.308 Poll, What to buy?

[Luft97]

Posted a poll similar to this elsewhere but I am trying to get a broad response. I am interested in purchasing a .308, I already own an SKS and AR15 looking for a little more stopping power something I can shoot aggressors at a decent distance and also use to kill deer on my property (70 Acres).

The choices are:

1) Armalite AR-30:

http://www.armalite.com/images/Medium%20Images/Rifles/AR30_338%20medium.jpg


2) AR10 SuperSASS RIFLE

http://www.armalite.com/images/Medium%20Images/Rifles/10SBMedium.jpg


3) Steyr Scout Tactical Elite

http://www.steyrscout.org/elite2.jpg

4) Springfield Armory M1A

http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/ctd_images/mdprod/32597.jpg

[Conza88]

http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u266/thekoolaidmom/50cal.jpg

:eek:

[Luft97]

Well, 50 cal would be nice but I don't think I want to shoot deer with a 50 cal... lol! Not to mention the ammo cost. I was going to say cost is not really an object but 50 cal ammo is expensive.

[Merk]

I would go with the Springfield. Proven in the field and parts are much easier to get if the SHTF.

[JRegs85]

M1A. Is there any other option?

[pickdog]

M1A. Is there any other option?

ditto

[TruckinMike]

For an M14/M1A type rifle with ALL GI parts --- buy an LRB. They are more expensive but the very best quality.

http://www.lrbarms.com/rifles1.html

TMike

[Anti Federalist]

http://www.dsarms.com/images/SA58TAC.gif

I have a similar version and love it.

http://www.dsarms.com/prodinfo.asp?number=SA58TAC

[youngbuck]

I'll second the FAL from DSA.

[TruckinMike]

Both Rifles can be bought for around $1400


DSA FAL - PROS over the M1A


1. Easier to clean than the M1A
2. Magazines are a lot cheaper ($5-$10)!!
3. and maybe you could say that the pistol grip is an advantage for ease in one handed operation. ??? I don't know if I would say that... but some do.
4. Gas system is easily adjusted -- a life saving feature

M1A Pros over the FAL

1. Longer Sight radius for more accurate shooting
2. The rear sight base is fixed to the receiver, for again more accurate shooting(no wobble of a pesky hinge pin to get in the way of a long distance life or death shot).
3. Has a MUCH superior military 2-stage trigger (again for greater accuracy)
4. Has a Forward Assist built into the bolt/carrier - (your life may depend on this feature)
5.The sights ARE the VERY best of any military firearm in the world! Without question!
6. Has a barrel that is 1 inch longer - for approximately a 100-200 fps gain in projectile velocity


If you still think a FAL for the money - is better; then read Boston T. Party's revised edition, "Boston's Gun Bible". Its a comparison contrast of all the battle rifles(.308). The M1A wins, the FAL comes in second. His first edition had the FAL winning --- but after more experience he changed his mind.

And if that doesn't convince you then buy both guns, that way you will know... thats what I did.:)

Just to let you know that I'm not some M1A whore -- I own 3 FALS, 4 AR's, and 1 M1A. And the M1A would go with me into battle! The Fals are for my friends that didn't prepare for the hordes of flesh eating zombies. And the AR's are for their wives!!!!bwaah ahaha ha ha!

TMike

Note on the FN FAL Hinge Pin Wobble: Just last week, after I finished building my Imbel FAL, I went shooting. And to my surprise out of 5 shots, I had four touching in a horizontal string. Gee whiz I thought... am I jerking the trigger? Flinching? To make this story short I noticed that the hinge pin was loose. Had I been shooting at 500 yards, each shot would have been separated by 5 inches instead of 1/4 of an inch(25 meters). That would have been 15 inches from the first to the last shot at 500 yards. NOT GOOD.

[madengr]

How about a Steyr SSG?

I have 2 DSA FALS, a 16"and 21".

[Hawk45]

+1 on what TruckinMike said about both the FAL and the M-1A! I have carried BOTH in actual combat and I give the edge to the M-1A. Carried a sniper version of the M-14 in Vietnam for two years and carried the FAL in Africa for over a year doing 'security work'.

Only problem with both is the growing scarcity of spare parts and the increasing cost of ammo and mags.

Another weapon to consider is the simple AK as most perceived combat here would be under 300 yards. For that they would be hard to beat as they are robust and almost idiot proof.

Thing is if anyone is considering buying one, then it had better be bought BEFORE November as any of them will likely be prohibited after the next President takes office whoever it is.

[Ozwest]

Hope you guys don't end up on a list.

If you have, 50 calibre might be useless!

[DAFTEK]

I would go with the Springfield. Proven in the field and parts are much easier to get if the SHTF.


++++111111111111 :D

[TruckinMike]

One more note...

I don't want to discourage anyone away from the FAL or any other weapon when there are good uses for all of them.

For a general purpose teotwawki rifle a standard FAL used to defend the home would be great w/ ranges less than 400 yds. However, most of the advantages that the M1A had over the FAL were in the non-scoped accuracy department. A FAL with an ACOG would be plenty deadly -- Up close and afar.
http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/opticsplanet/acog-info.jpg

Note: the optics are mounted on the upper Receiver --- where as the iron sights are mounted on the lower receiver. (thus no pin wobble or poor sight issues) And throw in DSA's $175 trigger --- now your cookin' out to 600 yards!

Note#2: For a good iron back up -- DSA sells an AR15 sight block thats mounted to their custom lower receiver.
http://www.dsarms.com/images/US061A2H.gif

Or for CQB and distance -- order the above DSA tactical w/the match trigger, A2 lower receiver, and ACOG (or similar) optics.

There you have it... All bases covered.

TMike

[classicalscholar]

Has anywone worked with the Remington 700 SPS in .308?

I'd love an M1A but currently looking at a bolt action due to cost and maintenace issues.

[Hawk45]

Hope you guys don't end up on a list.

If you have, 50 calibre might be useless!

Some of us have been on so many 'lists' for so long it doesn't matter anymore.

As to the Remington, while a good gun it was NOT designed for sustained firing as accuracy goes right out the window after the barrel heats up. Add to this the problem that the extractor was designed for deer hunting and not combat and HAS failed in the field. That is why the Marines mill their bolts to accept the M-16 extractor that can be easily replaced in the field by the operator. The standard extractor has to be replaced by a qualified gunsmith with the right tools if it fails.

The Steyr SSG is much better in this reguard, but is limited to 5 or 10 round strings depending on the mags you have for it. Know now that even if you can find the 10 rounders they will cost you almost as much as a AK all by itself. Last one I saw for sale brought almost $300 just for a 10 round bolt action mag.

Also know for folks that are thinking I will just sit 600-800 yards away and pick them off, it is NOT as easy as it sounds. Add to this that the scope that will allow this will cost you as much as the gun itself. So many will spend $1000+ on a good gun and then will handicap themselves with a $300 scope and $50 rings for it.

Just for reasons of cost estimates the last rifle I set up for sniping cost OVER $4,000 fully set up. But between it and the skills I have honed in being a sniper over 30 years I can put a deer on the ground if I had to at 1500 yards, but I wouldn't want to have to do it everyday.

For those thinking that they can try an experiment first. Borrow a good set up and find a 500 yard range. Fire 10 shots as fast as you can and then load the gun with three rounds and try and hit a 5 gallon plastic bucket at 500 yards.

If this does not convince you that there is a difference in a 'Battle Rifle' and a hunting gun then nothing I type on here will.

[TruckinMike]

Yet Another .308.... I've been following the development of this rifle for a while now. Its looking pretty good, minus the fact that its direct gas impingement, then again, all of my AR's are DGI and they never have had a problem -- I just might ad one of these to my collection -- I like'em!

here is a review from survivalblog .com (http://www.survivalblog.com/)


Range Test and Product Review: Rock River Arms LAR-8 .308 Mid-Length A4 Carbine, by Michael Z. Williamson

After many delays for many reasons, I finally have my hands on a LAR-8, which is Rock River Arms' entry into the AR-10 clone market. This model is the LAR-8 16" carbine, flattop, MSRP $1,100.

The rifle arrived in a sturdy bright blue case, compartmented to fit a disassembled rifle of each length, with one magazine, manual, everything wrapped in plastic. This is a heavy rifle compared to an AR15, at 8.1 lbs (for a carbine, remember), but is quite reasonable for a .308.

From the rear: The buttstock is a standard 6 position, and aftermarket stocks will fit, likewise for the Hogue grip. The internals are proprietary, but it appears that standard AR fire control parts will fit. The trigger felt really odd, almost hair trigger, until we weighed it right about 6 pounds. It is just exceptionally crisp with a very sweet let-off. The fire control switch is right-handed only, which is a little odd, since the magazine release is ambidextrous (button on each side), and the bottom-mounted bolt release is, also. It appears that standard handguards will fit, too.
The controls are easy to reach. I do like the bolt release. Insert a magazine, brush downward with thumb, and it clacks into battery. Operation was flawless for the full day. This is on the rifle as delivered, with no oil, teardown, anything. It chambered and fired every time, and there were no hitches.

Here's one of the prime selling points: The rifle is advertised to, and does, accept metric and inch FAL magazines. I had a little more trouble with inch mags, but I suspect they were older. I bought ten at a gun show for $50. That's enough magazines for 210 rounds of ammunition (nine 20 round, one 30 round). That's about the price for just one of the competitor's magazine. Feed and function was fine with both, assuming the magazine was good. At that price, though, one can buy a case and keep the tight ones for spare parts.

The weapon is tight, well-made, with excellent fit and finish. It is well-balanced and comfortable. It felt very robust and durable, though as a loaner, I didn't do an all-out abuse test. If you are familiar with the AR-15, the only relevant differences for handling are the weight and the location of the bolt release, which is lower than one is trained for, but easily managed. Since most of us slap the paddle as the hand goes down anyway, there's no problem adapting to carrying the motion to the base of the magazine well. Other minor differences are the much heavier recoil spring, and the previously-mentioned excellent if unusual trigger.

The rifle came without iron sights on this model (other models have M16A2 style sights). This was a minor problem. I have excellent scopes, but no riser to bring them high enough above the receiver, and no mountable front sight. I managed by attaching one of my EoTechs. The EoTech is a combat sight, not intended for long range precision, but seemed to work well enough. I was within 8" of center with the first shot (before zeroing). That's good enough for combat shooting at 100 yards.

Weather: 64° F, 62% relative humidity, Barometric pressure 29.87 and falling, elevation 630 ft above sea level.
Using South African surplus R1M1, 204W, Lot A11/80, I was able to keep 4" groups of 20 rounds. This is 4 MOA, with 30 year old ammo, a short barrel, a combat sight with a red dot shooting at a red target. I find this acceptable.

With US [military] surplus Lot 1-80, three shot groups ranged from 2.125" to 2.375", very consistently.

Using US military match grade XM118 LR PD (2002, Lake City), our groups ranged from 1.125" to 1.6", median 1.375". This is well within the 1.5 MOA accuracy promised, using an inadequate sight. I am impressed and satisfied. A good handloader could probably break 1 MOA, and this is with the 16" carbine, not the 26" heavy barreled "varmint" rifle.

I would suggest Rock River make the fire selector switch ambidextrous, since all other controls are. That's the only improvement I can think of.

It cleaned easily, with a little more room to get inside than an AR-15. The bolt cam pin appears to go in sideways compared to an AR-15 (rotated 90 degrees). The firing pin is longer. Everything fit well, had a good metal surface and a very dark parkerized finish.

For those of you wanting .308 power and range with the AR's handling, welcome home. For those wanting a reasonably priced precision rifle for target shooting, hunting, or SHTF, you'll be hard-pressed to do better than a Rock River LAR-8. The availability of AR-platform accessories and mods are significant points in favor of both, as are the dirt-cheap military surplus FAL magazines. One can buy the rifle and included case, customize stocks, grips, handguards and mechanicals, load 200 and more rounds in magazines, and still be money ahead of a competing AR-10 clone. Add in the exceptional accuracy and strength, and it tops my list.- Michael Z. Williamson

http://rockriverarms.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=category.display&category_id=256

http://rockriverarms.com/images/products/r308s07.gif


TMike