Concerning the name of our movement

[bickelj]

Hi all,

A topic that I think hasn't been suitably addressed in my mind: the name or brand of our movement going forward.

Most of us are content to say it's the message, not the man. People think we're nuts for being involved because we can't get Ron Paul elected and they wonder why we're still trying. It would be prudent to come up with a meaningful name for after the convention in September.

I propose "The Liberty Faction"

"teh r3VOLution" is too nerdy.
"The Revolution" is too violent and vague for our goals.
"The non-violent Revolution" is too cumbersome.
"The Liberty Caucus" confuses us with the Republican Liberty Caucus.
We could join the RLC, but there's no consensus, not even a majority calling for this (and we're obviously our own group, maybe with some overlap).

We're into liberty, and I learned a new similar word "manumission" but again too vague since I didn't even know what that word meant. That kicks out "Manumission Caucus."

My proposal derives from Federalist 10, where Publius suggests that the cure for faction is more factions:

"The influence of factious leaders may kindle a flame within their particular States, but will be unable to spread a general conflagration through the other States. A religious sect may degenerate into a political faction in a part of the Confederacy; but the variety of sects dispersed over the entire face of it must secure the national councils against any danger from that source. A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire State."

There's nothing in the word "faction" that implies malice or violence, except its association with some radical groups in the 60s and 70s. But it does sound a little more extreme than a caucus, which is fine by me.

I also did some checks to see if this name is in use by any particular group, and it doesn't appear to be. I did find a couple references to a Liberty Faction or Independence Party being a crew at the first couple of congresses preceding the American Revolution.

Let me know your thoughts.

Jesse

[Truth Warrior]

Jesse --

I simply and strongly recommend, "libertarian".

Thanks! :)

[bickelj]

The word "libertarian" has been found to incite a great deal of annoyance when working within the GOP. I haven't witnessed it first hand, but some members in Georgia mentioned that discussion of the word may have prevented a Ron Paul delegation from a congressional district there.

I recognize that many members of the revolution are now actively working outside the GOP, thus the need to not restrict it to GOP members. I personally am working within the GOP and think it is the best avenue for progress, thus the need to prevent abhorrence of our movement by using misunderstood terms. We are obviously our own movement, Ron Paul inspired, and not entirely bound to the Republican party, not bound to the Libertarian party, Constitution, Green, not all Independents, and so forth. This is why I think we should use words that people understand, but we should also make the branding unique.

Liberty Faction meets these criteria, unless I'm ignorant of some horrible stigma concerning the word faction.

[Truth Warrior]

The word "libertarian" has been found to incite a great deal of annoyance when working within the GOP. I haven't witnessed it first hand, but some members in Georgia mentioned that discussion of the word may have prevented a Ron Paul delegation from a congressional district there.

I recognize that many members of the revolution are now actively working outside the GOP, thus the need to not restrict it to GOP members. I personally am working within the GOP and think it is the best avenue for progress, thus the need to prevent abhorrence of our movement by using misunderstood terms. We are obviously our own movement, Ron Paul inspired, and not entirely bound to the Republican party, not bound to the Libertarian party, Constitution, Green, not all Independents, and so forth. This is why I think we should use words that people understand, but we should also make the branding unique.

Liberty Faction meets these criteria, unless I'm ignorant of some horrible stigma concerning the word faction.
Ahh, I see. You're not quite ready yet for "libertarian". I respectfully withdraw my recommendation. :)

[Conza88]

Why does it need a name?

We get branded anyway by the MSM...

So WHAT is our movement?
It is the Freedom movement. It is the Liberty movement.

nuff said.

[bickelj]

Ahh, I see. You're not quite ready yet for "libertarian". I respectfully withdraw my recommendation. :)

If it were up to me, we would be called "Republicans." Are you ready for that? I accept the libertarian label, the Republican label, the republican label, the Ron Paul wacko label, and a host of other labels. The point is, these words already have meanings and we turn people off when we have conversations about the word libertarian.

Example conversation.
Paulista: I will vote for Ron Paul.
Neocon: Isn't he a Libertarian?
Paulista: Yes, and I'm libertarian too!
Neocon: Why are you at a Republican event?
Paulista: Oh, well there's a difference between big L and...
Neocon: [eyes glaze over and ears turn off]

[Truth Warrior]

If it were up to me, we would be called "Republicans." Are you ready for that? I accept the libertarian label, the Republican label, the republican label, the Ron Paul wacko label, and a host of other labels. The point is, these words already have meanings and we turn people off when we have conversations about the word libertarian.

Example conversation.
Paulista: I will vote for Ron Paul.
Neocon: Isn't he a Libertarian?
Paulista: Yes, and I'm libertarian too!
Neocon: Why are you at a Republican event?
Paulista: Oh, well there's a difference between big L and...
Neocon: [eyes glaze over and ears turn off]

Been there, done that. That's really how and why I became "libertarian".

Take the red pill.

Thanks! :)

[bickelj]

Why does it need a name?

Why does a child need a name? If we want to make sure we're as fractured as possible and unable to identify ourselves, I guess we don't need a name. I was thinking maybe there are still people who believe in organizations. If we were to start a local organization, what would we call it? I've already seen some people naming their meetups "___ County Liberty Caucus" which to me confuses it with the Liberty Caucus. I'd be OK with the Liberty Movement or Freedom Movement, those sound good too.

It would be nice if we could actually talk about what we are calling ourselves. This way we can identify our group unambiguously to people, even 20 years from now.

[pcosmar]

If it were up to me, we would be called "Republicans." Are you ready for that? I accept the libertarian label, the Republican label, the republican label, the Ron Paul wacko label, and a host of other labels. The point is, these words already have meanings and we turn people off when we have conversations about the word libertarian.

Example conversation.
Paulista: I will vote for Ron Paul.
Neocon: Isn't he a Libertarian?
Paulista: Yes, and I'm libertarian too!
Neocon: Why are you at a Republican event?
Paulista: Oh, well there's a difference between big L and...
Neocon: [eyes glaze over and ears turn off]

Well I like Freedom Movement also or the Ron Paul Revolution.
I would suggest the conversation goes more like this,
Example conversation.
Paulista: I will vote for Ron Paul.
Neocon: Isn't he a Libertarian?
Paulista: No. He is a Republican, with libertarian leanings.
Neocon: Why are you at a Republican event?
Paulista: I am supporting the only Conservative in the race.
Neocon: McCain is a conservitive.
ME; Not by any known definition. We are restoring integrity to the process.
Neocon: :confused:

[rancher89]

Well I like Freedom Movement also or the Ron Paul Revolution.
I would suggest the conversation goes more like this,
Example conversation.
Paulista: I will vote for Ron Paul.
Neocon: Isn't he a Libertarian?
Paulista: No. He is a Republican, with libertarian leanings.
Neocon: Why are you at a Republican event?
Paulista: I am supporting the only Conservative in the race.
Neocon: McCain is a conservitive.
ME; Not by any known definition. We are restoring integrity to the process.
Neocon: :confused:

+1776

[Conza88]

seriously this is like going out now, and trying to decide a new name for an apple.
HMM, what shall we call it?

well... its red... err..

Come on seriously. 'WTF do we call ourselves now?'
[Insert the various fruitful names]
Great! Who cares what they are... Why's this even need to be addressed?
We're all not going to suddenly start calling ourselves something different on a collective scale, that ship sailed MONTHS ago.

This is like trying to rename the Chicago Bulls, after they won 5 straight championships. Come on now..


It would be nice if we could actually talk about what we are calling ourselves. This way we can identify our group unambiguously to people, even 20 years from now.

- Do you know who Ron Paul is? What do you think of him?
Their answer = your answer.

[yongrel]

Tim

[acptulsa]

Tim

It's been done.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/8364430@N08/2388244612/

[bickelj]

It's been done.

What do you mean?

[brandon]

Our movement already has a name. "The freedom movement"

[acptulsa]

What do you mean?

You must not be able to see the picture--wrong format. I was giving yongrel a hard time. I posted the picture of the Mighty Sorcerer Tim (John Cleese with a goofy ram's horn hat) from the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Tim's the one that introduced Arthur and the knights to the deadly bunny. So, this thread will probably be hijacked by bunny pictures now. Sorry, people...

[The One]

You must not be able to see the picture--wrong format. I was giving yongrel a hard time. I posted the picture of the Mighty Sorcerer Tim (John Cleese with a goofy ram's horn hat) from the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Tim's the one that introduced Arthur and the knights to the deadly bunny. So, this thread will probably be hijacked by bunny pictures now. Sorry, people...


"There are those who call me......Tim"

[Conza88]

http://diveintomark.org/public/2006/07/you-make-bunny-cry.jpg

Shame on you! :D

[raystone]

Conservative Republicans


not sure the movement needs a name, however, local groups do need some identifier. Our meetup is presenting movie screenings, e.g, Washington, You're Fired, Freedom to Facism... and listing the event in the local paper "community calendar" requires asome type of group name...one that sounds inviting in order to increase turnout and educate more people.



-----

[Kade]

Conservative Republicans


not sure the movement needs a name, however, local groups do need some identifier. Our meetup is presenting movie screenings, e.g, Washington, You're Fired, Freedom to Facism... and listing the event in the local paper "community calendar" requires asome type of group name...one that sounds inviting in order to increase turnout and educate more people.



-----

Haha, that's one way to get me to leave. :(


I'm trying to change the hearts and minds in my own community, my own groups. They are numerous. They could care less what some of you have to say about anything, because they do think themselves socially and intellectually superior. Conservative and Republican as words, are outright insults. Despised and hated. There are already conservatives out there... and republicans. Why copy?

[pcosmar]

You must not be able to see the picture--wrong format. I was giving yongrel a hard time. I posted the picture of the Mighty Sorcerer Tim (John Cleese with a goofy ram's horn hat) from the movie Monty Python and the Holy Grail.

Tim's the one that introduced Arthur and the knights to the deadly bunny. So, this thread will probably be hijacked by bunny pictures now. Sorry, people...

Your wish is my,,,,
http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2008/04/funny-pictures-king-arthur-last-picture-rabbit.jpg?w=500&h=671

[FreeTraveler]

I've always been partial to "Tin Foil Hat Brigade" myself. It always makes me smile to hear that. I can see a time in the not too distant future that having been a past member of the "Tin Foil Hat Brigade" will make you seem like a fortuneteller.

Given the meltdown we're seeing in the economy now, it won't be long until people start to know that the "Tin Foil Hat Brigade" has been right all along. I'm already getting some new respect from friends and relatives. :)

[acptulsa]

Haha, that's one way to get me to leave. :(

And I'm trying to get the bunny to leave.

http://greatescapetravel.com/album/AS2000/images/red_fox.jpg

Back to the topic--libertarian never has worked much. It takes a nice, powerful word like liberty and makes it somehow tame as a librarian. And, yes, both the R and the D are divisive--and the big R is particularly spit on these days. Evoking the Declaration is good, but what do we want to be independent of these days? Foreign oil? Foreign oil wars?

We want America to be a better world citizen, and a Christian reference would convey that, but that would chase Kade off even faster. And he wouldn't be alone in that. And "world citizenship" reeks of global government we don't want.

Tricky business. Freedom Forum? Freedom Force? Followers of the Founding Fathers? 1776ers? Would the NBA sue us?

I fear I'm foundering.

The Continental Army either evokes images of an NAU or a flock of Lincoln automobiles. Revolutionary these days has way too much of a Che Guevara association. Revere's Raiders is too reminiscent of a 'sixties rock band. All the good stuff is either too obscure to bring up the right association or done to death. The damned neocons have wrapped themselves in the flag so much the poor thing's threadbare--all the good revolutionary references have gone cliche'.

And Patriot is the most tainted of them all.

The best I can come up with right now is that we are the Keepers of Freedom's Future. Too long, but the right idea...

[Kade]

And I'm trying to get the bunny to leave.

http://greatescapetravel.com/album/AS2000/images/red_fox.jpg

Back to the topic--libertarian never has worked much. It takes a nice, powerful word like liberty and makes it somehow tame as a librarian. And, yes, both the R and the D are divisive--and the big R is particularly spit on these days. Evoking the Declaration is good, but what do we want to be independent of these days? Foreign oil? Foreign oil wars?

We want America to be a better world citizen, and a Christian reference would convey that, but that would chase Kade off even faster. And he wouldn't be alone in that. And "world citizenship" reeks of global government we don't want.

Tricky business. Freedom Forum? Freedom Force? Followers of the Founding Fathers? 1776ers? Would the NBA sue us?

I fear I'm foundering.

The Continental Army either evokes images of an NAU or a flock of Lincoln automobiles. Revolutionary these days has way too much of a Che Guevara association. Revere's Raiders is too reminiscent of a 'sixties rock band. All the good stuff is either too obscure to bring up the right association or done to death. The damned neocons have wrapped themselves in the flag so much the poor thing's threadbare--all the good revolutionary references have gone cliche'.

And Patriot is the most tainted of them all.

The best I can come up with right now is that we are the Keepers of Freedom's Future. Too long, but the right idea...

Minarchists?

Would could make up a word.

How about Contyrannies?

Contra is also not exactly a bad connotation, despite the Iran affair...

Contra simply means against?

[amy31416]

And I'm trying to get the bunny to leave.

http://greatescapetravel.com/album/AS2000/images/red_fox.jpg



American FOXES!

http://members.fortunecity.com/delanay/snl54.jpg

(by the way, acp, very thoughtful post as usual. Mine? Silly as usual. :) )

[Kade]

How about simply, the Libertas

(Latin for Liberty)

[Mckarnin]

I call "us" and like-minded folks the "Freedom Movement". The organization I am starting to educate Americans on the principals of the freedom movement is called "Freedom's Ground". I like things that sound mainstream and appealing to a mass audience. :)

[acptulsa]

You want it to be accessible, preferably pro- not contrary (better to be for something good than to just be against something) and distinctive. Maybe not a bad thing to be a little humorous, too.

The Founders' Keepers?

P.S. But I like both the terms above, too--a lot. The Freedom Movement fighting to hold Freedom's Ground...

[Conza88]

http://www.makm-security.com/images/judge_hammer.jpg

Ok, case closed. "Liberty Movement" or "Freedom Movement" it is.
Next thread. :rolleyes:

Ehhh, well I'll shut up now. Got nothing constructive to say. And its past my bed time.. :)
GL finding a better descriptive name than those two though... you'll need it.

[Kade]

http://www.makm-security.com/images/judge_hammer.jpg

Ok, case closed. "Liberty Movement" or "Freedom Movement".
Next thread.:rolleyes:



And democracy wins again... :cool:

[micahnelson]

We should seek corporate sponsorship.

"The Prudential Political Movement"

"The Revolution, brought to you by Chevy"

Honestly, I don't think names are important. We represent what everyone really believes deep down inside, what most people know but have yet to articulate. What do we stand for- individual responsibility, the right the profit from your own hard work and intelligence, and to have your life and property protected from those who would claim it for their own designs.

We stand for bravery. We don't believe in kings or sages who know best, but we use our own wisdom and seek the counsel we value and make our own choices. When we fail, we own up to it. When we succeed we give no one else credit but those due.

We have strong opinions and stronger convictions. Our strongest belief is that everyone has a right to their own opinions and convictions. None of us who truly loves freedom would ever use the coercive arm of the law to shape the thoughts and values of another man. We are not authoritarians, but we do believe in authority. The only true Authority stems from the individual, granted for the exclusive purpose of maximizing and protecting the rights of man. All other authority is tyranny.

We are the anti-tyrants- the spontaneous free market reaction to a corrupt authoritarian government.

We are the new Checks and Balances.

[acptulsa]

American FOXES!

What's in a name? Well you might ask, Micah. Do you call your wife a fox or a dog? Both are canines, not much to choose between them--except few if any dogs are as good to look at as a red fox. We am what we am--but by what will they know us?

It isn't unwise to define ourselves before they define us. I do not, for example, consider myself a Paultard.

[amy31416]

What's in a name? Well you might ask, Micah. Do you call your wife a fox or a dog? Both are canines, not much to choose between them--except few if any dogs are as good to look at as a red fox. We am what we am--but by what will they know us?

It isn't unwise to define ourselves before they define us. I do not, for example, consider myself a Paultard.

Can't forget coyotes, hyenas, jackals, dingos and wolves. Foxes though, are really cool.

For the record, I don't consider you a Paultard either. :)

[menoname]

Can't forget coyotes, hyenas, jackals, dingos and wolves. Foxes though, are really cool.

For the record, I don't consider you a Paultard either. :)

I like cougars myself, but thats just me.

[amy31416]

I like cougars myself, but thats just me.

Kitties are awesome too. Jaguars, lions, cheetahs, panthers...all beautiful. But I certainly wouldn't want to meet one of 'em in a dark alley. :)

[raystone]

For local groups... Committee of Safety

Committees of Safety, were formed before and during the Revolutionary War, to keep watch of and act upon events pertaining to the public welfare.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Committee_of_Safety_%28American_Revolution%29


Or Committees of Correspondence which served an important role in the American Revolution and the years leading up to it, disseminating the colonial interpretation of British actions between the colonies and to foreign governments.

[acptulsa]

Kitties are awesome too. Jaguars, lions, cheetahs, panthers...all beautiful. But I certainly wouldn't want to meet one of 'em in a dark alley. :)

Well, since we are a herd of cats, how about the Lions of Liberty?

[amy31416]

Well, since we are a herd of cats, how about the Lions of Liberty?

Heh. Lions of Liberty, Leopards of Liberty, Listless Leviathans of Liberty. Makes no difference to me, I'm in even if it's called Penguins of Perpituity.

[acptulsa]

I'm in even if it's called Penguins of Perpituity.

Nah. I suspect all too many of our enemies would dearly love to see us in black and white suits and leg irons.

Let's don't encourage them.

[pcosmar]

Nah. I suspect all too many of our enemies would dearly love to see us in black and white suits and leg irons.

Let's don't encourage them.

It doesn't really work for me either, but it has potential.
http://www.simon-soft.com/Amry/b/070508_penguinarmy.jpg

But Linux already has the Penguin. :D

[Kruniac]

The Soldiers Of Liberty.

There you go. If it sounds too violent, wait until after the primaries.

[acptulsa]

How about a little urgency? Liberty's Last Stand!

[BuddyRey]

How about the "Alliance for Natural Rights and Free Societies" (ANRFS)? It sounds pleasant, yet states its purpose quite well, and wouldn't drive people off with intimidating labels. Then again, if you're talking about something less organizational, and more suited to a general political appellation, I'm quite fond of "classical liberal" (only trouble is, most people don't know what it means).

Why don't we call ourselves the Minarchocrats/Anarchocrats? These are probably wrong on some fundamental linguistic basis, but they still sound hella cool.

[Athan]

I like the sound of "Constitution Revolution".

A good logo for us would be the Stars and bars that is commonly seen on American WW2 aircraft.

I think our meet up groups if not being able to find a COMMON theme should stick with Ron Paul Revolution, but have their local groups bear different markings, names, and logos.

[hillbilly123069]

The True Americans

[bickelj]

I'm content with Freedom Movement

I've heard people say it enough and it answers the question "what is our MOVEMENT called?"

If I am in a position to name something it will just be the Freedom Movement of [insert locale here].

Peace.

[raystone]

Locally speaking...

Unfortunately, anything with the name "Freedom" in it doesn't attract the sheep and bring them as new members for education, as they think they are already free.

On the other side, there is moveon.org. what size would their organization have become if they had taken the name strictly on their intentions, such as... Communist Party of the USA ?


Curiously, some communist groups have the word Freedom in them....
Freedom Road Socialist Organization [Fight Back] (FRSO)
Freedom Road Socialist Organization [Freedom Road] (FRSO)
Freedom Socialist Party (FSP)


Here's one local name on top my current list.

____ County Liberty Caucus




-------------

[CaseyJones]

what about "Ring of Freedom" :D

[Kludge]

Northern Conservative Movement (in reference to the Nolan chart, fairly discrete if you don't feel like explaining libertarianism to someone who doesn't know a fuck about politics.)

[kiddleddee]

I'm content with Freedom Movement

I've heard people say it enough and it answers the question "what is our MOVEMENT called?"

If I am in a position to name something it will just be the Freedom Movement of [insert locale here].

Peace.

Jesse, it would be pretty presumptious, don't you think, to call ourselves "Freedom Movement"? I mean, after all, THE freedom movement existed long before the Ron Paul campaign and is much, much broader than the Ron Paul campaign. It includes libertarians and anarchists, hippies, tax protesters, free staters and all sorts of other folks who, for one reason or another, were not active in the RP campaign.

Perhaps, "The Ron Paul Faction of the Freedom Movement". :) Seriously, though, of the suggestions so far (and I have none of my own), I prefer "Liberty Faction".

Rocky

[acptulsa]

Oklahoma adopted the name "Liberty Values Coalition" for our slate of delegates at the convention. Though we didn't quite get them elected, we still like the name and are thinking of sticking to it.

[boggie08]

I like the sound of "Constitution Revolution".

A good logo for us would be the Stars and bars that is commonly seen on American WW2 aircraft.

I think our meet up groups if not being able to find a COMMON theme should stick with Ron Paul Revolution, but have their local groups bear different markings, names, and logos.

I completely agree. To the public, we should be the "Constitution Revolution," but we can identify ourselves as members of the Ron Paul Revolution.

[Deborah K]

Hi all,

A topic that I think hasn't been suitably addressed in my mind: the name or brand of our movement going forward.

Most of us are content to say it's the message, not the man. People think we're nuts for being involved because we can't get Ron Paul elected and they wonder why we're still trying. It would be prudent to come up with a meaningful name for after the convention in September.

I propose "The Liberty Faction"

"teh r3VOLution" is too nerdy.
"The Revolution" is too violent and vague for our goals.
"The non-violent Revolution" is too cumbersome.
"The Liberty Caucus" confuses us with the Republican Liberty Caucus.
We could join the RLC, but there's no consensus, not even a majority calling for this (and we're obviously our own group, maybe with some overlap).

We're into liberty, and I learned a new similar word "manumission" but again too vague since I didn't even know what that word meant. That kicks out "Manumission Caucus."

My proposal derives from Federalist 10, where Publius suggests that the cure for faction is more factions:

"The influence of factious leaders may kindle a flame within their particular States, but will be unable to spread a general conflagration through the other States. A religious sect may degenerate into a political faction in a part of the Confederacy; but the variety of sects dispersed over the entire face of it must secure the national councils against any danger from that source. A rage for paper money, for an abolition of debts, for an equal division of property, or for any other improper or wicked project, will be less apt to pervade the whole body of the Union than a particular member of it; in the same proportion as such a malady is more likely to taint a particular county or district, than an entire State."

There's nothing in the word "faction" that implies malice or violence, except its association with some radical groups in the 60s and 70s. But it does sound a little more extreme than a caucus, which is fine by me.

I also did some checks to see if this name is in use by any particular group, and it doesn't appear to be. I did find a couple references to a Liberty Faction or Independence Party being a crew at the first couple of congresses preceding the American Revolution.

Let me know your thoughts.

Jesse

Ron Paul Revolution - period.