Action Alert, B&N FRAUD against Manifesto

[erin moore]

Ok, I'm pretty mad right now. I just got back from Barnes & Noble. I was excited to go and see the new prominent position of The Manifesto, as it is now a bestseller in every sense of the word. Also, BN offers its members 40% off bestsellers (30% to everybody else) and I was going to get a few more copies.

However, it was still in the back corner of the sotre, bottom shelf, 3 copies. (there were 6 on April 30th an I bought two of them) I was under the apparenty mistaken impression that the BN Bestseller shelves featured prominently at the front of the store were for true bestsellers and I actually thought it was tied into the NYT list. NOT AT ALL.

A book can be #1 everywhere, INCLUDING at BN.com and they won't necessarily feature it on the bestseller shelf up front. There is not hard critera, either. Whatever IS selling or is projected to sell. READ: whichever publisher PAYS for the self space. It is FRAUD.

It should be the Barnes & Noble PICKS or FEATURES. They do not have to be ebstsellers to be up there and even if they are bestsellers they may not EVER make it up there.

The gaul of these people. Every book signing he does the store sells every copy they have in stock. Our meetup group placed a really nice 1/4 page ad in the paper today. We vote on the 20th, and RP will be here the 16th and 17th. We mentioned the book and the place on the NYT and Amazon lists. Ug, I'm so irritated.

If you feel like paying more, go buy it at the brick and mortar store. If you're smart, though, you'll buy it online for 1/2 the price and thereby give more credence to their argument that it isn't a bestseller IN the store.

We need to getour machiene out and start making calls and emails again. Fox news style. :mad:

[yaz]

So just personally move one of Ron Paul's books to the featured table.

[Fields]

So did you not get the 40% since it isn't THEIR bestseller?

[RSLudlum]

Well...it is a private business. They can place the book anywhere they want in their own stores. If you have a problem with it then don't buy from them, let them know at your local B&N store how you feel and go elsewhere. If enough "The Revoulution" customers do the same, they'll get the idea, and want the business they've been sending to their competitors by choosing not to place the book in the 'spotlight'. ;)

[evilfunnystuff]

A book can be #1 everywhere, INCLUDING at BN.com and they won't necessarily feature it on the bestseller shelf up front. There is not hard critera, either. Whatever IS selling or is projected to sell. READ: whichever publisher PAYS for the self space. It is FRAUD.

email sent stating that the revolution has attorney's within our ranks and it seems more than likely that we have legal grounds for a false advertising/fraud suit against em so they may want to fix this issue asap before someone starts one

i recomend others do the same

[hillertexas]

So just personally move one of Ron Paul's books to the featured table.

that's what my mom has been doing at Borders

[erin moore]

Right, it is a private business. But a lot of towns, like this one, have one BIG bookstore where most people shop. It isn't about me wanting the book, it's about people knowing about it and having access to it.

No, it didn't get 40% off. They offer the standard 10% discount you get with paid membership and nothing if you don't have one.

We all need to call and send emails to let them know we will be buying the book "elsewhere." They made it abundantly clear to me that they had no decision making power at the local store. (and didn't really care either) If we all send an emai and make a phone call we can force a change in their practices.

Actually I have moved the books around the store. I leave one on the tbale where the reading chairs are and put one up front. They move them back pretty quickly.

[slacker921]

... and not unlike grocery stores where the vendors/suppliers pay (mostly in discounts or higher margins to the store) to have their products placed in different parts of the store. It's not fraud, it's just how the business works and has worked for a long time. If the store makes more money per sale then they're more likely to display it prominently.

And.. more than likely the store manager doesn't have a say in what is shown in the "bestseller" display. That's something that is probably set by the buyers at the corporate office.

[RSLudlum]

email sent stating that the revolution has attorney's within our ranks and it seems more than likely that we have legal grounds for a false advertising/fraud suit against em so they may want to fix this issue asap before someone starts one

i recomend others do the same


sorry i can't use the 'lawsuit' threat, i'd much rather use the "loss of future profits due to bad promotional/product placement policies" arguement first. :)

[erin moore]

yes it is fraud. if they want to call it something else, then fine, but they are nhot all bestsellers, and this book is. its deceptive.


email sent stating that the revolution has attorney's within our ranks and it seems more than likely that we have legal grounds for a false advertising/fraud suit against em so they may want to fix this issue asap before someone starts one

i recomend others do the same

can you post the address you sent it to please? broken link.

[Fields]

Right, it is a private business. But a lot of towns, like this one, have one BIG bookstore where most people shop. It isn't about me wanting the book, it's about people knowing about it and having access to it.

No, it didn't get 40% off. They offer the standard 10% discount you get with paid membership and nothing if you don't have one.

We all need to call and send emails to let them know we will be buying the book "elsewhere." They made it abundantly clear to me that they had no decision making power at the local store. (and didn't really care either) If we all send an emai and make a phone call we can force a change in their practices.

Actually I have moved the books around the store. I leave one on the tbale where the reading chairs are and put one up front. They move them back pretty quickly.

15% off coupon --- http://www.barnesandnoble.com/email/nav.asp?r=1&PID=22715

[erin moore]

... and not unlike grocery stores where the vendors/suppliers pay (mostly in discounts or higher margins to the store) to have their products placed in different parts of the store. It's not fraud, it's just how the business works and has worked for a long time. If the store makes more money per sale then they're more likely to display it prominently.

No, it is fraud. Look at it this way: You walk into the grocery store and the butcher tells you Mr. Smith this is my bestselling cut of meat. All the other customers love it and I recommend you get it also. In fact, the farmer paid him to say that to you and the real quality stuff, the stuff most people really want and tend to buy is hidden in the back and you have to know it is there and ask for it. FRAUD.


And.. more than likely the store manager doesn't have a say in what is shown in the "bestseller" display. That's something that is probably set by the buyers at the corporate office.

correct. the local managers have No say. this is corporate. That is why we need to email and call.

[sratiug]

Main Entry: best sell·er
Pronunciation: \ˈbes(t)-ˈse-lər\
Function: noun
Date: 1889
: an article (as a book) whose sales are among the highest of its class
— best–sell·er·dom \-dəm\ noun
— best–sell·ing \-ˈse-liŋ\ adjective

[erin moore]

sorry i can't use the 'lawsuit' threat, i'd much rather use the "loss of future profits due to bad promotional/product placement policies" arguement first. :)


EXACTLY.

[evilfunnystuff]

yes it is fraud. if they want to call it something else, then fine, but they are nhot all bestsellers, and this book is. its deceptive.



can you post the address you sent it to please? broken link.

go to this link click a cust service issue then scroll to the bottom and it gives you an option to email

h ttp://www.barnesandnoble.com/help/customer_service/index.asp?cds2Pid=20613&linkid=1062758

[slacker921]

"bestseller" .. in.. . your county? .. "bestseller" at the convention where the buyers bought the books from? your state? the entire US? among their regular shoppers? .. it's a vague thing like "new and improved". It's a marketing gimmick.

btw.. My local Books-a-million doesn't have Ron Paul's book in their display of "bestsellers".. go after them too.

[tonyr1988]

Remember - it's not #1 Bestseller on the NYTimes list until another week or so (don't remember exact date). They "leak" them ahead of time. I'd check back after the "effective date" of the list. If it's not in the bestsellers, complain like crazy.

[NightOwl]

Here's a direct link (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/help/customer_service/cs_cds2.asp?PID=7985&) to customer service inquiries regarding B&N retail stores. Scroll down and you can send them an email.

In an angry moment I wrote this:

Count me among the legions who are extremely disappointed in B&N's bizarre behavior: according to today's New York Times, Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifesto is #7 in the country, yet the few copies your stores have are buried in the back somewhere. On the May 18 NYT list the book is at #1. Number one! And buried in your stores.

It's #2 on the Wall Street Journal list, sold out on Amazon (where it hit #1 on release), sold out at buy.com, and sold out at walmart.com.

And Barnes & Noble stocks three copies in the back of the store.

I guess I'm not following why you wouldn't keep up with, you know, books that are selling, and why you wouldn't want to get a piece of this.

It's #15 on your own site, for heaven's sake, and that includes paperbacks and fiction.

LOTS of people are upset about this. Please do the sensible thing and stock your stores. Thank you.

[NightOwl]

Remember - it's not #1 Bestseller on the NYTimes list until another week or so (don't remember exact date). They "leak" them ahead of time. I'd check back after the "effective date" of the list. If it's not in the bestsellers, complain like crazy.

Today's the effective date that the book is #7, and booksellers knew this 10 days ago. They knew it was skyrocketing up the Amazon charts months ago. How blockheaded can they be?

[Fields]

Wow amazon now says: In stock on July 16, 2008

[MRoCkEd]

Wow amazon now says: In stock on July 16, 2008
yeah just noticed



what the hell?????????????????????????????????????????????? ???????????????????????????????????????????????

[Cinderella]

so do what i did...i moved all the copies and placed them over obamas books :D

[erin moore]

Here's a direct link (http://www.barnesandnoble.com/help/customer_service/cs_cds2.asp?PID=7985&) to customer service inquiries regarding B&N retail stores. Scroll down and you can send them an email.

In an angry moment I wrote this:

Count me among the legions who are extremely disappointed in B&N's bizarre behavior: according to today's New York Times, Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifesto is #7 in the country, yet the few copies your stores have are buried in the back somewhere. On the May 18 NYT list the book is at #1. Number one! And buried in your stores.

It's #2 on the Wall Street Journal list, sold out on Amazon (where it hit #1 on release), sold out at buy.com, and sold out at walmart.com.

And Barnes & Noble stocks three copies in the back of the store.

I guess I'm not following why you wouldn't keep up with, you know, books that are selling, and why you wouldn't want to get a piece of this.

It's #15 on your own site, for heaven's sake, and that includes paperbacks and fiction.

LOTS of people are upset about this. Please do the sensible thing and stock your stores. Thank you.


Add: sold out on tower.com, eruditor.com, alibris.com,

At least you can always get it at eradable.com or in audio format.

[sratiug]

The book is selling out. The store managers are reading the books and then hiding them because they don't want to trade their valuable books for worthless fiat money.

[Knightskye]

I thought it was New York Times Bestseller on May 18th. If I recall correctly, May 18th is next Sunday. :rolleyes:

[MRoCkEd]

and once again -
not on amazon until JULY???

[NightOwl]

I thought it was New York Times Bestseller on May 18th. If I recall correctly, May 18th is next Sunday. :rolleyes:

No, it's on the list as of May 11 (today). It's on the list at #1 as of May 18.

[NightOwl]

and once again -
not on amazon until JULY???

The publisher HAS TO get on top of this. That is another absurd estimate from Amazon.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Well once they start asking for them more and more they will end up stocking and promoting them I think. Money is money to a business i'm sure.

We need to get people buying the manifesto ALOT for it to create real buzz. Once the #1 list comes out I feel it will end up featured on many topshelfs in bookstores across the nation.

Remember it is the publisher they would be doing something wrong to NOT Ron Paul. As the publisher I would MAKE SURE wherever we have contracts that ALL of the authors get a ton of coverage just like any other.

Also since Ron Paul is a celebrity in his own right, the publisher KNOWS Ron Paul's name attached to anything would be pure gold and HOPEFULLY will make sure it gets displayed EVERYWHERE.

Those are my thoughts on it at least.

[Time for Change]

So just personally move one of Ron Paul's books to the featured table.

+1

THat's what I did...several times.:D

[rathskeller]

Seriously...anyone making threats of lawsuits for fraud are doing so much harm to Ro Paul's cause. Things that make Ron Paul's supporters appear ignorant are not helpful. And calling this fraud is extremely ignorant. Humorously so.

Also...did it ever occur to anyone that this store simply doesn'tUPDATE their best sellers on a weekly, basis? My god...instead of looking for reasons to humiliate yourselves with your lack of legal knowledge, how about checking things out first?

[runningdiz]

They are a private buisness they can do what they want. Why dont you protest them by not buying your book so there. That will help the book get on the bestsellers list!! ;) Pointless thread....

[CurtisLow]

So just personally move one of Ron Paul's books to the featured table.

my-ass move them all up front. I wish I was there...

[Joseph Hart]

Where do you live? What B&N location? Ill pretend they are all sold out at my local B&N and ask them to get a transfer from your location since I know they are in stock. :)
KEEP BUYING COPIES!!!!

[libertarian4321]

I picked up a copy at the local Barnes and Noble.

They cleverly "hid" it in the "politics" section...

Guys, Barnes and Noble ain't "hiding" anything- they want to sell as many books as possible- and they really don't care if its written by Ron Paul, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, or Adolf Hitler.

Remember, not everything that isn't just the way you like it is a "conspiracy."

[RPTXState]

Ron Paul is the best candidate by far, but some of his supporters are so paranoid they jump the gun and panic over the smallest issues.

Sadly, I'm beginning to see why we get a bad rap sometimes.

[Joseph Hart]

If we get a strong enough demand for more copies in the stores it will be granted! These stores WANT to sell books!

[braeden0613]

I bought it from B&N online (thru a1 books i think) and it said it was shipped but after a few days they sent me a refund with no explanation. Kinda weird but ill be buying it tomorrow at an actual store.

[Sandman]

I saw the y same thing at my local store.I just took the 4 copies and placed them right on top of Mccains book on the table.the next day there was 1 left.I'm chalking it up as the ding a lings that work there.

[Knut Schreiber]

Seriously...anyone making threats of lawsuits for fraud are doing so much harm to Ro Paul's cause. Things that make Ron Paul's supporters appear ignorant are not helpful. And calling this fraud is extremely ignorant. Humorously so.

Also...did it ever occur to anyone that this store simply doesn'tUPDATE their best sellers on a weekly, basis? My god...instead of looking for reasons to humiliate yourselves with your lack of legal knowledge, how about checking things out first?

QFT!

We want to win over people. We don't want to appear as a paranoid, lunatic mob.

[ruggedindividualist]

I picked up a copy at the local Barnes and Noble.

They cleverly "hid" it in the "politics" section...

Guys, Barnes and Noble ain't "hiding" anything- they want to sell as many books as possible- and they really don't care if its written by Ron Paul, Hillary Clinton, John McCain, or Adolf Hitler.

Remember, not everything that isn't just the way you like it is a "conspiracy."

True, not everything is a conspiracy, but these big box outfits are not promoting this truly bestselling book the way they did Obamas drivel or Hillarys socialist screed (which Walmart featured prominently but I have yet to see Ron Pauls book there...anywhere). They don't want people to have liberty and knowledge, they are part of the propaganda ministry. The beauty part is, people go in and pay for the propaganda, unless they have a specific book in mind and are not just browsing. I don't even bother with them any more. Too many snide and precious clerks, the inventory full of socialist and New Age garbage, too expensive, too easy to browse at home and have it delivered to my mailbox. They are a private business that doesn't sell what you want. Take your money elsewhere, vote with your wallet, buy copies online and donate them to your local library and churches. Make them irrelevant, that is the sweetest revenge.

[Ninja Homer]

It looks to me like the real problem may be with the publisher not being able to keep up with demand. If Amazon now has an "in stock" date of July 16th (more than 2 months from now!), can Barnes & Noble get them in stock?

If Barnes & Noble can't get any more because the publisher isn't putting them out fast enough, why would B&N bother putting them in their Bestsellers section, since many stores are selling out as it is?

If the publisher can't keep up with demand, Ron Paul should think about moving to a different publisher that can keep up with demand.

When a book is the NYT #1 best seller, it should be in every store that has books; Target, Walmart, drug stores, grocery stores, not to mention every library. If they can't produce enough books for the stores it's currently offered at, how are they going to put books in all these other locations?

I don't have all the facts, so I'm not 100% sure this is the case. I'm just going by the evidence available.

[NightOwl]

It looks to me like the real problem may be with the publisher not being able to keep up with demand. If Amazon now has an "in stock" date of July 16th (more than 2 months from now!), can Barnes & Noble get them in stock?

If Barnes & Noble can't get any more because the publisher isn't putting them out fast enough, why would B&N bother putting them in their Bestsellers section, since many stores are selling out as it is?

If the publisher can't keep up with demand, Ron Paul should think about moving to a different publisher that can keep up with demand.

When a book is the NYT #1 best seller, it should be in every store that has books; Target, Walmart, drug stores, grocery stores, not to mention every library. If they can't produce enough books for the stores it's currently offered at, how are they going to put books in all these other locations?

I don't have all the facts, so I'm not 100% sure this is the case. I'm just going by the evidence available.

This is not the publisher's fault. The publisher can't make outlets order more than they do. How many they order is up to them. If they then sell out and need to wait a week to 10 days to get more, that is their problem for being foolish.

As for Amazon, I assure you the July 16 date is a fantasy. That is Amazon's problem, not the publisher's. If I were the publisher I would be SCREAMING at Amazon to take down that ridiculous date.

[yongrel]

I walk by the local Barnes & Noble on the way to the bagle shop every day, and if I have time, I run in and set up my own display of The Revolution. The employees are too lazy to change it, so it's just the manager who does anything about it. At the time of this writing, 8 copies of the Manifesto are currently displayed prominently at the front of the store on the table in front of the entrance. People look at you funny when you carry a large stack of the books to the front of the store, but c'est la vie.

[LittleLightShining]

Maybe it's time to start buying books from independent booksellers again.

[Phantom]

post deleted by me.

[Shinerxx]

I just moved a stack of books to the front of my local B&N. It took me far too long to find them. On the Rear-bottom shelf of the new arrivals. They are now the first books you see when you enter the store.

[constituent]

I just moved a stack of books to the front of my local B&N. It took me far too long to find them. On the Rear-bottom shelf of the new arrivals. They are now the first books you see when you enter the store.

Shiner..... texas?

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

The real world doesn't move as fast as online.

This book will be front-and-center after a few weeks as a bestseller once they compile their data and see how it's selling in the stores.

Relax for a few weeks and see what happens instead of getting all emo and wanting your feelings fixed this instant

[Kade]

Ok, I'm pretty mad right now. I just got back from Barnes & Noble. I was excited to go and see the new prominent position of The Manifesto, as it is now a bestseller in every sense of the word. Also, BN offers its members 40% off bestsellers (30% to everybody else) and I was going to get a few more copies.

However, it was still in the back corner of the sotre, bottom shelf, 3 copies. (there were 6 on April 30th an I bought two of them) I was under the apparenty mistaken impression that the BN Bestseller shelves featured prominently at the front of the store were for true bestsellers and I actually thought it was tied into the NYT list. NOT AT ALL.

A book can be #1 everywhere, INCLUDING at BN.com and they won't necessarily feature it on the bestseller shelf up front. There is not hard critera, either. Whatever IS selling or is projected to sell. READ: whichever publisher PAYS for the self space. It is FRAUD.

It should be the Barnes & Noble PICKS or FEATURES. They do not have to be ebstsellers to be up there and even if they are bestsellers they may not EVER make it up there.

The gaul of these people. Every book signing he does the store sells every copy they have in stock. Our meetup group placed a really nice 1/4 page ad in the paper today. We vote on the 20th, and RP will be here the 16th and 17th. We mentioned the book and the place on the NYT and Amazon lists. Ug, I'm so irritated.

If you feel like paying more, go buy it at the brick and mortar store. If you're smart, though, you'll buy it online for 1/2 the price and thereby give more credence to their argument that it isn't a bestseller IN the store.

We need to getour machiene out and start making calls and emails again. Fox news style. :mad:


I love the free market.

[Alex Libman]

Yeah, in a Howell, NJ B&N I found it in a very unremarkable place, a low shelf of the Current Events section, and it cost around $22 with tax... (I really needed an extra copy ASAP for a gift.)