To everyone who thinks peak oil is a conspiracy or can be solved through the market

[BenIsForRon]

Click the august 18th interview: All the Canaries Have Stopped Singing

http://www.financialsense.com/Experts/2007/Simmons.html

This is an interview with Matthew Simmons talking about the general ignorance in America about our energy future. If you don't know about peak oil this will be one of the most important interviews you've ever listened to.

[Matt Collins]

Read this book:
Black Gold Stranglehold (the myth of scarcity of oil) by Jerome R., Ph.D. Corsi and Craig R. Smith

It's available here: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Stranglehold-Jerome-Ph-D-Corsi/dp/1581824890/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-4121109-3251033?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187637440&sr=8-1

Book Description :
Experts estimate that Americans consume more than 25 percent of the world's oil but have control over less than 3 percent of its proven oil supply. This unbalanced pattern of consumption makes it possible for foreign governments, corrupt political leaders, terrorist organizations, and oil conglomerates to hold the economy and the citizens of the United States in a virtual stranglehold. There is no greater proof of this than the direct relationship between skyrocketing gas prices and the explosion of wealth among those who control the world's supply of oil.

In Black Gold Stranglehold, Jerome Corsi and Craig Smith expose the fraudulent science that has made America so vulnerable: the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and that it is a finite resource. This book reveals the conclusions reached by Dr. Thomas Gold, a professor at Cornell University, in his seminal book The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels (Copernicus Books, 1998) and accepted by many in the scientific community that oil is not a product of fossils and prehistoric forests but rather the bio-product of a continuing biochemical reaction below the earth's surface that is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the earth's rotation.

Jerome Corsi explores the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption, including the wealth and power of major oil conglomerates, the manipulation of world economies by oil-producing nations and rogue terrorist regimes, and the shortsightedness of those who endorse expensive conservation efforts while rejecting the use of the oil reserves currently controlled by the U.S. government.

As an expert in tangible assets, Craig Smith provides an understanding of the history of America's dangerous dissociation of the dollar with precious—and truly scarce—metals such as gold and the devastation that would be inflicted on the U.S. economy if Middle Eastern countries are able to follow through with current plans to make the euro the standard currency for oil instead of U.S. dollars.

Black Gold Stranglehold is a thoughtful work that is certain to dramatically change the debate on oil consumption, oil dependence, and oil availability.

From the Inside Flap
It is estimated that Americans consume more than 25 percent of the world's oil but have control over less than 3 percent of its proven supply. This extremely unbalanced pattern of consumption makes it possible for foreign governments, corrupt political leaders, terrorist organizations, and oil conglomerates to place the citizens of the United States in a stranglehold of supply and demand. There is no greater proof of this than the direct relationship between skyrocketing gas prices and the exploding wealth of those who control the supply of oil.

In Black Gold Stranglehold, Jerome R. Corsi and Craig R. Smith expose the fraudulent science that has been sold to the American people in order to enslave them: the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and a finite resource. On the contrary, this book presents authoritative research, currently known mostly in the scientific community, that oil is not a product of decaying dinosaurs and prehistoric forests. Rather, it is a natural product of the earth. The scientific evidence cited by Corsi and Smith suggests that oil is constantly being produced by the earth, far below the planet's surface, and that it is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the earth's rotation.

In great detail Corsi and Smith explore the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption. This includes the wealth and power of major oil conglomerates, the manipulation of world economies by oil-producing states and rogue terrorist regimes, and the political agenda of radical environmentalists and conservationists who obstruct the use of oil reserves currently controlled by the U.S. government. The authors offer an understanding of the dangerous situation America faces because its currency is no longer tied to any precious and truly scarce metals such as gold, as it was until 1973. This situation could easily lead to the devastation of the U.S. economy if Middle Eastern countries are able to enact current plans to accept only the Euro or gold-backed currencies such as the Gold Dinar instead of the U.S. dollar as the standard currency for oil.

Black Gold Stranglehold will dramatically change the debate about oil. The significance of its message is sure to cause thoughtful people to reconsider the current dependence of the U.S. economy on imported oil.

[Trance Dance Master]

Peak Oil = Zionist Scam: Russia proves it.

http://www.vialls.com/wecontrolamerica/peakoil.html

Peak Silver = Death of Federal Reserve. Capitalize on it.

http://www.conspiracypenpal.com/columns/peak.htm

[lucius]

Read this book:
Black Gold Stranglehold (the myth of scarcity of oil) by Jerome R., Ph.D. Corsi and Craig R. Smith

It's available here: http://www.amazon.com/Black-Stranglehold-Jerome-Ph-D-Corsi/dp/1581824890/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-4121109-3251033?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187637440&sr=8-1

Book Description :
Experts estimate that Americans consume more than 25 percent of the world's oil but have control over less than 3 percent of its proven oil supply. This unbalanced pattern of consumption makes it possible for foreign governments, corrupt political leaders, terrorist organizations, and oil conglomerates to hold the economy and the citizens of the United States in a virtual stranglehold. There is no greater proof of this than the direct relationship between skyrocketing gas prices and the explosion of wealth among those who control the world's supply of oil.

In Black Gold Stranglehold, Jerome Corsi and Craig Smith expose the fraudulent science that has made America so vulnerable: the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and that it is a finite resource. This book reveals the conclusions reached by Dr. Thomas Gold, a professor at Cornell University, in his seminal book The Deep Hot Biosphere: The Myth of Fossil Fuels (Copernicus Books, 1998) and accepted by many in the scientific community that oil is not a product of fossils and prehistoric forests but rather the bio-product of a continuing biochemical reaction below the earth's surface that is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the earth's rotation.

Jerome Corsi explores the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption, including the wealth and power of major oil conglomerates, the manipulation of world economies by oil-producing nations and rogue terrorist regimes, and the shortsightedness of those who endorse expensive conservation efforts while rejecting the use of the oil reserves currently controlled by the U.S. government.

As an expert in tangible assets, Craig Smith provides an understanding of the history of America's dangerous dissociation of the dollar with precious—and truly scarce—metals such as gold and the devastation that would be inflicted on the U.S. economy if Middle Eastern countries are able to follow through with current plans to make the euro the standard currency for oil instead of U.S. dollars.

Black Gold Stranglehold is a thoughtful work that is certain to dramatically change the debate on oil consumption, oil dependence, and oil availability.

From the Inside Flap
It is estimated that Americans consume more than 25 percent of the world's oil but have control over less than 3 percent of its proven supply. This extremely unbalanced pattern of consumption makes it possible for foreign governments, corrupt political leaders, terrorist organizations, and oil conglomerates to place the citizens of the United States in a stranglehold of supply and demand. There is no greater proof of this than the direct relationship between skyrocketing gas prices and the exploding wealth of those who control the supply of oil.

In Black Gold Stranglehold, Jerome R. Corsi and Craig R. Smith expose the fraudulent science that has been sold to the American people in order to enslave them: the belief that oil is a fossil fuel and a finite resource. On the contrary, this book presents authoritative research, currently known mostly in the scientific community, that oil is not a product of decaying dinosaurs and prehistoric forests. Rather, it is a natural product of the earth. The scientific evidence cited by Corsi and Smith suggests that oil is constantly being produced by the earth, far below the planet's surface, and that it is brought to attainable depths by the centrifugal forces of the earth's rotation.

In great detail Corsi and Smith explore the international and domestic politics of oil production and consumption. This includes the wealth and power of major oil conglomerates, the manipulation of world economies by oil-producing states and rogue terrorist regimes, and the political agenda of radical environmentalists and conservationists who obstruct the use of oil reserves currently controlled by the U.S. government. The authors offer an understanding of the dangerous situation America faces because its currency is no longer tied to any precious and truly scarce metals such as gold, as it was until 1973. This situation could easily lead to the devastation of the U.S. economy if Middle Eastern countries are able to enact current plans to accept only the Euro or gold-backed currencies such as the Gold Dinar instead of the U.S. dollar as the standard currency for oil.

Black Gold Stranglehold will dramatically change the debate about oil. The significance of its message is sure to cause thoughtful people to reconsider the current dependence of the U.S. economy on imported oil.

Just picked it up off Amazon for $8.98 total, thanks for the prompt! If you ever get the chance, listen to Lindsey Williams talk about Gull Island AK find. Don't let his religion interfere with his message. What did kissenger say, 'Control a nation by its oil supply, control population by its food supply.'

[BenIsForRon]

OK... they guy who wrote that book (Jerome Corsi) is COMPLETELY RETARDED! He believes in abiotic oil, which is oil that magically pops out of the ground. Oil is formed by millions of years of pressure on organic material underground. Everyone with a brain and a grade school education knows this.

Listen to the interview, then try to refute the points in it. Just finding a book to say what you want to believe doesn't cut it.

[noxagol]

You can MAKE crude oil by pumping CO2 into a lake filled with algae.

[Matt Collins]

He believes in abiotic oil, which is oil that magically pops out of the ground. Oil is formed by millions of years of pressure on organic material underground. Everyone with a brain and a grade school education knows this.You mean a government education, right? :rolleyes:

Conventional thinking is not always 100% accurate.

As a primer start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin

Also realize this is a Russian theory which was largely ignored by the West because it came about during the Cold War.

Essentially there were not enough dino carcasses out there to create the amount of oil we have thus far extracted.

Also, because organic material is found in crude oil does not mean that organic material is the basis for the compound. We find organisms living at extreme pressures and temperatures (think thermal vents on the ocean floor).


Also see this article in Discover Magazine about a company who can take almost anything and produce petroleum crude: http://discovermagazine.com/2006/apr/anything-oil/

And:
http://www.homepages.indiana.edu/011405/text/hydrocarbons.shtml
and
http://www.csun.edu/~vcgeo005/Energy.html
and
http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007APS..MARD23009K
and
http://www.geo.umn.edu/orgs/aqueous/FU_GCA_2007.pdf

(others available if you search Google - specifically in the .edu domains)


Also another book on the subject: "The Deep Hot Biosphere : The Myth of Fossil Fuels" by Thomas Gold:
http://www.amazon.com/Deep-Hot-Biosphere-Fossil-Fuels/dp/0387952535/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-4292794-2483930?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1187653171&sr=8-1

[BenIsForRon]

You can MAKE crude oil by pumping CO2 into a lake filled with algae.

Ok... that's not true either. We are working on a way to make biofuels from algae, but it is much more complex than that, and there have been no breakthroughs in the research so far. Peak Oil is happening NOW.

[BenIsForRon]

You mean a government education, right? :rolleyes:

Conventional thinking is not always 100% accurate.

As a primer start here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abiogenic_petroleum_origin


Ok, go back and actually read that wikipedia article. Most of the evidence "proving" abiotic oil is from russia in the 1960's. You don't see russians saying this now. The interview mentions how many in Russia (who hasn't reached their peak yet) want to control the flow of oil into the economy so they don't hit a brick wall with their economy like we are about to. I'm not saying thats what we should do, just that most geologists don't believe in abiotic oil anymore, because it's been proven otherwise.

Like I said, you really should listen to the interview with an open mind and then come back and add to the discussion.

[Hook]

The emperical evidence is very strongly against Abiotic Oil. You can turn any organic material into crude via pyrolisis, but that is exactly what happens in the current understanding of how oil is formed anyway.

[constituent]

it's a non-issue. we've got plenty of unused/reusable hydrocarbons buried in landfills the world over. don't sweat the small stuff. we'll live off our grandparents' and parents' garbage for centuries to come. just wait.

think about how little material goes into the gadgets we use today... imagine twenty years. look what you do with your laptop (the most common mineral in your laptop is refined dirt) and compare that to the t.v. you grew up with. the times are changing very rapidly. This is all a matter of acceptance, of changing the way we perceive our world.

biochemistry will produce the fabrics and fuels of the future. we may not be there yet (probably because these innovations may not be that patentable, i don't know), but will be soon.

scarcity is a myth. we can live in a world of plenty if we choose to, our species has come a long way from simple tools and agriculture, now we have to admit it and reevaluate the direction we are heading in. oil is a distraction. consider how many organisms on the surface produce oils that usable as fuels that rot in empty pastures and roadsides, it is enormous.

combine these sources with the other available and currently developing technologies and panic mode over oil is just beyond me.

[BenIsForRon]

^it's beyond you because you haven't read about it. Listen to the interview I linked to, it's about 45 minutes, he goes over many of the things you mentioned. Oil is not a distraction, it's the lifeblood of our economy, have you ever heard the term petrodollar? There is no technology on the horizon that will even come close to replacing the rapidly decreasing production over the next few years. We are screwed if we want to maintain an economy similar to the one we have now.

And keep in mind, this isn't far from what Ron Paul says. You will hear him say at almost every rally: we are living beyond our means. It's just that people don't understand the fundamental role oil plays in our economy, so they don't believe it's a big deal that worldwide production is already in decline.

[Matt Collins]

iwe've got plenty of unused/reusable hydrocarbons buried in landfills the world over. don't sweat the small stuff. we'll live off our grandparents' and parents' garbage for centuries to come. Exactly, we just need to figure out how to extract the energy out of that material without spending more energy than we get. Also, it of course needs to be cheaper than pumping crude.

[BenIsForRon]

Of course landfill energy is a wonderful idea, some areas are already using it to a certain degree by capturing methane gases coming from landfills. The problem is, it only meets a tiny fraction of our energy consumption, and we have years to go with the technology.

However....

PEAK OIL IS HAPPENING NOW! The only solution is to reduce consumption (Ron Paul: live within our means), Decentralize the economy (Ron Paul: stop subsidizing multinational corporations), and decentralize the government (Ron Paul: decrease size of federal government).

[Gilby]

Crude oil is what is currently used for many products, but there are alternatives and it will all come down to price. Let's assume they are right that oil supply has reached its peak. When the price of crude goes up it just means that innovation in alternatives will be made because the demand for the alternatives is higher and the price/incentive is then on par with the use of crude. A free market won't allow a sudden end to our crude oil supply, because investors will save the crude with an expectation of the price going higher in the future making any price changes be relatively gradual.

The real threat is how the governments react. They may try to enforce price controls or may use military force to take control of the crude oil supply. Both situations would result in a run in the oil supply and undermines the natural signals, to conserve and find alternatives, that happen in a free market. China and the US will probably be fighting it out for the oil.

[MBA2008]

No offense, but the other day you were harping on global warming, now it's peak oil.

Frankly, I pray that you're right. The faster we start running out of oil, the sooner we'll get to something else and hopefully start shutting people up about fossil fuels and global warming. Although, they'll have more time to talk about the utopia of Universal Health Care. Hmmm, maybe I'm not in such a rush after all...

Until that happens though, I'm not going to worry too much about man-made warming:

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=57253

I have about, let's see here, one, two, three...oh yeah about a zillion more articles like this one from climatologists, meteorologists, and environmentalists, and from sources far more liberal than WND.

I really wish folks would go out and build a better car/power plant/whatever that is cost effective instead of claiming the sky is falling and doom is imminent if we don't start doing what Al Gore says.

We've been told for about the past century that we'll be out of fuel in ten years, or the population will be more than the earth can support. But, then lo and behold, man adapts and develops a more efficient this or a more efficient that. Now is no different than before. When stuff starts getting too expensive or we start running out, we'll start making it better or more effieciently. This will all happen naturally and over time. If you don't believe me, then open any sophomore Economics book and read the chapters on supply & demand and equilibrium.

As far as man-made warming is concerned; it's a crap shoot AT BEST. Should we be more efficient and try to reduce pollution? Yes, but stop with MMGW and "were almost out of fuel" rackets. These are instruments of control, and anybody who has basic critical reasoning skills (I admit there are fewer than I'd like) can see that these don't spell the certain doom that their prognosticators would like to have us believe.

I know this sounds crazy, but Al Gore can be wrong.

AHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111 NOOOOOOOOOOO. But he invented teh internets, how can he be wrong?!!?!?!111

[BenIsForRon]

^Ok, so I'm the one under the instruments of control, and you're the one calling me a liberal and saying I like Al Gore and universal health care? That's exactly what fox news would want you to say to me. Divide and conquer. Good Job.

In response to Gilby, you hit the nail on the head in your last sentence. Peak oil is one of the main reasons we are in Iraq. We know demand will be far exceeding supply soon, so we decided it would be better to occupy another country and take control of their oil (see: Iraq Oil Law) instead of changing our way of life at home. As Bush Sr. said "The American way of life is non-negotiable".

Ok, so how many of you that responded to the TITLE of my thread actually listened to the INTERVIEW? The markets will not give us new technology because the technology to the scale we need doesn't exist yet. When the economy collapses because of peak oil, nobody will have the resources to even continue manufacturing things like solar panels.

[constituent]

No Ben, it is not above me as you'd like to believe. Don't you imagine that perhaps I feel the same way about you?

I'm fully aware that our nation lives beyond our means... but times are changing [.]

and i have no desire to continue living with the economy with have at present. it is destructive both to the individual in
terms of social development and family splintering, selfishness and greed, and destructive to the evironment.

we have a w.a.s.t.e. economy. not an oil one. we have a consumer economy, not an oil one. consumerism is dead.

you just don't understand that yet.

you are not ready to kiss it goodbye... get there.

[BenIsForRon]

I wasn't trying to insult you I was just responding to this.



combine these sources with the other available and currently developing technologies and panic mode over oil is just beyond me.

We do have a waste economy, but it is a waste economy that is run on oil. Oil is involved in the transportation of most goods. In our food, oil is used as a pesticide, fertilizer, harvesting, plowing, shipping, and packaging.

I just made this thread because it really seems like a lot of people think everything is gonna be just fine and we don't need to worry about declining oil supplies, when in reality, it should be one of our main worries. It's actually the main reason I'm voting for Ron Paul. He would undo the police state first of all, and he also wants to put more responsibility on local governments and economies. That is the main thing we need to do to deal with peak oil.

I would love to see consumerism die, but it hardly looks like its losing any steam if you watch five seconds of TV or drive past any strip mall.

[Man from La Mancha]

Just explore this site the possibilities are endless. If the peak oil is for real so what there are so many ideas out there, The market will take of it. This is a non worry that innovative Americans can handle. A big scare like co2 causes global warming.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Main_Page

A New Energy Congress Top 100 Technologies, prioritized listing of the very best energy technologies according to ten criteria, including: renewable, environmentally safe, affordable, credible, reliable, developed, and safe (among others). The New Energy Congress is an association for the purpose of reviewing the most promising claims to up-and-coming clean, renewable, affordable, reliable energy technologies, in order to come up with a weighted list of recommendations of the best technologies.

http://peswiki.com/index.php/Congress:Top_100_Technologies_--_RD..This will amaze you.

[dantheman]

Oil is our lifeblood. That's true. We know that and the government sure as heck knows that. That's why we have our never ending wars in the Middle East. It's a last shot at scraping up whatever supplies we can before everything collapses. The actions of our current administration show that they're a little pressed for time on securing our "American Interests". You think Dick Cheney wants to go into Iran to fight terrorism? Shouldn't that be a sign to us that they know something we don't? In truth many of us know about Peak Oil and know that this is the biggest issue of our time.

All this talk about Alternative Solutions is anything but a solution. Talk Matt Savinar for instance. He's the author of The Oil Age is Over: What to Expect as the World Runs Out of Cheap Oil, 2005-2050. In an interview he did in 2005, he says:

People tend to think of alternatives to oil as somehow independent from oil. In reality, the alternatives to oil are more accurately described as "derivatives of oil." It takes massive amounts of oil and other scarce resources to locate and mine the raw materials (silver, copper, platinum, uranium, etc.) necessary to build solar panels, windmills, and nuclear power plants. It takes more oil to construct these alternatives and even more oil to distribute them, maintain them, and adapt current infrastructure to run on them.

To read the rest of the interview:
http://www.inthewake.org/savinar1.html

Any step we take to prepare for this future will be of some help. Granted we're getting a very late start, but there's still time to lessen the blow. That's why with Ron Paul in the White House, we know we can overcome things like this. It will hurt us, yes, and there will be massive changes to our way of life. But we as a society can still prevail and continue a much more simplistic and peaceful existence...