RP Coalition Railroaded At Oklahoma State Convention

[IPSecure]

Ron Paul supporters rock the boat at Oklahoma GOP Convention
Holly Shelves
May 3, 2008
http://www.coupbymemo.com/convention
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/47983

The Oklahoma Republican Party held its state convention in Tulsa today, to elect delegates to the national convention, presidential electors and committee members to the Republican National Committee.

It was immediately clear that a coalition of Ron Paul supporters and John McCain opponents had a slight majority when the folks running the show wouldn’t allow a “roll-call vote” (basically a head-count) to settle a very close vote for who would be convention chairman of the day. It was by no means clear who won the yea-or-nay vote, and calls for a roll-call vote were denied. They would never explain why, and I regret that they were allowed to get away with that. This convention may have gone very differently otherwise.

There seemed to be quite a bit of stalling on the part of the convention leadership, and at about noon there was a motion to break for lunch (incidentally, this motion was made by a particularly vile Republican I know from past experience).

An hour and a half later, the convention reconvened with about 500 more delegates in attendance than before we left for lunch. I suspect that there was a large group of scared McCainiacs (there wasn’t much of a reason to be too scared, since Oklahoma delegates have no choice but to support McCain) who were busily calling everyone they could think of to come counter the Paul supporters. It’s interesting that so many delegates registered during this time, since registration had ended three hours earlier, and some people were turned away for showing up too late. I nearly didn’t get in myself. I was waiting in line to check in, when an official-looking guy stood in front of me and said they were cutting the line off there because it was getting too late. It was 9:00 am at this time. There were about twenty or thirty people behind me who probably went home, but two nice people allowed my convention-buddy and I to cut in front of them further down the line.

So it’s 1:30 pm, we’re back from lunch, and there are 50% more delegates. A heated and rowdy debate (there was rowdiness on both sides to be sure) ensued over whether the Executive Committee’s hand-picked slate of delegates ought to be voted for over the Ron Paul coalition’s alternate slate. We delegates voted by way of secret ballots, and the Executive Committee’s slate won by—you guessed it—about 500 votes.

Many of the delegates on the winning slate did not even attend their Executive Committee interviews, and many had not been in the process as delegates until this point. As far as I could tell, it was nepotism that guided the committee’s selections.

Ron Paul supporters did have one victory: the candidate they backed for National Committeeman won the majority of the delegates’ votes.

[Bruno]

This has been mentioned before, and excuse my ignorance if I am incorrect, but this seems to be another example of why a good strategy would be to immediately call for a vote of a new chair.

[MozoVote]

Every convention that I've attended had a credentials report that sealed the number of delgates at a specific number. How the heck can they add 500 delegates in the midst of the convention?

[RPTXState]

Every convention that I've attended had a credentials report that sealed the number of delgates at a specific number. How the heck can they add 500 delegates in the midst of the convention?

1. Check rules
2. Check rules again
3. Gather evidence
4. Challenge to Natl. Party
5. ?????
6. Profit

[leonster]

This has been mentioned before, and excuse my ignorance if I am incorrect, but this seems to be another example of why a good strategy would be to immediately call for a vote of a new chair.

Seconded.

[Join The Paul Side]

The Chairman is most likely always going to be on 'their' side. It's up to the Delegates to keep the Chair in check. Know the rules thoroughly and use them against 'em. When they start breaking or ignoring the rules call them out on it. If they continue to break or ignore the rules then attempt to vote the Chair out. IF that doesn't work and we feel that they are cheating us then hold a rump convention and make a challenge to the Republican National Party.

Another thing I've noticed is in the Chairmen of the Nevada Convention, Oklahoma Convention, and Maine Convention, intentionally stalled time in which they've used to screw us at the end. We need a plan for this to keep things moving along and not give them the time to find a way to steal it from us. We need to find ways to identify if we have a majority of people at these conventions so we know if we can take over the convention and keep things flowing. Perhaps have our Delegates wear flag pins or something.

We need an 'Offical Strategy' which specifies a protocol to follow when Chairmen get out of order. Or when they try to cheat (like sneaking in 500 people during lunch). This 'Offical Strategy' should be given to our Delegates, Meet Up groups, and be stickied to this forum so that our people are prepared for battle at these state conventions.

We have to remember that we are the new face of Conservatism in the Republican Party. When we attend these state conventions we need to attend as Conservatives, not boasters of Ron Paul. I think we can accomplish much more this way. A Conservative may be able to more easily convert a McCain Supporter to our platform than a Ron Paul Supporter trying to get a McCain Supporter to support Ron Paul. Once they support our platform they will grow to support Ron on their own. It can't be forced on them. But they may vote for Ron in protest of the liberal McCain.

Just a few ideas. Do with them what you will.

:cool:

[Join The Paul Side]

bump

[MozoVote]

We need an 'Offical Strategy' which specifies a protocol to follow when Chairmen get out of order. Or when they try to cheat (like sneaking in 500 people during lunch).

The sign-in table usually is just 3 to 5 people. Have several RP supports hover at that table and write down the name of each person the sign-in committee gives a badge to. You won't have a credentialed list, but it would be close.

Then you can "out" people who were added after the sign-in closes. You also have a name list (although no addresses) which could help calling for a new convention in the event of a Nevada style recess.

[SteveMartin]

Another thing I've noticed is in the Chairmen of the Nevada Convention, Oklahoma Convention, and Maine Convention, intentionally stalled time in which they've used to screw us at the end.

Not the case in Maine. Our chair was quite fair, I thought, though she was obviously tightly inter-twined with the big shots at the table on stage who advised here quite a bit more than I would have expected from a seasoned lawyer and parliamentarian.

[freedom-maniac]

Those tyrants...

[lynnf]

too bad there wasn't a master of Robert's Rules there, the decision of the chair can be overruled by the floor....

lynn

[speciallyblend]

SCREW THE GOP,if they think these tactics are gonna win them my vote in general election. Then they have already lost the general election.

[rodo1776]

RP Coalition Railroaded At Oklahoma State Convention

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ron Paul supporters rock the boat at Oklahoma GOP Convention
Holly Shelves
May 3, 2008
http://www.coupbymemo.com/convention
http://www.dailypaul.com/node/47983

The Oklahoma Republican Party held its state convention in Tulsa today, to elect delegates to the national convention, presidential electors and committee members to the Republican National Committee.

It was immediately clear that a coalition of Ron Paul supporters and John McCain opponents had a slight majority when the folks running the show would’t allow a “roll-call vote” (basically a head-count) to settle a very close vote for who would be convention chairman of the day. It was by no means clear who won the yea-or-nay vote, and calls for a roll-call vote were denied. They would never explain why, and I regret that they were allowed to get away with that. This convention may have gone very differently otherwise.

There seemed to be quite a bit of stalling on the part of the convention leadership, and at about noon there was a motion to break for lunch (incidentally, this motion was made by a particularly vile Republican I know from past experience).

An hour and a half later, the convention reconvened with about 500 more delegates in attendance than before we left for lunch. I suspect that there was a large group of scared McCainiacs (there wasn’t much of a reason to be too scared, since Oklahoma delegates have no choice but to support McCain) who were busily calling everyone they could think of to come counter the Paul supporters. It’s interesting that so many delegates registered during this time, since registration had ended three hours earlier, and some people were turned away for showing up too late. I nearly didn’t get in myself. I was waiting in line to check in, when an official-looking guy stood in front of me and said they were cutting the line off there because it was getting too late. It was 9:00 am at this time. There were about twenty or thirty people behind me who probably went home, but two nice people allowed my convention-buddy and I to cut in front of them further down the line.

So it’s 1:30 pm, we’re back from lunch, and there are 50% more delegates. A heated and rowdy debate (there was rowdiness on both sides to be sure) ensued over whether the Executive Committee’s hand-picked slate of delegates ought to be voted for over the Ron Paul coalition’s alternate slate. We delegates voted by way of secret ballots, and the Executive Committee’s slate won by—you guessed it—about 500 votes.

Many of the delegates on the winning slate did not even attend their Executive Committee interviews, and many had not been in the process as delegates until this point. As far as I could tell, it was nepotism that guided the committee’s selections.

Ron Paul supporters did have one victory: the candidate they backed for National Committeeman won the majority of the delegates’ votes.


IPsecure can you elaborate on this part about the GOP National Committeeman that won that was backed by RP delegates?
Was this person a true RP supporter or just that you had to choose the lesser of two evils type thing?
In other words are you saying that a TRUE RP supporter won the National Committeeman slot for your state?

Thanks

[IPSecure]

IPsecure can you elaborate on this part about the GOP National Committeeman that won that was backed by RP delegates?
Was this person a true RP supporter or just that you had to choose the lesser of two evils type thing?
In other words are you saying that a TRUE RP supporter won the National Committeeman slot for your state?

Thanks


Good questions, but not my state, just passing on info as I find it.


Oklahoma National Committeeman debate

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_2hYjNcEc2I

Will let you know as I find out...

[BKom]

Once the credentials report is finalized, there should be no delegates added. Check the rules to see when a quorum is finalized. It's usually there.

And to keep the chair on track, just keep calling for the orders of the day.

[runderwo]

As far as I know, this allegation is false. I believe the article writer misunderstood the apportionment of the votes. The totals shown on the projector were APPORTIONED totals, meaning that even though around 1000 delegates were present, up to 1600 votes could have been cast.

James Dunn is not a Ron Paul supporter, he voted for Mike Huckabee. However, he very much dislikes John McCain. Suffice it to say that he is a good man with a good heart, and built bridges between us and the party establishment on numerous occasions, when the establishment was obstructing or corraling us.

His opponent, on the other hand, continued to draw the analogy that we were "Log Cabin Republicans", and called for party unity (i.e., out with the factions), and as such landed on his ear Saturday by a margin of 9 votes out of around 1600.

[AxXiom]

What exactly is a "log cabin republican"? Is that a bad thing? I like Log Cabins, personally.

While I am at it-what is your opinion of "paleo-republicans" I had someone say I was-I think it was intended as a compliment but all I could think of was an old cave-man Republican.

I hope my feeble attempt at humor made you smile.
(I really don't know about the Log Cabin thing)

:)
AxXiom

[JustBcuz]

What exactly is a "log cabin republican"? Is that a bad thing? I like Log Cabins, personally.

While I am at it-what is your opinion of "paleo-republicans" I had someone say I was-I think it was intended as a compliment but all I could think of was an old cave-man Republican.

I hope my feeble attempt at humor made you smile.
(I really don't know about the Log Cabin thing)

:)
AxXiom

The Log Cabin Republicans are homosexual Republicans.

[Rangeley]

Not the case in Maine. Our chair was quite fair, I thought, though she was obviously tightly inter-twined with the big shots at the table on stage who advised here quite a bit more than I would have expected from a seasoned lawyer and parliamentarian.
There was some stalling though. Peter Mills introduced the motion to let the committee handle the platform and take it from the floor entirely, and the motion was voted on three times before we finally moved on... to a motion that would suspend the rules, end debate and a reading of the amendments, letting us just vote on them. After that got voted down, so much time was wasted that the time for debate had ended, and we automatically could only have the amendments be read and voted on, with no debate.

[Alawn]

His opponent, on the other hand, continued to draw the analogy that we were "Log Cabin Republicans", and called for party unity (i.e., out with the factions), and as such landed on his ear Saturday by a margin of 9 votes out of around 1600.

So the guy told everyone at the convention that all the Ron Paul supporters are gay???? What the heck is wrong with this guy?

(Log Cabin Republicans is an organization for gay republicans)

[runderwo]

So the guy told everyone at the convention that all the Ron Paul supporters are gay???? What the heck is wrong with this guy?

No, he drew that analogy at a conference a few weeks before the convention (it's on Youtube)


(Log Cabin Republicans is an organization for gay republicans)

No, it's for Republican proponents and sympathizers of the gay agenda (which is a big government agenda)

[Alawn]

I'm sure the point was to turn off the religious republicans by comparing us to gays.

[acptulsa]

I didn't see any sign that the room was significantly more full after lunch than before. The room was full. They did go to some lengths to drag enough people in to outnumber us. I also think we weren't railroaded, though as I mentioned in another thread they used our refusal to be railroaded to their advantage for a while--they poisoned the wells against us by telling people we'd use delaying tactics. So, we were booed for refusing to be railroaded until people figured out that all we were doing is asking for debate. They softened up toward us at that point.

We expected the chairman to be very unfair toward us, but in fact he didn't do a bad job. P.S. There was some bad record keeping over delegates and some of us didn't have printed badges available for us. We were issued hand printed badges and there was some talk of not letting us vote. Where I was on the floor, however, everyone was allowed to vote who had a right to. Just goes to show that even if you have all you i's dotted and your t's crossed, they'll push the envelope where they can.

Basically, we needed more liberty minded people to go to the trouble to show up. That would have fixed everything. We operated under the name "Liberty Values Coalition" and we may well continue to do so for some time. We ain't done!

Our arrival hasn't been completely unwelcome. There are a few liberty minded Republicans in this state who have been active in the GOP for years sure are glad to see us. We can't get their hopes up and then abandon them!

[DocGrimes]

I have to agree with acptulsa's assessment from what I experienced. Sure there were some questionable moments but they were usually called out and overall things were handled fairly (partly because folks stuck to their guns).

Was the convention railroaded? Yes, to a degree but mostly that degree was that we simply did not have the numbers to overcome the establishment.

Oh, certainly the waters were poisoned a bit against us. I heard 'oh, your one of those Ron Paul supporters' type derision on several occasions, but I also experienced welcome from others as well.

Initially our county chair (not a Paul supporter) was telling he would appreciate us supporting the Liberty Values slate. He was telling us so after us voting our own way at the district convention :) But he and those of my county are very warm and good folks and have welcomed us. Was even told how we need some new 'rebels' as the older ones are fading.

But though things did not go perfectly for us I do not see it as a real loss. We that are new to being involved I believe learned a great deal. Armed with just a bit of experience just wait and see what our continued participation and growth will accomplish. It is alsonot irrelevant that we had at least 1/3 of the delegates there. Great work everyone and thanks for participating.

As others have stated many times though the way forward is to bring people together based on principles and not names. We certainly should continue to support Ron in his efforts as he will surely continue to support ours. It seems however that the way forward is to push our values and principles and not the Ron Paul name. Do not mistake me, I am not saying hide that we agree and support/ed Ron Paul only that this is not about him as he says himself.

We have a wonderful beginning for a new and productive coalition of liberty minded folk, let us continue our march.

[bucfish]

"Those who make a peaceful revolution impossible, make a armed one inevitable." JFK

[Truth Warrior]

Same song, same tune and lyrics. :rolleyes: Repeated how many times now, this season? Getting pretty bored and tired of it all now....... again. I gotta admire the continued surprise, naiveté, persistence and patience of the "faithful" statists though. :D

( Hint: The "game" is rigged. )