly oppose anything that would change that or allow random people to select delegates. These are party matters for people who care about the party - not the sort of people who voted for McCain time and again over Ron Paul.

If you are looking for the perfect, pure candidate Barr isn't your man. Barr has shown he supports smaller government, less taxes and an end to the war. Far better than the 'major party' candidates.

Delegates in my view should be selected by active due paying or lifetime members to vote from home online... Or at least a percentage instead of leaving it one hundred percent to those that go to the state conventions. If you believe in representative government there is no excuse why the LP doesn't open up the process. Well, except allow the party leaders to have absolute control. Not to mention the media coverage and promotion that could be garnered by having a national on-line primary.

I'm not advocating opening it up to people that don't care about the party, I'm talking about opening it up to the people that support libertarian values and that have joined the party.

Hook
05-21-2008, 05:22 PM
Nolan just put out a piece where he is wary of Barr bringing in his cronies and turning the LP into GOP lite.
I don't know if it is true or not, but I am still a bit mystified why he joined the LP when he has much more ideological connectionn to the CP.
Anyway, I think a Ruwart-Nolan ticket would be great. I also am counting on MDH et. al. to bring back the old platform the "pragmatists" shelled in '04

mdh
05-21-2008, 05:35 PM
If you are looking for the perfect, pure candidate Barr isn't your man. Barr has shown he supports smaller government, less taxes and an end to the war. Far better than the 'major party' candidates.

I demand a certain level of candor, honesty, and openness from a candidate. That's what Barr is missing right now - it's not an ideological thing. I want to grow the party, I want to accept that people can change their mind when presented with good ideas, and I have heard testimony from good friends of mine on the LNC that Barr was a good member of the LNC.


Delegates in my view should be selected by active due paying or lifetime members to vote from home online... Or at least a percentage instead of leaving it one hundred percent to those that go to the state conventions. If you believe in representative government there is no excuse why the LP doesn't open up the process. Well, except allow the party leaders to have absolute control. Not to mention the media coverage and promotion that could be garnered by having a national on-line primary.

I'm not advocating opening it up to people that don't care about the party, I'm talking about opening it up to the people that support libertarian values and that have joined the party.

Delegates in my state and most other states are elected by dues-paying members of the state party. It's not done online, that would be silly and counterproductive, it's done at a state convention. There are a few states which are exceptions to this (one or two even hold primaries like the Reps/Dems). There's nothing to stop any member in good standing from coming and participating in the state convention process.

I wouldn't go with online voting at all, ever, because I simply don't think it can be done securely. There're some good research papers on the subject if you're curious as to why, but they tend to be heavily technical.


Nolan just put out a piece where he is wary of Barr bringing in his cronies and turning the LP into GOP lite.
I don't know if it is true or not, but I am still a bit mystified why he joined the LP when he has much more ideological connectionn to the CP.
Anyway, I think a Ruwart-Nolan ticket would be great. I also am counting on MDH et. al. to bring back the old platform the "pragmatists" shelled in '04

I'm definitly a supporter of Restore '04 (http://www.restore04.com/).

By the way, Nolan isn't running for presidential/vice-presidential office, he's running for an LNC at-large seat. I'm supporting him in that.

I don't know about Barr taking over the GOP - Viguerie did take over thirdpartywatch, and that is a shame.

JMann
05-21-2008, 05:45 PM
Delegates in my state and most other states are elected by dues-paying members of the state party. It's not done online, that would be silly and counterproductive, it's done at a state convention. There are a few states which are exceptions to this (one or two even hold primaries like the Reps/Dems). There's nothing to stop any member in good standing from coming and participating in the state convention process.

I wouldn't go with online voting at all, ever, because I simply don't think it can be done securely. There're some good research papers on the subject if you're curious as to why, but they tend to be heavily technical.

So you support not allowing people to vote and the only the most radical, extreme, activist that attend state conventions should have their voices heard? This is why we hate the fundamentalist Christian Republicans and the Marxist Democrats. The very reason why the LP for nearly 40 years has no influence. The LP needs to grow up or decide that it is an academic pursuit instead of a political movement.

Hook
05-21-2008, 05:53 PM
I'm definitly a supporter of Restore '04 (http://www.restore04.com/).

By the way, Nolan isn't running for presidential/vice-presidential office, he's running for an LNC at-large seat. I'm supporting him in that.

I don't know about Barr taking over the GOP - Viguerie did take over thirdpartywatch, and that is a shame.

If Barr can take over the GOP, maybe we should elect him :D

mdh
05-21-2008, 06:10 PM
So you support not allowing people to vote and the only the most radical, extreme, activist that attend state conventions should have their voices heard? This is why we hate the fundamentalist Christian Republicans and the Marxist Democrats. The very reason why the LP for nearly 40 years has no influence. The LP needs to grow up or decide that it is an academic pursuit instead of a political movement.

OK by me if that's who chooses to attend the state convention! The fact is that each individual is responsible for their own actions. Each member has a choice to attend a state convention or not. In my state, about 2/3rds of our membership came to the state convention and we signed up a few new people that day too, one of whom even got himself elected as secretary of the party (a position I had vacated to seek the chair, which I was elected to formally after serving as chairman pro-tem for a few weeks.)

It's really easy to become a somebody in any party - all you've gotta do is show up, the fact is most people don't show up. If you choose to be lazy and not show up, you get what you've decided to earn yourself, which is no say in the party's internal affairs.

Heaven forbid I should be accused of disenfranchising the lazy. ;)

JMann
05-21-2008, 06:24 PM
OK by me if that's who chooses to attend the state convention! The fact is that each individual is responsible for their own actions. Each member has a choice to attend a state convention or not. In my state, about 2/3rds of our membership came to the state convention and we signed up a few new people that day too, one of whom even got himself elected as secretary of the party (a position I had vacated to seek the chair, which I was elected to formally after serving as chairman pro-tem for a few weeks.)

It's really easy to become a somebody in any party - all you've gotta do is show up, the fact is most people don't show up. If you choose to be lazy and not show up, you get what you've decided to earn yourself, which is no say in the party's internal affairs.

Heaven forbid I should be accused of disenfranchising the lazy. ;)

2/3 of nothing equals nothing. Why not let libertarians (that join the LP) nominate the candidate instead of only Libertarians nominating the nominee?

I guess you think Michael Badnarik was a wise choice in aught four?

mdh
05-21-2008, 06:37 PM
2/3 of nothing equals nothing. Why not let libertarians (that join the LP) nominate the candidate instead of only Libertarians nominating the nominee?

I guess you think Michael Badnarik was a wise choice in aught four?

But it isn't nothing. That's just a retarded statement to make. As I said, any member in good standing can attend and take part in the process - the only difference between a libertarian and a Libertarian is that the latter is a party member, so your entire sentence makes about as much sense as whacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man (http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2579/waving2rr.jpg) does as the mascot for Austrian economics.

As for Badnarik, I love the guy. He's still a great activist.

JMann
05-21-2008, 06:46 PM
But it isn't nothing. That's just a retarded statement to make. As I said, any member in good standing can attend and take part in the process - the only difference between a libertarian and a Libertarian is that the latter is a party member, so your entire sentence makes about as much sense as whacky waving inflatable arm flailing tube man (http://img340.imageshack.us/img340/2579/waving2rr.jpg) does as the mascot for Austrian economics.

As for Badnarik, I love the guy. He's still a great activist.

It is clear you support letting the party hacks select the nominee. The national LP has no interest in one man one vote and that is why I think of the LP as as useful as a bucket of spit. You actually like Badnarik and Ruwart (as candidates) and that speaks volumes to the uselessness of the national LP. These two have earned no respect as national candidates. They have never held public office and have shown no ability to raise money or build anything.

If you honestly think Michael Badnarik or Mary Ruwart have done anything in their lives to be POTUS than you need to set the pipe down and step away from the crack.

nate895
05-21-2008, 06:48 PM
It is clear you support letting the party hacks select the nominee. The national LP has no interest in one man one vote and that is why I think of the LP as as useful as a bucket of spit. You actually like Badnarik and Ruwart (as candidatecees) and that speaks volumes to the uselessness of the national LP. These two have earned no respect as national candidates. They have never held public office and have shown no ability to raise money or build anything.

If you honestly think Michael Badnarik or Mary Ruwart have done anything in their lives to be POTUS than you need to set the pipe down and step away from the crack.

Is it all that hard to read bills to see if their unconstitutional?

crazyfingers
05-21-2008, 06:48 PM
Viguerie did take over thirdpartywatch, and that is a shame.

http://www.independentpoliticalreport.com/ has popped up as the replacement

JMann
05-21-2008, 06:55 PM
Is it all that hard to read bills to see if their unconstitutional?

This country is so far behind that kind of question I have to question your mental stability. We would be lucky to have someone that simply wants to reduce the size of government. If you are that caught up in what is constitutional and what isn't than you are in for a lot of disappointments. At least as rational thinking is concerned.

rayzer
05-21-2008, 06:59 PM
Come say hi to me! I'll be there. Post in this thread if you are going to be in Denver this week for the LP national convention.

Swing by the radical caucus booth, I suspect I'll be hanging around there a bunch when there isn't business being conducted or a caucus going on that I need to attend or a party going on...

I wish buddy... maybe next time! ;)

nate895
05-21-2008, 07:02 PM
This country is so far behind that kind of question I have to question your mental stability. We would be lucky to have someone that simply wants to reduce the size of government. If you are that caught up in what is constitutional and what isn't than you are in for a lot of disappointments. At least as rational thinking is concerned.

So, I should give up and compromise. The time to take a stand is now, we have no time to wait. We need to fight. We are losing our sovereignty, our economy, and our freedom to bureaucrats who wish to globalize us and turn us into a social security numbers on a computer screen. We need limited government, which is embodied in the principles of the Constitution. This is actually the kind of talk I hear from McCain supporters that he's "most of what you want" and Obama "just downright bad" so you must vote for McCain because the other options can't win or are "just downright bad."

JMann
05-21-2008, 07:07 PM
So, I should give up and compromise. The time to take a stand is now, we have no time to wait. We need to fight. We are losing our sovereignty, our economy, and our freedom to bureaucrats who wish to globalize us and turn us into a social security numbers on a computer screen. We need limited government, which is embodied in the principles of the Constitution. This is actually the kind of talk I hear from McCain supporters that he's "most of what you want" and Obama "just downright bad" so you must vote for McCain because the other options can't win or are "just downright bad."

No you shouldn't give up but yes you should compromise. If you understood anything about government or politics you would know that compromising is an art. If you can't compromise or negotiate you will never be in a position of power. I guess for you and your ilk we need to just wait around for another hundred years and cross our fingers that maybe the people have a voice.

nate895
05-21-2008, 07:15 PM
No you shouldn't give up but yes you should compromise. If you understood anything about government or politics you would know that compromising is an art. If you can't compromise or negotiate you will never be in a position of power. I guess for you and your ilk we need to just wait around for another hundred years and cross our fingers that maybe the people have a voice.

My "ilk." This is laughable. Don't you understand that for our position, the compromising needs to be how rapidly our polices are implemented, not how gradually the opposition's policies are to be implemented. I don't see how we can't go to the voters with our message and lose. The reason why people haven't flocked to Paul is because he isn't fairly represented. His views are perverted. If you notice, many of the candidates who have avoided association with Congressman Paul have done well in their primary (and won). You need money, a clean image, and a clear message. Paul would have had all three, but the money came too late, and the media distorted his image and message, so he lost. It wasn't because he was too extreme, and no one thought he was too extreme, they just thought he was a liberal.

mdh
05-21-2008, 07:18 PM
It is clear you support letting the party hacks select the nominee. The national LP has no interest in one man one vote and that is why I think of the LP as as useful as a bucket of spit. You actually like Badnarik and Ruwart (as candidates) and that speaks volumes to the uselessness of the national LP. These two have earned no respect as national candidates. They have never held public office and have shown no ability to raise money or build anything.

If you honestly think Michael Badnarik or Mary Ruwart have done anything in their lives to be POTUS than you need to set the pipe down and step away from the crack.

This is just a disgusting, childish, and downright retarded statement. I'm glad you are too lazy to attend your state's convention and have no say in the process.

I'm off to Denver. I may support Barr at some point, or I may not. If I do, it'll be because he's a respected member of the Libertarian Party community, not because I'm trying to get a bunch of votes and put Hillary or Obama in the whitehouse instead of McCain.


No you shouldn't give up but yes you should compromise. If you understood anything about government or politics you would know that compromising is an art. If you can't compromise or negotiate you will never be in a position of power. I guess for you and your ilk we need to just wait around for another hundred years and cross our fingers that maybe the people have a voice.

Libertarians aren't in it to get into a position of power. Your statements prove that you are all about all that is wrong in government that we seek to destroy.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 07:18 PM
It is clear you support letting the party hacks select the nominee. The national LP has no interest in one man one vote and that is why I think of the LP as as useful as a bucket of spit. You actually like Badnarik and Ruwart (as candidates) and that speaks volumes to the uselessness of the national LP. These two have earned no respect as national candidates. They have never held public office and have shown no ability to raise money or build anything.

If you honestly think Michael Badnarik or Mary Ruwart have done anything in their lives to be POTUS than you need to set the pipe down and step away from the crack.

You show your ignorance of the process.
In louisiana, we can't hold "primary" elections in every district because we can't afford the polling places.
We don't get the free ride the GOP and DEMs do...
So, everyone registered with the party gets a call to convention.
Everyone has an opportunity to come.
Those who care to vote... vote. Those who rather not... don't.
Did I ever mention I have a severe reaction to stupid statements?
And this thread is full of them.

You are talking to two people (myself and mdh) who are active in the process. Have been doing this for years....where as this ROn Paul revolution is new.
We don't have equal access to state ran polling places.

No one is turned away.. and most of the time, not all delegate spots are filled.
People are lazy.
Everyone has equal chances to participate.
And Badnarik won because he kicked ass in the convention debate. Which makes the LP unique.
Our conventions aren't scripted.
How about you talk about something you know about... you look bad when you type stuff that proves your ignorance.

mdh
05-21-2008, 07:22 PM
I'm off to Denver now. See you guys in a week!

MelissaWV
05-21-2008, 07:26 PM
Driving mdh to the bus station in Pittsburgh ... Again if someone can toss a little money into the chip-in for food that'd be awesome. I don't ask unless it's a real need. mdh@solitox.net . This isn't a chipin for some huge insurmountable cause... $5 $10 $20 whatever would be awesome.

Thank you, and fight the good fight :)

(And to those who can't even be bothered to get up from their recliner to join the fight, but then go on complaining about the process shame on you. Yeah this has been a bitch of a strain on us getting mdh to Denver, but it wasn't that bad to get to the state convention. I'm willing to bet your state convention for the LP would have liked your input and your support, too. Complaining into the general air about how something's "not right" isn't nearly as effective as actually going out and making your voice heard to the right people.)

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 07:27 PM
I'm off to Denver now. See you guys in a week!

GOod Luck! I'll be watching on c-span.
The Louisiana delegation can be swayed, only one or two of them are really into their candidate.

JMann
05-21-2008, 07:35 PM
vYou are talking to two people (myself and mdh) who are active in the process. Have been doing this for years....where as this ROn Paul revolution is new.
We don't have equal access to state ran polling places.

I will state this again... and please don't throw insults like i don't know how the system works. The LP has an opportunity to be the first party to open up the process and take it away from party hacks. You are defending the same process that gives us Obama v. McCain, which is to let that most extreme, radical, narrow minded, fundamentalist, evangelical people select a nominee. We don't need polling places because we have the internet which is secure and a reasonable way to let people vote on a leader.

The idea that the LP likes the fact that the 'people' don't select their leader is disgusting and vile yet typical of the political process.

nate895
05-21-2008, 07:46 PM
vYou are talking to two people (myself and mdh) who are active in the process. Have been doing this for years....where as this ROn Paul revolution is new.
We don't have equal access to state ran polling places.

I will state this again... and please don't throw insults like i don't know how the system works. The LP has an opportunity to be the first party to open up the process and take it away from party hacks. You are defending the same process that gives us Obama v. McCain, which is to let that most extreme, radical, narrow minded, fundamentalist, evangelical people select a nominee. We don't need polling places because we have the internet which is secure and a reasonable way to let people vote on a leader.

The idea that the LP likes the fact that the 'people' don't select their leader is disgusting and vile yet typical of the political process.

McCain is what happens when you let non-members flood in. If you notice, the more closed the process to activists it was, the less McCain got. In WA, McCain got twice the primary vote than he got in the caucus. The closed system where only hard core people choose nominees is the best way to select people to represent your values.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 07:50 PM
The people do select the nominee. We don't allow animals to vote.

JMann
05-21-2008, 07:53 PM
McCain is what happens when you let non-members flood in. If you notice, the more closed the process to activists it was, the less McCain got. In WA, McCain got twice the primary vote than he got in the caucus. The closed system where only hard core people choose nominees is the best way to select people to represent your values.

So your answer is to let the party insiders pick the candidate? Close it down to only people that think like you. Sounds like Republicans, Democrats, Hamas et al.

I guess you are right and that is why the Libertarian Party manages and asterisk every election... you really arn't that ig'nant r u?

nate895
05-21-2008, 07:58 PM
So your answer is to let the party insiders pick the candidate? Close it down to only people that think like you. Sounds like Republicans, Democrats, Hamas et al.

I guess you are right and that is why the Libertarian Party manages and asterisk every election... you really arn't that ig'nant r u?

No, I didn't say party insiders. I said members. Why should non-Republicans choose who will represent Republicans? Why should non-Libertarians select Libertarian nominees? That is like saying we should open up our elections to Canadians since people are affected to a great extent by who we elect.

JMann
05-21-2008, 08:03 PM
I have never said non-libertarian should pick a the nominee. I said that all due paying member should have the right to vote online and until the LP makes that happen they will be the party of elitist.

nate895
05-21-2008, 08:06 PM
I have never said non-libertarian should pick a the nominee. I said that all due paying member should have the right to vote online and until the LP makes that happen they will be the party of elitist.

Computer systems are so easy to hack. High schoolers can hack into a system like that, let alone determined enemies of the LP.

JMann
05-21-2008, 08:20 PM
Computer systems are so easy to hack. High schoolers can hack into a system like that, let alone determined enemies of the LP.

i'm sure you are right there is no way to have a secure interet voting system. It isn't possible and there is no way people will ever order anything online or have confidence in an internet voting system because that may be the only way there is a paper trailz

If the Libertarian Party can't figure out their system has been hacked then i'm pretty sure I can't suppot those idiots to run the country.
Regardless you seem like someone i don't like and think that a handful of party cock suckers should pick a nominee. What is the most bizarre is that you actually think there is a better systme

nate895
05-21-2008, 08:24 PM
i'm sure you are right there is no way to have a secure interet voting system. It isn't possible and there is no way people will ever order anything online or have confidence in an internet voting system because that may be the only way there is a paper trailz

If the Libertarian Party can't figure out their system has been hacked then i'm pretty sure I can't suppot those idiots to run the country.
Regardless you seem like someone i don't like and think that a handful of party cock suckers should pick a nominee. What is the most bizarre is that you actually think there is a better systme

Funny, I'm not even an LP member, nor consider myself a libertarian much at all. A mail-in ballot sent to party members might be a good idea.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 08:40 PM
Funny, I'm not even an LP member, nor consider myself a libertarian much at all. A mail-in ballot sent to party members might be a good idea.

Yeh, Our budget is about $2000 a year total.
The one newsletter we send out usually cost more than that and we have to rely on someone to cover the difference.
What part of small, broke party don't people understand?
If we had the money of the GOP, we could send everyone a mail-in ballot, open up polls at every street corner. etc.
But that is fantasy land.
We are poor people trying to make a difference, and the jack-ass who doesn't have a clue... is insulting our efforts to do whatever we can, within our means to put a party together.
Repeat. he doesn't have a clue. His argument is meaningless.
Perhaps he would like to drop $50,000 into our state party account so we can let all the "people" get a mail-in ballot. He seems to care so much.. so- let him put his money where his mouth is..

nate895
05-21-2008, 08:52 PM
Yeh, Our budget is about $2000 a year total.
The one newsletter we send out usually cost more than that and we have to rely on someone to cover the difference.
What part of small, broke party don't people understand?
If we had the money of the GOP, we could send everyone a mail-in ballot, open up polls at every street corner. etc.
But that is fantasy land.
We are poor people trying to make a difference, and the jack-ass who doesn't have a clue... is insulting our efforts to do whatever we can, within our means to put a party together.
Repeat. he doesn't have a clue. His argument is meaningless.
Perhaps he would like to drop $50,000 into our state party account so we can let all the "people" get a mail-in ballot. He seems to care so much.. so- let him put his money where his mouth is..

How many members do you have?

Louisiana, according to the Green Papers, has 114 members.

Let's assume a ream cost $10 (which it doesn't).

At $.42/stamp, that means it would cost $47.88 to send it out.

Envelopes would cost $15, max, for three envelopes/person (one to send out, one to send back, and one for secrecy.)

The maximum it would cost in Louisiana to hold a mail-in primary would be $80.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 08:57 PM
How many members do you have?

Louisiana, according to the Green Papers, has 114 members.

Let's assume a ream cost $10 (which it doesn't).

At $.42/stamp, that means it would cost $47.88 to send it out.

Envelopes would cost $15, max, for three envelopes/person (one to send out, one to send back, and one for secrecy.)

The maximum it would cost in Louisiana to hold a mail-in primary would be $80.

Green Papers is wrong, we have over 2500 members... some counts were over 3000 registered. ( some 500 or so people were improperly labeled by their registrar of voters)
Plus you have to print the material, and that is not cheap.
Then you have to label the material. thats not cheap.
Then you have to sort the material. thats not cheap.
It cost us about $4000 to send a newsletter to our most active members.

nate895
05-21-2008, 09:00 PM
Green Papers is wrong, we have over 2500 members... some counts were over 3000 registered. ( some 500 or so people were improperly labeled by their registrar of voters)
Plus you have to print the material, and that is not cheap.
Then you have to label the material. thats not cheap.
Then you have to sort the material. thats not cheap.
It cost us about $4000 to send a newsletter to our most active members.

I'm talking about legitimate, dues paying, members. There are many times the amount of registered members than actual, paying, members of any party.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 09:03 PM
I'm talking about legitimate, dues paying, members. There are many times the amount of registered members than actual, paying, members of any party.

All registered libertarians have a right to vote on our delegation.
We have over 2500 registered members on our roles as provided by the louisiana secretary of state's office.
If we sent 114 mail-outs, that wouldn't exactly be covering all the people.
So- I want mr. ignorant to start forking over the money for our mail-out ballots.
He cares so much about every person getting to vote, even if they are too lazy to get their ass up and drive to a convention.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 09:05 PM
Oh- and not just to fund our mail-out ballots, but the mail-out ballots of all 50 LP state parties.
He cares sooooooooooooooooooo much. Yet, does nothing but complain.

nate895
05-21-2008, 09:08 PM
I see your point, torchbearer. Preferably, the state would finance the elections like they do for the major parties.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 09:14 PM
I see your point, torchbearer. Preferably, the state would finance the elections like they do for the major parties.

But the state governments are controlled by the major 2 parties, why would they allow that?
Do you know how we got major party recognition in Louisiana?
We told the independent legislators that they were grouped in with us on the ballot. ha.
They acted real quick to make sure we were identified as Libertarian on the ballot.
It wasn't because they supported our equal rights in the elections.

The government pays for the major parties conventions. WHo pays for ours?
Once again- Mr. Ignorant is all bitch and no action.
It's insulting to those of us who have been putting blood,sweat, and tears into a thankless job that give no pay... cost you everything... and with little results.. year after year.
SO he can go take a long walk over a short cliff for all I care.

nate895
05-21-2008, 09:19 PM
But the state governments are controlled by the major 2 parties, why would they allow that?
Do you know how we got major party recognition in Louisiana?
We told the independent legislators that they were grouped in with us on the ballot. ha.
They acted real quick to make sure we were identified as Libertarian on the ballot.
It wasn't because they supported our equal rights in the elections.

The government pays for the major parties conventions. WHo pays for ours?
Once again- Mr. Ignorant is all bitch and no action.
It's insulting to those of us who have been putting blood,sweat, and tears into a thankless job that give no pay... cost you everything... and with little results.. year after year.
SO he can go take a long walk over a short cliff for all I care.

I currently don't think your system is all that bad, it seems open and honest to me. I was just saying, if people want a primary, preferably the government would provide the funds to have one.

torchbearer
05-21-2008, 09:23 PM
I currently don't think your system is all that bad, it seems open and honest to me. I was just saying, if people want a primary, preferably the government would provide the funds to have one.

Ours is the best system in all the 50 states because our LP is one of the most active and effective. We lobbied to get those law changes. We won.
But no- they will not fund our primary.. even if it was on the same polling machines as the other 2 parties.
Just like the GOP state conventions... it isn't going to happen. no way. no how.
This message must be stifled.

Ideally, in an ideal world, we would all be treated equal under the law.
But this isn't the land of the free. So don't hold your breathe.
Until that day- we will hold elections that are within our financial means.
ie. state conventions at very low cost venues/hotels in the center of the state.

Not with the purpose of disenfranchising our members.. but in trying to do what we can with what we got.

torchbearer
05-22-2008, 08:37 AM
//

JMann
05-22-2008, 10:20 AM
Ours is the best system in all the 50 states because our LP is one of the most active and effective. We lobbied to get those law changes. We won.
But no- they will not fund our primary.. even if it was on the same polling machines as the other 2 parties.
Just like the GOP state conventions... it isn't going to happen. no way. no how.
This message must be stifled.

Ideally, in an ideal world, we would all be treated equal under the law.
But this isn't the land of the free. So don't hold your breathe.
Until that day- we will hold elections that are within our financial means.
ie. state conventions at very low cost venues/hotels in the center of the state.

Not with the purpose of disenfranchising our members.. but in trying to do what we can with what we got.

This can be done ONLINE at very little cost. Going to a building to vote on a computer is an so 20th century. Why not just use the computer you have in your house?

JMann
05-22-2008, 10:25 AM
Yeh, Our budget is about $2000 a year total.
The one newsletter we send out usually cost more than that and we have to rely on someone to cover the difference.
What part of small, broke party don't people understand?
If we had the money of the GOP, we could send everyone a mail-in ballot, open up polls at every street corner. etc.
But that is fantasy land.
We are poor people trying to make a difference, and the jack-ass who doesn't have a clue... is insulting our efforts to do whatever we can, within our means to put a party together.
Repeat. he doesn't have a clue. His argument is meaningless.
Perhaps he would like to drop $50,000 into our state party account so we can let all the "people" get a mail-in ballot. He seems to care so much.. so- let him put his money where his mouth is..

You will have money if you open the party up. The LP has insisted on keeping itself a small, closed minded party since the beginning. The LP has demonstrated that is wants to be small tent and not be open to negotiation or moderation.

The reason the LP is small and broke is because the platform appeals to almost no one. If the LP would simply try and become the party of smaller government and more freedom it would boom. Instead they want to run on very extremist, radical platform.

MelissaWV
05-22-2008, 11:43 AM
JMann : OK we're game. You got us. Now, how much is it going to cost to design, monitor, secure, and maintain the online voting system? Where, exactly, are these programmers that are going to drop their lives for awhile to work for free? Wha?!? You mean it costs money to do that too?!? And there are still numerous loopholes and no real way to guarantee the person on the other end of the computer is the person who's registered with the LP?!?

Well. THAT stinks.

torchbearer
05-22-2008, 01:37 PM
JMann : OK we're game. You got us. Now, how much is it going to cost to design, monitor, secure, and maintain the online voting system? Where, exactly, are these programmers that are going to drop their lives for awhile to work for free? Wha?!? You mean it costs money to do that too?!? And there are still numerous loopholes and no real way to guarantee the person on the other end of the computer is the person who's registered with the LP?!?

Well. THAT stinks.

Jmann, Contact our State Treasurer, Greg Kahn. His info is on our state website: http://louisianalibertarianparty.org/cms/index.php?option=com_contact&catid=12&Itemid=3
I told him someone who really cares will be sending us some funds to help with our delegate elections.

torchbearer
05-23-2008, 02:08 PM
Jmann- still waiting for that money so we can "open up" our party to everyone.

pendragon
06-29-2008, 04:40 PM
mdh - you back yet?
what's the word from Denver?

Kludge
07-17-2008, 09:45 AM
I'm off to Denver now. See you guys in a week!


????? Where did MDH go? This is his last post.

New York For Paul
07-17-2008, 09:47 AM
I was wondering the same thing. He has the only Owl avatar around.

Kludge
07-19-2008, 11:18 AM
????? Where did MDH go? This is his last post.

Anyone?

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 11:22 AM
MDH is awol, and that is bad for me because he is my webmaster and i don't have the info to get into my email anymore, nor remember how to add to my blog.
i've emailed him, but never got a response. i figured he was busy.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-19-2008, 11:39 AM
MDH is awol, and that is bad for me because he is my webmaster and i don't have the info to get into my email anymore, nor remember how to add to my blog.
i've emailed him, but never got a response. i figured he was busy.

Call him? Why would he run your email for you?

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 11:43 AM
Call him? Why would he run your email for you?

he host the website on his server, so my email server is also on his server.
i just control where to domain name points. i wanted to support someone within the revolution with my business instead of just some corp.
I may have his number dug away in a pm somewhere.. but i have 1000s of them to go through..

JosephTheLibertarian
07-19-2008, 11:45 AM
he host the website on his server, so my email server is also on his server.
i just control where to domain name points. i wanted to support someone within the revolution with my business instead of just some corp.
I may have his number dug away in a pm somewhere.. but i have 1000s of them to go through..

k. if you ever need a quick host for cheap, let me know. Just in case his server goes down, that would suck. I'd pay your first month :p

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 11:48 AM
k. if you ever need a quick host for cheap, let me know. Just in case his server goes down, that would suck. I'd pay your first month :p

i've paid him until december. so i will be using that service until then.

Kludge
07-19-2008, 12:08 PM
He seems to have completely disappeared. None of the websites in his sig are online and his email doesn't appear to be accepting anything.

Maybe he was a secret undercover Reptilian collecting IPs! :p

You're fucked, Torch.

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 12:18 PM
He seems to have completely disappeared. None of the websites in his sig are online and his email doesn't appear to be accepting anything.

Maybe he was a secret undercover Reptilian collecting IPs! :p

You're fucked, Torch.

I still have control over the name, i even changed the password to make sure of it.
if he has disappeared, he didn't leave with much.
I had to switch to his service because my emails had been broken into with another service. i suspect my former opponent in the congressional race was trying to see what my intentions were...and i have my reason to believe he would do that...
so i switch to matt. paid him $15 per month for email and webhosting, and for the site design. paid til december.
so i got screwed for about $120, but i didn't lose my domain name.

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 12:19 PM
doesn't make sense, Matt was just elected chairman of the central committee of the libertarian party in west virginia.
he isn't exactly low profile. someone has to chair those meetings.
Hope he's alright. something isn't adding up.

JosephTheLibertarian
07-19-2008, 12:19 PM
I still have control over the name, i even changed the password to make sure of it.
if he has disappeared, he didn't leave with much.
I had to switch to his service because my emails had been broken into with another service. i suspect my former opponent in the congressional race was trying to see what my intentions were...and i have my reason to believe he would do that...
so i switch to matt. paid him $15 per month for email and webhosting, and for the site design. paid til december.
so i got screwed for about $120, but i didn't lose my domain name.

$15 is way too much for webhosting :rolleyes:

Kludge
07-19-2008, 12:23 PM
doesn't make sense, Matt was just elected chairman of the central committee of the libertarian party in west virginia.
he isn't exactly low profile. someone has to chair those meetings.
Hope he's alright. something isn't adding up.


http://www.lpwv.org/index.php?id=25,49,0,0,1,0

Have you tried calling him?

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 12:25 PM
http://www.lpwv.org/index.php?id=25,49,0,0,1,0

Have you tried calling him?

didn't know my website was down until now. i may call him in the morning
i may get my attorney to send him a letter instead. I have attorney's on retainer, might as well use them for something.

torchbearer
07-19-2008, 12:26 PM
$15 is way too much for webhosting :rolleyes:

Well, he was also doing the webmastering and updates... so webhosting plus part time webmaster for $15 a month.