Sealing Our Borders?

[rational thinker]

Besides abortion, I think this issue may be one of the things that's bothered me about Ron Paul. This is not to say, however, that I do not support the man to my fullest. However, I don't see the point in sealing our border down south. Why the need to do such a thing?

[Zippyjuan]

Some people look at the southern border as a kind of bath tub drain- that if you don't plug it, all the good stuff in the country will leak out.

[majinkoola]

States' rights takes care of most of it. AZ, my home state, recently enacted the crackdown on hiring of illegals, and there's been a mass exodus out of the state. And that's less preferable to getting rid of the magnets. Anyways as is it puts an unfair burden on the Southwestern states.

But philosophically it's this: Would you be OK if 150 million Chinese or European or Indian people illegally immigrated to the states during the next 20 years or so? I think most would say no, the country would cease to be America and be only an economy.

That's what's happening in a lot of the southwestern states. There's been a mass migration recently and there are many people in the country, concentrated in the same area, who consider themselves to be Mexicans living in America, not Americans who happen to be of a certain descent. I know because I grew up as friends with a lot of them. There are people exploiting the issue and demonizing these people when most are great hard-working people, which is wrong. But I, like most people, like living in America, not France, not Mexico, not Germany, not Kenya, etc. If as many people are let in as possible, combined with the white flight that will inevitably occur afterwards, the Southwest will cease to be part of America and be a de facto extension of Mexico. It's what we did to Mexico 170 years ago or so.

[princessredtights]

I think if we turned off the money tap (entitlements and freebies) as well as made it difficult to find employment ... they would pretty much self deport ...


Also, I heard someone suggest that we bring home our diplomats from Mexico as well as remove THEIR diplomats from here ...


ideas worth exploring ...

[raystone]

walling off the country doesn't mean we are isolationists or hostile to immigraton, only ILLEGAL immigtration .

ask anyone in the Southwest or California why ending illegal immigration is crucial.. their tax dollars are paying for illegal immigration healthcare, and illegals' children's eduction

[JosephTheLibertarian]

Besides abortion, I think this issue may be one of the things that's bothered me about Ron Paul. This is not to say, however, that I do not support the man to my fullest. However, I don't see the point in sealing our border down south. Why the need to do such a thing?

Agreed. How about we kick out the commies and the elites? then we can replace them with honest, hard working immigrants :D I'm actually just joking, though wouldn't that be nice? Out goes Bush, Cheney, their families, Mitt Romney, John Kerry.... on and on. useless bunch

I used to be a pro-sealing the borders leftist, but now I realize that the real enemy are the elites in this country, not the immigrants that come here to better themselves.

[majinkoola]

I don't mind if it's not a big issue for some people. What really upsets me is whenever some people act as though it's shouldn't be a big deal for me when they live in states that aren't really affected by it.

That's what's so wickedly awesome about the Constitution though. Had we stuck to that, states like AZ, CA, and Texas would have removed the magnets, while many other states would keep them and after the mass migration soon realize the magnitude of illegal immigration. This would not be a national issue.

[weslinder]

After we repeal the welfare state, I hope we go to open borders next. It served our nation well for 150 years. It wasn't until we started subsidizing it that it got to be a problem.

[AutoDas]

Can we also deport the socialists?

[Truth Warrior]

Can we also deport the socialists?
Nope, they control the Congress now, and probably soon the presidency. :p

[rational thinker]

After we repeal the welfare state, I hope we go to open borders next. It served our nation well for 150 years. It wasn't until we started subsidizing it that it got to be a problem.

Please expound.

[rational thinker]

I just find it hypocritical that we would seal the southern border (Mexico) but not the northern border (Canada).

[Kraig]

Besides abortion, I think this issue may be one of the things that's bothered me about Ron Paul. This is not to say, however, that I do not support the man to my fullest. However, I don't see the point in sealing our border down south. Why the need to do such a thing?

When/where did Ron Paul say this? and is he talking about sealing with a wall? sealing it with stricter laws? You're question seems vague, and I would also like to learn more about Dr. Paul's stance on immigration.

[Truth Warrior]

In hindsight, after the established NAU, all will become clear.

[yongrel]

Ultimately, I support totally open borders. However, while we have an entitlement system it makes sense to have a secure and sealed border. When the entitlements are gone, so can the border patrol go.

[Dr.3D]

All we want to do is keep illegal immigration from happening. If somebody wants to come into the country, let them do so through legal channels. I can't go to Mexico or Canada without first getting checked at the border to make sure I am doing so legally. It is those who come across the border without being checked that are the problem. We don't need to be giving all these people aid after they have broken the law and entered the country illegally.

[weslinder]

Please expound.

I don't know the whole story, but for Texas' southern border, immigration enforcement was sporadic at best. But it didn't matter much, because there weren't entitlements for them to fight "real Americans" for. They generally came to work on farms and ranches, some stayed and raised families, others went back south. It was always a balance, though. Immigration roughly matched the need for workers.

Starting with the New Deal, when we began paying people to not work, we started to need to judge who would be eligible for these entitlements. We decided that to be eligible to be paid not to work, you needed to be a citizen or legal resident. So immigration policy became really important.

The free market would work with immigration as well as it works in every other place that it's tried.

[truelies]

Besides abortion, I think this issue may be one of the things that's bothered me about Ron Paul. This is not to say, however, that I do not support the man to my fullest. However, I don't see the point in sealing our border down south. Why the need to do such a thing?

30 million illegals for one thing

[JosephTheLibertarian]

30 million illegals for one thing

it's only an issue because the government won't let the economy recover.

[familydog]

When/where did Ron Paul say this? and is he talking about sealing with a wall? sealing it with stricter laws? You're question seems vague, and I would also like to learn more about Dr. Paul's stance on immigration.

Ron Paul does not want to seal any border. I'm not sure why people would think this.

[Deborah K]

In hindsight, after the established NAU, all will become clear.


Bite your tongue!!!!

[Kenso]

I just find it hypocritical that we would seal the southern border (Mexico) but not the northern border (Canada).

Considering that we haven't been flooded by illegal immigrants from Canada, it's largely unnecessary, aside from any anti-terrorism concerns. Not a valid comparison between the two borders really.

Better question is why are we helping Mexico seal their southern border while leaving ours open for the most part?

[rational thinker]

Ron Paul does not want to seal any border. I'm not sure why people would think this.

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/

[rational thinker]

Ultimately, I support totally open borders. However, while we have an entitlement system it makes sense to have a secure and sealed border. When the entitlements are gone, so can the border patrol go.

So essentially are you saying that for now we should physically secure our borders until we eliminate the incentives for illegals to come in the first place, and then open the borders for all to come?

[familydog]

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/issues/border-security-and-immigration-reform/

And? "Sealing" The border implies nothing gets by. Dr. Paul is all about legal immigration. He wants to stop illegal. Big difference.

[Truth Warrior]

Bite your tongue!!!! Done! Why? Am I spoiling the surprise party? :D

[constituent]

All we want to do is keep illegal immigration from happening. If somebody wants to come into the country, let them do so through legal channels. I can't go to Mexico or Canada without first getting checked at the border to make sure I am doing so legally. It is those who come across the border without being checked that are the problem. We don't need to be giving all these people aid after they have broken the law and entered the country illegally.

at risk of prosecution... i've crossed both ways w/out ever using a street, passing a checkpoint, showing an id. it's a matter of principal for me. texas trumps the USA, and no government has the right to tell me where i can and cannot propel myself on my own two. btw dr. 3d, thanks for the ref. material (am learning, will write)!

[JosephTheLibertarian]

I don't care to seal the borders but I don't think it's smart to tell people that. I don't know what Jesse Ventura is thinking. Ever hear even Democrats talk about leaving the borders wide open, even though it's their agenda? I think with a stronger economy "illegal" immigration just wouldn't be an issue. Government policy is why our economy is this way, every economy in the world has its problem thanks to government.

[Dr.3D]

at risk of prosecution... i've crossed both ways w/out ever using a street, passing a checkpoint, showing an id. it's a matter of principal for me. texas trumps the USA, and no government has the right to tell me where i can and cannot propel myself on my own two. btw dr. 3d, thanks for the ref. material (am learning, will write)!

LOL, actually, I have also gone across the Mexican border both ways and never used a road. A horse is a wonderful form of transportation in those situations. The thing is, you don't want to get caught doing so. ;) It is not that I wished to break the law, but only to travel and there was nobody around at the time who was going to ask for my papers. It was just a simple trip of a few hours and I really didn't know where the border was at the time. It isn't like there was some kind of line on the ground telling me I was crossing the border.

[JosephTheLibertarian]

LOL, actually, I have also gone across the Mexican border both ways and never used a road. A horse is a wonderful form of transportation in those situations. The thing is, you don't want to get caught doing so. ;) It is not that I wished to break the law, but only to travel and there was nobody around at the time who was going to ask for my papers. It was just a simple trip of a few hours and I really didn't know where the border was at the time. It isn't like there was some kind of line on the ground telling me I was crossing the border.

a horse? lol. i wish we could all ride horses again

[shaunish]

I am not sure about you guys, but i am from california and there are many many people here who want nothing but CA to become part of mexico.

I am all for immigration - thats how we all (our ancestors) got here. But they did it LEGALLY.

People here hop the fence, have babies - which become citizens - at our hospitals (which we pay for, because they dont pay taxes) - and send them to our schools - which again, we pay for - and most of them never even take two moments to appreciate the real US citizens enough to even learn fluent english. Instead they support politicians that go out of their way to teach classes in SPANISH at our public schools, and to erect road signs in spanish. It is a huge drain on us economically.

That is the problem and why we need to build a good wall, and man it with our countrymen instead of having them in over seas bases.

We dont need to deport people either. We need to seal the border, naturalize those that live here, and via outreach programs get them to learn english and to respect the traditional american culture.

Yeah I know some of you will disagree, i respect that. But you also havent been to a Target store and been the only person speaking english, or gone to the mall and have been the only non-mexican in there. It is seriously more of an invasion than immigration.

[rational thinker]

^ Yeah, I agree with you.

[Truth Warrior]

a horse? lol. i wish we could all ride horses again

That'd be a whole bunch of horse manure nowadays. :D

[VaderM5]

If your for a open boarder, you might as well be for the NWO. It all becomes this "one nation, one world" thing.

[ChooseLiberty]

Flooding the US with Canadians would just be hilarious. There do seem to be a lot of them on the Comedy channel.



Considering that we haven't been flooded by illegal immigrants from Canada, it's largely unnecessary, aside from any anti-terrorism concerns. Not a valid comparison between the two borders really.

Better question is why are we helping Mexico seal their southern border while leaving ours open for the most part?

[ChooseLiberty]

It's more like an uncovered sewer drain that allows the cockroaches free ingress.

Legal immigration - Si se puede

Illegal illiterate peasants - No se puede, there are plenty


Some people look at the southern border as a kind of bath tub drain- that if you don't plug it, all the good stuff in the country will leak out.

[AutoDas]

I am not sure about you guys, but i am from california and there are many many people here who want nothing but CA to become part of mexico.

I am all for immigration - thats how we all (our ancestors) got here. But they did it LEGALLY.

People here hop the fence, have babies - which become citizens - at our hospitals (which we pay for, because they dont pay taxes) - and send them to our schools - which again, we pay for - and most of them never even take two moments to appreciate the real US citizens enough to even learn fluent english. Instead they support politicians that go out of their way to teach classes in SPANISH at our public schools, and to erect road signs in spanish. It is a huge drain on us economically.

That is the problem and why we need to build a good wall, and man it with our countrymen instead of having them in over seas bases.

We dont need to deport people either. We need to seal the border, naturalize those that live here, and via outreach programs get them to learn english and to respect the traditional american culture.

Yeah I know some of you will disagree, i respect that. But you also havent been to a Target store and been the only person speaking english, or gone to the mall and have been the only non-mexican in there. It is seriously more of an invasion than immigration.

The problem is all of the welfare. It's not open borders. This pure xenophobia cause it's pretty racist to just wall up the southern border (which the government will have to claim eminent domain over any private property down there to build fences that do nothing to solve the problem)

[hypnagogue]

If your for a open boarder, you might as well be for the NWO. It all becomes this "one nation, one world" thing. Strongly disagree. Ideally nations shouldn't be containers for people but philosophies to ascribe to. Each person should choose the kind of nation they want to live in. I think a market of nations would work to balance governments to better serve their people.

I should say though that I never fully expect that to happen. Best we can do is to allow those who wish to ascribe to our philosophy an opportunity to participate. America is not about baseball, hot dogs, apple pie, etc. It's about (or was supposed to be) Liberty. That has no cultural bias.

[rational thinker]

If your for a open boarder, you might as well be for the NWO. It all becomes this "one nation, one world" thing.

I heard Ron Paul say something very similar...