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TruePatriot44
04-22-2008, 09:17 PM
I am really disappointed in this. We don't need more imported foreign labor during a recession.

http://www.news.com/8301-10784_3-9924427-7.html

jpa
04-23-2008, 12:25 AM
uhh H1-B isn't labor

its high tech workers, which we need more of. Who do you think is going to build the products that are going to turn around the economy? machinists?

Truth Warrior
04-23-2008, 05:13 AM
The IT industry in the US has gone insane. It has no one to blame for it's ongoing labor shortage ( so called ) woes other than itself.

Overall the war on the middle class continues. Are you the next casualty?

Truth Warrior
04-23-2008, 06:32 AM
Technology workers across the board must stand together against the forces that put our careers at risk, such as:

Replacement by H-1B and L-1 visa workers
Outsourcing jobs to offshore contractors
Shifting jobs to overseas facilities
False claims of a labor shortage in our profession
Conversion of pensions to cash balance plans
Age discrimination
Job ads drafted with intent to exclude U.S. applicants
Lack of respect for our training, experience, knowledge, and past achievements
http://www.programmersguild.org/

jpa
04-23-2008, 04:14 PM
Technology workers across the board must stand together against the forces that put our careers at risk, such as:

Replacement by H-1B and L-1 visa workers

Why? H1-B's can't be paid less than a citizen gets.

Using your logic, we should force universities to gradaute less students in comp sci & IT fields, right? We can't have new people competing for our jobs, right?



Outsourcing jobs to offshore contractors
Shifting jobs to overseas facilities


What right does the government have over me if I find someone is able to do the a job for less in a different place? Where does the government get its authority to intervene in a private, voluntary exchange between 2 people?



False claims of a labor shortage in our profession
Conversion of pensions to cash balance plans
Age discrimination
Job ads drafted with intent to exclude U.S. applicants
Lack of respect for our training, experience, knowledge, and past achievements
http://www.programmersguild.org/

How are any of these specific to tech workers? Aren't these issues with any workers?

I am a tech worker and I don't see why you want to lobby the government for unconstitutional regulations for special interests. Frankly, everything you posted is very un-libretarian.

I am all for a private, voluntary professional membership society. I am all for collective bargaining to get better terms for tech workers, but please leave the lobbying & regulation for the corrupt professions like law & medicine...

ChooseLiberty
04-23-2008, 04:28 PM
You can't seriously be this naive.


Why? H1-B's can't be paid less than a citizen gets.

Truth Warrior
04-23-2008, 04:59 PM
jpa --

If that's your logic, I'd really hate see or work on your code. Yep, you're "qualified". I'll bet you're also under 45.

Question: What's libertarian about H1B or L1? Answer: NADA!

freelance
04-23-2008, 05:06 PM
uhh H1-B isn't labor

its high tech workers, which we need more of. Who do you think is going to build the products that are going to turn around the economy? machinists?

Well, then, why not reinstate all of us out-of-work or under-employed IT workers who got off-shored years ago!!! We're still here.

Truth Warrior
04-23-2008, 05:10 PM
Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html

jpa
04-24-2008, 06:50 PM
jpa --

If that's your logic, I'd really hate see or work on your code. Yep, you're "qualified". I'll bet you're also under 45.

Question: What's libertarian about H1B or L1? Answer: NADA!

uhh most libertarians believe there should be no caps on H1-Bs... a lot of us believe in open borders (only with no welfare state and very strong private property rights)

Phillies Calls for End to H1-B Visa Quotas
http://www.american-election.com/2008/03/25/phillies-calls-for-end-to-h1-b-visa-quotas/

http://www.mises.org/story/1980
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_perspectives_on_immigration


Also, I choose to ignore your personal attack. You fail at reasonable debate, so you attack my coding skills and my age.

jpa
04-24-2008, 06:57 PM
Well, then, why not reinstate all of us out-of-work or under-employed IT workers who got off-shored years ago!!! We're still here.

Are you in mountain view CA or willing to relocate?

The company I work for has 15+ engineering positions open. All pay over $120k per year. This is the norm for most companies around here.

Most start ups and programmers who become entrepreneurs are fueled by recent immigrants. A lot of the web / software boom was fuled by immigrants, which created a lot of jobs in the IT field. I won't comment on the IT field, but I do know most of the people in IT who call themselves programmers are not, they are more like system integrators.

And if I own a software company, I would want to get the most qualified people who can do the job for the least ammount of compensation. That is free market. I say fuck off to any special interest group that tries to use governmental control to prevent me from hiring the best people I can get.

Bradley in DC
04-24-2008, 07:04 PM
Where is their constitutional authority to regulate this at all?

Kalifornia
04-24-2008, 07:33 PM
uhh H1-B isn't labor

its high tech workers, which we need more of. Who do you think is going to build the products that are going to turn around the economy? machinists?


we do NOT need more high tech workers. There are plenty of high tech workers. H1Bs just allow companies to hire high tech workers for $12 an hour instead of $30 to $50.

Kalifornia
04-24-2008, 07:34 PM
Are you in mountain view CA or willing to relocate?

The company I work for has 15+ engineering positions open. All pay over $120k per year. This is the norm for most companies around here.

Most start ups and programmers who become entrepreneurs are fueled by recent immigrants. A lot of the web / software boom was fuled by immigrants, which created a lot of jobs in the IT field. I won't comment on the IT field, but I do know most of the people in IT who call themselves programmers are not, they are more like system integrators.

And if I own a software company, I would want to get the most qualified people who can do the job for the least ammount of compensation. That is free market. I say fuck off to any special interest group that tries to use governmental control to prevent me from hiring the best people I can get.

The US citizenry is not a 'special interest group'.

Kalifornia
04-24-2008, 07:40 PM
Why? H1-B's can't be paid less than a citizen gets.

wrong. This is regularly done



Using your logic, we should force universities to gradaute less students in comp sci & IT fields, right? We can't have new people competing for our jobs, right?

No, when salaries increase due to DOMESTIC SUPPLY AND DEMAND, this will motivate more US citizens to enter these fields. It worked great in the first tech boom.


What right does the government have over me if I find someone is able to do the a job for less in a different place? Where does the government get its authority to intervene in a private, voluntary exchange between 2 people?

national boundaries matter. natonal cultures matter. you can trade freely for products with anyone in the world, (not really, but lets say for argument), it is an entirely different thing to import workers to piss in the labor pool and reduce earnings of your fellow citizens.


I am a tech worker and I don't see why you want to lobby the government for unconstitutional regulations for special interests. Frankly, everything you posted is very un-libretarian.

Actually, regulating immigration is one of the few things congress has a constitutional power to do. The issue is not lobbying by citizens (hello, who does the US government serve?), but the lobbying by high tech employers that is the problem.

Kalifornia
04-24-2008, 07:42 PM
uhh most libertarians believe there should be no caps on H1-Bs... a lot of us believe in open borders (only with no welfare state and very strong private property rights)

Phillies Calls for End to H1-B Visa Quotas
http://www.american-election.com/2008/03/25/phillies-calls-for-end-to-h1-b-visa-quotas/

http://www.mises.org/story/1980
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libertarian_perspectives_on_immigration


Also, I choose to ignore your personal attack. You fail at reasonable debate, so you attack my coding skills and my age.

These are in particular anarcho-capitalist positions. Many nationalist small l libertarians, like myself, would dispute your claims.

jpa
04-24-2008, 09:51 PM
wrong. This is regularly done

national boundaries matter. natonal cultures matter. you can trade freely for products with anyone in the world, (not really, but lets say for argument), it is an entirely different thing to import workers to piss in the labor pool and reduce earnings of your fellow citizens.


I find it logically inconsistant to argue for free trade of product, but not for free trade of services (skilled labor).
Protectionism is Protectionism, no matter if its for products or services. Ultimately, it hurts the nation that engages in it.

That line of reasoning says free trade is good for Widgets (which means possible manufactoring job loss for people who make Widgets) but free trade is bad if the exchange is services (where there it is possible for high tech job loss).



Actually, regulating immigration is one of the few things congress has a constitutional power to do. The issue is not lobbying by citizens (hello, who does the US government serve?), but the lobbying by high tech employers that is the problem.

If the US engages in limiting the immigration of high skilled labor, the solution for business owners is simple: move development to where better labor markets exist. That means less high tech companies in the US, which then means dramatically less high tech jobs in the US. And less support, marketing, etc jobs which harms all of us.

Proof point for this is Microsoft's opening of a development facility in Canada across the border from Redmond. Google has already stated they feel the US developer labor market is saturated, and they very cautious that hiring on a large scale in the US will hurt their engineering quality & ability to execute.

The solution is to remove H1-Bs completely, and simplify the immigration process for anyone wants to the US and work! (we should also for the eliminate the welfare state so there is no abuse)

People who are crying for immigration limits are using the same broken reasoning that caused the auto industry in the US to lose its global lead. Instead of acting in the best interests of the business and building cars in cheaper labor markets, the US auto makers are now desperate to compete with east asian manufactors. And that hurt all americans, not just the auto manufactoring jobs.

If someone can build a better car for cheaper in east asia, then the job is going to move there regardless of any laws (other than banning imports). Either a US company is going to build cars there, or a east asian company is going to sell better, cheaper cars in the US.

If someone can integrate back office systems, administrate servers, or customize systems to business requirements better & cheaper in India, than the job is going to move there no matter what laws there are or how you feel about it. Either US companies are going to do that work there, or an Indian companies that do it will get more business.

Embrace change, learn new skills that can not be exported, or go into business for yourself. Stop petitioning the government because you don't want to compete with a global labor market.

Look at the growth of America, we became a superpower because smart people from all over the world came here and worked hard! We will no longer be an economic superpower if change that success formula.

Kalifornia
04-24-2008, 11:05 PM
I find it logically inconsistant to argue for free trade of product, but not for free trade of services (skilled labor).
Protectionism is Protectionism, no matter if its for products or services. Ultimately, it hurts the nation that engages in it.
That line of reasoning says free trade is good for Widgets (which means possible manufactoring job loss for people who make Widgets) but free trade is bad if the exchange is services (where there it is possible for high tech job loss).
If the US engages in limiting the immigration of high skilled labor, the solution for business owners is simple: move development to where better labor markets exist. That means less high tech companies in the US, which then means dramatically less high tech jobs in the US. And less support, marketing, etc jobs which harms all of us.
Proof point for this is Microsoft's opening of a development facility in Canada across the border from Redmond. Google has already stated they feel the US developer labor market is saturated, and they very cautious that hiring on a large scale in the US will hurt their engineering quality & ability to execute.
The solution is to remove H1-Bs completely, and simplify the immigration process for anyone wants to the US and work! (we should also for the eliminate the welfare state so there is no abuse)
People who are crying for immigration limits are using the same broken reasoning that caused the auto industry in the US to lose its global lead. Instead of acting in the best interests of the business and building cars in cheaper labor markets, the US auto makers are now desperate to compete with east asian manufactors. And that hurt all americans, not just the auto manufactoring jobs.
If someone can build a better car for cheaper in east asia, then the job is going to move there regardless of any laws (other than banning imports). Either a US company is going to build cars there, or a east asian company is going to sell better, cheaper cars in the US.
If someone can integrate back office systems, administrate servers, or customize systems to business requirements better & cheaper in India, than the job is going to move there no matter what laws there are or how you feel about it. Either US companies are going to do that work there, or an Indian companies that do it will get more business.
Embrace change, learn new skills that can not be exported, or go into business for yourself. Stop petitioning the government because you don't want to compete with a global labor market.
Look at the growth of America, we became a superpower because smart people from all over the world came here and worked hard! We will no longer be an economic superpower if change that success formula.

There are more important considerations than simple free market economics when it comes to immigration. Culture and national character are also important. Historically, we have balanced these issues by placing common sense limits on the number of people who can migrate to the US, to ensure that the masses of these people will be properly assimilated into US society, so that the 'snake doesnt eat the elephant' so to speak. I see no valid argument for changing course now. In fact, I see a United States that is being culturally overwhelmed by a massive influx of immigrants who do are here in sufficient numbers that they have no interest in pursuing American goals, but rather are more interested in pursuing their own.

Im all for opening our doors to immigration, and taking the best and brightest from the rest of the world who choose to come here, but I am not for opening the doors without limits. The facts are simple. H1B visas dont increase the long term productivity of the american workforce. Those workers are not moving here permanently to fill jobs that Americans cant otherwise do. They are moving here for a short period of time, to earn wages that are depressed relative to US workers, and return home. This benefits no one except for the owner of the company, who pockets the difference, and the worker himself, who expatriates his earnings back to his home country. This is not good for the average citizen, whos earnings are depressed, and is unable to benefit from an increased economic flow, because the money is flowing SOMEWHERE ELSE. to the tune of tens of billions of dollars a year.

The US government is tasked fundamentally with a few things, to establish justice, to ensure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote GENERAL welfare, and secure the blessings of liberty for OURSELVES AND OUR POSTERITY. (read: not a few company owners and workers from the rest of the world)

Roughly interpreted, our policies should benefit the majority of US citizens. Not a few already wealthy technology companies, and not half the indian and chinese software engineers of the world. If China or India can build better software, let them. US capital, and US jobs need to stay in the hands of US citizens. That is best done combining by a sane and slow immigration policy with minimal internal (as in between the states) regulation.

seapilot
04-25-2008, 12:05 AM
In fact, I see a United States that is being culturally overwhelmed by a massive influx of immigrants who do are here in sufficient numbers that they have no interest in pursuing American goals, but rather are more interested in pursuing their own.



What are american goals? I would think it is Life , Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If they dont belive in those or are communist spies or have a socialist agenda then send them home because we have too many of those here already. If they love liberty, freedom, personal responsiblity and hate corruption and welfare then welcome them.

Kalifornia
04-25-2008, 12:14 AM
What are american goals? I would think it is Life , Liberty and the pursuit of happiness. If they dont belive in those or are communist spies or have a socialist agenda then send them home because we have too many of those here already. If they love liberty, freedom, personal responsiblity and hate corruption and welfare then welcome them.

This really isnt something that you can systemically determine on a case by case scenario. 3rd world or socialist hell holes are 3rd world or socialist hell holes because their citizens put up with that. Instead of life, LIBERTY, and pursuit of happiness, much of the world is conditioned to believe in order, socialism, and tyranny. When they move here in large enough numbers so that their cultural norms arent challenged, we run the risk of turning here, into THERE.

HOLLYWOOD
04-25-2008, 12:19 AM
H1B's are a SCAM for the high Tech industry...

Much Cheaper Labor...
No full citizen rights...
H.R. (Human Relations) aka Industrial Relations has fire/deport at will... they play this card if you don't PRODUCE
there's much more...

When BILL GATES (CEO of Microsoft Corp., that has been SUED 100's of times and lost most of those for; Anti Trust/Patent Infringements, yotta yotta) LOBBIES in Washington D.C. for doubling the H1B counts, while there are 1000's of unemployed high tech workers, you know this is SLEAZE!

I guess the SCUBBAG just can't get the BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) out of his head?

He wants complete market control, even thought he'll never match up to APPLE, etc... I'm glad the EU slammed Microsoft hard.

Kalifornia
04-25-2008, 12:29 AM
H1B's are a SCAM for the high Tech industry...

Much Cheaper Labor...
No full citizen rights...
H.R. (Human Relations) aka Industrial Relations has fire/deport at will... they play this card if you don't PRODUCE
there's much more...

When BILL GATES (CEO of Microsoft Corp., that has been SUED 100's of times and lost most of those for; Anti Trust/Patent Infringements, yotta yotta) LOBBIES in Washington D.C. for doubling the H1B counts, while there are 1000's of unemployed high tech workers, you know this is SLEAZE!

I guess the SCUBBAG just can't get the BSOD (Blue Screen Of Death) out of his head?

He wants complete market control, even thought he'll never match up to APPLE, etc... I'm glad the EU slammed Microsoft hard.

Obviously I agree with you. When I decided to leave IT was when the company I worked for, who employs over 40k people worldwide laid off thousands of personnel with one hand, while opening centers overseas, and then importing Indian H1Bs who they worked 12-14 hours a day (its amazing, they literally moved around as a herd, shared expenses, etc..)...

At one point at the height of the layoffs, they were processing H1B visas so fast that they were hiring long term part time law clerks to process the applications. The best part? Many of these jobs were doing work for (directly or indirectly) for government contracts. Work paid for with US tax monies.

There is a special place in hell...

Truth Warrior
04-25-2008, 02:25 AM
Debunking the Myth of a Desperate Software Labor Shortage
http://heather.cs.ucdavis.edu/itaa.real.html

Truth Warrior
04-25-2008, 02:43 AM
About the H-1B Visa
by JJ Kuhl (May 2003 revision)

In March 2003, the American Engineering Association reported that the U.S. high-tech sector lost 560,000 jobs--a 10 percent decline--between January 2001 and December 2002. During the same period, companies sponsored more than this number of high-tech workers on H-1B and other temporary visas.

The Immigration Act of 1990 established an annual quota of 65,000 H-1B visas. The stated purpose was to bring "the best and the brightest" to American shores. This number of available visas became a fixed requirement under the World Trade Agreement.
During the late 1990s, the Information Technology Association of America (ITAA), whose members include the major US technology companies and the India outsourcing companies, lobbied both Congressional Democrats and Republicans with high campaign contributions to raise the H-1B cap to 195,000 workers annually. They succeeded once in 1998 to raise the cap temporarily to 115,000, but that wasn't enough for ITAA. They lobbied again in 2000 and the following is what happened.

On Tuesday, October 3, 2000, at 3:45 PM, a House of Representatives clerk announced the Senate passage of S. 2045. An act to amend the Immigration and Nationality Act with respect to H-1B nonimmigrant aliens (ironically named the "American Competitiveness in the Twenty-First Century Act of 2000"). Immediately following, the Speaker pro tempore announced that she would postpone further proceedings on the remaining motions and that any record votes on postponed questions would be taken on October 4th.
On the evening of October 3rd, a presidential debate between Bush and Gore was occurring and the majority of Representatives, as well as the press, were preparing for the debate. As it had been announced that no further votes would be taken, most Representatives left.

But at around 5:30 PM an email was sent announcing that an H-1B debate would begin shortly. Major supporters of the increased H-1B cap came to the House for the vote. Only approximately 40 out of the 435 members were present.

A bit prior to 6:30 PM, Cannon (R-UT) made a motion to suspend the rules and pass Senate bill S2045 (which had been passed that morning) instead of voting on the House bills, one of which (introduced by Smith (R-TX)) included worker protections and had properly gone through the Judiciary committee-however, it was known that the tech companies opposed those worker protections.

There were only two copies of the Senate bill in the House that night, in non-compliance with House Rules. Mr. Cannon had one, the Speaker had the other, although it is interesting to note that the Speaker's copy of S. 2045 that the House clerk read into the congressional record (which is the only knowledge of the bill for the other Representatives there that night) was not the bill that was ultimately enacted. The numbers entered into the record (on page H8699 under "Sec. 2. Temporary Increase in Visa Allotments") were (1) 80,000 for fiscal year 2000; (2) 87,500 for fiscal year 2001; and (3) 130,000 for fiscal year 2002.

The Speaker allotted control of 20 minutes each to Cannon and Conyers (D-MI), leaving little opportunity for debate. Rorabacher (R-CA) stated, "This legislation is nothing more than a betrayal of American working people." Owens (D-NY) said, "What we are doing here is steamrolling through a cap. We will have a cap which amounts to almost 600,000 people over a 3-year period."

Smith (R-TX) was vocal in the issues he had with the Senate bill and his upset with it being railroaded through the House that night by Cannon, Conyers and Lofgren (D-CA). In the record, Smith detailed the polls of the American public that were overwhelmingly against raising the labor importation cap. In addition, he noted, "The goals of preventing abuse of the program and providing efficient services to employers and workers are not being achieved. Evidence suggests that program noncompliance or abuse by employers may be more prevalent than under other laws."

Using various procedural moves, the GOP leaders ended the debate quickly and called for a voice vote, even though the House was nearly empty. Needless to say, the H-1B increase was passed with no vote record, and only Cox News Service reported on it.
Since the day this passed, the new annual maximum of 195,000 H-1B visas have been issued in spite of the economic downturn, and the majority of these H-1B visas were used in Information Technology professions.

The official cap is not the actual number of H-1Bs admitted to the US each year as some are exempt from the cap. As a result, during 2002 there were a total of 312,000 new H-1B visas issued, in spite of record unemployment. (The cap of 195,000 is set to expire in October 2003 and return to the 65,000 annual cap as established in the Immigration Act of 1990. ITAA has been lobbying to maintain the high cap permanently.)

The result of this labor glut is that US citizen IT workers aren't even obtaining job interviews. This is especially true for older, more experienced American IT workers. US students graduating with engineering degrees are also being shut out of the job market.
These workers, often rejected on the employer claim of "over-qualification," have state-of-the-art skills far in excess of the majority of their H-1B replacements, many of whom have little or no experience. (IT education is a recent phenomena in India, as it began about ten years ago in a Catholic school in Bangalore. INA ACT 203 [8 U.S.C. 1182] (the result of the 10/3/00 legislation) contains subsection B2 --Aliens who are members of the professions holding advanced degrees or aliens of exceptional ability. The vast majority of H-1B visa holders do not have advanced degrees and have limited skills, yet obtain their visas through this category.)

In many cases, American workers have been forced to train their H-1B replacements in order to obtain severance packages when they are laid off. Since the H-1B cap was raised in 2000, 9 out of 10 new jobs in IT have been awarded to H-1Bs. By the end of December 2001 more than 890,000 H-1B workers were employed in the United States. Add to this the 312,000 from 2002 and you have a total of 1,202,000 H-1Bs replacing US citizens and green card holders by year end 2002. Special interests have imported more than 17 million non-citizens to glut the labor market between the years 1985-2002.

In addition, there has been a recognized bias among H-1B (and L-1) hiring managers to hire only those of the same sex, age and ethnic origin as themselves, in direct non-compliance with US labor laws. Few of these activities have been reported.

As bad as this is, companies are also using L-1 visas to go beyond the H-1B cap. L-1s are intra-company transfers used to transfer aliens to work for a US firm or subsidiary of a company which already employs them outside of the US. There are over 325,000 L-1 visa holders in the US and that number is growing rapidly, as there is no cap on L-1s.

As an example of this practice, Microsoft in November 2002 announced plans to build a half-billion dollar complex in Hyderabad, India. With this new development center, Microsoft can use L-1 visas to displace further US citizen employees and will not be subject to H-1B caps. Other major companies in the US are doing the same. This is why reform is needed across all US visa types and not just for H-1B visas alone. It was through the use of these "special" visas that all of the September 11th terrorists secured admittance to the United States. There is virtually no security or monitoring of these special visa holders.

Further compounding the already gloomy economic condition, recent research from Forrester Research indicates that the percentage of offshore outsourcing for US IT budgets took a leap from 12 percent in 2000 to 28 percent in 2003. META Group, Inc. predicted that offshore outsourcing overall would grow more than 20 percent annually.

Special visas and offshore outsourcing go hand-in-hand, as many companies import H-1B and L1 workers, force US citizens to train them, then offshore the work and lay off their US staff. Also, offshore development contracts usually have a US presence of H-1Bs and L1s to perform "face-time" with their US clients and to lobby for further offshore work. This tactic has been highly successful for the major Indian offshore outsourcing companies like Infosys, Cognizant, MphasIS, Wipro, Tata (all members of ITAA) and other companies who have gotten into this profitable game.

Record State Budget Deficits Follow Guest Worker Employment
The downstream result of all this is the current massive state budget deficits that now threaten our educational system, social services, public safety and the public infrastructure. These special visas and offshore contracts are outside the federal and state tax systems, with payments transferred to offshore accounts. They usually do not pay taxes. Meanwhile, they are replacing taxpaying US citizen workers. In addition, when H-1Bs and L1s are in the US, they are using US services, paid for by US citizens.

As previously noted, there are over 1,202,000 H-1B visa holders and over 325,000 L-1 visa holders in the U.S. This does not include the H-4 and L-2 visa holders who are immediate family members of the H-1Bs and L-1s. Any fees generated by the admittance of these visa holders goes to the federal government, yet the total cost impact of services to support these visa holders falls to the states. In addition, it has been recognized that some visa holders do not leave the U.S. when their visas expire or are revoked, but remain in the U.S. as illegal aliens. Therefore, the numbers quoted above for valid visa holders are known to be less than the actual number of aliens who at one time were admitted to the U.S. under the H-1B and L-1 programs and legally or illegally have remained here. And, those valid H-1B and L-1 visa holder numbers are woefully inadequate to show the total U.S. state support impact.
When looking at the number of imported workers and offshore contracts per state, the highest numbers are in those states with the highest tax deficits. As an example, California employs by far the highest number of special visa holders at approximately 30% of all H-1B workers in the US and, at an estimated FY2004 deficit of $18-26 billion, has by far the highest tax deficit of any state.

Other states with the highest employment of special visa holders include: New York (estimated FY2004 deficit $10-12 billion), Texas (estimated FY2004 deficit of $4-7.8 billion), New Jersey (FY2004 deficit of $4 billion), and Illinois (FY2004 deficit of 3.6 billion). Rounding out the top seven states employing H-1Bs (whose H-1B numbers are more than double the states lower on the list) are Pennsylvania and Michigan with FY2004 deficits of approximately $2 billion each.

The bottom line in all of this is that when corporations import H-1B and L-1 visa holders, they are being subsidized heavily by the taxpayers of their state.

Meanwhile, the reduced US citizen spending has begun its ripple effect throughout the economy, forcing further job losses in all sectors.

Long Term US Technology Leadership In Danger

Couple the economic issues with the long term impact on the US technology sector (in which technology workers, who must constantly upgrade their skills, can no longer afford these costs) and you will find a society unraveling. Observers have noted the practice of replacing American workers with foreign visa holders and offshore outsourcing will soon erode the United States' position as a technology leader, and will bring further economic and security woes.

Although IT professionals have been the primary victims thus far, the practice of labor importation and its offshore outsourcing outcome applies across increasing numbers of job categories. Architects, designers, and Wall Street analysts are joining displaced US call center employees as offshore casualties.

US patent attorneys have been axed as their work is sent to India-a country with one of the worst intellectual property theft records in the world- and personal financial information is accessed by call centers and tax preparers in India. This trend adds the risks of personal financial information theft to the intellectual property theft threat already discussed.

In addition, wholesale worker importation is starting to occur in the teaching and nursing professions. In India H-1B "nurses training" companies have been training recruits they will sell to the US market; but they are not trained in modern medical techniques, but in American slang and "culture."

Why is this occurring?

The goal is to flood the labor market with not just cheap labor, in defiance of the "prevailing wage" stipulation of the immigration law which permits their entry in the first place (according to the INS, the median salary for an H-1B worker is 25 percent less than that for an American), but also so they will be non-unionizable labor. They are in effect indentured servants.

Under the immigration rules, H-1B workers can be fired and deported immediately if the employer is unhappy with them. They cannot seek another position at another company unless the employer agrees to it and a lengthy process is undertaken to which both companies agree.

Additionally, the mere presence of that much more labor depresses wages and sends more people into the "working poor" category of those without healthcare, security or opportunity. We are witnessing the attempted destruction of the middle class.

This recession will continue and will get deeper, reducing the size of the US middle class and ultimately resulting in a weakened America with poor education, no technology leadership and few opportunities for our children if action is not taken now.

Ask yourself: "Who is America For?" Is its purpose to support short-term corporate profits for a few very rich individuals, or for the long term viability of American citizens? Please help us end this travesty and end this recession.

http://www.h1b.info/about.php

HOLLYWOOD
04-26-2008, 10:19 AM
TRUTH WARRIOR: That pretty much says it all in facts... (nice factual post)

I would also like to point out that all the Federal and state Government "TAX BREAKS and Compensations" for 'Start-Up Companies' are paid for by American Taxpayers, not China, India, etc... taxpayers.


If you want a startup and want to use all H1B Visa holders... move your business to THEIR country!

In absolutely knowing the inside dealings of Company HR (Human Relations) departments and corporate philosophy, it's an outright insult and there should be some kind of ANTI-TRUST laws to protect workers since we have 1000's of examples of Corporate and HR abuses. HR & H1B Visas are the scum of business in America today.

Don't let anyone fool you on this subject!

Just ask the 1000's of American Engineers and High Tech workers unemployed due to the H1B Visa INFECTION.