What we're up against...good God

[Catatonic]

This is from another forum. Luckily there are quite a few Ron Paul supporters on this forum, and this is from a discussion of the parallels between Obama's policies and Marxism.

The nay-sayers were quickly forced to admit that while Obama doesn't openly support Marxism, his campaign platform is much more similar to the communist manifesto than the constitution.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with you all. This is a post I made, the parts in bold are the comments that were added by the Obama people.

"I gotta disagree on some points.

Most of the things you're pointing your finger at capitalism for are a result of socialism. Do you really think we live in a capitalist country?

Yes, we do.

Most people aren't greedy, but they want to be able to take care of themselves. Even if you consider the average person to be greedy, which probably isn't inaccurate, you can't force them to stop being greedy and wanting more out of life.

"Human nature" isn't fixed, according to Marx. Our essence is our capacity for production for a means to live, but our nature is tied to that and our nature changes with how we produce. You're right to say you can't force people to change which is why Marx doesn't see communism as something that can be forced. Communism arises at the right time when the material conditions are right.

Capitalism doesn't force you to do anything. If we were truely capitalist you wouldn't see mega corporations dominating everything and treating people like slaves. The basis of capitalism is competition, if you don't want more from life enough to go the extra step to fight for it, then you won't get it. If you do, then you probably will. Real capitalism opens the door for a lot more entrepreneurship. The only way to kill competition and turn employees into quasi slaves is with over regulation, which is not an aspect of free market capitalism.

By definition working for wage labor is quasi slavery. The capitalist, the one who owns the means of production, must exploit your labor to receive some surplus capital. You do not receive that which is equal to what you produce. Not only that, you are alienated from your product- you do not own what you produce and you have no rights to say what happens to your product or where it goes.

Capitalism treats everyone equally in the respect that everyone has an equal opportunity to make something of themselves. The result of that is some will have more and some will have less. Without big brother to quash competition you'll have to fight to maintain any leverage.

Its kind of foolish to think everyone is equal under capitalism. Oppurtunities are highly contingent including what color or sex you are born. Why have this fetish for competition?

Marx is right, this will lead to division, but most people will fall somewhere in the middle of richness and poverty, and no one's position will be set in stone. The opportunity to change will always be there, for everyone.

How can you argue that capitalism turns you into a commodity? I think you're referring to the way things are currently in this country, which is somewhere between fascism and socialism.

You sell you[r labor.]

People can lose themselves in greed and become tools, but its not forced upon them the way it is with socialism. Robots work for free, people work based on incentive. Take that incentive away and you take the person out of the picture.

I think you are more pro socialist than I had expected, I was hoping for more of an unbiased opinion.

In a feudal state serfs do the work they're told to do, and in return they get protection, food, shelter. How is this so far from communism?"

Wage earning is slavery, forced equal distribution is freedom to these people. At least I got them to quit the charade and admit they support communism.

I didn't realize Americans had progressed this far to the left. :(

[Truth Warrior]

Scary, isn't it?

[Ozwest]

Just keep printing more money.

[OhioMichael]

The most frightening part is that the nay-sayers in this case are more intelligent than 80% of the American people. They have been taught to think in this backwards way by schooling, the media, etc...

As we continue to preach our message of peace, prosperity, and personal responsibility, the intellectual tide will start to shift to our side....

Our movement continues to educate friends, family, and interested peoples. The truth is not hard to see. It is merely a matter of time before opinion begins to swing back to our favor.

[Bossobass]

Just keep printing more money.


...and credit cards.

Bosso

[dannno]

The most frightening part is that the nay-sayers in this case are more intelligent than 80% of the American people. They have been taught to think in this backwards way by schooling, the media, etc...

As we continue to preach our message of peace, prosperity, and personal responsibility, the intellectual tide will start to shift to our side....

Our movement continues to educate friends, family, and interested peoples. The truth is not hard to see. It is merely a matter of time before opinion begins to swing back to our favor.

+1

[Truth Warrior]

Interestingly the Neoconservatives origins are left also. (Trotskyite) Hmmmm?

[Catatonic]

The most frightening part is that the nay-sayers in this case are more intelligent than 80% of the American people. They have been taught to think in this backwards way by schooling, the media, etc...

As we continue to preach our message of peace, prosperity, and personal responsibility, the intellectual tide will start to shift to our side....

Our movement continues to educate friends, family, and interested peoples. The truth is not hard to see. It is merely a matter of time before opinion begins to swing back to our favor.

True, these are the intelligent ones that understand Marxism and the German philosophy that spawned it.

Even scarier are the ones that shout that we need to:

1) End war
2) Fix the economy
3) End the federal reserve
4) Promote and defend more constitutional liberty

And the person they whole heartedly feel is the one to do all of these things is Obama. They talk like Ron Paul supporters on the issues but then somehow come to the conclusion the path to fixing things is socialism.

I just don't get it, the level of brainwashing is just incredible to me. How do we combat this? Or are these people a lost cause? Has anyone ever 'woken up' someone like this?

[Truth Warrior]

Cognitive dissonance is rampant. Childhood "brainwash" programming in government schools, runs very deep and is very tough to overcome.

Take the red pill. :)

[Ozwest]

No need to get philosophical.

The U.S. economy is stuffed.

No way to stop inflation.

What do you think/

[Truth Warrior]

No need to get philosophical.

The U.S. economy is stuffed.

No way to stop inflation.

What do you think/

See! :D

[Ozwest]

See! :D

GOLDFINGER.:eek:

[Catatonic]

No need to get philosophical.

The U.S. economy is stuffed.

No way to stop inflation.

What do you think/

Thats what I mean, they understand this, but they believe Obama will fix this by:
Ending the war (which he's made very clear he doesn't intend to do any time soon)

And by stealing profits from the 'rich' to fund social programs. They seem to have made a boogey man out of 'the rich' the way Bush has done with al Qaeda.

Nearly everything they say is a contradiction of themselves, and while they are constantly pushing pro-obama discussion, its never anything more substantial than straw man arguments, unless its blatant Marxist rhetoric. It's like I'm stuck in 1984 with people shouting that slavery is freedom.

Sorry, I'm venting a little here, need to converse with some sane people before I lose it :)

[Truth Warrior]

GOLDFINGER.:eek:
See! :D

[Theocrat]

It looks to me as if some people need to put this down:

http://www.biblestudysite.com/communist%20manifesto%20-%20cover%20picture.jpg

and pick up one of these:

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/218/503366011_b2a9c391b5.jpg?v=0

[Ozwest]

Thats what I mean, they understand this, but they believe Obama will fix this by:
Ending the war (which he's made very clear he doesn't intend to do any time soon)

And by stealing profits from the 'rich' to fund social programs. They seem to have made a boogey man out of 'the rich' the way Bush has done with al Qaeda.

Nearly everything they say is a contradiction of themselves, and while they are constantly pushing pro-obama discussion, its never anything more substantial than straw man arguments, unless its blatant Marxist rhetoric. It's like I'm stuck in 1984 with people shouting that slavery is freedom.

Sorry, I'm venting a little here, need to converse with some sane people before I lose it :)

Too late now my friend.

Batten down the hatches.:o

[Truth Warrior]

Thats what I mean, they understand this, but they believe Obama will fix this by:
Ending the war (which he's made very clear he doesn't intend to do any time soon)

And by stealing profits from the 'rich' to fund social programs. They seem to have made a boogey man out of 'the rich' the way Bush has done with al Qaeda.

Nearly everything they say is a contradiction of themselves, and while they are constantly pushing pro-obama discussion, its never anything more substantial than straw man arguments, unless its blatant Marxist rhetoric. It's like I'm stuck in 1984 with people shouting that slavery is freedom.

Sorry, I'm venting a little here, need to converse with some sane people before I lose it :)
Ah, part of the NWO fanbase, just ahead of their time.

[Ozwest]

See! :D
Meaningful dialogue.:D

[Truth Warrior]

Meaningful dialogue.:D
Better! :D

[apropos]

It's kind of incredible that people still take Marx (much less communism) seriously after we have seen the so-called "Great Experiment" tried time and time again in the 20th Century. And time and again, on a variety of continents and in a wide berth of cultures, Marxism and Communism has failed - collapsed under its own weight.

It will not work because it cannot work. I had hoped tens of millions of deaths and decades of squandered effort would prove that.

[Ozwest]

Better! :D

Happiness is a warm gun and a safe full of Gold.

Ahhh...

[Truth Warrior]

It's kind of incredible that people still take Marx (much less communism) seriously after we have seen the so-called "Great Experiment" tried time and time again in the 20th Century. And time and again, on a variety of continents and a wide berth of cultures, Marxism and Communism has failed - collapsed under its own weight.

It will not work because it cannot work. I had hoped tens of millions of deaths and decades of squandered effort would prove that.
They just went underground into the AGW crusade.

[A Ron Paul Rebel]

ask them if they ever tried to start a business.'

And if so, ask them if regulations impeded the
growth and success of it!

And if they haven't, ask them if regulations have
kept them from trying to start one.

[Truth Warrior]

Happiness is a warm gun and a safe full of Gold.

Ahhh...
Where's your safe? :D

[Ozwest]

It's kind of incredible that people still take Marx (much less communism) seriously after we have seen the so-called "Great Experiment" tried time and time again in the 20th Century. And time and again, on a variety of continents and in a wide berth of cultures, Marxism and Communism has failed - collapsed under its own weight.

It will not work because it cannot work. I had hoped tens of millions of deaths and decades of squandered effort would prove that.

Are you a bunny? Maybe you are a part of the "Great Experiment."

Think about it.

[Ozwest]

Where's your safe? :D
Buried under 20 kg. of illegal substances.

[Truth Warrior]

Buried under 20 kg. of illegal substances.
:cool: Any location hints? :D

[Ozwest]

:cool: Any location hints? :D
An airport close to the Clintons...

[Truth Warrior]

An airport close to the Clintons...
Mena? JFK? La Guardia? Reagan? :D

[Ozwest]

Mena? JFK? La Guardia? Reagan? :D

I love a Governor in the south. Direct flight path from Nicaragua.

[Truth Warrior]

I love a Governor in the south. Direct flight path from Nicaragua.
Hmmmm? What do you think of Huckabee? :D

[Libertytree]

LOL...Actually, Nicaragua doesn't seem quite as bad.

[Ozwest]

LOL...Actually, Nicaragua doesn't seem quite as bad.
Me... Bobby Mcgee... and the Governor.

[Ozwest]

Hmmmm? What do you think of Huckabee? :D

A fake.

[aravoth]

This is from another forum. Luckily there are quite a few Ron Paul supporters on this forum, and this is from a discussion of the parallels between Obama's policies and Marxism.

The nay-sayers were quickly forced to admit that while Obama doesn't openly support Marxism, his campaign platform is much more similar to the communist manifesto than the constitution.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with you all. This is a post I made, the parts in bold are the comments that were added by the Obama people.

"I gotta disagree on some points.

Most of the things you're pointing your finger at capitalism for are a result of socialism. Do you really think we live in a capitalist country?

Yes, we do.

Most people aren't greedy, but they want to be able to take care of themselves. Even if you consider the average person to be greedy, which probably isn't inaccurate, you can't force them to stop being greedy and wanting more out of life.

"Human nature" isn't fixed, according to Marx. Our essence is our capacity for production for a means to live, but our nature is tied to that and our nature changes with how we produce. You're right to say you can't force people to change which is why Marx doesn't see communism as something that can be forced. Communism arises at the right time when the material conditions are right.

Capitalism doesn't force you to do anything. If we were truely capitalist you wouldn't see mega corporations dominating everything and treating people like slaves. The basis of capitalism is competition, if you don't want more from life enough to go the extra step to fight for it, then you won't get it. If you do, then you probably will. Real capitalism opens the door for a lot more entrepreneurship. The only way to kill competition and turn employees into quasi slaves is with over regulation, which is not an aspect of free market capitalism.

By definition working for wage labor is quasi slavery. The capitalist, the one who owns the means of production, must exploit your labor to receive some surplus capital. You do not receive that which is equal to what you produce. Not only that, you are alienated from your product- you do not own what you produce and you have no rights to say what happens to your product or where it goes.

Capitalism treats everyone equally in the respect that everyone has an equal opportunity to make something of themselves. The result of that is some will have more and some will have less. Without big brother to quash competition you'll have to fight to maintain any leverage.

Its kind of foolish to think everyone is equal under capitalism. Oppurtunities are highly contingent including what color or sex you are born. Why have this fetish for competition?

Marx is right, this will lead to division, but most people will fall somewhere in the middle of richness and poverty, and no one's position will be set in stone. The opportunity to change will always be there, for everyone.

How can you argue that capitalism turns you into a commodity? I think you're referring to the way things are currently in this country, which is somewhere between fascism and socialism.

You sell you[r labor.]

People can lose themselves in greed and become tools, but its not forced upon them the way it is with socialism. Robots work for free, people work based on incentive. Take that incentive away and you take the person out of the picture.

I think you are more pro socialist than I had expected, I was hoping for more of an unbiased opinion.

In a feudal state serfs do the work they're told to do, and in return they get protection, food, shelter. How is this so far from communism?"

Wage earning is slavery, forced equal distribution is freedom to these people. At least I got them to quit the charade and admit they support communism.

I didn't realize Americans had progressed this far to the left. :(

doesn't this guy realize that the most crucial pillar in this system is central economic planning? Free market capitalism does not have a central banking model. So, how can he say we are a capitalistic society, when we have soviet style central economic planning?

[Truth Warrior]

doesn't this guy realize that the most crucial pillar in this system is central economic planning? Free market capitalism does not have a central banking model. So, how can he say we are a capitalistic society, when we have soviet style central economic planning? The income tax is a plank in the manifesto too. To collect the interest payments for the central bank, I guess. :D

[Theocrat]

doesn't this guy realize that the most crucial pillar in this system is central economic planning? Free market capitalism does not have a central banking model. So, how can he say we are a capitalistic society, when we have soviet style central economic planning?

These Marxist apologists for Obama also are missing a very important tenet of any free society--the right to have private property. The elimination of central economic planning isn't enough; the central government must not assume that it owns the means of production in any wise, which means that individuals and families are free heirs to pursue and own their own property that they may produce as much as they are willing and able to in order to meet and increase their surpluses in a fair, competitive economy, based on supply and demand of goods and services.

[aravoth]

These Marxist apologists for Obama also are missing a very important tenet of any free society--the right to have private property. The elimination of central economic planning isn't enough; the central government must not assume that it owns the means of production in any wise, which means that individuals and families are free heirs to pursue and own their own property that they may produce as much as they are willing and able to in order to meet and increase their surpluses in a fair, competitive economy, based on supply and demand of goods and services.

They can try and take it.

[Theocrat]

They can try and take it.

True, and in a democracy, the majority can simply vote to take away the private property of others. That's usually what happens in nations with a strong Communist base.

[Ozwest]

I am reaching the conclusion that Government, and the administration of it, is proportional to the population.

Central planning does not work in a Country of 280 million, but it may work in Australia with a population of 18 million.

State by State. It makes sense.

[Truth Warrior]

They can try and take it.
They'll just send in the "bankster" agents, after the collapse and default, to collect their collateral. :p

[Catatonic]

doesn't this guy realize that the most crucial pillar in this system is central economic planning? Free market capitalism does not have a central banking model. So, how can he say we are a capitalistic society, when we have soviet style central economic planning?

I went through Marx's 10 planks of a communist society with these people, and eventually they admitted that according to Marx we're a communist nation, or at least deeply socialist.

Yet, they blame everything wrong with this country on capitalism. Even irrelevant crap like 'greed'.

America is full of greedy capitalist snakes! Its time for Obama(and Marxism)!

Seriously, this is the level of insanity we're up against.

I even went through their post histories to make sure they weren't screwing with me, just because the illogic was so unbelievable.

[James Madison]

[QUOTE=OhioMichael;1441782] They have been taught to think in this backwards way by schooling, the media, etc... QUOTE]

Dead-on. In my economics class, AP no less, all we get taught is how great the Federal Reserve and that something like a gold standard is "archaic." We're taught having debt is good and that inflation is actually a good thing. If you saw half the things I see at school on a daily basis you'd realize why this country's going down the crapper.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

You should try to get them to watch this 1/2 hour video:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6732659166933078950&q=overview+of+america+site%3Avideo.google.com&total=81&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

[Truth Warrior]

"We shall get nowhere until we start by recognizing that political behavior is largely non-rational, that the world is suffering from some kind of mental disease which must be diagnosed before it can be cured. " -- George Orwell

Good call there, George. :D

[Ninja Homer]

It's kind of incredible that people still take Marx (much less communism) seriously after we have seen the so-called "Great Experiment" tried time and time again in the 20th Century. And time and again, on a variety of continents and in a wide berth of cultures, Marxism and Communism has failed - collapsed under its own weight.

It will not work because it cannot work. I had hoped tens of millions of deaths and decades of squandered effort would prove that.

It has nothing to do with it working or not. It's an easy sell to the masses when the masses are in the midst of hard times.

The people spouting this crap have no interest in making the the country and people's lives better, they're just power hungry, and using what's been successful in the past to get that power.

Serious question:
According to the Communist Planks, is the US more communist than China yet? I really don't know, but my guess is that it's getting close.

[Catatonic]

It has nothing to do with it working or not. It's an easy sell to the masses when the masses are in the midst of hard times.

The people spouting this crap have no interest in making the the country and people's lives better, they're just power hungry, and using what's been successful in the past to get that power.

Serious question:
According to the Communist Planks, is the US more communist than China yet? I really don't know, but my guess is that it's getting close.

Maybe when Hillary or Obama get elected. I think we're a mix of fascism and socialism right now.

There's a lot of corporate control/influence. Obama and hillary seem to be pointing this out and offering social programs as a replacement.

[Deborah K]

Soooo many people are confusing corporatism with capitalism. I wonder how much of it is Orwellian, meaning, how much of it is on purpose.

"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." -- Benito Mussolini

[Kade]

This is from another forum. Luckily there are quite a few Ron Paul supporters on this forum, and this is from a discussion of the parallels between Obama's policies and Marxism.

The nay-sayers were quickly forced to admit that while Obama doesn't openly support Marxism, his campaign platform is much more similar to the communist manifesto than the constitution.

Anyway, I just wanted to share this with you all. This is a post I made, the parts in bold are the comments that were added by the Obama people.

"I gotta disagree on some points.

Most of the things you're pointing your finger at capitalism for are a result of socialism. Do you really think we live in a capitalist country?

Yes, we do.

Most people aren't greedy, but they want to be able to take care of themselves. Even if you consider the average person to be greedy, which probably isn't inaccurate, you can't force them to stop being greedy and wanting more out of life.

"Human nature" isn't fixed, according to Marx. Our essence is our capacity for production for a means to live, but our nature is tied to that and our nature changes with how we produce. You're right to say you can't force people to change which is why Marx doesn't see communism as something that can be forced. Communism arises at the right time when the material conditions are right.

Capitalism doesn't force you to do anything. If we were truely capitalist you wouldn't see mega corporations dominating everything and treating people like slaves. The basis of capitalism is competition, if you don't want more from life enough to go the extra step to fight for it, then you won't get it. If you do, then you probably will. Real capitalism opens the door for a lot more entrepreneurship. The only way to kill competition and turn employees into quasi slaves is with over regulation, which is not an aspect of free market capitalism.

By definition working for wage labor is quasi slavery. The capitalist, the one who owns the means of production, must exploit your labor to receive some surplus capital. You do not receive that which is equal to what you produce. Not only that, you are alienated from your product- you do not own what you produce and you have no rights to say what happens to your product or where it goes.

Capitalism treats everyone equally in the respect that everyone has an equal opportunity to make something of themselves. The result of that is some will have more and some will have less. Without big brother to quash competition you'll have to fight to maintain any leverage.

Its kind of foolish to think everyone is equal under capitalism. Oppurtunities are highly contingent including what color or sex you are born. Why have this fetish for competition?

Marx is right, this will lead to division, but most people will fall somewhere in the middle of richness and poverty, and no one's position will be set in stone. The opportunity to change will always be there, for everyone.

How can you argue that capitalism turns you into a commodity? I think you're referring to the way things are currently in this country, which is somewhere between fascism and socialism.

You sell you[r labor.]

People can lose themselves in greed and become tools, but its not forced upon them the way it is with socialism. Robots work for free, people work based on incentive. Take that incentive away and you take the person out of the picture.

I think you are more pro socialist than I had expected, I was hoping for more of an unbiased opinion.

In a feudal state serfs do the work they're told to do, and in return they get protection, food, shelter. How is this so far from communism?"

Wage earning is slavery, forced equal distribution is freedom to these people. At least I got them to quit the charade and admit they support communism.

I didn't realize Americans had progressed this far to the left. :(

The rare commodity in this country anymore is common sense...

I won't comment more than that.

[Deborah K]

[QUOTE=OhioMichael;1441782] They have been taught to think in this backwards way by schooling, the media, etc... QUOTE]

Dead-on. In my economics class, AP no less, all we get taught is how great the Federal Reserve and that something like a gold standard is "archaic." We're taught having debt is good and that inflation is actually a good thing. If you saw half the things I see at school on a daily basis you'd realize why this country's going down the crapper.

Buy and read the book, "Crash Proof", it's all you need to debunk those ridiculous claims.

[Truth Warrior]

It has nothing to do with it working or not. It's an easy sell to the masses when the masses are in the midst of hard times.

The people spouting this crap have no interest in making the the country and people's lives better, they're just power hungry, and using what's been successful in the past to get that power.

Serious question:
According to the Communist Planks, is the US more communist than China yet? I really don't know, but my guess is that it's getting close.
It'll all come together in the NWO. ;)

[aravoth]

Ya know, whats happening in our society today reminds of "Atlas Shrugged". For example...

In the book one of the main antagonists balks about how the philosophers of old are meaningless. They look down on gold as a symbol of subjective greed, they begin to nationalize everything. They talk about how the producer is the exploiter of cheap labor, a slave driver if you will.

Simply put, they want the producer (the industrialist) to continue to produce a quality product, yet they refuse to allow them to profit from that product. Claiming that "everything that could be invented has been" which justifies the concept that no one owns anything, all products are a product of brute force, and therefore, belong to the state. As if a bunch of mindless brutes could manipulate silicon and yeild a microchip.

[bucfish]

Socialism will implode as food shortages will happen and their is no Free Nation left to feed the world. The producers will disappear, like in "Atlas Shrugged" and the world will see many people looking for an answer. Soon the answer will come. It is up to us, to deliver that answer, so educate yourself and be ready!!!

[Catatonic]

Socialism will implode as food shortages will happen and their is no Free Nation left to feed the world. The producers will disappear, like in "Atlas Shrugged" and the world will see many people looking for an answer. Soon the answer will come. It is up to us, to deliver that answer, so educate yourself and be ready!!!

My biggest fear is that they will chain us down with socialism in such a way that we can never escape.

I have a lot of hope for ron paul republicans making it into congress and finding a way to stop or at least impair whats coming.

[Conza88]

Ya know, whats happening in our society today reminds of "Atlas Shrugged". For example...

In the book one of the main antagonists balks about how the philosophers of old are meaningless. They look down on gold as a symbol of subjective greed, they begin to nationalize everything. They talk about how the producer is the exploiter of cheap labor, a slave driver if you will.

Simply put, they want the producer (the industrialist) to continue to produce a quality product, yet they refuse to allow them to profit from that product. Claiming that "everything that could be invented has been" which justifies the concept that no one owns anything, all products are a product of brute force, and therefore, belong to the state. As if a bunch of mindless brutes could manipulate silicon and yeild a microchip.


http://nyc.metblogs.com/archives/galt.JPG




The Answer is Ron Paul.

[Truth Warrior]

Socialism will implode as food shortages will happen and their is no Free Nation left to feed the world. The producers will disappear, like in "Atlas Shrugged" and the world will see many people looking for an answer. Soon the answer will come. It is up to us, to deliver that answer, so educate yourself and be ready!!!
Since TPTB has an agenda item of reducing the total human population by around 95%, through the "elimination" of all of the "useless eaters" ( so labeled and called ), perhaps the script of the plan is merely being followed. :(

Have a good day! :)

[Libertytree]

I am reaching the conclusion that Government, and the administration of it, is proportional to the population.

Central planning does not work in a Country of 280 million, but it may work in Australia with a population of 18 million.

State by State. It makes sense.


I've posted this before but it germane to this.


"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy."

Author still in dispute.

[vegetarianrpfan]

It's not that America has gone "this far to the left." If there was someone as charismatic and well-spoken as Obama saying things Reagan would have said or Ron Paul would have said, these same people would be saying that government can't help them and they need to help themselves. They're drones who listen to TV and just regurgitate what they hear.

Here's an example of how most Americans are just robots.

I went to an Obama rally in Chapel Hill last week. I like Obama personally, but of course I think many of his policies are incorrect. He mentioned John McCain's name. The whole crowd starts booing, literally booing as if McCain was the worst person in the world. Then, Obama says, "McCain was a war hero and we must applaud him for that." Magically, everyone in the crowd starts clapping like crazy and even yelling out for McCain.

It was INSANE. They absolutely are robots and will change their mind within 10 seconds if someone tells them to.

[Truth Warrior]

ALL of the people get the governments that only MOST of the people deserve.

[Conza88]

It was INSANE. They absolutely are robots and will change their mind within 10 seconds if someone tells them to.

Robotic Obama voice: "Ron Paul is a war hero, he saved lives. He didn't kill people & trash 5 helicopters like McCain did. Vote Ron Paul" [People literally go ape shit for Rp] :D