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john_anderson_ii
08-20-2007, 04:59 PM
I've seen Ron Paul blasted about his willingness to get rid of the department of education on several occasions. A lot of sheeple seem to think that somehow this means Ron Paul does not like education or something. Like a man with the initials "M" and "D" after his name has something against education.

Anyway, I decided to take this question to the source. I used to date a teacher about 7 years, a wife, and three children ago. We would always hang out with her teacher friends. I remember just about every time 3 or more teachers were together it turned into a big "bash the dept of education" session. They hated the federal regulations of "no child left behind" and such, and they claimed these programs destroyed the curriculum, and forced teachers to basically teach less and use classroom time as inefficiently as possible.

The administrators and schools boards of course loved the department of education. Rather, they liked the huge amounts of funding the department handed them every year. They thought the lower standards of education were more than worth the money.

It seems to me that this is the exact same argument Dr. Paul has with a third-party payer health care system. In this case the bureaucrats are running education, just like bureaucrats are running health care. The teachers aren't happy and the students are suffering. The doctors aren't happy and the patients are suffering.

Does anyone know of a Teachers for Ron Paul, or Doctors for Ron Paul type groups ? If we can have a lot of teachers and doctors come forth with why the department of education has failed, and why socialized health care will fail, then maybe that will be enough to offset all this baseless negative media.

I think people will listen to the reporters and accept their views on these issues until someone with real credentials comes along and corrects them. In the meantime I'm going to lookup that old teacher friend of mine and let her, and her friends, know that there is a candidate who is willing to do what she has been wishing for.

stevedasbach
08-20-2007, 05:57 PM
I'd be happy to be involved with "Teachers for Ron Paul.

I'm currently in my 25th year teaching HS science (plus 2 years college teaching). I'm part of the team that works with at-risk students and also teach chemistry sections where LD students are placed, so I am VERY familiar with how federal paperwork, mandates, and bureacracy negatively impact kids. I also teach AP (college-level) chemistry.

DJ RP
08-20-2007, 06:18 PM
Also if anybody reading this thread or pondering this issue has not watched Season 4 of "The Wire" on DVD or HBO they are doing themselves a disservice. Possibly one of the greatest moments in television history and a tragic depiction of what "No Child Left Behind" really means.

Elwar
08-20-2007, 06:21 PM
The main part of the 1994 "Contract with America" that garnered the Republicans the House and Senate was eliminating the Department of Education.

I'd say they did not fulfill their part of the contract.

Sean
08-20-2007, 06:22 PM
The federal government along with some state bureaucrats cause most of the chaos in public schools. Most teachers have little control over the curriculum or discipline in their own classes. Trust me when I say most teachers would be happy to teach without federal government mandates.

tnvoter
08-20-2007, 06:54 PM
The government handles education like it handled HURRICANE KATRINA. Both aftermaths are well-known, so anyone who is so pro-government controlled education in my opinion are the ones who need to be on defense about their beliefs, NOT US.

Kthnx

EvoPro
08-20-2007, 07:06 PM
Dr. Paul really needs to stress that states will resume control of any department, so long as the people of any particular state deem the department a necessary function of their state government.

But I really think these are just propaganda hit pieces.

robatsu
08-20-2007, 07:16 PM
Hot button issue of NCLB for libs - NCLB mandates access to students names/address by military recruiters. This is a good talking point when arguing "big centralized gov. is bad" to libs, give them a practical demonstration of how their ox gets gored by big government.

themanhere
08-20-2007, 07:17 PM
Maybe we need like a fact or FAQ sheet on Ron Paul's campaign message. Where it says where he stands on each issues then have a question underneath that the opposition would ask then a in-depth answer to what would happen.

I see alot of these same questions from people who truly don't understand what he means when he say he's for doing away with a government run program.

itsnobody
08-20-2007, 07:36 PM
The Department of Education is meaningless, if we got rid of it would give local teachers and citizens more control over education...

john_anderson_ii
08-20-2007, 07:40 PM
Dr. Paul really needs to stress that states will resume control of any department, so long as the people of any particular state deem the department a necessary function of their state government.

But I really think these are just propaganda hit pieces.


Maybe we need like a fact or FAQ sheet on Ron Paul's campaign message. Where it says where he stands on each issues then have a question underneath that the opposition would ask then a in-depth answer to what would happen.

I see alot of these same questions from people who truly don't understand what he means when he say he's for doing away with a government run program


I agree with both of these statements. To the first, I think he could stress and clarify these statements if he'd get more than 2 seconds of airtime for every 5 minutes Gulianni gets. To the second that sounds like a great idea!

SlapItHigh
08-20-2007, 07:43 PM
If you talk to someone who doesn't understand that we should get rid of the dept of education, please tell them to read Dumbing Us Down by John Taylor Gatto - http://www.amazon.com/Dumbing-Down-Curriculum-Compulsory-Schooling/dp/0865714487/ref=pd_bbs_2/002-3545537-8064002?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187660458&sr=1-2 . They'll understand after that.

DAZ
08-20-2007, 07:48 PM
Anybody out there who hasn't heard about the "rubber rooms" in NYC?

http://www.reason.com/news/show/33014.html

Regardless of whether or not these teachers actually deserve to be fired, it screams of bloated bureaucratic incompetence that they cannot be.

noxagol
08-20-2007, 08:04 PM
Yeah, that stuff is such bullshit. American education is a joke. I slept through it all and still got A's. I recently read somewhere that students are coming out of school thinking we fought WITH the Germans AGAINST the Russians in World War II!

dircha
08-20-2007, 08:29 PM
But it certainly seems like a poor choice of issues to run on. How many people do you think would agree with the statement, "Eliminate the federal Department of Education?" I would guess very few, and even very few Republicans. In fact I think it would have a generally negative reaction today in 2007.

Whereas even, "The federal government should stop telling teachers how to do their jobs," alone would probably poll much better. Just as "The federal government should stop telling parents how to raise their kids," would probably do well also. Although I'm not convinced it's an issue that he should be running on anyhow.

People going around to Republican primary voters announcing that Ron Paul wants to eliminate the Department of Education are more than likely doing more harm than good unless they know in advance that the voter is a committed small-government Republican.

People approaching this as "Ron Paul wants to eliminate the Department of Education," then following up, "But you see, here's why that's a good thing," don't get it. You immediately put yourself on the defense. You are apologizing for what you just said. And you'll be lucky if you don't leave the voter with a worse impression of Ron Paul than when you started.

Revolution9
08-20-2007, 09:05 PM
"Would you rather pay better salary to your local teachers and get a few more in the bargain..or give uop 50% of that money to a bloated bureaucracy staffed by a bunch of slothlike snips who take ten rings to answer the phone and two days to shuffle a paper.?"

"Do you think the people in Washington currently have the proper morals to decide to tell YOU how to raise and educate your own children?"

"Do you think that since the Feds have mandated cirriculum that the kids are learning more effectively or less effectively than when you went to school?"

"Did you know the teachers themselves are upset at the Feds for mandating this and that and the other which severely interferes with their ability to educate and provide a good learning cirriculum for your children?"

"Do you think a school in the Bronx should be run the exact same way and have the exact same cirriculum that one in a rural farmng cmmunity..and if so why?"

These are a few openers you can use to ease into. Do not be afraid of The Giod Doctors platform. It is honest and we need folks educated about the issues or we cannot have the Free Republic we al want to reinstate.

Best
Randy

skiingff
08-20-2007, 09:07 PM
Just a quick thing to point out, but the Department of Education doesn't educate one child.

Revolution9
08-20-2007, 09:43 PM
Just a quick thing to point out, but the Department of Education doesn't educate one child.

Well kiddies. That about sums it up as succinctly as you can. Who can argue that??

Best
Randy