Istantly: 400,000 New Supporters/ 9 Senators/ 82 Representatives?

[orlandoinfl]

Want 400,000 New Supporters/ 9 Senators/ 82 Representatives?
http://50reasons.blogspot.com/
http://www.fairtax.org/cgi-bin/scorecard.cgi

Easy. Support the FairTax.

It was one of the driving forces of the Mike Huckabee campaign (3,913,246 votes).

Ron Paul is ON RECORD supporting the Fair Tax.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_presScorecard
http://easylink.playstream.com/fairtax/RonPaul-FairTax.wvx

[Jeremy]

We should because it's a step in the right direction as Ron Paul would say. B.J. has supported it and I think, from the campaigning part, it has helped him a little bit (maybe more in the future).... of course you don't support something just to get elected and he didn't do that obviously

[Feelgood]

I do not support the fair tax. Ron Paul does not support the fair tax.

Huckabee wanted an across the board "fair tax/flat tax rate" of 28%. Ron Paul wants a fair tax rate of 0%. If you are suggesting we go with a fair tax of 0%, I concur whole heartedly, and support your suggestion. Otherwise, not gonna get my support.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9LZyHoAPL3M

Fast forward to the 9:30 mark

[Jeremy]

I do not support the fair tax. Ron Paul does not support the fair tax.

Huckabee wanted an across the board "fair tax rate" of 28%. Ron Paul wants a fair tax rate of 0%. If you are suggesting we go with a fair tax of 0%, I concur whole heartedly, and support your suggestion. Otherwise, not gonna get my support.

Do you expect us to make a huge leap instantly? That's a heck of a lot easier said than done

[DirtMcGirt]

hmmmmm.

[crazyfingers]

Oh great...then we get to pay the federal government both an income and a sales tax. No thanks.

[Knightskye]

A Faustian bargain. New Hampshire, as well as many other states, don't have a sales tax. But in return, we wouldn't have the IRS or the Federal Income Tax...

Oh, and Ron Paul answered by saying he would vote for the Fair Tax. He wouldn't introduce legislation for it.

[tttar]

I do not support the fair tax. Ron Paul does not support the fair tax.

Huckabee wanted an across the board "fair tax rate" of 28%. Ron Paul wants a fair tax rate of 0%. If you are suggesting we go with a fair tax of 0%, I concur whole heartedly, and support your suggestion. Otherwise, not gonna get my support.

I clicked through to the video, and RP said he'd vote for it, in response to a caller asking about it specifically.

[amonasro]

No, Christianity was one of the driving forces of the Huckabee campaign. Not Fairtax.

[brandon]

It is absurd to think we can change the tax code without first changing our spending. IMO, we should cut 99.9% of govt spending ASAP. After this we cannot cut taxes. First we must pay off our debt and entitlements. This may take a couple years. Once we are finally even, then we should switch to a fair tax of 0%.

[robmpreston]

I do not support the fair tax. Ron Paul does not support the fair tax.

Huckabee wanted an across the board "fair tax/flat tax rate" of 28%. Ron Paul wants a fair tax rate of 0%. If you are suggesting we go with a fair tax of 0%, I concur whole heartedly, and support your suggestion. Otherwise, not gonna get my support.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9LZyHoAPL3M

Fast forward to the 9:30 mark

The good news is we're all free thinking people on this forum and do not have to agree with Ron Paul on everything. We should be careful not to encourage such sheep like thinking.

[tangent4ronpaul]

It is absurd to think we can change the tax code without first changing our spending. IMO, we should cut 99.9% of govt spending ASAP. After this we cannot cut taxes. First we must pay off our debt and entitlements. This may take a couple years. Once we are finally even, then we should switch to a fair tax of 0%.

+1

but I would cut taxes by 50% and pay it off over a slightly longer period so that ppl saw the advantage of what we were doing and gain support. At least that is what I'd do.

-n

[orlandoinfl]

One thing Libertarians have never understood is COMPROMISE. Another is POLITICS.

Do you really think that ANY Congress will EVER vote for a 0% Federal Tax?
The FairTax is the only comprehensive OVERHAUL of the tax structure with some Federal support in this country and is infinitely more favorable, faults and all, to current tax. But, because its not perfect, you are quick to shoot it down.

Good luck getting ANYTHING changed in this country with that attitude.

[TruthAtLast]

Great, another Fair Tax thread. Rather than repeating my entire synopsis of this plan, it is probably easier to read it here: http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showpost.php?p=1285996&postcount=19

:D

[orlandoinfl]

This thread is not about What the FairTax is, but rather WHY we should support it (New supporters, Federal Congress support, 100x better than current tax).

[TruthAtLast]

This thread is not about What the FairTax is, but rather WHY we should support it (New supporters, Federal Congress support, 100x better than current tax).

To say that it is 100x better than the current tax (which I and Ron Paul agree with) is to talk about what the FairTax is.

[orlandoinfl]

To say that it is 100x better than the current tax (which I and Ron Paul agree with) is to talk about what the FairTax is.

What is is?

Regardless, this is a great STARTING POINT to reform the tax system, albeit imperfect. Say the FairTax passes, it at least gets the public over the tyranny-security complex (security at all costs, which means neither freedom nor security).

Rome wasn't built in a day, and netheir will a free United States.

[TruthAtLast]

What is is?

Regardless, this is a great STARTING POINT to reform the tax system, albeit imperfect. Say the FairTax passes, it at least gets the public over the tyranny-security complex.

Rome wasn't built in a day, and netheir will a free United States.

exactly. Ron Paul doesn't think we should have income tax or a national sales tax, but he also knows that dismantling the tax system and government spending will need to occur in phases. The FairTax would repeal the 16th Amendment which is at the core of everything. Once that egg is shattered into a million pieces and there is some transparency in the tax code, it makes it much more difficult for the elitists to put it back together again. But it also then gives us the platform to lower the consumption tax as spending is also reduced until we have effectively accomplished our original goals.

[Conza88]

Want 400,000 New Supporters/ 9 Senators/ 82 Representatives?
http://50reasons.blogspot.com/
http://www.fairtax.org/cgi-bin/scorecard.cgi


Easy. Tell them we support NO FEDERAL RESERVE, NO IRS, minimal tax as possible.

[orlandoinfl]

Easy. Tell them we support NO FEDERAL RESERVE, NO IRS, minimal tax as possible.

Tried that, didn't we? Labeled "Kooks" by the MSM and the general population. You want to take the same stance as the Losertarians and hit your head against the wall all the time?

Just as the 2 Parties have taken the Constitution and diluted it, we will take their Federal Reserve and IRS and dilute it with things such as Gold alternate currency and FairTax.

Don't destroy things, just dilute them to the point where they no longer matter. It's nasty, but it works beautifully.

[Conza88]

Tried that, didn't we? Labeled "Kooks" by the MSM and the general population. You want to take the same stance as the Losertarians and hit your head against the wall all the time?

Just as the 2 Parties have taken the Constitution and diluted it, we will take their Federal Reserve and IRS and dilute it with things such as Gold alternate currency and FairTax.

Don't destroy things, just dilute them to the point where they no longer matter. It's nasty, but it works beautifully.

Sorry I don't sell out on my principles. Neither does Ron Paul.

[smartguy911]

what's the diff between fair tax and regular tax? fair tax is only sales tax right? we are in wholesale business and if our customers are selling their product with 28% sales tax, they will go out of business. In our wholesale business, we are fighting over 10 cents, 5 cents and a tax of $2.80 on a $10 product will ruin our business because I Know our customers will not be able to sell anything. Just the idea of 28% will scare people away. Try telling a person that they are paying $2.80 tax on $10 product.

[TruthAtLast]

what's the diff between fair tax and regular tax? fair tax is only sales tax right? we are in wholesale business and if our customers are selling their product with 28% sales tax, they will go out of business. In our wholesale business, we are fighting over 10 cents, 5 cents and a tax of $2.80 on a $10 product will ruin our business because I Know our customers will not be able to sell anything. Just the idea of 28% will scare people away. Try telling a person that they are paying $2.80 tax on $10 product.

I have no problem paying $2.80 on a $10 product if it means I get to keep the $54,000 I pay in income taxes each year, as well as no estate tax, and no taxes in dividends. I have no problem paying $2.80 on a $10 product if I know that every illegal alien that gets paid under the table right now or every tax evader that relies on ME to pick up the tab is also paying the same $2.80 for the same $10 product.

Businesses also don't have to pay the payroll tax and those savings filter down to the products they sell.

[orlandoinfl]

Sorry I don't sell out on my principles. Neither does Ron Paul.

Not a problem. You see things A and Z, I see the B,C,D,E....

Just please recognize that although people will work towards getting to Z, conditions B,C,etc are necessary intermediaries.

[sratiug]

I have no problem paying $2.80 on a $10 product if it means I get to keep the $54,000 I pay in income taxes each year, as well as no estate tax, and no taxes in dividends. I have no problem paying $2.80 on a $10 product if I know that every illegal alien that gets paid under the table right now or every tax evader that relies on ME to pick up the tab is also paying the same $2.80 for the same $10 product.

Businesses also don't have to pay the payroll tax and those savings filter down to the products they sell.

But will the government pay it? Will churches pay it? Will military contractors pay it? Will it be on food? Will it be on energy? Will it be on houses and cars or will there be 8 million exemptions like now? Will you pay it on services?

If you think the underground economy is big now, just wait. The "fair" tax will never be any more fair than the current tax. We'll have federal revenuers running wild.

Why would it not be smarter to have an across the board tariff? With over a trillion dollars in yearly imports, a 25% "flat" import tax would yield over 250 billion dollars a year in revenue and encourage american manufacturing and hiring of americans.

[speciallyblend]

Screw a fair tax, I PERFER A NO TAX, fair tax is a joke, give me 10 bucks so i can give it to you and with a fair tax take it back.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

Hucakbee supporters don't want any taxes any more than we do, the driving force behind why they are Huckabee supporters is Christianity and continuing the Holy War on Terror.

This is not even an issue worth debating unless RP instigates it.

[voytechs]

Ron Paul is ON RECORD supporting the Fair Tax.[/SIZE]
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_presScorecard
http://easylink.playstream.com/fairtax/RonPaul-FairTax.wvx

Absolutely right, on Jay Leno he said he supports the fair-tax of 0%. I concur.

[DeadtoSin]

Hucakbee supporters don't want any taxes any more than we do, the driving force behind why they are Huckabee supporters is Christianity and continuing the Holy War on Terror.

This is not even an issue worth debating unless RP instigates it.

No it isn't. I'm friends with a lot of Huckabee supporters. Guys, you see this? This is why this movement is doing so crappy lately. We can't work together with anyone for any reason. Other candidates apparently only completely care about the war, and we couldn't compromise our principles by working with them to accomplish any good. You know what guys? You don't have to compromise your principles by working with someone, just don't support things you don't support. Work with them on the other stuff.

Man, you and Conza are pieces of work thats for sure.

[Gadsden Flag]

The wierd thing is, the fair tax is supported by a lot of libertarian minded people.

I don't know why you guys have to hate it just because Huckabee supports it and RP doesn't. Sheesh!

[FrankRep]

It's a step in the right direction.

[amy31416]

All I can say about the "fair" tax is that I'd prefer it to the current system. At least then barter and providing for yourself as you see fit are not taxed and we have more control.

Perhaps it's a good stepping stone to getting rid of the IRS?

[DeadtoSin]

Sometimes I wonder if there are a greater percentage of Ron Paul supporters who are sheep for his message than there are sheep for others.

[Peace&Freedom]

Paul tolerates the idea of a fair tax and said he would vote for it if comes up for a clean vote, but he prefers the outright end of the income tax. END it, don't mend it, because unless you eliminate it, the pro-tax forces will fight on to 'restore' things just as we've seen in the spending cut wars. The tax was flattened during the second Reagan term in exchange for closing loopholes, only to see the lobbies and Democrats go to work to bump the rates back up years latter, without bringing back the loopholes. The same thing will likely happen to the fair tax, and after an immense battle to enact it there will be little energy left to pursue further tax reduction or elimination.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

No it isn't. I'm friends with a lot of Huckabee supporters. Guys, you see this? This is why this movement is doing so crappy lately. We can't work together with anyone for any reason. Other candidates apparently only completely care about the war, and we couldn't compromise our principles by working with them to accomplish any good. You know what guys? You don't have to compromise your principles by working with someone, just don't support things you don't support. Work with them on the other stuff.

Man, you and Conza are pieces of work thats for sure.

If Ron Paul jumps on the bandwagon and becomes a big proponent of Huckabee's Fair Tax then I'm all over it. But unless he changes his position you are wasting your time. Do you actually think if a few dozen people on RPF become big Fair Tax proponents that RP is going to pick it up and run with it? Unless he starts talking about it as one of his big platforms you can promote it all you want but it won't do any good. If you're trying to convert Huckabee supporters and think you can do it by mentioning that RP said he would vote in favor of a Fair Tax replacing the IRS and the Income Tax then by all means do it. How has it worked so far with all of your Huckabee-supporting friends?

Anyone who thinks that Ron Paul is going to somehow magically become President if he changes his position and becomes a big Fair Tax proponent is delusional.

[Conza88]

Not a problem. You see things A and Z, I see the B,C,D,E....

Just please recognize that although people will work towards getting to Z, conditions B,C,etc are necessary intermediaries.

I see things as A...Z (...) = representing all the letters in between. I've seen the end game, and the result we should be aiming at. I see the bigger picture. You're still stuck on C.


The wierd thing is, the fair tax is supported by a lot of libertarian minded people.

I don't know why you guys have to hate it just because Huckabee supports it and RP doesn't. Sheesh!

Why fight for not getting screwed at all, when you can fight for getting screwed just a little less! :rolleyes:

[ItsTime]

Please tell me how the Fair Tax will not leave us with a sales tax AND an income tax?

[constituent]

The good news is we're all free thinking people on this forum and do not have to agree with Ron Paul on everything. We should be careful not to encourage such sheep like thinking.

i could not agree w/ this more.

and enough of the orwellian names given to policies that people advocate for

"fair" tax, give me a fuggin' break.

[Danke]

"The Willingness Of Some People To Trade Liberty For Convenience Is Without Limit



An astonishing number of Americans continue to call for the enactment of a "national sales tax" (such as the so-called 'Fair Tax'). These poor folks have let themselves be suborned into thus endorsing the notion that the federal government has a legitimate claim on an unlimited portion of every American's personal property-- enforceable by one means or another-- in exchange for nothing more than being spared getting a headache filling out a bunch of tax forms each year (or going to the trouble to learn the truth about the law). (http://www.losthorizons.com/Cracking_the_Code.htm)



Understand, the sole "benefit" pitched by boosters of this shell-game "reform" is that the individual paperwork burden would diminish. Everyone would still have just as much of their property taken. What this is really all about is distracting Americans from consideration of the real issue-- that is, who actually has a lawful claim to all that money-- by dangling a minor symptomatic relief in front of them. It is with these folks in mind that I offer the following comments...



Regarding Tax "Reform"


"Every reform is only a mask under cover of which a more terrible reform, which dares not yet name itself, advances."
-R. W. Emerson



Now that the current income tax structure has been deciphered and revealed to be benign in 'Cracking the Code- The Fascinating Truth About Taxation In America', it falls to all of us to actively and strenuously resist any attempt by the tax beneficiary crowd to replace that structure-- which they are coming to recognize as fatally compromised, for their purposes-- with an alternative, such as a national sales tax or value-added tax. Such alternatives-- all of which would seek to maintain spending at or near current levels-- would quickly be riddled with exceptions, special-interest pay-offs and so forth; as well as the subsidies and associated means-testing necessary to forestall what would otherwise be an intolerable burden for the poor. They would quickly become indistinguishable from the current regime in complexity, bureaucracy, and injustice. More importantly, depending upon how such an alternative was instituted, we might never be rid of it.


After all, a broad-based federal sales tax or VAT-- which would be functionally involuntary in nature (thus, direct), and would lack any effective connection between the federal government and the object of the tax as well-- is just as much prohibited by Article 1, Section 9 of the Constitution as is the general tax on receipts that most Americans misunderstand the income tax to be, and thus would be unconstitutional without an amendment. However, with the income tax having been broadly misunderstood-- and thus obnoxiously misapplied-- for so long that many Americans have reached an, "Anything but this!" attitude, there is every danger that the general public could take the position that if a Constitutional amendment would rid us of that current regime, then so be it.


Should that happen, not only would we abandon an existing statutory structure which, as actually written, is dramatically better than even the wildest promises made by those who tout "reform", but the evils we suffer under today-- by virtue of mere ignorance, something easily remedied-- will become evils we suffer from tomorrow with no remedy available at all. Thus, calls for such reforms really amount to efforts to better secure the benefits enjoyed by clients of the state under the current mis-administration of the existing law.





Some will argue that, since the income tax-- if administered as actually provided for in the law-- can't bring in nearly as much revenue as is delivered to government under the current reign of misunderstanding, a replacement such as one of those touted by the "reformers" is unavoidable, whatever its faults. This is simply not true.



Even if current levels of spending are deemed desirable or necessary, the Constitution has always provided perfectly adequate methods by which the money can be raised. There is no limit to the size of a lawful apportioned direct tax-- and such a tax can be sought as often as circumstances require. A revenue tariff is also available, and capable of bringing in very large amounts indefinitely. These are the methods provided for by the founders, and they are quite sufficient. They also happen to be far more accountable and politically rigorous than the open spigot of money into the federal coffers that the mis-administered income tax has become, and thus far less desirable to the political class.



In fact, one of the most pernicious political-accountability-evasion aspects of the mis-administered "income" tax enjoyed by the state under the current regime-- the concealment of the true tax burden by means of the "withholding" system-- would be exacerbated enormously by a national sales tax, or VAT. "Withholding" arranges things so that most Americans never really perceive the total amount being extracted from them by the state. Instead, most quickly become unconscious of the degree by which their earnings are incrementally diminished over the course of each year (precisely as was intended by the system's designers), and actually celebrate the return of a pittance each spring in the form of a "refund". Under a sales or VAT tax, the amount extracted is broken into vastly smaller incremental hemorrhages guaranteed to quickly slip under the radar screen and remain there.





One of the awkward realities of life is that the freedom of the people, and the convenience of the state, are generally mutually exclusive. We can provide for only one or the other. I know which one I choose, and with no second thoughts at all, even if inconveniencing the state should occasionally prove to inconvenience me as well. I have the benefit of the trenchant words of Thomas Jefferson to help me keep things in perspective: "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it."



I hope that everyone will join me in vigorously oppose all efforts at "tax reform", and instead, dedicate themselves to the support of simple, lawful taxation, as provided for in the Constitution.

Peter E. Hendrickson"

[TastyWheat]

I think Ron was trying to get us excited with the idea of no IRS and no income taxes. Even with the right President and the right Congress we still have too many obligations (social security, medicare, debt) to eliminate the income tax and replace it with nothing. It may have been his plan to implement the FairTax from the start. Simplified or not, the FairTax is still better than the income tax. Once we get down to a 1% national sales tax we can talk about eliminating it.

Still, if the Congress won't pass it the President can't sign it. FairTax advocates should be looking for more supportive representatives.

[crazyfingers]

Please tell me how the Fair Tax will not leave us with a sales tax AND an income tax?

QFT.

Let's not be naive here. Any proposal for the "Fair Tax" should be entirely contingent on the repeal of the 16th amendment.

[luke-gr]

QFT.

Let's not be naive here. Any proposal for the "Fair Tax" should be entirely contingent on the repeal of the 16th amendment.

Yep. In speaking of the fair tax, we are assuming it would REPLACE the income tax. I do see quite a few positive things with the "fair tax". It would somewhat encourage savings. People would have all their money to begin with. Unfortunately, the American public has become numbed to the money being removed from their paycheck before receiving it. With a "fair tax", we could somewhat determine how much taxes we would pay by determining what we buy or do not. I believe the idea behind taxation was to come from luxury items not from our necessities and the "fair tax" bucks that ideal.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I think the biggest point you are overlooking is this. We all have our biggest issues that we think should the first order of business. For me, it's eliminating the Fed. I feel it is the root under the surface. This is actually something Ron Paul aggressively supports. The Fair Tax is something he has said he would vote for while holding his nose. Unless becoming big Fair Tax proponents is something RP himself says we should do, you'll never get enough Ron Paul supporters on your bandwagon to attempt what you are envisioning. And even then, most Huckabee supporters still wouldn't support Ron Paul as long as they believe dirty, evil Muslims from a foreign country hate them because they're "free".

[Danke]

QFT.

Let's not be naive here. Any proposal for the "Fair Tax" should be entirely contingent on the repeal of the 16th amendment.


"[T]he Sixteenth Amendment conferred no new power of taxation..."

Stanton v. Baltic Mining Co., 240 U.S. 103, 112 (1916).

[Broadlighter]

What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

If enacting the fair tax results in eliminating the IRS, that removes the bureaucratic and enforcement structure that's become so burdensome to everyone. It's a step in the right direction and may whet the public appetite for further government downsizing.

The fair tax may not go far enough, but sometimes we have to secure our freedom objectives in steps. The order in which those steps are taken may not be what we think they should be, but we should take what we can get, then immediately push for the next step.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

What comes first, the chicken or the egg?

If enacting the fair tax results in eliminating the IRS, that removes the bureaucratic and enforcement structure that's become so burdensome to everyone. It's a step in the right direction and may whet the public appetite for further government downsizing.

The fair tax may not go far enough, but sometimes we have to secure our freedom objectives in steps. The order in which those steps are taken may not be what we think they should be, but we should take what we can get, then immediately push for the next step.

I've had to deal with the Texas Comptrollers office on sales tax issues before and they aren't much better than the IRS. At the federal level it would just be another bureaucratic nightmare with the money collected going into the same pockets as it does now.

[TruthAtLast]

Screw a fair tax, I PERFER A NO TAX, fair tax is a joke, give me 10 bucks so i can give it to you and with a fair tax take it back.

well clearly everyone would prefer no tax. But it isn't so black and white. Even if Ron Paul somehow became president he would NOT and COULD NOT get rid on our tax system. It would have to happen over time. This is why Ron Paul supports the Fair Tax, not because he thinks it is the best solution but because it is a means to an end. It destroys the 16th amendment. It is much easier to go from the FairTax to no tax than from the current tax to no tax.

[mczerone]

Who are we kidding here? We don't need the "FairTax" as part of this movement, we need the "Happy Fun Time Tax Relief Plan".

The Fair Tax, despite its name, is one of the most asinine ideas in wealth redistribution, taking from Everyone to give to the bottom half.

Taxes, needed to support the administration of a central government and national defense and infrastructure, need a source. This source is the true issue, whether the money is taken out when entering a home or buying groceries is trivial. We need to insure that tax Rates are based on profit of a unit. Not income or costs, but if a business brings in more assets than it loses, only then are taxes exacted. And Marginal Tax Rates need then to be bounded so that it is always beneficial for the actor to earn more.

[TruthAtLast]

Please tell me how the Fair Tax will not leave us with a sales tax AND an income tax?

As with all things there is no guarantee, but it makes it very very difficult. There are several things that Ron Paul likes about the FairTax even though it doesn't completely get us to our goal. By eliminating the IRS and the 16th Amendment it destroys the crutch that the income tax is built on. Yes, they can try to pass another Amendment and form another IRS but that isn't unlike what they can do now with ANY law. The FairTax is much more transparent which allows the People to hold the Government much more accountable.

I think Ron figures that you will never have NO TAX (the end goal) unless you can first repeal the 16th Amendment and abolish the IRS. Once that is done, then the next step would be to cut spending and liabilities to a point where the consumption tax wouldn't be needed either.

[TruthAtLast]

QFT.

Let's not be naive here. Any proposal for the "Fair Tax" should be entirely contingent on the repeal of the 16th amendment.

+1

[Broadlighter]

I've had to deal with the Texas Comptrollers office on sales tax issues before and they aren't much better than the IRS. At the federal level it would just be another bureaucratic nightmare with the money collected going into the same pockets as it does now.

I'm not saying I like the fair tax, either or that taking it in steps is going to make it easier for everyone, but think of the taste of freedom people are going to enjoy. No more 1040s, no more withholdings, no more software to purchase and re-purchase every year, no more tax preparers, saving receipts, tax audits and so on. That may not be completely true for your particular business, but it will make a huge difference for many more people who don't own businesses

Freedom needs to gain traction and momentum. The fair tax is not the final goal, but it can be a step toward tax freedom if we take advantage of the opportunities if affords us.

What are the alternatives? One way or another they involve forcing an agenda on too many people who are too brainwashed to understand what freedom is.

Let 'em give us an inch, so we can take a mile.

[orlandoinfl]

FairTax would eliminate ALL taxes and leave you with ONE NUMBER, 23% sales tax. After that, it would be fairly easy to start chopping this down as we transition to a non-welfare state. Going from current tax structure to 0% is not only never going to happen politically, its not even a just thing to do given that so many people are living off welfare.

Secondly, read the FairTax, Sec.101 Income taxes repealed, Sec.102 Payroll taxes repealed, Sec.103 Estate and gift taxes repealed.

FairTax ain't pretty, ain't ideal, but its the only tax overhaul program that has public (at least 400,000), House (82 Representatives), Senate (9 Senators) support.

[JMann]

Do you expect us to make a huge leap instantly? That's a heck of a lot easier said than done

Yes he does and this is the very reason people like Paul or Bobar have trouble attracted reasonable supporters.

[JMann]

One thing Libertarians have never understood is COMPROMISE. Another is POLITICS.

Do you really think that ANY Congress will EVER vote for a 0% Federal Tax?
The FairTax is the only comprehensive OVERHAUL of the tax structure with some Federal support in this country and is infinitely more favorable, faults and all, to current tax. But, because its not perfect, you are quick to shoot it down.

Good luck getting ANYTHING changed in this country with that attitude.

Yes, they do thus the reason they are happy being thinkers instead of achievers.

[JMann]

Sorry I don't sell out on my principles. Neither does Ron Paul.

And that got you?

[Danke]

The current yearly income tax revenue, according to Ron Paul, is equal to the increase in spending since 2000.

So why is it so crazy to just eliminate it, can't we live with the spending we had in 2000? Or at least sell that to people as easily as it is selling the pro "Fair Tax" arguments?

[CzargwaR]

McCain made a great point yesterday in his speech, that is to introduce a new simpler (flat/fair I don't know) tax system while the old one is still in place. This way people will be able to choose the system in which they want to pay their taxes. Some would be more hurt by the new tax system than helped. People will choose the system that minimizes their cost of filing taxes (time, accountants etc) and one that minimizes their taxes, this would be an efficient way of introducing any new tax system.

Yes cutting spending is the priority, but Austrian economists fail to distinguish between an efficient tax system and one that's not (at least that's the impression I got from reading their opposition to flat/fair tax system) . With two systems , there will be competition and eventually the better one will win. This is just like Ron Paul declaring gold/silver as competing currency, and superior one wins in the end. I do think Paul would vote for this.

BTW I still hate MCCain

[Eric21ND]

I think it would be a disaster. 28% on every dollar, not including other state, local, etc taxes, and you're going to have a tax well over 30%.

$30,000 car = at least $9,000 in taxes

$250,000 home = $75,000 in taxes

[ItsTime]

Stop making sense :D


I think it would be a disaster. 28% on every dollar, not including other state, local, etc taxes, and you're going to have a tax well over 30%.

$30,000 car = at least $9,000 in taxes

$250,000 home = $75,000 in taxes

[ItsTime]

How would it repeal the 16th amendment?



FairTax would eliminate ALL taxes and leave you with ONE NUMBER, 23% sales tax. After that, it would be fairly easy to start chopping this down as we transition to a non-welfare state. Going from current tax structure to 0% is not only never going to happen politically, its not even a just thing to do given that so many people are living off welfare.

Secondly, read the FairTax, Sec.101 Income taxes repealed, Sec.102 Payroll taxes repealed, Sec.103 Estate and gift taxes repealed.

FairTax ain't pretty, ain't ideal, but its the only tax overhaul program that has public (at least 400,000), House (82 Representatives), Senate (9 Senators) support.

[Eric21ND]

Another thing, say bye bye to tourism dollars and also Canadians crossing over to buy American goods/services.

[mczerone]

I think it would be a disaster. 28% on every dollar, not including other state, local, etc taxes, and you're going to have a tax well over 30%.

$30,000 car = at least $9,000 in taxes

$250,000 home = $75,000 in taxes

From estimates and model's I've seen, the tax rate of an implemented FairTax plan would likely fluctuate closer to 45% to make up for the fact that this tax is disproportionately felt by those with lower incomes, especially in high cost-of-living urban areas. Welfare would be alive and well indefinately.

[Barney]

Want instant backing of the majority of both houses? Support funding of Iraq war, back the Patriot Act, the Military Commissions Act, HR1955, Kyle-Lieberman,...

Either you have little understanding of the man or the movement, or you're just here to sell your agenda irrespective of the purpose of this forum.


Want 400,000 New Supporters/ 9 Senators/ 82 Representatives?
http://50reasons.blogspot.com/
http://www.fairtax.org/cgi-bin/scorecard.cgi

Easy. Support the FairTax.

It was one of the driving forces of the Mike Huckabee campaign (3,913,246 votes).

Ron Paul is ON RECORD supporting the Fair Tax.
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer?pagename=news_presScorecard
http://easylink.playstream.com/fairtax/RonPaul-FairTax.wvx

[JoshLowry]

Supporting fair slavery is not a good idea.

[HOLLYWOOD]

I do not support the fair tax. Ron Paul does not support the fair tax.

Huckabee wanted an across the board "fair tax/flat tax rate" of 28%. Ron Paul wants a fair tax rate of 0%. If you are suggesting we go with a fair tax of 0%, I concur whole heartedly, and support your suggestion. Otherwise, not gonna get my support.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=9LZyHoAPL3M

Fast forward to the 9:30 mark

It's 23% not 28% Fair Tax level

here's a nice informative writeup on "The Fair Tax" initiative:

http://volokh.com/posts/1198966908.shtml (http://volokh.com/posts/1198966908.shtml)

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I'm not saying I like the fair tax, either or that taking it in steps is going to make it easier for everyone, but think of the taste of freedom people are going to enjoy. No more 1040s, no more withholdings, no more software to purchase and re-purchase every year, no more tax preparers, saving receipts, tax audits and so on. That may not be completely true for your particular business, but it will make a huge difference for many more people who don't own businesses

Freedom needs to gain traction and momentum. The fair tax is not the final goal, but it can be a step toward tax freedom if we take advantage of the opportunities if affords us.

What are the alternatives? One way or another they involve forcing an agenda on too many people who are too brainwashed to understand what freedom is.

Let 'em give us an inch, so we can take a mile.

I totally understand what you're saying, but unless Ron Paul advocates this approach himself it's not going to become a focus of the rEVOLution. End of story.

[orlandoinfl]

I totally understand what you're saying, but unless Ron Paul advocates this approach himself it's not going to become a focus of the rEVOLution. End of story.

I hear BAAAAAAhh, BAAAAAAhh...

If Ron Paul jumped off a bridge, would you?

[orlandoinfl]

It seems I made the mistake of thinking that people actually understood the FairTax. I guess I'll have to wait until you actually read and learn about it.

I'll give you a quick summary:
1) Everything you buy has an embedded tax of 23%, roughly.
2) Fair tax eliminates all Federal taxes and replaces them with a national 23% sales tax.
3) The extra revenue would come from drug dealers, prostitutes, etc. who purchase retail but don't file taxes.
4) No income tax, no payroll tax, no estate tax.
5) Lower income families receive prebate checks that would cover their essential items.
6) -23% Embedded tax, +23% Federal tax = Prices stay the same. (they actually drop, but thats a little too advanced for some of you.)
7) The only national tax figure to target for further reduction is this single figure of 23%. People will quickly realize that they don't want 23% and will call for 20%, then 18%, etc.

If you are still confused, you should no longer use the internet and stay away from politics as much as possible.

[Joseph Hart]

Stay on principles, not on tactic.

[garrettwombat]

to bad ron paul isnt a hypocrite and neither am i...

fair my ass.

[jkm1864]

fair tax is awesome and btw its the only unconstitutional tax out there. I mean social security is so unconstitutional especially the old farts that only payed in 10 years and got it since 60. The only way a tax can be levied is if its given to everyone in equal portion. Hell I look forward to the day that welfare pukes have to get a job and pay taxes like the rest of us. Oh I don't believe in the rebate on the fair tax I think it should be 24% or 25% with nothing back. I am so fed up with the poor getting a free ride in this country.

[Eric21ND]

fair tax is awesome and btw its the only unconstitutional tax out there. I mean social security is so unconstitutional especially the old farts that only payed in 10 years and got it since 60. The only way a tax can be levied is if its given to everyone in equal portion. Hell I look forward to the day that welfare pukes have to get a job and pay taxes like the rest of us. Oh I don't believe in the rebate on the fair tax I think it should be 24% or 25% with nothing back. I am so fed up with the poor getting a free ride in this country.
You're all heart :rolleyes:

[maiki]

I am not in favor of VATs/Sales taxes. This is why:

year 1: 0% income tax 28% Sales Tax
year 4: 1% income tax 28% Sales tax (things are going a bit overbudget)
year 5: 1/10/30% income tax 28% sales tax (this is when a democrat comes into office)
year 12: 10/28/35% income tax 28% sales tax (see how this goes?)

I'd rather not set the precedent for a different sort of tax.... Mmm no thanks. I wouldn't mind a flatter or simpler tax code if they keep the income tax, but don't start adding NEW federal taxes..

[ItsTime]

You forgot number 8 and 9

8) You must create an alternate reality for companies to lower their prices because the CEOs will actually be paying MORE taxes.
9) Read post above mine



It seems I made the mistake of thinking that people actually understood the FairTax. I guess I'll have to wait until you actually read and learn about it.

I'll give you a quick summary:
1) Everything you buy has an embedded tax of 23%, roughly.
2) Fair tax eliminates all Federal taxes and replaces them with a national 23% sales tax.
3) The extra revenue would come from drug dealers, prostitutes, etc. who purchase retail but don't file taxes.
4) No income tax, no payroll tax, no estate tax.
5) Lower income families receive prebate checks that would cover their essential items.
6) -23% Embedded tax, +23% Federal tax = Prices stay the same. (they actually drop, but thats a little too advanced for some of you.)
7) The only national tax figure to target for further reduction is this single figure of 23%. People will quickly realize that they don't want 23% and will call for 20%, then 18%, etc.

If you are still confused, you should no longer use the internet and stay away from politics as much as possible.

[DeadtoSin]

If Ron Paul jumps on the bandwagon and becomes a big proponent of Huckabee's Fair Tax then I'm all over it. But unless he changes his position you are wasting your time. Do you actually think if a few dozen people on RPF become big Fair Tax proponents that RP is going to pick it up and run with it? Unless he starts talking about it as one of his big platforms you can promote it all you want but it won't do any good. If you're trying to convert Huckabee supporters and think you can do it by mentioning that RP said he would vote in favor of a Fair Tax replacing the IRS and the Income Tax then by all means do it. How has it worked so far with all of your Huckabee-supporting friends?

Anyone who thinks that Ron Paul is going to somehow magically become President if he changes his position and becomes a big Fair Tax proponent is delusional.

Yes, because thats what I said. I said that Ron Paul is going to win if he supports Fair Tax, because thats what Huckabee did and he is obviously the frontrunner of the GOP race now.

Right?

Oh..wait..

[Knightskye]

Absolutely right, on Jay Leno he said he supports the fair-tax of 0%. I concur.

Well, on Jay Leno (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9LZyHoAPL3M), Paul said, "I lean toward a flat tax, but I want to make it real flat, like zero."

And the link you quoted leads to a recording of Ron Paul saying he'd VOTE FOR the FairTax. He doesn't want to introduce legislation for it.

[dirknb@hotmail.com]

I hear BAAAAAAhh, BAAAAAAhh...

If Ron Paul jumped off a bridge, would you?

Knock yourself out with your Fair Tax campaign. Let us know how it turns out for you.