View Full Version : China's Military Might?
Allen72289
05-19-2008, 09:10 PM
Just wondering, how powerful are they vs. USA?
Kludge
05-19-2008, 09:15 PM
IIRC, they've been modernizing their military since the Belgrade embassy bombing incident in 1999. Given their vast numbers..... - But we still have nukes, they'd be stupid to try and attack us. It'd offset their plans to become the economic superpower of the world - besides, they've been gradually moving toward free markets faster then us.
Edit: And if our recent wars have proven anything, it's that our political leaders are f'kn insane and would likely use our nukes.
OptionsTrader
05-19-2008, 09:18 PM
Another country's military might will not be necessary to cripple the USA.
All that is necessary is for this country's political leadership to remain unchallenged and for the path to reamin set on financial self destruct. The status quo is all that is necessary. The USA will be crippled as Russia was crippled, financially.
Allen72289
05-19-2008, 09:25 PM
Yeah, I wonder if China would kick us when we're down, in other words when the economy tanks..
possible WW3 scenario?
Kludge
05-19-2008, 09:31 PM
Yeah, I wonder if China would kick us when we're down, in other words when the economy tanks..
possible WW3 scenario?
I doubt it, China isn't the terrible Red Country we've painted it as. They've been selling off government monopolies at an exciting rate and have been expanding their middle class faster then ours retracts.
Primbs
05-19-2008, 10:33 PM
There is some threat. They are fives times the size of our population. They have hundreds of millions of single men who could easily go into the army. So they could be a problem.
China has no problem challenging us.
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=44955
Their sub fleet is getting more aggressive.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-492804/The-uninvited-guest-Chinese-sub-pops-middle-U-S-Navy-exercise-leaving-military-chiefs-red-faced.html
Their spies are working overtime.
http://www.infosecnews.org/pipermail/isn/2007-December/015670.html
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/142125.php
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:SmEUPd557zwJ:www.military.com/Opinions/0,,Brookes_053105,00.html+chinese+navy+spies&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=18&gl=us
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/02/AR2008040203952_pf.html
They can shoot down satallites.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/TECH/space/01/18/china.missile/index.html
nate895
05-19-2008, 10:52 PM
They will have no way to attack us soon. Their population is Christianizing and Westernizing at such a rapid rate that there will eventually be more of the enemies of their repressive government than friends and people who don't care combined.
Alex Libman
05-19-2008, 11:31 PM
There's a joke about North Korea notifying China that they're ready to nuke LA, and the Chinese leadership says they'd rather see them nuke some Chinese city (not Beijing) instead. Why? If that happens, China gets billions in aid which it can invest in building up its medical infrastructure. If LA gets nuked, China is stuck with ten thousand factories making cheap plastic crap and no one to buy it.
josephadel_3
05-19-2008, 11:41 PM
Wasn't McCain gonna go to war with China? Or was that just a rumor?
Doktor_Jeep
05-20-2008, 12:04 AM
China got everything we have as per standards of living without firing a shot.
If you read Tsun Tzu, that is what they would call a total military victory.
Unlike the West where we drop a million dollar missile on a forty dollar tent and call it a victory if the camel standing next to it gets its hump blown off.
Minestra di pomodoro
05-20-2008, 12:09 AM
No nuclear power will ever start a war of aggression against another nuclear power. It's as simple as that. It's just not in their interests.
Their population is Christianizing and Westernizing at such a rapid rate that there will eventually be more of the enemies of their repressive government than friends and people who don't care combined.
:rolleyes: As if becoming Christian makes you less inclined to authoritarianism! There will be no violent revolution in China, ever. (http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/20797485/chinas_allseeing_eye/print) You cannot organize without the Chinese government knowing, you cannot communicate with mass amounts of people with their being able to intercept it. This is why the Tibetan protests were so pathetic -- and they would have been even more pathetic if the Chinese police didn't use them for footage to demonize Tibetans.
Primbs
05-20-2008, 10:50 AM
Sometimes accidents happen. Then they get compounded. When China knocked down a Navy plane, that was an "accident." When China refused to let them go, they became hostages. That comes pretty close to an act of war.
Knocking out our plane and holding our military personnel for an extended period of time.
http://209.85.215.104/search?q=cache:ydgCfZPhosQJ:www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/china/2001/prc-010406b.htm+china+and+navy+plane+and+act+of+war+an d+2001&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=25&gl=us
Other reports talk of shots being fired at the plane from Chinese jets.
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=22411
jkm1864
05-20-2008, 05:38 PM
60 million sexually frustrated single men to be more exact. I wouldn't start anything with China because it can only end in major military and citizen casualties. I think if that scenario happened it would be after WW3 started. I do not think We are far off on seein that war based on the psychopathic leaders. We need to realize that if the war with Iran starts We are on that path. I can see North Korea invading south korea, China invading taiwan, possibly problems with Venezualla & cuba. The future looks bright for the military industrial complex.
Hawk45
05-20-2008, 06:29 PM
OK first and foremost China was never considered a threat to the US as they had no Navy to speak of. They are correcting that RAPIDLY!
If you look at their Navy now you will find that over 90% of it is LESS than 20 years old while ours is OVER 20 years old in the same percentages. Add to this the fact they have bought 80 RO-RO (roll on-roll off) ships for 'supposedly' car transport from Japan. Each of these ships is capable of carrying half of a fully equipped armored division. Simple arthnatic shows that they can get 40 armored divisions here now. Point of interest we have only 8 armored divisions TOTAL in the world!
Now add in the fact that the Klinton administration sold them the technology to build REALLY quiet subs and missile guidence technology. They proved just how quiet their subs can be when they surfaced one right next to one of our first line carriers while we were having naval exercises in the Pacific. This caused some major embarrasment in US Navy circles.
Now add to this the two carriers they have bought from the Russians and the 6 Nimitz sized ones they have almost complete in their ship yards. For aircraft for these ships the Chinese have the largest fleet of vetical takeoff aircraft in the world which can take off and land almost anywhere.
The Chinese also have LARGE contingents of 'advisors' right next to the Suez Canal in Chad and a like amount in Panama working as advisors on the Canal there.
Next we have the fact that the Chinese are in total control of the best port on the West Coast of the US at the old Long Beach Naval Base which the Klintons sold to the Chinese as a 'free trade zone'.
To stop all of this would require the US pulling over 50% of the ships we have currently in mothballs and finding crews for them.
Yes, the Chinese ARE a threat we should never take likely.
Next time you are in Wal Mart just think for a second how you like funding all of this.
BTW their Army is in even better shape than their Navy!
Minestra di pomodoro
05-20-2008, 06:37 PM
Yes, the Chinese ARE a threat we should never take likely.
Why are they a threat? The United States and China are not allies, but they are not enemies.
Dequeant
05-20-2008, 11:55 PM
When China knocked down a Navy plane, that was an "accident.
No, one of our spy planes ran into a Chinese fighter sent to investigate. The chinese pilot died, our plane landed safely (but damaged) in China. China held the crew while it disassembled and used every bit of info possible from the plane.....then released them.
I would expect our military to do the same.
Hawk45
05-21-2008, 05:39 AM
Why are they a threat? The United States and China are not allies, but they are not enemies.
Because they want to replace us as the worlds superpower and mainly want what we have which is land and wealth. Add to this they are still mad at how we have treated them for over 100 years and have kept them from taking Taiwan this last 50+ years.
If you go out in the real world you will find that not everyone in the world loves us contrary to however you view the world. That is one reason they are heavily helping Iran also. They need Iran's oil just as bad as we do and WILL do what they have to to get it.
We as Americans have looked down our nose at China for so long that it has built a resentment that will take generations to correct.
IN the world there are two goals for ANY nation, they are MONEY and POWER. As much as I hate to admit it, China is being smarter as to how to achieve it now.
Don't believe it? Just ask ANY senior US military person which enemy they are preparing for now. Fully OVER 90% of the DAILY cyber attacks on our military come from China! The other 10% comes from Muslim countries.
JosephTheLibertarian
05-21-2008, 07:40 AM
We have nukes, how can they invade us? And why would they want to risk their own destruction in doing so? That's just stupid. China isn't interested in imperialism.
Who wins? No one. We nuke eachother. We both lose.
orafi
05-21-2008, 10:42 AM
No nuclear power will ever start a war of aggression against another nuclear power. It's as simple as that. It's just not in their interests.
You've never met my friends Pakistan and India.
SeanEdwards
05-21-2008, 10:50 AM
We have nukes, how can they invade us? And why would they want to risk their own destruction in doing so? That's just stupid. China isn't interested in imperialism.
Who wins? No one. We nuke eachother. We both lose.
I don't think the threat is that they will militarily invade the continental U.S. The threat is that they will replace our global empire with their own, dominating natural resources and markets for their own benefit and at our expense.
Gideon
05-21-2008, 02:18 PM
No, one of our spy planes ran into a Chinese fighter sent to investigate. The chinese pilot died, our plane landed safely (but damaged) in China. China held the crew while it disassembled and used every bit of info possible from the plane.....then released them.
I would expect our military to do the same.
The crew had the directive and the means, to self-destruct that aircraft, due to its highly sensitive mission and equipment, but the commander instead chose to "land."
It was a gift, just as much as the missile technology bequeathed to China during Clinton reign of terror #1.
I doubt it, China isn't the terrible Red Country we've painted it as. They've been selling off government monopolies at an exciting rate and have been expanding their middle class faster then ours retracts.
QFT! QFT!
When they loosen the stranglehold on some of their more spurious censorship and restrictions, China will be the replacement for America in the globe. You are exactly correct.
There was a National Geographic Magazine edition recently that was dedicated to China only, and it was unbelievably fascinating...some of the numbers were astounding.
Their leader is a technocrat, and China is taking a different route to supremacy, and if anyone listened to the two week long special on China in NPR, they have no interest in becoming a supreme military power, they want to be the economic power of the world.
acptulsa
05-21-2008, 02:30 PM
Their leader is a technocrat, and China is taking a different route to supremacy, and if anyone listened to the two week long special on China in NPR, they have no interest in becoming a supreme military power, they want to be the economic power of the world.
Oh, we took the economic as much as the military route to supremacy. In fact, unless you're a native you didn't see much evidence of our military until WWII (with brief flareups as needed before then). As for which way China leans, remember NPR didn't get into China to do those interviews by refusing to make deals and promises. Yes, the navy's growing, and since they took over production of the ancient MiG 21 they've been growing their arms sales globally. Peaceniks they ain't.
That said, it must also be said that they will soon economically own us. Seriously--pretty much all it will require is something resembling foreclosure proceedings.
JosephTheLibertarian
05-21-2008, 03:15 PM
Oh, we took the economic as much as the military route to supremacy. In fact, unless you're a native you didn't see much evidence of our military until WWII (with brief flareups as needed before then). As for which way China leans, remember NPR didn't get into China to do those interviews by refusing to make deals and promises. Yes, the navy's growing, and since they took over production of the ancient MiG 21 they've been growing their arms sales globally. Peaceniks they ain't.
That said, it must also be said that they will soon economically own us. Seriously--pretty much all it will require is something resembling foreclosure proceedings.
Peaceniks we ain't. I don't see them invading anyone.
Hawk45
05-21-2008, 04:57 PM
Peaceniks we ain't. I don't see them invading anyone.
I will bet BIG dollars you will NEVER convince Taiwan of that! LOL
BTW a 'nuke' war is winnable and not the end of the world as we know it with todays nukes. One good airburst would cripple us as a modern society with nothing technical working anymore due to EMP effects of it with NO fallout with the airburst.
The US has MANY scenarios that call for limited use of nukes with little of no lasting after effects. China has the same capability NOW.
While the after effects would not be pleasant, it would be survivable. Don't take all the TV movies as gospel as they are very inaccurate.
For example a 'suitcase nuke' is very portable and can be jumped in anywhere by a single parachutist. Even an old crippled up geezer like me can do it, and HAVE!
Why are they called suitcase nukes? It is because they are about the size of a medium sized American Tourister suitcase of the 70's and weighs about 70 pounds! What is scary is the amount of them that are missing from the Soviets stockpile of them since the breakup.
It does not take a superpower to set one off and start a chain reaction of others getting set off by other folks.
Some of us had to look at the world with our naked eyes so others could sit home nice and safe with their rose colored glasses.
I am honestly not slamming you, but you really do need to face some reality of the world that is out there.
JosephTheLibertarian
05-21-2008, 07:42 PM
I will bet BIG dollars you will NEVER convince Taiwan of that! LOL
So? Taiwan can defend itself from China. All China has done is remain bitter, I don't understand what the problem is. I also think that SK would kick NK's ass. Ohh yea, NK troops might have self-sacrifice on their side but SK's military has better technology. Numbers? Yeah, NK troops still use the old "run into the line of fire" tactic that they used in the Korean War. They get angry and nuke SK? Then how will they be able to take any land? China & the international community wouldn't tolerate that.
Danke
05-21-2008, 07:55 PM
No, one of our spy planes ran into a Chinese fighter sent to investigate. .
Do you have any idea what you just wrote?!?!
The only way a EP-3 can "run into" a fighter is on the ground.
Hawk45
05-21-2008, 08:22 PM
Do you have any idea what you just wrote?!?!
The only way a EP-3 can "run into" a fighter is on the ground.
That mid air reverse gear on the EP-3 is a wicked thing to witness. ROTFLMAO!
ie damge to the EP-3's tail and the total destruction of the Chinese fighters nose is a prime example. LOL
Taiwan may be able to defend itself but the last time I looked the US STILL has a mutual defense treaty with them that we SHOULD honor, if there is any honor left in Washington, DC. It os called the SEATO treaty and is as old as the NATO treaty.
josephadel_3
05-21-2008, 10:08 PM
Article by Mark Helprin: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/02/AR2007030201402.html
He may not be a libertarian, but nevertheless an intelligent article.
Primbs
05-21-2008, 10:49 PM
The other countries in the area can provide leverage against China. China would love to get the resources of Siberia and Russia. However, India or Pakistan can also pressure China. Indonesia, Japan and the Philippines can also pressure China.
There is a muslim insurgency in China and the Falun Gung provide resistance.
If Taiwan gets nukes, that could deter China.
Even Vietnam fought the Chinese in the late seventies.
We still have to watch China and hopefully a middle class that likes liberty emerges in China.
Allen72289
06-08-2008, 08:07 PM
The Illuminati said there will be a WW3 too, right?
silus
06-18-2008, 04:01 AM
What does this question matter. We have the nuclear capability to destroy the world.
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