You are dead to me Gravel. Dead to me.

[Conza88]

Ron Paul is a "Homophobe" who Supports "Black Water": Mike Gravel says to Harvard Democrats(subtly)
Posted April 23rd, 2008 by NotOverYet

Gravel starts by saying: "Ron is a funny kind of Libertarian for me" then starts the dis-information and slander like alleging Ron Paul wanting to make a private Military and he Quotes Black water as an example... etc...... What a liar! Scaring voters away from Ron Paul instead of promoting his own message.
More here: http://www.dailypaul.com/node/46654


Proof Evidence:
Here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8xYhPtomwCg)

You are dead to me Gravel. Dead to me.

[yaz]

It baffles me why people here adore him.

[ClayTrainor]

Meh, he's just trying to get people to vote for him instead or Ron, that's what politicians do... He's no Ron Paul, and i am on your side here, dont get me wrong.

He is pretty off with some of the things he said, but perhaps that's his view on Ron Pauls platform, we know other people have been very misinformed of Ron's positions in the past.

I still like and respect mike, although i strongly disagree with alot of his Policies, we are all on the same page with this war, and we need to all work together to stop it.

Gravel needs to be included in our revolution, despite what he says to a few harvard kids :)

[RedLightning]

It baffles me why people here adore him.
I agree.


Gravel needs to be included in our revolution, despite what he says to a few harvard kids :)

No, he doesn't.

[libertythor]

It sounds like he though "oh shit" when his name was mentioned and just started grasping at straws.

[ClayTrainor]

No, he doesn't.

well... if you want our revolution to consist of people who simply just love ron paul... well then, it's gonna be a pretty small pathetic revolution, sorry...

I still think Gravel is spot-on with the war, just like we are and that is the most detrimental thing to America right now, the war.

I believe Gravel can help more than he can hurt... clearly your pretty offended by a few measly words, I've heard much worse over the course of this race, and i think Gravel may be just taking ron pauls message the wrong way or is just misinformed.

[revolutionary8]

I was wondering if Weigel (author of the article), also author of this artlicle-->

Then there are the freaks. I don't use that word pejoratively. There is nothing too scary about "Lisa Marie" (no last name, thanks), who tells me that Paul is an "angel" who understands the threat posed by the Bilderbergs. Or Terry Cummings, a musician who tells me to go to BlackBoxVoting.org to see how these elections might be rigged. "There's supposed to a special tape on those voting machines," he says, "but anyone can rip the tape off and tamper with them. Watch the videos!" If they were the only people who showed up on Paul's Pennsylvania jaunt, it would be a problem. But they're only the leading edge of his fan base. They clarify why Paul is doing this and why he can still draw crowds. He is a counterculture figure now, and he doesn't know what to do about it. He knows only that he wants to speak on some campuses and bask in the applause.
http://reason.com/news/show/125959.html
is a neocon or neolib.
Confirmed - neocon.
lmao. Not that there is any difference rather than who wins the money when betting on Russian Roulette.
The gates are crashing.

[acroso]

Yes I have no idea why people like that guy either. I saw some of his campaign commercials that had Helter Skelter playing in the back ground....and he literally looked insane.

[V4Vendetta]

I never liked him.
He supports Real ID and global government

[revolutionary8]

I never liked him.
He supports Real ID and global government
So does the guy who wrote the article.
http://www.reason.com/blog/show/12555

People often ask Gravel about Ron Paul: Their support overlaps for what I can only assume is because both of them fit as awkwardly in the current political rubric as Abbie Hoffman or a clown on fire. "A lot of people have said the two of us should debate," Gravel said. "I don't want some political hack debate, but we could have a real interesting, intellectual debate if we had the right moderator. Bill Moyers would be a good guy to do that."

Several Minutes with Mike Gravel

David Weigel | March 18, 2008, 8:21am

[cv6nick]

In the same video of those quotes...he said he would offer Ron Paul Secretary of Defense if Gravel became President.

[Dave Pedersen]

Yeah pretty lame mis-summation of Paul. Totally lied about privatizing the military. I think he ad libbed out of ignorance. He's in dreamland thinking he has any chance. Oh.. he'd appoint Ron Paul secretary of defense "with the proviso".. har har har..

C'mon everyone, let's support Gravel so our man can be appointed secretary of defense. With tha proviso, of course..

Waste of time.

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

"You're dead to me boy. You're more dead to me than your dead mother."

[orlandoinfl]

What an asshole. Politics as usual, eh?

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Mike Gravel has lost my support in the LP. Seeya.

[JMann]

well... if you want our revolution to consist of people who simply just love ron paul... well then, it's gonna be a pretty small pathetic revolution, sorry...

I still think Gravel is spot-on with the war, just like we are and that is the most detrimental thing to America right now, the war.

I believe Gravel can help more than he can hurt... clearly your pretty offended by a few measly words, I've heard much worse over the course of this race, and i think Gravel may be just taking ron pauls message the wrong way or is just misinformed.

Amen brother. This is the problem with so many of the 'new' Ron Paul supporters. Do or die, my way or the highway.

[EotS]

Check out the Scott Horton interview of Mike Gravel. It'll give you a real idea who he is. Besides, if you've never listened to Scott's interview, you should definitely check them out.

http://antiwar.com/radio/2008/04/07/mike-gravel/

[hopeforamerica]

Amen brother. This is the problem with so many of the 'new' Ron Paul supporters. Do or die, my way or the highway.

I support people of principal. To dismiss this as "just politics" is to accept the status quo. It's utter b.s.! Also, I do not and will not support his positions on the real id etc....

[JMann]

supporting principal in politics will doom you to irrelevancy. Politics is sales and negotiation not principal. If that is what you are interested in maybe you should consider a life in academia and far away from politics.

[acptulsa]

supporting principal in politics will doom you to irrelevancy. Politics is sales and negotiation not principal. If that is what you are interested in maybe you should consider a life in academia and far away from politics.

Trying to learn to sell principle and negotiate with the consciences of conservatives is pretty much what this movement is all about. Trading lesser evils for ideals is the revolution we're trying to implement. I'm not ready to give up just yet.

[EotS]

Ideas always win in the long run. Utilitarianism is a sell-out, and politics will eat you alive.

[hopeforamerica]

Trying to learn to sell principle and negotiate with the consciences of conservatives is pretty much what this movement is all about. Trading lesser evils for ideals is the revolution we're trying to implement. I'm not ready to give up just yet.

You get it!!! Now if we could get more to understand the same. Ron Paul has principles, there are many that do. We just need to out number those that don't. In my area we are working hard to out number the neocons and we will take over soon!

[G-Wohl]

supporting principal in politics will doom you to irrelevancy. Politics is sales and negotiation not principal. If that is what you are interested in maybe you should consider a life in academia and far away from politics.

Ron Paul has been supporting principle in politics for his entire political career.

[yaz]

I never liked him.
He supports Real ID and global government

+1

[rayzer]

Mike Gravel thinks that his "National Initiative" will fix everything.

The plan would allow "the people" to "make the laws". He thinks somehow by removing "representative government", all of the sudden people will start educating themselves and acting morally.

We plan to debate him on The North Virginia Patriots Show (http://www.NorthVirginiaPatriots.com) soon. If you want to help explain to Mike what his is what is wrong with his idea, or even if you think it is a GOOD idea, let us know!

Thanks!

Sincerely,
Ray Powell
http://www.RaymondPowell.com

[Bern]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bA2LgJviH9w

Hoo!

[wgadget]

It baffles me why people here adore him.

The only thing adorable about him was his rock commercial.

[yongrel]

I enjoyed his music video thingy, and I really loved his performances in the debates, but that is as far as my sympathies for him go.

[mdh]

I never liked him.
He supports Real ID and global government

No he doesn't. That stuff was spun up based on a misunderstanding of things he said in the past, but the fact is he doesn't. I've spoken to Senator Gravel a number of times personally. While he is not the same as Ron Paul in a vast many ways, he's gutsy, honest, and gives a damn about the country. Agree with him on the issues or not, you've gotta respect him just on character alone.

[constituent]

i like gravel. ray, keep us posted on your interview. i've got lots of questions to drop in the chat.

[Alawn]

Gravel is worthless. I would never vote for him in a million years no matter who the alternatives were. He does not need to be included. All he could possibly do for us is make us lose credibility.

[crazyfingers]

I'd rather vote for Hillary...much rather.

[Soccrmastr]

Gravel is a globalist. Why do you people even care about him.

[wgadget]

Why does this thread title remind me of Tevya in Fiddler on the Roof?

Hmmm.

[weslinder]

I'd rather vote for Hillary...much rather.

As would I. Make no mistake, Mike Gravel is a national socialist right out of the mold of Wilson and Hoover. Hillary is a populist.

[Rhys]

Gravel was alive to you at one point. I'm sorry. It's better this way for you now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPZ7t4MwCJk

gravel covers helter skelter

[HollyforRP]

I trust Ron Paul. I don't trust Mike Gravel. He's trying to tap into Ron Paul's support and doing it in a idiotic way.

Yeah like we need more smear campaigns against Ron Paul. Mike Gravel, if you really said all of that stuff...we already have the news outlet for slander okay?? Thanks.

Now go build your own platform and quit thinking you can tap into Ron Paul's grassroots support by slandering him. Go away, shoo.

[FireofLiberty]

Mike Gravel is a funny kind of Libertarian to me because he was a Democrat a few weeks ago and supporters single-payer government health care and a "citizen's wage."

[Conza88]

Mike Gravel is a funny kind of Libertarian to me because he was a Democrat a few weeks ago and supporters single-payer government health care and a "citizen's wage."

Ok. Hahha that was quality. :D

I have respect for the man sure. He wld have woken up some democrats to a certain extent with those debates. And truth to power anywhere is GOOD. I think he was just misinformed there, or ignorant - whatever the case Ron Paul is right out of his league.

He should have stayed on the dems side and try to bring sanity to that mob, imo. Libertarian party has better to offer imo.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Gravel says the LP is the party of FDR LOL

[SeanEdwards]

What's so terrible about private military companies?

[FireofLiberty]

What's so terrible about private military companies?

Well, if we didn't have this interventionist foreign policy of policing the world their would be no economic incentive for private military companies to exist.

[RonPaulwillWin]

Wow, a political troll

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Well, if we didn't have this interventionist foreign policy of policing the world their would be no economic incentive for private military companies to exist.

so? doesn't make it right.

[mczerone]

Well, if we didn't have this interventionist foreign policy of policing the world their would be no economic incentive for private military companies to exist.

And because they DO exist, how long until we have our Caesar, who finally wrangles the "Middle East" to accept our empirical control, only to parade his victory back to Washington, accept the Emperor-ship and kill the Republic forever?

[Conza88]

And because they DO exist, how long until we have our Caesar, who finally wrangles the "Middle East" to accept our empirical control, only to parade his victory back to Washington, accept the Emperor-ship and kill the Republic forever?

They've learnt from History. This time its not going to be one person. Its the whole system that comes Marching back. As far as empirical control - the US has setup central banks in Afghanistan and Iraq, since the invasion.. soo.. :eek:

[FireofLiberty]

so? doesn't make it right.

I wasn't saying it's right or wrong. Personally, I don't see the need for private military companies as I believe that defense is a legitimate and Constitutional function of federal government. If we had a truly strong national defense instead of a foreign policy of interventionism and militarism we wouldn't have any need for private military companies like Blackwater USA. The U.S. military could handle any real treat and we wouldn't be involved in nation building, which is the chief reason companies like Blackwater are hired because under our current (and flawed) foreign policy their service is required to ensure "stability."

My point was that private military companies are a symptom of our flawed foreign policy so while there may not be anything wrong with them in and of themselves, when coupled with our flawed foreign policy there is something wrong with them because they exist solely because of our flawed policy.

The simple fact is Blackwater USA, et al. wouldn't exist because they'd never find any work and therefore never make any money because they'd never be needed if we wouldn't out policing the world and conducting this unmanageable foreign policy. Our interventionist foreign policy has created an economic incentive for companies like Blackwater to exist because there is a demand for their services. It's basic economics. When something is in high demand an incentive is created to meet said demand with a supply. In other words, the Department of Defense has a demand for more troops because our U.S. military is stretched so thin do to our interventionist foreign policy so companies like Blackwater pop up in response to that demand because of the financial incentive to do so and thus they create supply to fulfill the DoD's demand. In this case a supply of more troops.

[Knightskye]

Seriously, according to Mike Gravel, we're "already in a police state, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbSh-3G3HJU) so why not get a national ID card?" Sorry, if you're for liberty, you're a Libertarian, like Ron says. Gravel's running for the wrong party's nomination.

[G-Wohl]

Seriously, according to Mike Gravel, we're "already in a police state, (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lbSh-3G3HJU) so why not get a national ID card?" Sorry, if you're for liberty, you're a Libertarian, like Ron says. Gravel's running for the wrong party's nomination.

I don't think he's incorrect at all to assert that we live in a police state today.

[SeanEdwards]

Well, if we didn't have this interventionist foreign policy of policing the world their would be no economic incentive for private military companies to exist.

I don't think that's true. Private companies and individuals often need security. Nation states may have a need for what are essentially mercenaries. Even non-governmental organizations might have a need for private military corporations.

Paul has repeatedly introduced legislation calling for the use of letters of marque to license private individuals to conduct warfare against enemies of the state. Is this really such a terrible idea? Is it worse than using compulsion to order military service people to fight in a cause they may not necessarily agree with? For pay that may not be commensurate with the risk? At least mercenaries can quit without going to prison.

[FireofLiberty]

I don't think that's true. Private companies and individuals often need security. Nation states may have a need for what are essentially mercenaries. Even non-governmental organizations might have a need for private military corporations.

Paul has repeatedly introduced legislation calling for the use of letters of marque to license private individuals to conduct warfare against enemies of the state. Is this really such a terrible idea? Is it worse than using compulsion to order military service people to fight in a cause they may not necessarily agree with? For pay that may not be commensurate with the risk? At least mercenaries can quit without going to prison.

Letters of marque and reprisal =/= private military companies. There's a difference between Blackwater USA and what they do and what bounty hunters do.

[SeanEdwards]

Letters of marque and reprisal =/= private military companies. There's a difference between Blackwater USA and what they do and what bounty hunters do.

Anyone taking up a letter of marque and reprisal is a private military company. They are not the same as bounty hunters. Bounty hunters are private citizens who help enforce verdicts of the courts. Privateers (holders of a letter of marque) are private citizens commissioned by the state to conduct actions that may involve the use of force without any court sanction.

Of course, nobody is currently operating under letters of marque since our government thinks the U.S. Constitution is a joke. However, if our government did actually follow the Constitution there would certainly be a place for companies like Blackwater as the modern version of privateers.

[Catatonic]

Gravel is crazy. But he's a pretty okay guy, especially considering the run of the mill politician.

He's no ron paul and he has his faults but I'll take him over nearly all of the other candidates.

The videos of him filibustering to end the viet nam war are pretty awesome. Yeah he's a socialist, yeah I don't completely trust him, but overall he's a lot better than most. If we're going to get a socialist anyway why not get one that means well and isn't 100% pure evil?

He's against this war and he'd like to get rid of the income tax. I'd say thats a good start. No?

I'd vote for ron paul over gravel but gravel would be a second or third pick considering the lineup.