Grannywarriors trying to split support for DC March AGAIN!!!

[enjoiskaterguy]

http://www.ronpaulwarroom.com/?p=9632

The Granny Warriors and Alex Jones keep promoting their own events while ignoring the March you have all planned. They are trying to get a RON PAUL FESTIVAL from July 2 through the 8th in South Dakoda. I like Alex and the Granny Warriors for what they stand for but enough is enough. The March should be our #1 focus(besides getting delegates to the NRC).

They are also proposing we give some of our money from our Tax rebates to this festival while I propose we give it to RON PAUL on July 12th to encourage the strength financially to continuing the campaign.


We need people that can contact Alex Jones and the Granny Warriors to HOLD OFF. This proposed "festival" will just dwindle our numbers at the March/Rally 4 days later on the 12th. People will be wiped out and won't want to spend any more $ to go to the march.

so lets get to it. Continue to promote the march. Do not support the Festival(although it would wonderful but it is not sensible) We Ron Paul supporters can do local RP activities on the 4th of July...No need to travel to South Dakota to do it.

Lets rock n' roll.

[Conza88]

If thats true. My like for both parties is slowly dieing.

[GunnyFreedom]

I was angry at the GW's for their April 15 thing, for several rational reasons which I have already stated on RPF before. This horrible thing they are doing NOW, makes me actively wonder if they are trying to sabotage the Revolution going forward. If they do not drop this nonsense post-haste, then I will change my opinion of them from merely selfish and unthinking, to outright enemies of the cause.

[Gin]

I don't know who owns it, but is there anyway that we can get RonPaulMarch.com back up and running or at least have it re-directed to the revolutionmarch.com site? Also I think that it would be a great idea to put the pledge count back up like the one on ronPaulMarch.... Folks like to see the numbers growing.... with Granny's causing confusion again this might be the one way to save it....

[Aratus]

the april 15th date at the time was the earliest opening for a march or a rally
undertaken BEFORE any other plans had solidified. if S.D is do-able for people
who can affort the jaunt to the Great Plains yet be maxxed out by D.C and hotel
space, if the S.D event is more like a mini-rally and state fair, THEN MAYBE THE
CAMPAIGN HEADQUARTERs NEEDs TO PROMOTE D.C and JULY 12th VERY LOUDLY!!!

[Aratus]

D.C is centrally located if you drive either up or down the east coast.
D.C is also able to pull in people via auto who live EAST of the mightly
mississippi. i think the S.D event is something that people who are in
the great plains can drive to, air travel being what it is! methinks west
coast people are more apt to think am-trak or L.A.X insted of a long drive.
there could be dedicated people at both events, yet i think its more an HQ
question if there is a low turnout, and i would not blame Grannywarriors
until both events are fait accomplii. if the festival is utilized to logroll to the
public the bigger D.C march, and if Alex Jones helps in this, it creates the
impression that the rEVOLUTIOn is more than a sometimes regional event.
call this a proverbial one, two punch! we need both events WITH a focus on D.C!!!

[ItsTime]

The GW were also telling people the DC march was canceled...

[Aratus]

oh my!

where is HQ?

... on this?

[Conza88]

oh my!

where is HQ?

... on this?

Yea a solid, I am Ron Paul and I will be there on __ date, would be great. :)

[ItsTime]

Well the march people were holding on on a date until they heard back from HQ on the date that Ron Paul could talk.


Yea a solid, I am Ron Paul and I will be there on __ date, would be great. :)

[hrdman2luv]

organize this. His supporters. Not him. We were to tell him when we would all be there. And we can't even agree on a friggin date............

We are either going to have to get a solid date and present it to granny and Alex and each other, or forget about it. I guess we are so used to being followers trying to lead, that we have misplaced our brains.

Lets get it together people while Ron Paul still has a chance to turn the GOP around.

The coverage of the Nevada convention made CNN. Ron got some air time with it, and is still shaking up the GOP's "NEW" establishment. There are enough true conservitives left in the USA that can make a difference.

But, the democrats membership is rising to new record levels. I don't know anyone that is in even 85% support of McCain. And there is no one that I can't, at the very least, make someone just think about voting for Ron Paul.

There is still months left. so even if there isn't a march, there is still time to spread RP message. Thats the important thing.

[Bradley in DC]

Could we please cut the "divider" crap already?

The more people doing more--and more creative--things to promote the rEVOLution the better.

[MS0453]

Could we please cut the "divider" crap already?

The more people doing more--and more creative--things to promote the rEVOLution the better.

+1

As someone above already mentioned, its probably difficult for those west of the Mississippi to attend D.C. As long as people are doing something, I can't complain.

[Deborah K]

organize this. His supporters. Not him. We were to tell him when we would all be there. And we can't even agree on a friggin date............

We are either going to have to get a solid date and present it to granny and Alex and each other, or forget about it. I guess we are so used to being followers trying to lead, that we have misplaced our brains.

Lets get it together people while Ron Paul still has a chance to turn the GOP around.

The coverage of the Nevada convention made CNN. Ron got some air time with it, and is still shaking up the GOP's "NEW" establishment. There are enough true conservitives left in the USA that can make a difference.

But, the democrats membership is rising to new record levels. I don't know anyone that is in even 85% support of McCain. And there is no one that I can't, at the very least, make someone just think about voting for Ron Paul.

There is still months left. so even if there isn't a march, there is still time to spread RP message. Thats the important thing.




We have a solid date, it is July 12th. Ron Paul has agreed to speak. The march is on.

[Deborah K]

The GW were also telling people the DC march was canceled...

Please provide a link that states this so that I can properly address it.

[ARealConservative]

stop funding their RV adventure is a great start.

Nothing says Ron Paul kook like a monkey in a diaper. :rolleyes:

[ronpaulhawaii]

Could we please cut the "divider" crap already?

The more people doing more--and more creative--things to promote the rEVOLution the better.

While I generally agree with this, I don't know about this kind of "creativity"



Why anyone would want to be known as a liar? (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45997#comment-432785)

On April 16th, 2008 Granny Warrior (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/78) says:
I don't know who this person is and don't really care but I was there, I took a good count, there were at least 1,200 people there all day long, At the very end of the day there were still a crowd which is very unusual., At most of the rallys when Dr. Paul leaves it is over.. this one was much different, the rally started when he left with 22 speakers and bands and Dave with his music. Look at the phtots and videos. It was a great day and I am so proud to have been a part of it. The congessmen came out on the steps and watched as did the snipers on the roof tops.
Anyone that trys to minimise this crowd is off their rockers. The people at this rally were spread all over the place, with blankets, chairs and their familys and picnic lunches. This is what a rally should be like. Fun, learning and sharing with each other..
When you get ready to put together your 500 000 march let us know we will be there to cheer you on not try to discourage your efforts.
Granny Warrior




Ok, this is just slightly belittling (and grossly exaggerating, Interesting title considering the content... ), please note her last sentence.

Now, lets look at a later post;


drizzle you still fizzle.. (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45997#comment-433755)

On April 17th, 2008 Granny Warrior (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/78) says:
You either can't count or do so very selectively.. even at the end and I mean the very end there were more than 200 people there as more than that many helped clean up the paper and pick up all the trash..Get real and learn to really count. There were over 100 people who just worked with us all day. plus the sound operators and different orgs. staffs.. now how would you explain the people sitting on the walls, on the ground and walking around the lawns? And as far as June 21st I guess there will be 100,000,000 there that day... You are living in a bottle... there will be no 21st.. Nada, nill, nothing going on that day.. at least not in Washington.
By the way, you probably were not even there.. I would bet you weren't. You say we were too busy for you to come and talk to us? What were we doing that was so important we wouldn't have time to say hellO???
Granny Warrior
www.grannywarriors.com (http://www.grannywarriors.com/)



At this point the r3vmarch folk had not gotten an answer from RP, so while she is technically correct, it certainly flies in the face of her ealier statement noted above. (As a side note I will add that she was quite rude to me when I made "the time to say HELLO." Fact is, I did not even get to finish saying, "Hi my name is and I just wanted to say hello and thanks... before she cut me off saying "yeah great. Now put that bag down and go start cleaning up.)

Now, I am not one to pick on old ladies (and shrugged off her rudeness to age and exhuastion), but I really do not think this one has the Ron Paul r3VOLution's best interests at heart. I think she is dancing to her own drum and likes to crash her conspiracy cymbals a bit... much. I mean, what is up with her going on about snipers on rooftops in DC? GMAB.

While I can appreciate all she has done, and may even donate again if her wagon breaks down, I will not consider her a "leader" of the RP-GR until she learns some diplomacy, and how to play well with others.

Continueing...



About Grannys Profits???? (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45997#comment-435630)
On April 19th, 2008 Granny Warrior (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/78) says:
I try not to be mean most of the time but when people come on like you GIN and say we are profiting from this, you have to be joking.
We collected $5345.00, it cost us just for the staging alone, $2,226.00, porta potties @ $65.00 each, generator $460.00,food $649.00, drinks $450.00, ( this was supposed to be for the speakers and workers but it turned out that others used the buffet as well which was no problem) then airline tickets for some of the guests, gas money for others, plus our own gas and we wound up $1,019 in the hole. Oh I forgot the Camp ground fees for some of the guests that came in with RV's. And how about all the DVD's, wrist bands and buttons which were given away. Do you think they are free? The Slim Jims and printed material has to be paid for also. It has always been this way and I am not complaining as we make most of the expenses on donations but don't you ever even imply we are profiting from this. You are certainly in no position to say one way or the other.
The permit is absolutely FREE as is the POLICE PROTECTION.
As for the Ron Paul March, I commend who ever that is that is doing that but it would be nice to know who you are dealing with. Why keep the organizers names secret? I would hesitate to send in money to any cause I could not verify who was getting it. That seems like a common sense thing to me. I would think they would get lots more help if they would simply say who they are and how to contact them. I also have offered to be of any help I can to that group, we have tried to work with them from the start which would have been a lot nicer than each doing their own thing seperately. But we did and succeeded to do what we set out to do even with all the snide and rude remarks that were made along with insinuations of us lying about Ron being there..
The Congress had people out on the balcony all day long watching, as did some of the senators. And I guarantee you Ron Paul was not embarassed by a poor showing. Not a single one of the other congressmen could have had that many people on the lawn for them on a tuesday. Many of them were clapping for the speakers and some even bounced up and down to the music. We accomplished what we set out to do but we did not profit from it other than having a raging headache, tired bones and worn out mind. I am still recouperating from the experience.
Granny Warrior
www.grannywarriors.com (http://www.grannywarriors.com/)




First of all, I have profited from my involvement in this campaign. After I quit my job in HI and spent all my savings, friends, family, and fellow supporters have helped subsidize my continuing efforts. Without that help I could never have pedelled a bicycle 3500 miles; gone to NH:mad:, SC:(, or TX:D; nor would I be going to Campaign Management School next week. Basically I would still be killing time in HI, waiting to die. RP and, mostly, the GR has given me a new reason to live and that, my friends, is profit.

Linda has profited, also, no matter what she wants to call it. And now she wants $25,000 for her Birthday Bash in Sturgis. Hhhmmmm...

Anyway, this thread is about the competing marchs.

Linda claims to have offered to help people she can't contact... Hmmmm...

She, also, erroneously claims that the police contingent is free and then goes on to discourage support, what a sweet:rolleyes: old lady... Now, if she could only get over the hypocrisy.

But lets leave the poor lady alone, for now, and look at some posts from her staff;


Again (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45997#comment-433988)
On April 17th, 2008 MichelleM (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/12185) says:
There is no June Rally, there is NO permit. Though we do hope they can find some date for some kind of Rally. As far as I heard from the "horses mouth", they cannot get a permit for June or July in DC.



Seems she was listening to the wrong end of the horse. I must say though GW&Co are certainly consistent in their hypocrisy. The sarcasm drips hideously

The following post is the one that got my goat though;



It is not juvenile... it is (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/45997#comment-435175)
On April 19th, 2008 MichelleM (http://www.dailypaul.com/user/12185) says:
It is not juvenile... it is responsibility... the July March has not shown proof of the permit, they haven't explained why they are conning people and telling them they need even money for police when that is NO CHARGE and they haven't said WHO is in charge so how does anyone know WHERE the money is going? The Granny Warriors have always been honest and that is why they have raised over $100,000 in funds to help the Ron Paul campaign!
I called the office where you get your permit and they said you don't have one! Now show it or stop conning people! You couldn't get one for June OR July!



Besides the obvious hostility and lies, I must note that Linda insisting there were 1200 pax there all day tells me a bit about their accuracy. And being accurate is a large part of honesty. More importantly is this $100,000 they have raised for RP. Since they claim to be so open and honest, I sure would like to see where all that money went...

There's more, but this whole episode saddens me and I'll just say that I hope this all works out for us all...

[hotbrownsauce]

Alright I am not one to criticize unless something really bugs me. In all honesty, their efforts are great and I respect them for taking time to develop actions. I respect that they support the same message I support and we couldn't be any much better of a big happy family on those notes.

Ron Paul himself has specifically implied and good as gold requested a march on DC this summer time. I don't have the video link handy, many of us can remember it though. He wants us to have a huge impact on the National Convention by sending delegates and having a marvelous march this summer.
To be fair to the people who didn't like the granny march in the first place. I can agree that April 15th wasn't the best day. But we can still give them some credit.
Anyway, planning this even in South Dakota from July 2nd to the 8th is an extremely poorly planned event. In essence the biggest of the two marches on July 12th (The first one was April 15th) will be cast aside as if it doesn't matter at all. 1.) This event goes against Ron Paul's wishes when he said he wanted a March in a few months (July was one of the months he mentioned). This was the longest planned, well thought out, most waited for, most pledges to attend and it is attempted to be split by this other event.
Get a few things straight, I am not knocking the event or the desired impact they want. I am knocking that they are seemingly careless towards what other supporters are trying to do and this to me is a huge statement and slap in the face.

I plead that they wise up in picking better dates. This sort of thing will NOT fly. Granny Warriors Alex Jones and Etc Etc please understand that this represents its self as a back stab to a lot of us supporters and we would all appreciate a written statement addressing our concerns.

[Gin]

http://www.dailypaul.com/node/47106#comment-446454

I tried to put out some of the fire, but need reinforcements



Please provide a link that states this so that I can properly address it.

[Gin]

Generally I would also agree with you here Bradley, but people who lie to make themselves look better really tend to piss me off for one and for 2 while I supported wholeheartedly GW April 15th rally...I believe it would only be fair for her to support this effort...but instead she is attempting to split folks down the middle and cause more confusion...if you remember there was ALOT of confusion over the APRIL 15th Rally and the BIG SUMMER RALLY.... in addition she is telling folks that there is NO PERMIT.....there is WAY TOO MUCH CONTROVERSY over this whole thing when it is my belief we ALL want the same Result....Just my humble opinion.......



Could we please cut the "divider" crap already?

The more people doing more--and more creative--things to promote the rEVOLution the better.

[ItsTime]

GW are starting to look like the blimp people selfish to the core.

[brandon]

I'm sick of these old ladies, who the hell do they think they are?

Why is Daily Paul overrun with self-appointed grassroots "leaders" who seem to only want to serve their own ego. Then these self appointed leader manage to get hordes of devoted blind followers. I'm glad the mods here have prevented this type of nonsence.

What the hell do they think they will accomplish with a festival? I am somewhat skeptical of the effectivness of a march on DC, but a weeklong "festival" in the middle of no where? CMON. Are they trying to re-live woodstock or something?


The DC march it is.

[steph3n]

wow this is still going on........they took a sip of the koolaid back on the 'recount' and haven't turned back. It is THEIR WAY or NO WAY.

[brandon]

I really can't believe this.

How the hell do they think that getting drunk, barbecuing,and watching fireworks in the middle of no where for four days will help us get better government?

How can so many people at the daily paul blindly follow these ladies without asking questions. I thought we were a movement of individuals and critical thinkers.

[brandon]

And now they are claiming they had over 2000 people in DC on tax day! Give me a break

[Danke]

I really can't believe this.

How the hell do they think that getting drunk, barbecuing,and watching fireworks in the middle of no where for four days will help us get better government?



That is what got me interested in going! :D

I will be at the July 12th March too. But I'm thinking I'll have more fun that I won't be able to remember July 2-6!

But they are having workshops that sound interesting to me. And I like mingling with other freedom minded folks. Whereas July 12th, for me anyway, is a one day in and out event.

[brandon]

That is what got me interested in going! :D

I will be at the July 12th March too. But I'm thinking I'll have more fun that I won't be able to remember July 2-6!

But they are having workshops that sound interesting to me. And I like mingling with other freedom minded folks. Whereas July 12th, for me anyway, is a one day in and out event.

haha, i'm sure it will be a great time. If i lived closer to SD i would go. I am just worried that people will attend the 4 day party instead of showing up to march on DC.

[Acala]

Wow! Some pretty ugly behaviour on the part of GW. Makes me wonder about the real agenda over there.

The organizers of the July 12 march are doing a great job and I am really excited about it!

[torchbearer]

Wow! Some pretty ugly behaviour on the part of GW. Makes me wonder about the real agenda over there.

The organizers of the July 12 march are doing a great job and I am really excited about it!

They are being childish in this sense that they came on this forum prior to their event and saw people degrading everything they were doing..
Pushing people away, saying it was a dumb idea...
And now they are returning the favor.

Guess thats karma.

[Gin]

We are actually working on making it a weekend long event since so many are traveling from the west coast and from overseas.....stay tuned....


Whereas July 12th, for me anyway, is a one day in and out event.

[Acala]

Hey! Don't knock Woodstock! Do you know anyone alive at the time that doesn't wish they had gone?

That is what people will be saying about the July 12 march! "It was the turning point, kids! Somehow everything reached critical mass - the war, the economy, the growing police state. America woke up that day. And nothing was ever the same."

Hahahahaha! Be there or be square!

[Gin]

Sorry, but I tend to disagree with you here......this is just plain disrespectful to Ron Paul period in my opinion...


They are being childish in this sense that they came on this forum prior to their event and saw people degrading everything they were doing..
Pushing people away, saying it was a dumb idea...
And now they are returning the favor.

Guess thats karma.

[torchbearer]

Sorry, but I tend to disagree with you here......this is just plain disrespectful to Ron Paul period in my opinion...

I agree it is direspectful, from both ends. That was a factual observation. I wasn't advocating a position.

Someone was wondering why they were doing this... I gave my observation.
Not making judgements, just stating what i've seen.

[Gin]

It's funny...and really awesome I think.... 2008 is turning out to be the year for Rallies, Marches and Generally We The People standing up for our rights.....

And We ALL have Ron Paul to thank for it....... He is a True HERO in my book.... ranked right up there with my father and grandfather.......I feel very blessed to be a part of the R3volution......

[Gin]

I completely understand...I was not frequenting RPFs before the Revolution March was in high gear...mainly cuz I couldn't remember my login and waited 3 weeks for my reminder...eventually just setup a new account....

I heard of ppl downing april 15th, but myself I didn't see anyone downing it...I did see alot of folks confused as to which date was the one RP requested and the thoughts that it being a Tuesday in the middle of the school year would make it difficult for alot of folks to pull off, but I did not see anyone downing it or pulling the stunts GW is pulling with saying this rally has been canceled, no permit, a con... etc....

I personally don't see how this festival will help Ron Paul win the Nomination...but that is just my opinion....I feel it is once again not planned very well, but unlike the April 15th rally, which I did support...I can't support this one as it is asking too much of folks when the Big March is only 4 days later.....and it is what RP requested....I will not down GW or anyone else for their efforts...but they should also not try to discourage folks by stating straight up LIES....That p*sses me off.....

Nothing worse than a liar and a thief in my book...everything else is negotiable


I agree it is direspectful, from both ends. That was a factual observation. I wasn't advocating a position.

Someone was wondering why they were doing this... I gave my observation.
Not making judgements, just stating what i've seen.

[Acala]

No matter what happens from now on, Ron Paul has worked a miracle. I am glad he got to see all his hard and courageous work come to fruition. Now it is up to us to carry the ball.

[Gin]

I agree... In fact I just got my Manifesto today and can't wait to start reading it... I did read the dedication page which brought a tear to my eye...

For those that haven't gotten their copy yet.... here is what he wrote....

To My Supporters:

I have never been more humbled and honored than by your selfless devotion to freedom and the Constitution.

The American Revolution did the impossible.
So can we.


No matter what happens from now on, Ron Paul has worked a miracle. I am glad he got to see all his hard and courageous work come to fruition. Now it is up to us to carry the ball.

[Deborah K]

They are being childish in this sense that they came on this forum prior to their event and saw people degrading everything they were doing..
Pushing people away, saying it was a dumb idea...
And now they are returning the favor.

Guess thats karma.

Karma for whom? We've never been anything but supportive of them.

[torchbearer]

Karma for whom? We've never been anything but supportive of them.

Not talking about you, the ones who were putting up the threads to discourage attendance on the 15h. the ones spreading the idea that Ron wasn't going to be there.

It's easy to find who they are... we have post history here.

When I saw it as it happened, it saddened me.. i'd often follow the negative post with "But I will be speaking at the 15th" or "No, Ron will be there to recieve some artwork".

[Deborah K]

Not talking about you, the ones who were putting up the threads to discourage attendance on the 15h. the ones spreading the idea that Ron wasn't going to be there.

It's easy to find who they are... we have post history here.

When I saw it as it happened, it saddened me.. i'd often follow the negative post with "But I will be speaking at the 15th" or "No, Ron will be there to recieve some artwork".

But it is us she is accusing of being not forthcoming, etc., etc.

[torchbearer]

But it is us she is accusing of being not forthcoming, etc., etc.

Think of karma as the blowback... and this post is coming from an objective observer sociologist.
First, this has nothing to do with you.
An event failed, the people who put on the event are not happy and often look for scapegoats.
These people who put on the prior event was hammered by some people on this forum and on daily paul.
Now they see people from this forum putting on another rally.

so there thought may be like "Inside instict draws the conclusion that those people trashed our rally in jealous competition, we've lost money, prestige, or (whatever negative you want to add here) and thus those people are the true enemy of freedom so we are lashing back at them (in the general sense)"

You just happen to be organizing most of this next event.

Now remember, i'm not advocating. I saying this in an objective, sociological observation of the event leading up the april 15th, and the events that have follow.

I found it interesting that people were so shocked that the GW would say such things, whereas to me, it is very obvious why...

So i hope my observation can help answer those questions.
This is my professional opinion.

[warriorgranny]

If thats true. My like for both parties is slowly dieing.

I hope you all have enough sense to realize this is all just BS. I had applied for the April rally before Ron ever even announced his wish for a march. It was all done before any of the others started and the fees had been paid so I was not about to let it just go. The rally was a success even with the bashing and trashing done on this site by a few people. We trashed no one. But even at the entrance the police were turning away people who were standing there telling everyone the rally had been cancelled. That was not us doing that it was another group who went online and said it had been canceled. It was not and was a success with over 2000 people there with photos to prove it.

The March people are way off base again. The event in Sturgis is a solid effort to rally a revolution which is fading fast, the people on the west coast cannot aford the trip to the east we realized that way into the planning of the Rally on the 15th. Sturgis was selected then to be a point that was accessable to many of the western states and we planned on it starting before the 15th.

There is no need to be doing all this bashing unless there is a underlying motive to just ruin what we have done the past 2 years. Yes 2 years, we have been going around fighting Nais, NAU and Amnesty before Ron ever announced. There has never been a event we have organized that has been a sham or underhanded and won't be. We have not bashed anyone nor lied to or about anyone on any other event and usually have tried to help in any way possible but there are some that cannot bear to be helped as they know it all and are so big in their own egos that they think they can just write and say things without being questioned. I question most everything just as I am questioned. My name, address and phone number has always been available so people know who I am and where I live so they have some faith in our honesty. We have not betrayed that honesty in any manner and don't intend to start any time soon.

With so many millions of people in this country there is room for hundreds of rallys, marches and events and should not interfere with each other in any way. The more the better as energy and spirits wane with each loss. This Event in Sturgis is a Revolution Festival meant to be a fun time with people networking and just relaxing and having fun. It will be a success and we will have plenty of people out there no matter how hard others try to minimize it. We already have 7 bands coming, 10 workshops and 13 speakers all well known in the revolution community. We have already started taking reservations for free tent sites, RV sites and Cabin rentals, the place has a swimming pond, a swimming pool, 3 stages, skeet shooting range, 3 bars, restaurants and food vendors, it will be like a real old fashioned festival for families. The best part is it is affordable for the whole family and being held on at a time when lots are taking their vacations. The fourth will be ended with a huge fireworks display, not a few fire crackers but a real display by professionals.

I hope to see a lot of you there and wish the March in DC all the success possible.

By the way> we did not invite Ron to the festival as we knew or thought he would be in Washington DC but his staff ( Jennifer his scheduler) wrote and asked if he was invited and of course I replied that he would be more than welcome to just send me the date and time he would be there. So I guess he feels it is a good idea or he would not be interested in going to SD in July.

Linda ( Granny)
www.revolution4freedom.com

[warriorgranny]

I found it interesting that people were so shocked that the GW would say such things, whereas to me, it is very obvious why...

So i hope my observation can help answer those questions.
This is my professional opinion.[/QUOTE]


I am curious as to what it is that I said that was shocking to anyone? and the Rally on the 15th was not a failure and we lost no money or prestiege or anything else. We were not there to fulfill our own egos.. we were there to make a statement to Congress and the Senate which we did very well. If you look at the photos you can see the congressmen and senators standing on the patio listening to the speakers, that is what we were there to do get their attention. If only 100 people would have shown up I would have felt it a success.. Any thing to get people to wake up. We had wonderful speakers and entertainers, people laid on the grass and just enjoyed the day. It was a beautiful day and went so well I was very pleased with every aspect of it. So were the folks that were there.

[Mckarnin]

GW are starting to look like the blimp people selfish to the core.

Hey, don't group us all together. :rolleyes:

[warriorgranny]

[middle of the school year would make it difficult for alot of folks to pull off, but I did not see anyone downing it or pulling the stunts GW is pulling with saying this rally has been canceled, no permit, a con... etc....

I personally don't see how this festival will help Ron Paul win the Nomination...but that is just my opinion....I feel it is once again not planned very well, but unlike the April 15th rally, which I did support...I can't support this one as it is asking too much of folks when the Big March is only 4 days later.....and it is what RP requested....I will not down GW or anyone else for their efforts...but they should also not try to discourage folks by stating straight up LIES....That p*sses me off.....

Nothing worse than a liar and a thief in my book...everything else is negotiable[/QUOTE]

You are correct there is nothing worse than a liar and a thief and I certainly hope you are not calling me that. The Granny warriors never have said the march has been canceled, I did ask to see the permits as we have been told by the Events police in charge that there is no rally permitted for the 12th. And I never said that this was a con. Go back and look at any posts I have made. You will prove to yourself that you are the one that is mistaken. We are not starting up lies, or trying to discourage anyone from attending your March but you do need to be more forthcoming in your answers to questions. There has never been a time when we planned an event that we didn't show our permits, our names, our phone numbers and where we lived. There are so many scam artists out and about that it only makes sense to do so and assure people of our honesty and good intent. Why hide who is organizing the march? Why not just scan and post the permit? Where is it going to start and end? simple questions and ones people need to know before planning anything. That does not make me a enemy of the March just curious since you have made such a strong statement over and over about our integrity.

[Deborah K]

You can contact me at deborah@revolutionmarch.com We are not "hiding" anything.

[steph3n]

I find it interesting using this excuse of west coast travel costs, flying to DC is $250 cheaper than flying NEAR to this "sturgis" Driving won't be cheap these days of $4 gas.........

[GunnyFreedom]

I find it interesting using this excuse of west coast travel costs, flying to DC is $250 cheaper than flying NEAR to this "sturgis" Driving won't be cheap these days of $4 gas.........

I agree. Self aggrandizement seems to rule the day. But they aren't the only ones bleeding support from the march. The group "American For A Free Republic" http://www.afr.org/ are doing it too:


FREEDOM FEST 2008

"The world's largest gathering of free minds"

July 10-12, 2008, Bally's/Paris Resort
www.freedomfest.com

Three Conferences in One!

So I guess the Ron Paul Revolution is doomed to cannibalize itself in it's infancy. Every little group whining and crying because it does not have primacy, and cannibalizing all the other groups. This is why the Libertarian Party self-destructed and has no impact on American politics today. Selfish self aggrandizing sectarians who care more about seeing their own name up in lights than they do about saving our Republic!

I will continue working to save our nation until I draw my last breath, and I will do everything in my power to work with those who also want to fight the good fight. But it's times like these that I can't help but think that we as a nation, and we as a liberty movement, deserve every failure we encounter on account of our acting like this. :mad: :mad: :mad: splitting our resources when we should be concentrating them, and concentrating our resources when we should be splitting them. :mad: :mad: :mad:

So go on Granny Warriors, do your thing! and go on AFR, do your thing! When the death squads start clearing us house by house, you can die happy knowing you had your fyking 15 minutes up in lights. :( whooppie!

"Look poppa! America is dead! but at least we had fun while she was crashing!"

If we fail in our endeavors, then this is why the Liberty movement will not succeed in America - we always eat our young. Excuse me while I go vomit. And then excuse me again while I go order another 1,000 rounds to have on hand after the total collapse of America.

For the first time since THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION we in the Liberty Movement worked together. ACTUALLY WORKED TOGETHER and we created the Ron Paul Revolution TOGETHER. Now we are splitting off in 100 directions and are destined to fail and die. Well did Benjamin Franklin speak when he said, "We must all hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

But too many of us just don't give a damn about saving our nation. We just want to be the next name on the marquee. Hallelujia! We could have ACTUALLY SAVED OUR NATION but we were too damn busy playing the fyking fiddle while Rome burned.

THANK YOU Granny Warriors! THANK YOU AFP! At least now I'll really get to use my food stores and my generator, and my hand pump for the well. I hope you are still so damn self-satisfied about your selves when the death squads are clearing our neighborhoods!

What the hell ever happened to the concept of self-sacrifice for the sake of the ultimate goal? Are Americans REALLY too fat dumb and happy to understand the concept of giving up their personal glory for the sake of accomplishing the mission?

I'm so damn angry right now that I had best stop writing right here and now.

[flames2dust77]

**edit - Granny although I sent you a private apology I will also apologize out on the forum. I am sorry for the rudeness I displayed here and at dailypaul.com I'm also leaving my post up as is...I was a jerk, and well, I am accepting responsibility for being one.


wow. just wow. i swear...we will be our own undoing. In fighting....not good.

And Linda....I'm sorry, but you're wrong about people on the west coast. I am in the middle of organizing a west coast caravan. ALOT of ppl are wanting to be in DC regardless of the cost. So...no, ur reasoning, well, just doesn't fly in regards to west coasters. THere is no other place we would rather be in July....Washington DC

I am truly offended that you would say the organizers of this march are conning ppl. Way to go! That is a vicious lie Linda and you know it. You are trying to plant seeds of doubt. Why? What you said on daily paul is pure speculation. You are speaking on something you know absolutely nothing about. It's one thing to want to verify things.....but it's another to make assumptions and start spreading rumors, doubt, etc.. As some one who is supposed to be wiser in regards to life experience...you sure aren't setting an example for us younger members of the movement. I used to stick up for the Grannies. I won't anymore. Never again. I was just shocked at some of the rudeness I read. And honestly Linda...I cannot for the life of me figure out why the festival would be so close to July 12. Hmmmmm.

**
But..to each their own. Like I said on daily paul...the festival in sturgis is not going to put a dent in the numbers on July 12. Let them have their festival. We need to focus on the tasks at hand. Delegates, Ron Paul Republicans, and the march. Enough with the silly nothingness being spewed all over this thread. It's not helping the movement at all...it's just one big whack ass distraction. So...just stop.

[flames2dust77]

So I guess the Ron Paul Revolution is doomed to cannibalize itself in it's infancy.

If things keep going this way....indeed. It will all be over and we will be doomed.



What the hell ever happened to the concept of self-sacrifice for the sake of the ultimate goal?

People are too greedy and selfish nowadays.


Are Americans REALLY too fat dumb and happy to understand the concept of giving up their personal glory for the sake of accomplishing the mission?

Yes.




I'm so damn angry right now that I had best stop writing right here and now.

Nah..you probably should have kept ranting. You make perfect sense. Someone needs to knock some sense into some of these ppl.




fyking

I really like that word...I'm going to use it in a sentence today.:cool:

[mdmarino]

Gunny, I'm trying to figure out the link between AFR and FreedomFest, and can't see the connection. Are they just promoting the event?
Because FreedomFest is an annual event that's gone on since 2002, according to the Wikipedia page on its founder, Mark Skousen. Actually, Ron Paul is listed as a speaker at this year's event (he was there last year too), so I was really considering going to FreedomFest before the date for the DC march was announced. Now I'm a little torn, but the financial situation makes the DC march much more affordable for me.

[Aratus]

D.C is centrally located if you drive either up or down the east coast.
D.C is also able to pull in people via auto who live EAST of the mightly
mississippi. i think the S.D event is something that people who are in
the great plains can drive to, air travel being what it is! methinks west
coast people are more apt to think am-trak or L.A.X insted of a long drive.
there could be dedicated people at both events, yet i think its more an HQ
question if there is a low turnout, and i would not blame Grannywarriors
until both events are fait accomplii. if the festival is utilized to logroll to the
public the bigger D.C march, and if Alex Jones helps in this, it creates the
impression that the rEVOLUTIOn is more than a sometimes regional event.
call this a proverbial one, two punch! we need both events WITH a focus on D.C!!!


WarriorGranny has just laid on you from her perspective...
it does make sense. lets all be common sense about this...

[Aratus]

"I am curious as to what it is that I said that was shocking to anyone? and the Rally on the 15th was not a failure and we lost no money or prestiege or anything else. We were not there to fulfill our own egos.. we were there to make a statement to Congress and the Senate which we did very well. If you look at the photos you can see the congressmen and senators standing on the patio listening to the speakers, that is what we were there to do get their attention. If only 100 people would have shown up I would have felt it a success.. Any thing to get people to wake up. We had wonderful speakers and entertainers, people laid on the grass and just enjoyed the day. It was a beautiful day and went so well I was very pleased with every aspect of it. So were the folks that were there."


* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *


IT WASN'T A FAILURE...
PEOPLE MET PEOPLE...
THE RALLY WAS SEEN
BY CAPITAL HILL TYPEs.

[Aratus]

I hope you all have enough sense to realize this is all just BS. I had applied for the April rally before Ron ever even announced his wish for a march. It was all done before any of the others started and the fees had been paid so I was not about to let it just go. The rally was a success even with the bashing and trashing done on this site by a few people. We trashed no one. But even at the entrance the police were turning away people who were standing there telling everyone the rally had been cancelled. That was not us doing that it was another group who went online and said it had been canceled. It was not and was a success with over 2000 people there with photos to prove it.

The March people are way off base again. The event in Sturgis is a solid effort to rally a revolution which is fading fast, the people on the west coast cannot aford the trip to the east we realized that way into the planning of the Rally on the 15th. Sturgis was selected then to be a point that was accessable to many of the western states and we planned on it starting before the 15th.

There is no need to be doing all this bashing unless there is a underlying motive to just ruin what we have done the past 2 years. Yes 2 years, we have been going around fighting Nais, NAU and Amnesty before Ron ever announced. There has never been a event we have organized that has been a sham or underhanded and won't be. We have not bashed anyone nor lied to or about anyone on any other event and usually have tried to help in any way possible but there are some that cannot bear to be helped as they know it all and are so big in their own egos that they think they can just write and say things without being questioned. I question most everything just as I am questioned. My name, address and phone number has always been available so people know who I am and where I live so they have some faith in our honesty. We have not betrayed that honesty in any manner and don't intend to start any time soon.

With so many millions of people in this country there is room for hundreds of rallys, marches and events and should not interfere with each other in any way. The more the better as energy and spirits wane with each loss. This Event in Sturgis is a Revolution Festival meant to be a fun time with people networking and just relaxing and having fun. It will be a success and we will have plenty of people out there no matter how hard others try to minimize it. We already have 7 bands coming, 10 workshops and 13 speakers all well known in the revolution community. We have already started taking reservations for free tent sites, RV sites and Cabin rentals, the place has a swimming pond, a swimming pool, 3 stages, skeet shooting range, 3 bars, restaurants and food vendors, it will be like a real old fashioned festival for families. The best part is it is affordable for the whole family and being held on at a time when lots are taking their vacations. The fourth will be ended with a huge fireworks display, not a few fire crackers but a real display by professionals.

I hope to see a lot of you there and wish the March in DC all the success possible.

By the way> we did not invite Ron to the festival as we knew or thought he would be in Washington DC but his staff ( Jennifer his scheduler) wrote and asked if he was invited and of course I replied that he would be more than welcome to just send me the date and time he would be there. So I guess he feels it is a good idea or he would not be interested in going to SD in July.

Linda ( Granny)
www.revolution4freedom.com

laying it flat out...

[Aratus]

ron paul being added to the d.c rally on april 15th helps it along!
ron paul's scheduler then asking once again for him to be part of
the S.D event is coooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool!!!
so how did this sour grapes revisionistic retro-griping ever escalate?

[LibertyInJeopardy]

This whole thing is actually easy to solve.

Issue #1:

Grannywarriors already held an event in DC. That proves they know what they're doing logistically. They say the July 12th march needs two permits.

So, Deb, if there aren't two permits issued it's better to confirm what she's saying and then correct the problem however possible.

I suggest Granny and Deb K start communicating over the phone and help eachother out. Granny - if you would please email Deb your #. Deb - if you would please email Granny your #. Last one to email must drink a cement mixer (and you don't want to do that).

Issue #2:

Grannywarriors are holding a Festival July 2-6th ... Revolution March is holding a march July 12th.

Granny,

Once issue # 1 is resolved will you please encourage everyone who is going to Freedom Festival to attend the July 12th March? Also, will you please help figure out travel arrangements? I found out that Virgin America has great flight deals to DC because they only recently opened the airline. The July 12 march is going for large numbers and we could use your help.

Deb,

Granny had some great suggestions on how to save money and logistics. Please get all the advice you can from her. Once everything is set - which at some point it will be - please help promote attending BOTH events. Also if you find out any useful logistics please let Granny know.


That's the quickest way I can see all this perceived tension dissolving. Everybody just needs to relax a bit and work together because we are more powerful independently working together than disfunctionally pushing apart.

[warriorgranny]

They are being childish in this sense that they came on this forum prior to their event and saw people degrading everything they were doing..
Pushing people away, saying it was a dumb idea...
And now they are returning the favor.

Guess thats karma.

Would you please state just who you are talking about being childish? I am confused either due to age or to the many many posts here that are not making much sense what so ever. Were you at the rally? If so you can verify it was successful. and returning what favor? we have never trashed the march people. I just talked to Debra and it seems that the people putting the trash out here are not even connected with the march organizers that is according to Debra. I don't see the problem here. We aren't trashing them and they are not trashing us so who is it that is so upset by either of our events? Debra did acknowledge that they had made the mistake of not posting their information and will be doing that asap so people will know who it is that is actually organizing this event. That should make it very plain that neither of us is trying to ruin anything for either event. there is room and time for both and many more. perhaps the ones doing all the talking here should have their own event and give us a rest?

[ronpaulhawaii]

[emphasis added]


wow. just wow. i swear...we will be our own undoing. In fighting....not good.

And Linda....I'm sorry, but you're wrong about people on the west coast. I am in the middle of organizing a west coast caravan. ALOT of ppl are wanting to be in DC regardless of the cost. So...no, ur reasoning, well, just doesn't fly in regards to west coasters. THere is no other place we would rather be in July....Washington DC

I am truly offended that you would say the organizers of this march are conning ppl. Way to go! That is a vicious lie Linda and you know it. You are trying to plant seeds of doubt. Why? What you said on daily paul is pure speculation. You are speaking on something you know absolutely nothing about. It's one thing to want to verify things.....but it's another to make assumptions and start spreading rumors, doubt, etc.. As some one who is supposed to be wiser in regards to life experience...you sure aren't setting an example for us younger members of the movement. I used to stick up for the Grannies. I won't anymore. Never again. I was just shocked at some of the rudeness I read. And honestly Linda...I cannot for the life of me figure out why the festival would be so close to July 12. Hmmmmm.

**
But..to each their own. Like I said on daily paul...the festival in sturgis is not going to put a dent in the numbers on July 12. Let them have their festival. We need to focus on the tasks at hand. Delegates, Ron Paul Republicans, and the march. Enough with the silly nothingness being spewed all over this thread. It's not helping the movement at all...it's just one big whack ass distraction. So...just stop.

+1776


This whole thing is actually easy to solve.

Issue #1:

Grannywarriors already held an event in DC. That proves they know what they're doing logistically. They say the July 12th march needs two permits.

So, Deb, if there aren't two permits issued it's better to confirm what she's saying and then correct the problem however possible.

I suggest Granny and Deb K start communicating over the phone and help eachother out. Granny - if you would please email Deb your #. Deb - if you would please email Granny your #. Last one to email must drink a cement mixer (and you don't want to do that).

Issue #2:

Grannywarriors are holding a Festival July 2-6th ... Revolution March is holding a march July 12th.

Granny,

Once issue # 1 is resolved will you please encourage everyone who is going to Freedom Festival to attend the July 12th March? Also, will you please help figure out travel arrangements? I found out that Virgin America has great flight deals to DC because they only recently opened the airline. The July 12 march is going for large numbers and we could use your help.

Deb,

Granny had some great suggestions on how to save money and logistics. Please get all the advice you can from her. Once everything is set - which at some point it will be - please help promote attending BOTH events. Also if you find out any useful logistics please let Granny know.


That's the quickest way I can see all this perceived tension dissolving. Everybody just needs to relax a bit and work together because we are more powerful independently working together than disfunctionally pushing apart.

++2008 - welcome to the forums

[Deborah K]

This whole thing is actually easy to solve.

Issue #1:

Grannywarriors already held an event in DC. That proves they know what they're doing logistically. They say the July 12th march needs two permits.

So, Deb, if there aren't two permits issued it's better to confirm what she's saying and then correct the problem however possible.

I suggest Granny and Deb K start communicating over the phone and help eachother out. Granny - if you would please email Deb your #. Deb - if you would please email Granny your #. Last one to email must drink a cement mixer (and you don't want to do that).

Issue #2:

Grannywarriors are holding a Festival July 2-6th ... Revolution March is holding a march July 12th.

Granny,

Once issue # 1 is resolved will you please encourage everyone who is going to Freedom Festival to attend the July 12th March? Also, will you please help figure out travel arrangements? I found out that Virgin America has great flight deals to DC because they only recently opened the airline. The July 12 march is going for large numbers and we could use your help.

Deb,

Granny had some great suggestions on how to save money and logistics. Please get all the advice you can from her. Once everything is set - which at some point it will be - please help promote attending BOTH events. Also if you find out any useful logistics please let Granny know.


That's the quickest way I can see all this perceived tension dissolving. Everybody just needs to relax a bit and work together because we are more powerful independently working together than disfunctionally pushing apart.


Great minds think alike! ;) As you were writing this, Linda and I were talking.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=135018

[Oyate]

IMHO, none of this is a big deal. Grannies did a great job at their rally, I hope we can do as good a job with RevMarch. I don't care how many people were there, the important thing is they pulled it off. The pictures look great. It looked like a fantastic day.

Come to DC or go to SD, do both. This isn't a competition or a contest. There will be no prizes handed out. This is ALL OF OUR MOVEMENT. Nobody has a monopoly. The important thing is that we're teaching ourselves how to mobilize as a movement.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

This whole thing is actually easy to solve.

Issue #1:

Grannywarriors already held an event in DC. That proves they know what they're doing logistically.

Ah.. no it does not, but the 200 people that came proves no one takes a whole lot of notice of their events.

Enough with splitting the people. This is a serious matter, and if you can't make the sacrifice to come to Washington, you need to reconsider what you're fighting for. We need to make history on the 12th, not fodder for SNL.

[ARealConservative]

Ah.. no it does not, but the 200 people that came proves no one takes a whole lot of notice of their events.

Enough with splitting the people. This is a serious matter, and if you can't make the sacrifice to come to Washington, you need to reconsider what you're fighting for. We need to make history on the 12th, not fodder for SNL.

I'm not making the sacrifice because I find it an enormous waste of time for me personally.

Some people like large group gatherings.

Some people think it will garner major publicity.

For those people, great.

but you cross the line by questioning those of us that don't go.

I would prefer to not say anything to belittle your causes, but when I see that you question the motives of those not coming, I have read enough.

I'm a $2,000 donor. I've given to all the Ron Paul politicians. I am a meetup organizer, a precinct captain, and took drives to the Iowa Straw Poll and the Illinois State Fair Straw poll.

I'm focusing on my local community alone from here on out. I will not be driving or flying across country for this rally.

[steph3n]

I agree and this is why the Libertarian Party is DOOMED. They are disorganized attention whores that all wants the power.

This is not the way it should be.


I agree. Self aggrandizement seems to rule the day. But they aren't the only ones bleeding support from the march. The group "American For A Free Republic" http://www.afr.org/ are doing it too:



So I guess the Ron Paul Revolution is doomed to cannibalize itself in it's infancy. Every little group whining and crying because it does not have primacy, and cannibalizing all the other groups. This is why the Libertarian Party self-destructed and has no impact on American politics today. Selfish self aggrandizing sectarians who care more about seeing their own name up in lights than they do about saving our Republic!

I will continue working to save our nation until I draw my last breath, and I will do everything in my power to work with those who also want to fight the good fight. But it's times like these that I can't help but think that we as a nation, and we as a liberty movement, deserve every failure we encounter on account of our acting like this. :mad: :mad: :mad: splitting our resources when we should be concentrating them, and concentrating our resources when we should be splitting them. :mad: :mad: :mad:

So go on Granny Warriors, do your thing! and go on AFR, do your thing! When the death squads start clearing us house by house, you can die happy knowing you had your fyking 15 minutes up in lights. :( whooppie!

"Look poppa! America is dead! but at least we had fun while she was crashing!"

If we fail in our endeavors, then this is why the Liberty movement will not succeed in America - we always eat our young. Excuse me while I go vomit. And then excuse me again while I go order another 1,000 rounds to have on hand after the total collapse of America.

For the first time since THE AMERICAN REVOLUTION we in the Liberty Movement worked together. ACTUALLY WORKED TOGETHER and we created the Ron Paul Revolution TOGETHER. Now we are splitting off in 100 directions and are destined to fail and die. Well did Benjamin Franklin speak when he said, "We must all hang together, or we will surely hang apart."

But too many of us just don't give a damn about saving our nation. We just want to be the next name on the marquee. Hallelujia! We could have ACTUALLY SAVED OUR NATION but we were too damn busy playing the fyking fiddle while Rome burned.

THANK YOU Granny Warriors! THANK YOU AFP! At least now I'll really get to use my food stores and my generator, and my hand pump for the well. I hope you are still so damn self-satisfied about your selves when the death squads are clearing our neighborhoods!

What the hell ever happened to the concept of self-sacrifice for the sake of the ultimate goal? Are Americans REALLY too fat dumb and happy to understand the concept of giving up their personal glory for the sake of accomplishing the mission?

I'm so damn angry right now that I had best stop writing right here and now.

[torchbearer]

I agree and this is why the Libertarian Party is DOOMED. They are disorganized attention whores that all wants the power.

This is not the way it should be.

WHen did the libertarian party get involved in dc rallies? the LP wasn't even invited.
I know it makes ya feel better to blame something you don't like. but use some sense boy. You are bitching about people being divisive... and then you say something that insults half the people here.

Aren't you then being divisive? and a hypocrit?

[steph3n]

WHen did the libertarian party get involved in dc rallies? the LP wasn't even invited.
I know it makes ya feel better to blame something you don't like. but use some sense boy. You are bitching about people being divisive... and then you say something that insults half the people here.

Aren't you then being divisive? and a hypocrit?

I know they aren't involved, and I don't care if the truth is insulting. The LP can't get along, we need to learn from mistakes and stick together.

[GunnyFreedom]

I know they aren't involved, and I don't care if the truth is insulting. The LP can't get along, we need to learn from mistakes and stick together.

I agree -- pointing out that we are destroying ourselves and our movement by failing to work together is not, itself divisive. I'm sure that some people were offended when Ben Franklin pointed out the same thing in the runup to the American Revolution. That did not, however, make Ben Franklin less correct in his assessment.

[torchbearer]

I agree -- pointing out that we are destroying ourselves and our movement by failing to work together is not, itself divisive. I'm sure that some people were offended when Ben Franklin pointed out the same thing in the runup to the American Revolution. That did not, however, make Ben Franklin less correct in his assessment.

And what I'm saying is the LP in Louisiana as I know it doesn't have this issue, so it is insulting and divisive to continue to say Libertarians are failures because they can't work together. That statement is not true.
You want unity, yet degrade a group of people without warrant.
You can find individuals that don't get along in any group.

SO- are you for unity or just painting an entire group of people as inadequate in the fight for liberty?

[GunnyFreedom]

And what I'm saying is the LP in Louisiana as I know it doesn't have this issue, so it is insulting and divisive to continue to say Libertarians are failures because they can't work together. That statement is not true.
You want unity, yet degrade a group of people without warrant.
You can find individuals that don't get along in any group.

SO- are you for unity or just painting an entire group of people as inadequate in the fight for liberty?

Look, I love the LP. Seriously. But if we want to save the nation then we have to face reality. When is the last time the LP got more than 1% of the national vote?

I'm not trying to be an ass here. But as Albert Einstein said, that "the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."

The problem here is that the Liberty Movement in general is by it's very nature one of the most fractious movements in world history. People of the liberty movement tend to up and decide that they don't like what the other guy is doing so they do their own thing, and this splits the base of support into divergent directions. Why do you think that there was a hard core of Libertarians who HATED Ron Paul this election cycle? Did they not have some one minor point of disagreement, and said "damn that!" they were going to do their own thing because they'd rather stay philosophically pure than to save the nation behind this "Ron Paul guy."

The GW/RM split is an example of this same fractiousness. The April 15th march came about because the GW's insisted that 'the rest of us' can't or won't do anything to make a statement. Then this new gathering is being done because 'the other guys are incompetent, and besides, a Saturday gathering is meaningless.' That's fractiousness, no matter how you look at it.

You may not like it, torchbearer, but we have to do something different than we have done over the last 100 years if we expect different results. If we just bury our heads in the sand and continue with business as usual, then all we will get in our government, I'm sorry to say, is business as usual.

[newyearsrevolution08]

I do agree that we need to use the right "vehicle" to take back the country and the L.P. is not it, nor is the constitutional party for that matter.

I still wish Ron Paul would have "played the game" to get elected then make the changes we need. We don't play on an even playing field and need to MAKE PLAYS HAPPEN and I HOPE Ron Paul has a few things still up his sleeves....

He could have went with a "Basic" platform that would have odds are gotten MASS appeal. I don't think anyone who supports him would even object to this because what matters ARE RESULTS once time goes by. You never remember what happened while bill clinton was running anymore because all we can remember was he was president.

Hindsight is amazing isn't it.

My thoughts, keep it local. Take the nation back city by city and show people IN each city what true liberty is like.

If we get enough cities AWAKE we can get the next election no problem.

Also, stop griping at each other what does it even solve?

The april rally was small, got it but where was yours? at least the grannies TRIED (not directed at ONE person) but don't assume I think we all are not trying because I know we are.

What is happening is what we all knew would happen, too amped up for so long can only go DOWN. Keep a steady effort going with no BIG HIGHS and LOW LOWS but steady and stable and focus on the overall goal here.

I think the grannies said they have been working for 2 years on various issues they are trying to fight and joining in the rp effort was just an extension in their already going effort which is great.

We just also need to remember though that Ron Paul and many others have been fighting for this for 20+ years and are STILL calm, cool and continuing the fight.

get it together people.

[Aratus]

this is where several groups in a losely knit alliance can accomplish more than each group
individually. life becomes less redundant. having money quarrels out in full view is sometimes
a dysfunctionality. also, there are people who have ALREADY given their all. in D.C if people
connect up with the 9/10th of the city that is not an automatic tourist haven or trap, you
swell the figures for any march. its almost a total hubris to go ask people to travel across
the continent for a rally or march you have made impossible for the locals to participate in!

[RonPaulVolunteer]

Washington DC in '08 or FEMA Camp in '09.

[newyearsrevolution08]

Washington DC in '08 or FEMA Camp in '09.

aint that the truth

[jmdrake]

*sigh* This type if infighting is what happens when people really don't anything productive to do or they can't think of anything productive to do. Ron Paul will be in Bowling Green KY in May, that's close to me, KY still has a primary and THAT is the rally I'm going to. For everybody else please have fun at whatever march you attend and quit attacking others for what they do or don't do.

Regards,

John M. Drake

[newyearsrevolution08]

yup, or take that anger and griping and put it into a proactive way. Gripe at obama and mccain fans instead. Lets make sure and stick together even if our overall goal is expanding in so many directions.

We all know what we are for and if we KEEP DOING SOMETHING it will end up being productive UNLESS there is intentional sabotage within the groups.

Either way, get passed this kiddy fighting and get back to work fighting to get our country back. We are ALL on the same side here anyways.

I think we are all just pissed off due to plenty of things that did transpire throughout the various campaign efforts we all took part in. Some were greedy trying to rake in $2k a piece like those blimpsters and some actually WANT to help and do what they can.

Keep fighting just not each other.

[enjoiskaterguy]

Washington DC in '08 or FEMA Camp in '09.

seems that way.

[enjoiskaterguy]

yup, or take that anger and griping and put it into a proactive way. Gripe at obama and mccain fans instead. Lets make sure and stick together even if our overall goal is expanding in so many directions.

We all know what we are for and if we KEEP DOING SOMETHING it will end up being productive UNLESS there is intentional sabotage within the groups.

Either way, get passed this kiddy fighting and get back to work fighting to get our country back. We are ALL on the same side here anyways.

I think we are all just pissed off due to plenty of things that did transpire throughout the various campaign efforts we all took part in. Some were greedy trying to rake in $2k a piece like those blimpsters and some actually WANT to help and do what they can.

Keep fighting just not each other.

I agree with your statements but I'll tell ya man, I'm worried that if we keep having events so close together, with our calapsing monetary system, people won't have the money to spend to go to D.C and our numbers will be slashed in half.

[H Roark]

del

[ronpaulhawaii]

locking this thread, if anyone has a problem with that PM me, thanks