To those of you against conspiracy theories:

[donumabdeo]

Conspiracies are nothing new in the world, they have existed in every government since the beginning of time. Just look at how Julius Caesar was assassinated for instance. Conspiracy just means people working together for something bad. If it helps, just call it a "bad guys working together" theory in your own mind and maybe you will have an easier time reading the theory.

Instead of judging a conspiracy theory based on the thought, "Naaaah they wouldn't do something like that, they wear suits, and graduated from H-aaaah-vard or Yale", consider whether the theory itself carries an idea in it which cannot be disproved. (ie: the towers fell unnaturally, the Federal Reserve can create money out of nothing and is not a branch of the government, the name of the FR is a deception, masonry is bad, etc.) Conspiracies happen every day all over the world.

P.S. Bigfoot, aliens, Lochness monster, are not real in my personal opinion.

[Patriot123]

Hey, look. I have no problem with people talking their minds and opinions. But these theories are just... So out there, so... Stupid as they can all easily be disputed that people just get... Angry when they disprove a theory and the person just comes back repetetively and says, "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE BOMBS IN THE TOWERS? WHAT ABOUT THE BOMBS IN THE TOWERS?" Furthermore, they're not thought out at all. Third, these people go around claiming that their theory is true without any definite proof but rather just speculation when they should be sayying that it is what they believe. Not what's absolutely true when they don't have the facts to back it up.

[Sandra]

What alarming is trolls like you come in with 3 posts and want to divert fron the subject of Ron Paul's message. If you want to talk about Ron Paul then ,welcome.

[slacker921]

oh boy.. another new account posting conspiracy theory stuff.
I just wonder how much the GOP is paying these people to come and destroy the Ron Paul movement? That's my conspiracy theory for the day.

donumabdeo.. Are you donating to the High Tide airtime (http://alcpac.chipin.com/the-high-tide-airtime)?

[pcosmar]

Here is a very good editorial on this subject.
http://neithercorp.us/npress/?p=38


Rethinking the term “Conspiracy Theory”

By Joshua Ogden

The term “conspiracy theory” has been made to be synonymous with “fiction.” Fragments of truth about real conspiracies have been deliberately misrepresented in popular culture, or combined with ridiculous obsessions like Aliens and Bigfoots in order to discredit the truth. The result is a popular belief that “conspiracy theories” are for entertainment purposes only.

“Conspiracy Theory” is an intellectually bankrupt put-down phrase, used by people who are unwilling to look at the evidence for themselves, because they are afraid that they will be forced to arrive at a very unpleasant conclusion. Americans who refuse to accept, for example, that the Council on Foreign Relations controls both political parties, are simply trying to protect their fragile psyches from the awful truth. People don’t like being told they’ve been conditioned or programmed, and they would rather believe that they live in a free society and their government would never hurt them, so they edit out the unpleasant parts of their reality.

Conspiracies by men in power have occurred time and again throughout recorded history, in just about every nation on the planet. The notion that 21st century America is immune to such tactics, or that conspiracies don’t happen anymore, is simply foolish.

If the facts about the control exerted over nations by the central banking families are indeed a hoax, then that hoax would have to be part of another conspiracy altogether - a conspiracy to travel through history planting evidence to frame the central banking families! Which is more plausible?

Conspiracy is not even the best word for some of the ideas that are dismissed as “conspiracy theory,” because a conspiracy implies a small group working in secret. The globalist agenda is no secret. The CFR is more than happy to tell you exactly what they are doing, because they are arrogant. They know they control public thought so well that it won’t matter what they say. They hide the truth in plain sight, because they know the average person will never see it because of their unwillingness to believe in something so pervasive.

The ever-expanding control-grid referred to by some as the “New World Order” is not some secret conspiracy, it’s just the way things are.

The idea that a conspiracy would not work because the people involved would inevitably leak the information is erroneous because it shows a lack of understanding of how these “conspiracies” function. This is why “conspiracy” isn’t always the best word — not everyone involved fully comprehends what they are a part of. They are compartmentalized. For example, there are 3000+ members in the CFR, and they are not all on the same page. Some of them are members because they believe in world government. Some see membership as being good for business. Some are members because it makes them feel good to run with the elitists in their “secret club”. A small minority are members because they’re bloodthirsty eugenicists! But at the end of the day, the CFR’s collective agenda is made clear by the direction in which the country is being steered.

Many of our senators and representatives know about the CFR, but most do not understand what it really is. They know about the Federal Reserve, but they cannot comprehend the degree of control it holds over our nation. There are also many politicians and policy makers who were literally installed by the elitists. They do what they are told but may not understand why. They are only given as much information as they need to fulfill their part of the overall gameplan. Every once in a while, an honest congressperson figures out what’s going on… and they know their career will be destroyed (at the very least) if they speak out. Even more rarely, one will be brave enough to speak out anyways.

Perhaps the solution to this mental block that people seem to have is to avoid altogether the use of the term “conspiracy,” and present the facts in a nonchalant manner. If you know about the Federal Reserve and the CFR, don’t act like you’ve stumbled across some earthshattering secret that will blow people’s minds. It’s really not that far-fetched. In order to overcome this resistance to the truth, popular culture will have to be made to reflect the idea that ignorance and apathy aren’t hip anymore — “Come on, EVERYONE knows about this stuff, where you been man?”

People armed with the truth need to drop their wide-eyed hysteria and quit ranting like Alex Jones. I respect AJ, but seriously, we need a new approach.

[banjojambo9]

Hey, look. I have no problem with people talking their minds and opinions. But these theories are just... So out there, so... Stupid as they can all easily be disputed that people just get... Angry when they disprove a theory and the person just comes back repetetively and says, "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE BOMBS IN THE TOWERS? WHAT ABOUT THE BOMBS IN THE TOWERS?" Furthermore, they're not thought out at all. Third, these people go around claiming that their theory is true without any definite proof but rather just speculation when they should be sayying that it is what they believe. Not what's absolutely true when they don't have the facts to back it up.

what is your opinion on the 5 dancing israelis ?

[Patriot123]

what is your opinion on the 5 dancing israelis ?

LOL. Blame the Jews, yah? Yeah, we Jews are complete devils. We brought down the World Trade Centers just because we felt like it, right? There are video recordings of the terrorists [who were Saudis] boarding the aircraft. There are voice recordings from those "black boxes" as well. Please. Use some common sense next time.

[The One]

LOL. Blame the Jews, yah? Yeah, we Jews are complete devils. We brought down the World Trade Centers just because we felt like it, right? There are video recordings of the terrorists [who were Saudis] boarding the aircraft. There are voice recordings from those "black boxes" as well. Please. Use some common sense next time.

There are no videos of "the terrorists" boarding the aircraft. There is one video of two of the accused boarding a different aircraft at a different time at a different airport. You obviously haven't done your research and are not qualified to opine on this subject.

[Patriot123]

Oh, I'm not? I don't think conspiracy theorists are qualified either to get their opinion in, but that's just me :/

I read the 9/11 Comission Report. Did yooouuu? I don't think so :) Tell me, what proof do you have Israel did it? Hmmm? Israelis dancing? That's what we sane people call s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n ;)

[The One]

Oh, I'm not? I don't think conspiracy theorists are qualified either to get their opinion in, but that's just me :/

I read the 9/11 Comission Report. Did yooouuu? I don't think so :) Tell me, what proof do you have Israel did it? Hmmm? Israelis dancing? That's what we sane people call s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n ;)

I didn't say Israel did it.

You read the 9/11 Commission Report....good for you. That's important. Now spend about a year reading all the other available literature on 9/11 and get back to me. Start by looking into the supposed airport surveillance video of the supposed hijackers, since it's a topic on which you've previously shown yourself to be misinformed.:cool:

[sratiug]

Oh, I'm not? I don't think conspiracy theorists are qualified either to get their opinion in, but that's just me :/

I read the 9/11 Comission Report. Did yooouuu? I don't think so :) Tell me, what proof do you have Israel did it? Hmmm? Israelis dancing? That's what we sane people call s-p-e-c-u-l-a-t-i-o-n ;)

Did the Israelis attack the USS LIberty? What proof do you have that Israelis did not intend to kill everyone on board and blame the attack on Egypt to aid the cause of American intervention in the middle east?

[Bruno]

Here is a very good editorial on this subject.
http://neithercorp.us/npress/?p=38

Good read! Thanks for posting it.

I was talking with a friend last night, and took a different approach that I had heard (perhaps here somewhere).

Conspiracies happen every day and police arrest people for conspiracy all the time. To conspire is simply two or more people having a role in an agenda of any kind. If a person drives their friend to a dealer to get drugs, the police can charge the driver with "conspiracy". "Conspiracy Theorists" are just giving a bad name to marginalize them, as the article you posted discusses.

As another analogy, most people find it completely believable and accepted that members of college fraternities help each other out to get jobs out of college. If a member of a fraternity is applying for a job and that hiring manager is of the same fraternity, you can bet that will come up in conversation and that person has a higher chance of employment than another person with a similar resume.

[banjojambo9]

LOL. Blame the Jews, yah? Yeah, we Jews are complete devils. We brought down the World Trade Centers just because we felt like it, right? There are video recordings of the terrorists [who were Saudis] boarding the aircraft. There are voice recordings from those "black boxes" as well. Please. Use some common sense next time.
I am sorry i didnt mean to offend. I was just interested to know your opinion .have you done any research on this incident ?

[banjojambo9]

is this article racist?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Some people like Jews and some do not; but no thoughtful man can doubt the fact that they are beyond all question the most formidable and the most remarkable race which has ever appeared in the world.

Disraeli, the Jew Prime Minister of England, and Leader of the Conservative Party, who was always true to his race and proud of his origin, said on a well-known occasion: "The Lord deals with the nations as the nations deal with the Jews." Certainly when we look at the miserable state of Russia, where of all countries in the world the Jews were the most cruelly treated, and contrast it with the fortunes of our own country, which seems to have been so providentially preserved amid the awful perils of these times, we must admit that nothing that has since happened in the history of the world has falsified the truth of Disraeli's confident assertion.

Good and Bad Jews.
The conflict between good and evil which proceeds unceasingly in the breast of man nowhere reaches such intensity as in the Jewish race. The dual nature of mankind is nowhere more strongly or more terribly exemplified. We owe to the Jews in the Christian revelation a system of ethics which, even if it were entirely separated from the supernatural, would be incomparably the most precious possession of mankind, worth in fact the fruits of all other wisdom and learning put together. On that system and by that faith there has been built out of the wreck of the Roman Empire the whole of our existing civilisation.

And it may well be that this same astounding race may at the present time be in the actual process of producing another system of morals and philosophy, as malevolent as Christianity was benevolent, which, if not arrested, would shatter irretrievably all that Christianity has rendered possible. It would almost seem as if the gospel of Christ and the gospel of Antichrist were destined to originate among the same people; and that this mystic and mysterious race had been chosen for the supreme manifestations, both of the divine and the diabolical.

"National" Jews.
There can be no greater mistake than to attribute to each individual a recognisable share in the qualities which make up the national character. There are all sorts of men -- good, bad and, for the most part, indifferent -- in every country, and in every race. Nothing is more wrong than to deny to an individual, on account of race or origin, his right to be judged on his personal merits and conduct. In a people of peculiar genius like the Jews, contrasts are more vivid, the extremes are more widely separated, the resulting consequences are more decisive.

At the present fateful period there are three main lines of political conception among the Jews, two of which are helpful and hopeful in a very high degree to humanity, and the third absolutely destructive.

First there are the Jews who, dwelling in every country throughout the world, identify themselves with that country, enter into its national life, and, while adhering faithfully to their own religion, regard themselves as citizens in the fullest sense of the State which has received them. Such a Jew living in England would say, "I am an Englishman practising the Jewish faith." This is a worthy conception, and useful in the highest degree. We in Great Britain well know that during the great struggle the influence of what may be called the "National Jews" in many lands was cast preponderatingly on the side of the Allies; and in our own Army Jewish soldiers have played a most distinguished part, some rising to the command of armies, others winning the Victoria Cross for valour.

The National Russian Jews, in spite of the disabilities under which they have suffered, have managed to play an honourable and useful part in the national life even of Russia. As bankers and industrialists they have strenuously promoted the development of Russia's economic resources, and they were foremost in the creation of those remarkable organizations, the Russian Co-operative Societies. In politics their support has been given, for the most part, to liberal and progressive movements, and they have been among the staunchest upholders of friendship with France and Great Britain.

International Jews.
In violent opposition to all this sphere of Jewish effort rise the schemes of the International Jews. The adherents of this sinister confederacy are mostly men reared up among the unhappy populations of countries where Jews are persecuted on account of their race. Most, if not all, of them have forsaken the faith of their forefathers, and divorced from their minds all spiritual hopes of the next world. This movement among the Jews is not new. From the days of Spartacus-Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx, and down to Trotsky (Russia), Bela Kun (Hungary), Rosa Luxembourg (Germany), and Emma Goldman (United States), this world-wide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilisation and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality, has been steadily growing. It played, as a modern writer, Mrs. Webster, has so ably shown, a definitely recognisable part in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the Nineteenth Century; and now at last this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.

Terrorist Jews.
There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution, by these international and for the most part atheistical Jews. It is certainly a very great one; it probably outweighs all others. With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews. Moreover, the principal inspiration and driving power comes from the Jewish leaders. Thus Tchitcherin, a pure Russian, is eclipsed by his nominal subordinate Litvinoff, and the influence of Russians like Bukharin or Lunacharski cannot be compared with the power of Trotsky, or of Zinovieff, the Dictator of the Red Citadel (Petrograd), or of Krassin or Radek -- all Jews. In the Soviet institutions the predominance of Jews is even more astonishing. And the prominent, if not indeed the principal, part in the system of terrorism applied by the Extraordinary Commissions for Combating Counter-Revolution has been taken by Jews, and in some notable cases by Jewesses. The same evil prominence was obtained by Jews in the brief period of terror during which Bela Kun ruled in Hungary. The same phenomenon has been presented in Germany (especially in Bavaria), so far as this madness has been allowed to prey upon the temporary prostration of the German people. Although in all these countries there are many non-Jews every whit as bad as the worst of the Jewish revolutionaries, the part played by the latter in proportion to their numbers in the population is astonishing.

"Protector of the Jews."
Needless to say, the most intense passions of revenge have been excited in the breasts of the Russian people. Wherever General Denikin's authority could reach, protection was always accorded to the Jewish population, and strenuous efforts were made by his officers to prevent reprisals and to punish those guilty of them. So much was this the case that the Petlurist propaganda against General Denikin denounced him as the Protector of the Jews. The Misses Healy, nieces of Mr. Tim Healy, in relating their personal experiences in Kieff, have declared that to their knowledge on more than one occasion officers who committed offences against Jews were reduced to the ranks and sent out of the city to the front. But the hordes of brigands by whom the whole vast expanse of the Russian Empire is becoming infested do not hesitate to gratify their lust for blood and for revenge at the expense of the innocent Jewish population whenever an opportunity occurs. The brigand Makhno, the hordes of Petlura and of Gregorieff, who signalised their every success by the most brutal massacres, everywhere found among the half-stupefied, half-infuriated population an eager response to anti-Semitism in its worst and foulest forms.

The fact that in many cases Jewish interests and Jewish places of worship are excepted by the Bolsheviks from their universal hostility has tended more and more to associate the Jewish race in Russia with the villainies which are now being perpetrated. This is an injustice on millions of helpless people, most of whom are themselves sufferers from the revolutionary regime. It becomes, therefore, specially important to foster and develop any strongly-marked Jewish movement which leads directly away from these fatal associations. And it is here that Zionism has such a deep significance for the whole world at the present time.

A Home for the Jews.
Zionism offers the third sphere to the political conceptions of the Jewish race. In violent contrast to international communism, it presents to the Jew a national idea of a commanding character. It has fallen to the British Government, as the result of the conquest of Palestine, to have the opportunity and the responsibility of securing for the Jewish race all over the world a home and a centre of national life. The statesmanship and historic sense of Mr. Balfour were prompt to seize this opportunity. Declarations have been made which have irrevocably decided the policy of Great Britain. The fiery energies of Dr. Weissmann, the leader, for practical purposes, of the Zionist project, backed by many of the most prominent British Jews, and supported by the full authority of Lord Allenby, are all directed to achieving the success of this inspiring movement.

Of course, Palestine is far too small to accommodate more than a fraction of the Jewish race, nor do the majority of national Jews wish to go there. But if, as may well happen, there should be created in our own lifetime by the banks of the Jordan a Jewish State under the protection of the British Crown, which might comprise three or four millions of Jews, an event would have occurred in the history of the world which would, from every point of view, be beneficial, and would be especially in harmony with the truest interests of the British Empire.

Zionism has already become a factor in the political convulsions of Russia, as a powerful competing influence in Bolshevik circles with the international communistic system. Nothing could be more significant than the fury with which Trotsky has attacked the Zionists generally, and Dr. Weissmann in particular. The cruel penetration of his mind leaves him in no doubt that his schemes of a world-wide communistic State under Jewish domination are directly thwarted and hindered by this new ideal, which directs the energies and the hopes of Jews in every land towards a simpler, a truer, and a far more attainable goal. The struggle which is now beginning between the Zionist and Bolshevik Jews is little less than a struggle for the soul of the Jewish people.

Duty of Loyal Jews.
It is particularly important in these circumstances that the national Jews in every country who are loyal to the land of their adoption should come forward on every occasion, as many of them in England have already done, and take a prominent part in every measure for combating the Bolshevik conspiracy. In this way they will be able to vindicate the honour of the Jewish name and make it clear to all the world that the Bolshevik movement is not a Jewish movement, but is repudiated vehemently by the great mass of the Jewish race.

But a negative resistance to Bolshevism in any field is not enough. Positive and practicable alternatives are needed in the moral as well as in the social sphere; and in building up with the utmost possible rapidity a Jewish national centre in Palestine which may become not only a refuge to the oppressed from the unhappy lands of Central Europe, but which will also be a symbol of Jewish unity and the temple of Jewish glory, a task is presented on which many blessings rest.

[Banana]

http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/conspiracy_theories.png

[banjojambo9]

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11

[raiha]

Sandra and Slacker921 for the love of God, people who come on here with a conversation are not trolls. I'm still getting new people join my meet-up in Auckland and i'm pretty sure they are not Government agents or Obama supporters. Its great to discuss ideas on here. That is how we get to know one another. The tendency you Americans have to slag off anyone who doesn't agree with you or who does something you don't think they should do is frightening at most and perplexing at least.

[VoteForRonPaul]

Hey, look. I have no problem with people talking their minds and opinions. But these theories are just... So out there, so... Stupid as they can all easily be disputed that people just get... Angry when they disprove a theory and the person just comes back repetetively and says, "WELL WHAT ABOUT THE BOMBS IN THE TOWERS? WHAT ABOUT THE BOMBS IN THE TOWERS?" Furthermore, they're not thought out at all. Third, these people go around claiming that their theory is true without any definite proof but rather just speculation when they should be sayying that it is what they believe. Not what's absolutely true when they don't have the facts to back it up. Third, these people go around claiming that their theory is true without any definite proof but rather just speculation when they should be sayying that it is what they believe. Not what's absolutely true when they don't have the facts to back it up
This speech is so naive!



Third, these people go around claiming that their theory is true without any definite proof but rather just speculation when they should be sayying that it is what they believe. Not what's absolutely true when they don't have the facts to back it up.

Does this mean that your beloved G.W.B and FOX provided you with a definite proof of the official story of 9/11 and they backed it up with facts??? :rolleyes:

If that is true then please show it to me ;)

[VoteForRonPaul]

oh boy.. another new account posting conspiracy theory stuff.
I just wonder how much the GOP is paying these people to come and destroy the Ron Paul movement? That's my conspiracy theory for the day.

donumabdeo.. Are you donating to the High Tide airtime (http://alcpac.chipin.com/the-high-tide-airtime)?
And why you would not say that the GOP(oops the CIA) is paying you to come here and stop the truth from coming out :rolleyes:

Your loyalty to Ron Paul is in question and it is considered another conspiracy theory unless proven otherwise!

[Patriot123]

I didn't say Israel did it.

You read the 9/11 Commission Report....good for you. That's important. Now spend about a year reading all the other available literature on 9/11 and get back to me. Start by looking into the supposed airport surveillance video of the supposed hijackers, since it's a topic on which you've previously shown yourself to be misinformed.:cool:

Oh, well if you've read so much literature on the issue, I'm sure you could recommend a few books to me without quickly going to find them on Google, mhmm? :)

[Patriot123]

Did the Israelis attack the USS LIberty? What proof do you have that Israelis did not intend to kill everyone on board and blame the attack on Egypt to aid the cause of American intervention in the middle east?

I like how you 'truthers' tend to always jump to the oddest conclusions. The official story was that the USS Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian ship. The conspiracy is that they did it to stop intelligence from leaking. Tell me, why would they need to stop Americans from getting intelligence if there's no way the enemy would have even found out about it? The Israelis are good friends with us, mhmm? So why would we give up information that we pick up? The theory has no substance. And, of course, then you're going to go to the famous, "well still" argument. "Well, still they attacked the ship because they knew it was." Your facts? Israeli ships flew over the ship close enough to see the flag. Right? See, what happens is that during a time of war, people scramble. Communication is scrambled. They initially thought that the ship was Egyptian, either had guys fly over or they just flew over for whatever reason, and obviously it was a case of not just mistaken-identity but of war. And then you're going to tell me that, "Oh, but the guys in the planes who were attacking it could see the flag while they were bombing it!" Untrue. If you're flying in to attack a warship, you don't exactly look for a flag... You look for the best place to drop the damn bomb. Similar incidents, if I'm not mistaken, have happened. Tell me, what would be the motive? What? Was there even an attack on the enemies at the time after said intelligence was supposedly leaked to the USS Liberty? Let me guess. It was called off, right? So then they bombed an American ship and put their relations with the US on the line for an attack on the enemy just to call it off? Doesn't seem very plausible or intelligent :/

[Patriot123]

I am sorry i didnt mean to offend. I was just interested to know your opinion .have you done any research on this incident ?

Oh, no. I'm sorry. I just thought you were another one of those, eh... 'People' that go around the forum spreading whatnot or whatever :P Sorry for that.

[Patriot123]

<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRfhUezbKLw Mossad surveillance team made quite a public spectacle of themselves on 9-11

That guy at 2:27... WHAT is he talking about? We're a corrosive force... Um... Because we believe in a G-d? So Christianity is also a corrosive force? I think that guy needs medical attention, and quickly.

[Patriot123]

This speech is so naive!



Does this mean that your beloved G.W.B and FOX provided you with a definite proof of the official story of 9/11 and they backed it up with facts??? :rolleyes:

If that is true then please show it to me ;)

-Elaborate. Don't just call my post naive unless you can define the word properly and back your statement up with facts.

-No, actually I got all of my research over a four year period from hundreds of different sources ;)

-Show what to you? The facts? If so, might I ask if you are dyslexic?

[Uncle Emanuel Watkins]

Conspiracies are nothing new in the world, they have existed in every government since the beginning of time. Just look at how Julius Caesar was assassinated for instance. Conspiracy just means people working together for something bad. If it helps, just call it a "bad guys working together" theory in your own mind and maybe you will have an easier time reading the theory.

Instead of judging a conspiracy theory based on the thought, "Naaaah they wouldn't do something like that, they wear suits, and graduated from H-aaaah-vard or Yale", consider whether the theory itself carries an idea in it which cannot be disproved. (ie: the towers fell unnaturally, the Federal Reserve can create money out of nothing and is not a branch of the government, the name of the FR is a deception, masonry is bad, etc.) Conspiracies happen every day all over the world.

P.S. Bigfoot, aliens, Lochness monster, are not real in my personal opinion.

The reason we need to keep tyrants from coming up our driveways onto our property is because we don't have the power to prove that such evil people would kill our dog and her 5 puppies, blow up and burn our children while calling our Church a military compound even though they did shoot our dog and her 5 puppies, blow up and burn our children while calling our Church a military compound.
It isn't a matter of beleiving in a conspiracy but a matter of deciding whether we are going to side with a tyranny that is blinded by legal precedents or if we are going to side with the people who get victimized as a result.

[VoteForRonPaul]

Does this mean that your beloved G.W.B and FOX provided you with a definite proof of the official story of 9/11 and they backed it up with facts??? :rolleyes:



-No, actually I got all of my research over a four year period from hundreds of different sources ;)

You might be lying to prove your points but if that is true then let me tell that you have wasted four years of your life! :cool:

[rbu]

Most people don't believe theories because they simply don't want to believe the people they entrust with power could do such things. They watch or read them with a closed mind explaining away every piece of evidence before it even has time to sink in.

I've done more research than I would've liked to on 9/11. Because I have an open mind, I could see holes in the "official" report before I even did any research on the opposite side of things. If there were no holes then I wouldn't have continued researching the other side. The other side has many theories that has holes also. They, at least, lay out the evidence for you to review where as the gov. still refuses to release all their information. The most secure building in the world with hundreds of cameras all around it and yet they only release 5 frames of ONE video. That alone should make anyone with an open mind suspicious.

The key to 9/11 is WTC7 and the pentagon. If you have done the research and still honestly believe 7 collapsed because of a few small fires and a passenger plane crashed into the pentagon then my conclusion is you can't possibly have an open mind. You simply can't believe your gov. would do such a horrible thing to it's people.

The official report states the towers were brought down because of jet fuel fires that melted the steel that eventually caused the collapse. No jet hit WTC7. If the fires in WTC7 were because of debris from the towers then I would like to know how the jet fuel got transferred also. Additionally I would ask any official believer to attempt a test of their own.

If you have a grate in your fireplace, get some kerosene (that's what jet fuel is made of) and try to get the fire hot enough to even be able to slightly warp the grate. I don't mean melt it, just hot enough to disfigure it in any way. I will tell you now that you simply cannot do it. If you actually try it, see the results and still believe fires were the cause then please don't come out of your house because you're a danger to society.

[Mach]

Patriot123, you are the last one on the list to be considered impartial. You are here more for personal reasons than anything else, for someone that thinks that crazy conspiracy stuff is so silly, you sure do jump into the middle of the subject on a regular basis around here, I forgot..... how old are you again? 15yo

[Patriot123]

You might be lying to prove your points but if that is true then let me tell that you have wasted four years of your life! :cool:

Not entirely. I like to think of it as a hobby, really.

[Patriot123]

Patriot123, you are the last one on the list to be considered impartial. You are here more for personal reasons than anything else, for someone that thinks that crazy conspiracy stuff is so silly, you sure do jump into the middle of the subject on a regular basis around here, I forgot..... how old are you again? 15yo

Yes, actually. And thank you for the kind comments :cool:

[sratiug]

I like how you 'truthers' tend to always jump to the oddest conclusions. The official story was that the USS Liberty was mistaken for an Egyptian ship. The conspiracy is that they did it to stop intelligence from leaking. Tell me, why would they need to stop Americans from getting intelligence if there's no way the enemy would have even found out about it? The Israelis are good friends with us, mhmm? So why would we give up information that we pick up? The theory has no substance. And, of course, then you're going to go to the famous, "well still" argument. "Well, still they attacked the ship because they knew it was." Your facts? Israeli ships flew over the ship close enough to see the flag. Right? See, what happens is that during a time of war, people scramble. Communication is scrambled. They initially thought that the ship was Egyptian, either had guys fly over or they just flew over for whatever reason, and obviously it was a case of not just mistaken-identity but of war. And then you're going to tell me that, "Oh, but the guys in the planes who were attacking it could see the flag while they were bombing it!" Untrue. If you're flying in to attack a warship, you don't exactly look for a flag... You look for the best place to drop the damn bomb. Similar incidents, if I'm not mistaken, have happened. Tell me, what would be the motive? What? Was there even an attack on the enemies at the time after said intelligence was supposedly leaked to the USS Liberty? Let me guess. It was called off, right? So then they bombed an American ship and put their relations with the US on the line for an attack on the enemy just to call it off? Doesn't seem very plausible or intelligent :/

Are you pretending to debunk this entire video?
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7267134620652018859 (Loss of Liberty)
Becaue you haven't done a very good job. It is obvious from this outstanding presentation that the Israelis and our White House wanted the Liberty to sink, for whatever reason. And this event proves that a murderous attack can be pulled off in broad daylight and covered up by our corrupt system. It was called off only after heroic efforts of the crew kept it afloat long enough that everybody in the hemisphere had heard about it already and new it was an American ship. Even then the US Navy left it to sink for hours afterward before reluctantly rescuing the crew.

There were mutiple accounts of Israelis radioing back that it was an American ship.
The assumption is the attack was to be blamed on the Egyptians to get the US involved in the war in the middle east.