Brainstorming: pro-McCain resolutions

[Bradley in DC]

Ok, hear me out before throwing tomatoes.

In some states (not any where I've ever organized for a presidential campaign), you have conventions with resolutions. Now, admitting that I'm not sure about this, but for the sake of brainstorming, would it help our delegates or delegate candidates or caucus goers or whoever we are at that point if WE offered pro-McCain (and anti-Bush) resolutions defending where McCain gets it right and Bush gets it wrong?

Ok, here's how this happened in my head....I had dinner tonight with a lot of distant cousins in Maryland because another distant cousin and her family came up from Georgia. My first cousin and her husband came from Virginia. Many of them work for labor unions (AFL-CIO, AFSME or something, etc.), and as far as I know, I was the only Republican there. My cousin's husband knows me and made a joke, "Well, I'm sure you don't like McCain." After I wiped the sneer off of my face, he asked if I like McCain better than the probable Ds.

We got to ribbing each other, and he asked what I don't like about McCain. I started to answer and then just switched, "Well, this is what I DO like about McCain: his position on torture and the Military Commissions Act [oh, and I forgot to add Quantanamo] and if I think of anything else, I'll let you know." And we all had a good laugh.

So, what I'm getting at is that I wonder (no idea really) if it would be useful for OUR people to put forth resolutions commending McCain on "military and veterans' issues" such as torture, the Military Commissions Act, etc, where he gets it right (and Bush gets it wrong), to push the platform our way in these areas and, hopefully, build us up some goodwill. Again, just brainstorming.

[Kotin]

it sure could help us.

we just have to make it clear that we are here for true conservatism and republicanism not soley for Ron Paul.

we are not infiltrators or saboteurs. we are real party faithfuls.

[liberteebell]

I dunno...I can think of next to nothing on which I agree with mcwar.

I noticed at our district convention today and at my city committee mass meeting that the things that got the loudest applause was conservative principles rather than the candidates: liberty, freedom, low taxes, limited government, strong national defense, and of course, pro-life.

I think it's best to use the stated principles as a bridge to show how far off the reservation nearly all of the republicans at every level have become. It IS slowly but surely starting to sink in that Big Government, open borders jorge boosh and his congressional syncophants have done a lot of damage to the party. I overheard a couple of old-timers today talking about how they don't want more of that. IMHO, if we keep up the drumbeat about principles, we're going to get somewhere. Leave the personalities out of it.

They want unity? Then we should unite behind principles, not a person.

[DrAmy31415]

I think I'll sleep on it and let you know. I loathe McCain, so it's hard to be rational about him--but there was a point in time that I actually thought he was okay.

[Kotin]

I think I'll sleep on it and let you know. I loathe McCain, so it's hard to be rational about him--but there was a point in time that I actually thought he was okay.

gah, seems like everyone is a doctor these days.


Dr.Steve, Dr.yongrel, and now Dr.Amy?!


;)

[Danke]

gah, seems like everyone is a doctor these days.


Dr.Steve, Dr.yongrel, and now Dr.Amy?!


;)

Is there a Dr. of Love in the house?

[amy31416]

Is there a Dr. of Love in the house?

Oooh, I hope so. If there isn't a Dr. of Love, I hope there's at least a gangster of love.

[Kotin]

Is there a Dr. of Love in the house?

uhh yeah...


Dr.Ron Paul is the love doctor of course.;)

[Dave39168]

I think this could be a good idea. Don't compromise on anything (We must keep our integrity), but try to take a few issues that we can support (like the anti-advanced interrogation tactics) and help the McCain people see that we are rational thinkers and not loons.

Its always good to find some common ground with someone before you tell them they are wrong.

[mdh]

So, what I'm getting at is that I wonder (no idea really) if it would be useful for OUR people to put forth resolutions commending McCain on "military and veterans' issues" such as torture, the Military Commissions Act, etc, where he gets it right (and Bush gets it wrong), to push the platform our way in these areas and, hopefully, build us up some goodwill. Again, just brainstorming.

Woah there.

McCain watered down the bill in the senate that would have forced the government to investigate and attempt to bring home a lot of missing-presumed-dead folks left in Asia from the Vietnam era (it's believed that even today over 100 US military servicemen are still alive in Asian prison camps.) Instead of doing that, the bill only succeeded in making it harder for the DoD to declare someone presumed dead. The guys left behind are still there.

He also (recently, in fact) helped shut down a bill that would've signifigantly bolstered the GI Bill to provide education to soldiers after completing their tours of duty.

If we're going to find something to like about McCain, it ain't gonna be his record on veterans affairs.

[Bradley in DC]

Woah there.

McCain watered down the bill in the senate that would have forced the government to investigate and attempt to bring home a lot of missing-presumed-dead folks left in Asia from the Vietnam era (it's believed that even today over 100 US military servicemen are still alive in Asian prison camps.) Instead of doing that, the bill only succeeded in making it harder for the DoD to declare someone presumed dead. The guys left behind are still there.

He also (recently, in fact) helped shut down a bill that would've signifigantly bolstered the GI Bill to provide education to soldiers after completing their tours of duty.

If we're going to find something to like about McCain, it ain't gonna be his record on veterans affairs.

Matt, Matt, Matt,

This is REPUBLICAN primary politics. :o Perception is half the battle, and we as a movement need help fixing how we're perceived, IMHO. :(

Veterans and their families are a big part of the target population for us (or should have been by the campaign, but that's another story). You're missing the strategery, I think.

I'm suggesting we brainstorm about a few things:

one, put forth resolutions in support of McCain's positions where we agree with him (maybe even quote him in our defense, etc.), such as torture and the Military Commissions Act changes.
two, we need to "package" them somehow for maximum effect ;)
ergo, pull the few things we can together and package them to hit a target audience we've been missing (which, I hope, would also assuage fears that we're all a bunch of anti-war hippies or something masquerading as Republicans)


I am NOT arguing McCain is good on all military and veterans issues, no.

[ItsTime]

shouldnt "pro-McCain" resolutions BE CONSERVATIVE? That is if McCain were a conservative...

[Bradley in DC]

shouldnt "pro-McCain" resolutions BE CONSERVATIVE? That is if McCain were a conservative...

Didn't you read my explanation about perception? :p

[angelatc]

I think it is a good idea. The torture issue might be touchy because McCain just voted to support the practice.

[ItsTime]

I just came back to edit my comment, Im not awake yet :D


Didn't you read my explanation about perception? :p

[Bradley in DC]

I think it is a good idea. The torture issue might be touchy because McCain just voted to support the practice.

Ok, first we need to figure out IF it's a good idea--or at least WHEN it would be.

THEN, we need to help people and WHAT they might say. Again, we had our primary and are finished here, so just trying to help you caucus goers with your crazy antics. :cool:

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

one, put forth resolutions in support of McCain's positions where we agree with him (maybe even quote him in our defense, etc.), such as torture and the Military Commissions Act changes.
two, we need to "package" them somehow for maximum effect ;)

I think the only way most Paul supporters could go along with this is if McCain is also condemned at the same time.

You can't expect people to stand up and publicly profess their undying love for McCain's pinky finger without saying anything about the rest of him. So, I say it has to be postitive/negative if at all.

[Aratus]

g.w bush and j.mccain don't inately see eye to eye most often...
mccain's people know about opinion polls and bush's negatives...
highlighting the differences also has the candidate doing clarifiers...
Bardley in D.C is seeking to pull at mccain supporters who fence sit!!
he also is seeking out common ground with the brainier mccain people.

[lynnf]

Ok, hear me out before throwing tomatoes.

...


So, what I'm getting at is that I wonder (no idea really) if it would be useful for OUR people to put forth resolutions commending McCain on "military and veterans' issues" such as torture, the Military Commissions Act, etc, where he gets it right (and Bush gets it wrong), to push the platform our way in these areas and, hopefully, build us up some goodwill. Again, just brainstorming.

don't think it can hurt much other than possibly wasting time and confusing our own,
but I don't think anything will be remembered 2 years from now (2010 primaries) and especially 4 years from now (2012 presidential) other than that we WEREN'T with the McCainiacs.

edit: and when McCain loses, they will blame us for it - not being "unified"

lynn

[Aratus]

jeb wants a go at it in 2012... i am serious.

mccain will perhaps not run if he looses now...

if you can pull mccain's actual support away

from jeb bush, and these might be people who

may have toyed with voting for ross perot, then

you make the next bush brother really work at it...

[MMolloy]

Woah there.

McCain watered down the bill in the senate that would have forced the government to investigate and attempt to bring home a lot of missing-presumed-dead folks left in Asia from the Vietnam era (it's believed that even today over 100 US military servicemen are still alive in Asian prison camps.) Instead of doing that, the bill only succeeded in making it harder for the DoD to declare someone presumed dead. The guys left behind are still there.

He also (recently, in fact) helped shut down a bill that would've signifigantly bolstered the GI Bill to provide education to soldiers after completing their tours of duty.

If we're going to find something to like about McCain, it ain't gonna be his record on veterans affairs.

AMEN! I watched those POW/MIA hearings in '91/'92 and I've been badmouthing McCain ever since. He was a disgrace. The way he treated those family members, you would think they were all guilty of treason and should've been shoot... according to McCain's recuring paranoid delusion

[mdh]

Matt, Matt, Matt,

This is REPUBLICAN primary politics. :o Perception is half the battle, and we as a movement need help fixing how we're perceived, IMHO. :(

Veterans and their families are a big part of the target population for us (or should have been by the campaign, but that's another story). You're missing the strategery, I think.

I am NOT arguing McCain is good on all military and veterans issues, no.

I understand your point regarding perceptions, but those winds do (and, I very firmly believe, will in this case) change at the drop of a hat. Veterans affairs are a well-perceived issue for McCain with a lot of people now, but his record sets it up as his biggest liability. Once the Dems are done, he's going to get owned on it, swiftboat-style. MoveOn.org is already fundraising for this very purpose. Once that happens, we've associated ourselves with that liability, and basically get outted for not doing our homework before promoting something. I don't think that's the reputation we want to buy ourselves.

As far as packaging something to make us look less like a bunch of anti-war hippies, how about doing what Dr. Paul does, and supporting everything and anything that benefits service men and women, from better healthcare to better armament to improvements to the GI Bill, etc. I know it doesn't touch on McCain at all, but I think it's a tough one for anyone to argue with, and the fact is we do wholeheartedly support our troops, which is why we want to bring them home. :)

I'm not missing the strategy at all - the fundraising totals from active military should've been a huge propaganda piece, for one. I just have concerns about putting our names on something that's going to turn into a huge liability in just a few months. Better we find something that isn't.

[Bradley in DC]

I'm not missing the strategy at all - the fundraising totals from active military should've been a huge propaganda piece, for one. I just have concerns about putting our names on something that's going to turn into a huge liability in just a few months. Better we find something that isn't.

But what I suggested would not be a liability--you changed it. I said we pick issues where we agree with them, etc. ;) You then picked issues where we don't. :p

[angelatc]

Ok, first we need to figure out IF it's a good idea--or at least WHEN it would be.

THEN, we need to help people and WHAT they might say. Again, we had our primary and are finished here, so just trying to help you caucus goers with your crazy antics. :cool:

Economic issues. McCain does a good job at pretending he is very conservative with the economy.

Health care maybe. I think he is anti-federal plan.

[yongrel]

This would be the politically savvy thing to do.

Ron Paul supporters aren't known for their political savvy.