Net Impact Of Delegate Push: Helpful Or Harmful?

[Sally08]

Given the outcomes of the recent Nevada and Maine state-level conventions, as they stand today, has the grass roots effort to honor RP's request in his 3/8 video succeeded or failed in meeting RP's intentions?

RP Quotes in 3/6/08 Video:
The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers.

I will continue to make every effort to visit any state where the enthusiasm for liberty exists.

The campaign for freedom will continue in this new phase.

We are still in the early stages of bringing about the changes that this revolution is all about.

Let us hope that we can one day look back and say that this campaign was a significant first step that signaled a change in direction for our country. Our job now is to plan for the next phase.

My interpretation of RP's request was for his supporters to become involved within the GOP organization, to do the necessary footwork to become respected elected officials at the local precinct/county/state levels as the prerequisite preparation to become national officials in the future.

The primary issue I have had with the push to become delegates at each level to be able to send delegates to the Republican National Convention (RNC) was that the intended result has been to win the GOP nomination for RP, which RP did not mention in his videotape.

Much worse is the fact that the very public posts and actions about becoming delegates by "stealth" to "stage a coup" at the RNC have done a tremendous amount of damage to RP's reputation and to his hope that we would be taking a "significant first step".

Given the "blowback" against known RP delegates before, during, and after the Nevada and Maine state conventions, those who have been trying to honor RP's request to get involved locally are finding that being identified as an "RP supporter" is detrimental to working toward the changes to return the GOP to its original platform.

Obviously, it is now the "RP delegates" that are being labeled "whackos" or "subversives" or other labels with negative connotations.

Is that the type of reputation that RP planned for the "significant first step"? Did RP ever imagine that any of his delegates would consider him/herself as a "super-delegate of one" with many posting their hatred of the GOP online? I don't think so.

The change in posts since Nevada and, now, Maine has been noticeable. People are now posting to stress "conservative values" without mentioning RP. THINK ABOUT HOW CLEARLY THOSE POSTS INDICATE THAT BOTH RP AND THE MOVEMENT HAVE BEEN HARMED!

There are posts where RP supporters are finding that what had been a good relationship as a person in the local GOP party has been harmed due to that person's inclusion in the "RP supporter" umbrella.

I have been concerned all along that many actions were being planned that would destroy the credibility of all of those working "within the system" to gradually make changes. My biggest concern was the posts about violating state rules binding their delegates to vote for McCain in the first round *at the national level*.

On April 13th, I started the thread, "What blowback will occur if RP wins the nomination?" in www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=132901 (Note: it was moved to "Hot Topics", so it requires login to view). It discussed the various scenarios at the RNC in September.

I was appalled to realize that ***my concerns about damage have already been validated***, based on what has happened at the state level in both Nevada and Maine.

I now believe it is highly unlikely that RP will be given any opportunity to speak at the RNC. In fact, I would not be surprised to find that no national RP delegates will be recognized at the RNC at all. I hope I'm wrong.

Is that what all the effort to become delegates has accomplished? To be blocked at every turn?

I have used the analogy of a "hostile takeover". Not surprisingly, GOP officials have successfully fought back, similar to Yahoo standing up to Microsoft.

In fact, weren't the "red hats" of the McCain supporters intended to clearly identify those delegates who were *not* McCain supporters? Was that due to RP supporter posts about *not* wearing RP gear?

So where do we go from here?

Will there be any credibility remaining for "RP supporters" by the RNC?

Why does this feel like the news stories where people stood by and watched while others were planning and doing harm and did nothing to stop it?

Do we want our children to look the other way, as well, if they hear a "Columbine" being planned?

There have been dozens of new posts and "bumped" posts on a daily basis on both RPF and DP that have clearly signaled these intentions for many weeks, now.

What happened to the advice of friends to "not drive drunk"?

RP honored his promise to us to continue speaking out for liberty.

Have we failed to honor his request of us?

[Truth Warrior]

It's a pure waste of time and energy. The "fix" is in.


"The system is corrupt, beyond redemption, and is not worthy of my support!"

[UtahApocalypse]

I do think that in some ways the current events will hurt the RP movement, however it has PROVED how corrupt, and 'party' faithful the GOP is.We now know that its truly a set process where nothing matters other then the party. Principles of our country were lost long ago.

[pinkmandy]

Instead of "fighting back" the GOP should stand for principle as it once did. This is not supposed to be a hostile takeover, it's more of a "guiding" take BACK. The GOP is just as much mine as a conservative as it is any neocon's. If we go by principle, the GOP is MORE ours than the neocons.

All in all, I don't care what the blowback is though I think it's funny Sally has another blowback thread. She is VERY concerned about the GOP.

In my honest opinion, any "blowback" we suffer will be minor compared to the "blowback" the GOP suffers for being hostile towards us. There is no way they will win the Presidential election without us (an active group of CONSERVATIVES rallying against McCrazy) and we'll keep on campaigning against the neocons, wherever they may be. They could work to include us, they could have open dialogue with us and work to make the party better for everyone. If they choose not to do that, their loss.


ETA: Sally is a troll. Any of MY responses to this thread have been made with that in mind. I do not take her/him seriously and my responses reflect that. This is her/his second thread of the exact same nature.

[torchbearer]

Instead of "fighting back" the GOP should stand for principle as it once did. This is not supposed to be a hostile takeover, it's more of a "guiding" take BACK. The GOP is just as much mine as a conservative as it is any neocon's. If we go by principle, the GOP is MORE ours than the neocons.

All in all, I don't care what the blowback is though I think it's funny Sally has another blowback thread. She is VERY concerned about the GOP.

In my honest opinion, any "blowback" we suffer will be minor compared to the "blowback" the GOP suffers for being hostile towards us. There is no way they will win the Presidential election without us (an active group of CONSERVATIVES rallying against McCrazy) and we'll keep on campaigning against the neocons, wherever they may be. They could work to include us, they could have open dialogue with us and work to make the party better for everyone. If they choose not to do that, their loss.

We will get our day. There is an awakening going on... and we are leading it.

[JS4Pat]

I do think that in some ways the current events will hurt the RP movement, however it has PROVED how corrupt, and 'party' faithful the GOP is.We now know that its truly a set process where nothing matters other then the party. Principles of our country were lost long ago.

True - but we should let that serve as a motivator to INCREASE our numbers, FILL Precinct Committemen positions, VOTE in new Republican Executive Committees, AMEND platforms & rules and ultimately ENDORSE and ELECT people all over this country who share our vision for Freedom, Peace and Prosperity.

If you think the GOP is stacked against us - try doing it outside the two establishment parties.

This is our best hope - and with perserverance we can win.

(This is post 999 for me. :) )

[Kap]

In my humble opinion, I feel the GOP is nothing more than training. We have a country to take back from evil little men by educating the masses who are either apathetic or ignorant to the evils our federal goverment commits.

I say keep the torch of liberty lit and follow it no matter the course. The GOP can undergo this reformation or fall. In it's current state it is nothing more that a useless rubber stamp, much like the Democratic party.

[Sally08]

-snip-All in all, I don't care what the blowback is though I think it's funny Sally has another blowback thread. She is VERY concerned about the GOP.

In my honest opinion, any "blowback" we suffer will be minor compared to the "blowback" the GOP suffers for being hostile towards us. There is no way they will win the Presidential election without us (an active group of CONSERVATIVES rallying against McCrazy) and we'll keep on campaigning against the neocons, wherever they may be. They could work to include us, they could have open dialogue with us and work to make the party better for everyone. If they choose not to do that, their loss.

AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Is pinkmandy concerned ABOUT RP at all?

Isn't this in direct DEFIANCE of what RP intended?

[angelatc]

I think it helps. If we don't win it is a valuable training exercise. An infinite amount of knowledge has been gained in the process.

[pepperpete1]

We will get our day. There is an awakening going on... and we are leading it.

I stand with Paul. Did we think the revolution was against powers of lightness and purity? Not! It is against the entrenched powers of corruption. It is too bad that the party loyalists have broken the rules and laws to quiet the noise of war. Too bad the sheep of the party can't hear or won't hear the voice in the wilderness warning them of the loss of thier liberties and their soverign country. It is up to us to get out the message. (See my signature) We must continue to do whatever we can to get Ron Paul elected, to fill the Republican party with liberty minded members, to help elect those who will keep their oath to obey the constitution. To persuade the old guard to return to the Republican platform in actions and beliefs.

[Sally08]

I think it helps. If we don't win it is a valuable training exercise. An infinite amount of knowledge has been gained in the process.

I agree that the knowledge and experience are valuable. So is surviving a train wreck:(

However, there has been quite a cost if the "RP Republican" umbrella is now perceived as harmful to one's budding career.

[Dustancostine]

I think it helps. If we don't win it is a valuable training exercise. An infinite amount of knowledge has been gained in the process.

Exactly.

[rayzer]

I have made the argument that the delegate push is a waste of time in the past. But then I realized one VERY important thing.

This "push" is about TRANSFORMING the Republican party! It's not just about electing Dr. Paul President in 2008!

Everything we learn and do now to get in there and work within the party CANNOT be a waste of time!

"Revolutions are LONG TERM PROJECTS!!!" -Dr. Ron Paul

If nothing else, let's take over congress in 2010!!!

[pinkmandy]

AND THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!

Is pinkmandy concerned ABOUT RP at all?

Isn't this in direct DEFIANCE of what RP intended?

Um, why don't you ask me directly? I'm right here. Your last troll thread was quite enough for me. I know exactly what you are up to and have been up to. It's a joke. I play on your assanine threads because I find them funny...you sure do assume a lot.

If the GOP fails, it fails. WE will try to save it, as we have been doing. We aren't destroying the GOP, they are destroying themselves. They are a dying party, figuratively and literally speaking. They can stand with us and become stronger or keep fighting us, either way we will win in the long term. In the short term, the infighting will cost them the Presidency. And yes, that pleases me. Assume away. :D

[tekkierich]

This is a methodical process. I and the team around me in Maryland have learned so much over the past year. We will learn more durring our congressional race.

Win or not, we will be that much more ready for the next battle in 2010, 2012 and beyond. The better we do in this cycle, be it Ron Paul's numbers or in my case my congressional numbers, the more respect we will get the next time.

Slow and steady wins the race. As you quote from Ron Paul, Revolutions are long term projects.

I am in for the long term, are you?

[Sally08]

I stand with Paul.
Please show me a single place where "standing with Paul" included the recent actions of delegates.

Do you really think with his decades as a politician that he couldn't have foreseen *exactly* what is happening?

FYI - I have 10 years of archives where people have been warning of these same things. Pepperpete1, how come it took you so long to figure these issues out?

How did the Sixties generation become the "sheeple" you all put down?

Could it be because they have been working one or two jobs to pay for *your* educations? Were they at your sports/academic activities or were they out at rallies?

At what point do you sacrifice your family priorities for your political ones?

Isn't that the underlying problem? The jobs of the politician *are* their politics!


Did we think the revolution was against powers of lightness and purity? Not! It is against the entrenched powers of corruption. It is too bad that the party loyalists have broken the rules and laws to quiet the noise of war. Too bad the sheep of the party can't hear or won't hear the voice in the wilderness warning them of the loss of thier liberties and their soverign country. It is up to us to get out the message. (See my signature) We must continue to do whatever we can to get Ron Paul elected, to fill the Republican party with liberty minded members, to help elect those who will keep their oath to obey the constitution. To persuade the old guard to return to the Republican platform in actions and beliefs.

Given our country's history as to what happens to those who challenge those "entrenched powers of corrutpion", did RP ever intend to move into the White House with secret service for his entire extended family?

Or did he use his campaign to get a better platform (not by much!) to reach people with his beliefs?

[JS4Pat]

I am in for the long term, are you?

Perfect question to answer in my 1000th Ron Paul Forums Post!

YES - I'M IN FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES!!

[puppetmaster]

This is how we fight for America!! Press on folks, press on!!

[torchbearer]

We will get our day. There is an awakening going on... and we are leading it.

[torchbearer]

Perfect question to answer in my 1000th Ron Paul Forums Post!

YES - I'M IN FOR AS LONG AS IT TAKES!!

congrats on a 1000.

I have to conserve my post, you have to retire after 10,000.

Term limits.

[pinkmandy]

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? :rolleyes: Are you copying this thread, too?


It now requires login to even view the list of the threads. Is that to "hide" the strategies?

I already have complete copies of the entire thread, if it gets deleted.

I must say I was shocked to realize that the RP supporters who have impressed me so much, until just recently, have turned out to be no different than any other politicians who will do whatever they feel like to get what they want, based on various levels of rationalization.

Since no one seems to have discussed "coup" attempts with Dr. Paul, I have just sent an e-mail to him. I hope he gets it.

The purpose of my e-mail was to simply make Dr. Paul aware of what delegates may do "in his name" at the national convention vs. being surprised by a microphone in his face asking his opinion about some of his supporters having been ejected from the convention.

It is now up to Dr. Paul to determine what action he will take, if any.

Personally, I no longer care. I expressed my concerns and that's all anyone can do.

Time will tell whether my concerns were justified. If it turns out that my concerns were valid, the damage will have already been done.

Many of the people who have posted are not people I would ever invite into my home, so why would I care what they think, let alone "trust them" politically?

Ironically, I received an e-mail today to "Paulites" that was due to someone giving out my private e-mail address to others *without my permission*.

I indicated that since I didn't know which "type" of supporter, ethical or unethical, the person using RP's name as a reference was, I was not interested in donating to his campaign.

I no longer trust the RP movement to honor RP's values.

As a result, consider me an RP movement drop-out.

Good job spreading the message, everyone.

It would be more effective, if you agreed on which message you are spreading.

I won't be part of a "beat them at their own dirty politics" game. That is no change, whatsoever, from "politics as usual".

[torchbearer]

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? :rolleyes: Are you copying this thread, too?

Ew, I do love facts. Show me some more.
I see motive behind her flames. Do you see them too?

[pinkmandy]

Ew, I do love facts. Show me some more.
I see motive behind her flames. Do you see them too?


Oh, of course not. Whatever motive could that be? :D Sally is all about Dr. Paul. She's just looking out for him! Can't you tell? ;)

[Sally08]

Um, why don't you ask me directly? I'm right here. Your last troll thread was quite enough for me. I know exactly what you are up to and have been up to. It's a joke. I play on your assanine threads because I find them funny...you sure do assume a lot.

If the GOP fails, it fails. WE will try to save it, as we have been doing. We aren't destroying the GOP, they are destroying themselves. They are a dying party, figuratively and literally speaking. They can stand with us and become stronger or keep fighting us, either way we will win in the long term. In the short term, the infighting will cost them the Presidency. And yes, that pleases me. Assume away. :D

Funny how you're psychic about me. Truly bizarre.

Equally funny is how you attack me rather than discuss your actions in relation to RP's requested actions.

FYI - enough people here, including Bryan and other moderators, have my personal contact information and my background. So you come across looking dumb.

Question: Isn't the typical action of a *disinfo* agent to attack the person, rather than reply?

Does your reply mean you believe that the delegate actions that may destroy the GOP are a *positive* effect?

See what I mean about despising the GOP? What are *you* doing here? Why don't you go find another party that you don't despise?

Will any of these actions impact RP's *Congressional* reelection?

In the short term, it's people like you who have DESTROYED RP'S REPUTATION.

And my concern is does that END THE LONG TERM?

FYI - does anyone have any concerns about the fact that both parties are having "delegate issues"?

Do you think the changes that will be made will actually be in *our* favor?

They will be used to justify *more* loss of liberties "so such situations never happen again".

[Sally08]

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? :rolleyes: Are you copying this thread, too?

A simple "Save As" to my "Politics" folder on my hard drive for each page takes about 10 seconds each-

And I *definitely* save the threads that I start.

Since your posts are on a public forum, do you see anything wrong with that?

It also shows how many times that people change their stories-

[Sally08]

Ew, I do love facts. Show me some more.
I see motive behind her flames. Do you see them too?

I spend an hour drafting my OP and it's considered a "flame"?

Have you read any of the posts by others, about Georgia today, for instance?

Motive? Like don't betray RP?

[pepperpete1]

Sally08
RP Quotes in 3/6/08 Video:
The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers.

I will continue to make every effort to visit any state where the enthusiasm for liberty exists.

The campaign for freedom will continue in this new phase.

We are still in the early stages of bringing about the changes that this revolution is all about.

Let us hope that we can one day look back and say that this campaign was a significant first step that signaled a change in direction for our country. Our job now is to plan for the next phase.

My interpretation of RP's request was for his supporters to become involved within the GOP organization, to do the necessary footwork to become respected elected officials at the local precinct/county/state levels as the prerequisite preparation to become national officials in the future.

Those people who were working to become delegates were doing exactly what you put in your post as a quote from Ron Paul. How's that?

Where did you come up with my just now becoming aware of the issues? I am baby boomer if that relates to anything. And who said it is the "sixties" generation who are the sheep? There are alot of apathetic, lazy Americans of all ages out there that need to get woke up and on the band wagon. Let the message prevail.

As for Dr. Paul, with all his years of political experience being aware of what exactly is happening, I am sure he is, and therefore I feel he is not afraid of any of the "blowback" you refer to in your fishing expedition.


Given our country's history as to what happens to those who challenge those "entrenched powers of corrutpion", did RP ever intend to move into the White House with secret service for his entire extended family?

Or did he use his campaign to get a better platform (not by much!) to reach people with his beliefs?

IMO Ron Paul knew and knows the parameters and the possibility of what may happen to an honest president, and accepted the consequences when he decided to become a candidate.
As for him using his campaign to reach more people with his beliefs................
Hell yeah! The more the better. As president, he will reach even more.

[Sally08]

Sally- I thought you dropped out of the movement? :rolleyes: Are you copying this thread, too?

In my "real life", I no longer mention RP. In fact, several weeks ago, I deleted my published article about RP that had my "real name".

Does that qualify as "dropping out" of the *RP movement*?

But not the conservative movement-

[dude58677]

We have discussed this delegate thing for over a year, so this is not a spur of the moment protest.

[torchbearer]

We have discussed this delegate thing for over a year, so this is not a spur of the moment protest.

Sally needs to unplug from the matrix and get her red pill therapy. Too much cable news will do that to you.

What we are doing today, was set in motion 12 months ago. You weren't party to that discussion. I'm sorry.

But this is our revolution. You invited yourself to it. Remember that. So you can leave anytime you want.

(notice we were talking revolution in may07, on this very site before the nifty logo.)

[Sally08]

As for Dr. Paul, with all his years of political experience being aware of what exactly is happening, I am sure he is, and therefore I feel he is not afraid of any of the "blowback" you refer to in your fishing expedition.

I don't believe in a million years that RP could ever have *imagined* that people would be posting their plans to violate their state rules that bind them to vote for McCain in Round One.

Ethics be damned? Get elected to national delegate knowing the rules and then breaking them/your word? Would RP *ever* consider such a thing??


IMO Ron Paul knew and knows the parameters and the possibility of what may happen to an honest president, and accepted the consequences when he decided to become a candidate.
As for him using his campaign to reach more people with his beliefs................
Hell yeah! The more the better. As president, he will reach even more.

I don't believe RP ever truly had the goal of becoming President. He stated his "surprise" about having gotten so far too many times. Would he be "surprised" to get the GOP nomination, as well? Or dismayed?

[mudburn]

It wasn't the RP delegates that caused the problems. Following the rules isn't creating a problem. The problems were created by others. Does this harm RP? I don't think so. The "movement" would be harmed by inaction, by not following the rules. I disagree with your basic premise that Nevada and Maine (and whatever other episodes) have harmed RP or the GOP. The GOP is what it is and has acted accordingly. From what I've read, RP supporters didn't act wrongly. That doesn't mean their positions were well accepted, though.

Oh yeah, RP supporters have been wrongfully treated long before any of these conventions when some GOP members realized they were RP supporters. The "blowback" referenced isn't because of RP supporters actions but, rather, because of the attitudes and corruption within the GOP. That's where the problem is. Ignoring it and placing the blame elsewhere doesn't do any good.

I would recommend you don't believe the headlines about Ron Paul supporters "hijacking" conventions. Spin.

dp





Does your reply mean you believe that the delegate actions that may destroy the GOP are a *positive* effect?

In the short term, it's people like you who have DESTROYED RP'S REPUTATION.

FYI - does anyone have any concerns about the fact that both parties are having "delegate issues"?

[Sally08]

We have discussed this delegate thing for over a year, so this is not a spur of the moment protest.

Please explain so I don't make assumptions:)

I've been aware of "this delegate thing" for 4 or more months, so what is a "spur of the moment protest"?

Obviously, Nevada and Maine were well aware of the plans, as well. Very successful plans, huh? Not!

Didn't Steve Martin post about an actual "mole" in Maine, as well?

[dude58677]

Please explain so I don't make assumptions:)

I've been aware of "this delegate thing" for 4 or more months, so what is a "spur of the moment protest"?

Obviously, Nevada and Maine were well aware of the plans, as well. Very successful plans, huh? Not!

Didn't Steve Martin post about an actual "mole" in Maine, as well?

It was successful. It caught the establsihment of guard and it has been working in counties all across America(counties that haven't had State convention yet). We picked up more delegates at these convention then we did at the primaries.

As for Maine, we just have to be more discreet about being a RP supporter. It's no big deal.

[Sally08]

It wasn't the RP delegates that caused the problems. Following the rules isn't creating a problem. The problems were created by others. Does this harm RP? I don't think so. The "movement" would be harmed by inaction, by not following the rules. I disagree with your basic premise that Nevada and Maine (and whatever other episodes) have harmed RP or the GOP. The GOP is what it is and has acted accordingly. From what I've read, RP supporters didn't act wrongly. That doesn't mean their positions were well accepted, though.

Oh yeah, RP supporters have been wrongfully treated long before any of these conventions when some GOP members realized they were RP supporters. The "blowback" referenced isn't because of RP supporters actions but, rather, because of the attitudes and corruption within the GOP. That's where the problem is. Ignoring it and placing the blame elsewhere doesn't do any good.

I would recommend you don't believe the headlines about Ron Paul supporters "hijacking" conventions. Spin.

dp

It doesn't matter what I believe. What does matter is what the general public believes when you try to "spread the message" to them.

And if you already have to avoid any reference to "Ron Paul", exactly what happened to harm his good name?

I'm sorry, but many of the public posts on RPF and DP give very good reason for those monitoring the "RP people" to make their own plans to block us at every turn.

And how does that get anything accomplished towards RP's goals?

Very specific question:
What would you do if you were a national delegate from a state that bound you to vote for McCain for the first round (assuming McCain was not eliminated for health/legal/other reasons)?
1. Vote for McCain in the first round as you were elected to do
2. Refuse to vote at all
3. Defy your state's rules and vote for RP in the first round and likely get ejected from the convention with front-page headlines?

Please answer.

What damage do you think action #3 would cause?

[Sally08]

It was successful. It caught the establsihment of guard and it has been working in counties all across America(counties that haven't had State convention yet). We picked up more delegates at these convention then we did at the primaries.

As for Maine, we just have to be more discreet about being a RP supporter. It's no big deal.

I agree that I read about some early successes.

However, I suspect that the remaining states are going to be a much different story, because the element of surprise is *definitely* gone.

It's also bizarre that the RP supporters are the only ones who have to hide who they're for!

Is this really how we elect our President?

[Gin]

The Delegate push is waking up the masses...it's an insurgency...it's gonna hurt...It's working....I mean really...
if all the msm can come up with to try and discredit Dr. Paul, is by talking about how Ron Paul Repulicans are taking over the GOP...
and winning delegates simply from playing by the roles.....

I think we are doing what we need to do....

Like RP said...
What is the point in having a Convention if the Delegates are already selected?...
That tells me that he is happy with what we are doing..



I have made the argument that the delegate push is a waste of time in the past. But then I realized one VERY important thing.

This "push" is about TRANSFORMING the Republican party! It's not just about electing Dr. Paul President in 2008!

Everything we learn and do now to get in there and work within the party CANNOT be a waste of time!

"Revolutions are LONG TERM PROJECTS!!!" -Dr. Ron Paul

If nothing else, let's take over congress in 2010!!!

[torchbearer]

What damage will McCain, Hillery, Obama cause?

What kind of damage did throwing the tea in the harbor do to the reputation of those rascally rebels?
Gee, I wish the british had a better view of them.

Collectivist are in power. They will not give up that power. They will demonize you are your prodigy for not obeying them. Does it really matter? Either you are a obedient slave, are you are considered a demon. YOur choice.

Our country was founding on blood, murder, plot, treason.... why? because the person in charge wasn't going to give up his power.

You make a peaceful revolution unattainable, your make a violent one unavoidable.
A patriot must do whatever they can to reinstate the consitution. Even if it means throwing tea in the harbor. Get it?
Take your collectivism and greater good crap back to the neocons where it belongs.
This movement isn't for everyone.

People are starting to wake up, they are plugged into their fox news. Make some noise so that maybe one day they will hear you.

[dude58677]

I agree that I read about some early successes.

However, I suspect that the remaining states are going to be a much different story, because the element of surprise is *definitely* gone.

It's also bizarre that the RP supporters are the only ones who have to hide who they're for!

Is this really how we elect our President?


We'll just say we are John McCain supporters at the remaining conventions but instead we'll vote for Ron Paul. It's no big deal and I'm not worried about our reputation. All freedom fighters reputations were called lunatics since Plato.

[Sally08]

What damage will McCain, Hillery, Obama cause?

What kind of damage did throwing the tea in the harbor do to the reputation of those rascally rebels?
Gee, I wish the british had a better view of them.

Collectivist are in power. They will not give up that power. They will demonize you are your prodigy for not obeying them. Does it really matter? Either you are a obedient slave, are you are considered a demon. YOur choice.

Our country was founding on blood, murder, plot, treason.... why? because the person in charge wasn't going to give up his power.

You make a peaceful revolution unattainable, your make a violent one unavoidable.
A patriot must do whatever they can to reinstate the consitution. Even if it means throwing tea in the harbor. Get it?
Take your collectivism and greater good crap back to the neocons where it belongs.
This movement isn't for everyone.

People are starting to wake up, they are plugged into their fox news. Make some noise so that maybe one day they will hear you.

We're not talking about "tea in the harbor" this time. Would it be another Bhutto?

FWIW, I was taking the train into the city every day and politics was *not* being discussed. And if I mentioned RP, no one even knew who he was!

And what will make this "revolution" any more successful than the Sixties or the Ross Perot/United We Stand "movements"?

Any bets we're at war before the election, martial law will be implemented, and there won't be any election at all, so Bush can stay in power as dictator supreme?

Maybe all of these delegate issues in both parties are meant to be the *distraction* from what is actually going on behind the scenes?

[Sally08]

We'll just say we are John McCain supporters at the remaining conventions but instead we'll vote for Ron Paul. It's no big deal and I'm not worried about our reputation. All freedom fighters reputations were called lunatics since Plato.

Actually, you don't *vote* for Ron Paul at the state conventions, do you? Isn't the voting about which people will become national delegates?

Also, I could care less about *your* reputation.

I care what *your* actions do to RP's reputation and to anyone associated with him.

Very specific question:

What would you do if you were a national delegate from a state that bound you to vote for McCain for the first round (assuming McCain was not eliminated for health/legal/other reasons)?
1. Vote for McCain in the first round as you were elected to do
2. Refuse to vote at all
3. Defy your state's rules and vote for RP in the first round and likely get ejected from the convention with front-page headlines?

Please answer.

What damage do you think action #3 would cause?

[pepperpete1]

I ran for national delegate to the convention, but was not elected. Chalk it up to ignorance of the rules. (Not any longer)
Mitt Romney dropping out of the race allowed us to vote for 19 "uncommitted" delegates.
But let's say that I was elected as a McCain delegate. I would abstain.......legal to do.
Would not defy the state's rules as then my vote would not count. No point in doing so.

Now I have some questions for you.
Please answer.

1. Are you a national delegate for your state?

2. Have you even run as a delegate?

3. How about a precinct captain for the campaign?

4. Have you been out in the public trying to ethically educate them as to what the situation is with their current government?

5. Are you personally reminding people that Dr. Ron Paul is still a candidate?

Whether there is blowback from RP getting the GOP nomination or not is irrelevant. If there is we deal with it. Like we have dealt with the GOP's out and out breaking of party rules and state statutes.
We are following the rules and "game plan" of the RNC, and each individual state.
Definitely NOT like the LAGOP who's chairman took it upon himself to extend the qualifying deadline. Did not put out the call to the primary as dictated by the RNC rules, put names of persons as delegates on McCain's slate without their permission, and then at the convention even admitted they broke the rules and it is placed on the record.

Keep on fishing.

[MozoVote]

I for one am enjoying every day of new reports from the state conventions - exposing the party sheep for what they are, how low a priority constitutional freedoms have become, and how important it is to "stick together". Gag!

When someone sneaks out a videotape, I see enthusiastic new blood in the Party, and a bunch of silent frowning bluehairs upset at the "interlopers" who are keeping them from their afternoon plans.

I plan to stay on RP forums through 2009 and keep reading about the party elections, as RP folks get elected to committees and county chairman's positions. It's gonna happen. The party has to change from the inside, or it will wither away.

[MozoVote]

Double post. Sorry. :)

Think about this. We have succeeded in placing complete political greenhorns into national delegate positions. THAT DOES NOT HAPPEN in normal elections. The party bigwigs and loyalists "are supposed" to get these spots!

There may even be some state executives grudingly telling someone that donated $100,000 to the party, that there were not enough open delegate seats because "The Ron Paul people took too many of them".

Every delegate spot we can snag adds to this effect.

[Gin]

So we're just supposed to act like good little sheep and lay down and go back to sleep? Let the establishment do as it pleases???

WRONG! I'm not going to do that...

I want my children and grand children to live in a better world.....not one full of corruption and dictatorship...

This is the FREE WORLD.... that is why the Europeans came over here in the first place....




We're not talking about "tea in the harbor" this time. Would it be another Bhutto?

FWIW, I was taking the train into the city every day and politics was *not* being discussed. And if I mentioned RP, no one even knew who he was!

And what will make this "revolution" any more successful than the Sixties or the Ross Perot/United We Stand "movements"?

Any bets we're at war before the election, martial law will be implemented, and there won't be any election at all, so Bush can stay in power as dictator supreme?

Maybe all of these delegate issues in both parties are meant to be the *distraction* from what is actually going on behind the scenes?

[crazyfacedjenkins]

It doesn't matter what I believe. What does matter is what the general public believes when you try to "spread the message" to them.

And if you already have to avoid any reference to "Ron Paul", exactly what happened to harm his good name?

I'm sorry, but many of the public posts on RPF and DP give very good reason for those monitoring the "RP people" to make their own plans to block us at every turn.

And how does that get anything accomplished towards RP's goals?

Very specific question:
What would you do if you were a national delegate from a state that bound you to vote for McCain for the first round (assuming McCain was not eliminated for health/legal/other reasons)?
1. Vote for McCain in the first round as you were elected to do
2. Refuse to vote at all
3. Defy your state's rules and vote for RP in the first round and likely get ejected from the convention with front-page headlines?

Please answer.

What damage do you think action #3 would cause?

I would hope everyone here would select #3. Otherwise they are just a fucking pussy. By the way, pussies get fucked by dicks.

[LibertyIn08]

I would hope everyone here would select #3. Otherwise they are just a fucking pussy. By the way, pussies get fucked by dicks.

And people wonder why we're not respected as a political movement.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

And people wonder why we're not respected as a political movement.

I think it has less to do with my statement and more to do with all of us being on a fucking web forum bitching and not actually living real life. (Including myself on this one as well).

[torchbearer]

And people wonder why we're not respected as a political movement.

Yes, it because of random post on forums. :rolleyes:

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Yes, it because of random post on forums. :rolleyes:

My point exactly. By the way, as far as I know, you are one of the only people around here (this forum) actually doing anything. Keep up the good work!

[torchbearer]

My point exactly. By the way, as far as I know, you are one of the only people around here (this forum) actually doing anything. Keep up the good work!

//

[RPLiberty1]

I have had success in my county last county meeting by explaining how the party leadership are turning the Eleventh Commandment on it's ear. The 11th doesn't apply to conservatives returning the party to it's roots. It does apply to the McCain people and party leadership forcing the party to the left.

http://www.enterstageright.com/archive/articles/0402/0402eleventhcommandment.htm

The "Eleventh Commandment"
By David C. Wilcox
web posted April 8, 2002
During Ronald Reagan's 1966 campaign for governor of California, Republicans established the so-called Eleventh Commandment: "Thou shalt not speak ill of any fellow Republican."
It was proposed by State Republican Chairman Gaylord Parkinson to help prevent a repeat of the liberal Republican assault on Barry Goldwater that laid the foundation for Goldwater's trouncing in the 1964 presidential election. Just as Nelson Rockefeller and his East Coast cronies had branded Goldwater as an "extremist" who was unfit to hold office, so candidate George Christopher and California's liberal Republicans were leveling similar personal attacks on Reagan. Party liberals eventually followed Parkinson's advice, and the rest is history.
Fast forward to March 5, 2002.
While it wasn't the only factor, failure to observe the Eleventh Commandment undoubtedly played a role in the unprecedented implosion of Richard Riordan's gubernatorial campaign in California. It was déjà vu for Republican veterans when, for example, in the death throes of his failed campaign, Riordan invoked the ghosts of Rockefeller and Christopher by branding Bill Simon as an "extremist." Following suit, Gray Davis invoked the ghosts of Lyndon Johnson and Pat Brown by repeating Riordan's charge.
Although Sheriff Lee Baca (a registered Republican) won in a non-partisan election landslide, about a third of the Republican vote was against him -- a huge number of defections by anyone's standards. As with Riordan, his serial violations of the Eleventh Commandment played a role.
Too frequently for their fellow Republicans' tastes, both Riordan and Baca have endorsed, and (in Riordan's case) even financed, Democrats running against their Republican colleagues. What, after all, would constitute a greater violation of the Eleventh Commandment than endorsing a fellow Republican's opponent? How much more ill can one speak of a Republican than saying a Democrat is preferable?
Riordan's conservative "teammates" -- roughly two thirds of the Republicans who voted on March 5th -- answered these questions by sending him to the bench in the March Primary. If Baca ever chooses to run for a partisan office as a Republican, it's likely he'll take a seat next to the former Los Angeles mayor.
It's not that conservatives won't get behind a "moderate." On the contrary, many conservatives joined the Riordan bandwagon early on to maximize the chances of defeating Gray Davis. But, there was always an undercurrent warning that Riordan's endorsement and contribution record left his Republican credentials suspect. The same was true of Baca.
With the declining fortunes of the California Republican Party, like Riordan and Baca, many elected Republican officials have gone out of their way to curry favor of Democrats. Displaying no sense of Party loyalty, numerous Republican City Council members, for example, often contribute money and endorsements to help Democrats. The March 2002 Primary should serve as a wakeup call, strongly suggesting that they should give teamwork a chance rather than thinking only of themselves.
To defend themselves, such "Republicans" often attempt to turn the Eleventh Commandment on its ear. They charge any Republican who dares criticize them for supporting a Democrat with an Eleventh Commandment transgression.
Is this expected to pass as rational thought?
Sometimes they claim that they "vote for the person, not the party," or they are independent minded, or they are original thinkers. Horse feathers!
Politicians never register with a political party without calculating the value in doing so. The honest thing for an elected official who wants to pick and choose candidates from both Republican and Democrat slates would be to register with no party specified.
Many voters indeed find some of their ideas in both parties and, as a consequence, split their ballots between Democrats and Republicans. They do so in the privacy of the voting booth, and it's their right to do so. They're doing their civic duty to the best of their ability. But, they are not using the prestige of an elected office to influence large numbers of voters at the expense of their colleagues.
Most serious politicians realize that choosing no political party is a non-starter that would severely restrict their chances of being elected to higher office. Belonging to either of the major political parties is a huge advantage in seeking partisan office, because minor parties rarely elect major candidates.
Thus, Republican loyalists are justified in expecting elected officials either to support their Party's candidates or to simply remain silent. An elected Republican who repeatedly violates the Eleventh Commandment by publicly endorsing a Democrat over a fellow Party member is pursuing a self-destructive course. As the March 2002 Primary results show, Golden State Republican voters will eventually impose the Golden Rule.

[torchbearer]

//

Can't talk about fight club. :o

[Ninja Homer]

I haven't bothered reading this whole thread. I was involved in the first one, and it was a complete waste of time. However, I think all Sally's concerns are probably answered in her first post of this thread:

"RP Quotes in 3/6/08 Video:
The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries..."

Ron Paul says what he means and means what he says, so quit trying to skew what he says like a Democrat trying to skew the founding father's words of the Constitution in order to make their agenda seem legal. Enough said.

[Sally08]

I haven't bothered reading this whole thread. I was involved in the first one, and it was a complete waste of time. However, I think all Sally's concerns are probably answered in her first post of this thread:

"RP Quotes in 3/6/08 Video:
The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries..."

Ron Paul says what he means and means what he says, so quit trying to skew what he says like a Democrat trying to skew the founding father's words of the Constitution in order to make their agenda seem legal. Enough said.

Let me get this straight-

Does RP's "all" include:

1. Lying (answering as a McCain supporter)
2. Cheating
3. Stealing (as in vote fraud?)
4. Breaking/defying the rules under which you were elected at the RNC
5. Making "back room deals"
6. Paying bribes for votes
7. Negative campaigning using RP's name

I don't think so.

Sounds like Clinton's "is" to me.

And RP's (public posting) supporters are different than the "status quo" how, exactly?

Yet another post indicating that RP's "umbrella" includes many unethical people, which is now causing problems for the ethical supporters, particularly when posts on both RPF and DP have been quoted as *sources* for articles in the past day or two.

Take a look at the "impressive" public posts on the thread (note that views are over 3500 with 165 posts) referenced:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=132901

Talk about "aiding the enemy"-

[Aratus]

curiously enough, the maine convention blowback flap cuts both ways.

ron paul at the university of phoenix in a question and answer session

did opinion obama is to certain to be in the whitehouse. he didn't quite

say where, when, how or in what capacity, however the inference was

IF obama easily bests hillary by FIVE superdeleagates, he traipses along

to the dust-up with john mccain! evidently ron paul expects obama to win

the electorial college near to even split, that seems to be in the wind. also at

the maine convention, it was learned that our own SteveMartin is a good

ol' fashioned "my man Blaine" ward healer voting block! when he was certain,

the Ron Paul voting block went with him totally. read the postings!!! he delivered!




his efforts got noticed by the "big boys" ... even though they segregated the

ron paul signs and chants to the back of the hall for the most part. unlike

mister fink and mister cohen who got ejected from the hall grandly! SteveMartin

was tolerated, respected, and then by his timing, ignored by the chair happily!

with my own ex-gov Mitt Romney delivering his speech and his troops to what

g.w bush and mccain think to be a fall juggernaut... i say go figure! do the math!

them danglin' chads and all those 269 verses 269 echoes of the florida count? (hint!)

we have an extremely tight fall election as a garnish on this inconclusive "them dems" bout!

[Aratus]

pinkmandy... here is an example of my semi-readable "Aratus"... its going to
to take me several weeks to assimilate all that went on at the maine
convention! i know bush was lookin' happy on today's TODAY show... plenty
of SteveMartin's planking went elsewhere, and not on the maine platform!
not to slight anyone else, who was there... its just that as CGmike and Steve
give us more information happily and quietly, tactics in a nice way shall be
tweaked, and streamlined. kennebunkport's enclave was in the Walker family for
a 100 years, folks! so do not despair if ALL the "big guns" were out... including MITT!

[Aratus]

the herald article can be read several ways...
http://news.bostonherald.com/news/national/politics/2008/view.bg?articleid=1091566&srvc=home&position=recent

[soapmistress]

Onward!!!

We are a million strong. That's no small cookie!

Don't you think that after 30 frickin' years of being shut down by both parties, RP knows of this corruption and its depths? Of course. IMO, we are being nudged out of the nest and forced to fly with our own wings. Anything less and we would be weak, roll over and take it! Roll over your delegates to someone else! Roll over *OR* learn firsthand, take some hits in the school of hard knocks.

They only make us stronger. At every turn, they make us stronger.

Blowback with a cherry on top.

To hold back and worry about spending years and years garnering the respect of people who questionably may or may not deserve ours is a horrendous waste of time. We have to move on all levels simultaneously.

Look what happens when we play nice... Now the state of MO is challenging 300 delegates and picking them off by hand, regardless of votes.

Does anyone really believe that Ron Paul is worried about us tarnishing his political career? I have seen nothing to indicate such a thing. If he directly spoke to indicate a feeling of displeasure I would expect everyone to honor that.

But you know, when he says that if they don't ask him to speak at the convention he will be speaking somewhere nearby instead... I imagine all kinds of things happening and none of those possibilities frighten me. So What. We might just end up on the news for once.

[Ninja Homer]

Given the outcomes of the recent Nevada and Maine state-level conventions, as they stand today, has the grass roots effort to honor RP's request in his 3/8 video succeeded or failed in meeting RP's intentions?

RP Quotes in 3/6/08 Video:
"The presidential campaign will soon wind down, but we do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers."

My interpretation of RP's request was for his supporters to become involved within the GOP organization, to do the necessary footwork to become respected elected officials at the local precinct/county/state levels as the prerequisite preparation to become national officials in the future.

Have we failed to honor his request of us?

Your interpretation of Ron Paul's request is blatantly wrong.

[klamath]

The actions of some RP supporters maybe hurting the movement in the short term but in the long term the noise of the movement is a good thing.
Most conservative Republicans are choking back their distaste of McCain and supporting the party leader. If that left leaning party leader takes them down too defeat this fall there will be so much recrimination and soul searching on what went wrong the neocons will be hiding under any rock they can find. Everyone will be asking how the Republican party lost both the whitehouse and the congress.
I look back and think how I supported Bush over Buccanan because I thought Bush could win and Bucannan could not. Well Bush won alright but it is me that has buyers remorse. Even though I vilified Bucannan at the time because of his pitchhfork speach that I though was too communistic sounding I really really wish I had voted Bucannan even with his over isolationist ideas.

[Sally08]

Your interpretation of Ron Paul's request is blatantly wrong.

Does that mean that the questions I asked about what "all" means that you *didn't answer* are blatantly *right*?

If RP says what he means and means what he says, then why are "interpretation" and "parsing" needed?

Who determines which "interpretation" RP meant when the videos were totally planned? Dan McCarthy? Raul Paul?

There seem to be a lot of "psychic supporters" these days.

[pepperpete1]

Still waiting.


I ran for national delegate to the convention, but was not elected. Chalk it up to ignorance of the rules. (Not any longer)
Mitt Romney dropping out of the race allowed us to vote for 19 "uncommitted" delegates.
But let's say that I was elected as a McCain delegate. I would abstain.......legal to do.
Would not defy the state's rules as then my vote would not count. No point in doing so.

Now I have some questions for you.
Please answer.

1. Are you a national delegate for your state?

2. Have you even run as a delegate?

3. How about a precinct captain for the campaign?

4. Have you been out in the public trying to ethically educate them as to what the situation is with their current government?

5. Are you personally reminding people that Dr. Ron Paul is still a candidate?

Whether there is blowback from RP getting the GOP nomination or not is irrelevant. If there is we deal with it. Like we have dealt with the GOP's out and out breaking of party rules and state statutes.
We are following the rules and "game plan" of the RNC, and each individual state.
Definitely NOT like the LAGOP who's chairman took it upon himself to extend the qualifying deadline. Did not put out the call to the primary as dictated by the RNC rules, put names of persons as delegates on McCain's slate without their permission, and then at the convention even admitted they broke the rules and it is placed on the record.

Keep on fishing.

[Sally08]

The actions of some RP supporters maybe hurting the movement in the short term but in the long term the noise of the movement is a good thing.
Most conservative Republicans are choking back their distaste of McCain and supporting the party leader. If that left leaning party leader takes them down too defeat this fall there will be so much recrimination and soul searching on what went wrong the neocons will be hiding under any rock they can find. Everyone will be asking how the Republican party lost both the whitehouse and the congress.
I look back and think how I supported Bush over Buccanan because I thought Bush could win and Bucannan could not. Well Bush won alright but it is me that has buyers remorse. Even though I vilified Bucannan at the time because of his pitchhfork speach that I though was too communistic sounding I really really wish I had voted Bucannan even with his over isolationist ideas.

Let's say I agree with everything you say (I bet the Dems are laughing about this destruction of the GOP *from within*).

What would a landslide victory for the Democrats do? What will happen in the next 4 years with no checks and balances (again, assuming that there isn't a national crisis with martial law implemented *before* the election)?

And, again, given the delegate issues in both parties, d'ya think the rules might change, so that we have even *less* freedoms?

Question: Is that what RP has worked so hard for decades and on the campaign trail this election cycle, to have supporters in *his* name destroy his reputation *and* the GOP for the history books?

Do you think that "the actions of some RP supporters" (those who are routinely highlighted by the MSM media) might harm RP's reelection for Congress and/or his ability as Congressman to get *anything* accomplished?

[Ninja Homer]

Does that mean that the questions I asked about what "all" means that you *didn't answer* are blatantly *right*?

If RP says what he means and means what he says, then why are "interpretation" and "parsing" needed?

Who determines which "interpretation" RP meant when the videos were totally planned? Dan McCarthy? Raul Paul?

There seem to be a lot of "psychic supporters" these days.

Redirect much?

How exactly do you come to the conclusion that:

"We do still encourage all effort to gain the maximum number of votes and delegates in all the remaining primaries and to continue the caucus process that's ongoing in the other states by loyal volunteers."

Equals:

"RP's request was for his supporters to become involved within the GOP organization, to do the necessary footwork to become respected elected officials at the local precinct/county/state levels as the prerequisite preparation to become national officials in the future."

[NCGOPer_for_Paul]

Sally08,

Even if Ron Paul people get to St. Paul as "McCain delegates", isn't it worth it to have influence on platform debate?

Look, 25-50% of the grassroots of the GOP cannot stand McCain. The party IS killing itself from within.

McCain garnering less than 40% of the popular vote, and losing almost every state would cause the GOP to seek a new way. He is no better than the two socialists on the Dem side.

[acptulsa]

Let's say I agree with everything you say (I bet the Dems are laughing about this destruction of the GOP *from within*).

What would a landslide victory for the Democrats do? What will happen in the next 4 years with no checks and balances (again, assuming that there isn't a national crisis with martial law implemented *before* the election)?

And, again, given the delegate issues in both parties, d'ya think the rules might change, so that we have even *less* freedoms?

Question: Is that what RP has worked so hard for decades and on the campaign trail this election cycle, to have supporters in *his* name destroy his reputation *and* the GOP for the history books?

Do you think that "the actions of some RP supporters" (those who are routinely highlighted by the MSM media) might harm RP's reelection for Congress and/or his ability as Congressman to get *anything* accomplished?

What has happened in the last two years with no checks and balances? Will the Democrats be worse?

Since when have the Democrats been harder on our civil liberties than the neocons? Haven't they slightly ameliorated the effects of the PATRIOT Act?

Seems to me Dr. Paul's reputation is confirmed. We aren't doing anything to the G.O.P.'s reputation but letting people know that a few of it's members care about something besides their fat wallets? Unless we accomplish more than we have, we won't rate a footnote in the history books, while Dubya will have chapters written about the damage done...

Can Dr. Paul get anything done in Congress now? How often has the House vote been 413-1, 425-1 and etc?

As long as Ron Paul is considered the laughable Dr. No because he won't jump on the gravy train and eat his lobbyist-supplied lobster standing up with the rest of the Congress, he is a standout of his own free will and that's why we're here. And the worse things get, the more of us there will be. We don't call ourselves a revolution for nothing!

If you're going to have an omelet, you have to break a few eggs. And the more rotten eggs we break, the more I like it.

[LibertyIn08]

Yes, it because of random post on forums. :rolleyes:

This attitude expressed is not confined to the forums.

There is a difference between being excited and between being negatively disruptive. We can make an impact without alienating everyone else in the party simply due to our behaviour.

[acptulsa]

I guess it comes down to how you answer two questions:

Is McCain any improvement at all in any way over the Democrats with whom he works so closely?

Is it more important to "play ball" with the G.O.P. or to rock the boat and help change its direction before we get any more Dubyas?

From those two attitudes comes the key to whether you'll think our pusuit of delegates is good or bad.

[Aratus]

please,please think it thru... jeb bush in 2012...

anything done today, this day... impacts 2012!

[LibertyIn08]

I guess it comes down to how you answer two questions:

Is McCain any improvement at all in any way over the Democrats with whom he works so closely?

Is it more important to "play ball" with the G.O.P. or to rock the boat and help change its direction before we get any more Dubyas?

From those two attitudes comes the key to whether you'll think our pusuit of delegates is good or bad.

I'm talking more about people insulting other members of the GOP with incendiary language, not so much our method of delegate allocation.

[Broadlighter]

Sally,

How do you make nice with someone who ardently believes that lying and cheating to maintain status quo is justifiable? Did you not read or hear Ron Paul's address to Congress about Neo-Conservatism?

Here it is: http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=630 (http://www.ronpaullibrary.org/document.php?id=630)

This fight is between those who want liberty and honesty in government and those who don't. The hearts and minds we are trying to win over are neither us nor the enemy, they are those who are loyal to the GOP, who don't have all of the facts and haven't the time or inclination to delve deeply into them.

The longer we stay in this fight, the more we expose the corruption the Neo-cons seem to embrace as standard operating procedure.

And Ron Paul has said many times, that this Revolution is not about him, it's about us. Let the fight happen and the chips fall where they may.

[Sally08]

How do you make nice with someone who ardently believes that lying and cheating to maintain status quo is justifiable?

This fight is between those who want liberty and honesty in government and those who don't..

Either you actually support my concerns about "lying and cheating" not being "a good way" to promote "honesty in government" or you are part of the group of "RP Supporters in Name Only" that is no *different* than the status quo!

Is that what this "movement" has come down to?

How can I trust what *any* "Ron Paul Republican" says now? Which "kind" of "Ron Paul Delegate" did I vote for in my primary?

Can you see how serious a problem has developed, if I have respected Ron Paul for the past 8+ years, but now no longer trust his followers?

[belian78]

Either you actually support my concerns about "lying and cheating" not being "a good way" to promote "honesty in government" or you are part of the group of "RP Supporters in Name Only" that is no *different* than the status quo!

Is that what this "movement" has come down to?

How can I trust what *any* "Ron Paul Republican" says now? Which "kind" of "Ron Paul Delegate" did I vote for in my primary?

Can you see how serious a problem has developed, if I have respected Ron Paul for the past 8+ years, but now no longer trust his followers?

what!?

lady, either your a troll, or your delusional.

is the whole crux of this rant about you thinking that RP delegates lie and cheat? if so, you couldnt be farther from the truth.

[LibertyIn08]

what!?

lady, either your a troll, or your delusional.

is the whole crux of this rant about you thinking that RP delegates lie and cheat? if so, you couldnt be farther from the truth.

I believe she's more worried about the ones that do, rather than all of them doing said actions.

Although I do believe she is painting with a rather wide brush...

[dannno]

OP, this is a necessary fight. The media will paint all of our actions as childish or otherwise, whatever they can get away with and you will not like it. Learn to live with it. The media is part of this fight, too.

According to what I've seen, everything in NV was fair and we were playing by the rules. The situation was painted differently by the media and by the leaders of the GOP because they are our enemies.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

I don't know what fantasy land the OP lives in, but nobody even knows who the fuck Ron Paul is. If our delegates get to the national convention and get him nominated, whether it be through abiding by the rules or making new rules as they go, most of America won't even know what happened or give a shit. Win-Win as far as I'm concerned.

[Broadlighter]

Either you actually support my concerns about "lying and cheating" not being "a good way" to promote "honesty in government" or you are part of the group of "RP Supporters in Name Only" that is no *different* than the status quo!

Is that what this "movement" has come down to?

How can I trust what *any* "Ron Paul Republican" says now? Which "kind" of "Ron Paul Delegate" did I vote for in my primary?

Can you see how serious a problem has developed, if I have respected Ron Paul for the past 8+ years, but now no longer trust his followers?

Sally, your thoughts make me think you are suffering somewhat from Stockholm Syndrome. By trying to make nice with the Neo-Cons for the sake of being civil, you enable their continual psychotic behavior. The Neo-Cons have made it clear that they will not treat Ron Paul Republicans with any degree of civility. Their ideology doesn't value honesty and integrity. They value raw power and they command obedience to their imperialism.

There comes a point when those holding the power strings ignore the rules they had once agreed to in order to maintain their position. They have, by defintion, become outlaws.

This is a fight and there's goiing to be a few bloody noses. Get used to it. Victory is not going to come to those who win the battles. It will come to those who are still willing to fight even after the worst of defeats.

[Broadlighter]

One more point, Sally, our fight is not against Republicans or Republican voters. Our fight is with the Council on Foreign Relations. It's about individualism versus collectivism, liberty versus tyranny.

No matter what it looks like to you on the surface, this is what is really going on.

Tyrants don't give up power, you have to take it away from them.

[MMolloy]

Let me get this straight-

Does RP's "all" include:

1. Lying (answering as a McCain supporter)
2. Cheating
3. Stealing (as in vote fraud?)
4. Breaking/defying the rules under which you were elected at the RNC
5. Making "back room deals"
6. Paying bribes for votes
7. Negative campaigning using RP's name

I don't think so.

Sounds like Clinton's "is" to me.

And RP's (public posting) supporters are different than the "status quo" how, exactly?

Yet another post indicating that RP's "umbrella" includes many unethical people, which is now causing problems for the ethical supporters, particularly when posts on both RPF and DP have been quoted as *sources* for articles in the past day or two.

Take a look at the "impressive" public posts on the thread (note that views are over 3500 with 165 posts) referenced:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=132901

Talk about "aiding the enemy"-


Wow... I've heard way more badmouthing of RP supporters from Sally in this post then I've heard from all the people I know PERSONALLY combined. It seems to me that you're the only one suggesting that we use these tactics because


Any bets we're at war before the election, martial law will be implemented, and there won't be any election at all, so Bush can stay in power as dictator supreme?

Maybe all of these delegate issues in both parties are meant to be the *distraction* from what is actually going on behind the scenes?

OR maybe YOU'RE the "DISTRACTION"


I will be in MN as an Alternate Delegate from PA.
I have had my Ron Paul button on wherever I go for over 6 months now... so everyone knows where I'm coming from. I haven't been in stealth mode.

Amen to the proceeding two posts... KEEP FIGHTING

[Sally08]

One more point, Sally, our fight is not against Republicans or Republican voters. Our fight is with the Council on Foreign Relations. It's about individualism versus collectivism, liberty versus tyranny.

No matter what it looks like to you on the surface, this is what is really going on.

Tyrants don't give up power, you have to take it away from them.

I sent this link to the Pauls as support for my concerns:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1411115&postcount=12

Shall I create a list of links to posts/threads on both RPF and DP that discuss a "coup" against the *GOP* and apparent hatred for the GOP?

Warranted or not, those posts are *not* what RP wished in terms of "working within the GOP party system".

And those types of posts with hundreds of supportive reply posts are what I am seeing on both RPF and DP.

That means the MSM and GOP are seeing them, as well.

Are we surprised, then, to see the GOP organizing to successfully block even platform reforms?

As an RP supporter, I see those posts with several bordering on "terrorist plots" and have to "wonder".

Just imagine the impact for first time visitors. MSM statements validated?

[acptulsa]

Shall I create a list of links to posts/threads on both RPF and DP that discuss a "coup" against the *GOP* and apparent hatred for the GOP?

Warranted or not, those posts are *not* what RP wished in terms of "working within the GOP party system".

And those types of posts with hundreds of supportive reply posts are what I am seeing on both RPF and DP.

That means the MSM and GOP are seeing them, as well.

Are we surprised, then, to see the GOP organizing to successfully block even platform reforms?

As an RP supporter, I see those posts with several bordering on "terrorist plots" and have to "wonder".

Just imagine the impact for first time visitors. MSM statements validated?

How much does Dr. Paul "work within the G.O.P. party system." Quite a bit, yes, but does he vote in lockstep with the neocons? As for posts indicating hatred of the G.O.P., much of what I've seen is hatred of what the G.O.P. has become, not the party itself. Did it ever occur to you that we are actually tapping a vein of discontent? And though I have resisted and tried to discourage the host of 9/11 posts that, for better and worse, have flooded this forum, the fact is that many of those threads 1) demonstrated that we are not of one mind on this, 2) were intelligent enough in spots to make even the most unimaginative scoffer scratch his or her head if they paid enough attention, and 3) really have nothing to do with the delegate push.

Maybe you're right. Maybe if we weren't such a herd of cats, we could have gotten farther. But on the other hand, maybe we wouldn't have because maybe we'd be going along with the herd instead.

Yeah, we could probably stand to do better in some respects. But I don't for a second believe fighting for what's right any way we can is the way to alienate the G.O.P. rank and file. I think that's the way to work yourself into a leadership position in the G.O.P. They have never tended to follow those who give up.

[Sally08]

I believe she's more worried about the ones that do, rather than all of them doing said actions.

Although I do believe she is painting with a rather wide brush...

Does that mean you believe that some lie and cheat, as well? I apologize if the "brush is too wide" (I did attempt to qualify it with "posters"-)

However, neither I nor any other reader has any means to determine what "percentage" of the total number of RP supporters agree with those posts.

Obviously, the posters take minimal personal responsibility/accountability for the impact of their *posts* and their actions on other people, including RP, and our country as a whole.

They sure don't sound like any change at all from "politics as usual". Just a different group wanting to be "in power".

My threads have been primarily for the *lurkers*, in the hope that some are concerned for similar reasons, particularly if their own political credibility has already been harmed.

It's obvious that the posters have their own "religion" and it is one that is wholly unacceptable to me.

So what actions are appropriate for *me* to take, then?

I do know that there have been more posts in the last week or two questioning whether a change in strategy is required, particularly to use "conservative values" vs. "Ron Paul values".

[torchbearer]

My mentor in counseling once told me, "Don't speak to the condition".

A lil' advice for those who are participating in the dementia.
Sally needs something to reply to in order to continue her condition.

If you want to continue having fun at her expense, I guess that is ok.
If anyone thinks there will ever be anything you could ever say that will register inside Sally's brain cell, you are mistaken.

I just have this vision of seekliberty's 500 page long thread of useless crap.
All you have to do is stop talking to the condition. (I know its hard.)

If you need help in doing this because you just can't resist. There is an ignore function on this forum that works great. I'll be happy to help you figure out how to use it.

[Sally08]

How much does Dr. Paul "work within the G.O.P. party system." Quite a bit, yes, but does he vote in lockstep with the neocons?


RP votes in a way consistent with his known beliefs in the Constitutional foundation for our country. How the neocons vote is obviously totally irrelevant to him.

As a GOP member/Congressman, RP definitely works within the GOP party system. If he stepped out of that party, he would not maintain his Congressional seat, which he prioritized over the Presidential campaign.


As for posts indicating hatred of the G.O.P., much of what I've seen is hatred of what the G.O.P. has become, not the party itself. Did it ever occur to you that we are actually tapping a vein of discontent?

Does that rationale for the publicly posted *hatred* (that you posted you have "seen", as well) matter?

That vein of discontent has been there for decades.

The bottom line is whether there will be any more impact this time around. Based on the posts I've seen that try to *beat the person down* vs. "spread the message so that it is accepted", I will be surprised if there's any "movement" left by the general election.

NOTE: However, I also suspect that individuals already involved in the local political parties may well stay involved but in a way where other people's actions won't harm their own situations.


And though I have resisted and tried to discourage the host of 9/11 posts that, for better and worse, have flooded this forum, the fact is that many of those threads 1) demonstrated that we are not of one mind on this, 2) were intelligent enough in spots to make even the most unimaginative scoffer scratch his or her head if they paid enough attention, and 3) really have nothing to do with the delegate push.

How about changing your statement to be an anology for my concerns, if *you* paid enough attention to what I am saying that has *everything* to do with the delegate push?


Maybe you're right. Maybe if we weren't such a herd of cats, we could have gotten farther. But on the other hand, maybe we wouldn't have because maybe we'd be going along with the herd instead.

Where did I say a thing about having "gotten farther"? And the situation is not either/or - there are at least 3 situations:
1. Go along with the herd/do nothing
2. Get involved and earn personal respect to make changes
3. Get involved by lying and cheating, sending 8000 e-mails to a single person, chase columnists on camera, post obscene messages, send illiterate messages to well-known columnists and/or illiterate posts on their news media blogs that may or may not get moderated/deleted.

I fail to see how #3 doesn't qualify as troll behavior to *sabotage* the RP movement, not help it.


Yeah, we could probably stand to do better in some respects. But I don't for a second believe fighting for what's right any way we can is the way to alienate the G.O.P. rank and file.

So, fighting for what's "right" with the wrong actions in #3 above ("any way we can") qualifies as a "win"? I don't think so.


I think that's the way to work yourself into a leadership position in the G.O.P. They have never tended to follow those who give up.

Have you ever held a job in the corporate world? Your boss would no more "reward" your behavior to replace him than the GOP leaders will "reward" your behavior to replace them.

Both organizations will simply show you the door, as we have already seen.

And isn't that exactly the point I'm trying to make?

[Sally08]

My mentor in counseling once told me, "Don't speak to the condition".

A lil' advice for those who are participating in the dementia.
Sally needs something to reply to in order to continue her condition.

If you want to continue having fun at her expense, I guess that is ok.
If anyone thinks there will ever be anything you could ever say that will register inside Sally's brain cell, you are mistaken.

I just have this vision of seekliberty's 500 page long thread of useless crap.
All you have to do is stop talking to the condition. (I know its hard.)

If you need help in doing this because you just can't resist. There is an ignore function on this forum that works great. I'll be happy to help you figure out how to use it.

And as I already posted, I'm speaking to the *lurkers* because, just as obviously, I can't say anything that will register inside the brain cells of those doing the damage.

Now, I ask you to answer my question.

This question is my "line in the sand" about your ethical system.

ASSUME NO UNBINDING ACTIONS OCCUR:

If you personally were a national delegate elected by your state, and your state rules are that national delegates are bound to vote for McCain *for the first round*,

what would you do?
1. Vote for McCain as you were elected to do
2. Refuse to vote at all in the first round
3. Defy your state and vote for RP before getting ejected from the convention?

The truly remarkable thing is that each person (except for PepperPete1 who picked #2) I ask this question suddenly leaves the thread! And what does that say?

[Sally08]

OP, this is a necessary fight. The media will paint all of our actions as childish or otherwise, whatever they can get away with and you will not like it. Learn to live with it. The media is part of this fight, too.

According to what I've seen, everything in NV was fair and we were playing by the rules. The situation was painted differently by the media and by the leaders of the GOP because they are our enemies.

Another public post example that proves my point, doesn't it?

And why, then, would you have any expectations that the GOP will "open the door" to allow its public "enemies" to enter?

Are you that politically naive?

[LittleLightShining]

I've been lurking on this thread and am dying to hear an answer.

[MMolloy]

I haven't left the thread!

And I wasn't elected to vote for anyone.... I'm Unbound

You should be asking the delegates who have been elected as McCain Delegates Your THREE questions... from what I've seen, not one person has yet identified themselves as such!

[pepperpete1]

now please answer mine.:)


I've been lurking on this thread and am dying to hear an answer.

[Sally08]

I haven't left the thread!

And I wasn't elected to vote for anyone.... I'm Unbound

You should be asking the delegates who have been elected as McCain Delegates Your THREE questions... from what I've seen, not one person has yet identified themselves as such!

In future, I will *never* vote for any delegate of any state I live in *without* such an answer.

In fact, I will *never* vote for any "RP Republican" without such an answer.

Is there a reason you *haven't* answered?

It's not a difficult or time-consuming question.

Simply indicate 1, 2 or 3.

[Broadlighter]

Another public post example that proves my point, doesn't it?

And why, then, would you have any expectations that the GOP will "open the door" to allow its public "enemies" to enter?

Are you that politically naive?

The GOP did it before. That's how the Neo-cons got in and rose to power, except they did more stealthily.

[MMolloy]

Are you totally braindead?

Your question does not apply to me!

[Sally08]

Keep on fishing.

Fishing for what? I'm confused.

I post my opinions and my very strong concerns about the damage being done.

The only question I have asked is one whose response gives a clear indication of a person's ethical system or lack thereof.

Is asking someone whether they support RP or not "fishing"?

[MMolloy]

And just a little aside to those who would like to know what's really going on with the delegates:

In my congressional district (CD-1 PA) there were exactly 6 delegates on the ballot... you get to pick 3

We had 3 RP delegates and 3 Party delegates (i.e. NOT McCain Delegates)
This was the case in 9 of the 19 congressional districts in PA

[dude58677]

In future, I will *never* vote for any delegate of any state I live in *without* such an answer.

In fact, I will *never* vote for any "RP Republican" without such an answer.

Is there a reason you *haven't* answered?

It's not a difficult or time-consuming question.

Simply indicate 1, 2 or 3.


We orginally were nice to the media and the GOP. We figured that Ron Paul's polite way about him was going to get the job done. The media didn't give Ron Paul a fair chance by not asking him enough questions during the debates and always making sure to state he was a long shot candidate regardless of the things he did during the campaign such as his straw poll victories which they called were "flukes" or his debate polls whcih they called it "spamming".

The GOP chairman Michigan and the National GOP set up a petition to have RP eliminated from debates after he made the blowback comments in a debate wit Rudy Guilani. RP supporters (myself included) called the Michigan GOP chairman at his home persistantly to have RP in the debates. The GOP chairman dropped the petition.

There is no rules saying that the leading candidate in the primaries must win the National Convention Nomination and we knew this for more than a year and the GOP is whining about it becuase they didn't expect RP supporters to think this far ahead because this was orignally supposed to be there advantage.

[RonPaulGuyEastWA]

Sally08, please answer PepperPete's questions.


Originally Posted by pepperpete1

I ran for national delegate to the convention, but was not elected. Chalk it up to ignorance of the rules. (Not any longer)
Mitt Romney dropping out of the race allowed us to vote for 19 "uncommitted" delegates.
But let's say that I was elected as a McCain delegate. I would abstain.......legal to do.
Would not defy the state's rules as then my vote would not count. No point in doing so.

Now I have some questions for you.
Please answer.

1. Are you a national delegate for your state?

2. Have you even run as a delegate?

3. How about a precinct captain for the campaign?

4. Have you been out in the public trying to ethically educate them as to what the situation is with their current government?

5. Are you personally reminding people that Dr. Ron Paul is still a candidate?

Whether there is blowback from RP getting the GOP nomination or not is irrelevant. If there is we deal with it. Like we have dealt with the GOP's out and out breaking of party rules and state statutes.
We are following the rules and "game plan" of the RNC, and each individual state.
Definitely NOT like the LAGOP who's chairman took it upon himself to extend the qualifying deadline. Did not put out the call to the primary as dictated by the RNC rules, put names of persons as delegates on McCain's slate without their permission, and then at the convention even admitted they broke the rules and it is placed on the record.

Keep on fishing.

[Broadlighter]

If I am to understand you correctly, if we were to play nice with the GOP leadership as you seem to think we should and as you seem to think Ron Paul would have us do, then we should take our marching orders from GOP Central and go along with the globalist, neo-con agenda.

How long must we hold our noses? How long must we betray our own principles before we throw off our cloaks and seize control of the party? Once in power, how are we to maintain the movement toward constitutional government, while it continually faces attack by our political opponents on the Left and Right?

We're trying to survive on a ship that's been taken hostage by pirates. We can't be afraid to state our truth in spite of how the MSM wants to portray us.

[torchbearer]

We orginally were nice to the media and the GOP. We figured that Ron Paul's polite way about him was going to get the job done. The media didn't give Ron Paul a fair chance by not asking him enough questions during the debates and always making sure to state he was a long shot candidate regardless of the things he did during the campaign such as his straw poll victories which they called were "flukes" or his debate polls whcih they called it "spamming".

The GOP chairman Michigan and the National GOP set up a petition to have RP eliminated from debates after he made the blowback comments in a debate wit Rudy Guilani. RP supporters (myself included) called the Michigan GOP chairman at his home persistantly to have RP in the debates. The GOP chairman dropped the petition.

There is no rules saying that the leading candidate in the primaries must win the National Convention Nomination and we knew this for more than a year and the GOP is whining about it becuase they didn't expect RP supporters to think this far ahead because this was orignally supposed to be there advantage.



Thread winner. And a QFMFT!
But this has already been said 200 times, and I predict the reply by Demented Sally will be the same as it was before, thus repeating the cycle over and over again.

THough you have typed out a perfect piece of factual information, this will have no impact on the condition.

Watch the next 5 pages of the same thing.
What makes these threads incredible in a scientific sense, is that you can actually do a frame by frame like in a movie, and you can see the same cycle of thought.

Make for an interesting thesis.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Are you totally braindead?

Your question does not apply to me!


I think this Sally person doesn't understand the difference between a bound and unbound delegate and that lots of states we are talking about have unbound delegates. The whole point of unbound delegates is to make sure people like McCain don't get in!!!

[crazyfacedjenkins]

People like Sally are the type of people who get whisked away to camps because they don't stand up and protect themselves. All along saying things such as "if I obey the law, everything will be ok."

[pepperpete1]

Fishing for what? I'm confused.

I post my opinions and my very strong concerns about the damage being done.

The only question I have asked is one whose response gives a clear indication of a person's ethical system or lack thereof.

Is asking someone whether they support RP or not "fishing"?

are based on an assumption that damage is being done, or will be done, if the delegates bound for McCain. You see that is in the future and has not happened yet. So, yeah, you are throwing your line around waiting for someone to bite.

Look it is hard enough to be as idealistic as we RP supporters are in the face of the corruption and illegal tactics of the party loyalists. We are not resorting to their manuevers, but instead need to combat them just to be allowed our right to vote and have that vote mean something.

Have you asked yourself, why is it so important to them, to resort to the tactics they are using, to keep out the paltry numbers of Ron Paul supporters?
(You have not answered my other questions, but please answer this one.)

If they did not feel that Dr. Ron Paul is a threat to their positions of power then why not allow the low numbers of Ron Paul delegates in to the national convention? What? Do they think we really will get him nominated?

And you are worried because you think he will be nominated and be embarassed by the "stealthful, devious, and unethical methods" we employed to get him that nomination?

This is so small a concern that, yup, I think you are a troll, mole, or anything but a Ron Paul supporter and I have to assume that the answer to all of my previous questions is ...........NO.:)

[RonPaulGuyEastWA]

Sally, answer PepperPete's questions.

[Sally08]

4. Have you been out in the public trying to ethically educate them as to what the situation is with their current government?

5. Are you personally reminding people that Dr. Ron Paul is still a candidate?


4. I have been an online activist for almost 10 years "trying to ethically educate them" as to what the CFR, the Bilderbergers, the US Educational System (which is why I have talked with Charlotte Iserbyt on the *phone*- FYI, her husband died today), and others were doing to our country.

For the decade of activist efforts, in just the education arena alone, they obviously haven't made a dent. Was their sacrifice of family time and interaction worth it? Looking back, would their choices have been *different*?

5. As I have already posted, I no longer MENTION RP'S NAME AT ALL, anymore.

Which is the exact point of this thread about the DAMAGE that has been done!

I had an article posted about RP that I REMOVED due to the harm it did to my online credibility.

NOTE: People who I asked for proofreading who I have "known" for years and whose opinions I trust implicitly were extremely favorable about the article and who I should send it to, UNTIL I related it to RP. Their opinions have been validated, yet again.

When RP requested a Washington March, I immediately wrote my well-known reporter contacts developed over the years.

I was embarrassed, yet again, when HQ said *nothing* for, what, 2 weeks? And then, RP backed out on video? Shouldn't that analysis/legal research have been done before the video?

And let's talk about the "winding down" video - given the fact that was a prepared speech, not impromptu, how come it almost destroyed both DP and RPF?

Those videos were incredibly destructive to both supporter morale and to RP's Presidential campaign.

How come people on both RPF and DP thought one of the HQ e-mails "From Ron Paul" (with "Whoa" in it) was a *hoax*?

Great HQ to grass roots communication, huh?

And what about the "nazi newsletters" response being the home page of RP2008? Bet no new visitors ever returned-

Then add my list of "incidents" already listed in this thread, the several state primaries and convention fiascos (REGARDLESS OF WHOSE FAULT!), the viciousness of public posts to many, many posters (no wonder so many lurk!), the absolute refusal to *debate* anything vs. PERSONALLY ATTACK, and why in the world would I EVER associate myself with "RP supporters"?

More importantly, why would anyone interested in a political career do so?

What kind of *hate* message is being spread in RP's name?

All of you might try setting up daily alerts for "Ron Paul" with both Google and Yahoo. Then, note the ratio of negative to "positive" RP links.

The negative articles are so bad that even neutral articles are celebrated as "positive"!

So, even older people with computer literacy who do not "hang out" on forums get an incredible amount of negative RP information with *links* to the sources. That means that the MSM is *not* the only other source of RP information.

In fact, many of those *negative* articles are also posted on RPF and/or DP. How dumb is that? I can no longer tell who are supporters and who are "moles"!

This campaign has truly been mind-boggling to behold from a simple business perspective-

I fail to see how many vicious/obscene threads/posts on RPF/DP "spread the message" to new people to convince them to support RP as opposed to validating the MSM statements about the RP "whackos" they have heard repeatedly.

[Sally08]

There is no rules saying that the leading candidate in the primaries must win the National Convention Nomination and we knew this for more than a year and the GOP is whining about it becuase they didn't expect RP supporters to think this far ahead because this was orignally supposed to be there advantage.

Have you ever heard the phrase, "Win the battle, but lose the war"?

Think of this thread and my concerns as each state convention convenes.

Then, do the same after the RNC, and, yet again, after the Electoral College decides who are President will be. It's already obvious that our votes in the general "election" will be meaningless-

The momentum is definitely picking up speed, but it is *not* in the direction of liberty!

[Sally08]

People like Sally are the type of people who get whisked away to camps because they don't stand up and protect themselves. All along saying things such as "if I obey the law, everything will be ok."

Certainly, those who do *not* obey the law are *definitely* taken away or fatally tasered! (Check the news today about court rulings about medical examiners taking out taser as cause of death - )

I *am* standing up for what I believe in the hopes of warning people of the upcoming TRAIN WRECK.

I guess you think I should just "move along", huh?

And that is what RP stands for, right?

I continue to shake my head with amazement with who I thought were RP supporters-

[LittleLightShining]

1. Are you a national delegate for your state?

2. Have you even run as a delegate?

3. How about a precinct captain for the campaign?

Which makes me think the answer is no to all 3. And you're obviously embarrassed by Ron Paul and his complete message which is why you are picking off the parts that suit you. That's fine. You don't have to agree with all of it. But I don't think your presumption to care about Ron Paul's image holds any water. Your fear and anxiety about your own image being tainted by true patriots is lost here because II don't think anyone gives a fig about what your neo-con friends think of you or us.

[Drsteveparent]

Sally08 is also known as Laurie on dailypaul and is know as MasonicMayhem on youtube.

Pepperpete, the answer to all your questions is NO and i know this already from other posts she makes on various posts.

She isn't the only one that can research ip addresses.

I rest my case.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Certainly, those who do *not* obey the law are *definitely* taken away or fatally tasered! (Check the news today about court rulings about medical examiners taking out taser as cause of death - )

I *am* standing up for what I believe in the hopes of warning people of the upcoming TRAIN WRECK.

I guess you think I should just "move along", huh?

And that is what RP stands for, right?

I continue to shake my head with amazement with who I thought were RP supporters-

I think that you are trying to tell the delegates to just "move along." Look, if a delegate is unbound, they should vote for whoever the fuck they want to! They got elected to do so, it's their fucking job. If they are bound, they should still vote for whoever they want to, what's the point of being a delegate? If the delegates just vote for whoever won, why wouldn't the popular votes just be tallied up in the first place without the delegates? It defeats the whole point of having delegates, it's a stupid rule that's meant to be broken. Get over it!

[Sally08]

are based on an assumption that damage is being done, or will be done, if the delegates bound for McCain. You see that is in the future and has not happened yet. So, yeah, you are throwing your line around waiting for someone to bite.

No, I'm asking a question that impacts whether I should trust them or not. Based on your #2 reply to abstain, it doesn't matter whether or not it's "illegal". What matters is that whether those who are bound for the first round misrepresented themselves to their states.

NOTE: Imagine that blacklist being published for family, friends, and potential employers, including any future political career intentions-

If they are lying to the GOP at the state level or the national level, why not simply lie to me, as well? How difficult is that?

Hmm, of course, they might have a problem if someone who knows them publicly *posts* that they lied (or it hurts their image with the *others* intending to lie, then they wouldn't know who to trust, either).


Look it is hard enough to be as idealistic as we RP supporters are in the face of the corruption and illegal tactics of the party loyalists.

Idealistic? I am an absolute cynic, based on history. Bound to repeat the same mistakes? Three strikes and we're out?


We are not resorting to their manuevers, but instead need to combat them just to be allowed our right to vote and have that vote mean something.

And I'm supposed to listen to you, when the *evidence* posted by others and actions witnessed by others totally invalidate your statement?

Aren't we supposed to think for ourselves?


Have you asked yourself, why is it so important to them, to resort to the tactics they are using, to keep out the paltry numbers of Ron Paul supporters?

Because anyone in power wishes to stay there? Isn't that the definition of politics?

Would *you* allow a bunch of inexperienced people to take the jobs of experienced people? If so, you wouldn't last long yourself-

Would the corporate world consider replacing middle-level managers with entry-level personnel?

Because the RP supporters and delegates have disrupted many levels of meetings, already?


(You have not answered my other questions, but please answer this one.)

Actually, this is my third lengthy reply to your questions.


If they did not feel that Dr. Ron Paul is a threat to their positions of power then why not allow the low numbers of Ron Paul delegates in to the national convention? What? Do they think we really will get him nominated?

Reasons already mentioned above.

As you just saw in Nevada, there is no way they will allow RP to be nominated. And as people have posted, it's a "private party" and there is no recourse to their decisions.


And you are worried because you think he will be nominated and be embarassed by the "stealthful, devious, and unethical methods" we employed to get him that nomination?

Thank you. You summed up one major concern very well.

Yes, RP will be embarrassed, but what will all of you do, if RP TURNS THE NOMINATION DOWN under those circumstances, due to his well-known ethical system?


This is so small a concern that, yup, I think you are a troll, mole, or anything but a Ron Paul supporter and I have to assume that the answer to all of my previous questions is ...........NO.:)

And given the fact that Bryan and several moderators/long-term RPF members/posters have already seen my real name and my real credentials/contacts, you simply come across as dumb.

If I were a RP supporter before, do you think your posts and those of others might have a negative impact on that support? Blowback, anyone?

Great job, keep up the good work "spreading the message". I just wish I could figure out which message!

Certainly, freedom to have my own opinions based on evidence I have to support those opinions is not acceptable! I'm just supposed to be a sheeple for a different group!

Ain't gonna happen.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Sally08 is also known as Laurie on dailypaul and is know as MasonicMayhem on youtube.

Pepperpete, the answer to all your questions is NO and i know this already from other posts she makes on various posts.

She isn't the only one that can research ip addresses.

I rest my case.

hahahahaha. Good catch. A lot of times I think these trolls are just 13 year old kids fucking with us.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

By the way, all this theory has no real life application. This OP should be bowing down to these delegates who actually have the balls to go out risk a lot to fight this corruption.

[Sally08]

I think that you are trying to tell the delegates to just "move along." Look, if a delegate is unbound, they should vote for whoever the fuck they want to! They got elected to do so, it's their fucking job. If they are bound, they should still vote for whoever they want to, what's the point of being a delegate? If the delegates just vote for whoever won, why wouldn't the popular votes just be tallied up in the first place without the delegates? It defeats the whole point of having delegates, it's a stupid rule that's meant to be broken. Get over it!

And another public post that clearly proves my concerns!

WHO MADE YOU "GOD"?

I am so proud to be in the "same tent". NOT!

QUESTION: Just out of curiousity, how would you react if Romney simply bribed delegates and won the nomination?

[Sally08]

hahahahaha. Good catch. A lot of times I think these trolls are just 13 year old kids fucking with us.

Given the fact that Ron and Carol Paul have my credentials, as well as a reference who they know, you look like the 13-year-old particularly with the language.

Another impressive "RP supporter".

[torchbearer]

This folks is dementia.
In fact, I overtly set the experiment, and even then, the condition could not be broken.
This isn't by choice, its a problem. Nothing short of medication will stop this loop.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

And another public post that clearly proves my concerns!

WHO MADE YOU "GOD"?

I am so proud to be in the "same tent". NOT!

QUESTION: Just out of curiousity, how would you react if Romney simply bribed delegates and won the nomination?

I've noticed that these 13 year old kids are great at this troll stuff.

[rodo1776]

Romney did bribe and he lost. McCain bribed and he won. We fight however we can to get some power.

And if we have to be uncommitted in order to get elected a delegate that is no different than the games the existing GOP plays. And the democrats for that matter. If you had ever been to a caucus or convention you would know that.

You obviously have no active experience in politics sally or whatever your name is

[crazyfacedjenkins]

This folks is dementia.
In fact, I overtly set the experiment, and even then, the condition could not be broken.
This isn't by choice, its a problem. Nothing short of medication will stop this loop.

hahahhaha so true!

[crazyfacedjenkins]

It wouldn't be the first time that some 13 year old kid came in here and fucked with everyone's heads.

[Sally08]

Romney did bribe and he lost.

If national delegates who were elected as "bound" by their state rules vote for whoever they feel like, Romney could win the same way as you hope RP can.

So could Lou Dobbs or Hitler.

Is this any way to elect our President?

[Sally08]

By the way, all this theory has no real life application. This OP should be bowing down to these delegates who actually have the balls to go out risk a lot to fight this corruption.

How long do you think RP would survive, if he got the nomination? Would he even make the general election?

The same concerns are already reported about Obama's risks-

Would you be willing to take *that* risk? Think Bhutto-

[crazyfacedjenkins]

If national delegates who were elected as "bound" by their state rules vote for whoever they feel like, Romney could win the same way as you hope RP can.

So could Lou Dobbs or Hitler.

Is this any way to elect our President?

you're not even old enough to vote, what do you care?

[rodo1776]

Romney is bribing his way into the VP spot. You think he got up at the Nevada Convention and asked people to run for delegate for him. NOT! he is sucking up to mcdufus to get the VP nod.

What you can't see that?

[Sally08]

you're not even old enough to vote, what do you care?

Again, the people whose opinions I *respect* know exactly how old I am, my contact information, and my credentials.

So, go ahead and post nonsense. People judge *you* by your posts, as well-

These threads have always been so impressive to see - the new "Oprah"!

Just more sheeple!

HAHAHAHA!

[torchbearer]

you're not even old enough to vote, what do you care?

Seriously, I have worked in the profession. I know people in her condition. This is unstoppable. It will go on for hours, like a compulsion.
And its predictable, and in that right a serious condition.

Not a kid, but a sick mind.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Again, the people whose opinions I *respect* know exactly how old I am, my contact information, and my credentials.

So, go ahead and post nonsense. People judge *you* by your posts, as well-

These threads have always been so impressive to see - the new "Oprah"!

Just more sheeple!

HAHAHAHA!

The thing about these 13 year old trolls is that they are relentless...

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Seriously, I have worked in the profession. I know people in her condition. This is unstoppable. It will go on for hours, like a compulsion.
And its predictable, and in that right a serious condition.

Not a kid, but a sick mind.

It's kind of bizarre, it's almost like they get off on pretending to be a 13 year old kid troll.

[Sally08]

Romney is bribing his way into the VP spot. You think he got up at the Nevada Convention and asked people to run for delegate for him. NOT! he is sucking up to mcdufus to get the VP nod.

What you can't see that?

If you think that RP can get the nomination due to "stealth tactics", why can't Romney be doing exactly the same thing? Huh?

Alternatively, Romney takes VP nod, because he already knows full well that McCain will have to drop out for health/legal reasons. Sounds like a strategy to me!

I'm still waiting for Hillary to bring out the McCain POW evidence that he refuses to release. I'm sure the Clintons have had that evidence for years-

[torchbearer]

It's kind of bizarre, it's almost like they get off on pretending to be a 13 year old kid troll.

That would be a description of the behavior, yes. But as long as people are playing into it... it continues. It is actually a form of "getting off" for some very sick minds. Think of the true collectivist. Think of how their mind works, is it not sick? As in seriously, a psychotic strain of priviledged criminals have gained control of our outlets of media...our outlets of world perception.

This sally person is an output of that type of conditioning.
Some of us were immune or lucky in some aspect to be pulled out of the lullaby we were in just a few years ago.. or whenever it was when you finally woke up.

I was a hard core libertarian, and I was still conned by the pied piper and his tune of making my world that more easier to digest with lies.

When studying history, people often say, how could those people follow hitler, and in the information above, you will find your answer.
Sally is a product of their society.

[rodo1776]

RP may not get delegates (although he reportedly won 7 of 9 which I think no one disputes) from Nevada because Romney/McCain and the political hacks LIE CHEAT AND STEAL!

So we are supposed to then be real nice and say Oh OK then if we can't vote on this and you say we lost then OK we will just go home.

No way!! We use the rules and the same games they play in order to get some representation.

I don't see RP out here saying no stealth tactics. Since you know him so well what his opinion on it?

Did the National Field Coordinator Debbie Hopper not use stealth in Missouri? I think you should check it out.

Again your lack of political experience is obvious. Too bad you have not participated obviously like many other who are learning and getting experience.

[Sally08]

Seriously, I have worked in the profession. I know people in her condition. This is unstoppable. It will go on for hours, like a compulsion.
And its predictable, and in that right a serious condition.

Not a kid, but a sick mind.

Look at how impressive the posters are to their "peers"!

And, of course, the people who keep posting to keep the thread active don't have any impulse control problems, right?

127 posts and 1526 views - sounds like a lot of "compulsions" to me!

And "I have worked in the profession" - does that mean you no longer do, or are you making diagnoses publicly without adequate information?

Sounds like an ethics violation to me-

[torchbearer]

Just to let everyone know, Sally is not my client.
Nor has she ever been, to my knowledge, one of my clients.
And if she is one of my clients, she needs to take her medication as prescribed, and be sure to be at your appointments. Just because you are feeling better doesn't mean you get off your meds, remember that.

[Sally08]

Just to let everyone know, Sally is not my client.
Nor has she ever been, to my knowledge, one of my clients.
And if she is one of my clients, she needs to take her medication as prescribed, and be sure to be at your appointments. Just because you are feeling better doesn't mean you get off your meds, remember that.

Since I am anonymous, you don't even know whether I *am*a client or not, now or ever.

Yet, you have been publicly posting a diagnosis, as well as publicly posting medical recommendations. Are you part of Big Pharma, by any chance?

I wonder what the other ethical doctors on this board would think.

Ethics seems to be a critical issue on this board recently-

Hopefully, I won't find out your real name-

I'd be curious to hear your equivalent diagnosis of "Steve Parent" and his followers-

[torchbearer]

The change in tone and direction would lead forensics to a crime.
And now the point is proven. Read the full collection, beginning to end.

after you are done dissecting, please lay this thread to rest. archival heaven is waiting.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

That would be a description of the behavior, yes. But as long as people are playing into it... it continues. It is actually a form of "getting off" for some very sick minds. Think of the true collectivist. Think of how their mind works, is it not sick? As in seriously, a psychotic strain of priviledged criminals have gained control of our outlets of media...our outlets of world perception.

This sally person is an output of that type of conditioning.
Some of us were immune or lucky in some aspect to be pulled out of the lullaby we were in just a few years ago.. or whenever it was when you finally woke up.

I was a hard core libertarian, and I was still conned by the pied piper and his tune of making my world that more easier to digest with lies.

When studying history, people often say, how could those people follow hitler, and in the information above, you will find your answer.
Sally is a product of their society.

I think you are dead on with this one. Although, I still wouldn't be surprised if there was a 13 year old kid behind that spam station.

[Sally08]

The change in tone and direction would lead forensics to a crime.
And now the point is proven. Read the full collection, beginning to end.

after you are done dissecting, please lay this thread to rest. archival heaven is waiting.

Just sent a PM to Bryan about whether his risk is increased by such ethics violations with medical diagnoses and recommendations.

I highly recommend that people read the entire thread to see the many "conditions" in plain view -

Like Torchbearer pulling "doctor credibility" to build up his superiority, as well as his inability to control his own impulse control-

Gee, yet another "doctor". Which one can I believe, if any?

Are these the type of people you trust with the future of our country?

Are these the type of people RP hopes will take the "next steps"?

They've certainly lost all credibility with me!

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Can somebody just turn the spam bot off?

[rodo1776]

Sally your fear of doctor's and their diagnoses is truly understandable. (I Hope you were not referring to our true Doctor Paul?)

Dr. Torch (and we are all still trying to find out what his real name is after months of asking)
has made many a correct diagnoses here on the forum. Once again he has come through with another.

I'm sure that all the mods here will back that up.

Many of us actually have received free consultations from Dr. Torch and I for one thank him and feel much better after a consultation with him.

And of course I stay on my meds like he recommends.

Now it has been real fun to hear your very positive comments. Maybe it is time for bed. A nice restful sleep could do you wonders.

Sleep well and keep those doctor's appointments.

[Drsteveparent]

Sally08 you never answer the questions that are asked of you.

You only come here and spread this rhetoric and then ignore the people that either answer your questions or ignore the questions that are asked of you.

BTW, Torchbearer is running for congress so i assume he is a threat to Ron Pauls reputations as well?

Please stop this nonsense

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Sally your fear of doctor's and their diagnoses is truly understandable. (I Hope you were not referring to our true Doctor Paul?)

Dr. Torch (and we are all still trying to find out what his real name is after months of asking)
has made many a correct diagnoses here on the forum. Once again he has come through with another.

I'm sure that all the mods here will back that up.

Many of us actually have received free consultations from Dr. Torch and I for one thank him and feel much better after a consultation with him.

And of course I stay on my meds like he recommends.

Now it has been real fun to hear your very positive comments. Maybe it is time for bed. A nice restful sleep could do you wonders.

Sleep well and keep those doctor's appointments.

hahahhahah, awesome

[torchbearer]

Sally08 you never answer the questions that are asked of you.

You only come here and spread this rhetoric and then ignore the people that either answer your questions or ignore the questions that are asked of you.

BTW, Torchbearer is running for congress so i assume he is a threat to Ron Pauls reputations as well?

Please stop this nonsense

This Doctor is running for City Council, not Congress. There wasn't enough support for that big of a race yet.

But I do appreciate the plugs, because I will be in that seat one day soon.

[Ninja Homer]

I hope nobody's taking this thread seriously, and everybody's just bumping it up for fun. Remember when we used to get 300 or so posts like this a day?

It's times like this that I miss Revolution9:

"All Right All You Cynical Clowns

Ya all got yerself a real chucklefest of mind burbling cynicism going on like a gaggle of geese mussing over a smattering of cracked corn, giving additional thrust to your dualistic and corrupted momentum . Reminiscent of the garbage truck in The Matrix yer all having a good run at Trinity in the telephone booth to end up plowing through the empty booth leaving your puss suction cupped to the brick wall with the vacuum between your ears ensuring continued adhesion. I sure as hell ain't gonna remove your vapid and gaping fumarole of cynical rhetoric when i would rather land a size ten motorcycle boot up yer scrawny and pathetic asses.. Brick walls make great gags for loudmouth twits anyways ...

Some of you dweebs are not grassroots..yer just a load of tomfoolery and juvenile idiotics all wound up in a spew gambit on an internets board. Yer input is worthless, Your motives for being here suspect and your gambits are trite, contrived, peurile, obsessively cynical and bordering on sociopathic ineptitude.

There are many things that you gang of abderitic simpletons will never get your heads around.. Fer instance..some people do have lots of cash and integrity and connections and are just as pissed as you and me.. You are telling us that if you had a few billion and major connections you would sit on your sorry and procrastinating ass? Probably would because your level of cynicism would cause you to promulgate negativity and failure as the run of the mill of life and yer insulated by yer billions. Thing is that clowns with this type of attitude will never have a billion because they have deemed in advance they do not deserve it..and they are 100% correct. Who the fuck needs their bullshit..regardless of if they tag a high dollar price tag on it.

So, continue your little chucklefest and get those ya-ya's out. Others already have their sleeves rolled up and are making things happen without your trepidant and prevaricating droolings laden with vituperatively cynical effluvience. Keep trolling though.. yer the ones being tailwalked.. It has happened many times in this campaign where the drool was wiped massively from wide swaths of neanderthal chins and sweat drizzling from their zinjanthropian brows when shit went down that was unexpected. WE..The Grassroots are the biggest of the unexpected..and if you think we all are poor and have no connectons except our frat buddies you ain't been paying good attention..

Just to let you clowns know.. We got yer number.

Sargeant-At-Arms
Randy
-Firing Range Officer"

Still my favorite post ever.

[torchbearer]

I hope nobody's taking this thread seriously, and everybody's just bumping it up for fun. Remember when we used to get 300 or so posts like this a day?

It's times like this that I miss Revolution9:

"All Right All You Cynical Clowns

Ya all got yerself a real chucklefest of mind burbling cynicism going on like a gaggle of geese mussing over a smattering of cracked corn, giving additional thrust to your dualistic and corrupted momentum . Reminiscent of the garbage truck in The Matrix yer all having a good run at Trinity in the telephone booth to end up plowing through the empty booth leaving your puss suction cupped to the brick wall with the vacuum between your ears ensuring continued adhesion. I sure as hell ain't gonna remove your vapid and gaping fumarole of cynical rhetoric when i would rather land a size ten motorcycle boot up yer scrawny and pathetic asses.. Brick walls make great gags for loudmouth twits anyways ...

Some of you dweebs are not grassroots..yer just a load of tomfoolery and juvenile idiotics all wound up in a spew gambit on an internets board. Yer input is worthless, Your motives for being here suspect and your gambits are trite, contrived, peurile, obsessively cynical and bordering on sociopathic ineptitude.

There are many things that you gang of abderitic simpletons will never get your heads around.. Fer instance..some people do have lots of cash and integrity and connections and are just as pissed as you and me.. You are telling us that if you had a few billion and major connections you would sit on your sorry and procrastinating ass? Probably would because your level of cynicism would cause you to promulgate negativity and failure as the run of the mill of life and yer insulated by yer billions. Thing is that clowns with this type of attitude will never have a billion because they have deemed in advance they do not deserve it..and they are 100% correct. Who the fuck needs their bullshit..regardless of if they tag a high dollar price tag on it.

So, continue your little chucklefest and get those ya-ya's out. Others already have their sleeves rolled up and are making things happen without your trepidant and prevaricating droolings laden with vituperatively cynical effluvience. Keep trolling though.. yer the ones being tailwalked.. It has happened many times in this campaign where the drool was wiped massively from wide swaths of neanderthal chins and sweat drizzling from their zinjanthropian brows when shit went down that was unexpected. WE..The Grassroots are the biggest of the unexpected..and if you think we all are poor and have no connectons except our frat buddies you ain't been paying good attention..

Just to let you clowns know.. We got yer number.

Sargeant-At-Arms
Randy
-Firing Range Officer"

Still my favorite post ever.

I think Randy will approve of my new methods.
I don't use the lashing of the tongue. I'd rather digest the brain.

[crazyfacedjenkins]

In all seriousness, I think we found the spam bot that Hannity was talking about.

[rodo1776]

Hey Ninja Homer it was worth bumping this around just to get you to post that one.

Excellent. Sally you like that one?

[torchbearer]

In all seriousness, I think we found the spam bot that Hannity was talking about.

Or you sure? I thought that was SeekLiberty?
I could have been wrong all this time. I'm ashamed.

[pcosmar]

Just sent a PM to Bryan about whether his risk is increased by such ethics violations with medical diagnoses and recommendations.

I highly recommend that people read the entire thread to see the many "conditions" in plain view -

Like Torchbearer pulling "doctor credibility" to build up his superiority, as well as his inability to control his own impulse control-

Gee, yet another "doctor". Which one can I believe, if any?

Are these the type of people you trust with the future of our country?

Are these the type of people RP hopes will take the "next steps"?

They've certainly lost all credibility with me!
This is bizarre.
I don't know which online personality I am reminded of most.
This one,
http://www.shelleytherepublican.com/
or this.
http://bettybowers.com/

[torchbearer]

Now that is a declaration of war.
You hear that Sally. War. :D Mix that in with your dementia.


"All Right All You Cynical Clowns

Ya all got yerself a real chucklefest of mind burbling cynicism going on like a gaggle of geese mussing over a smattering of cracked corn, giving additional thrust to your dualistic and corrupted momentum . Reminiscent of the garbage truck in The Matrix yer all having a good run at Trinity in the telephone booth to end up plowing through the empty booth leaving your puss suction cupped to the brick wall with the vacuum between your ears ensuring continued adhesion. I sure as hell ain't gonna remove your vapid and gaping fumarole of cynical rhetoric when i would rather land a size ten motorcycle boot up yer scrawny and pathetic asses.. Brick walls make great gags for loudmouth twits anyways ...

Some of you dweebs are not grassroots..yer just a load of tomfoolery and juvenile idiotics all wound up in a spew gambit on an internets board. Yer input is worthless, Your motives for being here suspect and your gambits are trite, contrived, peurile, obsessively cynical and bordering on sociopathic ineptitude.

There are many things that you gang of abderitic simpletons will never get your heads around.. Fer instance..some people do have lots of cash and integrity and connections and are just as pissed as you and me.. You are telling us that if you had a few billion and major connections you would sit on your sorry and procrastinating ass? Probably would because your level of cynicism would cause you to promulgate negativity and failure as the run of the mill of life and yer insulated by yer billions. Thing is that clowns with this type of attitude will never have a billion because they have deemed in advance they do not deserve it..and they are 100% correct. Who the fuck needs their bullshit..regardless of if they tag a high dollar price tag on it.

So, continue your little chucklefest and get those ya-ya's out. Others already have their sleeves rolled up and are making things happen without your trepidant and prevaricating droolings laden with vituperatively cynical effluvience. Keep trolling though.. yer the ones being tailwalked.. It has happened many times in this campaign where the drool was wiped massively from wide swaths of neanderthal chins and sweat drizzling from their zinjanthropian brows when shit went down that was unexpected. WE..The Grassroots are the biggest of the unexpected..and if you think we all are poor and have no connectons except our frat buddies you ain't been paying good attention..

Just to let you clowns know.. We got yer number.

Sargeant-At-Arms
Randy
-Firing Range Officer"





The words of someone far greater than you. A Leader in this revolution.

[Ninja Homer]

I think Randy will approve of my new methods.
I don't use the lashing of the tongue. I'd rather digest the brain.

I certainly approve the new methods. Keep an eye on that digestion though... I fear the brain and backside may have been switched. You may want to chase it with a shot of apple cider vinegar to help break down the fats.

[torchbearer]

I certainly approve the new methods. Keep an eye on that digestion though... I fear the brain and backside may have been switched. You may want to chase it with a shot of apple cider vinegar to help break down the fats.

I agree, A good detox is in order. See ya tomorrow, gunney.
Another day in this struggle called life.

We are doing good. A year ago, not so many minds were awake.
Today- many minds have awaken.

These kind of threads and their intesity will increase as we grow.
Randy will be back around, a lot of us are trying to catch our breathe.
My webmaster has been awol. I figure he's taking a break. Burn out happens.
But get your breathe back.. and get pluggin away.

The Sally's of the World aren't going to wake up on their own.
We need to change the text of the printing press. The words our country is printing out right now are all wrong.

[pinkmandy]

I certainly approve the new methods. Keep an eye on that digestion though... I fear the brain and backside may have been switched. You may want to chase it with a shot of apple cider vinegar to help break down the fats.


:D

Where is Randy anyway? That was one of the best posts ever, thanks for bringing that one back.

[Sally08]

Sally08 you never answer the questions that are asked of you.

You only come here and spread this rhetoric and then ignore the people that either answer your questions or ignore the questions that are asked of you.

BTW, Torchbearer is running for congress so i assume he is a threat to Ron Pauls reputations as well?

Please stop this nonsense


This Doctor is running for City Council, not Congress. There wasn't enough support for that big of a race yet.

But I do appreciate the plugs, because I will be in that seat one day soon.

And exactly which questions did I ignore? You answered the only ones I hadn't, just as you have posted many times before.

Actually, I'm watching the results of *your* delegate "teachings".

Haven't been very effective so far, have they, except for making headlines-

My bets? That RNC won't seat any RP delegates and RP will definitely not be allowed to speak.

Does that answer my question in the thread about net *negative* impact of all your efforts. My "congratulations" for helping the RP movement-

Time will tell- And only a very short time at that.

[pepperpete1]

I do not have time for anymore of the OP. I have to write my stump speech for precinct delegate. Congrats on running for city council. They should be proud to have you. Now that you are no longer running for congress........does that mean there is no excuse not to get married now?

[crazyfacedjenkins]

16 pages of this!!! HAHAHA! The insanity of this really has got my laughing to the point of tears. Keep up the good work everyone, we'll shut this bot down one way or the other.

[Sally08]

16 pages of this!!! HAHAHA! The insanity of this really has got my laughing to the point of tears. Keep up the good work everyone, we'll shut this bot down one way or the other.

I was just on the phone with Bryan for the last 1.5 hours.

We actually had many areas of agreement-

That also means he has validated who I am, my *age*, and my "credentials".

Will "Steve Parent" do the same?

So, make fun, buddy-

[pinkmandy]

16 pages of this!!! HAHAHA! The insanity of this really has got my laughing to the point of tears. Keep up the good work everyone, we'll shut this bot down one way or the other.

Stop laughing! She's told you at least 3-4 times (maybe more?) that she has credentials. Don't make fun of someone with credentials. Silly Ron Paul supporters- don't you care about credentials? :p

[crazyfacedjenkins]

Stop laughing! She's told you at least 3-4 times (maybe more?) that she has credentials. Don't make fun of someone with credentials. Silly Ron Paul supporters- don't you care about credentials? :p

hehehe. For some reason that reminds me of when Tom was speaking to the Bobs. http://youtube.com/watch?v=gR7HDERBCQE

[crazyfacedjenkins]

I was just on the phone with Bryan for the last 1.5 hours.

We actually had many areas of agreement-

That also means he has validated who I am, my *age*, and my "credentials".

Will "Steve Parent" do the same?

So, make fun, buddy-

Damn. Whoever programmed this spam bot is good.

[MelissaWV]

Sorry to nitpick but... how does speaking on the phone with someone verify their age?

Anyhow, the problem with regret, hindsight, and second-guessing is that one has the benefit of cherry-picking circumstances. The Delegate Push is the process by which candidates become elected. If it was never the intention of some posters to obtain delegates, then I have bad news: this is the Presidential race. We need delegates in order for that race to occur. The establishment people will not be happy with any delegates we obtain, period.

Ideally I hope people are crossing their t's and dotting their i's... and prepared to make sure the opposition has done the same. The movement has attracted ALL sorts, as people have heard me say every time I'm given a chance. Early on, when there were people screaming "the Truthers will sink Ron Paul!" I pointed out that of course there are Truthers for Paul. There are housewives, stoners, businessmen, doctors, lawyers, students, elderly, etc. for Paul as well. There are people who want to make a dime off the entire phenomenon. There are those who want to herd us all together and make some sort of coup with our impressive numbers. There are some walking on their own to make whatever impact they can. It's what makes this whole "thing" great. We the People. It's also what makes it so hard for people to hammer down those details. We each need to do it for ourselves. I pray that people will use a bit of sense and logic and that the outcomes are favorable more often than not.

What's that mean? It means that hopefully people will use a bit of tact. It means that, like it or not, the establishment people don't react well to someone in jeans or sweats at a Convention. It means that maybe it's better to pick a few people to have Robert's Rules reference sheets and be ready to make basic motions in a booming, clear voice... rather than everyone stand up and attempt to make the same motion at once. It means that if you're challenged, be wary but be courteous, and perhaps don't go in there assuming everyone is out to get you (that sort of thing shows in your posture, your speech, etc). It means that every rule and law has loopholes, which the establishment folks have been swimming through for years, and they aren't going to be pointed out to you easily, not even by someone on these forums (necessarily). It means you should know your state's dates, you should have materials in place, you should do your best to know who your local politicians are who best represent your ideals. If there aren't any, it means you should perhaps consider running yourself.

The question isn't whether or not the delegate push is helpful or harmful... it's whether each step we take is helpful or harmful. Is it helpful to disrupt for the sake of disrupting? Is it helpful to let only half a story be told? Is it helpful to let a mistake go uncorrected? Is it helpful to break binding if the penalty is to lose your ability to participate next time around, or a fine, or whatever the case is in your state? Is it helpful to advocate violence? Is it helpful to grand-stand and put your ego above all else? Is it helpful to put down the efforts of others, and make assumptions about their contributions to Ron Paul's campaigns? Is it helpful to snipe at each other's personalities at the first given chance, out in the open, by name, and use one's soap box as a means to demean rather than educate and assist?

"The delegate push" is a necessary part of a campaign. I just hope it's kept ethical and non-violent, the way Dr. Paul has always asked it be.

[acptulsa]

How long do you think RP would survive, if he got the nomination? Would he even make the general election?

The same concerns are already reported about Obama's risks-

Would you be willing to take *that* risk? Think Bhutto-

Well now, Sally. Thank God not everyone in the world is an irrational, excitable, conspiracy-minded Ron Paul supporter.

Right?

Yes, I'd be willing to take that risk, Sally. "Give me liberty or give me death." That's what the United States of America means to me, Sally. It's about liberty and freedom for the generations. That I believe in. What do you believe in, Sally? With the exception of "credentials" and dropping Bryan's name, what exactly do you believe in?

What is this nation in your eyes, Sally? What does the United States of America mean to you?

P.S. And for your information, Sally, as of the last count I saw (prior to Pennsylvania), eleven million conservative Republican primary voters had split their votes between Romney, Huckabee, Paul and Thompson while eight million moderates had merely had to choose between McCain and a cross-dresser. So, we have eight million disenfranchising eleven million--and had the media not prematurely declared a winner, more conservatives would have voted against McCain in places like Texas. Is this any way to elect a president?

[pcosmar]

Credentials

http://login.greatbignews.com/UserFiles/118/images/Askmebuttons.jpg

http://www.roadierags.com/shop/images/credentials.jpg

:D

[wgadget]

We are persistent, which in my book is a virtue.

[acptulsa]

Another question, Sally. Why do you seem to consider the corporate model optimum for government.

Does the term 'fascism' mean anything to you?

[rathskeller]

Well, I will say one way where it is harmful.

There as never any chance to get a man who earned anywhere from 14-21 delegates all the way up to 1191. It was impossible. Even with the current rules. It simply was not going to happen.

Now...suppose in 2012, or 2016, another Ron Paul candidate came along as managed to actually win a few states, and had much stronger showings in many others. Maybe he even managed to get 400 delegates pledged. If that happened, it MIGHT have been possible (if not probable) to get him the nomination under the current rules.

However, those current rules will no longer apply. In the next 4 years, every single state is going to make some sweeping changes to their delegate process to avoid that very scenario. Rules will be changed to ensure that delegates can only vote for the candidate that won the primary. I am not tlaking about penalties. It will simply be impossible. And not just for one round. For 2 or more. Every state.

So, there is no way to get a nomination now except to win it through the primaries. And this is the result of trying to have ron Paul go from 15 delegates to 100.

Honestly, to me, it was not worth it. And I really don't think it was worth it to Ron Paul. If you noticed, he never really endorsed this whole plan. He wanted a strong showing, yes. But at no point did he want people try try to steal him the nomination.

[acptulsa]

If you noticed, he never really endorsed this whole plan. He wanted a strong showing, yes. But at no point did he want people try try to steal him the nomination.

I don't imagine he wanted them to steal his win in Louisiana by disenfranchising Huckabee and Romney supporters and giving their votes to McCain, either...

[torchbearer]

How does one steal a nomination? Does it not require delegates to vote you the nominee?
If you have the required number of delegates voting for you, and then the RNC give the nomination to someone else... That would be stealing.

You must be thinking we live in a democracy, thats the fox news collectivist propaganda.
Our nominees are chosen by delegates. And our president is chosen my presidential electors.

So, I don't see how you can steal a nomination, because if you actually have the delegates voting for you, then you have the support of the convention.

Check out this article: http://thehill.com/leading-the-news/gingrich-warns-gop-of-real-disaster-this-fall-2008-05-06.html

Notice the Republican in Louisiana lost his special election.
Want to know how that democrat won a republican district?

Look here as Woody Jenkins people participate in the royal fucking of the Ron Paul delegates in Louisiana.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kvd32V7WdoE

Who got robbed in Louisiana? McCain wasn't the "nominee" then, and he isn't the nominee now.

You will notice that we followed the rules, they broke them all to keep us from sweeping Louisiana prior to Super Tuesday.

WHo did it hurt? Not us.
You will now see all the NeoCons lose their seats. And as those dominos collapse, the local membership will "lose confidence" in their current Sheep Herders.
And who were the people that were fighting the party corruption? We were.

Think about this statement: Ron Paul is like Goldwater.
Goldwater led the way for Reagan. Ron Paul will lead the way to our next Reagan, and their will be a GOP purge, and it will be because we did not relent.

[RonPaulFever]

People like Sally are the ones who whine and get nothing done. Hats off to all of those working hard at restoring the GOP to its conservative roots.

[wgadget]

Well, I will say one way where it is harmful.

There as never any chance to get a man who earned anywhere from 14-21 delegates all the way up to 1191. It was impossible. Even with the current rules. It simply was not going to happen.

Now...suppose in 2012, or 2016, another Ron Paul candidate came along as managed to actually win a few states, and had much stronger showings in many others. Maybe he even managed to get 400 delegates pledged. If that happened, it MIGHT have been possible (if not probable) to get him the nomination under the current rules.

However, those current rules will no longer apply. In the next 4 years, every single state is going to make some sweeping changes to their delegate process to avoid that very scenario. Rules will be changed to ensure that delegates can only vote for the candidate that won the primary. I am not tlaking about penalties. It will simply be impossible. And not just for one round. For 2 or more. Every state.

So, there is no way to get a nomination now except to win it through the primaries. And this is the result of trying to have ron Paul go from 15 delegates to 100.

Honestly, to me, it was not worth it. And I really don't think it was worth it to Ron Paul. If you noticed, he never really endorsed this whole plan. He wanted a strong showing, yes. But at no point did he want people try try to steal him the nomination.


Why do you speak in the past tense, newbie?

[Ninja Homer]

So, there is no way to get a nomination now except to win it through the primaries. And this is the result of trying to have ron Paul go from 15 delegates to 100.

Honestly, to me, it was not worth it. And I really don't think it was worth it to Ron Paul. If you noticed, he never really endorsed this whole plan. He wanted a strong showing, yes. But at no point did he want people try try to steal him the nomination.

Sally? Are you in there, Sally?

(Sorry if you aren't Sally, but really, your first post here is to bump up this thread and this is what you say?)

[HenryKnoxFineBooks]

Why even respond to someone who has 3 posts, and joined in april? (AND is negative)

[acptulsa]

Why even respond to someone who has 3 posts, and joined in april? (AND is negative)

Because I enjoy it so much more than letting the devil's own advocate sway the lurkers over to the wrong side unopposed!

[BarryDonegan]

we are in a period of civil unrest, record low approval ratings, unpopular war, economic hardship, and a government which is in dissonance with our founding documents.

it is expected that the least popular of the two major parties will become a place where people with outside the mainstream ideas will battle it out for control; power loves a vacuum.considering a battle for power is happening, it is to be expected that in some cases it will get ugly.

remember, civil unrest is the fault of leadership, not of the people. qualified, understanding, non-corrupted leadership can get any room in order, just by finding the desires of both groups and finding a compromise.

we are a large mass of people desperately hoping to get something changed, which we do not have the capability to do yet. we are building and amassing that capability, and finding great resistance. if it gets ugly at times, we cannot be to blame. sometimes emerging movements are even victimized by people with far more radical idealogies hoping to get a banner incident. (historical example, bloody sunday in ireland)

so when people in a large group become offended, we cannot blame them. also, when rights are flagrantly violated, rules thrown aside in the face of a crowd, if the crowd doesn't become unruly, then in the future these violations will continue.

this idea that you cannot affect change in an environment where your opposition becomes angry,this is simply not true.

ultimately, people change. sometimes this path to change involves anger, as the ideas your presenting to them require them facing things about themselves they do not want to see.

[rathskeller]

I don't imagine he wanted them to steal his win in Louisiana by disenfranchising Huckabee and Romney supporters and giving their votes to McCain, either...

That is not the point though. Them doingthat was all gain and no risk for them.

Trying to get Ron Paul the nomination is all risk, without any potential for gain.

That is the big difference there. The risks (the inevitable changes that will be made to prevent it from happening again) vastly outweighed the gains (getting Ron Paul a few extra dozen delegates, but not stopping McCain from getting nominated.)

[rathskeller]

Because I enjoy it so much more than letting the devil's own advocate sway the lurkers over to the wrong side unopposed!


Please explain how I am negative. MY god...do you not realize that people like yo are the reason why the support has not grown? If you can't accept the FACT that what some people tried to do with the delegate process was futile, and counter-productive to the movement's future, then you are NOT spekaing for Ron Paul, who did see that all along.

I aloso love hte "who has 3 posts." In other words..you don't WANT new members. You want to be a little insignificnat fringe group of outcasts. Nice.

Thankfully...you sure as hell do not speak for the typical Ron Paul support or him. Because you would are an embarrssment to his name.

[Sally08]

Any predictions about media coverage out of Utah this weekend?

And, what a surprise, "Steve Parent" (without the "Dr.") is quoted as the source for RP supporters-

QUESTION: If unbinding Romney's delegates in Utah is "changing the rules in the middle of the game", then isn't that logic equally true at the RNC?

Which way will RP delegates vote today, to keep national delegates bound or to unbind them from Romney?

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9211438

Ron Paul supporters hoping to infiltrate Utah delegation
By Robert Gehrke
The Salt Lake Tribune

Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated:05/09/2008 08:03:59 PM MDT
Posted: 8:04 PM- The Ron Paul Revolution will not go quietly.
As they have done in Nevada, Minnesota and elsewhere, a number of Utah Ron Paul backers are trying to get elected Saturday as delegates to the Republican National Convention where, under a proposed rule change, they could be free to vote for whomever they want.
Under existing party rules, the 36 Utah delegates to the convention are obligated to vote for Mitt Romney, who won the state GOP primary with 90 percent of the vote.
But on Saturday, the state party will consider changing its rules to release the delegates and let them vote for whom they see fit.
The proposed bylaws change comes in response to a request from Romney, after he dropped out of the race, to release his bound delegates.
"I strongly encourage all released and uncommitted delegates to cast their votes for Senator John McCain at the convention," Romney wrote in a letter to the state party.
In essence, it makes the state's Republican primary in February meaningless, leaving the decision to the elected delegates.
That could free the delegates to support whomever they want at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minn., in September - a point not lost on Paul supporters.
On blogs and in e-mails, Paul backers have spread a strategy aimed at getting Paul supporters elected as delegates in order to keep McCain from getting enough delegate support to clinch the nomination. That could force a convention fight, they argue, and give Paul a path - albeit a contorted one - to win the nomination.
"We will try to force a brokered convention - there is no way around it," writes Steve Parent on The Daily Paul blog.
Last month, the Nevada GOP convention ended in chaos, as Paul supporters were poised to be elected to a majority of the 31 state delegate slots before party leaders abruptly adjourned the gathering without picking the national delegates. Paul supporters cried foul and shouted that the process was rigged.
In Utah, about 100 people have filed to run for national delegate, many of them for the first time, and many of them professed Paul supporters.
The McCain campaign declined to comment, but this week state delegates received a recorded phone message from Romney urging them to vote for a slate of endorsed McCain delegates. The campaign also will have local and national political operatives working the convention Saturday.
Lowell Nelson, a Paul supporter running for national delegate, said he doesn't anticipate chaos erupting Saturday, or going to St. Paul to vote for Paul. He just wants to see the rules stay the same and bind the delegates to vote for Romney, at least on the first round of balloting.
"For us, as a Republican Party, to consider unbinding the delegation from that obligation, from that expectation, is a bit inappropriate, very inappropriate, like changing the rules in the middle of the game," said Nelson. "I believe we ought to honor the will of the state of Utah by casting those 36 votes for Mitt Romney."
But, if McCain is unable to lock up the nomination on the first ballot, the delegates would be free to support anyone. That could open the door for Romney, says Nelson, although he would likely vote for Paul.
Stan Lockhart, chairman of the Utah Republican Party, said it will be up to delegates to decide whether they should release the Romney delegates, and the party won't take sides.
"There is a bylaw change that has been proposed. Clearly it is designed to comply with the request of the candidate who got over 90 percent for president in the state of Utah," said Lockhart, who doesn't anticipate any of the turmoil that plagued the Nevada convention.
"I believe we will have a convention where it is orderly, where it is fair and impartial to all concerned, and where the delegates get to make choices on how to best move the Republican Party forward," he said.

[MMolloy]

Any predictions about media coverage out of Utah this weekend?

And, what a surprise, "Steve Parent" (without the "Dr.") is quoted as the source for RP supporters-

QUESTION: If unbinding Romney's delegates in Utah is "changing the rules in the middle of the game", then isn't that logic equally true at the RNC?

Which way will RP delegates vote today, to keep national delegates bound or to unbind them from Romney?

http://www.sltrib.com/ci_9211438

Ron Paul supporters hoping to infiltrate Utah delegation
By Robert Gehrke
The Salt Lake Tribune

Salt Lake Tribune
Article Last Updated:05/09/2008 08:03:59 PM MDT
Posted: 8:04 PM- The Ron Paul Revolution will not go quietly.
As they have done in Nevada, Minnesota and elsewhere, a number of Utah Ron Paul backers are trying to get elected Saturday as delegates to the Republican National Convention where, under a proposed rule change, they could be free to vote for whomever they want.
Under existing party rules, the 36 Utah delegates to the convention are obligated to vote for Mitt Romney, who won the state GOP primary with 90 percent of the vote.
But on Saturday, the state party will consider changing its rules to release the delegates and let them vote for whom they see fit.
The proposed bylaws change comes in response to a request from Romney, after he dropped out of the race, to release his bound delegates.
"I strongly encourage all released and uncommitted delegates to cast their votes for Senator John McCain at the convention," Romney wrote in a letter to the state party.
In essence, it makes the state's Republican primary in February meaningless, leaving the decision to the elected delegates.
That could free the delegates to support whomever they want at the Republican National Convention in St. Paul, Minn., in September - a point not lost on Paul supporters.
On blogs and in e-mails, Paul backers have spread a strategy aimed at getting Paul supporters elected as delegates in order to keep McCain from getting enough delegate support to clinch the nomination. That could force a convention fight, they argue, and give Paul a path - albeit a contorted one - to win the nomination.
"We will try to force a brokered convention - there is no way around it," writes Steve Parent on The Daily Paul blog.
Last month, the Nevada GOP convention ended in chaos, as Paul supporters were poised to be elected to a majority of the 31 state delegate slots before party leaders abruptly adjourned the gathering without picking the national delegates. Paul supporters cried foul and shouted that the process was rigged.
In Utah, about 100 people have filed to run for national delegate, many of them for the first time, and many of them professed Paul supporters.
The McCain campaign declined to comment, but this week state delegates received a recorded phone message from Romney urging them to vote for a slate of endorsed McCain delegates. The campaign also will have local and national political operatives working the convention Saturday.
Lowell Nelson, a Paul supporter running for national delegate, said he doesn't anticipate chaos erupting Saturday, or going to St. Paul to vote for Paul. He just wants to see the rules stay the same and bind the delegates to vote for Romney, at least on the first round of balloting.
"For us, as a Republican Party, to consider unbinding the delegation from that obligation, from that expectation, is a bit inappropriate, very inappropriate, like changing the rules in the middle of the game," said Nelson. "I believe we ought to honor the will of the state of Utah by casting those 36 votes for Mitt Romney."
But, if McCain is unable to lock up the nomination on the first ballot, the delegates would be free to support anyone. That could open the door for Romney, says Nelson, although he would likely vote for Paul.
Stan Lockhart, chairman of the Utah Republican Party, said it will be up to delegates to decide whether they should release the Romney delegates, and the party won't take sides.
"There is a bylaw change that has been proposed. Clearly it is designed to comply with the request of the candidate who got over 90 percent for president in the state of Utah," said Lockhart, who doesn't anticipate any of the turmoil that plagued the Nevada convention.
"I believe we will have a convention where it is orderly, where it is fair and impartial to all concerned, and where the delegates get to make choices on how to best move the Republican Party forward," he said.

Maybe someone should call the Salt Lake Tribune and ask them if they can verify who is this Steve Parent?

It seems to me that there is some confussion on multiple threads... are people against getting delegates or just against them trying to vote to unbind themselves?

Michael P. Molloy Atl Delegate CD-1 PA

[acroso]

HELPFUL!

The point is to get delegates. DUH

[dude58677]

This post is still going on?


"You cannot be serious" John McEnroe

[crazyfacedjenkins]

This post is still going on?


"You cannot be serious" John McEnroe

Don't worry, it's just a Ron Paul bot.

[newyearsrevolution08]

lol, and this is why the grassroots can handle anything. We get all the bitching and moaning done in here and then have our serious faces on on the battle field right? lol

o well either way

fight!

[Sally08]

Maybe someone should call the Salt Lake Tribune and ask them if they can verify who is this Steve Parent?

It seems to me that there is some confussion on multiple threads... are people against getting delegates or just against them trying to vote to unbind themselves?

Michael P. Molloy Atl Delegate CD-1 PA

It's not learning how to become a delegate (at any level), it's about what those *national* delegates intend to do in September.

Will delegates who were elected in a state that binds them for McCain for the first round at the RNC *defy* their state rules and vote for RP in the first round and get ejected from the convention for a media circus?

And given the many public posts on RPF and Daily Paul about the "stealth campaign" and the intended "coup" at the RNC, GOP leadership at the state level has now started blocking/challenging RP delegates entirely.

It is highly unlikely that RP will be allowed to speak at the RNC, now, as well. It will also be interesting to see if *any* RP delegates are recognized at the RNC-

Regarding "Dr. Steve Parent's" identity, take a look at the current thread:
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=137003

Do note that he is currently "banned" on RPF, as well.

For the record, I suspect that any college debate team could have been assigned the "delegate" issue and could have created hand-outs and a website with pros/cons of various scenarios in 15-20 hours of research.

The fact that others relied on *someone else* for that information, with minimal to no verification as to the accuracy of the information *for their state* , says a lot about those people and whether or not they "think for themselves".

[jjockers]

In my experience...

In regards to RP's good name being tarred - I've seen this first hand on several occasions. In helping out Lawson's campaign, I hate feeling like I can't mention Ron Paul for fear of quick, media-biased judgment. I know BJ feels this as well, as he makes a point of this very labeling media-driven reaction on his website.

That being said, BJ's main opponent campaigned strongly (and almost solely) on the fact that BJ is and was an active Ron Paul supporter and "Ron Paul Republican". This was NOT successful, as evidenced by 71% of the voters picking Lawson. Thus, despite the tarring of Dr. Paul's name (for whatever reasons), we can still continue the fight by supporting local candidates with similar ideologies.

We will have to work our way up through the GOP, so alienating them as they have us is not something I would recommend. That does seem to be a mode on the forums, though.

The GOP cannot last as it stands - there is little to no active support amongst the youth. Our revolution has the youth and energy to retake the party, but alienating those currently in power just to appease our impatient egos is irresponsible.