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View Full Version : Who do you think was the best president in our history?




Havax
05-18-2008, 07:25 PM
Just wondering:

1) Who you guys think is the best president we've ever had?

2) Alternatively, if everyone goes for someone before 1913 and the establishment of the FRS, who do you also think was the best president after 1913?

And why?

yongrel
05-18-2008, 07:27 PM
Excluding Jefferson, who's contributions were largely pre-Presidency, I would say Calvin Coolidge or Andrew Jackson.

RonPaulVolunteer
05-18-2008, 07:31 PM
Ron Paul was. Sorry, popping back 2043 now, bye...

skyorbit
05-18-2008, 07:32 PM
No. The Only president that was completely principled and actually CUT government was Grover Cleveland.

The ONLY ONE.

If you look at there actions WHILE they were in the Presidency, he's the only one who didn't get corrupted.

Jefferson can't say that.

Jackson's responsible for the trail of tears.

College waged the war on alcohol.

Tracy

yaz
05-18-2008, 07:36 PM
Robert Taft

Mitt Romneys sideburns
05-18-2008, 07:37 PM
Gaius Baltar

Perry
05-18-2008, 07:43 PM
The nation wanted George Washington to be King and he turned it down.

yongrel
05-18-2008, 07:46 PM
No. The Only president that was completely principled and actually CUT government was Grover Cleveland.

The ONLY ONE.

If you look at there actions WHILE they were in the Presidency, he's the only one who didn't get corrupted.

Jefferson can't say that.

Jackson's responsible for the trail of tears.

College waged the war on alcohol.

Tracy

Good points. I always forget about Cleveland for some reason.

JosephTheLibertarian
05-18-2008, 07:49 PM
The nation wanted George Washington to be King and he turned it down.

I would have said, "hell yea." What we need is a benevolent dictator that doesn't ever die.

Jeremy
05-18-2008, 07:50 PM
TJ
GC
CC
ok... GW =)


Robert Taft

I wish that was an option =(

patriot2008
05-18-2008, 07:53 PM
I have no doubt Ron Paul would have been! It is this countries loss.:(

Anti Federalist
05-18-2008, 07:54 PM
Just wondering:

1) Who you guys think is the best president we've ever had?

2) Alternatively, if everyone goes for someone before 1913 and the establishment of the FRS, who do you also think was the best president after 1913?

And why?

None after 1913.

It was with the fed act and others of the "progressive" era that the concept of the unitary executive came into full flourish, and we've been living under ever since, with predictable results: bloody wars with millions dead, an empire we will bankrupt ourselves on, loss of freedom across the board, internationalism and a dollar that's worth roughly 1 cent of what it was in 1913.

DjLoTi
05-18-2008, 07:56 PM
George Washington, cuz it's the first time America came free

Zera
05-18-2008, 08:00 PM
Grover Cleveland, and Calvin Coolidge.

Coolidge also gets bonus points for being so cool.

Kludge
05-18-2008, 08:00 PM
1. John Tyler
2. Thomas Jefferson
3. Calvin Coolidge

WRellim
05-18-2008, 08:27 PM
No. The Only president that was completely principled and actually CUT government was Grover Cleveland.

The ONLY ONE.

If you look at there actions WHILE they were in the Presidency, he's the only one who didn't get corrupted.

Jefferson can't say that.

Jackson's responsible for the trail of tears.

College waged the war on alcohol.

Tracy

While I would tend to agree that Grover Cleveland was one of the best (perhaps after Jefferson)...

There are others who are sadly maligned by the "statist" historians

One of whom was, Warren G. Harding (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warren_G._Harding) (post WWI "Return to Normalcy" -- and a man who said he REALLY never wanted to be President) did a lot of dramatic reduction of Federal Government (massive reduction of income taxes, etc.) from the Wilson years as well (the guy just normally gets smeared with the "Teapot Dome" scandal -- which he had nothing to do with but since it involved members of his Cabinet... well there you have it).


.

Mr. Coolidge
05-18-2008, 08:27 PM
I just can't get over the fact that George Washington had the masses ready to give him absolute power, and he righteously refused. It's awe-inspiring. So when people ask "who was the best president?", I assume they mean "besides Washington".

Also, since people like to get Ron Paul's take on things, it's been said that the only political photo he has in his office is a picture of Grover Cleveland. So I guess that's RP's pick.

(And I could troll my namesake, but you guys got that covered...:D )

Edit: And true enough, what Rellim said about Harding. When someone criticizes Harding, it's always regarding the Cabinet scandals. On policies though, they don't even mention those--most of which were simply reversals of Wilson's policies. Which is awesome.

jrskblx125
05-18-2008, 08:30 PM
George Bush... both of them.

Kludge
05-18-2008, 08:37 PM
George Bush... both of them.

Yes, I'm glad HW gave us Dan Quayle for all of his misquotes...

amy31416
05-18-2008, 08:41 PM
I agree with many suggestions made here:

Cleveland, Coolidge, Jackson, Washington...

That said, how about leaders of the world? Are there any rulers outside of America that could make a "best of list" relative to the US?

(not trying to hijack, just thought it would be interesting)

Kludge
05-18-2008, 08:45 PM
I agree with many suggestions made here:

Cleveland, Coolidge, Jackson, Washington...

That said, how about leaders of the world? Are there any rulers outside of America that could make a "best of list" relative to the US?

(not trying to hijack, just thought it would be interesting)

Mahmoud Ahmadinejad

yongrel
05-18-2008, 08:45 PM
I agree with many suggestions made here:

Cleveland, Coolidge, Jackson, Washington...

That said, how about leaders of the world? Are there any rulers outside of America that could make a "best of list" relative to the US?

(not trying to hijack, just thought it would be interesting)

Pinochet :p

To be a bit more serious, Sir Robert Peel repealed the Corn Laws in 1846 in England, which was a pretty big plus.

amy31416
05-18-2008, 08:49 PM
Buncha goofs! thhhbtbtbt :P

JosephTheLibertarian
05-18-2008, 08:52 PM
Pinochet :p

To be a bit more serious, Sir Robert Peel repealed the Corn Laws in 1846 in England, which was a pretty big plus.

How about Stalin? He was an influential president, no? lol

DjLoTi
05-18-2008, 08:58 PM
The Czar of Russia around the American Civil war I hear was pretty good .....

Kludge
05-18-2008, 08:59 PM
How about Stalin? He was an influential president, no? lol

*shrug* Stalin gave us experimental proof of how terrible Communism is.

amy31416
05-18-2008, 09:02 PM
Heh, well, nevermind. . .wasn't curious about a list of dictators--just curious about whether or not there has been, in history, other leaders outside of the US that have been truly for the people, liberty-minded, that sort of thing.

I don't recall any aside from Americans, but I'd think there would be some precedent for the American leaders.

weslinder
05-18-2008, 09:05 PM
1) Sam Houston, and if he doesn't count, Thomas Jefferson
2) Calvin Coolidge

Jeremy
05-18-2008, 09:08 PM
I just can't get over the fact that George Washington had the masses ready to give him absolute power, and he righteously refused. It's awe-inspiring. So when people ask "who was the best president?", I assume they mean "besides Washington".

Also, since people like to get Ron Paul's take on things, it's been said that the only political photo he has in his office is a picture of Grover Cleveland. So I guess that's RP's pick.

(And I could troll my namesake, but you guys got that covered...:D )

Edit: And true enough, what Rellim said about Harding. When someone criticizes Harding, it's always regarding the Cabinet scandals. On policies though, they don't even mention those--most of which were simply reversals of Wilson's policies. Which is awesome.

Not exactly. True, Cleveland is at least one of his favorites. But I do recall him saying that the thing in his office was a gift... so it's not like he googled him and printed it out. :p

MMolloy
05-18-2008, 09:36 PM
George Washington

I use this quote ALLLLLL the time: "Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master"

WRellim
05-18-2008, 09:46 PM
Suppose one could also submit William Henry Harrison.

He NEVER increased taxes, NEVER declared or started a war, etc.

Course that's because he git sick at his inauguration and died shortly thereafter... but still.

UnReconstructed
05-18-2008, 09:56 PM
Jeff Davis

AFM
05-18-2008, 10:02 PM
Robert Taft wasn't ever President.

JosephTheLibertarian
05-19-2008, 12:05 AM
How about George Bush Jr. He's helping to ruin the GOP, so that must count for something.

kombayn
05-19-2008, 12:45 AM
I would have to say...

1.) Thomas Jefferson
2.) George Washington
3.) Abraham Lincoln
4.) Grover Cleveland
5.) Woodrow Wilson (;) j/k)

Napoleon Bonaparte as the outside world leader, people feared a French obese midget... That has balls... Him or Ghengis Khan. Easily.

Knightskye
05-19-2008, 01:26 AM
George Washington, for disliking political parties and urging neutrality in foreign affairs.

DFF
05-19-2008, 01:56 AM
Despite his propensity for violence; Andrew Jackson's gotta make the short list for shit-canning the second central bank and Lincoln should be OFF the list for suspending Habeas Corpus during the Civil War and afterwards, ushering in the age of big government.

berrybunches
05-19-2008, 02:19 AM
I will be the first to offer a foreign leader who is very democratic:

Georgia's (The country) president Mikheil Saakashvili.

I heard him on Glenn Beck talking about how he fired nearly the whole police force and gutted the government when he got elected.


From wikipedia:

Saakashvili in his inaugural speech stated that "now it is time for the government to be afraid of people.

Although the reforms initiated by President Saakashvili are considered to have mixed success, still the rate of corruption in the country has drastically reduced. According to the World Bank accounts, Georgia is named as the number one economic reformer in the world and the country ranks as 18 in term of ease of doing business, when most of the country's neighbors' are in the 100s of the World Bank's rank.

I think there is some controversy with his administration also but overall the lives of the people in Georgia have greatly improved economically and politically..

demolama
05-19-2008, 05:57 AM
I completely agree with this guy... Martin Van Buren was by far the greatest followed by Cleveland

http://www.independent.org/publications/tir/article.asp?issueID=24&articleID=289
http://www.mises.org/story/2201

MGreen
05-19-2008, 07:09 AM
Suppose one could also submit William Henry Harrison.

He NEVER increased taxes, NEVER declared or started a war, etc.

Course that's because he git sick at his inauguration and died shortly thereafter... but still.

Given what the presidency has become, I would say the best thing a president could do for the people is drop dead.

Just like Congress is at its best when it's deadlocked.

Kludge
05-19-2008, 08:38 PM
Has no one ever researched John Tyler? That man was amazing! He felt so strongly against a national bank that he vetoed a bill allowing it to be excommunicated from the Whig Party!

James Madison
05-19-2008, 08:52 PM
Yes, John Tyler was a good president. Of course, Washington and Jefferson were good philosophers but a presidents they had a few faults in particular was Washington's support of Alexander Hamilton and the National Bank. Van Buren is a vastly underrated president as is Grover Cleveland. Coolidge was pretty good as was Andrew Jackson. Actually, Eisenhower wasn't a bad president because of his opposition to the military industrial complex.

FreeTraveler
05-19-2008, 09:11 PM
Being an anarchist, I consider the term an oxymoron. :D

Jeremy
05-19-2008, 09:14 PM
Being an anarchist, I consider the term an oxymoron. :D

I'd say anarchy is as bad as total government power. Extreme opposites... both not good.

FreeTraveler
05-19-2008, 09:31 PM
I'd say anarchy is as bad as total government power. Extreme opposites... both not good.

Then you don't understand anarchy. Do you have to have a third party involved in your dealings with your friends, neighbors, and family, or are you capable of peaceful coexistance? Do you honestly believe that most people are evil and only restrained from doing bad by the presence of an armed goon on the public dole?

Who killed more people and took the most goods from productive people in the 20th century, "illegal" crooks, murderers, and gangs, or "legal" gangs of thugs called governments?

Hook
05-19-2008, 09:34 PM
You should also mention that Harding was a big proponent of women's sufferage. Women gained the right to vote under his administration, even though he got a lot of flack for it. He also had a 60~80% approval rating while in office.
I like VanBuren just because of the Seinfeld gang named after him (The VanBuren Boys). :-)

Jeremy
05-19-2008, 09:35 PM
Then you don't understand anarchy. Do you have to have a third party involved in your dealings with your friends, neighbors, and family, or are you capable of peaceful coexistance? Do you honestly believe that most people are evil and only restrained from doing bad by the presence of an armed goon on the public dole?

Who killed more people and took the most goods from productive people in the 20th century, "illegal" crooks, murderers, and gangs, or "legal" gangs of thugs called governments?

"If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

Perhaps you don't understand what it's like in anarchy because we're a lot closer to the other extreme... but you'd probably already be dead. Unless you were some sort of rich warlord...

FreeTraveler
05-19-2008, 09:39 PM
"If men were angels, no government would be necessary."

Perhaps you don't understand what it's like in anarchy because we're a lot closer to the other extreme... but you'd probably already be dead. Unless you were some sort of rich warlord...

Did you even read my post? How about responding to some of the points within, instead of spouting what you learned in a government-sponsored training center, from books that were approved by government representatives?

Oh, and if I'd passed my physical in 1970, I'd already be dead in the rice paddies of Vietnam or living in a foreign country. How's that different from being murdered or drafted by some warlord?

Kludge
05-19-2008, 09:44 PM
Who killed more people and took the most goods from productive people in the 20th century, "illegal" crooks, murderers, and gangs, or "legal" gangs of thugs called governments?

Irrelevant straw man. A minarchy (preferably all volunteer except the few full-time jobs) is preferable. All previous governments had restrictive laws that permitted aggression. Only aggression should be illegal.

FreeTraveler
05-19-2008, 09:56 PM
Irrelevant straw man. A minarchy (preferably all volunteer except the few full-time jobs) is preferable. All previous governments had restrictive laws that permitted aggression. Only aggression should be illegal.

That was pretty much the original plan, if you read the Consitution. However, to paraphrase Lysander Spooner, the Constitution either was designed to create, or failed to prevent, the current situation.

By their very nature, governments expand, and power-seekers gravitate to positions of power and control legitimized by the very concept of government. Without the legitimization of the concept of government, looters, control-freaks and jack-booted thugs would be recognized as the abberations they are and quickly put down, instead of recognized as the "norm" of society.

What has ANY government ever contributed to the improvement of man's plight? By nature, they can only loot from the producers under the threat of legitimized force.

Athan
05-19-2008, 10:26 PM
1) Who you guys think is the best president we've ever had?

Hands down George Washington. Thomas Jefferson comes second.

2) Alternatively, if everyone goes for someone before 1913 and the establishment of the FRS, who do you also think was the best president after 1913?

Eisenhower.

Athan
05-19-2008, 11:04 PM
Yes, John Tyler was a good president. Of course, Washington and Jefferson were good philosophers but a presidents they had a few faults in particular was Washington's support of Alexander Hamilton and the National Bank. Van Buren is a vastly underrated president as is Grover Cleveland. Coolidge was pretty good as was Andrew Jackson. Actually, Eisenhower wasn't a bad president because of his opposition to the military industrial complex.

Washington's support of the national bank was due in large part because of the massive debt caused by the war. Jefferson (not being as well versed in Austrian economics as Ron Paul) simply offered no alternative to Hamilton's central bank plan that was specifically drafted to address their monetary problem. And frankly, Hamilton DID know economics a HELL of a lot better than Jefferson even though he was a polymath. Debt was threatening the Republic's very existence.

Washington did in fact do something miraculous as president. He incubated the Republic and kept it from imploding on its own infighting (Newburg conspiracy, Federalist vs Democrat Republicans) and he kept it from being drawn into other conflicts. Such a thing probably wasn't possible if not for George Washington's IMMENSE worldwide fame and credibility. France admired Washington, England respected him, and Americans adored him.

He used all of that credibility to prevent the nation from imploding and setting examples of what a President of a Republic SHOULD do. We are having a problem with the central bank because of the fiat money system and income tax is devaluing American money. At that time, they had a fiat money system that was under hyper inflation. They needed to undo all that by putting a specific organization to address the problem of the country's massive debt similar to declaring bankruptcy and getting some sort of payment plan worked out that could satisfy their neighbors.

Could anybody have done a better job? No. Why? Politics. Washington was above politics and most at the time knew it. You do NOT turn down being king of a new country after keeping an army together for the sake of something like Liberty, defeat a world super power, resemble something like Rome's Cinncinatus, and not be recognized and admired for it.

Even Benjamin Franklin was probably humbled.