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Bradley in DC
05-06-2008, 10:14 AM
http://www.prometheus6.org/node/20806

yongrel
05-06-2008, 10:33 AM
Oh for fuck's sake.

That bastard...

Bradley in DC
05-06-2008, 10:36 AM
Oh for fuck's sake.

That bastard...

So Kent Snyder and gang have somewhere to go next? :mad:

yongrel
05-06-2008, 10:38 AM
It was only a matter of time before some batshit crazy racist motherfucker like this guy came along and called himself a"Ron Paul Republican."

Rat bastard.

slacker921
05-06-2008, 10:49 AM
hhhmmm.. but will the Paul supporters in that area actively campaign against him via the media and ads? .. or will the Paul campaign? The Paul haters have a valid case unless someone actively distances Ron Paul from this guy. In Charlotte we have Jack Stratton making us look bad. Wee..

asgardshill
05-06-2008, 11:12 AM
Here is (http://www.popehat.com/2008/05/06/sorry-to-disappoint-you-bill-johnson-but-the-robes-are-black-not-white/) a pretty good backgrounder on this Bill Johnson bird.

A California lawyer, Johnson apparently works under a variety of names (Bill Johnson aka William Daniel Johnson aka James O. Pace), he's a perennial also-ran for public office, and ... he runs a Ron Paul meetup (http://ronpaul.meetup.com/1817/). Radioactive to the max.

amy31416
05-06-2008, 11:20 AM
If all this is accurate, let's run this bitch out of this movement. Do you suppose all those members of the meetup know he's a racist? If they don't know about his racism and sketchy past, and are real RP supporters--they'll turn on him and be as disgusted as we are.

Can we somehow actively promote Bianco to teach this jackass a lesson?

asgardshill
05-06-2008, 11:27 AM
Sidebar: Whoever (Brian?) came up with the idea of a "Bad Media Reporting On Ron Paul" subforum deserves a big ol' slice of raisin pie. Even a blind squirrel stumbles on an acorn every once in a while, and sometimes even negative coverage of Ron Paul can be used to help him.

acptulsa
05-06-2008, 11:28 AM
All our L.A. people have to do is add a Bianco yard sign to their Ron Paul collection. Try a little innocence by association.

Bradley in DC
05-06-2008, 11:29 AM
If all this is accurate, let's run this bitch out of this movement.

+1

amy31416
05-06-2008, 12:02 PM
For what it's worth, I emailed the meetup group with links to the articles and questions about who he really is and his stance on race.

zadrock
05-06-2008, 12:29 PM
I commented on the site. While I understand why he would be upset over this candidate, I get annoyed when I hear things like Ron Paul hates black people. Ron Paul is the BEST candidate for black people. (He's the best candidate for all people, obviously, but I think I made some good points on the blog specifically addressing blacks.)

Z

zadrock
05-06-2008, 04:02 PM
banned. they claimed I wasn't black. damn them.

Z

stuffaduf
05-06-2008, 04:24 PM
someone who has access to that meetup group should post a link to both this thread and the thread on dailypaul where people are genuinely concerned about these (what I would only call at this time) accusations. I'm still an ardent Paul supporter but not every freakin question asked is a hit and run from the establishment. I live in LA County and would genuinely like to know more about these supposed accusations. I'm not signing up for a stupid meetup though, especially when their main prerogative is to "bury" the questions.

NH4RonPaul
05-06-2008, 05:35 PM
The LA Times is batshit crazy and the RP campaign ought to SUE the bastards.

Ron Paul's ideas on race are NOT the same as this guy's.

Now they are out and out making things up.

If you want to see REAL racism, just go to Obama's church some Sunday.

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

NH4RonPaul
05-06-2008, 05:41 PM
banned. they claimed I wasn't black. damn them.

Z


This puts their accusation in the "NON CREDIBLE" category almost immediately.

amy31416
05-06-2008, 05:51 PM
Holy crap on ice, I caused a bit of a ruckus on the MeetUp group. I haven't gotten through all the new messages yet.

I am GB on the meetup.

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/1817/messages/

yongrel
05-06-2008, 05:53 PM
Holy crap on ice, I caused a bit of a ruckus on the MeetUp group. I haven't gotten through all the new messages yet.

I am GB on the meetup.

http://ronpaul.meetup.com/1817/messages/

Wow, they're going ape.

asgardshill
05-06-2008, 06:00 PM
They do seem to be inserting their fingers in their ears and loudly singing LA LA LA LAAAAAA ...

Just keep burying questions guys - that really wins hearts and minds.

stuffaduf
05-06-2008, 06:01 PM
i totally understand how they can think people are trying to derail the train right before the vote, but too bad. I have no idea who this guy is, he is actually running as a judge in my area, and these supporters are encouraging a "sink the inquiries" approach before the guy has even had an opportunity to respond. Perhaps personal email is a more appropriate medium to get a response from him on this story than his official Meetup group, however the public racial attacks against Paul were persistent and AFTER he had thoroughly and repeatedly addressed the issues being raised.

amy31416
05-06-2008, 06:11 PM
I agree stuff, I understand it as well, but you're right--they may very well have no idea who this character is.

I didn't know any personal email addresses, and, thinking about putting myself in the position--I'd like to know who I'm supporting or at least know the right questions to ask him or her. So I went ahead and asked 'em.

liberteebell
05-06-2008, 06:43 PM
I commented on the site. While I understand why he would be upset over this candidate, I get annoyed when I hear things like Ron Paul hates black people. Ron Paul is the BEST candidate for black people. (He's the best candidate for all people, obviously, but I think I made some good points on the blog specifically addressing blacks.)

Z

Z, you did a great job defending your position using facts and not some emotional argument. You're bound to make somebody think about it... Bravo! :D

zadrock
05-06-2008, 08:57 PM
Z, you did a great job defending your position using facts and not some emotional argument. You're bound to make somebody think about it... Bravo! :D

thanks, liberteebell...

after i got banned, i logged in again with a new email address and tried to post something a little conciliatory. no dice! check out what prometheus did to my final post:



Bn ppl y dn't gr wth? s hw t s. Myb shld cnsdr lgl ctn ndr th Cvl Rghts ct f 1964 fr bng blck prsn y dn't lk. H h. Srsly, rspct yr rght t yr prsnl prprty nd ths wll b my lst pst hr.

Rgrdng th Cvl Rghts ct, ths s th prt tht thnk s ncnstttnl: &qt;Th Cvl Rghts ct f 1964 gv th fdrl gvrnmnt nprcdntd pwr vr th hrng, mply rltns, nd cstmr srvc prctcs f vry bsnss n th cntry. Th rslt ws mssv vltn f th rghts f prvt prprty nd cntrct, whch r th bdrcks f fr scty. Th fdrl gvrnmnt hs n lgtmt thrty t nfrng n th rghts f prvt prprty wnrs t s thr prprty s thy pls nd t frm (r nt frm) cntrcts wth trms mtlly grbl t ll prts. Th rghts f ll prvt prprty wnrs, vn ths whs ctns dcnt ppl fnd bhrrnt, mst b rspctd f w r t mntn fr scty.&qt;

Jst lk wn't brng lgl ctn gnst y fr bnnng m, w mst lv wth th fct tht sm ppl dscrmnt bsd n nnsnscl fctrs f w r t hv tr lbrty. Th rsn Rn Pl s gnst crtn cvl rghts lgsltn s nt bcs h's rcst; t's bcs h dsn't gr tht t's ky t dprv sm ppl f thr prvt prprty t cmpnst thrs, whch s prtty mch wht h sys bv. dn't blv ths xtnds t gvrnmnt, nd thr hrng systm shld b trly clr-blnd.

Lk, thr's n sy nswr fr th sgrgtn/ntgrtn prblm. Whn ws n ndrgrd t MT, wrkd n ths bk: < hrf="http://www.mzn.cm/Tchnlgy-Drm-Rflctns-xprnc-1941-1999/dp/026223212X/rf=sr_1_1?=TF8&mp;s=bks&mp;qd=1210111920&mp;sr=8-1">http://www.mzn.cm/Tchnlgy-Drm-Rflctns-xprnc-1941-1999/dp/026223212X/rf=sr_1_1?=TF8&mp;s=bks&mp;qd=1210111920&mp;sr=8-1

trnscrbd fw hndrd rl ntrvws wth blcks wh hd cm thrgh MT. Th ldr ns lmntd th cllps f blck nstttns. fw f thm cm cls t syng tht frcd ntgrtn ws mstk. nd ths wr clrly nt lbrtrns r ncl Tms r nythng lk tht. Th Cvl Rghts ct wrks bth wys - y cnnt hv ll-blck nstttns ndr tht lgsltn thr. n sm wys, thgh, kpng ths nstttns ntct wld hv bn bnfcl - s &qt;Frty Mlln Dllr Slvs&qt; by Wllm Rhdn fr dscssn f tht.

fnl qstn fr y, Prmths. Yr prms s tht Rn Pl s rcst. k. S hw d y xpln hs ppstn t th wr n drgs nd th dth pnlty? Whl n th cmpgn trl, h hs sd h wld mmdtly prdn ll nnvlnt drg ffndrs pn tkng ffc, s wll s cmmtng th sntncs f ll fdrl nmts n dth rw. Nw, f h wr tr rcst, ths sms bt f n dd pstn t tk. Why wld h rls prsnrs tht wld dsprprtntly b blck? Why wld h cmmt th sntncs f blck mn cndmnd t d? D ths snd th ctns f rcst t y?

hp y'll gv sm thght t th nswr. 'll stp by t s f y d. Bt wn't pst hr nymr. Srry fr th ntrsn. ndrstnd ppl nt grng wth Rn Pl's lbrtrn/cnstttnlst phlsphy. Bt d strngly bjct t ppl clmng h s rcst. 'm nt sr 'v gttn nywhr wth y r nyn ls rdng ths, s 'll spnd my tm lswhr snc 'm clrly nt wntd hr. dmt t bng dsppntd tht s fw blcks hv gvn RP lk nd try t prmt hm whnvr cn. Sgh...

Gd lck wth bm - wld b hppy t s blck Prsdnt, bt hs spndng scrs m nd dn't trst hm t ctlly brng th trps hm.

Tk cr ll,

Z


That's right, the bastards STOLE MY VOWELS!! FCK Y, ASSHLS!!!

(10 points to anyone who understands what I wrote.) :D

Z

forsmant
05-06-2008, 09:00 PM
Yeah I got ten points


He is free to be a racist and free to be disliked. Way to go Amy.

amy31416
05-06-2008, 09:11 PM
Yeah I got ten points


He is free to be a racist and free to be disliked. Way to go Amy.

I'm sure it's rtrdd. :)

ronpaulhawaii
05-06-2008, 09:23 PM
Wow...

I met Bill in LA, and stayed at his house, when I started my ride. No idea about these accusations, there was nothing visual, and nothing said, to indicate racism.

If he is closet KKK, no mercy...

amy31416
05-06-2008, 09:32 PM
Wow...

I met Bill in LA, and stayed at his house, when I started my ride. No idea about these accusations, there was nothing visual, and nothing said, to indicate racism.

If he is closet KKK, no mercy...

Yeah, it's a weird situation. Where did these accusations come from? Is there anything to it?

Personal experiences seem to defy the LA Times Opinion piece, but where did they get it from?

If he wrote those things, if he is "in the closet," I will do everything I can to rake him over the coals for using RP's name. If it's all BS, then I'll be relieved and more than happy to support him.

Bradley in DC
05-06-2008, 09:39 PM
I should clarify I was posting blindly. I do not know the guy, I know nothing more than what I posted. Sorry to imply a rush to judgement, but this is serious and appears to be from a credible source.

amy31416
05-06-2008, 09:41 PM
Bradley,

The questions are better asked sooner than later. We need to weed out the bad seeds and support the fruitful ones.

ronpaulhawaii
05-06-2008, 09:54 PM
I should clarify I was posting blindly. I do not know the guy, I know nothing more than what I posted. Sorry to imply a rush to judgement, but this is serious and appears to be from a credible source.

Well, it's good we are aware of it. It would be good to get to the bottom of this. I can probably dig up his addy, but hardly know how to approach the subject...

More crap on the plate :(

revolutionman
05-07-2008, 06:40 AM
is it possible that this guy WAS a racist in 1985 but is no longer a racist today??

I know its easy to be cynical about people, but that was 23 years ago. A lot can change in that kinda time. As far as the KKK campaign manager, the KKK is like the evil twin brother of the Masons, these people infiltrate every aspect of society in order tio give their own the upper hand. Thats not a new or innovative strategy, hell we're doing it to push our ideals. The point is, these people imbed themselves in local and national politics, many with no official record of racism or discrimination, and its next to impossible to purge them, even when they are exposed.

Racist or not, if the guy knows the local sociopolitical atmosphere, thats the guy i want as my campaign manager.

I'm only a year older than Paces book, and I used to be a lot of things that I'm not today.

Bradley in DC
05-07-2008, 07:34 AM
is it possible that this guy WAS a racist in 1985 but is no longer a racist today??

Racist or not, if the guy knows the local sociopolitical atmosphere, thats the guy i want as my campaign manager.

I'm only a year older than Paces book, and I used to be a lot of things that I'm not today.

Sure it's possible he's no longer racist, but given that he (apparently) has a long and public record of activism on racial issues--with no easily found public record denouncing them--and claims his views are identical to Dr. Paul's, yes, we have a problem.

Hiring a KKK campaign manager is NOT acceptable.

amy31416
05-07-2008, 07:38 AM
Sure it's possible he's no longer racist, but given that he (apparently) has a long and public record of activism on racial issues--with no easily found public record denouncing them--and claims his views are identical to Dr. Paul's, yes, we have a problem.

Hiring a KKK campaign manager is NOT acceptable.

Given his shifting use of names, it's not easy to find much on him at all. That is rarely a good sign for a politician.

Oh, and I got the boot from the meetup group without having any of the questions answered. So much for that.

Bern
05-07-2008, 08:28 AM
I read the meetup group thread. It's discouraging (except for Mara's lone voice of reason). People are making emotional judgements instead of taking a moment to pursue the truth in a situation that could be harmful to the public perception of the Ron Paul revolution. There are bigger issues at stake than just Mr. Johnson's election bid (that's my two zinc pennies).

amy31416
05-07-2008, 08:37 AM
I read the meetup group thread. It's discouraging (except for Mara's lone voice of reason). People are making emotional judgements instead of taking a moment to pursue the truth in a situation that could be harmful to the public perception of the Ron Paul revolution. There are bigger issues at stake than just Mr. Johnson's election bid (that's my two zinc pennies).

Mara's posting was spot-on--she and fitz are the only ones who seem to want to know and allow questions. Both my posts were polite and respectful, only asking questions, not making accusations.

The first response was from a guy who does identify as a White Nationalist, which is not a great sign, but I didn't say squat about it. In his next response, he wants to sue me for slander just for asking the questions.

Perhaps I at least put the question in their minds.

stuffaduf
05-07-2008, 09:42 AM
More on his Democratic Congressional run in 2006:
http://arizona.typepad.com/blog/2006/06/who_is_william_.html

stuffaduf
05-07-2008, 10:01 AM
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/race-and-reason-welcomes-jessie-johnson-3-of-3/1330838410

8:00 minute mark

stuffaduf
05-07-2008, 10:11 AM
http://web.archive.org/web/20060808192309/http://www.gobilljohnson.com/

Bradley in DC
05-07-2008, 10:16 AM
All of this raises the serious question of how the Arlington official campaign staff got Dr. Paul to endorse this guy. :eek: :eek: :eek:

amy31416
05-07-2008, 10:23 AM
All of this raises the serious question of how the Arlington official campaign staff got Dr. Paul to endorse this guy. :eek: :eek: :eek:

Either they're lazy, didn't do their homework or are completely incompetent.

Was RP's endorsement written or spoken?

Bradley in DC
05-07-2008, 10:30 AM
http://video.aol.com/video-detail/race-and-reason-welcomes-jessie-johnson-3-of-3/1330838410

8:00 minute mark

:eek: :eek: :eek:
"Race and Reason Welcomes Jessie Johnson: 3 of 3"

Discusses likelihood of violent uprising, etc. Lauding David Duke (they were former campaign manager other was with KKK with him). Skinheads "aware and articulate", tip of iceberg of new youth that "going to win the battle and restore America" for white racialist movement.

Website promoted in the video:
http://www.resist.com/

Including these:

ARYAN UPDATES

| Aryan Updates 2006 | 2005 | 2004 | 2003 | 2002 | 2001 | 2000 | 1999 |


RACIST GAMES

WARNING: Potentially Offensive material beyond this point. resist.com is an expression of the First Amendment right to free speech. Any of the following pages, photo's, or other material contained within this webpage is not, I REPEAT, is not to be taken as a THREAT to ANYTHING or ANYONE! *** The material supplied is NOT an instruction or a directive to use against anyone. However, if one does take the information provided and acts violently upon it, it is their responsibility and solely theirs. *** If you feel that my freedom of speech is a direct -THREAT- of your -CIVIL RIGHTS- do not continue with this page. If you do continue and you feel -THREATENED- then that is YOUR OWN FAULT, not mine. I will not be held responsible for what -FEELINGS- this page provokes. *** resist.com is not intended for children, the immature, the meek or faint hearted. *** If you are over 18, mature and stronghearted please continue. *** Otherwise close this webpage Now.

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 10:48 AM
Geesh,

Glad to see Bradley and the rest of the focus group are concentrating on the meaningful things in life...

God fricking forbid!

Seems full of shit.

What do you reckon?

H Roark
05-07-2008, 11:14 AM
The only location stating that RP has officially endorsed him is on DailyPaul.com I would think that HQ would of done a simple Google search, but who knows? Its also interesting to note that on my sample ballot his prior job is listed as being "International Corporate Lawyer" Not exactly the type of experience I'd prefer for supreme court judge in LA...

Kraig
05-07-2008, 11:35 AM
Nice job defending our cause zadrock. It's sad to me that our message can be so perverted that people would think it is racist. Hopefully for all the idiot comments you got in there, there were a few people who actually thought about what you were saying.

stuffaduf
05-07-2008, 11:52 AM
"I know not everyone thinks i should have threw those 2 guys out of the group but i believe they both worked for the Press.They both told me that they were Ron Paul supporters when they both barely joined meetup yesterday and werent members of any Ron Paul meetups.We all have questions about Bill and we are not the ones with the answers.We just know and love Bill and we hope we can either move on or better yet find out that none of this was true.I gave them Bills email if they have anything to ask Bill or set up a interview with Bill. Please do not JUDGE Bill until we talk to Bill ourselves.The media has been the enemy for us Ron Paul supporters and now the media has us at the crossroads.How did this happen?Wouldn't we want each others support if this happened to us?Everybody can do what they want to but I'm sticking with Bill!"

amy31416
05-07-2008, 11:55 AM
"I know not everyone thinks i should have threw those 2 guys out of the group but i believe they both worked for the Press.They both told me that they were Ron Paul supporters when they both barely joined meetup yesterday and werent members of any Ron Paul meetups.We all have questions about Bill and we are not the ones with the answers.We just know and love Bill and we hope we can either move on or better yet find out that none of this was true.I gave them Bills email if they have anything to ask Bill or set up a interview with Bill. Please do not JUDGE Bill until we talk to Bill ourselves.The media has been the enemy for us Ron Paul supporters and now the media has us at the crossroads.How did this happen?Wouldn't we want each others support if this happened to us?Everybody can do what they want to but I'm sticking with Bill!"

Funny. I'm one of the "guys" he threw out and I didn't get Bill's email address from him.

I'm certainly not a member of the press either, but they'll never find out the truth if they don't ask the questions.

Crash Martinez
05-07-2008, 12:02 PM
I've never liked the way people get all "hyper" about perceived opposition. The members of that Meetup group ought to be more focused on the issues and the truth, and less on the effects those things might have on "their" candidate's chances. After all, we only support Ron Paul Republicans based on their positions and their character - surely those things are therefore subject to open scrutiny!

Speaking of which, some of these "traditional Democrat" policies don't strike me as very reminiscent of Ron Paul: http://web.archive.org/web/20060813131502/www.gobilljohnson.com/issues.htm

Again, though, I really appreciate you guys looking into this. We don't need or want to be associating with bigots, and neither do any real Ron Paul Republicans. I'm sure this is a troubling and disillusioning experience for those Meetup members, but they'd better get past it quick, in the interest of the integrity of our whole movement. (...Not that WE'LL ever be held back!!)

-Peter Gay


EDIT: For the lazier among us, here's some examples of none-too-Paulian positions espoused by Johnson on that website:

No Refugees - At the end of all past conflicts, America has taken in a large number of refugees from countries we have fought. This time we should not make immigration available to the vanquished Iraqis.

Health Care Reform
Bill Johnson intends to give serious consideration to a universal health care system similar to the Massachusetts State example of mandatory health coverage. This plan would require all persons to procure and maintain health coverage either through their employers or as an individual. No subsidies or coverage would be available to illegal immigrants.

Role of Corporations in America
Corporations and business enterprise play a vital role in America, but under the leadership of special-interest Republicans, that role has been obscured. Businesses should not have as its primary goal the generation of shareholder profits and excessive executive compensation--at the expense of society, the environment and the worker. Corporate America should be encouraged to establish the following goals in the following order:
Provide valuable goods and services to its customers
Provide living wages to its employees, and a working environment that will enable the employee to enjoy life in the fullest
Promote sound environmental policies that will help preserve this great land for our descendants.
If the corporations will embrace these goals, then government must reciprocate. This means that the government must reduce taxes, government expenditures, and the size and reach of government. We must also dramatically reduce the current litigious environment that acts to redistribute wealth to litigants and their legal counsel.
In order to earn easy profits and to drive down domestic labor costs, Republican policies encourage the outsourcing of jobs overseas and illegal immigration. They also are not as sensitive to environmental concerns as they should be. Traditional Democrats promote the environment and the work force, while creating a business environment that corporate leadership embraces.

Environment and Energy
Bill Johnson is an environmentalist. Dealing with the nation?s energy problem is a top priority. He strongly supports legislation that will preserve our nation?s natural resources for future generations. It is important to cut day-to-day consumption by all segments of society. Steps to curtail global warming should be given top priority.

Science Education in School
Bill Johnson will support science education in school. Intelligent design is an appropriate topic for church, but not the schoolroom .

Bradley in DC
05-07-2008, 12:08 PM
Geesh,

Glad to see Bradley and the rest of the focus group are concentrating on the meaningful things in life...

God fricking forbid!

Seems full of shit.

What do you reckon?

I'm told that Lew Moore pushed through Ron Paul's endorsement of this guy. The issues I raise here are of great concern to those with political ties to Dr. Paul that predate the Arlington HQ staffers (if that's what you mean by "focus group"). Value is subjective, but yes, protecting my idol from racists claiming his mantel with the help of incompetents is meaningful to me.

amy31416
05-07-2008, 12:13 PM
I've never liked the way people get all "hyper" about perceived opposition. The members of that Meetup group ought to be more focused on the issues and the truth, and less on the effects those things might have on "their" candidate's chances. After all, we only support Ron Paul Republicans based on their positions and their character - surely those things are therefore subject to open scrutiny!

Speaking of which, some of these "traditional Democrat" policies don't strike me as very reminiscent of Ron Paul: http://web.archive.org/web/20060813131502/www.gobilljohnson.com/issues.htm

Again, though, I really appreciate you guys looking into this. We don't need or want to be associating with bigots, and neither do any real Ron Paul Republicans. I'm sure this is a troubling and disillusioning experience for those Meetup members, but they'd better get past it quick, in the interest of the integrity of our whole movement. (...Not that WE'LL ever be held back!!)

-Peter Gay

Thanks. We here are guilty of it as well, and I do understand it. Sometimes the truth is painful, and doesn't mesh with our experience.

For instance, the racist-leaning postcard that HQ put out that Wonkette got their hands on. While I still certainly don't think RP is a racist, it was certainly an eye-opener as to how dumb the HQ could be at times. (I know, I know--us "Yankees" don't get it. Nope, I don't."

The newsletters. It was an eye-opener about RP's blind trust in those he counts on. We were all quite reactionary about that.

If the truth is troubling and disillusioning, all the more reason to pursue it. The alternative is electing someone whose weaknesses you don't really know.

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 12:16 PM
I'm told that Lew Moore pushed through Ron Paul's endorsement of this guy. The issues I raise here are of great concern to those with political ties to Dr. Paul that predate the Arlington HQ staffers (if that's what you mean by "focus group"). Value is subjective, but yes, protecting my idol from racists claiming his mantel with the help of incompetents is meaningful to me.

Fair enough Bradley.

But isn't this somewhat Bollywood?

Somehow ancient and redundant...

amy31416
05-07-2008, 12:21 PM
Fair enough Bradley.

But isn't this somewhat Bollywood?

Somehow ancient and redundant...

To me, and I don't speak for everyone, this speaks to the character of this movement. If Bill Johnson is the racist creep that he appears to be, having him as a "Ron Paul Republican" cuts into both our credibility and our status of having honest candidates. Overlooking someone like this guy may mean nothing, or it might be something that blows up in our faces and completely discredits us.

If I were supporting this guy, I'd want to know, even if it sucked at first.

stuffaduf
05-07-2008, 12:24 PM
Once again, I LIVE in LA County, so it is of great concern to myself and I'm sure others as well. He ran as a DEMOCRAT as recent as 2006. I can't really say I have a good impression of him so far.

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 12:27 PM
To me, and I don't speak for everyone, this speaks to the character of this movement. If Bill Johnson is the racist creep that he appears to be, having him as a "Ron Paul Republican" cuts into both our credibility and our status of having honest candidates. Overlooking someone like this guy may mean nothing, or it might be something that blows up in our faces and completely discredits us.

If I were supporting this guy, I'd want to know, even if it sucked at first.

Maybe considerations should be made for the stupidity of the American electorate.

Forever and a day you are engrossed with sideline issues.

Eight years of George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Need I say more...

Crash Martinez
05-07-2008, 12:33 PM
Maybe considerations should be made for the stupidity of the American electorate.

Forever and a day you are engrossed with sideline issues.

Eight years of George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Need I say more...

I am sure I don't understand the point here... :confused:

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 12:37 PM
I am sure I don't understand the point here... :confused:
Please explain?

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 12:43 PM
I am sure I don't understand the point here... :confused:
I guess, the point is, you don't have elections.

It's more of a media performance.

amy31416
05-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Maybe considerations should be made for the stupidity of the American electorate.

Forever and a day you are engrossed with sideline issues.

Eight years of George Bush and Dick Cheney.

Need I say more...

I can understand why you'd see this as a sideline issue, when there are much bigger fish to fry.

The way that I view this movement is thus: We are in our infancy, building foundations upon which we will stand or fall based on the solidity of said foundation. If we start looking the other way when someone says "I'm a Ron Paul Republican," when it's quite possible they are not, or that they are using the name to garner support, then the solidity of the foundation is compromised.

I have no room for opportunists or racists trying to hijack RP's name.

Crash Martinez
05-07-2008, 12:44 PM
Well, What are you saying?? That if people were paying attention to real issues, George Bush would never be President? I mean, yeah, I guess that's true, but I seem to be a little slow at picking up the connection between that and the current discussion...

-----

also slow at posting responses! hahaha!

Crash Martinez
05-07-2008, 12:46 PM
I have no room for opportunists or racists trying to hijack RP's name.

Exactly. I mean, it's bound to happen along the way, but if we can do anything to keep it to a minimum, especially when we know a specific case, I think we ought to be distancing ourselves very clearly from such people.

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 12:47 PM
I can understand why you'd see this as a sideline issue, when there are much bigger fish to fry.

The way that I view this movement is thus: We are in our infancy, building foundations upon which we will stand or fall based on the solidity of said foundation. If we start looking the other way when someone says "I'm a Ron Paul Republican," when it's quite possible they are not, or that they are using the name to garner support, then the solidity of the foundation is compromised.

I have no room for opportunists or racists trying to hijack RP's name.

I think you should drop your "tag line".

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 12:52 PM
Exactly. I mean, it's bound to happen along the way, but if we can do anything to keep it to a minimum, especially when we know a specific case, I think we ought to be distancing ourselves very clearly from such people.

Give me a break!

I lived in Chicago for 9 years.

Stop being self-righteous white boys.

acptulsa
05-07-2008, 12:57 PM
I think you should drop your "tag line".

Which one and what are you implying?

Yes, I lived in the "Windy City" too. On a national scale, what flies there will not fly. Sorry--it's true.

What needs to be done needs to be done--and what needs to be done is holding ourselves to a standard that it is completely unnecessary to maintain in Chicago. I remember when I moved there thinking that what went down there would never, ever fly back home. The fact remains. We're trying to play on a national stage here.

Bradley in DC
05-07-2008, 01:01 PM
I have no room for opportunists or racists trying to hijack RP's name.

+2

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
Which one and what are you implying?

Yes, I lived in the "Windy City" too. On a national scale, what flies there will not fly. Sorry--it's true.

What needs to be done needs to be done--and what needs to be done is holding ourselves to a standard that it is completely unnecessary to maintain in Chicago. I remember when I moved there thinking that what went down there would never, ever fly back home. The fact remains. We're trying to play on a national stage here.
My point is...

Everyone wastes too much time farn-arckling around.

On the International stage, you guys fail as a Democracy.

amy31416
05-07-2008, 01:04 PM
Which one and what are you implying?



That's my question for Ozwest as well.

Crash Martinez
05-07-2008, 01:05 PM
Give me a break!

I lived in Chicago for 9 years.

Stop being self-righteous white boys.


What??

Crash Martinez
05-07-2008, 01:06 PM
My point is...

Everyone wastes too much time farn-arckling around.

On the International stage, you guys fail as a Democracy.

Whatever. I can't figure out what you're talking about.

amy31416
05-07-2008, 01:07 PM
My point is...

Everyone wastes too much time farn-arckling around.

On the International stage, you guys fail as a Democracy.

Perhaps you might want to send your vitriol to the Obama or Hillary camp then, we're the ones trying to fix things here.

Stop and consider that what you think is "farn-arckling" around just might not be. If people put some thought and research into who they're voting for, we wouldn't have had Bush for 8 years. Or the Clintons. Or Larry Craig. . . .I could go on.

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 01:11 PM
I'm obviously not on the same level of thought as you guys.

I'm not interested in offending anyone.

Perhaps I'm lost on this thread...

Or pissed...

amy31416
05-07-2008, 01:19 PM
I'm obviously not on the same level of thought as you guys.

I'm not interested in offending anyone.

Perhaps I'm lost on this thread...

Or pissed...

Heh, Oz, if I recall correctly, you're pissed off a lot. No worries. :)

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 01:29 PM
Heh, Oz, if I recall correctly, you're pissed off a lot. No worries. :)
Fair call.

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 01:37 PM
Heh, Oz, if I recall correctly, you're pissed off a lot. No worries. :)
No excuses, but divorce makes you a bit jaded. Hopefully you don't have to go there.

amy31416
05-07-2008, 01:44 PM
No excuses, but divorce makes you a bit jaded. Hopefully you don't have to go there.

I'll plead the 5th on my personal life, but c'mere--you need a hug! (sorry, there are no appropriate huggy emoticons, so I'll have to give you this: ;))

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 01:50 PM
I'll plead the 5th on my personal life, but c'mere--you need a hug! (sorry, there are no appropriate huggy emoticons, so I'll have to give you this: ;))
I'm all-a-glow:D

Now, give me a varmint to shoot!

amy31416
05-07-2008, 01:52 PM
I'm all-a-glow:D

Now, give me a varmint to shoot!

Well it sounds like a wascally wabbit is just your speed right now. :D

http://www.stevestiles.com/bugselmer.gif

jmdrake
05-07-2008, 01:55 PM
Sure it's possible he's no longer racist, but given that he (apparently) has a long and public record of activism on racial issues--with no easily found public record denouncing them--and claims his views are identical to Dr. Paul's, yes, we have a problem.

Hiring a KKK campaign manager is NOT acceptable.

Correction.

Johnson has been active in the Ron Paul for president campaign (he says his views on race now are identical to Paul's) and is relying on Paul supporters to rally for him. They just might do it, making it more important than ever for voters to act -- and to choose Bianco.

Emphasis on the word NOW. Let's take the late George "stand in the schoolhouse door" Wallace as an example. He was once an open and virulent racist. But before he died he (supposedly) changed his views. At least he changed them enough to get endorsements from significant black "leaders" in Alabama. Between the black vote and the white "I remember him from way back win" vote Wallace was unstoppable. (When he ran up against term limits he just ran his wife as governor.)

Something else that makes me wonder. How on earth can you run for office on an alias? From the article you originally linked:

The candidate is Bill Johnson. Under the name James O. Pace, he wrote the racial exclusion as a proposed amendment to the U.S. Constitution and a 1985 book supporting it. Under the name Daniel Johnson, he ran a losing race for Congress in Wyoming in 1989 with a Ku Klux Klan organizer as his campaign manager. As William Johnson, he ran a losing race for Congress in Arizona in 2006. He now may have found a race he can win, unless voters here find out who he is.

Disclaimer, I've never run for office before. But can you really use "pen names" for ballot access like you were writing cheap novels?

And most of the "evidence" seems based on blog posts.

Finally where is the evidence that Paul endorsed him?

Based on the smear campaigns we've seen so far and the flimsiness of the evidence I can't say I'm surprised that members of his local Meetup haven't rallied around the cry to "drum him out of the campaign". I detest white separatists and racists as much as anybody. But we don't need to let bloggers turn us into a "circular firing squad" either. I have the following suggestion. Maybe Ron Paul could have a copywrited "seal of authenticity" that could be put on the website of anybody who is a bona fide endorse of Dr. Paul. Anybody can say "I'm running for blah and I support Ron Paul" but only folks who have gone through a thorough screening process get the seal. Because this can be a time consuming process it should be reserved for only the biggest races (congress, senate, governor, mayor of large city, state supreme court etc.) Otherwise the movement will be forever chasing rumors about some "Ron Paul candidate" that might never have actually been endorsed by Dr. Paul.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Ozwest
05-07-2008, 01:59 PM
Well it sounds like a wascally wabbit is just your speed right now. :D

http://www.stevestiles.com/bugselmer.gif
LOL. I'll try and be a kinder and gentler human being.

Maybe...

Crash Martinez
05-08-2008, 08:53 AM
...according to LA Times blogger Tim Cavanagh.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/05/ron-paul-statem.html

(extended quote below)

-----------
In any event, Paul himself appears to be taking the matter seriously enough that he has renounced his end of the affiliation. Here is an email we just received from Paul's congressional chief of staff Tom Lizardo:

Over the past several weeks, I have also been involved in assisting Dr Paul with the consideration of candidates who are seeking his endorsement for their campaigns. We have gone through the process of setting up a method by which candidates are to be considered for such endorsements. During that period, we have also received and reviewed requests from dozens of candidates.

Although Bill Johnson's name ended up on the endorsement list, he did not go through this process. In light of this fact, and in light of the revelations regarding his past statements and associations, Dr Paul has retracted the endorsement and hopes that, in the future, the process that has been put into place will mitigate the likelihood of similar errors.

Several commenters claim that they know Bill Johnson and he couldn't possibly be a racist. We make no judgments on what Johnson believes in his heart, only on what he has publicly advocated. But Paul, whose attentiveness to such matters has not always been impressive, deserves credit for taking quick action in this case.
-----------

This blogger is obviously not especially friendly toward Dr. Paul and the Revolutionaries (band name? haha!), but I appreciate the follow-up nonetheless.

amy31416
05-08-2008, 09:00 AM
...according to LA Times blogger Tim Cavanagh.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/05/ron-paul-statem.html

(extended quote below)

-----------
In any event, Paul himself appears to be taking the matter seriously enough that he has renounced his end of the affiliation. Here is an email we just received from Paul's congressional chief of staff Tom Lizardo:

Over the past several weeks, I have also been involved in assisting Dr Paul with the consideration of candidates who are seeking his endorsement for their campaigns. We have gone through the process of setting up a method by which candidates are to be considered for such endorsements. During that period, we have also received and reviewed requests from dozens of candidates.

Although Bill Johnson's name ended up on the endorsement list, he did not go through this process. In light of this fact, and in light of the revelations regarding his past statements and associations, Dr Paul has retracted the endorsement and hopes that, in the future, the process that has been put into place will mitigate the likelihood of similar errors.

Several commenters claim that they know Bill Johnson and he couldn't possibly be a racist. We make no judgments on what Johnson believes in his heart, only on what he has publicly advocated. But Paul, whose attentiveness to such matters has not always been impressive, deserves credit for taking quick action in this case.
-----------

This blogger is obviously not especially friendly toward Dr. Paul and the Revolutionaries (band name? haha!), but I appreciate the follow-up nonetheless.

Thanks for posting this. It's an issue near and dear to me. I'm glad to see the retraction.

Bradley in DC
05-08-2008, 09:36 AM
...according to LA Times blogger Tim Cavanagh.

http://opinion.latimes.com/opinionla/2008/05/ron-paul-statem.html

(extended quote below)

-----------
In any event, Paul himself appears to be taking the matter seriously enough that he has renounced his end of the affiliation. Here is an email we just received from Paul's congressional chief of staff Tom Lizardo:

Over the past several weeks, I have also been involved in assisting Dr Paul with the consideration of candidates who are seeking his endorsement for their campaigns. We have gone through the process of setting up a method by which candidates are to be considered for such endorsements. During that period, we have also received and reviewed requests from dozens of candidates.

Although Bill Johnson's name ended up on the endorsement list, he did not go through this process. In light of this fact, and in light of the revelations regarding his past statements and associations, Dr Paul has retracted the endorsement and hopes that, in the future, the process that has been put into place will mitigate the likelihood of similar errors.

Several commenters claim that they know Bill Johnson and he couldn't possibly be a racist. We make no judgments on what Johnson believes in his heart, only on what he has publicly advocated. But Paul, whose attentiveness to such matters has not always been impressive, deserves credit for taking quick action in this case.
-----------



This confirms to a degree what I heard that the Bill Johnson endorsement circumvented the approval process in place (by Lew Moore--reassuringly, I'm told, this endorsement was the only one Moore was able to get past Lizardo's screening).

anonymous6728
05-13-2008, 07:21 PM
How do we know this is not a hatchet job on Bill Johnson? It's not like RP has so many supporters that he can turn people away. Besides, Ron's newsletters show that he doesn't chase away racists associated with his name. Why should we? Aren't Libertarians free to hate whoever they like? We know Republicans are.

amy31416
05-13-2008, 07:34 PM
How do we know this is not a hatchet job on Bill Johnson? It's not like RP has so many supporters that he can turn people away. Besides, Ron's newsletters show that he doesn't chase away racists associated with his name. Why should we? Aren't Libertarians free to hate whoever they like? We know Republicans are.

RP retracted his endorsement, the meetup kicked out anyone who asked questions, he never replied to any emails asking the questions, the meetup also made all messages invisible to anyone that isn't already in the meetup.

In regards to the newsletters--if you can find a cleaner, more honest politician than Ron Paul I'll vote for McCain or Obama, whomever it is you're actually for.

Ron Paul in 2008
05-21-2008, 08:07 PM
It was only a matter of time before some batshit crazy racist motherfucker like this guy came along and called himself a"Ron Paul Republican."

Rat bastard.

I'd say he sounds more intelligent than you.

Its interesting how Ron Paul supporters say the "liberal media" and the "liberal education" system are maligning Ron Paul but they agree with the media about race and racism.

To discredit the 99 percent of normal Ron Paul supporters during the campaign, the media found the craziest conspiracy theorists and focused on them repeatedly. Do you think they have not done this to racists?

I am pleased to know you trust the media.

Woah a bunch of racists support Ron Paul. We must be scared of them!

amy31416
05-21-2008, 08:15 PM
I'd say he sounds more intelligent than you.

Its interesting how Ron Paul supporters say the "liberal media" and the "liberal education" system are maligning Ron Paul but they agree with the media about race and racism.

To discredit the 99 percent of normal Ron Paul supporters during the campaign, the media found the craziest conspiracy theorists and focused on them repeatedly. Do you think they have not done this to racists?

I am pleased to know you trust the media.

Woah a bunch of racists support Ron Paul. We must be scared of them!

Ahh, so we should embrace racists/collectivists, because the liberal media, wrong about so many things, must also be wrong about how repulsive racism is?

Sorry, I don't believe for a second that racists have any place in this movement, nor do I believe they should be taken seriously for a second. They are slime and are part of the problem, certainly not part of the solution.

Go ahead and hate groups of people all you want, I won't be joining you.

Ron Paul in 2008
05-21-2008, 08:24 PM
because the liberal media, wrong about so many things, must also be wrong about how repulsive racism is?


Ahh, so we should embrace racists



Sorry, I don't believe for a second that racists have any place in this movement, nor do I believe they should be taken seriously for a second. They are slime and are part of the problem, certainly not part of the solution.

Amy, in order to answer your questions I need to know your definition of the term racist. It has multiple meanings.



Go ahead and hate groups of people all you want, I won't be joining you.

Isn't this a generalization/stereotype? Doesn't this thinking mirror collectivism?

Bradley in DC
05-21-2008, 08:51 PM
I am pleased to know you trust the media.

I trust Tom Lizardo of the Congressional office and emphatically NOT the presidential official campaign staff. This one is the one that they got past Tom's scrutiny and speaks volumes of the difference between them. I would trust the media before the official presidential campaign staff.

Ron Paul in 2008
05-21-2008, 11:28 PM
I trust Tom Lizardo of the Congressional office and emphatically NOT the presidential official campaign staff. This one is the one that they got past Tom's scrutiny and speaks volumes of the difference between them. I would trust the media before the official presidential campaign staff.

I do understand looking at someone's race, and not their personhood, is extremely vile and no person in good conscience can condone it. However, I don't see what is wrong with upholding the historic European majority of the US. I do not see how we are benefiting from multiculturalism. I'm tired of this country being so fixated on race and the ethnic divisions among minority groups. Integration is facilitating division. If we look at a prison or school yard, ethnic groups self segregate. Fifty years ago, with the exception of the blacks, we were all just white Americans and we didn't have to listen to the neverending accusations of white racism from the Asian, Hispanic and Black community spokesman. On the other hand, the media gives them a platform so that is some food for thought.

Back to the issue, everyone is so scared about a racist Ron Paul supporter yet LA RAZA judges, which is the Mexican equivalent to the KKK, literally shape our immigration policies on capitol hill. However, I don't see anything wrong with Bill Johnson's statements of restricting citizenship to Europeans. This was the foundational immigration policy of the founding fathers and we followed it until the 1940s. All non-white nations do not extend citizenship to other races and nobody looks at this as morally wrong. If we continue non-European immigration the white race is not going to survive.

If you want to explain to me why I am wrong feel free.

G-Wohl
05-22-2008, 01:12 AM
I'd say he sounds more intelligent than you.

Its interesting how Ron Paul supporters say the "liberal media" and the "liberal education" system are maligning Ron Paul but they agree with the media about race and racism.

To discredit the 99 percent of normal Ron Paul supporters during the campaign, the media found the craziest conspiracy theorists and focused on them repeatedly. Do you think they have not done this to racists?

I am pleased to know you trust the media.

Woah a bunch of racists support Ron Paul. We must be scared of them!

Listen, sunshine: the guy tried to inflict his racism into law. He wanted to disallow sovereignty to certain ethnic groups within his State. There is absolutely NOTHING Libertarian about this. And furthermore, there is no such thing as a "good" or "better" racist - that's just patently absurd. Anybody who holds the belief that one ethnic/racial/religious/lifestyle group is inherently lesser than another is a racist, and this is NEVER an acceptable belief to hold. Those fuckers can go to the welfare-loving Democrats or the gay-bashing Republicans - those who love freedom must love freedom for all.

Why do I get the sense that so many people here are a bunch of rednecks who are simply throwing their support behind RP because they want their racist/bigoted beliefs to be upheld in the mainstream?

amy31416
05-22-2008, 05:12 AM
I do understand looking at someone's race, and not their personhood, is extremely vile and no person in good conscience can condone it. However, I don't see what is wrong with upholding the historic European majority of the US. I do not see how we are benefiting from multiculturalism. I'm tired of this country being so fixated on race and the ethnic divisions among minority groups. Integration is facilitating division. If we look at a prison or school yard, ethnic groups self segregate. Fifty years ago, with the exception of the blacks, we were all just white Americans and we didn't have to listen to the neverending accusations of white racism from the Asian, Hispanic and Black community spokesman. On the other hand, the media gives them a platform so that is some food for thought.

Back to the issue, everyone is so scared about a racist Ron Paul supporter yet LA RAZA judges, which is the Mexican equivalent to the KKK, literally shape our immigration policies on capitol hill. However, I don't see anything wrong with Bill Johnson's statements of restricting citizenship to Europeans. This was the foundational immigration policy of the founding fathers and we followed it until the 1940s. All non-white nations do not extend citizenship to other races and nobody looks at this as morally wrong. If we continue non-European immigration the white race is not going to survive.

If you want to explain to me why I am wrong feel free.

This land originally belonged to Native Americans, not white Europeans. It was stolen and we brutally murdered them to get it. It's not like this is whitey's homeland.

You don't like the inclusiveness of this country? You want to be in a country that restricts it's citizenship to Europeans? Go live in Europe.

sophocles07
05-22-2008, 05:16 AM
Amy, in order to answer your questions I need to know your definition of the term racist.

Dude....

Bradley in DC
05-22-2008, 05:53 AM
This land originally belonged to Native Americans, not white Europeans.

Shouldn't we refer to them as "Siberian-Americans"? :)

sajorojas
05-22-2008, 09:50 AM
http://i77.photobucket.com/albums/j55/sajorojas/1201662495831.jpg

sophocles07
05-22-2008, 09:59 AM
^^^Co rrect

ronpaulhawaii
05-22-2008, 10:01 AM
...

lol

:)

A rope leash
05-22-2008, 10:13 AM
Gee, why does this thread make me want to defend racists?

Freedom means freedom. Racism is not illegal. Every American is free to despise any other person on the planet. The government, however, cannot allow discrimination or hate crimes. It's as simple as that.

If some racist wants to run on a racist ticket using Ron Paul's good name as a boost, that's a problem for Ron Paul, but there's nothing illegal about it. As always, the voters will decide (or the elite, whichever you choose to believe).

There is an awful lot of racism in the USA. That's just the way it is, folks. People have freedom here, and if they want to hate over race, they can. There are tons of hate crime laws and anti-discrimination laws to protect all races and ethnic groups. Still, the races tend to live seperately, for whatever reason, the chief of these being that they are free to do so.

Where I live, I can point in any direction and give you five names of white people who don't like black folks. Black folks don't like them, either. It's a fact of life...people are dispicably stupid...and the human race has a long way to go to reach any sort of natural equality. While the media might squawk on about how awful racism is, we all know that individual prejudices are a fact of life in this country. It's because we are a free people. It's the good, the bad, and the ugly of freedom.

Anyone running on a racist platform doesn't have a chance, but it's not because people aren't racist, it's because they don't want to be seen or known as racist, due to the overall concensus that racism is immoral. Frankly, I'm white and I don't like most white people. In fact, I'm a well-known misanthrope that thinks the human race is not worthy of existence. I hate everyone pretty much equally, but no one is throwing me in jail for it, because this is free country, where people are free to be themselves so long as they do not infringe on the well-being and liberty of others.

If this candidate is a true racist, I say good for him for having the balls to admit it and to declare it. If Ron Paul doesn't want his name associated with the racist candidate, that would be "correct", but I doubt that Ron Paul would ever say that the candidate does not have a right to be a racist. One might say that this is a slippery slope...that if racist candidates start getting elected, then we are in for racist legislation...but, if we just stick to the old piece of hemp paper called the Constitution, then racist laws will never even get off the ground.

Bradley in DC
05-22-2008, 10:18 AM
Gee, why does this thread make me want to defend racists?

If some racist wants to run on a racist ticket using Ron Paul's good name as a boost, that's a problem for Ron Paul, but there's nothing illegal about it.

The thread topic is the official presidential campaign staff snookering Dr. Paul (and by passing the Congressional office) into endorsing a candidate running on a racist platform claiming it's the same as Dr. Paul's.

The incompetents have been abusing Dr. Paul's good name for more than long enough. :mad:

A rope leash
05-22-2008, 11:11 AM
I would like to comment on the above cartoon that apparently presents a southern hick as he confronts his selected hatreds.

Yes, such people exist. Stereotypes have a basis in fact. But, not every southerner is an overall-wearing, weed-chewing, ignorant racist. The cartoon is in fact, guilty of the same sort of prejudice that the described hick is guilty of. If the cartoon dipicted a black person or a Muslim spouting racist or discriminatory slurs, I think there would be many posts here decrying the illustration.

"Hicks" and "gays" seem to be the last available stereotypes that can be openly ridiculed and bashed. However, these people have a right to be who they are. The cartoon posted might be true, funny, spot-on, and "correct", but it is still prejudicial and hurtful to southerners. Hate, discrimination, and stereotyping are pretty much the norm in America...in fact, if Americans didn't have some group they could make fun of or criticize, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

Everyone, it seems, needs an enemy. Take a good look at yourself, Americans.

ronpaulhawaii
05-22-2008, 11:19 AM
I would like to comment on the above cartoon that apparently presents a southern hick as he confronts his selected hatreds.

Yes, such people exist. Stereotypes have a basis in fact. But, not every southerner is an overall-wearing, weed-chewing, ignorant racist. The cartoon is in fact, guilty of the same sort of prejudice that the described hick is guilty of. If the cartoon dipicted a black person or a Muslim spouting racist or discriminatory slurs, I think there would be many posts here decrying the illustration.

"Hicks" and "gays" seem to be the last available stereotypes that can be openly ridiculed and bashed. However, these people have a right to be who they are. The cartoon posted might be true, funny, spot-on, and "correct", but it is still prejudicial and hurtful to southerners. Hate, discrimination, and stereotyping are pretty much the norm in America...in fact, if Americans didn't have some group they could make fun of or criticize, they wouldn't know what to do with themselves.

Everyone, it seems, needs an enemy. Take a good look at yourself, Americans.

While you raise some good points, I think a southerner would have drawled in the balloons. Rednecks ain't indigenous to the south

Ron Paul in 2008
05-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Listen, sunshine: the guy tried to inflict his racism into law. He wanted to disallow sovereignty to certain ethnic groups within his State. There is absolutely NOTHING Libertarian about this.

Yes, given today's realities, I don't agree. But this was in 1988? These political witchhunts are ridiculous.

According to the Tuskegee Institute, 3,437 African-American victims, as well as 1,293 white victims, were lynched in our nation's history.

Source: 1959 Tuskegee Institute lynch Report as reported in the Montgomery Advertiser; April 26, 1959, and published in 100 Years Of Lynching by Ralph Ginzburg (1962, 1988).

The cited cases for lynching were rape, murder and other crime. At the height of the second Klan's power, which had 6 million members, African American leader Marcus Garvey said of his meeting in Atlanta, Georgia with KKK imperial giant Edward Young Clarke:

“I regard the Klan, the Anglo-Saxon clubs and White American societies, as far as the Negro is concerned, as better friends of the race than all other groups of hypocritical whites put together. I like honesty and fair play. You may call me a Klansman if you will, but, potentially, every white man is a Klansman, as far as the Negro in competition with whites socially, economically and politically is concerned, and there is no use lying.”

Source: Spartucus Educational website, Ku Klux Klan, quoting from Negro World (September, 1923). Accessed December 3, 2007.

http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/USAkkk.htm

According to the Bureau of Justice Statistics, more whites have been killed by blacks from 2000-2005 than all lynchings combined.

Source: http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/tables/ovracetab.htm#numbers

This doesn't include how many whites are murdered by Latinos and other races which will certainly double the lynching figure. According to the last US census, blacks were twelve percent of the US population while non-Hispanic whites were 65 percent.

The media wants us to believe white racists are the biggest threat to our national security and not the hordes of third world immigrants pouring across the border.

So what if he had those views? Does he have them now? We can only accept people who shared societies view their whole entire lives? It was twenty years ago! He said he changed his views. Isn't this discrimination? This is like if you smoked pot twenty years ago I shouldn't approve you for any political position. You may very well rule in favor of marijuanna and potheads or be a closet pothead yourself.

I wish conservatives put the energy they use to defeat "white racists" into defeating La Raza judges.



And furthermore, there is no such thing as a "good" or "better" racist - that's just patently absurd. Anybody who holds the belief that one ethnic/racial/religious/lifestyle group is inherently lesser than another is a racist, and this is NEVER an acceptable belief to hold.

Australian Aborigines eat people! You think white Christian civilization is equal with Africa? The race with groups who think if they have sex with children it will cure them of AIDS? Why does the black men depend on the white man for aid, food, etc?



Those fuckers can go to the welfare-loving Democrats or the gay-bashing Republicans - those who love freedom must love freedom for all.

Our freedom depends upon understanding history and today's socio-political realities. The stronger our economy is, the less need people have for government. This is why democrats agitated our all white immigration policy to the enduring tide of third world immigrants to pound the cinder blocks of our civilization.



Why do I get the sense that so many people here are a bunch of rednecks who are simply throwing their support behind RP because they want their racist/bigoted beliefs to be upheld in the mainstream?

lol. Ron Paul mainstream? The man with the supporters with the tinfoil hats and 9/11 conspiracy theorists? Whenever I tell someone I am a Ron Paul supporter I assume they are going to associate me with this.

Ron Paul in 2008
05-22-2008, 01:44 PM
This land originally belonged to Native Americans, not white Europeans. It was stolen and we brutally murdered them to get it.

Didn't they die of European disease?



It's not like this is whitey's homeland.

Your argument, if we can call it one, Amy, violates nature's law.

To follow it, we will have to relocate 70 million Turks and the 297 million residents of the United States not native to this continent so the natives can live in harmony with nature as they did before the evil white man came.

Do you think the world will benefit by leaving the Americans and Canadian part of North America to 2-3 million native Americans? We'd have to relocate virtually all of the world's peoples. This is just some mindless, anti-white white, white guilt promoting statement.

We can leave the continent so the Muslims or Asians can recolonize.

The United States was founded by the white man and made the number one superpower by the white race. We had no obligation to grant citizenship to the native Americans.

It's obvious you were "educated" by liberal academia. Can you cite anything positive Americans have done in our history or have we just have massacred everyone?



You don't like the inclusiveness of this country? You want to be in a country that restricts it's citizenship to Europeans? Go live in Europe.

They do not. They largely reject Europeans or whites for citizenship. You have to be a Muslim, African or some other third worlder. If you can give me one white country that is white only and is projected to stay white, I'd happily move.

amy31416
05-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Didn't they die of European disease?

There were some who died of epidemic diseases, some of it was unintentional, some of it wasn't. Others were murdered, some even call it genocide considering Europeans almost wiped them out.



Your argument, if we can call it one, Amy, violates nature's law.

To follow it, we will have to relocate 70 million Turks and the 297 million residents of the United States not native to this continent so the natives can live in harmony with nature as they did before the evil white man came.

Do you think the world will benefit by leaving the Americans and Canadian part of North America to 2-3 million native Americans? We'd have to relocate virtually all of the world's peoples. This is just some mindless, anti-white white, white guilt promoting statement.

We can leave the continent so the Muslims or Asians can recolonize.

The United States was founded by the white man and made the number one superpower by the white race. We had no obligation to grant citizenship to the native Americans.


You are absolutely out of your mind to defend genocide. Do I think the world would benefit by giving the Americas back to the native Americans now? Probably not. I'm not anti-white, but I can still recognize a shitty thing when I see it.



It's obvious you were "educated" by liberal academia. Can you cite anything positive Americans have done in our history or have we just have massacred everyone?


You've made an incorrect assumption, ace. Of course we've done a lot of great things. It's obvious you were "educated" by someone with the information and ethics of a Grand Dragon, or whatever they call the leader of the Klan.



They do not. They largely reject Europeans or whites for citizenship. You have to be a Muslim, African or some other third worlder. If you can give me one white country that is white only and is projected to stay white, I'd happily move.

Wait, where's the WAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance? Poor white guy, you have no 100% white country--so repressed here in the US. What a bunch of crap.

Go to Iceland, that's as close as your translucent ass will get to 100% white.

sophocles07
05-22-2008, 02:10 PM
Grand Dragon

Wizard?

amy31416
05-22-2008, 02:11 PM
Wizard?

Yeah, I think that's it--it's been a while since the last meeting. (joking folks.)

Lord Xar
05-22-2008, 06:14 PM
hmm, I am a little confused. Based on that piece, how can one make heads or tails if its legit or not? Seems some serious posters here are jumping all up and down on this guy and I am curious if any of you actually truly know.

I *think* I met this guy a few times during some Ron Paul Meetups and even went to his home for a meetup meeting, and I would never in a million years even think he was a racist. I mean, the blogger writes from a completely "give me give me give me" mentality and of course would want a handout giver such as Bianca - who has been suggested to be 'on the take'.

But I digress.

I met a man named Bill Johnson and he seemed on the level and normal. Nothing untoward came out of his mouth and nothing was said other than restoring freedoms.

So I am a bit confused at the obvious lynch mob going on here.

Lord Xar
05-22-2008, 06:23 PM
Thanks. We here are guilty of it as well, and I do understand it. Sometimes the truth is painful, and doesn't mesh with our experience.

For instance, the racist-leaning postcard that HQ put out that Wonkette got their hands on. While I still certainly don't think RP is a racist, it was certainly an eye-opener as to how dumb the HQ could be at times. (I know, I know--us "Yankees" don't get it. Nope, I don't."

The newsletters. It was an eye-opener about RP's blind trust in those he counts on. We were all quite reactionary about that.

If the truth is troubling and disillusioning, all the more reason to pursue it. The alternative is electing someone whose weaknesses you don't really know.

Amy, correct me if I'm wrong, but that picture posted at Wonkette was taken from a libertarian website and thus propogated around. YET, the image was proven to be a fake and NOT attributed to the campaign.

hmmm. Whats your deal?

Lord Xar
05-22-2008, 06:30 PM
There were some who died of epidemic diseases, some of it was unintentional, some of it wasn't. Others were murdered, some even call it genocide considering Europeans almost wiped them out.



You are absolutely out of your mind to defend genocide. Do I think the world would benefit by giving the Americas back to the native Americans now? Probably not. I'm not anti-white, but I can still recognize a shitty thing when I see it.



You've made an incorrect assumption, ace. Of course we've done a lot of great things. It's obvious you were "educated" by someone with the information and ethics of a Grand Dragon, or whatever they call the leader of the Klan.



Wait, where's the WAAAAAAAAAAAAmbulance? Poor white guy, you have no 100% white country--so repressed here in the US. What a bunch of crap.

Go to Iceland, that's as close as your translucent ass will get to 100% white.

Amy, stop with your "white man guilt" - its tiresome and childish. If you want to give biased and subjective history lessons, then do so from an academic and worldly view - not one cooked up and served based on your agenda. I would say *most* wars, *most* land grabs, *most* growing pains from technology and advancement is driven by those who benefit and those who don't. You seem to have bought into the evil "white" man scenario and thats cool - but give your tired hemorrhage of dialogue to other guilt ridden persons, not here.


****************

I HAVE A PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA
RICHARD D. LAMM

I HAVE A SECRET PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA. IF YOU BELIEVE, AS MANY DO, THAT AMERICA IS TOO SMUG, TOO WHITE BREAD, TOO SELF-SATISFIED, TOO RICH, LETS DESTROY AMERICA. IT IS NOT THAT HARD TO DO. HISTORY SHOWS THAT NATIONS ARE MORE FRAGILE THAN THEIR CITIZENS THINK. NO NATION IN HISTORY HAS SURVIVED THE RAVAGES OF TIME. ARNOLD TOYNBEE OBSERVED THAT ALL GREAT CIVILIZATIONS RISE AND THEY ALL FALL, AND THAT "AN AUTOPSY OF HISTORY WOULD SHOW THAT ALL GREAT NATIONS COMMIT SUICIDE." HERE IS MY PLAN:

I. WE MUST FIRST MAKE AMERICA A BILINGUAL-BICULTURAL COUNTRY. HISTORY SHOWS, IN MY OPINION, THAT NO NATION CAN SURVIVE THE TENSION, CONFLICT, AND ANTAGONISM OF TWO COMPETING LANGUAGES AND CULTURES. IT IS A BLESSING FOR AN INDIVIDUAL TO BE BILINGUAL; IT IS A CURSE FOR A SOCIETY TO BE BILINGUAL. ONE SCHOLAR, SEYMOUR MARTIN LIPSET, PUT IT THIS WAY:

THE HISTORIES OF BILINGUAL AND BICULTURAL SOCIETIES THAT DO NOT ASSIMILATE ARE HISTORIES OF TURMOIL, TENSION, AND TRAGEDY. CANADA, BELGIUM, MALAYSIA, LEBANON-ALL FACE CRISES OF NATIONAL EXISTENCE IN WHICH MINORITIES PRESS FOR AUTONOMY, IF NOT INDEPENDENCE. PAKISTAN AND CYPRUS HAVE DIVIDED. NIGERIA SUPPRESSED AN ETHNIC REBELLION. FRANCE FACES DIFFICULTIES WITH ITS BASQUES, BRETONS, AND CORSICANS.
II. I WOULD THEN INVENT "MULTICULTURALISM" AND ENCOURAGE IMMIGRANTS TO MAINTAIN THEIR OWN CULTURE. I WOULD MAKE IT AN ARTICLE OF BELIEF THAT ALL CULTURES ARE EQUAL: THAT THERE ARE NO CULTURAL DIFFERENCES THAT ARE IMPORTANT. I WOULD DECLARE IT AN ARTICLE OF FAITH THAT THE BLACK AND HISPANIC DROPOUT RATE IS ONLY DUE TO PREJUDICE AND DISCRIMINATION BY THE MAJORITY. EVERY OTHER EXPLANATION IS OUT-OF-BOUNDS.

III. WE CAN MAKE THE UNITED STATES A "HISPANIC QUEBEC" WITHOUT MUCH EFFORT. THE KEY IS TO CELEBRATE DIVERSITY RATHER THAN UNITY. AS BENJAMIN SCHWARZ SAID IN THE ATLANTIC MONTHLY RECENTLY:
...THE APPARENT SUCCESS OF OUR OWN MULTIETHNIC AND MULTICULTURAL EXPERIMENT MIGHT HAVE BEEN ACHIEVED NOT BY TOLERANCE BUT BY HEGEMONY. WITHOUT THE DOMINANCE THAT ONCE DICTATED ETHNOCENTRICALLY, AND WHAT IT MEANT TO BE AN AMERICAN, WE ARE LEFT WITH ONLY TOLERANCE AND PLURALISM TO HOLD US TOGETHER.
I WOULD ENCOURAGE ALL IMMIGRANTS TO KEEP THEIR OWN LANGUAGE AND CULTURE. I WOULD REPLACE THE MELTING POT METAPHOR WITH A SALAD BOWL METAPHOR. IT IS IMPORTANT TO INSURE THAT WE HAVE VARIOUS CULTURAL SUB-GROUPS LIVING IN AMERICA REINFORCING THEIR DIFFERENCES RATHER THAN AMERICANS, EMPHASIZING THEIR SIMILARITIES.

IV. HAVING DONE ALL THIS, I WOULD MAKE OUR FASTEST GROWING DEMOGRAPHIC GROUP THE LEAST EDUCATED - I WOULD ADD A SECOND UNDERCLASS, UNASSIMILATED, UNDEREDUCATED, AND ANTAGONISTIC TO OUR POPULATION. I WOULD HAVE THIS SECOND UNDERCLASS HAVE A 50% DROP OUT RATE FROM SCHOOL.

V. I WOULD THEN GET THE BIG FOUNDATIONS AND BIG BUSINESS TO GIVE THESE EFFORTS LOTS OF MONEY. I WOULD INVEST IN ETHNIC IDENTITY, AND I WOULD ESTABLISH THE CULT OF VICTIMOLOGY. I WOULD GET ALL MINORITIES TO THINK THEIR LACK OF SUCCESS WAS ALL THE FAULT OF THE MAJORITY - I WOULD START A GRIEVANCE INDUSTRY BLAMING ALL MINORITY FAILURE ON THE MAJORITY POPULATION.

VI. I WOULD ESTABLISH DUAL CITIZENSHIP AND PROMOTE DIVIDED LOYALTIES. I WOULD "CELEBRATE DIVERSITY." "DIVERSITY" IS A WONDERFULLY SEDUCTIVE WORD. IT STRESSES DIFFERENCES RATHER THAN COMMONALITIES. DIVERSE PEOPLE WORLDWIDE ARE MOSTLY ENGAGED IN HATING EACH OTHER-THAT IS, WHEN THEY ARE NOT KILLING EACH OTHER. A DIVERSE," PEACEFUL, OR STABLE SOCIETY IS AGAINST MOST HISTORICAL PRECEDENT. PEOPLE UNDERVALUE THE UNITY IT TAKES TO KEEP A NATION TOGETHER, AND WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF THIS MYOPIA. LOOK AT THE ANCIENT GREEKS. DORF'S WORLD HISTORY TELLS US:
THE GREEKS BELIEVED THAT THEY BELONGED TO THE SAME RACE; THEY POSSESSED A COMMON LANGUAGE AND LITERATURE; AND THEY WORSHIPED THE SAME GODS. ALL GREECE TOOK PART IN THE OLYMPIC GAMES IN HONOR OF ZEUS AND ALL GREEKS VENERATED THE SHRINE OF APOLLO AT DELPHI. A COMMON ENEMY PERSIA THREATENED THEIR LIBERTY. YET, ALL OF THESE BONDS TOGETHER WERE NOT STRONG ENOUGH TO OVERCOME TWO FACTORS . . . (LOCAL PATRIOTISM AND GEOGRAPHICAL CONDITIONS THAT NURTURED POLITICAL DIVISIONS . . .)
IF WE CAN PUT THE EMPHASIS ON THE "PLURIBUS," INSTEAD OF THE "UNUM," WE CAN BALKANIZE AMERICA AS SURELY AS KOSOVO.

VII. THEN I WOULD PLACE ALL THESE SUBJECTS OFF LIMITS - MAKE IT TABOO TO TALK ABOUT. I WOULD FIND A WORD SIMILAR TO "HERETIC" IN THE 16TH CENTURY - THAT STOPPED DISCUSSION AND PARALYZED THINKING. WORDS LIKE "RACIST", "XENOPHOBE" THAT HALTS ARGUMENT AND CONVERSATION.

HAVING MADE AMERICA A BILINGUAL-BICULTURAL COUNTRY, HAVING ESTABLISHED MULTICULTURALISM, HAVING THE LARGE FOUNDATIONS FUND THE DOCTRINE OF "VICTIMOLOGY", I WOULD NEXT MAKE IT IMPOSSIBLE TO ENFORCE OUR IMMIGRATION LAWS. I WOULD DEVELOP A MANTRA - "THAT BECAUSE IMMIGRATION HAS BEEN GOOD FOR AMERICA, IT MUST ALWAYS BE GOOD." I WOULD MAKE EVERY INDIVIDUAL IMMIGRANT SYMPATRIC AND IGNORE THE CUMULATIVE IMPACT.

VIII. LASTLY, I WOULD CENSOR VICTOR HANSON DAVIS'S BOOK MEXIFORNIA — THIS BOOK IS DANGEROUS — IT EXPOSES MY PLAN TO DESTROY AMERICA. SO PLEASE, PLEASE — IF YOU FEEL THAT AMERICA DESERVES TO BE DESTROYED — PLEASE, PLEASE — DON'T BUY THIS BOOK! THIS GUY IS ON TO MY PLAN.
"THE SMART WAY TO KEEP PEOPLE PASSIVE AND OBEDIENT IS TO STRICTLY LIMIT THE SPECTRUM OF ACCEPTABLE OPINION, BUT ALLOW VERY LIVELY DEBATE WITHIN THAT SPECTRUM." — NOAM CHOMSKY, AMERICAN LINGUIST AND US MEDIA AND FOREIGN POLICY CRITIC.
Both Governor Lamm and the writer of the e-mail misidentify the author of the book Mexifornia, whose correct name is Victor Davis Hanson.

sophocles07
05-22-2008, 06:37 PM
Amy, stop with your "white man guilt" - its tiresome and childish. If you want to give biased and subjective history lessons, then do so from an academic and worldly view - not one cooked up and served based on your agenda. I would say *most* wars, *most* land grabs, *most* growing pains from technology and advancement is driven by those who benefit and those who don't. You seem to have bought into the evil "white" man scenario and thats cool - but give your tired hemorrhage of dialogue to other guilt ridden persons, not here.

I think the original intent was to counter someone who is obviously racist:


If we continue non-European immigration the white race is not going to survive.

Otherwise I doubt it would have been brought up.

Lord Xar
05-22-2008, 06:39 PM
I think the original intent was to counter someone who is obviously racist:



Otherwise I doubt it would have been brought up.

Ok, I took offense. Its cool. I must be tired.

amy31416
05-22-2008, 06:52 PM
Amy, correct me if I'm wrong, but that picture posted at Wonkette was taken from a libertarian website and thus propogated around. YET, the image was proven to be a fake and NOT attributed to the campaign.

hmmm. Whats your deal?

I believe Jonathan Bydlak confirmed that it was, in fact, from the official HQ. That was an epic thread, so I'd be hard pressed to find the exact post, but I'm almost 100% sure I read that. Anyone who can confirm that or tell me otherwise--please do.

yongrel
05-22-2008, 06:53 PM
I believe Jonathan Bydlak confirmed that it was, in fact, from the official HQ. That was an epic thread, so I'd be hard pressed to find the exact post, but I'm almost 100% sure I read that. Anyone who can confirm that or tell me otherwise--please do.

Correct. Bydlak confirmed that it was a campaign production in poor taste. Our consolation prize is that the model is an RP supporter.

amy31416
05-22-2008, 06:55 PM
Amy, stop with your "white man guilt" - its tiresome and childish. If you want to give biased and subjective history lessons, then do so from an academic and worldly view - not one cooked up and served based on your agenda. I would say *most* wars, *most* land grabs, *most* growing pains from technology and advancement is driven by those who benefit and those who don't. You seem to have bought into the evil "white" man scenario and thats cool - but give your tired hemorrhage of dialogue to other guilt ridden persons, not here.



I'm not a scholar on the Native American experience, but I am vehemently opposed to racism, and always will be. White people should not feel guilty about their color, but white people who recommend that all "non-white" people be kicked out of the country get my ire.

amy31416
05-22-2008, 06:56 PM
Correct. Bydlak confirmed that it was a campaign production in poor taste. Our consolation prize is that the model is an RP supporter.

Seriously? He's a supporter? Sheeeit--I missed that.

Bryan
05-22-2008, 10:05 PM
Hijacked posts are in:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=139112

Please keep it on-topic. Thanks!

Crash Martinez
05-23-2008, 04:10 PM
As for me, Bill Johnson's potential racism was NOT the only reason I was happy to see his endorsement retracted, as I pointed out:


I've never liked the way people get all "hyper" about perceived opposition. The members of that Meetup group ought to be more focused on the issues and the truth, and less on the effects those things might have on "their" candidate's chances. After all, we only support Ron Paul Republicans based on their positions and their character - surely those things are therefore subject to open scrutiny!

Speaking of which, some of these "traditional Democrat" policies don't strike me as very reminiscent of Ron Paul: http://web.archive.org/web/20060813131502/www.gobilljohnson.com/issues.htm

Again, though, I really appreciate you guys looking into this. We don't need or want to be associating with bigots, and neither do any real Ron Paul Republicans. I'm sure this is a troubling and disillusioning experience for those Meetup members, but they'd better get past it quick, in the interest of the integrity of our whole movement. (...Not that WE'LL ever be held back!!)

-Peter Gay


EDIT: For the lazier among us, here's some examples of none-too-Paulian positions espoused by Johnson on that website:

No Refugees - At the end of all past conflicts, America has taken in a large number of refugees from countries we have fought. This time we should not make immigration available to the vanquished Iraqis.

Health Care Reform
Bill Johnson intends to give serious consideration to a universal health care system similar to the Massachusetts State example of mandatory health coverage. This plan would require all persons to procure and maintain health coverage either through their employers or as an individual. No subsidies or coverage would be available to illegal immigrants.

Role of Corporations in America
Corporations and business enterprise play a vital role in America, but under the leadership of special-interest Republicans, that role has been obscured. Businesses should not have as its primary goal the generation of shareholder profits and excessive executive compensation--at the expense of society, the environment and the worker. Corporate America should be encouraged to establish the following goals in the following order:
Provide valuable goods and services to its customers
Provide living wages to its employees, and a working environment that will enable the employee to enjoy life in the fullest
Promote sound environmental policies that will help preserve this great land for our descendants.
If the corporations will embrace these goals, then government must reciprocate. This means that the government must reduce taxes, government expenditures, and the size and reach of government. We must also dramatically reduce the current litigious environment that acts to redistribute wealth to litigants and their legal counsel.
In order to earn easy profits and to drive down domestic labor costs, Republican policies encourage the outsourcing of jobs overseas and illegal immigration. They also are not as sensitive to environmental concerns as they should be. Traditional Democrats promote the environment and the work force, while creating a business environment that corporate leadership embraces.

Environment and Energy
Bill Johnson is an environmentalist. Dealing with the nation?s energy problem is a top priority. He strongly supports legislation that will preserve our nation?s natural resources for future generations. It is important to cut day-to-day consumption by all segments of society. Steps to curtail global warming should be given top priority.

Science Education in School
Bill Johnson will support science education in school. Intelligent design is an appropriate topic for church, but not the schoolroom .

David A. Gay, Sr.
05-23-2008, 09:20 PM
Those positions on the issues are nothing short of a National Socialist.... Hmmmm... Where have I heard that before.

Does anyone else realize how close these progressives and democrats sound to Nazis?

mudsling3
05-25-2008, 10:01 PM
To paint a more complete picture, albeit a couple years OLD. The followings come from the same link as Crash Martinez

"Withdrawal of Troops - Bill Johnson supports the expeditious withdrawal of all troops from Iraq. The best way to support our troops is to bring them home."

"Bill Johnson strongly supports gun owners rights."

Right to Privacy
"Mr. Johnson confirms the constitutional right to privacy and will vigorously oppose the Bush Administration�s efforts to undermine that right."

"Bill Johnson supports right to die laws."

Taxation, Spending and the National Debt
"The expanding national debt will be debilitating to future generations. It must be addressed now. As a rule, Bill Johnson will seek to cut federal spending. He will not support tax increases. He believes that military spending as well as many governmental programs, should be subject to cuts and reduced appropriations."

Oppose Government's Obsession with Secrecy
"Since George W. Bush entered office, there has been more than a 75% increase in the amount of government information classified as secret each year. Misinformation is also rampant. Bill Johnson will vigorously oppose this trend."

Overall Legislative Approach: One of Restraint
"Bill Johnson's approach to legislation will be one of deliberation and reserve. He recognizes that the nation is already governed by more laws, rules, regulations and judicial precedents than all other nation's combined. He believes that each new law often chips away at individual freedom. As a result, absent compelling state interest, Bill Johnson is generally disinclined to support new legislation."

"Mr. Johnson has engaged in numerous border control activities. He is involved with American Democrats for a Secure Border and is a major contributor to the Minuteman Project"

Assumming nothing has changed, with these believes, what choice does Bill Johnson have in this presidential election? Can you see RON PAUL flashing on top of his head.

It is obvious the Times piece coming form supporters of Johnson's opponent James Bianco. It also attempts to smear RP and his supporters. It mentioned that Johnson was helping Rev. Tan to select some Filipino Americans into Suprior Court Judges aginst 6 Latino Judges. Hope that anyone can see that by this action, Johnson has negated what he stated in the Pace's amendment. It's unfortunite that the Times immediately endorsed Bianco and the 6 Latino Judges without further investigation.

I have met Bill Johnson in many RP supporting events and been to his house numerous times. Pale, blond, blue? I couldn't be further from it. I have NOT a hint of slight discrimination from him, nor from his children - the best indiction, apples do fall far from the tree.

Bill Johnson is definitely not Ron Paul, but I hope those are in the postion of electing Judges in take a better and closer look at all candidates, and pick the lesser of two weevils.

Hello to all, it's my first post here but a long timer at DailyPaul...like the different format here.

Bradley in DC
05-25-2008, 10:23 PM
I have met Bill Johnson in many RP supporting events and been to his house numerous times. Pale, blond, blue? I couldn't be further from it. I have NOT a hint of slight discrimination from him, nor from his children - the best indiction, apples do fall far from the tree.

Bill Johnson is definitely not Ron Paul, but I hope those are in the postion of electing Judges in take a better and closer look at all candidates, and pick the lesser of two weevils.

Hello to all, it's my first post here but a long timer at DailyPaul...like the different format here.

Wow, first post on RPFs is to defend someone claiming RP's mantel as a racist? Interesting.

ronpaulhawaii
05-25-2008, 10:33 PM
Another enigma. I share the same sentiments as our new member, after spending a night at Bill's place. Not a hint of Racism.

...haven't been keeping up but I did NOT like the look of that Pace business...

mudsling3
05-25-2008, 11:44 PM
Wow, first post on RPFs is to defend someone claiming RP's mantel as a racist? Interesting.

Could you clarify a bit of your statement? Are you refering to where Johnson said that now his race views are same as those of RP? I thought that was the Times's attempt to smear on RP without explicitly stating RP's individualism.

People do change...just look at the fellow named Eric D mentioned in another thread were quoting RP's praise for him. Regarding the Pace amendment, take a look at 8:20 Mark here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6UdFsL9iy84&feature=related Tom Metzger ask, "and this is his brain child?" Jessie Johnson,"actually, he learned everthing he knew at his father's knee..." There is no excuse what he had done. But Bill has been a strong supporter of RP in organzing meetups, fund raisings, hope that he has come around.

I have spent quite a bit of time gathering info before I posted. Judging by some of the posts in this thread, quantity doesn't mean quality at all.

Bradley in DC
05-26-2008, 07:54 AM
I have spent quite a bit of time gathering info before I posted. Judging by some of the posts in this thread, quantity doesn't mean quality at all.

My opinion is pretty much entirely based on Tom Lizardo's assessment--and that's more than good enough for me. Interesting that his supporters had to utilize the incompetent presidential campaign staff to circumvent Tom's vetting process to get an endorsement.

mudsling3
05-26-2008, 10:05 AM
Here is Tom's statement regarding Bill Johnson
"Although Bill Johnson's name ended up on the endorsement list, he did not go through this process. In light of this fact, and in light of the revelations regarding his past statements and associations, Dr Paul has retracted the endorsement and hopes that, in the future, the process that has been put into place will mitigate the likelihood of similar errors."

However, I don't see how someone can conclude this statement - "...defend someone claiming RP's mantel as a racist". Unless you received some other hard evidence from him. Tom's accessment is about Johnson's past(20years ago) and the risk to the current entire campaign. Johnson has long disassociated himself from the Pace movement and now align himself with RP in actions. On the other hand, you may have noticed incident that Mr. Goldwater Jr had asked RP supporters united to support Mccain in a recent Orange County GOP meeting. Politics make odd bed-fellows. http://ronpaul.meetup.com/59/calendar/7899707/

I just want to share my personal observations of Bill Johnson and this incident. Hope that supporters will ask tough questions of him, think critically and decide form themselves.

Ozwest
05-26-2008, 10:34 AM
Another enigma. I share the same sentiments as our new member, after spending a night at Bill's place. Not a hint of Racism.

...haven't been keeping up but I did NOT like the look of that Pace business...


Enigmatic. :cool:

RPTXState
05-26-2008, 01:25 PM
We had a similar problem; A Texas Secessionist bible-thumper opposed John Cornyn for Senate as the self-proclaimed "Ron Paul candidate". He lost in a landslide.

Bradley in DC
05-26-2008, 01:28 PM
However, I don't see how someone can conclude this statement - "...defend someone claiming RP's mantel as a racist". Unless you received some other hard evidence from him.

I had private conversations with Tom on this subject, yes.

Roxi
05-26-2008, 03:04 PM
No excuses, but divorce makes you a bit jaded. Hopefully you don't have to go there.


yes, and if you ALSO have a sick dog at the same time, things can get pretty hairy:rolleyes:

Roxi
05-26-2008, 03:07 PM
ALSO we might want to remember that the person who started these accusations in the first place did so under a blog titled "why i hate ron paul" so how much credibility do we give it? i don't know... it definitely needs to be researched but i would really like to have Bill come here and explain it to us, or do a youtube video about the accusations or something...


does anyone have his email address? could we send him a link here inviting him to discuss this with us?

mudsling3
05-26-2008, 06:26 PM
I had private conversations with Tom on this subject, yes.

Yes about what? you expect me to fill in the blank? From one of your previous post, you were saying that Bill Johnson "is running" on a racist platform, notice the present tense? Here again, you are saying that Tom confirms Johnson/someone claiming RP's mentel as a racist. Why would Johnson openly acuse RP as a racist with Tom? Hope you can give more solid info to prove these two points.


@ roxic27, I will forward this link to Bill Johnson.

stuffaduf
05-27-2008, 03:32 PM
it's already been confirmed that Bill Johnson was behind the Pace Amendments. That's not really up for debate at this point.

What I'm not satisfied with is NO response on the part of Bill to denounce or re-affirm his beliefs regarding the Pace Amendments, etc. Besides first hand accounts of how people have been treated by Bill Johnson, that is not enough for me to give him my vote without any statement on the matter one way or the other.

Am I missing some public statement or press release that Mr. Johnson has put out since the allegations broke? I am aware of none.