Do we write-in Ron Paul or bury McCain and vote for his opponent?

[RCA]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

[Stallion]

Don't vote for the lesser of two evils...vote your conscience. Vote for a liberty-minded candidate on either the LP or CP ticket.

[RCA]

I can see voting for another party, but I just don't see the purpose of writing someone in. In fact, what I'm probably going to do is review all the candidates from all parties and choose the one that respects the Constitution the most.

[pinkmandy]

Don't vote for the lesser of two evils...vote your conscience. Vote for a liberty-minded candidate on either the LP or CP ticket.

^^^^^^

If you can't write him then that's the alternative. Voting FOR the dems doesn't show up in the vote results as someone who is fed up with the GOP, it shows up as an Obama/Hillary supporter and no more. They need to SEE the numbers of those who don't back their platform but aren't Democrats.

[amy31416]

Honestly, it's too early for me to determine what I'll do in November, because I have no idea what the atmosphere will be.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Clinton, McCain and Obama all represent the same people. A vote for Obama or Clinton IS a vote for McCain. Of course, a CP or LP vote would be good though.

[ItsTime]

QFT



They need to SEE the numbers of those who don't back their platform but aren't Democrats.


Clinton, McCain and Obama all represent the same people. A vote for Obama or Clinton IS a vote for McCain. Of course, a CP or LP vote would be good though.

[acroso]

I'll write in Paul or maybe Barr if I learn more about him and like him.

However...if my state were actually competitive....then I might be a GOP suicide voter for Obama instead.

[RonPaulVolunteer]

My opinion only...

If Hillary is in the race, write in Ron Paul.
If Obama is in the race, vote Obama.

[Razmear]

In South Carolina, if it comes down to McCain or Obama, I'm voting for Obama.
If it's McCain v Clinton, then I'll vote LP or CP.

eb

[tonyr1988]

My opinion only...

If Hillary is in the race, write in Ron Paul.
If Obama is in the race, vote Obama.

Hillary == Obama for almost everything, except maybe oratory. Care to explain?

[amy31416]

Hillary == Obama for almost everything, except maybe oratory. Care to explain?

I'm curious too. If I were to consider voting Dem, it would be an anti-McCain vote and looking at the two Dems, I think Clinton could at least have the experience to give us a reasonable "holding pattern" (economically and hopefully with the war) while we get more people into Congress and seek out new RP candidates.

I know people hate her, but she brings Bill's experience to the White House as well and while I'm no fan of Bill, we weren't nearly as bad off with him around. He's relatively moderate on most issues, as is Hillary. I figure that we can somehow block her plans for socializing medicine.

(And yes, I'm well aware that Bill isn't running for office.)

If it's Obama vs. McCain. Holy crap. I don't know. McCain kills millions of people with wars, Obama destroys the economy and tries to continue the war, all the while thinking "I want my mommy! What have I gotten myself into?"

[acptulsa]

I'm curious too. If I were to consider voting Dem, it would be an anti-McCain vote and looking at the two Dems, I think Clinton could at least have the experience to give us a reasonable "holding pattern" (economically and hopefully with the war) while we get more people into Congress and seek out new RP candidates.

I know people hate her, but she brings Bill's experience to the White House as well and while I'm no fan of Bill, we weren't nearly as bad off with him around. He's relatively moderate on most issues, as is Hillary. I figure that we can somehow block her plans for socializing medicine.

(And yes, I'm well aware that Bill isn't running for office.)

If it's Obama vs. McCain. Holy crap. I don't know. McCain kills millions of people with wars, Obama destroys the economy and tries to continue the war, all the while thinking "I want my mommy! What have I gotten myself into?"

You've got something of a point there. And if the CIA gets an attitude toward him like they got toward JFK and shoot him, imagine the riots! But on the other hand, I can't help but feel he's somewhat less in their pockets than Clinton.

Besides, the thought of the history books recording Bush Clinton Bush Clinton just makes me think the oligarchy has taken over.

I'm pretty much believing that === too.

In any case, I'm voting my conscience. No lesser of evils. Someone needs to build up the "other" percentage toward critical mass. Maybe if we exceed 20% a bunch will join us next round...

[mdh]

My opinion only...

If Hillary is in the race, write in Ron Paul.
If Obama is in the race, vote Obama.

In South Carolina, if it comes down to McCain or Obama, I'm voting for Obama.
If it's McCain v Clinton, then I'll vote LP or CP.

eb

Why would you ever vote Obama over the LP or CP candidate? That doesn't make any sense at all. It's like you're "just flirting" with being a neocon or something.
Seriously, Obama is one of them despite how the MSM tries to sell him to people who are eager to listen. Stop looking at the hype and look at the substance, the policies, the agenda, the issues.


Hillary == Obama for almost everything, except maybe oratory. Care to explain?

Hillary == Obama == McCain.
There're no substantive differences.

[JK/SEA]

Are you all kiddin'? this is a joke thread right?

Comes down to this for me. I write in Ron Paul no matter what.

[mdh]

But on the other hand, I can't help but feel he's somewhat less in their pockets than Clinton.

Of course you can't! It's by design. The image has been carefully crafted and engineered so that people will feel just that way.

[Rangeley]

There is absolutely no way I would ever vote for Obama, and I honestly do not see why people seem to think he is any better then McCain or Clinton. Because he spoke out against the Patriot Act? Yea, right before he voted to re-authorize it. Because he spoke out against the Iraq War? Yea, right before saying he would invade Pakistan and not even leave Iraq anyways.

Because he wraps up his message in that of "hope?" No doubt he does, but what is his message? Its that we need to turn to the government to solve our problems and cannot solve them ourselves. That is not a message of hope, despite its shiny wrappings.

I think Obama is the worst possible candidate of the three, because he is charismatic and draws people into what he is saying - even people here, it seems. He would do the most to set back any progress, because he, unlike the other two, would be able to get away with it.

[amy31416]

In any case, I'm voting my conscience. No lesser of evils. Someone needs to build up the "other" percentage toward critical mass. Maybe if we exceed 20% a bunch will join us next round...

The conundrum I find myself in is that voting for Ron Paul as a write-in is a vote that keeps my conscience from rearing-up and giving me nightmares. But voting against McCain and the wars is equally as important to my poor, confused conscience.

And my write-in only serves a philosophical good, whereas a vote for the opposition, while repugnant, may actually have some effect in keeping a warmongering madman out of the White House.

See the dilemma? If the economy collapses, that's one thing. But if McCain gets in and sends more people to die, I feel that I'll have blood on my hands if I didn't do everything I could to keep him out.

[acptulsa]

Of course you can't! It's by design. The image has been carefully crafted and engineered so that people will feel just that way.

That isn't it. I saw through Reagan's teflon at a young age, and Bill Clinton's charisma didn't fool me for a minute. I guess if he gets shot we'll know he was going maverick, and if he doesn't it was just my imagination.

In any case, I do not trust him. Even if he's not in it for the machine, he's not in it for me, either...

I'm voting my conscience. The only way we're going to break this "lesser of evils" spell is to up the numbers to that magical critical mass point where people will say, hey, I could've helped. I threw my vote away when I could have helped!

[mdh]

The conundrum I find myself in is that voting for Ron Paul as a write-in is a vote that keeps my conscience from rearing-up and giving me nightmares. But voting against McCain and the wars is equally as important to my poor, confused conscience.

And my write-in only serves a philosophical good, whereas a vote for the opposition, while repugnant, may actually have some effect in keeping a warmongering madman out of the White House.

See the dilemma? If the economy collapses, that's one thing. But if McCain gets in and sends more people to die, I feel that I'll have blood on my hands if I didn't do everything I could to keep him out.

I you believe that Hillary or Barack oppose the current path of unending war, think again - then listen to all of the times they've said outright that they won't be pulling troops out, and that they have their sights set on Iran and Pakistan respectively for the next target. Also pay attention to the Democratic debate last summer where Hillary talks about her willingness to explore a nuclear strike option against Iran.

Any of those three winning will put blood on the hands of any who voted for them.

[Bradley in DC]

We have time. Right now let's focus on the remaining contests for Dr. Paul and the RP Republicans with primary contests. The general election is eons away in political terms.

[qh4dotcom]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

Your vote plus all the votes of the members of this forum is not going to decide the election....so don't vote for McCain's opponent...and do what is right and give your vote to the good doctor.

[luaPnoR]

Who says write-ins are not counted? I'm pretty sure they are counted but usually not until a few days afterwards. They count the *number* of write-in votes right away, but not who they're for. If the winner has won by more than the number of write-in votes, then they might not bother seeing who got the write-ins.

I'm writing down Ron Paul's name. My conscience wont allow me to vote for anyone else.

[amy31416]

I you believe that Hillary or Barack oppose the current path of unending war, think again - then listen to all of the times they've said outright that they won't be pulling troops out, and that they have their sights set on Iran and Pakistan respectively for the next target. Also pay attention to the Democratic debate last summer where Hillary talks about her willingness to explore a nuclear strike option against Iran.

Any of those three winning will put blood on the hands of any who voted for them.

I know. I'm aware of the inconsistencies of Barack and Hillary--but they don't, at least, seem to relish the notion like McCain does.

[qh4dotcom]

See the dilemma? If the economy collapses, that's one thing. But if McCain gets in and sends more people to die, I feel that I'll have blood on my hands if I didn't do everything I could to keep him out.

Time for some straight blunt talk...

If all Americans refused to be drafted, if all Americans refused to enroll in the military from now on, if all Americans enrolled in the military refused to be deployed to Iraq....or those who are in Iraq refused to combat and demanded to be brought back home or somehow escaped.....there would be no Iraq war right now.

So the troops can be blamed for the big mess there now and the waste of billions of taxpayer dollars by cooperating with the government...since the troops don't care about risking their own lives and the big mess they caused in Iraq, the last thing I am going to feel is that I'll have blood on my hands if they are so enthusiastic about obeying McCain's orders. The only people I will feel sorry about are the family members that tried to talk their relatives/troops out of taking the suicide trip to Iraq.

[mdh]

Who says write-ins are not counted? I'm pretty sure they are counted but usually not until a few days afterwards. They count the *number* of write-in votes right away, but not who they're for. If the winner has won by more than the number of write-in votes, then they might not bother seeing who got the write-ins.

It varies by state. In WV, for example, you can sign up as a write-in only candidate if you can't collect enough signatures to get on the ballot for the office you're running for, and those will be counted, but if you don't register as a candidate for the given office then write-in votes for you won't be counted.

[Kade]

Clinton, McCain and Obama all represent the same people. A vote for Obama or Clinton IS a vote for McCain. Of course, a CP or LP vote would be good though.

Wrong.

Right now the Republicans are threatening to put more "Conservatives" on the bench.

Allowing McCain in there is asking to be enslaved. It is asking for a police state. A democrat can stem the bleeding from at least one hole.

[acptulsa]

Time for some straight blunt talk...

I'm not inclined to blame the troops at all, and I don't agree with those who do. Here we have a bunch of kids looking for opportunity in a land that used to be full of it. They're young and they were taught to have faith in their leaders. Once they're in and see the truth of their situation, they're over a barrel--and they know better than anyone how much their fellow soldiers are depending on them to keep on keeping on whether or not their heart's still in it.

Revolution, meanwhile, is not made of giving up and voting for the lesser of evils again. No percentage in it. Call it revolutionary or call it evolutionary, we must work toward that tipping point where our numbers are sufficient to make people say, if I had just followed my conscience we'd be on the path to recovery. Next time I do it right...

[Mckarnin]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

If Ron Paul is the only good candidate according to your conscience then we right him in. Honestly I plan to write him in (if he doesn't get the nomination) because I would like the "status quo" to see just how many votes they missed out on...

K

[acptulsa]

If Ron Paul is the only good candidate according to your conscience then we right him in. Honestly I plan to write him in (if he doesn't get the nomination) because I would like the "status quo" to see just how many votes they missed out on...

K

There it is, right there. Let the status quo see it and let those who are sick of the status quo see how to make a difference!

[freelance]

I'm going to vote in a manner that registers my vote as "none of the above!" I don't know yet what that will be, but if write-in votes don't count in my state, I will vote third party.

[TruthAtLast]

I guess there are different directions to take.


Some people want to vote anti-McCain to make sure he doesn't win. There is no guarantee he wont win, and if he doesn't win there is also no guarantee that is was because of us.
Some want to vote for anyone that will do the least damage to the country to give us another shot in 2 and 4 years while we work on expanding the Liberty Movement.
Some people think we should vote 3rd party or write in Ron Paul to make a statement similar to voting "no contest"


I can see the merits of each of these but it may have to do with each person's view of the big picture. If people are fed up with the 2 party system having so much control and want to begin sowing the seeds of third party legitimacy, then voting third party may help. But even then, your expectations would need to be realistic. You would have to be patient and it may take several election cycles.

I can also see that voting for McCain's opponent may not send the desired message to the GOP to change their ways. There is nothing to say on the ballot "anti-McCain but voting Democrat".

If the END goal is really to take over (or take BACK) the Republican party as Ron Paul's strategy seems to be, then ideally we would find a way for McCain not to win, and make sure that the GOP knew it was the true Conservatives that were the reason why. I'm not sure how to best accomplish that objective. We will probably have a better feel after the National Convention.

I think it is pretty safe to say that a third party candidate will likely NOT win the General election. I'm not saying it is impossible but the deck is stacked so heavily against them (ballot access, fund raising, debates, coverage, etc.) that it is very difficult. But maybe winning isn't really the only way to "win".

This is just my personal opinion but I'm inclined to think that if the Democrats won, though they would try to push socialist issues, we may be able to fight them individually.

I am MUCH more afraid of what an extended Bush agenda could do to this Movement if McCain continued pushing the Police state. With the surveillance being put into place and Net Neutrality being challenged and possibly labeling many Grassroots organizations as Terrorist organizations, I'd have to think that this Movement may be cut off at the knees. Sites like this could be shut down which would make our efforts even harder.

With that said, I'd STILL rather not vote Democrat. I'd hope they could win on their own so that I could vote third party and also make a statement there. Not under any scenario would I vote for McCain. I probably wont decide until after things play out at the convention and we really know which third party candidates will be running.

[Kade]

I guess there are different directions to take.


Some people want to vote anti-McCain to make sure he doesn't win. There is no guarantee he wont win, and if he doesn't win there is also no guarantee that is was because of us.
Some want to vote for anyone that will do the least damage to the country to give us another shot in 2 and 4 years while we work on expanding the Liberty Movement.
Some people think we should vote 3rd party or write in Ron Paul to make a statement similar to voting "no contest"


I can see the merits of each of these but it may have to do with each person's view of the big picture. If people are fed up with the 2 party system having so much control and want to begin sowing the seeds of third party legitimacy, then voting third party may help. But even then, your expectations would need to be realistic. You would have to be patient and it may take several election cycles.

I can also see that voting for McCain's opponent may not send the desired message to the GOP to change their ways. There is nothing to say on the ballot "anti-McCain but voting Democrat".

If the END goal is really to take over (or take BACK) the Republican party as Ron Paul's strategy seems to be, then ideally we would find a way for McCain not to win, and make sure that the GOP knew it was the true Conservatives that were the reason why. I'm not sure how to best accomplish that objective. We will probably have a better feel after the National Convention.

I think it is pretty safe to say that a third party candidate will likely NOT win the General election. I'm not saying it is impossible but the deck is stacked so heavily against them (ballot access, fund raising, debates, coverage, etc.) that it is very difficult. But maybe winning isn't really the only way to "win".

This is just my personal opinion but I'm inclined to think that if the Democrats won, though they would try to push socialist issues, we may be able to fight them individually.

I am MUCH more afraid of what an extended Bush agenda could do to this Movement if McCain continued pushing the Police state. With the surveillance being put into place and Net Neutrality being challenged and possibly labeling many Grassroots organizations as Terrorist organizations, I'd have to think that this Movement may be cut off at the knees. Sites like this could be shut down which would make our efforts even harder.

With that said, I'd STILL rather not vote Democrat. I'd hope they could win on their own so that I could vote third party and also make a statement there. Not under any scenario would I vote for McCain. I probably wont decide until after things play out at the convention and we really know which third party candidates will be running.

This is about as awesome analysis as one could get.

My big picture is the fear of the police state. I've made my case before... and I'm sticking to it.

[acptulsa]

I'm not sure it's really an issue. I'm not sure the G.O.P. can win without the Reagan Coalition or fearmongering. They're pissing away the former, and another attack could well give us traction with the argument that they said they'd keep us safe and they didn't. How much time should we give them to be incompetent? What else do they have?

I don't think McCain can win without us. Really. They're running polls that say otherwise, but I don't believe them.

P.S. Unless they create a "Diebold Coalition". I think that should be a major focus of this movement...

[georgiaboy]

If Ron Paul is the only good candidate according to your conscience then we right him in. Honestly I plan to write him in (if he doesn't get the nomination) because I would like the "status quo" to see just how many votes they missed out on...

K

You hit the nail on the head, K. A vote for anyone other than Ron Paul this year can be spun away from the message we need to send.

We must show up, we must vote, we stand on principle and conscience, and petition, vote and/or write in, Ron Paul.

[Join The Paul Side]

My opinion only...

If Hillary is in the race, write in Ron Paul.
If Obama is in the race, vote Obama.

That's the way I see it. If I can write in Ron Paul, I will. But my precinct uses machines. If there is no write in option for me, I will vote Obama if he wins the Dem's nomination. I just feel that he will be the candidate that will most likely acknowledge the will of the people. :cool:

If it's McCain vs Hillary, I'll vote for any random name on the ballot other than theirs. Even if it's Allen Keyes. :cool:

[Akus]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

how about a third choice

a massive organized exodus from the GOP and vote for the Libertarian. If it's massive enough, I bet the Libertarians may even win. But again, every single Ron Paul supporter indifferent of age, religion, view on abortion, God, prostitution, war in Iraq or other "sensitive" issues has to do this.

[Razmear]

Why would you ever vote Obama over the LP or CP candidate? That doesn't make any sense at all. It's like you're "just flirting" with being a neocon or something.


A vote for Obama is a vote for the lesser of 2 evils. Because I'm in SC and it will likely be a close contest between Obama and McCain, I will vote for the less evil choice.
If I were in a solid R or D state, then I'd be more likely to just vote for a candidate with no chance to make a statement, but if I can help ensure that McCain does not get into office, I will do so.

And yes, I'm still hoping for a miracle at the convention and having RP on the Republican ticket, but given the choices presented by the OP, I stick by my answer.

eb

[acptulsa]

how about a third choice

a massive organized exodus from the GOP and vote for the Libertarian. If it's massive enough, I bet the Libertarians may even win. But again, every single Ron Paul supporter indifferent of age, religion, view on abortion, God, prostitution, war in Iraq or other "sensitive" issues has to do this.

Yeah, we're setting ourselves up to split our vote just the way the G.O.P. conservatives did this primary season, clearing the way for McCain. With the CP, the LP and a write in campaign all going, we stand a good chance of pissing away a chance to break twenty percent by going six percent here, seven percent there, and winding up impressing no one.

We've got to unify and coalesce around someone. Seems logical to me to make it Dr. Paul, but neither the CP nor the LP seems interested in refraining from fielding competing candidates like they were considering earlier in the year.

We split our vote we're killing all the gains the Revolution has made--simple as that. Join or die. No third option.

P.S. Of course, if a bunch of us give up and do the "lesser of evils" business as usual, that would do it also...

[Akus]

I guess there are different directions to take.


Some people want to vote anti-McCain to make sure he doesn't win. There is no guarantee he wont win, and if he doesn't win there is also no guarantee that is was because of us.
Some want to vote for anyone that will do the least damage to the country to give us another shot in 2 and 4 years while we work on expanding the Liberty Movement.
Some people think we should vote 3rd party or write in Ron Paul to make a statement similar to voting "no contest"


I can see the merits of each of these but it may have to do with each person's view of the big picture. If people are fed up with the 2 party system having so much control and want to begin sowing the seeds of third party legitimacy, then voting third party may help. But even then, your expectations would need to be realistic. You would have to be patient and it may take several election cycles.

I can also see that voting for McCain's opponent may not send the desired message to the GOP to change their ways. There is nothing to say on the ballot "anti-McCain but voting Democrat".

If the END goal is really to take over (or take BACK) the Republican party as Ron Paul's strategy seems to be, then ideally we would find a way for McCain not to win, and make sure that the GOP knew it was the true Conservatives that were the reason why. I'm not sure how to best accomplish that objective. We will probably have a better feel after the National Convention.

Well here lies the problem. Some people, I am one of them are not so much interested in reviving the GOP. I personally just want my full paycheck and the police to be looking for murderers and rapists, not people who use chemical agents to destroy their bodies in the privacy of their own homes. So far, becoming GOP delegates and becoming one with GOP is a vehicle to do this, so I am playing along.

Thus, if the Convention takes place and Ron Paul is still not a nominee, we need to leave the party AND vote Libertarian (Consitution party will do, too, assuming they get all 50 state ballot). I believe that this is doable, but if and only if we do this on a massive organized scale.

I don't know about you, but where I am, the GOP is in a sad, ruinous condition. You could practically tell that if a person is not old enough to remember where they were when Reagan got shot, chances are they're newcomers and Ron Paul supporters. The rest are in their thousands agewise and are few in and of themselves as a body of a local Republican party.

If we do this right, the party will be hurt so bad that they may even be at risk of dicontinuing existance.

[Akus]

Yeah, we're setting ourselves up to split our vote just the way the G.O.P. conservatives did this primary season, clearing the way for McCain. With the CP, the LP and a write in campaign all going, we stand a good chance of pissing away a chance to break twenty percent by going six percent here, seven percent there, and winding up impressing no one.

We've got to unify and coalesce around someone. Seems logical to me to make it Dr. Paul, but neither the CP nor the LP seems interested in refraining from fielding competing candidates like they were considering earlier in the year.

We split our vote we're killing all the gains the Revolution has made--simple as that. Join or die. No third option.

Ummm, guy.
I think that's pretty much what I just said.;)

[acptulsa]

Ummm, guy.
I think that's pretty much what I just said.;)

Just consider my version emphasis added.

[The Only Woj]

no doubt in my mind I'm voting for McCain. there is no way I'm going to give up America to socialism like the rest of you seem willing to do. you either vote for the lesser of two evils or you GIVE the greater of those two evils an advantage.

[Knightskye]

I'm gonna wait till the convention, honestly. After that, if Ron Paul is on the ballot, I'm voting for him. If he's not on the ballot, I think I'll stay principled and vote liberty-minded.

Bastards jumping ship and voting for a Liberal. :rolleyes:

[acroso]

Voting Obama is better than voting McCain, but you only need to do that if your state is competitive. Otherwise go Paul!

[Knightskye]

Voting Obama is better than voting McCain, but you only need to do that if your state is competitive. Otherwise go Paul!

I just don't think it's smart to go with the lesser of two evils. People (think they) did that in 2004, and look what happened.

[mdh]

no doubt in my mind I'm voting for McCain. there is no way I'm going to give up America to socialism like the rest of you seem willing to do. you either vote for the lesser of two evils or you GIVE the greater of those two evils an advantage.

Explain how McCain is not a socialist.

[DFF]

A Democrat protest vote against McCain is no different than voting for McCain himself, since they (McCain;Hillary;Obama) are all alike.

If you support Ron Paul, write him in. If you don't, vote for the above socialist of your choice.

[runningdiz]

Can we all wait until after all of the conventions to decide? Its just the presidency who care.. Don't loose focus on all of the Ron Paul candidates running for office that have a chance. All of those offices are more important to our movement currently. Ron needs a friend in congress!!!!

[crazyfingers]

The way I see it, if you support a Constitutionally limited federal government, then the only choice is to vote for the Libertarian nominee. Voting Democratic sends a message to the GOP, all right -- the wrong message.

[TruthAtLast]

A Democrat protest vote against McCain is no different than voting for McCain himself, since they (McCain;Hillary;Obama) are all alike.

If you support Ron Paul, write him in. If you don't, vote for the above socialist of your choice.


I respectfully disagree that all of them are the same. I don't think they are all alike. I do think they are all corrupt and none of them are good choices. None of them will fix the economy. None will curb spending. But there are definite possibilities where the country could be MUCH worse if one of these candidates wins versus another.

We live in a socialist/fascist country ALREADY. What do you think welfare, unemployment, and social security is? So those people worrying about handing the country over to the socialists... ummm too late.

We have the illusion of democracy and there is still a small glimmer of light from the little freedom we have left. But if we become a full-fledged police state where anyone speaking out against the status quo is labeled a terrorist and detained indefinitely, then this entire Movement is GONE.... DONE.... FINISHED. I have hope for this country, but don't think that this CAN'T happen. Believe me.. it can. If there was another attack (whether real or staged) any last shred of Freedom we have left would be gone.

I'd MUCH rather take my chances with the socialists and fight them tooth and nail as they try to push their agenda. Meanwhile, it buys us time which is probably the most valuable commodity for the Movement. We know that with time, we are waking people up. We know that with time, this Revolution will grow. But if all of the doors of Freedom are closed before we have a chance to take this country back, then all peaceful options will be extinguished.

So YES, there IS a worse of 3 evils here.

Like I said in my previous post. I really don't want to vote Democrat and I don't plan on it because I think (and hope) the Democrats can beat McCain on their own. If that happens, I'll probably vote 3rd party or of course Ron Paul if he ever made it to the ballot.

[TruthAtLast]

Can we all wait until after all of the conventions to decide? Its just the presidency who care.. Don't loose focus on all of the Ron Paul candidates running for office that have a chance. All of those offices are more important to our movement currently. Ron needs a friend in congress!!!!

QFT

[yaz]

Bob Barr for general election. Ron Paul for primaries (unless he gets nominated).

[GunnyFreedom]

This is much like Socrates' "Choose your method of execution"

Obama = Globalist. NAU
Clinton = Communist. Total bankruptcy and collectivist marketplace.
McCain = Fascist. Several more invasions and a "Naziistic" police state.

To my eyes, the 'least harmful' of the three is Hillary. However, I'll never vote for an 'evil' just because it's 'lesser.'

I will be writing in Ron Paul come November, period. end of story.

[SeanEdwards]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

I'm voting for whoever has the best chance to beat McCain, which undoubtedly will be the democrat nominee. I'm doing that because McCain is a psychopath, and because the GOP is a rancid stain that should be wiped out. They had their chance at redemption by nominating Paul and they rejected it. Now the GOP needs to die.

[GunnyFreedom]

I'm voting for whoever has the best chance to beat McCain, which undoubtedly will be the democrat nominee. I'm doing that because McCain is a psychopath, and because the GOP is a rancid stain that should be wiped out. They had their chance at redemption by nominating Paul and they rejected it. Now the GOP needs to die.

Funny thing though - if you really wanted to kill off the GOP, then the best way to do that is for McCain to actually win....

Now, see my post just above for proof that I would rather Hillary win than McCain, because I HATE McCain with every ounce of my vitriol. But if your strategy really is to 'kill off the GOP' then nothing would do that more effectively, quickly, and permanenty than a McCain win. Just sayin.

[Join The Paul Side]

Anybody think Nader is a good option for us?

[SeanEdwards]

Funny thing though - if you really wanted to kill off the GOP, then the best way to do that is for McCain to actually win....

Now, see my post just above for proof that I would rather Hillary win than McCain, because I HATE McCain with every ounce of my vitriol. But if your strategy really is to 'kill off the GOP' then nothing would do that more effectively, quickly, and permanenty than a McCain win. Just sayin.

I doubt there'd be much of a country left after McCain got through with it. That nut wants to climb up Satan's bunghole in his search for bin Laden, and you just know he wants to drag America along on the trip.

I think his actual quote was "I'd follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell." Totally not the language I want to hear from a guy with his hand on a nuclear trigger.

[TruthAtLast]

I doubt there'd be much of a country left after McCain got through with it. That nut wants to climb up Satan's bunghole in his search for bin Laden, and you just know he wants to drag America along on the trip.

I think his actual quote was "I'd follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell." Totally not the language I want to hear from a guy with his hand on a nuclear trigger.

+1

[acptulsa]

Yeah, McCain is bad. Very very very bad. The question is, are there enough racist and sexist voters out there to go against the Dubya 20% approval rating and vote for the psycho anyway, or are these polls we're seeing just proof that the racist and sexist are the most likely to have land lines and sit through opinion polls? I think the latter.

I really don't think the Democrats need our help this November. I think the future needs our help more.

[ItsTime]

The point that may be missing is that if the Ron Paul Republicans do not vote for McCain McCain will lose to a dem. So how do we show they lost our vote? The only way I see is for voting another 3rd party or writing in Ron Paul.

[phree]

I just skimmed this thread and I want to comment about voting for Obama. If you think voting for Obama will help the country in any way then someone has slipped you some of the infamous Koolaid.

I'll write in Paul's name, or if that isn't relevant in some way I'll just do what I normally do on election days, stay home. I've been protesting the system by not voting for all but 2 elections since 1976. You can't win by voting for one of two identical choices.

[acroso]

Vote Paul unless you live in Ohio or Florida...then definitely vote Obama.

[CurtisLow]

Ron Paul all the way baby!

The real thing! No substitutes

[tajitj]

I think we have to wait and see. Depending on who is the LP nominee. Even if it is another party we really dont discuss much. But I think there has to be an effort to vote together in some manner. If Paul gets 200,000 write in. LP gets 500,000 votes, Constitution Party gets 250,000 we will have effectively dropped off the earth. But imagine a quality candidate getting 2 million votes. That is what we need to start out as. People who are very loyal to the county not their own interests who have to be dealt with.

[joemiller]

Of course it's far too early to make a definitive decision on the matter, but if by election time I am convenienced that the liberal democrat is going to win the election, I will write in Ron Paul. If, however, I am not convenienced the liberal democrat (preferably, Obama) is going to win the election, I will vote for the liberal democrat and start working on the 2010 and 2012 elections.

joe

[Eric21ND]

I wouldn't vote for McCain if I didn't have ARMS!!!

[rajibo]

The point that may be missing is that if the Ron Paul Republicans do not vote for McCain McCain will lose to a dem. So how do we show they lost our vote? The only way I see is for voting another 3rd party or writing in Ron Paul.

I agree with this.

If there is one thing this Ron Paul movement has taught me, it is to no longer, ever, vote for the lesser of two evils. I've done that too many times in my short voting career. By voting against McCain by voting for Obama or Clinton you're just supporting the system that we've been fighting hard to change for the past year. Our numbers need to be seen in the general election and lumping them into the Democrats number will prove nothing.

Ron Paul has still not COMPLETELY ruled out an independent run, and even if he doesn't go that route, that's not to say there will not be a candidate he endorses that we can all rally behind.

[speciallyblend]

whatever you do , DO NOT VOTE FOR MCCAIN, and let every republican you know to do the samething;) maybe even run anti-mccain ads in your paper and put under it. Paid for by REPUBLICANS SAVING THE REPUBLICAN PARTY or along those lines. I think we should all try to run anti mccain ads in the next few months this will help for the convention

[speciallyblend]

I agree with this.

If there is one thing this Ron Paul movement has taught me, it is to no longer, ever, vote for the lesser of two evils. I've done that too many times in my short voting career. By voting against McCain by voting for Obama or Clinton you're just supporting the system that we've been fighting hard to change for the past year. Our numbers need to be seen in the general election and lumping them into the Democrats number will prove nothing.

Ron Paul has still not COMPLETELY ruled out an independent run, and even if he doesn't go that route, that's not to say there will not be a candidate he endorses that we can all rally behind.

this is the plan,unless the gop wises up..

[raystone]

National Taxpayers Union tells us that Obama's campaign promises would cost us $300 Billion dollars...McCain's about 7 Billion

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=97


The best possible federal government for us is one that is gridlocked i.e., a Democrat congress and Republican president or vice versa.

If Obama (or Clinton) gets in, and Dems control Congress, we are looking at unprecedented Socialistic legislature pushed through, and fast. The resulting tax increases will be significant and probably never be undone.

Considering, as of now, there is no reason to believe Dems will lose control of Congress, despite McCain being the worst presidential candidate in history, we don't want a Democrat Congress and President.

I want our military back in the U.S. and out of other countries as much as anyone, however, once Obama or Clinton get in the whitehouse, they'll become part of the military industrial complex and will find a reason to follow the same warmongering path as Bush and McCain.

[Arklatex]

I'm writing in Ron Paul.

[TruthAtLast]

I just skimmed this thread and I want to comment about voting for Obama. If you think voting for Obama will help the country in any way then someone has slipped you some of the infamous Koolaid.

I'll write in Paul's name, or if that isn't relevant in some way I'll just do what I normally do on election days, stay home. I've been protesting the system by not voting for all but 2 elections since 1976. You can't win by voting for one of two identical choices.

I don't think anyone is saying Obama will help this country. In fact I don't think anyone is saying ANY of the candidates will help this country. Most people are trying to battle the decision of voting strategically (several ways to do this) or voting my conscience (which may in effect be a useless vote but we can feel good about it). I'm hoping we can do both as the cards play out and we really know where we stand after the Convention.

[TruthAtLast]

National Taxpayers Union tells us that Obama's campaign promises would cost us $300 Billion dollars...McCain's about 7 Billion

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=97


The best possible federal government for us is one that is gridlocked i.e., a Democrat congress and Republican president or vice versa.

If Obama (or Clinton) gets in, and Dems control Congress, we are looking at unprecedented Socialistic legislature pushed through, and fast. The resulting tax increases will be significant and probably never be undone.

Considering, as of now, there is no reason to believe Dems will lose control of Congress, despite McCain being the worst presidential candidate in history, we don't want a Democrat Congress and President.

I want our military back in the U.S. and out of other countries as much as anyone, however, once Obama or Clinton get in the whitehouse, they'll become part of the military industrial complex and will find a reason to follow the same warmongering path as Bush and McCain.


Since when does the war cost tax payers only $7 billion? Is this a two day estimate? :)

The actual Iraq or Iran war (though a major concern) ISN'T the primary concern with McCain being in office. It is the police state. It is continuing the Bush agenda. Patriot Act 2, destroying the FISA court, Homegrown Terrorist Act, Social Security Surveillance Act, Real ID...... the list will go on and on. There will be no Freedom left to even PULL OFF a Movement in the future if McCain takes office. The war is a footnote compared to the REAL damage he could do to this Movement.

[GunnyFreedom]

Since when does the war cost tax payers only $7 billion? Is this a two day estimate? :)

The actual Iraq or Iran war (though a major concern) ISN'T the primary concern with McCain being in office. It is the police state. It is continuing the Bush agenda. Patriot Act 2, destroying the FISA court, Homegrown Terrorist Act, Social Security Surveillance Act, Real ID...... the list will go on and on. There will be no Freedom left to even PULL OFF a Movement in the future if McCain takes office. The war is a footnote compared to the REAL damage he could do to this Movement.

No kidding! and he actually has a history of destroying freedom too. Just look at the bills he has sponsored, like McCain/Feingold etc. Not only does he WANT to destroy liberty, he has a HISTORY of destroying liberty, LONG before 9/11.

[pepperpete1]

Whatever party Ron Paul is running in is the party I will support. There is no other candidate that represents what a president should be other than Ron Paul. I wrote his name in during the last election when he was not even running for president.
If our campaign managers of each state that allows for write-in votes does not ensure that the proper filings are made for Ron Paul in the time frame that is required,then shame on them.
The rank and file GOP will be sending electorates to the electoral college and you can bet your bottom dollar that they will be voting for the "maverick". This will hurt us big time.
The electoral college vote totals supercede the popular vote.

Anyone have an idea on how to overcome the electoral college??

I cannot, and will not vote for any other than Ron Paul. I will not vote strategically, and will fight tooth and nail anyone who tries to subvert our liberties.

[parke]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

Id rather have a Republican president with a Democratic house and senate.

or do we need to be reminded about the last time we gave one party complete control..

[klamath]

For all those voting the lesser of two evils which seems to be the majority here it appears you just want to go back to politics as usual.
Any vote for the big three is given the winner a mandate to institute his radical changes.
Bush was kind of a lame duck with his slim election victory in 2000 but it was only after 911 and his approval ratings hit 80% did he get the worst of his agenda through.
Don't fall for the polls showing a close election and thinking your vote will make a difference in a swing state. I don't believe it is going to be close in reality and your vote will only add to a margen of victory and mandate I don't think you want.
Huge blocks of votes for freedom loving constitutional third party candidates will be noticed, especially by the losing party. They are going to be looking at those votes and trying to figure out how to draw those vote in the next election. It doesn't matter what party. this is how you get real change.

Of the big three that are likely to win this fall we are Fu**** one way of another. Please don't give any one of them a mandate. Your vote will never be seen as vote for freedom but a vote for their agenda. If their agenda is what you want, why the He** did you ever support RP?

[raystone]

Since when does the war cost tax payers only $7 billion? Is this a two day estimate? :)

The actual Iraq or Iran war (though a major concern) ISN'T the primary concern with McCain being in office. It is the police state. It is continuing the Bush agenda. Patriot Act 2, destroying the FISA court, Homegrown Terrorist Act, Social Security Surveillance Act, Real ID...... the list will go on and on. There will be no Freedom left to even PULL OFF a Movement in the future if McCain takes office. The war is a footnote compared to the REAL damage he could do to this Movement.


check the votes, the Dems voted for all of these... Patriot Act, Real ID, etc.

like I mentioned, Clinton or Obama will, in the end, further the military industrial complex, almost as well as McCain will

by the way, here's how Paul stacks up against the Presidential candidates that will continue to spend us into oblivion

http://www.ntu.org/main/page.php?PageID=141

[ProBlue33]

To all these poeple who say they are writing in Ron Paul, how are you going to do that in states that have computer type voting, you have no paper just a screen.:confused:

Seriously can anyone that pulled for Ron Paul vote for McCain?
You know if the selection of the delegate process was honest and trustworthy then people could say oh well it wasn't time. But over and over we get reports how the GOP is screwing Ron Paul supporters when they get to the delegate selection process.

So I say this... THE GOP IS SCREWING US, WE SCREW THEM RIGHT BACK IN NOVEMBER! No matter what don't vote for McCain, and if the state polls show its really close where you live hold your nose and vote for Obama. The GOP can't get away with this they must pay the price and learn not to piss off it's own supporters.

Ron Paul supporters need to get on the news and say I supported Ron Paul, but the GOP rejected me so I reject them, I now support Obama, it needs to be well known.

[TruthAtLast]

Whatever party Ron Paul is running in is the party I will support.

So you would support McCain even though RON PAUL REFUSES to do so? You would support the guy that is against EVERYTHING that Ron Paul stands for? You would rather lose every ounce of Freedom you have left and KILL this Movement forever?

This isn't about parties, or just about ideals. That is small-minded thinking. We have to think further than 2 inches in front of our face.

Whether someone decides to vote for McCain's opponent or a third party or write-in Ron Paul (in states where they are allowed to).... I can see merits for each of these decisions and I wouldn't fault anyone for making any one of them.

But to me, ANYONE who supports and votes for McCain is a TRAITOR and doesn't understand this Movement at ALL! Those people clearly have not been paying attention to a word Ron Paul and other patriots have been saying this whole time. These people are just Ron Paul "fanboys" as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry for being harsh but this type of logic is absolutely insane.

[libertarian4321]

Hillary == Obama for almost everything, except maybe oratory. Care to explain?

The most obvious difference is that Hillary is an open and unashamed warmonger (she has toned it down for political purposes, but never admitted it was a mistake to vote for the war). Obama had the sense to openly oppose the war- to many of us, that's a HUGE difference.

On top of that, Hillary is just a nasty, unlikeable person- I wouldn't trust her to walk my dog. While I don't agree with Obama's politics, he just doesn't strike me as being as nasty as Hillary.

So, if it comes down to McWar vs Obama, I may vote for Obama as a "screw you" to the Republican Party and their incessant warmongering (probably sounds weird for a guy who is a soldier and a Republican, but thats the way I feel). Or maybe I vote Libertarian if I like their candidate (I choose Libertarian over constitution party because the LP is much larger and on the ballot in more states- more likely to get a meaningful number of votes).

If its Hillary vs. McWar, I just vote Libertarian (assuming they have a candidate who isn't completely nuts).

I don't think the "write-in Ron Paul" thing does much good- I'm not even sure we CAN "write-in" anymore on these touch screen systems.

[trey4sports]

personally, i want to actually effect the race. I got out and did my best to bring in votes for Dr. Paul and when November comes i'll swallow my pride and vote for John McCain because he is the lesser of two-evils at this point.

unless Bob Barr gets the lib. nom.

[ProBlue33]

personally, i want to actually effect the race. I got out and did my best to bring in votes for Dr. Paul and when November comes i'll swallow my pride and vote for John McCain because he is the lesser of two-evils at this point.

unless Bob Barr gets the lib. nom.


You have to be kidding, honestly which is the Lesser of 2 evils

1) Get Government Health Care for our grandkids
Or
2) Have our grandkids still serving in Iraq decades from now
:confused:

[libertarian4321]

personally, i want to actually effect the race. I got out and did my best to bring in votes for Dr. Paul and when November comes i'll swallow my pride and vote for John McCain because he is the lesser of two-evils at this point.

unless Bob Barr gets the lib. nom.

I'm not really sure that George W. McCain is the lesser evil just because he has an "R" next to his name.

He's a hotheaded, stupid, old, warmonger- not exactly what we need in the white house. If you thought Bush was bad, wait 'til you see McWar in action. Obama is way too liberal, but at least he's not a dumb ass (yes, I consider intelligence important in a President- guess that makes me "elitist", lol).

I find almost NOTHING (well, nothing, actually) positive about George W. McCain- and the fact that he got kicked around 40 years ago in a POW camp is not, imho, enough to qualify him to be President.

Did I mention that this soldier finds old man McWar's warmongering to be unforgiveable? This guy should KNOW BETTER!

[libertarian4321]

You have to be kidding, honestly which is the Lesser of 2 evils

1) Get Government Health Care for our grandkids
Or
2) Have our grandkids still serving in Iraq decades from now
:confused:

You've hit on something here.

I'm fiscally conservative as you can be, BUT, if my tax money is going to be spent, I'd rather have it spent HELPING AMERICANS (whether that be health care or fixing a bridge in Minneapolis) that PISSED AWAY on the RAT HOLE we call the "war in Iraq."

Every dollar spent in Iraq is UTTERLY WASTED, nothing good comes from it.

At least inefficient government programs in the USA do some good...

The Iraq War is the biggest FAILED GOVERNMENT PROGRAM we've had in decades- and John McWar supports it fully. This clown will probably take us to war in Iran as well.

NO THANKS to John McWar!

[Akus]

I think we have to wait and see. Depending on who is the LP nominee. Even if it is another party we really dont discuss much. But I think there has to be an effort to vote together in some manner. If Paul gets 200,000 write in. LP gets 500,000 votes, Constitution Party gets 250,000 we will have effectively dropped off the earth. But imagine a quality candidate getting 2 million votes. That is what we need to start out as. People who are very loyal to the county not their own interests who have to be dealt with.

Imagine a quality candidate winning.
Imagine if it's Hillary vs McCain and a third guy from LP and we are ognanized to get him elected. We can pitch in for Ross Perot type 30 min infomercials. We can door-to-door the shit out of our neighborhoods. We can do tons of things.

And if our campaign for the third guy is at all different from Ron Paul's official campaign, we can win.

[pepperpete1]

So you would support McCain even though RON PAUL REFUSES to do so? You would support the guy that is against EVERYTHING that Ron Paul stands for? You would rather lose every ounce of Freedom you have left and KILL this Movement forever?

This isn't about parties, or just about ideals. That is small-minded thinking. We have to think further than 2 inches in front of our face.

Whether someone decides to vote for McCain's opponent or a third party or write-in Ron Paul (in states where they are allowed to).... I can see merits for each of these decisions and I wouldn't fault anyone for making any one of them.

But to me, ANYONE who supports and votes for McCain is a TRAITOR and doesn't understand this Movement at ALL! Those people clearly have not been paying attention to a word Ron Paul and other patriots have been saying this whole time. These people are just Ron Paul "fanboys" as far as I'm concerned.

Sorry for being harsh but this type of logic is absolutely insane.

TruthAtLast, where in my post do you see anything that even suggests that I would vote for McCain or anyone else, certainly not the lesser of two or three evils?

Good grief maybe I should have said I would work with any party that Ron Paul chooses to run for president in. Did you not see, I said I could NOT vote for anyone BUT RON PAUL?

McCain is an obvious front man for the powers that be, same as the puppet Bush.

[CUnknown]

I don't think that members of the Revolution can, in good conscience, vote for an establishment candidate, of either party. You have left the Revolution and kissed the Man's a$$ at that point. "Lesser of two evils" voting = selling out and betraying the Revolution.

It's either a write-in or 3rd party vote for me.

[pepperpete1]

[QUOTE=ProBlue33;1418438]To all these poeple who say they are writing in Ron Paul, how are you going to do that in states that have computer type voting, you have no paper just a screen.:confused:

To vote for a qualified write-in candidate, touch "Write-In" and a keyboard will appear on the screen. Type the name of the candidate and press "OK".

That is R-O-N (space)P-A-U-L , hope this helped.

or you can go to:http://www.sfgov.org/site/elections_index.asp?id=60436:)

[klamath]

I see how this is going. For every one here that says I am voting for Obama someone that leans toward McCain pips up "Well hell if they are voting for the socialist SOB I am going to vote for McCain. For every one here that says I am voting for McCain a person leaning toward Obama or clinton pipes up and says "Well hell if he is going to vote for that warmongering SOB I am going to vote Obama or Clinton.
WOW! Maybe we can have a repeat of the 2000 election, won't that be funnn! That did some much good for us, how could we not want a repeat of that!!!!!

[Oyate]

This point has probably been made but who cares who we vote for? We of all people should know that the popular vote doesn't determine who is president, the electoral college does. Your "vote" is just like participating in a game show for no prize. It's fluff, pure and simple.

I plan to write in Paul because if we do the biggest write-in campaign of all time we might get some media bounce out of it. Other than that, vote for who you please, it makes no, as in 0 difference.

Heck, I'm GLAD the movement has Obama-minded people in it. I'm glad we're not a GOP-only movement.

[DFF]

I doubt there'd be much of a country left after McCain got through with it. That nut wants to climb up Satan's bunghole in his search for bin Laden, and you just know he wants to drag America along on the trip.

I think his actual quote was "I'd follow Osama bin Laden to the gates of hell." Totally not the language I want to hear from a guy with his hand on a nuclear trigger.

He actually would have to climb up Satan's bunghole to find Bin-Laden, since, according to Benazir Bhuto (RIP), he's dead.

[phree]

I skimmed a little more of this thread and I've already read too much bullshit. One person actually admitted to voting for the lesser of two evils! Others say screw the GOP by voting Dem. I though people here had more sense than this. Well, maybe I didn't but I didn't think it was THIS bad. I think the people who favor Obama over Clinton are the most deluded.

I still say the only real protest vote is to not vote at all. "Strategic" voting to favor one of these assholes over the other is the ultimate in futility. At least my non-vote will be pure and honest. I don't support any of these twisted morons.

[Oyate]

I think the people who favor Obama over Clinton are the most deluded.

LOL. I guess everybody is somebody's pet delusional.

Frankly, the only thing that really matters is that we continue on with the R3VOlUTION after elections.

[rajibo]

I skimmed a little more of this thread and I've already read too much bullshit. One person actually admitted to voting for the lesser of two evils! Others say screw the GOP by voting Dem. I though people here had more sense than this. Well, maybe I didn't but I didn't think it was THIS bad. I think the people who favor Obama over Clinton are the most deluded.

I still say the only real protest vote is to not vote at all. "Strategic" voting to favor one of these assholes over the other is the ultimate in futility. At least my non-vote will be pure and honest. I don't support any of these twisted morons.

Unfortunately, your nonvote will not be recorded. We truly need a 'none of the above option' on the ballot.

I wonder if the voting machines accept blank ballots. If they do, we should all submit blank ballots.

[Broadlighter]

Under no circumstances give your vote to the powers-that-be. No vote for McCain, no for Hillary, no for Obama. We need to jack up the numbers for CP, LP or write in Ron Paul.

We need to show everyone that the tripe offered up by the CFR and their social network is unacceptable. We need to embolden voters who in the past felt there were no other choices. We need to work towards critical mass and a vote for Hillary McBama only works against that critical mass.

[moostraks]

After what I have seen of the GOP maneuvering to out strategize our thinking:

1-It is dumb to put out strategy in an open forum. Yes they are watching what we say and have been using it to their advantage.
2-As long as diebold is counting votes with electronic screens that don't have to leave at paper trail, outwitting them is fairly futile.
3-The cfr candidate who proves themselves most easily manipulated will win. That is a three-headed coin toss right now. They are all boils on the butt of humanity. There is no lesser evil from these three.
4-The electoral college is what matters and just like the so-called national convention, matters will be handled just as effectively to achieve the desired outcome.

FWIW I am not a troll, so don't go there. I have known for awhile that the government was polluted, but have just recently realized how futile the current system is and how high a level the dirty tricks are played. I think there will not be any real change until we realize that it will take a real revolution. Fighting them within the system is futile. To change the current status quo will involve more than strategic poll efforts. How many patriots will have to stand up and be prepared to lose all they hold dear??

They have the power, and keep us in line through fear of the consequences they can inflict upon us. I have wrestled with them before. They want people who react they way they anticipate them to react. They do not like people whose ideology falls outside the mainstream. That is why they are harassing those families in Texas. That is why Snipes got 3 years of jail time. They have made it so they can destroy you based upon perceived values and possible anticipated outcomes. I have a huge family that depends on me, what do you have to lose?

[BarryDonegan]

if were going to have one of the democrats be president, Hillary is far better than Obama. She has big negatives and will have a harder time getting the american people behind terrible stuff.

Obama is a good enough orator with suspect enough ethics to say convince even all the uppity liberals that attacking 3 -4 more countries such as iran, darfur, syria and rwanda is a good idea.

THEN try and convince everyone to support non-intervention.

Obama is the biggest problem we face this election. He can make murderous, evil George W. Bush type policies feel humanitarian and different.

but they won't be different.

Same thing happened during the Clinton era, Clinton attacked MORE countries than both Bush's combined, but you don't hear him getting the rap for that.

IMO smart money is on voting for a Libertarian in a battleground state if Ron Paul isn't elected... forcing the republican party to lose because of a successful libertarian campaign gives over more power to the LP.

[hillbilly123069]

Vote Dr Paul or someone whom has as much integrity,or your voted is wasted and we pass the way of empires before us
I can see voting for another party, but I just don't see the purpose of writing someone in. In fact, what I'm probably going to do is review all the candidates from all parties and choose the one that respects the Constitution the most.

[JK/SEA]

As long as there is a sliver of hope for Ron to get the nomination, i will continue towards my path to Spokane Wa for our State convention.

Plan 'B' is to write his name in. Maybe in blood.

[mdh]

I'd say pick from the best candidates available where you are. If your state allows/counts write-ins for anyone, then Dr. Paul may be the best choice. If it doesn't, then the LP or CP candidate may be.

For the love of God, though, don't sell your soul to Obama or McCain. :p

[TruthAtLast]

TruthAtLast, where in my post do you see anything that even suggests that I would vote for McCain or anyone else, certainly not the lesser of two or three evils?

Good grief maybe I should have said I would work with any party that Ron Paul chooses to run for president in. Did you not see, I said I could NOT vote for anyone BUT RON PAUL?

McCain is an obvious front man for the powers that be, same as the puppet Bush.


I based my comment on your statement:


Whatever party Ron Paul is running in is the party I will support.

If I took this out of context I apologize but my response still stands for all others who want to support McCain just because he is a Republican, or because they are more afraid of a socialist state (that we already live in) than a police state that strips us of every last ounce of Freedom we have left.

I'm sorry if I attacked you specifically pepperpete1.

[libertarian4321]

Same thing happened during the Clinton era, Clinton attacked MORE countries than both Bush's combined, but you don't hear him getting the rap for that.


Let me help you out with this one (I suspect its obvious to most).

Clinton's interventions resulted in a grand total of ZERO combat deaths. I didn't agree with them, and they cost too much money, but Bosnia, Kosovo, Haiti, etc got no Americans killed.

You get a lot more "rap" when there is a steady stream of body bags coming home (Bush's war).

BTW, before you fly off the handle and mention the 20+ dead from Somalia, that was a Bush Sr. operation- a final "screw you" to the American people in December of 2000 (a fact that many seem to forget).

[LittleLightShining]

I'm completely blown away by what I've just read. There are a bunch of people here making all kinds of excuses why they'll vote for one head of the 3-headed beast and spit in the face of Ron Paul. I just don't get it. Up until now I was fairly certain that there were more people here who truly value liberty and freedom but I guess I was mistaken. By the looks of this thread there are just about a handful of stalwarts. I salute you!

I'm writing in Ron Paul. I will not be responsible for using the one tool that I was given by the architects of this great republic to kill it. If it's going to die it's going to die, but I don't want the blood on my hands.

I'm not sure where all the love for Obama came from all of a sudden either, but this is what I think: This election is rigged for Hillary. This country is headed for a police state and it will not be any more likely from the hands of John McCain than it will be from Clinton. If Obama wins, Hillary will be the VP, Obama will be sacrificed-- perhaps after he convinces the masses that the NAU is "change we can believe in!" Rioting will ensue and Hillary will have to declare martial law. The pieces are all there. The Democrats in Congress didn't fight Bush's executive orders because they wanted to keep them for themselves.

If McCain wins--which he won't-- but if he does, the war will continue (as it would with a Democrat) but our taxes won't increase as much and we might get a sort-of conservative Supreme Court nominee. Many Republicans are arguing this way for him, but if he wins, as Chuck Baldwin said, the GOP will go back to sleep and then we'll be in trouble. At least in a Democrat-win situation the GOP will stay on its toes.

We have to write in Ron Paul unless he endorses someone on the ballot in all 50 states. We need to be a solid voting bloc and sens a message to them all.

[satchelmcqueen]

Im voting paul even on a write in. This shouldnt even be a question at all. Come on people!

[majinkoola]

This is so dumb. I know there's going to be RP supporters voting for McCain because he's the "lesser of two evils." Trust me they're there, I've converted a lot of my friends to RP based on his fiscal policy and they're going to vote for the R. And now others will vote for the Dem. It will just cancel out.

Those votes would be much better suited going to the LP or CP, depending on who those candidates are. That would be huge for the future.

What really needs to happen, is the CP and LP need to get their heads out of their butts and nominate Ron Paul whether he likes it or not. That'd be an instant 2 million votes with 0 campaigning. Then these decisions wouldn't have to be made.

[TruthAtLast]

People keep saying they will write in Ron Paul but many states don't allow write-ins and they WILL NOT BE COUNTED. There is no "write in" button on the screen in many states. And even if you sent in a provisional ballot it will NOT be counted. You may as well sleep in an not bother showing up at all if that is your only solution.

[pepperpete1]

People keep saying they will write in Ron Paul but many states don't allow write-ins and they WILL NOT BE COUNTED. There is no "write in" button on the screen in many states. And even if you sent in a provisional ballot it will NOT be counted. You may as well sleep in an not bother showing up at all if that is your only solution.

If my memory serves me, I read that there about 6 states that do not allow write-in votes and therefore the candidates need not file. But in those states that do the campaign must file the proper forms within a timeline given. If I had to vote on a screen that did not allow me the option of write-in and I knew RP was registered with the state, I would demand, the poll workers give me a paper ballot to write him in and then I would check to see if my and any others I knew wrote him in was counted. That's just me. I'm a little stubborn that way.:)

TruthAtLast....No harm....No foul. I was just puzzled. Must have been my wording.lol

[angelatc]

I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

I am not voting to bury McCain, nor am I voting against anybody. I am voting for Ron Paul.

[haigh]

The public test of the Ron Paul Movement will come if Ron Paul declares who he is voting for and advises the Movement to do the same. If the Movement goes against him the MSM will have a field day, and the Movement will look dead.

If Ron Paul advises the LP or CP, those who write him in will be undermining his strategy.

In short, keep your powder dry.

[kigol]

My opinion only...

If Hillary is in the race, write in Ron Paul.
If Obama is in the race, vote Obama.

pretty much.

[Alawn]

Wrong.

Right now the Republicans are threatening to put more "Conservatives" on the bench.

Allowing McCain in there is asking to be enslaved. It is asking for a police state. A democrat can stem the bleeding from at least one hole.

Are you crazy?

Do you realize what will happen if Democrats put more of their people on the bench?

I'm not saying the Republicans will put on good Judges. I'm sure they won't but the Dems will put on equally bad ones for sure. If they get their way all guns will be gone period. No more second Amendment at all. Congress will have the authority to pass absolutely any law they want no matter what. Forget about states' rights or Congress only having the authority given in the constitution. Get ready for economic disaster and socialism like you have never seen. The liberal judges are decent on criminal law but absolutely horrible on every single other aspect of the constitution.

Unfortunately though the republican judges will make criminal law a lot worse.

Both will bring the police state but through different means.

[Soccrmastr]

Constituion Party... 0.o!!

also @ "A democrat can stem the bleeding from at least one hole."

r u high?

[pcosmar]

Are you crazy?

Do you realize what will happen if Democrats put more of their people on the bench?

I'm not saying the Republicans will put on good Judges. I'm sure they won't but the Dems will put on equally bad ones for sure. If they get their way all guns will be gone period. No more second Amendment at all. Congress will have the authority to pass absolutely any law they want no matter what. Forget about states' rights or Congress only having the authority given in the constitution. Get ready for economic disaster and socialism like you have never seen. The liberal judges are decent on criminal law but absolutely horrible on every single other aspect of the constitution.

Unfortunately though the republican judges will make criminal law a lot worse.

Both will bring the police state but through different means.

The jury is still out on the question of judges.
I am waiting "with baited breath"for their ruling on the 2nd amendment.

There is really NO DIFFERENCE between McCain and the Democrats, wording, semantics, and lies.
I will write in Ron Paul (if he is not on the ticket) as my choice.
I can NOT vote for more of the same.

[Alawn]

No way on earth I will ever vote for Hillary or Obama. But I also can't stand McCain so I wont vote for him either. I am going to either write in Ron Paul or vote for the Libertarian candidate.

[phree]

Thank goodness some sane people are posting. I even agree with pcosmar!

[jd603]

Dumb idea, the dems don;t need your vote, they are a guaranteed win, write-in ron or don't vote, seriously.



I think we need to start sending the message that we will not only not vote for McCain, but we will vote for his opponent. I'm sorry, but I don't see a purpose in writing someone in when write-in votes aren't counted.

[CelestialRender]

I _may_ vote strategically, but will very likely be writing in RP and/or voting LP/CP, depending on their candidates.

But voting for a Dem, just for the sake of pissing off the GOP doesn't work...it would only be billed as being part of the surge the Dems are seeing.

[satchelmcqueen]

People keep saying they will write in Ron Paul but many states don't allow write-ins and they WILL NOT BE COUNTED. There is no "write in" button on the screen in many states. And even if you sent in a provisional ballot it will NOT be counted. You may as well sleep in an not bother showing up at all if that is your only solution.

yeah, if this happens in good ol georgia, i will whoop somebodys ass real quick like. i guess i might be spending the night in jail in november huh?


Serious question though, why in the world are write ins not counted? What a joke and a fraud to not do so.