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0zzy
04-27-2008, 12:11 AM
Lawmaker might start for-profit publishing firm, testing bounds of finance rules


WASHINGTON — Ron Paul failed to translate an impressive fundraising operation into widespread support for his 2008 bid for the presidency, but the Lake Jackson Republican still may end up hitting pay dirt.

To further Paul's Libertarian-leaning agenda, his campaign is exploring a novel way to use millions of dollars in leftover donations: setting up a for-profit publishing company that would focus on free-market economics and personal liberties — causes the Texas congressman holds dear.

Political finance experts say such a business venture funded with some $4 million in political cash would test the bounds of federal campaign finance regulations.

"I've never heard of anyone taking their campaign money and putting it into a for-profit corporation," said Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21, an organization that advocates campaign finance reform.
Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5732113.html)

OptionsTrader
04-27-2008, 12:14 AM
Fine with me.

0zzy
04-27-2008, 12:22 AM
If they have a publication company that is as good as Ron Paul's The Revolution: A Manifesto, I think I'd be a great fan!

Which reminds me, there is a pretty good publication company called Palgrave-Macmillan (http://us.macmillan.com/default.aspx) which just published Ain't My America: The Long, Noble History of Antiwar Conservatism and Middle-American Anti-Imperialism (http://us.macmillan.com/aintmyamerica) by Bill Kauffman (and praised by Ron Paul), and publishes anti-imperial books known as the American Empire Project (http://us.macmillan.com/series/AmericanEmpireProject), which produced Chalmers Johnson's Blowback series.

And for you history buffs out there it's also publishing Pure Goldwater (http://us.macmillan.com/puregoldwater)

richardfortherepublic
04-27-2008, 12:23 AM
Good, I was hoping to see something like this since the beginning

yongrel
04-27-2008, 12:27 AM
That is SO much better than blowing it on direct mail.

Conza88
04-27-2008, 12:40 AM
That is fken hilarious! :D
Hahah =
I've never heard of anyone taking their campaign money and putting it into a for-profit corporation," said Fred Wertheimer, president of Democracy 21, an organization that advocates campaign finance reform.

Yeap, no-one quite like Ron Paul. :D

ZzzImAsleep
04-27-2008, 12:44 AM
I'm all right with that. :)

tonyr1988
04-27-2008, 12:49 AM
Crap! THIS IS HORRIBLE

The reading list on the back of The Revolution: A Manifesto will keep me busy for long enough, destroying any social life I had a chance at. Now he wants to start a publishing company? I'll never be able to do anything. :D

yongrel
04-27-2008, 12:50 AM
Harry Potter and the Golden Standard

Published by Revolution Books

0zzy
04-27-2008, 12:55 AM
Harry Potter and the Golden Standard

Published by Revolution Books

rofl

Omphfullas Zamboni
04-27-2008, 12:58 AM
Harry Potter and the Golden Standard

Published by Revolution Books

(Toothy grin).

--Omphfullas Zamboni

Razmear
04-27-2008, 01:01 AM
So do all us donors become shareholders in the company?
If so I'll gladly take about 700 of the 36 million outstanding shares

eb

tonyr1988
04-27-2008, 01:04 AM
Harry Potter and the Golden Standard

Published by Revolution Books

You mean Harry Potter and the Standard of Gold. :)

But really, this is a really really really good idea, and could do wonders to spread the message. After I finish The Revolution, I'm planning on letting my mom borrow it to read (she's always complaining that she wants to get into politics, but doesn't wanna get overwhelmed - she has no excuse now :D).

TruthAtLast
04-27-2008, 01:06 AM
Personally, I'd rather him either spend it supporting Liberty Candidates, or in the remaining state primaries, or in a third party bid (if he decided to run).

He could send out a different email asking for our donations in this separate venture and he'd raise more than the 4 million anyway. I'd rather be a shareholder and have a vested interest in the new company. I'd donate 10 times what I did for the campaign.

But if he used campaign contributions to fund this new business it would be ethically questionable at best and illegal at worst. The supporters who donated to the PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN expect it to be used for that purpose don't get any piece of this new FOR PROFIT company.

Tarzan
04-27-2008, 01:06 AM
Houston Chronicle (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/front/5732113.html)


OK... IF this is true... and that is a very BIG IF:

I am not happy about this at all. The biggest problem I have is who would be in charge. The article says "his campaign is exploring a novel way to use millions of dollars in leftover donations".

So, who is going to run this FOR PROFIT company setup by "leftover" donations? The people running the official campaign? Based on what we have seen from their abilities to market a product (RP for President) and the results they achieved with the millions YOU donated... I say HELL NO!!! If you were a business owner would you hire these people to run a company setup with $4 million dollars of YOUR money? I know my answer would be HELL NO.

Then there is the little issue of "leftover donations". If Ron Paul is going to continue through to at least the GOP National Convention shouldn't we get what we paid for? A genuine presidential campaign effort? If the people running the official campaign had any notion of achieving some real objectives they would be helping us by providing information on how the delegate process works in each state. They would be providing information on how the State & National GOP structure works and helping us take control of the GOP. It appears to me they are busy trying to figure out how to stay employed once the campaign does a final wrap... and are hanging onto as much money as possible to launch their new endeavor. Leftover Donations... there should be little or nothing left and Ron Paul should still be out there campaigning.

I know... someone is going to tell me that Ron Paul has several media appearances scheduled... that he IS still campaigning. I know I am gonna get a lot of flak for this... but the timing of these appearances if very suspicious. Based on RPs campaigning activities over the past several months we now see a sudden spike in activity... just as his "Manifesto" has been released for sale. This seems suspiciously like a book sales tour in the guise of a campaign tour... the YOUR donations are being used to pay for that book tour. I have some serious mixed feelings about this and it does not leave me with a good feeling.

This is the same "technique" the campaign used in Texas when they ran TV ads preceding the primary in Houston... Houston, within easy broadcast range of RPs congressional district. Funny, no one I know or have heard from saw any in Dallas, Ft. Worth or San Antonio. But the presidential campaign donations were used to run ads in Houston... and the folks in his congressional district had the opportunity to see those ads. Perfectly legal... but not the highest in ethical standards. I wonder if they ran any presidential ads in OH, VT, MS, PA... but I am pretty sure of the answer.

The money now belongs to the Ron Paul for President campaign. They have several options for using the money if he loses or drops out. One suggestion has been to donate it all to one of Ron Paul's PACs... the ones he mentioned several weeks ago... one specifically for helping Ron Paul Republicans gain office. We were told this would be part of the "next phase" of this movement. After all these weeks this site has not changed... not one candidate is listed... and, last time I checked, the email address does not even work. Go look for yourself Liberty PAC (http://libertypac.net/). I have the same issues with this idea. Who would be running these PACs? The people who are running the official campaign? If that is the case then I say HELL NO!

This looks like a lame plan by the people running the official campaign to create a "soft landing" for themselves using our donations. We could all contact the campaign and demand a different course of action. But they have been consistently unresponsive in the past and I think that will continue... especially now that they have dollar signs in their eyes... maybe they did all along.

Quite a few Ron Paul supporters made some serious personal and financial sacrifices for this campaign. I wonder how they feel about the money they donated being used to setup a for profit company... run by the same people who gave us the pathetic results and materials we have seen from the official campaign?

All I can do is shout an indignant "OH, HELL NO!!!"... but no one at the campaign will hear it... they certainly won't listen. :(

mdh
04-27-2008, 01:36 AM
I have some reservations as well, but didn't want to be the first to speak up negatively. When people contributed to the national campaign, there was a reasonable expectation that their contributions would go towards promoting Ron Paul's candidacy. At worst, it might go to some other campaign (congressional, perhaps, or even an issues campaign) which Dr. Paul chose to run, or even to a candidate whom he endorsed. These funds were, after all, earmarked for promoting political victories for the cause of liberty. The notion that some of the people who ran this mess of a campaign will now walk away with the money and use it to further profit seems in very poor taste. I'd be fine with it, honestly, if they'd won the presidency. At that point, it'd be earned, deserved even, by those same people. At this point however, this seems downright slimy. How would everyone feel if I took the hundreds of dollars contributed to a PAC I run to go off and start a company to keep myself well paid rather than promoting pro-liberty candidates and issues?

TruthAtLast
04-27-2008, 01:38 AM
I have some reservations as well, but didn't want to be the first to speak up negatively. When people contributed to the national campaign, there was a reasonable expectation that their contributions would go towards promoting Ron Paul's candidacy. At worst, it might go to some other campaign (congressional, perhaps, or even an issues campaign) which Dr. Paul chose to run, or even to a candidate whom he endorsed. These funds were, after all, earmarked for promoting political victories for the cause of liberty. The notion that some of the people who ran this mess of a campaign will now walk away with the money and use it to further profit seems in very poor taste. I'd be fine with it, honestly, if they'd won the presidency. At that point, it'd be earned, deserved even, by those same people. At this point however, this seems downright slimy. How would everyone feel if I took the hundreds of dollars contributed to a PAC I run to go off and start a company to keep myself well paid rather than promoting pro-liberty candidates and issues?

+1

mdh
04-27-2008, 01:40 AM
Personally, I'd rather him either spend it supporting Liberty Candidates, or in the remaining state primaries, or in a third party bid (if he decided to run).

He could send out a different email asking for our donations in this separate venture and he'd raise more than the 4 million anyway. I'd rather be a shareholder and have a vested interest in the new company. I'd donate 10 times what I did for the campaign.

But if he used campaign contributions to fund this new business it would be ethically questionable at best and illegal at worst. The supporters who donated to the PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN and expect it to be used for that purpose don't get any piece of this new FOR PROFIT company.

I really must question the voracity of the report in the OP.

The fact is, it is illegal. And not just at the federal level, either - most states require dissolution clauses for non-profit entities that prevent this sort of thing. Actually, every state I know of does not allow a non-profit to do this. I'd be surprised if any exceptions existed.

Anyone know in which state the PCC is incorporated?

Rhys
04-27-2008, 02:23 AM
OK... IF this is true... and that is a very BIG IF:

I am not happy about this at all. The biggest problem I have is who would be in charge. The article says "his campaign is exploring a novel way to use millions of dollars in leftover donations".

So, who is going to run this FOR PROFIT company setup by "leftover" donations? The people running the official campaign? Based on what we have seen from their abilities to market a product (RP for President) and the results they achieved with the millions YOU donated... I say HELL NO!!! If you were a business owner would you hire these people to run a company setup with $4 million dollars of YOUR money? I know my answer would be HELL NO.

Then there is the little issue of "leftover donations". If Ron Paul is going to continue through to at least the GOP National Convention shouldn't we get what we paid for? A genuine presidential campaign effort? If the people running the official campaign had any notion of achieving some real objectives they would be helping us by providing information on how the delegate process works in each state. They would be providing information on how the State & National GOP structure works and helping us take control of the GOP. It appears to me they are busy trying to figure out how to stay employed once the campaign does a final wrap... and are hanging onto as much money as possible to launch their new endeavor. Leftover Donations... there should be little or nothing left and Ron Paul should still be out there campaigning.

I know... someone is going to tell me that Ron Paul has several media appearances scheduled... that he IS still campaigning. I know I am gonna get a lot of flak for this... but the timing of these appearances if very suspicious. Based on RPs campaigning activities over the past several months we now see a sudden spike in activity... just as his "Manifesto" has been released for sale. This seems suspiciously like a book sales tour in the guise of a campaign tour... the YOUR donations are being used to pay for that book tour. I have some serious mixed feelings about this and it does not leave me with a good feeling.

This is the same "technique" the campaign used in Texas when they ran TV ads preceding the primary in Houston... Houston, within easy broadcast range of RPs congressional district. Funny, no one I know or have heard from saw any in Dallas, Ft. Worth or San Antonio. But the presidential campaign donations were used to run ads in Houston... and the folks in his congressional district had the opportunity to see those ads. Perfectly legal... but not the highest in ethical standards. I wonder if they ran any presidential ads in OH, VT, MS, PA... but I am pretty sure of the answer.

The money now belongs to the Ron Paul for President campaign. They have several options for using the money if he loses or drops out. One suggestion has been to donate it all to one of Ron Paul's PACs... the ones he mentioned several weeks ago... one specifically for helping Ron Paul Republicans gain office. We were told this would be part of the "next phase" of this movement. After all these weeks this site has not changed... not one candidate is listed... and, last time I checked, the email address does not even work. Go look for yourself Liberty PAC (http://libertypac.net/). I have the same issues with this idea. Who would be running these PACs? The people who are running the official campaign? If that is the case then I say HELL NO!

This looks like a lame plan by the people running the official campaign to create a "soft landing" for themselves using our donations. We could all contact the campaign and demand a different course of action. But they have been consistently unresponsive in the past and I think that will continue... especially now that they have dollar signs in their eyes... maybe they did all along.

Quite a few Ron Paul supporters made some serious personal and financial sacrifices for this campaign. I wonder how they feel about the money they donated being used to setup a for profit company... run by the same people who gave us the pathetic results and materials we have seen from the official campaign?

All I can do is shout an indignant "OH, HELL NO!!!"... but no one at the campaign will hear it... they certainly won't listen. :(

-1

A war of words takes words

LibertyEagle
04-27-2008, 02:28 AM
I game my money freely to Ron Paul to use as he saw fit. If this is how he has decided it is best to use part of that money, it's fine with me.

H Roark
04-27-2008, 02:32 AM
If it was a non-profit publishing company, I would be fine with it. Unless I become a shareholder, no one is going to be making a profit off my donation.

The best thing he could do right now is GROW the Liberty PAC and support like-minded candidates!

Razmear
04-27-2008, 02:33 AM
If we are talking about forming a RP Media Empire, we should be thinking about satalite TV channels and mainstream media.
Sadly books aren't very mainstream anymore. (and they don't make ad revenue)
Plus the new venture could employ a lot of tech savy supporters.

acroso
04-27-2008, 02:33 AM
I'd rather see it used for ads attacking mccain..

Rhys
04-27-2008, 02:39 AM
If it was a non-profit publishing company, I would be fine with it. Unless I become a shareholder, no one is going to be making a profit off my donation.

The best thing he could do right now is GROW the Liberty PAC and support like-minded candidates!

for profit does not mean "for making people rich." it's a legalize thing more than a money making thing.

the profit will be speant on more books. A non-profit wouldn't be able to endorse a candidate, for instance.

don't act like Ron Paul is out to make a buck. i think he could have done that already with his job and knowledge. he didn't need us. he could have played the game. he didn't, he's 72. i'm down. i'll donate money to his book company! lol


books, newspapers, magaizines... sky's the limit

and yes, books still make money. people still read books. a lot of us hear are net junkies, but the rest of the world reads books. books make the intellectual world go round.

constituent
04-27-2008, 06:06 AM
i think it is an excellent idea. i didn't catch that the campaign folks would be running it... did i miss something in the article?

Conza88
04-27-2008, 06:10 AM
There IS a reason why this is going to test the currenct financial legislation. BECAUSE, the other legislation is FKED up & oppressive. Yea, not exactly rocket science.

Cowlesy
04-27-2008, 06:46 AM
Personally, I'd rather him either spend it supporting Liberty Candidates, or in the remaining state primaries, or in a third party bid (if he decided to run).

He could send out a different email asking for our donations in this separate venture and he'd raise more than the 4 million anyway. I'd rather be a shareholder and have a vested interest in the new company. I'd donate 10 times what I did for the campaign.

But if he used campaign contributions to fund this new business it would be ethically questionable at best and illegal at worst. The supporters who donated to the PRESIDENTIAL CAMPAIGN expect it to be used for that purpose don't get any piece of this new FOR PROFIT company.


I agree. There are plenty of candidates out there which Ron could give $5,000 booster shots to from his Liberty PAC, as well as help with spreading the word.

His staff can't form a for-profit company with political donations and magically turn it into shareholder's (who is the shareholder?) equity. Maybe the RPPCC, Inc. could make a loan to a NewCo? That's the only way I could see it being an arms-length transaction.

I don't know. As long as it is not run by the same goobers who ran the campaign, I'd be open to the idea, but I think we all need to learn more.

crhoades
04-27-2008, 06:50 AM
I would like him to spend it on whatever would promote liberty the most. My only thought regarding the publishing company is what of the Mises Institute? They have been good stewards of money with the conferences, the center, and have published many books already. I'm sure a 4 million infusion would help to set it up even further. Why reinvent the wheel? And fwiw, Mises.org is non-profit.

tajitj
04-27-2008, 07:17 AM
Great idea. That way Ron Paul Republicans can write a book using his publishing company and use their own funds to run. I will buy every book coming out of the pub house. I know many others will.

richardfortherepublic
04-27-2008, 07:20 AM
I change my mind after last nights events in Reno.

GIVE THE FUCKING MONEY TO THE GRASSROOTS NOW!

constituent
04-27-2008, 07:21 AM
Great idea. That way Ron Paul Republicans can write a book using his publishing company and use their own funds to run. I will buy every book coming out of the pub house. I know many others will.

exactly. now for a promotions company that will book venues and handle ticket sales for speaking engagements. compensate the individuals who are running for office for their time as you would any performer allowing them to donate to their own campaigns.

silverhandorder
04-27-2008, 07:23 AM
I support this venture :P.

Conza88
04-27-2008, 07:24 AM
I change my mind after last nights events in Reno.

GIVE THE FUCKING MONEY TO THE GRASSROOTS NOW!


http://www.funnypicturefunnyphoto.com/funny-picture-photo-sign-ninjas-lOckergnOme-pic.jpg

richardfortherepublic
04-27-2008, 07:27 AM
Yea, and you shouldn't feed bears.

steve005
04-27-2008, 07:51 AM
Do It!!!

Bradley in DC
04-27-2008, 08:57 AM
Just sos I understand this right, while the official campaign staff should have been paying $100 for Dr. Paul to appear in the Oregon voter guide--you know, so people who want to know about him and that he's supposed to be running for president, they instead are dreaming up this sh*t? :eek: :mad: :confused:

rancher89
04-27-2008, 09:18 AM
OK, Rant begins

If he has millions of dollars left, why isn't he spending it on supporting the grassroots effort in NC (and the other remaining states)??????? We have one week and 2 days......Where are the ads, the newpaper articles?? If we could get the vote % up to where it was in PA, NC could be really big.......but no, we get one day of his presence in NC, no Rand, no nothing???? No phone banks, no direct mailers, nothing.

No wonder most people in the state don't even know he's still on the ticket. I don't mean to be overly negative, but I think Tarzan is right, we need to spend some of that money on the campaign, NOW....I know of people in this state who have ordered signs and lit over three months ago, and haven't even received an explanation why their stuff hasn't even been shipped.

We are feeling really neglected down here and a lot of us spent most of our spare time in SC trying to get out the vote. So many of our group are discouraged by the lack of attention by the campaign, and they have a right to feel that way. Unfortunately, it has led us to smaller numbers of VERY dedicated freedom lovers. If what's been happening to our supporters in the other state and district conventions can be used in some way to boost the interest of our "fallen" supporters, and to peak the interest of the "on the fence" voters, maybe we could get more people to vote for RP.....Just wishful thinking, I know, but come on?!?!?

angelatc
04-27-2008, 09:27 AM
Personally, I'd rather him either spend it supporting Liberty Candidates, or in the remaining state primaries, or in a third party bid (if he decided to run).

He could send out a different email asking for our donations in this separate venture and he'd raise more than the 4 million anyway. I'd rather be a shareholder and have a vested interest in the new company. I'd donate 10 times what I did for the campaign.


Soliciting stock in upstart companies is tightly regulated. Most of us probably don't financially qualify to even receive a prospectus.

If his campaign was over I might be ok with the idea of him investing the money, but the campaign isn't over. The GOP is stealing the delegae positions away from the campaign, They could sure use some resources.

There are a dozen or so people committed into jumping into the fray as a direct result of his call. He could and should use the money to support them.

RonPaulFever
04-27-2008, 09:27 AM
OK, Rant begins

If he has millions of dollars left, why isn't he spending it on supporting the grassroots effort in NC (and the other remaining states)??????? We have one week and 2 days......Where are the ads, the newpaper articles?? If we could get the vote % up to where it was in PA, NC could be really big.......but no, we get one day of his presence in NC, no Rand, no nothing???? No phone banks, no direct mailers, nothing.

No wonder most people in the state don't even know he's still on the ticket. I don't mean to be overly negative, but I think Tarzan is right, we need to spend some of that money on the campaign, NOW....I know of people in this state who have ordered signs and lit over three months ago, and haven't even received an explanation why their stuff hasn't even been shipped.

We are feeling really neglected down here and a lot of us spent most of our spare time in SC trying to get out the vote. So many of our group are discouraged by the lack of attention by the campaign, and they have a right to feel that way. Unfortunately, it has led us to smaller numbers of VERY dedicated freedom lovers. If what's been happening to our supporters in the other state and district conventions can be used in some way to boost the interest of our "fallen" supporters, and to peak the interest of the "on the fence" voters, maybe we could get more people to vote for RP.....Just wishful thinking, I know, but come on?!?!?

Folks have been asking these same questions for months. And the answer is simple: Ron Paul has no desire to be President. Face this fact and everything the "campaign" has done makes sense.

angelatc
04-27-2008, 09:31 AM
for profit does not mean "for making people rich." it's a legalize thing more than a money making thing.

the profit will be speant on more books. A non-profit wouldn't be able to endorse a candidate, for instance.

.

That'a not true. Charitable non-profits (501 (c) 3) cannot endorse candidates. But other non-profits absolutely can.

angelatc
04-27-2008, 09:32 AM
Folks have been asking these same questions for months. And the answer is simple: Ron Paul has no desire to be President. Face this fact and everything the "campaign" has done makes sense.

That might be true. But if he wants to be the father of a revolution, then he needs to spend the money on his soldiers.

rancher89
04-27-2008, 09:33 AM
Folks have been asking these same questions for months. And the answer is simple: Ron Paul has no desire to be President. Face this fact and everything the "campaign" has done makes sense.

I know, I was just ranting, should have posted it in "rants".......

kirkblitz
04-27-2008, 10:02 AM
and im sure jesse benton will be the CEO of this new company. that fuck :(

RonPaulFever
04-27-2008, 10:10 AM
Like several of you, I'm a broke ass college student who gave FAR more than I could afford to the campaign. If I had known the money was going to be used for some bullshit book company I would have kept the money and bought something useful, you know, like clothes or food. :rolleyes:

Conza88
04-27-2008, 10:19 AM
Like several of you, I'm a broke ass college student who gave FAR more than I could afford to the campaign. If I had known the money was going to be used for some bullshit book company I would have kept the money and bought something useful, you know, like clothes or food. :rolleyes:

I am assuming it will basically be used to wake people up.
Kind of the point of a revolution...:rolleyes:

kirkblitz
04-27-2008, 10:21 AM
no one wants to be fucken woken up for 20 dollars a pop. I'm not gonna rush out and buy hillarys new book to be woken up. It will have to be free or im not touching it.

amy31416
04-27-2008, 10:34 AM
I'll reserve judgment until I learn more about it, specifically who runs it, who benefits from it and exactly what the goals are.

adam1mc
04-27-2008, 10:34 AM
Personally, I would have rather him used all of that money months ago when we were all campaigning our asses off. I heard Obama and Hillary ad's all over the radio. I only heard 1 R.P. ad.

I'm glad the revolution is continuting... but I'm still sad that this attempt failed. I contributed my hard earned money in order for R.P. to win the White House, not so he could setup a publishing company.

4 million dollars could have educated a lot of people pre-Super Tuesday.

Yeah, Go Revolution... All the while we WILL have a Obama/Clinton/McCain ticket. I'm so not thrilled about that idea.

The One
04-27-2008, 10:47 AM
Folks have been asking these same questions for months. And the answer is simple: Ron Paul has no desire to be President. Face this fact and everything the "campaign" has done makes sense.


If RP doesn't/didn't want to be President, that information should probably have been shared with everyone a long time ago.....ya know, like before people gave money they didn't have to support a goal that was never really meant to be achieved.

scotto2008
04-27-2008, 11:33 AM
I am assuming it will basically be used to wake people up.
Kind of the point of a revolution...:rolleyes:

There is no shortage of information, discussion and passionate appeals for liberty. The Mises Institute (mises.com) has published a wealth of historical and contemporary literature on freedom.

I think the money should be used to support boots-on-the-ground efforts, and disseminated via popular media, where the untapped brain power of the masses (such as it is) languishes in ignorance.

rancher89
04-27-2008, 11:33 AM
I feel used

Kludge
04-27-2008, 11:38 AM
If RP doesn't/didn't want to be President, that information should probably have been shared with everyone a long time ago.....ya know, like before people gave money they didn't have to support a goal that was never really meant to be achieved.

This is true... But it's been near-fact for many months that Dr. Paul had no chance at presidency. Most of those whistle-blowers are banned now... *shrug*

TruthAtLast
04-27-2008, 11:53 AM
Ron Paul is afraid to ask us for anything. I had signed up for Huck's newsletter and he was sending how emails ever two days asking for money. If Ron Paul wanted to start this venture, then ASK US. Most of us would gladly invest in his idea once given more information on it. Clearly we responded when he asked us for help in his Congressional race. With no planning we spontaneously dropped $1 million into his coffers in about 48 hours.

But we saw the impact that some hard work and a few thousand dollars in High Tide Video spots made in PA. There are other RED states left that we can win. That is what we donated the money for. And there are liberty candidates that actually have a shot at winning that need help. I'm not saying spend all of it on the remaining states. Heck, spend just $1 million. Then spend $2 million on liberty candidates and keep $1 million to keep the campaign going or whatever.

Doesn't Ron Paul WANT other like-minded people on Congress to help him? Seriously... he has the ability to do something about it.

He acts like that $4-$5 million is all the money he'll ever get and he is holding on to every penny. How much money have we indirectly given him through buying his book? I bought 15 copies myself.

The reason why we aren't donating more is mostly because it appears he either doesn't need it, won't do anything with it, or there are grassroots efforts that need our support BECAUSE he doesn't help these projects himself.

When I say "he" I don't necessarily mean just Ron Paul but the National Campaign in general.

WRellim
04-27-2008, 11:58 AM
This is true... But it's been near-fact for many months that Dr. Paul had no chance at presidency. Most of those whistle-blowers are banned now... *shrug*

Nah, not banned... just don't hang around all that much (in part because we have lives to live) and otherwise in disgust over Kool-Aid drinkers, following the maxim:


Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time...




AND it just annoys the pig.



:eek:

Cinderella
04-27-2008, 12:02 PM
i dont like this idea one bit....as many have said the point of donating was for his PRESIDENCY not some publishing company...i feel like i was lied to...the campaign didnt do their work to get ron paul advertised....why did they wait this long to spend money?!?!?! i never heard any ads for ron paul in massachusetts....this makes me sick...if they wanted to go this route then they could have asked for donations for this idea...dont take the money that is supposed to be used for his presidency especially since the race isnt over!!!! this is bullshit and i feel conned.....THIS IS A DAMN CON!!!!!!!!!!!!

UtahApocalypse
04-27-2008, 12:09 PM
I don't think this should fly. Using the campaign to finance a profit venture with no return to the original investors stinks.

I LOVE the idea of a 'Liberty' book company, and would gladly invest in such a venture. But taking money that was invested with another intent is quite unethical.

Campaign money should be used to fund campaigns. If we want to start a book company to support liberty ask for some investors.

TruthAtLast
04-27-2008, 12:11 PM
I don't think this should fly. Using the campaign to finance a profit venture with no return to the original investors stinks.

I LOVE the idea of a 'Liberty' book company, and would gladly invest in such a venture. But taking money that was invested with another intent is quite unethical.

Campaign money should be used to fund campaigns. If we want to start a book company to support liberty ask for some investors.

+1 my point exactly.

Gadsden Flag
04-27-2008, 12:20 PM
Hmm, I don't really like this idea.

mczerone
04-27-2008, 12:22 PM
So do all us donors become shareholders in the company?
If so I'll gladly take about 700 of the 36 million outstanding shares

eb

I'd like to see that be the case, the campaign has records of donors - distribute shares based on money donated, in a ratio according to the 'leftover' money. I'd give Ron Paul 50% of the shares if the donors split the remaining 50%. (percentages are up to negotiation)

What he does to win the presidency with our donations is totally up the the official campaign, but if they start spending money Not for the expressed purpose of winning in 2008, that is contrary to the situation donors understood when donating. To reconcile this, he should relinquish some control of the future direction of the money to those who donated.

Otherwise, I'd consider opening a class action suit for breach of contract.

mczerone
04-27-2008, 12:29 PM
OK, Rant begins

If he has millions of dollars left, why isn't he spending it on supporting the grassroots effort in NC (and the other remaining states)??????? We have one week and 2 days......Where are the ads, the newpaper articles?? If we could get the vote % up to where it was in PA, NC could be really big.......but no, we get one day of his presence in NC, no Rand, no nothing???? No phone banks, no direct mailers, nothing.

No wonder most people in the state don't even know he's still on the ticket. I don't mean to be overly negative, but I think Tarzan is right, we need to spend some of that money on the campaign, NOW....I know of people in this state who have ordered signs and lit over three months ago, and haven't even received an explanation why their stuff hasn't even been shipped.

We are feeling really neglected down here and a lot of us spent most of our spare time in SC trying to get out the vote. So many of our group are discouraged by the lack of attention by the campaign, and they have a right to feel that way. Unfortunately, it has led us to smaller numbers of VERY dedicated freedom lovers. If what's been happening to our supporters in the other state and district conventions can be used in some way to boost the interest of our "fallen" supporters, and to peak the interest of the "on the fence" voters, maybe we could get more people to vote for RP.....Just wishful thinking, I know, but come on?!?!?

And NO ONE CAN COMPLAIN if he's spending the money on campaigning!

Take extra Jet trips, hold a big fancy gala in a big city (and don't ask for more donations), have more TV/Radio AND INTERNET ads.

At this point, it doesn't have to be money well spent, just spend the money how it was meant to be spent.

mdh
04-27-2008, 04:20 PM
That'a not true. Charitable non-profits (501 (c) 3) cannot endorse candidates. But other non-profits absolutely can.

That's not true, either. Only a 527 can endorse candidates for federal office. Other non-charity non-profits (speaking in terms of IRS entity types here) such as 501(c)4's cannot either. A 501(c)3 is the only type to which donations are tax-deductible, and their interactions with politics is strictly regulated. The regulations are more lax on, say, a 501(c)4 social welfare organization, but it still can't endorse or campaign for candidates.

torchbearer
04-27-2008, 04:23 PM
its a story put out in hopes of causing division among the "well organized" Paul supporters who are raping the faces of McCain's gestapo.
Psy-war anyone?
Will you fall for it?

Did you notice when this story came out? Just in time to bump the NV story off the google top news searches?

mdh
04-27-2008, 05:07 PM
its a story put out in hopes of causing division among the "well organized" Paul supporters who are raping the faces of McCain's gestapo.
Psy-war anyone?
Will you fall for it?

Did you notice when this story came out? Just in time to bump the NV story off the google top news searches?

If you're right, this is 10x more troubling than you suggest, as they quote a campaign staffer. You're practically alleging that some campaign staffers are not on board with what is supposed to be the point of this campaign. While I have somewhat harsh criticism for the national campaign, I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that they were somehow out to sink it in that way. It comes back to Occum's Razor (never attribute to malice that which is just as easily attributable to incompetence.)

parke
04-27-2008, 05:18 PM
I was hoping he would do something good with the money he had left.. My idea was to throw a big party called 'Dubya can kiss my ass'.

torchbearer
04-27-2008, 05:18 PM
If you're right, this is 10x more troubling than you suggest, as they quote a campaign staffer. You're practically alleging that some campaign staffers are not on board with what is supposed to be the point of this campaign. While I have somewhat harsh criticism for the national campaign, I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe that they were somehow out to sink it in that way. It comes back to Occum's Razor (never attribute to malice that which is just as easily attributable to incompetence.)

Let me put it this way.. in our "Coordination Meet-up group" in Louisiana.
The confederation group of all our meet-up coordinators, there were operatives there who at first pretended to be on our side, but as it came time to convention, were just moles telling the other side our info and causing disruption that last past the convention.
They were outed way too late and I don't believe Louisiana is a special case.
If it looks like a duck and smells like a duck... AFLACK!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/64246630_a8e86b6275.jpg

mdh
04-27-2008, 05:26 PM
Let me put it this way.. in our "Coordination Meet-up group" in Louisiana.
The confederation group of all our meet-up coordinators, there were operatives there who at first pretended to be on our side, but as it came time to convention, were just moles telling the other side our info and causing disruption that last past the convention.
They were outed way too late and I don't believe Louisiana is a special case.
If it looks like a duck and smells like a duck... AFLACK!

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/25/64246630_a8e86b6275.jpg

We didn't have any of that here in WV. The Huckabee folks copied some of our releases verbatim, etc, but nothing private, just the releases we'd put out. :)

slacker921
04-27-2008, 05:32 PM
Torchbearer is dead on here..
Remember the e-mail that went out on the eve of the Washington caucuses that most likely prevented a win? There have been a couple of other e-mails that went out from the Paul campaign that caused a lot of people to abandon the grassroots efforts. Have you seen an e-mail from the Paul campaign recently?

This is a stupendously bad idea.
The only tiny reason I can come up with that would make this idea sensible is if Ron Paul is going to send out his books and other books for free to loads of people and for legal reasons it needs to be a for profit corporation. If he's going to send his book to all national delegates, then that would be some fine use of the campaign money. Even better would be sending the book to registered Republicans in remaining states... unfortunately they've waited too long to help NC.

torchbearer
04-27-2008, 05:34 PM
We didn't have any of that here in WV. The Huckabee folks copied some of our releases verbatim, etc, but nothing private, just the releases we'd put out. :)

Were you considered a threat in WV?
We had the numbers to take over there convention in Louisiana.
They scuttle the whole process here.

My implications are centered more on the gateways of propoganda.
They can take anyone's words and in their own twisted context make a "factual" news story out of it.

If you look at the timing of divisive Ron Paul stories... and how those stories really aren't that news worthy in compare to the delegate revolts...
It adds up to something not too good.

Why would the McCain people fight against Ron winning any state if McCain has already won the nomination?
1. they don't want this movement to gain strength.
2. they aren't confident they really have the nomination
3. fill in the blank

GunnyFreedom
04-27-2008, 05:58 PM
This whole thing stinks of disinformation to me. I can't imagine RP being that stupid -- he is way too intelligent to do something like this. And the only Benton quote I have seen doesn't seem to support this nonsense either. I'll wait for an official statement from RP08. Thanks.

RCA
04-27-2008, 06:06 PM
I'm sadly disappointed by this news. This idea sounds very un-Ron Paul to me. Would I have donated almost a thousand dollars of my hard earned money to someone so they can start a business? No, no matter who they are.

My sole purpose for donating money was to get a decent POTUS. There's plenty of reading material already available to people to know the "truth". If Ron Paul doesn't use the money for an independent run, the only other option I would be okay with would be to split the money up to other liberty minded candidates. I suddenly feel sick to my stomach.

I can only hope his information is hearsay.

mdh
04-27-2008, 06:08 PM
Were you considered a threat in WV?
We had the numbers to take over there convention in Louisiana.
They scuttle the whole process here.

I dunno if I'd say threat. We made a powerful showing and they knew we would. We walked away with 3 national delegates, while the establishment guy Romney got nada.

The state GOP here hasn't be hostile towards us in general, though. The chairman is a decent guy and is even a proponent of free market economics. He's a surgeon by trade and went to med school with a buddy of mine. It's sad all this stuff has happened in some states, but WV has not been one of them. McCain had very little support here, I should note.

torchbearer
04-27-2008, 06:09 PM
I'm sadly disappointed by this news. This idea sounds very un-Ron Paul to me. Would I have donated almost a thousand dollars of my hard earned money to someone so they can start a business? No, no matter who they are.

My sole purpose for donating money was to get a decent POTUS. There's plenty of reading material already available to people to know the "truth". If Ron Paul doesn't use the money for an independent run, the only other option I would be okay with would be to split the money up to other liberty minded candidates. I suddenly feel sick to my stomach.

I can only hope his information is hearsay.

This information was put out by the media/propaganda gateways for the sole purpose to make Ron Paul supporters feel "sadly disappointed".

I suffer from hyper-vigilance and ocd. I notice trends, that is what drew me to sociology.
News patterns are becoming more obvious.

1. April 23rd - story hits about more spies being found/arrested in connection with the long string of Israeli spys in the u.s.
Washington fallout feared over second Israeli spy arrest

http://www.scopical.com.au/articles/...eli_spy_arrest

2. April 23rd(later in day)- story of nukes in syria? (look over here.. not over there)

3. april 25th, nukes a hoax



another example.

1. April 26th Ron Paul delegates out-flank McCain in Nevada....

2. April 26th (later in day) Ron Paul to use funds for a "for-profit"



. Let's use a local example.
If someone makes a post on this forum that exposes your dirt.
You respond by distraction... (showing their dirt...etc)
serves two purposes.... the later thread/story bumps the previous.

If we look furthur back you will this trend.

connect the dots.

GunnyFreedom
04-27-2008, 06:17 PM
This information was put out by the media/propaganda gateways for the sole purpose to make Ron Paul supporters feel "sadly disappointed".

I suffer from hyper-vigilance and ocd. I notice trends, that is what drew me to sociology.
News patterns are becoming more obvious.

1. April 23rd - story hits about more spies being found/arrested in connection with the long string of Israeli spys in the u.s.
Washington fallout feared over second Israeli spy arrest

http://www.scopical.com.au/articles/...eli_spy_arrest

2. April 23rd(later in day)- story of nukes in syria? (look over here.. not over there)

3. april 25th, nukes a hoax



another example.

1. April 26th Ron Paul delegates out-flank McCain in Nevada....

2. April 26th (later in day) Ron Paul to use funds for a "for-profit"



. Let's use a local example.
If someone makes a post on this forum that exposes your dirt.
You respond by distraction... (showing their dirt...etc)
serves two purposes.... the later thread/story bumps the previous.

If we look furthur back you will this trend.

connect the dots.

I'm with you on this. This has the feel of blatant lies and character assassination to me. Since when do RP-ers believe FauxNews anyway?

Penners
04-27-2008, 06:59 PM
I have some reservations as well, but didn't want to be the first to speak up negatively. When people contributed to the national campaign, there was a reasonable expectation that their contributions would go towards promoting Ron Paul's candidacy. At worst, it might go to some other campaign (congressional, perhaps, or even an issues campaign) which Dr. Paul chose to run, or even to a candidate whom he endorsed. These funds were, after all, earmarked for promoting political victories for the cause of liberty. The notion that some of the people who ran this mess of a campaign will now walk away with the money and use it to further profit seems in very poor taste. I'd be fine with it, honestly, if they'd won the presidency. At that point, it'd be earned, deserved even, by those same people. At this point however, this seems downright slimy. How would everyone feel if I took the hundreds of dollars contributed to a PAC I run to go off and start a company to keep myself well paid rather than promoting pro-liberty candidates and issues?

+1

liberteebell
04-27-2008, 07:04 PM
This information was put out by the media/propaganda gateways for the sole purpose to make Ron Paul supporters feel "sadly disappointed".

I suffer from hyper-vigilance and ocd. I notice trends, that is what drew me to sociology.
News patterns are becoming more obvious.

1. April 23rd - story hits about more spies being found/arrested in connection with the long string of Israeli spys in the u.s.
Washington fallout feared over second Israeli spy arrest

http://www.scopical.com.au/articles/...eli_spy_arrest

2. April 23rd(later in day)- story of nukes in syria? (look over here.. not over there)

3. april 25th, nukes a hoax



another example.

1. April 26th Ron Paul delegates out-flank McCain in Nevada....

2. April 26th (later in day) Ron Paul to use funds for a "for-profit"



. Let's use a local example.
If someone makes a post on this forum that exposes your dirt.
You respond by distraction... (showing their dirt...etc)
serves two purposes.... the later thread/story bumps the previous.

If we look furthur back you will this trend.

connect the dots.

+1

The Propaganda Machine in action.

mczerone
04-27-2008, 09:51 PM
It comes back to Occum's Razor (never attribute to malice that which is just as easily attributable to incompetence.)

This reply seems to apply to a general situation, but is directed to this topic, in specific.

First: The maxim is only one example of how to apply Occam's Razor: which is that the simple solution is most often the right one.

Second: Whether we accept Incompetence or corruption as the 'reason', neither should be tolerated.

Third (and this is for the general situation of those who make wild claims): We must allow too much incompetence and coincidence for many of the individual 'conspiracy theories' to be true, and this does make it a simple (and thus more likely) solution that there was some conspiracy, somewhere, about even a few of those claims.

dirknb@hotmail.com
04-27-2008, 10:45 PM
I wouldn't believe it unless RP says it.

I think he should use some of the money to produce a kick-ass documentary that basically tells the story of the new book in video form. One that can then be duplicated and distributed en masse via DVD's and the internet. It's easier to get someone sit down for two hours to watch a good documentary than it is to get them to read a book. Video is the most powerful tool for reaching the masses. AFTF is pretty good, and he endorsed it as well as appears in it, but one that is a RP production could be an awesome educational tool.

Otherwise, I would think a good use of some of the money would be to provide free copies of the book to as many people as possible in all levels of government.

GunnyFreedom
04-27-2008, 11:13 PM
I wouldn't believe it unless RP says it.



+1000

enjoiskaterguy
04-27-2008, 11:16 PM
I'll believe it when I see it come out of his mouth. I personally think he should keep pushing advertising. Hell, thats why I gave him my own money.

H Roark
04-28-2008, 12:13 AM
I think the fact that there is 4 million left in the bank shows you how inept the campaign was. If this publisher idea WERE to be true, it would just add insult to injury. I sure as hell will have second thoughts contributing next time if I know its not going to be spent trying to win the race in the first place.

The least Ron Paul could do is fund his Liberty PAC, which by the looks of his website is nowhere right now! I am sick of all this education, the knowledge is out there and the ones who seek it have found it already. I'm starting to think that Ron Paul relishes being the underdog.

Kludge
04-28-2008, 12:31 AM
I think the fact that there is 4 million left in the bank shows you how inept the campaign was. If this publisher idea WERE to be true, it would just add insult to injury. I sure as hell will have second thoughts contributing next time if I know its not going to be spent trying to win the race in the first place. The least Ron Paul could do is fund his Liberty PAC, which by the looks of his website is nowhere right now! I am sick of all this education, the knowledge is out there and the ones who seek it have found it already. I'm starting to think that Ron Paul relishes being the underdog.
·
·
*gasp* That is the talk of tReason, as called by our fellow Paultards!
·
·
Stay local, educate locally through aggressive means (leaving magazines about, starting up an "info booth" at fairs, flea markets etc., becoming a teacher or even a substitute), and then go for LOCAL offices. Slow and steady wins the race. We can't expect to just chuck a bunch of info into cyberspace and say "It's out there, just go look!" because people aren't interested - they don't want to waste their time on "whack-job philosophy" and Racist/Anarchist/Heartless Retards from Teh Interwebz. We need to bring the information to them on OUR time.

Edit: Why are line breaks via "enter" key no longer registering when I save a post???

Akus
04-28-2008, 02:21 AM
this blows

i was under this naive impression that Campaign money was for exactly that, a campaign, silly me:mad:

GunnyFreedom
04-28-2008, 02:35 AM
this blows

i was under this naive impression that Campaign money was for exactly that, a campaign, silly me:mad:

Why the frell are you buying a Fox News hit piece?

mdh
04-28-2008, 02:47 AM
Because Jesse Benton said it.

Benton said options include supporting like-minded candidates through Paul's Liberty PAC; donating leftover money to Paul's FREE Foundation, the 501(c)3 organization that publishes his newsletter; trying to influence public policy through a 501(c)4 nonprofit group; or creating "something inventive and entrepreneurial" like a for-profit corporation to produce publications.

GunnyFreedom
04-28-2008, 02:56 AM
Because Jesse Benton said it.

Benton said options include supporting like-minded candidates through Paul's Liberty PAC; donating leftover money to Paul's FREE Foundation, the 501(c)3 organization that publishes his newsletter; trying to influence public policy through a 501(c)4 nonprofit group; or creating "something inventive and entrepreneurial" like a for-profit corporation to produce publications.

Benton has a history of diarrhea of the mouth, that sounds like unsanctioned random speculation to me. I mean, seriously guys, where have you been the last 12 months? Benton always goes off on random tangents that turn out to be meaningless. He said something stupid that hasn't a snowballs chance in hell of making it past Ron Paul, and Fox News launched at what they saw as an opportunity to demonize Ron Paul.

I won't believe a word of it until and unless I hear it straight from the horses mouth. And I DON'T have a 'fanboy' complex. I just have a decent memory when it comes to Jesse Benton.

constituent
04-28-2008, 06:09 AM
I won't believe a word of it until and unless I hear it straight from the horses mouth. And I DON'T have a 'fanboy' complex. I just have a decent memory when it comes to Jesse Benton.

\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/\/

robert4rp08
04-28-2008, 06:14 AM
I Approve

mdh
04-28-2008, 02:00 PM
Benton has a history of diarrhea of the mouth, that sounds like unsanctioned random speculation to me. I mean, seriously guys, where have you been the last 12 months? Benton always goes off on random tangents that turn out to be meaningless. He said something stupid that hasn't a snowballs chance in hell of making it past Ron Paul, and Fox News launched at what they saw as an opportunity to demonize Ron Paul.

I won't believe a word of it until and unless I hear it straight from the horses mouth. And I DON'T have a 'fanboy' complex. I just have a decent memory when it comes to Jesse Benton.

If Benton is such a loose cannon, how come he hasn't been fired? This is a damned political campaign, every word should be carefully chosen and dissected.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
04-28-2008, 02:55 PM
I trust Ron with the donations. He knows what he's doing.
He is still campaigning (spoke at the Nevada caucus, Montana, etc).

This is an information war that won't be won by purchasing 30 second sound bites on the MSM.

sophocles07
04-28-2008, 02:57 PM
A publishing company sounds very good; it sounds like something potentially offering a stable source of ideas.

WRellim
04-28-2008, 03:09 PM
If Benton is such a loose cannon, how come he hasn't been fired?

Jesse Benton can NOT be fired.

He's virtually family now.

Literally; he's engaged to one of RP's granddaughters.

Jeesh, have a heart.



BTW, regarding Jesse Benton's wonderful "work" for the campaign... see the following:
http://icestationtango.blogspot.com/2008/04/life-and-death-of-my-ron-paul-interview.html


'nuff said.

LittleLightShining
04-28-2008, 03:19 PM
First off, I HATE this idea. I hate it hate it hate it. Give it to the grassroots. Or at least take some tips from the grassroots and advertise advertise advertise. Does he want to get the message out? Why not try to sway VOTERS not people already involved in the R3VOlution? By turning our hard-earned money into a business? Get the message out to the non-book reading, American Idol watching average Joes? I hate this. I know I didn't give him my money to start a business. I gave it to him to try to become the President of the United States of America for crying out loud. I really hope this isn't true. Otherwise we are all the biggest suckers ever.
Folks have been asking these same questions for months. And the answer is simple: Ron Paul has no desire to be President. Face this fact and everything the "campaign" has done makes sense.“I’m a real candidate, but I try to keep everybody living in the real world,” Ron Paul said in an interview, alluding to the exuberance of his supporters.
(http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0408/9886.html)

sophocles07
04-28-2008, 03:26 PM
By turning our hard-earned money into a business? Get the message out to the non-book reading, American Idol watching average Joes? I hate this.

To be honest, I don't think this "revolution" is going to happen if you are ok with allowing the average moron to continue being an average, non-literate moron. A peaceful revolution of ideas, as I see it, cannot succeed by pandering to Bernie Potbelly whose hands are too messy from Cheese Puffs to flip through a book that could save him, his family, and his country.

richardfortherepublic
04-28-2008, 04:39 PM
Unfortunately, as small as the book is, the majority of people don't want to read. Those who are reading, are usually more "informed/awake" and intelligent, as they are probably using their time reading, rather then watching TV...besides, the number of readers in this country is something like 10-20% at best.

The fact is, we cannot get the contingency we need by just simply publishing books, But on the other hand, a publishing company would be a good investment for Dr.Paul and the movement. That being said, we shouldn't take food from our tables and throw it in the fire for fuel, when you got another source of fuel thats about to be ready for harvest.

The book will generate quite enough money to start a publishing operation.

richardfortherepublic
04-28-2008, 04:43 PM
I also wouldn't be surprised if this story was fabricated either.

Ron's response to a third party run has always been, Ive raised millions of dollars as a Republican, and have always been part of the GOP...etc...so what would people think if I left for a third party?

I doubt he would take our money and split.

joemiller
04-29-2008, 08:30 AM
It comes back to Occum's Razor (never attribute to malice that which is just as easily attributable to incompetence.)

I thought the quote was: "Never attribute to malice what ignorance can explain"?

Be that as it may, I don't believe this silly idea really emanated from Dr. Paul. For one, the campaign isn't over. Oddly enough, I think most of us here strongly believe that Ron Paul's campaign contributions should be spent on his presidential campaign.

However, if a private, for-profit enterprise is to be purchased with "our" campaign contributions, we "contributors, should then be the corporation's shareholders. In this respect, this suggestion would fulfil the basic tenet of what I think should rightfully be done with any left-over campaign funds -- given back to the contributors in some form or fashion.

And speaking as a shareholder of this new, for-profit corporation, I would not authorize the publishing of any information obtained by the RonPaul Campaign to any third-party without the explicit knowledge and permission of its contributor, period.


joe

LittleLightShining
04-29-2008, 08:52 AM
To be honest, I don't think this "revolution" is going to happen if you are ok with allowing the average moron to continue being an average, non-literate moron. A peaceful revolution of ideas, as I see it, cannot succeed by pandering to Bernie Potbelly whose hands are too messy from Cheese Puffs to flip through a book that could save him, his family, and his country. I just heard a statistic today that 53% of Americans haven't read a book in the last year. If the movement is going to continue we are going to need to meet average Joes where they are and wake them up enough to become literate again. Printing books for the thinkers to read is a wonderful thing, but we are in the minority now and must be prepared to use whatever means necessary to remind people what liberty and freedom mean. Selling books to people who don't read isn't going to work.

Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice
04-29-2008, 12:19 PM
I just heard a statistic today that 53% of Americans haven't read a book in the last year. If the movement is going to continue we are going to need to meet average Joes where they are and wake them up enough to become literate again. Printing books for the thinkers to read is a wonderful thing, but we are in the minority now and must be prepared to use whatever means necessary to remind people what liberty and freedom mean. Selling books to people who don't read isn't going to work.

I'd like to see the age breakdown of that statistic.

The people who truly don't read are hopeless anyway.

The younger generation is already mostly aware of Ron Paul and they are probably a large # of those 53%.

It's the 40-60 year olds that still read but get their news from 3 letter networks and are in positions of power that never heard of Ron Paul that this book may enlighten. Send it to your parents and grandparents!!

A few converts from established middle-aged people with vast tangible social networks is just as helpful to the cause as hundreds of 20 and 30 year old techies who don't really have much social influence or as much credibility as their elders

sophocles07
04-29-2008, 05:06 PM
I just heard a statistic today that 53% of Americans haven't read a book in the last year. If the movement is going to continue we are going to need to meet average Joes where they are and wake them up enough to become literate again. Printing books for the thinkers to read is a wonderful thing, but we are in the minority now and must be prepared to use whatever means necessary to remind people what liberty and freedom mean. Selling books to people who don't read isn't going to work.
I just hate having to play down to people. I still don’t think founding some sort of alternative publishing is that bad of an idea, wherever the money comes from. My feeling to some degree is that as long as one has to coerce people into liberty--what THEY'LL get out of it, instead of a bigger picture of social and economic justice--through signs, slogans, and all of that, the thing you are aiming for by the way gets somewhat lacerated.

Cimbri
04-29-2008, 05:18 PM
A "PEOPLES LEGAL CLEARING HOUSE"

Ron Paul's idea of using his campaign funds to create a publishing company could turn out to be a great equalizer in disseminating political power. If we utilize commerce in a unique way to further our role in participatory democracy.

It would be in the interest of liberty in this country if we could make this publishing venture historic. I was thinking for quite some time about having Ron Paul publish his proposed House Resolutions in order to test the market support for these laws. And then use the proceeds from each respective published resolution to fund the needed political groundwork to make these resolutions a reality.

If you like this concept Contact Ron Paul and ask if this publishing venture can be used for a historic "Peoples Legal Clearing House" giving the right to propose and support law back to We the People.


Are we going to continue our indentured servitude to the corporate sposored laws?

Instead we could compile a legal library of Freedom and Liberty centered laws on our book shelves at the same time funding and popularizing these laws instead of just letting them fall by the wayside. This could be a tribute to taking action not just complaining and perseverating about the current legal tyrany we are bogged down in

constituent
04-29-2008, 05:49 PM
A "PEOPLES LEGAL CLEARING HOUSE"

Ron Paul's idea of using his campaign funds to create a publishing company could turn out to be a great equalizer in disseminating political power. If we utilize commerce in a unique way to further our role in participatory democracy.

It would be in the interest of liberty in this country if we could make this publishing venture historic. I was thinking for quite some time about having Ron Paul publish his proposed House Resolutions in order to test the market support for these laws. And then use the proceeds from each respective published resolution to fund the needed political groundwork to make these resolutions a reality.

If you like this concept Contact Ron Paul and ask if this publishing venture can be used for a historic "Peoples Legal Clearing House" giving the right to propose and support law back to We the People.


Are we going to continue our indentured servitude to the corporate sposored laws?

Instead we could compile a legal library of Freedom and Liberty centered laws on our book shelves at the same time funding and popularizing these laws instead of just letting them fall by the wayside. This could be a tribute to taking action not just complaining and perseverating about the current legal tyrany we are bogged down in

ZOMG!!!!!!!!1 Mike Gravel has infiltrated our forums!!!!!!


welcome senator.

LibertiORDeth
04-29-2008, 05:52 PM
for profit does not mean "for making people rich." it's a legalize thing more than a money making thing.

the profit will be speant on more books. A non-profit wouldn't be able to endorse a candidate, for instance.

don't act like Ron Paul is out to make a buck. i think he could have done that already with his job and knowledge. he didn't need us. he could have played the game. he didn't, he's 72. i'm down. i'll donate money to his book company! lol


books, newspapers, magaizines... sky's the limit

and yes, books still make money. people still read books. a lot of us hear are net junkies, but the rest of the world reads books. books make the intellectual world go round.

Agreed, but like previously said it should be a corporation with shares, and the money should be used for the RP candidates.

joemiller
04-30-2008, 09:20 AM
In terms of getting the word out, a non-profit can do that, and at a lower cost, even at no cost. The idea of creating a "for-profit" organization to get the word out will have as its main goal, the creation of profit, not political enlightenment, irrespective of the founder's original intent. The question is, are we now going to sanction the use of converting political campaign contributions into a self-enrichment ponzi scheme? Not me -- for the record.
joe

robert4rp08
04-30-2008, 04:07 PM
OK, Rant begins

If he has millions of dollars left, why isn't he spending it on supporting the grassroots effort in NC (and the other remaining states)??????? We have one week and 2 days......Where are the ads, the newpaper articles?? If we could get the vote % up to where it was in PA, NC could be really big.......but no, we get one day of his presence in NC, no Rand, no nothing???? No phone banks, no direct mailers, nothing.

No wonder most people in the state don't even know he's still on the ticket. I don't mean to be overly negative, but I think Tarzan is right, we need to spend some of that money on the campaign, NOW....I know of people in this state who have ordered signs and lit over three months ago, and haven't even received an explanation why their stuff hasn't even been shipped.

We are feeling really neglected down here and a lot of us spent most of our spare time in SC trying to get out the vote. So many of our group are discouraged by the lack of attention by the campaign, and they have a right to feel that way. Unfortunately, it has led us to smaller numbers of VERY dedicated freedom lovers. If what's been happening to our supporters in the other state and district conventions can be used in some way to boost the interest of our "fallen" supporters, and to peak the interest of the "on the fence" voters, maybe we could get more people to vote for RP.....Just wishful thinking, I know, but come on?!?!?

Because millions were spent in the early states for 5-10%. Practically nothing was spent in PA and he got 16%.

Grassroots > Campaign

newyearsrevolution08
04-30-2008, 04:13 PM
it was our money, use it Ron we give you permission.

Hell if they try and play that route, we can money bomb the setup for that as well if need be.

If you have read or listened to the manifesto it IS THE BEST MARKETING TOOL to say the least.

Buy them for EVERYONE you know

christmas birthdays or whatever. People who at least READ or LISTEN to Ron's thoughts without the media messing with the message itself will soon lean to a large constitutional WAKE UP CALL for Americans.

joemiller
05-01-2008, 11:59 AM
it was our money, use it Ron we give you permission.

Hell if they try and play that route, we can money bomb the setup for that as well if need be.

If you have read or listened to the manifesto it IS THE BEST MARKETING TOOL to say the least.

Buy them for EVERYONE you know

christmas birthdays or whatever. People who at least READ or LISTEN to Ron's thoughts without the media messing with the message itself will soon lean to a large constitutional WAKE UP CALL for Americans.

For one thing, access to a good interactive precinct/Congressional District map for every county would help Ron Paul Executive Committee members win their local seats.

How about a listing of every county GOP election rules for their Executive Committmee members.

In addition, a willingness to put fellow Paulistas in each county, in each precinct, or in each Congressional District on notice through an email notice to support their fellow Paulistas at their local GOP election...I mean, the list goes go.

There is a post here asking for guidance on what to do when they do win their seats. How about a GOP Executive Committee website to allow fellow Paulistas to network with each other in each jurisdiction. There are a lot of things that can be done here that would give Ron Paul supporters the leg up on the old guard. Without it, they will be sitting ducks. Good for one thing, walking their precincts for John McCain.

If you want to open up a for-profit publishing company, fine. Incorporate, get a few angles and sell some stock. That's how you go about creating a for-profit business. I am sure there will be a lot of people willing to buy stock in the company. You don't have to do it by absconding with some one's political contributions.

joe