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View Full Version : Ron Paul backers 'hijack' delegates




acroso
04-06-2008, 03:52 PM
"Voting results disputed in Minnesota conventions"




BLAINE, Minn. Ron Paul supporters shook things up in at least three of Minnesota's congressional district conventions yesterday when they captured nearly all of the national delegates and alternates for the Republican National Convention this fall.

There was controversy at Minnesota's 6th Congressional District Convention. The district covers part of the Twin Cities metro area and extends to the west and into nearby St. Cloud, Minn. Paul supporters were accused of dirty tricks.

"They hijacked the convention," said Jeff Johnson who serves as Minnesota's Senate District 15 co-chairman.

Two out of three national delegates elected were Ron Paul supporters and all three of the alternates supported Paul. After the election results were announced at the convention, they were immediately disputed when it was discovered that the candidates had agreed to support John McCain in pre-screening questions.

"I had people coming up to me saying that they wanted to ensure that Ron Paul has a chance to speak at the convention," said Andy Aplikowsky, the vice chairman of the 6th District in Anoka County, "These people hid what their intentions were and that's deceptive."

Prior to the voting, candidates running to be national delegates were screened by a nominating committee and asked two questions.

"We asked them if they were Republican and then asked if they would support John McCain at the national convention" said Aplikowsky. "They had the option to answer yes, no, or maybe."

The answers to these questions were then presented to the body of congressional delegates to take into consideration in the voting process. When it was discovered the elected national delegates were Paul supporters despite saying they would support McCain, the convention erupted in debate.


A motion was made to ensure the delegates supported McCain at the national convention.

"I moved that we bind the national delegates and alternates to what they told the nominating committee which is what was reported to the voters," said Aplikowsky.

A heated debate lasting more than an hour followed the motion. Eventually, the motion passed by a slim margin, but not without harsh words and harsh exchanges.

The feeling among many of the congressional delegates who voted was that the Paul supporters had been dishonest. Ron Baert, one of the elected national delegates and a Ron Paul supporter disagreed.

"I don't recall the exact wording of the question (about McCain), and so I wanted to clarify it," he said. "So I said that the endorsement hasn't even taken place yet, but that if McCain were endorsed I would support him, however I did not say I would vote to endorse him at the national convention."

Could the wording of the pre-screening questions have been confusing? Aplikowsky who helped in the process didn't think that was likely.

"There were 98 people who went through the questions and it was explained very thoroughly at the time the nominations report was given to the voters," he said.

The 98 candidate names, and their answers to the pre-screening questions were displayed on an overhead projector as well as on a handout available to voters.

Some Paul supporters wanted to know why the pre-screening questions were asked in the first place, and Baert said he and other Paul backers felt intimidated. So what was the purpose of the questions?

"The intention was to identify people and who they were going to support," said Aplikowski. "It wasn't to keep out Ron Paul supporters but to present that information to the body of delegates to vote on, which is one of the purposes of the nominating committee."

The RNC was contacted by phone while the debate was going on, and, according to party rules, the national delegates must endorse John McCain or their votes won't count. That left some angry.

"If they intended to bind candidates to vote for the presumptive nominee (John McCain), they should've announced this at the beginning," said Paul supporter Jim Sutton. "This convention has never bound delegates to a candidate before. It was a torpedo job against us!"

The Ron Paul Revolution also struck Minnesota's 4th and 5th districts where Paul supporters swept the votes for national delegates and alternates. Minnesota Chairman Ron Carey said that the delegates' decision to not unite behind McCain only hurts the Republican party.

Paul has remained in the presidential race despite the fact McCain has now earned enough delegates to become the Republican nominee for president.


http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=60907

Cowlesy
04-06-2008, 03:55 PM
Those supporters aren't hijacking anything. They are simply taking back OUR Republican Party.

The One
04-06-2008, 03:59 PM
Those supporters aren't hijacking anything. They are simply taking back OUR Republican Party.

I love it when they say our people "hijacked" the covention. They get to see how it feels to have the roles reversed. Our foreign policy has been hijacked. The GOP has been hijacked. Hell, the whole damn system has been hijacked for years. Turnabout is fair play.:cool:

Banana
04-06-2008, 04:16 PM
There's another thread, and as I posted over there, I truly hope nobody actually lied about voting for McCain. Lying isn't going to get us anywhere; it's one thing to say I will vote only for those who support conservative values, but entirely another to say I support McCain while crossing the fingers behind the back.

ItsTime
04-06-2008, 04:17 PM
I read somewhere on this forum that the delegates can not be bound because that measure only passed by a few votes and not by a 2/3. Is that correct if so any info on it?

Sandra
04-06-2008, 04:25 PM
To require a delegate to support a single candidate in order to be a delegate is not allowed under RNC rules. Neither can financial contributions go to a single candidate until after the convention. What they are attempting to do is communism.

acroso
04-06-2008, 04:25 PM
There questionaire didn't specify whether they had to vote for McCain at the state convention or the national so it wasn't lying.

Besides, even if they are required to vote McCain they can always agree to vote for him but then "get sick" and not go. Or they could go and vote McCain but booo when he talks and bring Paul signs.

Whatever as long as we're protesting the man who stole our nomination in the name of liberalism (McCain.)

ItsTime
04-06-2008, 04:26 PM
I do not mean to put you on the spot but do you have a link where it says that? (not arguing just want it for my own use)


To require a delegate to support a single candidate in order to be a delegate is not allowed under RNC rules. Neither can financial contributions go to a single candidate until after the convention. What they are attempting to do is communism.

acroso
04-06-2008, 04:45 PM
Here's a flashback post to Missouri delegate thievery. Are their any other states we took a lot of delegates from? (http://www.dailypaul.com/node/42855)

defe07
04-06-2008, 04:48 PM
Oohh, boohoohoo! We were hijacked! IT SERVES THEM RIGHT FOR MOCKING AT THE MESSAGE OF FREEDOM! THEY TOOK OUR COUNTRY TO HELL, WE'RE ONLY DOING WHAT'S FAIR, WE'RE GIVING THEM A DOSE OF THEIR OWN MEDICINE!!! Let the Revolution begin! Guys, please don't feel intimidated that I used caps but it's aboput damned time that somebody turned the tables on them! Don't feel sorry for thse Neo-Cons, force your way through if you have to so that way we can take back what's ours! All these years of screwing the American people and I just hope we have some help from upstairs. They don't know the meaning of defending the country, they only want profits and nothing else. We must go at full speed and make sure they can't do anything about it! Sorry about the yelling but I feel much better knowing that the establishment is getting screwed in a bad way. We took their lollipops away and broke their toys. And we left them crying like the Neo-Con crybabies they are. Ha! :cool:

GHoeberX
04-06-2008, 05:02 PM
Haha; I like to read articles like these; but the Missouri one remains my favorite. :D

Normally, caucuses are political formalities in which the party faithful vote on a list of delegates to send to the state convention and the congressional district caucuses.

But this year's caucus stretched into a six-hour event after supporters of Ron Paul, a presidential nominee and Texas congressman, gained control of the caucus.Josh Stigal, a 24-year-old Republican attendee, walked out of the caucus after three hours. "It's ridiculous," he said.
http://suburbanjournals.stltoday.com/articles/2008/03/24/news/sj2tn20080322-0323stc-caucus0.ii1.txt

Just love it :D

acroso
04-06-2008, 05:09 PM
Did the caucuses in Missouri determine 1/3 of state delegates and the primary determine the other 2/3?

RSLudlum
04-06-2008, 05:10 PM
:)

Sandra
04-06-2008, 06:07 PM
I do not mean to put you on the spot but do you have a link where it says that? (not arguing just want it for my own use)




(15)(11) No delegates or alternate delegates shall be selected pursuant to any Republican Party rule of a state or state law which materially changes the manner of selecting delegates or alternate delegates or the date upon which such state party holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention if such changes were adopted or made effective after the first Tuesday in September of the year before the year in which the national convention is to be held. Where it is not possible for a state party to certify the manner and the date upon which it holds a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention in effect in that state on the date and in the manner provided in paragraph (e) of this rule, the process for holding the presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention shall be conducted in the same manner and held upon the same date as was used for the immediately preceding national convention. If it is not possible to hold a presidential primary, caucus, convention, or meeting for the purpose of voting for a presidential candidate and/or selecting delegates to the national convention upon the same date as was used for the immediately preceding national convention, then delegates or alternate delegates shall be selected by congressional district or state conventions pursuant to paragraph (d) of this rule.


They keep changing rules in spite of the rule you cannot change delegation procedures without the OK from the RNC. Petitioning the RNC for changing the rules for selection must be done befor the first Tuesday in September , one year before the National Convention.
http://www.gop.com/About/AboutRead.aspx?Guid=a4cc4fcb-6043-4af2-860a-41ae912a2c42

Infamouswoodster
04-06-2008, 11:35 PM
I guess those "couple of internet spammers" keep "high-jacking" these delegates. I'm glad we are associated with the downfall of the GOP... Right will prevail and the Neo-cons are running for the hills.

tommyzDad
04-07-2008, 07:23 AM
Great job, MN! Stick it to 'em!

Sandra
04-07-2008, 07:37 AM
Also it IS considered voting for a presidential nominee at the caucus if you are requires to support a candidate. This is very very much against National rules. States cannot change this rule.

newyearsrevolution08
04-07-2008, 11:23 AM
they will push us out if we let them. rules are rules and make sure they dont CHANGE THEM and you just go with it.

Scribbles
04-07-2008, 01:25 PM
Does anyone have a fair handle on what proportion of the actual delegates going to the convention are Ron Paul supporters? Total not just the ones that are 'bound' to RP.

satchelmcqueen
04-07-2008, 05:17 PM
good! now they get to see what it feels like to be pushed out, only we are doing it in a way that goes by the rules and not cheating.

AlbemarleNC0003
04-07-2008, 05:43 PM
So how many states have we "hijacked" now?

devil21
04-07-2008, 07:36 PM
So how many states have we "hijacked" now?

Not just that but I was wondering if there have been delegate selections going on in other states where RP delegates werent nearly as successful as they have been in WA, MO, TX. In other words, are we only seeing positive reports of good results and missing many more negative reports that arent being posted?

torchbearer
04-07-2008, 07:38 PM
Not just that but I was wondering if there have been delegate selections going on in other states where RP delegates werent nearly as successful as they have been in WA, MO, TX. In other words, are we only seeing positive reports of good results and missing many more negative reports that arent being posted?

We reported the negative from Louisiana and NJ.

Michael Landon
04-07-2008, 08:06 PM
Maybe at the Minnesota State Convention there will be enough Paul supporters to pass a motion that ALL the delegates elected from ALL the Congressional Districts will be bound to vote for Ron Paul, wouldn't that be a slap in their face, eh?

- ML

ItsTime
04-07-2008, 08:17 PM
I might die of laughter or have a really wet seat :D


Maybe at the Minnesota State Convention there will be enough Paul supporters to pass a motion that ALL the delegates elected from ALL the Congressional Districts will be bound to vote for Ron Paul, wouldn't that be a slap in their face, eh?

- ML

Scribbler de Stebbing
04-07-2008, 08:19 PM
Maybe at the Minnesota State Convention there will be enough Paul supporters to pass a motion that ALL the delegates elected from ALL the Congressional Districts will be bound to vote for Ron Paul, wouldn't that be a slap in their face, eh?

Heh. At least that'd be a good way to get all you guys from up north to show at the convention. We'll have to swing a few more sympathizers our way for that, though.

TheTyke
04-07-2008, 09:54 PM
I think many states are still working on the whole process.

For example, I'm from KY... and I know my county did well, but don't really have a feel for how other counties did... and it will be some time before the district and state conventions.

acroso
04-07-2008, 11:24 PM
Well Minnesota should motion to kick McCain out of the party first on the grounds that he's secretly a far left Democrat (which he is), and then after that, they could motion to bind the delegates to Ron Paul.

pahs1994
04-08-2008, 12:25 PM
Karma is a bitch i guess... Guilliani and Co. ran delegates in Louisianna under pro life pro family and tricked people into voting for them so i don't see how us "hijacking" the convention is any different...

Michael Landon
04-08-2008, 03:54 PM
Well Minnesota should motion to kick McCain out of the party first on the grounds that he's secretly a far left Democrat (which he is), and then after that, they could motion to bind the delegates to Ron Paul.

I wonder if that would work, seriously.

Marianne, if I were to bring a motion to remove John McCain from the Republican Party on the grounds that he is a Democrat and I were able to show proof by his voting record and personal views do you think we could get this passed?

- ML

Scribbler de Stebbing
04-09-2008, 09:18 PM
I wonder if that would work, seriously.

Marianne, if I were to bring a motion to remove John McCain from the Republican Party on the grounds that he is a Democrat and I were able to show proof by his voting record and personal views do you think we could get this passed?

- ML

I love the idea, but the motion would probably be ruled out of order as the convention doesn't have authority to do that.

What I'd suggest is you and a whole bunch of others (you can get them organized) get ready with the proposed resolutions. For each one, one of you can get up to speak and let the convention know exactly where McCain stands on each. Too bad we won't be going through the existing platform.

If I can think of a better idea, I'll let you know.

Scribbler de Stebbing
04-09-2008, 09:19 PM
You could make a motion that the convention expresses the sentiment that McCain is not a Republican. That would still be tough to get passed. Come up with some less terse verbiage, and perhaps.

seapilot
04-09-2008, 11:47 PM
Congrats MN. Here in Alaska it was lively debate on the floor as well. Not one delegate from Alaska was a McCain "purist".