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View Full Version : Should public schools be armed?




AutoDas
04-15-2008, 02:31 PM
I don't think they should be. All of the shootings have taken place in public schools. You already forfeit your right of freedom of religion, speech, peacefully assemble, and petition in public schools and there's no way they'd allow students to carry protection. When the students move to colleges that aren't paid by the government then they suddenly found have been known to be very liberal, but then they come out of those schools thinking "liberal=democrat."

tod evans
04-15-2008, 02:33 PM
teachers, janitors, office staff or just the coaches?....
kinda hard to figure out what you`re asking here:confused:

LittleLightShining
04-15-2008, 02:45 PM
We had 2 policemen on duty at my high school in CT (I graduated in 92). At the time there were about 1200 students. Everyone called the cops by their first names and they knew who everyone was. Overall it was a good thing. I would definitely not be opposed to it elsewhere.

pcosmar
04-15-2008, 02:49 PM
At around 14 or 15, I took a hunter safety course at my high school. It was required in this state to get a hunting license.
I was also on the school rifle team and ROTC. We had a range in the school basement.
Students commonly exchanged ammo, and sometimes traded guns.
Many of the cars in the parking lot had firearms in them.
This was an area High School with over 2000 students.
No one was ever shot.
Fights did not involve firearms.

It was not till they were banned that they became a problem.

Dequeant
04-15-2008, 03:42 PM
I remember when our high school came down and said that rifle and shotguns were no longer allowed in our vehicles on school grounds...............and what a big ruckus that caused. Shortly after the school shootings followed.

CountryboyRonPaul
04-15-2008, 03:51 PM
A few years ago at my little Cousin's High School some kid said he was bringing a gun to school for some sort of "gang" fight.

The cop's came, brought the dogs to find the gun, instead they found a half ounce of pot in my Cousin's truck.

Expelled him from school, however, the kid that said he was gonna shoot somebody else didn't get in trouble. Get this, now the kid gets paid for by the state to go to college.

My Cousin who had a 3.5 GPA and was getting tuition lost his tuition because of the charges, and works two jobs now.


I don't know what relevance this has to your question... But, I think it's a good example of Government ineptitude.

JK/SEA
04-15-2008, 04:00 PM
I think there should be at least 2 un-named and authorized persons in all public schools to have a handgun at all times. These people would only be known by the principal, and law enforcement.

Comment on freedom of religion in public schools. Why can't kids pray or do their thing at recess somewhere? why is this such a big deal? saying prayers at the start of school would be a problem. It would dis-respect the kids who don't agree with organized religion. I for one do not like or accept religion being crammed down my throat every where i go. Should i hollar out HAIL SATAN! after everyone is done praying before a football game or NASCAR race? Keep your religious feelings to yourself whenever possible. Especially out in public.

John of Des Moines
04-15-2008, 05:26 PM
At around 14 or 15, I took a hunter safety course at my high school. It was required in this state to get a hunting license.
I was also on the school rifle team and ROTC. We had a range in the school basement.
Students commonly exchanged ammo, and sometimes traded guns.
Many of the cars in the parking lot had firearms in them.
This was an area High School with over 2000 students.
No one was ever shot.
Fights did not involve firearms.

It was not till they were banned that they became a problem.

Didn't take a hunter's safety course but guns were not usual 30 years ago were when I was in hs. But school shootings did became a problem after the drug companies started to dope up the kids and the video industry pumped out shoot-'em up and kill 'em videos. Eisenhower's farewell address comes to mind....

nate895
04-15-2008, 06:21 PM
I don't believe in public schools, period.

JK/SEA
04-15-2008, 07:16 PM
I don't believe in public schools, period.

How should people get educated then?

just curious.

nate895
04-15-2008, 07:17 PM
How should people get educated then?

just curious.

Vouchers. I go to public school on a daily basis, and it is garbage, I learn more on RPForums than there.

John of Des Moines
04-15-2008, 07:45 PM
Vouchers. I go to public school on a daily basis, and it is garbage, I learn more on RPForums than there.

Sadly, that's scary.

Kraig
04-16-2008, 05:39 PM
How should people get educated then?

just curious.

Pay for it? Go to a library?

Why should I be taxed to pay for someone else's education?

(not to mention our public schools as a whole are a joke)

forsmant
04-16-2008, 05:42 PM
How should people get educated then?

just curious.

By reading and experience.

pcosmar
04-16-2008, 06:07 PM
To get back to the topic,

Should public schools be armed?
It is the wrong question, since a building, or system can't be armed. and underage children are already disarmed by law.
The question should be should citizens be disarmed (teachers, employees,parents) just because they are in a building used for education?
I would say no.

1000-points-of-fright
04-16-2008, 08:02 PM
All of the shootings have taken place in public schools.

That's because the shooters know that nobody will be shooting back. How many crazy shooters have walked into a police station or army base?

kyleAF
04-16-2008, 09:59 PM
You sure like to stir things up, don't you AutoDas??

First: "The gold standard sucks. Discuss"

Now: "I think people should be disarmed in schools. Discuss"

I don't mind it, and I'll bite, just thought I'd point it out. :)

Answer: of course people should carry in schools. People should carry everywhere. Arms make us safer. Everyone used to carry swords (in some places), and society worked just fine. And swords can be much more dangerous than a pistol if someone knows how to use them...

Digression: public schools suck. The government is known to be unable to do things well, so why allow them to educate us? "Schools" existed long before the government ever got involved, and so did "education". It reminds me of Rothbard's example of the lost market.

If the government gets into the business of making all shoes for us today, then 50 years from now, we will be unable to fathom how the market could ever have provided the same service. After all, how could it possibly account for the massive variations of foot size, shape, and personal aesthetic and utilitarian design choices?? We would be indignant at the proposition that the shoe-making business could and should be deregulated.

Cogz
04-16-2008, 11:39 PM
I used to work healthcare security in a 300+ bed hospital that faced security emergencies every day. In size, you can compare it with a 1200-1500 student high school. We had no less than 4 security guards on duty at any time, and even with our pretty damn proficient response, it took between five and forty-five seconds for the first officer to respond to the call after the first call was received by our dispatch. This is with exact pinpoint knowledge of where the incident is taking place, and three officers (one was dispatch) who are randomly patrolling the hospital building and grounds.

As the school tragedies have shown us, all it takes for many people to loose their lives is a matter of seconds.

The best equipped to handle a gunman on the loose are the people who are there when it happens. Period.

rmodel65
04-17-2008, 01:06 AM
colleges any one who can get a ccw, im all for. k-12 not so much. imho i dont think the resource officers should carry a gun or a tazer

maeqFREEDOMfree
04-17-2008, 06:21 AM
I don't think they should be. All of the shootings have taken place in public schools. You already forfeit your right of freedom of religion, speech, peacefully assemble, and petition in public schools and there's no way they'd allow students to carry protection. When the students move to colleges that aren't paid by the government then they suddenly found have been known to be very liberal, but then they come out of those schools thinking "liberal=democrat."

strange the the shootings take place in public schools eh? not too many things like this happen in private schools... why is that? it's not because the private school faculty and staff are armed.

guns aren't the solution to every problem. change the schools by getting on your local school board. and teach your kids about morals, politics, and whatever else is important to you instead of sending them off to be "assimilated" in a public school.

wv@SC
04-17-2008, 08:57 AM
How should people get educated then?

just curious.

Homeschool.

Kade
04-17-2008, 09:07 AM
Vouchers. I go to public school on a daily basis, and it is garbage, I learn more on RPForums than there.

who assigns the vouchers? Who pays for the vouchers?

Kade
04-17-2008, 09:08 AM
Homeschool.


How does that work for single parents?

classicalscholar
04-17-2008, 09:15 AM
Shootings don't happen in private schools.

I am 10 years out of high school and even then I found striking similarities to a prison.

The fact is, public schools have become prisons, where young people are locked into a building and forced into submission by their certified guards.

When you have a prison, you will have a prison culture. Gangs (called 'cliques' in high school) form and violence occasionally ensues.

To stop the shootings, increase the liberty.

Kade
04-17-2008, 09:20 AM
Shootings don't happen in private schools.

I am 10 years out of high school and even then I found striking similarities to a prison.

The fact is, public schools have become prisons, where young people are locked into a building and forced into submission by their certified guards.

When you have a prison, you will have a prison culture. Gangs (called 'cliques' in high school) form and violence occasionally ensues.

To stop the shootings, increase the liberty.

http://crime.about.com/b/2006/10/02/six-killed-in-amish-school-shooting.htm

micahnelson
04-17-2008, 09:22 AM
http://crime.about.com/b/2006/10/02/six-killed-in-amish-school-shooting.htm

Its a little different, the shooter wasn't a student of the school.

Kade
04-17-2008, 09:24 AM
Its a little different, the shooter wasn't a student of the school.

I didn't realize that made them less dead.

pinkmandy
04-17-2008, 09:50 AM
I don't believe in public schools, period.

Ditto.

Even a single, working parent can homeschool. It takes only a few hours/day to homeschool. That can be done in the evening or the parent can work at night and get a sitter then, homeschool during the day. There are ways to keep your kid out of school. When a child is old enough to stay home alone the child is perfectly capable of doing schoolwork w/out someone hanging over his shoulder. In addition, there are many homeschoolers. I personally know I'd have no issue if a local parent needed help so he/she could work. Network. There ARE ways.

Cogz
04-17-2008, 01:30 PM
I think the overall point isn't that everyone should homeschool, or everyone should go to private, or public school. The point is that there should be choice. I should be able to choose to use the method of educating my child that fits my lifestyle, budget, and acceptable level of education.

If public school was completely voluntary (in that money spent could be withdrawn to pay for whatever other schooling you choose) and they had to compete for students, I imagine that they would be faced with the same capitalistic reality that other businesses face. Compete or die!

Once again, this is another example where government subsidies lower the quality of service/product and jack up prices.

BTW - Kade is being devils advocate, and thats good in that it makes us refine our arguments. It might tick you off a little, but he is here to help.

Kade
04-17-2008, 01:34 PM
BTW - Kade is being devils advocate, and thats good in that it makes us refine our arguments. It might tick you off a little, but he is here to help.

Yes, I am. Thank you sir.

AutoDas
04-17-2008, 07:40 PM
I think public schools should be privatized and vouchers should be issued for the first generation of these schools. This will lessen the education gap between the poor and the rich.

What I was saying with this topic is that you already have no rights in public schools so people here should not expect these "gun-free zones" to open up. Amish schools are paid by the Amish community. They preach and teach cooperation, which seems to have been the motivation for the shooter.

I think private schools get a bad rep because it costs a lot of money to compete with a government monopoly. And then public schools have the audacity to rely on the private sector for funding (Pepsi machines in hallways) and to save their intercity schools (Green Dot program can turn around a failing school for just $400 a student). I think the American idea of everyone having to go to school for 15 of their first 18 years and 9 months a year is corrupt because it's not for everyone. And then public schools don't even care about the children, they only care about the teachers' union. Every year the school system churns out mediocrity students, which flood the college market and increase the tuition for those who deserve it. And then there's this perception that pupils have to be well rounded so funding goes to sports instead of education, but education matters cause you need those 4 credits in Art and 8 credits in English to graduate.

OddballAZ
04-17-2008, 08:06 PM
I don't think they should be. All of the shootings have taken place in public schools. You already forfeit your right of freedom of religion, speech, peacefully assemble, and petition in public schools and there's no way they'd allow students to carry protection. When the students move to colleges that aren't paid by the government then they suddenly found have been known to be very liberal, but then they come out of those schools thinking "liberal=democrat."

You have succeeded in not fixing a problem. With this line of thinking the problem of school shootings will continue. More innocent sheeple will be shot and killed by madmen who don't give a flying fuck about your no guns on campus law.

Anyone who is a law abiding adult should be allowed to carry a weapon anywhere. If you have to impose some bullshit rules or feel good measures, then limit it to just people with valid concealed carry permits. I have a CCW. I can drive next to you with a gun concealed. I can walk in front of your house with it concealed. I can go to the grocery store and walk near you with it. You won't even know I have it. But I can't go to college and carry it? Why? Do I suddenly become a mad man who can't be trusted with a firearm just because I set foot over an invisible line???

I'd say you need to "rethink" your position, but that would be incorrect because you haven't put any thought into it at all.

porcupine
04-17-2008, 09:04 PM
I don't think they should be. All of the shootings have taken place in public schools.

First of all, I don't think "public schools should be armed," but I think individuals who are adults should be allowed to be armed everywhere they go (except maybe places like court houses).

Notwithstanding the fact that "all of the shootings" have not taken place in public schools, arguing that there are alot of shootings in a place is an argument for allowing people to protect themselves. Not an argument for disarming victims.

Common sense will tell you that a mass murderer is not going to be stopped by a no guns policy. That means it has NO good effect. It does stop good people from carrying - good people who could stop the rampage and that means gun free zones have only a bad effect.

Compare the shootings at VT and NIU to the church shooting that happened recently where the parishoner was armed and was able to shoot the shooter before he killed too many people. The preacher said she had saved as many as 100 lives.

http://cagle.com/working/071210/lester.jpg

http://www.rmgo.org/images/gun-free-zone-cLR.jpg

AutoDas
04-17-2008, 09:13 PM
Public schools

I'm not talking about private malls and churches.

Carehn
04-18-2008, 11:03 PM
There used to be rifle class in schools way back in the day when kids would bring there guns in and learn about them. I think it would be good if we had no public schools. then we wouldn't have this question.

pcosmar
04-19-2008, 07:09 AM
I have no problem with public schools, but they should be under the control of local people, ie Parents.
I am opposed to no gun zones.
A free citizen should be able to go armed anywhere at any time.
Laws against assault, theft, and murder are enough.

the_british_are_coming
05-03-2008, 01:45 AM
wanna hear a true story?

Private schools and Public schools cost about the same to operate...



difference:

Private schools ASK FOR MONEY. Public schools TAKE YOUR MONEY. which do you think earns your money?

which one is worth it? who provides the best value for your dollar? the ones who earn it, or the ones who demand it?


feel free to extrapolate correlations. ;)

Kade
05-08-2008, 12:38 PM
I don't think they should be. All of the shootings have taken place in public schools. You already forfeit your right of freedom of religion, speech, peacefully assemble, and petition in public schools and there's no way they'd allow students to carry protection. When the students move to colleges that aren't paid by the government then they suddenly found have been known to be very liberal, but then they come out of those schools thinking "liberal=democrat."

Most highly educated people are libertarian or liberal leaning. The schools I attended were all very conservative leaning, and that didn't affect me. Moot point.

voytechs
05-08-2008, 01:17 PM
It should be left upto each individual school how they want to provide safety. The Fed should not get involved, they will only screw it up with their 1 size fits all approach. What if a school wants to arm all their teachers? They should especially keep their hands off of private schools, this way we would have a choice where to send our kinds wherever we feel their safety is properly balanced with the threat/response.

Kade
05-08-2008, 01:22 PM
Compare the shootings at VT and NIU to the church shooting that happened recently where the parishoner was armed and was able to shoot the shooter before he killed too many people. The preacher said she had saved as many as 100 lives.


Why are you being dishonest? Isn't that something your faith is suppose to be against?

constituent
05-08-2008, 01:56 PM
I don't think there should be rules against students arming themselves, particularly not rules against having guns in locked vehicles (that is just ridiculous, imo).

i would have trusted many of my friends with guns any day over some of our coaches, teachers and administrators. frankly, at my school, if some of the staff had been armed, the students would have needed weapons to ensure they could fight back.

Kludge
05-08-2008, 02:07 PM
Privatize schools, privatize choices. Principal and VP should probably be the only two carrying during school.

Tsar Bomba
05-08-2008, 04:29 PM
A better idea would just be to keep your children OUT of "public" schools...

Allen72289
05-08-2008, 05:56 PM
The whole school system needs to be privatized.

Up to prvate property owners

wv@SC
05-09-2008, 06:09 AM
A better idea would just be to keep your children OUT of "public" schools...

QFT +1 gazillion!

pcosmar
05-09-2008, 07:37 AM
This seems to have turned in to an argument about schools,(public or private) rather than about the Right to Bear Arms. Self defense. Personal Liberty.
Regardless of what kind of school (or any public place) citizens should have the right to be armed.

maeqFREEDOMfree
05-09-2008, 08:36 AM
This seems to have turned in to an argument about schools,(public or private) rather than about the Right to Bear Arms. Self defense. Personal Liberty.
Regardless of what kind of school (or any public place) citizens should have the right to be armed.

definitely :-)

the_british_are_coming
05-21-2008, 01:25 AM
Principal and VP should probably be the only two carrying during school.

You don't have kids, do you?

Alex Libman
05-21-2008, 01:33 AM
There shouldn't be any public schools, period.