CP and LP news

[Bradley in DC]

http://www.politics1.com/index.htm

CONSTITUTION PARTY: The Constitution Party Presidential Nominating Convention is taking place in Pennsylvania this weekend. The CP is a vocal Religious Right entity. The nominating speeches are set for Friday, and the delegates will vote on Saturday. The two leading candidates for the Presidential nomination appear to be former Ambassador Alan Keyes and pastor/radio talk show host Chuck Baldwin. Keyes is a former three-time GOP Presidential candidate and three-time GOP nominee for US Senate. Baldwin was the party's 2004 VP nominee. The party's ticket in 2004 achieved ballot status in 36 states.

LIBERTARIAN PARTY: Research scientist, medical professor and Libertarian activist Mary Ruwart -- a frontrunner for the LP Presidential nomination -- is in hot water over statements she previously wrote in her book Short Answers to the Tough Questions on the issue of child pornography. Ruwart has been a frequent LP candidate for US Senate and other offices in the past, and has been a popular speaker at LP gatherings nationwide for many years. This is what Ruwart wrote In response to the question "How can a libertarian argue against child pornography?":

"Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it's distasteful to us personally. Some children will make poor choices just as some adults do in smoking and drinking to excess. When we outlaw child pornography, the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will."

Two of Ruwart's rival LP candidates -- college professor George Phillies and wealthy sports handicapper Wayne Root -- are now calling on her to quit the race. Don't expect Ruwart to exit, however. The bottom line: Ruwart's stumble probably locks-up the LP nomination for former GOP Congressman Bob Barr at next month's nominating convention.

[Carehn]

i know i will catch a lot of flack for this but...

Children are mostly too ignorant (Much like me and my spelling) To make there own choices. At what point are they old enough to make there own choices and take responsibility for there own actions??? The Jews think 13 the USA thinks 18...


I report, you insult.

[torchbearer]

You can view the LALP straw poll on the front page here:
http://louisianalibertarianparty.org/

Ruwart and Root basically tied amongst our national delegates.

[JS4Pat]

http://www.politics1.com/index.htm

"Children who willingly participate in sexual acts have the right to make that decision as well, even if it's distasteful to us personally. Some children will make poor choices just as some adults do in smoking and drinking to excess. When we outlaw child pornography, the prices paid for child performers rise, increasing the incentives for parents to use children against their will."

Ok - that aint gonna fly.

I would strongly recommend against this nomination. There is no recovering from that position.

[AutoDas]

Seems that child pornography answer is a too politically incorrect even for some users here.

[Kludge]

Children are not only a parasite to their parents, but to everyone else around them. A heartless libertarian has no use of children or the constant protection-by-law they need

[Bradley in DC]

Ok - that aint gonna fly.

I would strongly recommend against this nomination. There is no recovering from that position.

It shows, at best, a warped understanding of contractualism/consent.

[CelestialRender]

This was a stupid Q/A to put in a book, which means that it's probably not best to nominate her...we're pretty easy to paint as insane, we probably shouldn't make it easier for them.

I think most rational people realize there's a slippery slope between allowing a mature child freedom to act, and maintaining some safeguards. I'm not sure where I fall there, but I would hope for judgment enough in a candidate that she would not say this sort of thing in writing.

[nate895]

This is the problem I have with the LP, half are normal and the other half are insane, and I have trouble discerning which are which (and often ones I judge as "normal" wind up crazy).

[OptionsTrader]

I am not even getting into the powder keg that is this issue. I'd rather answer the question, "Do you enjoy beating your wife? Yes or no?"

[shuffleproshaq]

If you're morally opposed to child pornography, don't do a porno when you're a kid then. But don't force your subjective morality on little kids that just want to get it on in front of a camera.

[Kludge]

I have always a big advocate of children's rights. This is a big issue that nobody really talks about much. I believe that kids are a whole lot smarter than we take them for, and that If they want to do pornography then that is their perogative.

o.O ..... o.0 Really...?


At what age are they capable of deciding this?

[shuffleproshaq]

o.O ..... o.0 Really...?


At what age are they capable of deciding this?

Every kid is an individual who is ultimately responsible for themselves. There is always someone smarter and better at decision making than you are. By your logic you should hand over your life and decsion making to them. Will children suffer greatly as a result of them making their own decision? Perhaps, but it will ultimately accelerate their learning curve making them deeper, better people.

[AutoDas]

If a child hits puberty and can make babies then they should be considered an adult. So I think "child pornography" should still be illegal to make.

[Kludge]

Don't you remember being a kid? I was recently a kid so at least I can say for myself that I was always capable.



When is someone a kid? When can someone make decisions for themselves with legal responsibility? For reasons of law, a line needs to be drawn and the better-safe-then-sorry approach of 16 (18) seems like an acceptable compromise.

[PennCustom4RP]

Age of consent and adulthood are all arbitrary, set by the government, and wrong in my opinion. A 'child' can join the military at 17, and potentially die in armed conflict, but cannot legally make a porno film.:confused: because they are under age? Same person cannot have a beer until 21(most states)?:rolleyes:
I am all for protecting children, those who have not reached puberty, but with the onset of this, they are as adult as those at 18 years old. The Jews have this correct. My grandmother was married with children at 15, this was common in the not so distant past. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed, has some merit apparently. No one in this day and age can say that the youth don't know what the potential consequences of sex are, with all that is in the media.

Autodas, I agree with your last statement.

Kludge, your position is that the government knows whats best for you, and your safety, by setting these laws...I know you didn't really mean that...

[Kludge]

Age of consent and adulthood are all arbitrary, set by the government, and wrong in my opinion. A 'child' can join the military at 17, and potentially die in armed conflict, but cannot legally make a porno film.:confused: because they are under age? Same person cannot have a beer until 21(most states)?:rolleyes:
I am all for protecting children, those who have not reached puberty, but with the onset of this, they are as adult as those at 18 years old. The Jews have this correct. My grandmother was married with children at 15, this was common in the not so distant past. Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed, has some merit apparently. No one in this day and age can say that the youth don't know what the potential consequences of sex are, with all that is in the media.

Autodas, I agree with your last statement.

Kludge, your position is that the government knows whats best for you, and your safety, by setting these laws...I know you didn't really mean that...


I didn't have a pithy saying to go along with an objectivist approach. "Old enough to bleed, old enough to breed" fits the bill nicely though. :D. Many of the laws you mentioned shouldn't be necessary anyways... No need for alcohol prohibition or a standing army so long as we stick to non-interventionism and a non-paying and decentralized militia system.



So.... How do the courts now decide who has reached puberty without invading privacy?

[PennCustom4RP]

So.... How do the courts now decide who has reached puberty without invading privacy?

BREASTS:D

[DealzOnWheelz]

the problem though is because of hormones in our food children are reaching puberty at earlier ages than before just look at some of these 10-12 year olds with dd breasts

The major problem is that the majority of children are very manipulable especially by family or friends of the family which makes it very difficult for them to understand completely what is wrong with it and even if they do know they can have a huge fear of destroying the family, not being believed, or persecuted and can feel like it is there fault.


BY THE WAY THIS SHOULD BE MOVED TO HOT TOPICS

[yongrel]

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/img/facepalm.jpeg

[amy31416]

Oye vey, aye carumba, is this thread seriously discussing the merits of child porn and justifying it via libertarian principles?

Ganja is one thing (you're only hurting yourself,) but kiddie porn?

I wouldn't leave my dog alone with someone who wanted that legalized. Go join NAMBLA if you want to promote such crap.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need such laws, but this ain't a perfect world, obviously.

[nate895]

Oye vey, aye carumba, is this thread seriously discussing the merits of child porn and justifying it via libertarian principles?

Ganja is one thing (you're only hurting yourself,) but kiddie porn?

I wouldn't leave my dog alone with someone who wanted that legalized. Go join NAMBLA if you want to promote such crap.

In a perfect world, we wouldn't need such laws, but this ain't a perfect world, obviously.

+1

[DaveH]

The Constitutional Party National Convention is taking place in Kansas City, Missouri, not Pennsylvania.
The party isn't a religious right wing party.
Following the constitution as our forefathers intended is neither "left or right winged."
The basis for the Constitutional Party is simply getting our government back on the track of letting this great Constitution lead us.
Dr. Paul would fit into their way of thinking and doing things perfectly. Everything he stands for they stand for.
They are also the fastest growing party in America. I'd urge any who haven't investigated them to do so.

[Theocrat]

If anyone is interested, here's a copy (http://constitutionparty.com/documents/ConventionSchedule04-02-08.pdf) of the schedule of events for the 2008 National Presidential Nominating Convention of the Constitution Party (http://www.constitutionparty.com/). This is the latest news from the Constitution Party as of now.

[mdh]

The LP nomination is far from a lock for Barr. Barr still hasn't even formally announced a candidacy.

I'd say Ruwart was always somewhat of a long-shot in a race where people are looking more to candidates like Barr, Gravel, and Root who bring more media attention to the LP. It could still go to a Kubby or a Ruwart, but it seems less likely. Keep in mind that LP national delegates are not normal voters. :)

[Kludge]

The LP nomination is far from a lock for Barr. Barr still hasn't even formally announced a candidacy.

I'd say Ruwart was always somewhat of a long-shot in a race where people are looking more to candidates like Barr, Gravel, and Root who bring more media attention to the LP. It could still go to a Kubby or a Ruwart, but it seems less likely. Keep in mind that LP national delegates are not normal voters. :)

WAR has McCain-like resistance. WAR is seen as more of a moderate then Ruwart anyways. Barr will very likely receive nomination if he decides to run, pending donations received.

I still prefer Kubby, but... meh.

[torchbearer]

WAR has McCain-like resistance. WAR is seen as more of a moderate then Ruwart anyways. Barr will very likely receive nomination if he decides to run, pending donations received.

I still prefer Kubby, but... meh.

Barr won't get the nomination. He still has the stench of a neocon.
Remember, we are talking about delegates that nominated Badnarik over Aaron Russo and Gary Nolan.
The LP would more likely nominated a hard-line libertarian that tanks over someone who may misrepresent some part of the party platform.
The LP slogan is the "Party of Principle". and its more than just a slogan... the delegates are very principled people.

[Kludge]

Barr won't get the nomination. He still has the stench of a neocon.
Remember, we are talking about delegates that nominated Badnarik over Aaron Russo and Gary Nolan.
The LP would more likely nominated a hard-line libertarian that tanks over someone who may misrepresent some part of the party platform.
The LP slogan is the "Party of Principle". and its more than just a slogan... the delegates are very principled people.

*shrug* I think there may be a big push toward a moderate - more compromising - nominee, hence all the buzz over WAR.

But then - I haven't been as involved with the LP as I probably should be.

[torchbearer]

*shrug* I think there may be a big push toward a moderate - more compromising - nominee, hence all the buzz over WAR.

But then - I haven't been as involved with the LP as I probably should be.

Check out the straw poll from our LP state convention:
http://louisianalibertarianparty.org/

With discussion about the results here as not to highjack this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=134272

[Kludge]

Check out the straw poll from our LP state convention:
http://louisianalibertarianparty.org/

With discussion about the results here as not to highjack this thread: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=134272

Interesting... Thanks.

[Fox McCloud]

Between Chuck Baldwin and Alan Keyes, I'd vote for Chuck; he's intelligent, charismatic, writes well, and really seems to understand things (granted, he's not a Libertarian at the State level, but he is one at the Federal level), politically....Alan Keyes? Loose cannon at best; he has some Libertarian leanings, but not enough for me to like him.

[mdh]

Let's be honest here... not all of our delegates are principled people.

I have noticed a lot of buzz around Barr on the Ron Paul circuit, but nothing even close to it on the LP circuit. The only other person who voted in my poll here who confirmed he was a delegate to the LP convention was a Barr fan, but plenty of other LP folks who will be attending Denver are not Barr voters. I'd say Mary Ruwart does in fact have huge popularity. I'd probably be supporting her over Kubby if their dates of entrance into the race were reversed, but I more or less jumped on Kubby's bandwagon long before Ruwart, Gravel, or Barr even entered - and Barr still hasn't.