Do you think Ron Paul supporters can come off as jerks?

[ZzzImAsleep]

It's true that anyone can come off as a jerk, but I have found that Ron Paul supporters tend to be labeled as such semi-consistently. I'm not saying that every time a Ron Paul supporter speaks that he is being a jerk, or that where there is no doubt that a supporter is acting like a jerk that his attitude is not warranted.

Regardless of how or why a Paul supporter acts like a jerk, does this behavior hurt the cause? Let's face facts, I think many of us here have gotten in "heated debates" with other people about politics in the past year, whether it be family members or faceless internet message board members.

These "debates" are often filled with, (how can I say this without being a jerk.....) ignorant people.....(Crap.....I didn't do a very good job.)

So, how can the message of freedom be spread when you have to cut through so many layers of crap? Is it an inevitable fact of life for a Ron Paul supporter that being a jerk is an invaluable tool, or is there a more harmonious way to achieve the message?

I would love to hear what everyone has to say on this subject. :)

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

listen to Ron Paul handle ignorant jerks and you'll know exactly what to do.

[forsmant]

I am a jerk.

[Slutter McGee]

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

It is good in that it is a testament to their determination and their commitment to their ideals. But a large number of Ron Paul supporters are complete assholes, or at least a large enough number to give the rest of us a bad name.

There can often be a thin line between being passionate and being a jerk. Way too many Paul supporters have crossed the line.

I have been a Paul supporter since I found out he was running. I once read a Walter Williams article mentioning him. However, I have not posted on these boards, partially due to the self-righteous pedomorphic little people on these forums. Frankly, I don't want to be called a troll for saying that I don't believe in an evil conspiracy by the banks to bring about the NWO. Or for commenting that their are subjects I disagree with the good doctor on.

Paul's supporters are the biggest reason for the success of the campaign and for the ultimate defeat of it. They preach the Paul message to every hill and valley, but when somebody disagrees godforbid they are a neo-con puppet and worthless sheep. On these forums they are a huckster spy or a neocon MSM troll.

It is damn ridiculous, and frankly, if I didn't believe so strongly in the message, all you assholes would run me off to a different candidate.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

[Sandra]

McCain people are humongous jerks!

[robskicks]

arrogant? sure... because we know we have the best candidate.
jerks? nah.

[TruthAtLast]

On the surface it could hurt the cause, but as long as the message of truth is being spread, then even a jerk will get through to someone.

I think the problem comes from:

Frustration. Sometimes we just don't see how people don't "get it". Or worse yet, when they defend the very people that STEAL from them and control their whole life. It can be very frustrating trying to explain logic to someone who refuses to accept it either out of spite, ignorance, loyalty, or stubborness. Some people are so content or afraid or disenfranchised that even if they believe you, they don't care. They actually think the Government will "save" them or they trust that "much smarter" people are working on the problem.


Anger. It is one thing to try to convince someone who doesn't understand. But it is another thing to try to convince someone that we know is part of the problem. They aren't ignorant. They KNOW the problem and want "in on it". These people are perpetuating it ON PURPOSE.

I've talked to people about the various ways that the country is becoming a socialist state and I swear to you I've had people say, "So, what's wrong with Socialism? I think a One World Government would be great. We'd live in a much more peaceful world." Well F**K me with a broomstick. It is hard to respond to that level of stupidity. At that point, I have to just concede that some people are really tweaked in their mindset and I need to move on to people that actually have a rational thought in their head.


When you try to convince someone of the truth, inevitably they must come to the realization that they've been living in a dream world and everything they assumed was true isn't. Those that resist this epiphany will come up with the easiest counter argument they can which is: You're a radical, or crazy, or a conspiracy theorist. This marginalization and dismissal of truth is our single BIGGEST obstacle. It is of course perpetuated by MSM as the typical person would say "if this were all true, why don't I hear about it on the news? Someone would do something."

In response to the confrontation with this level of blind ignorance, many Ron Paul supporters get upset, frustrated, and angry..... and soon venture into the realm of "jerk".

[amy31416]

PISS OFF YOU COMMIE! U HATE FREEDOM! ENJOY UR FEMA CAMP! EVRYTHING U KNO IS RONG!

RON PAUL FTW '08

/sarcasm.

Yes.

[Truth Warrior]

We're all ignorant, just about different things. :)

[Knightskye]

Some can, but I think that's a side-effect of all crap Paul has to go through - mostly the media.

[brandon]

Do you think Ron Paul supporters can come off as jerks?


Only when they sound like collectivists. ;)

[Buzz]

It can be hard not to come off as a jerk when you care and you're trying to teach a stranger who doesn't that 1+1=2.

[d03boy]

all republicans are jerks or they keep their mouths shut becuase they realize they dont know what they're talking about. yes, I generalize

[allyinoh]

Is this a rhetorical question? ;)

I think some can but like a previous poster said a majority of it comes from anger and frustration.

Although you can look around this board here and some people will answer your question for you.

[TruthAtLast]

Frankly, I don't want to be called a troll for saying that I don't believe in an evil conspiracy by the banks to bring about the NWO.

I think there is room in the Movement for anyone who believes in Freedom and the Constitution. The fact that the Banking cartel has a well documented long-term goal for power and wealth is not new, but acknowledging this isn't a prerequisite for joining the Revolution. Mostly it just serves as a backdrop of context for the reasons why our liberties are being eroded and how we got to where we are.


Or for commenting that their are subjects I disagree with the good doctor on.

I also don't agree with Ron Paul on every single issue but for the over-arching issues that often affect all others, we are on the same page.


Paul's supporters are the biggest reason for the success of the campaign and for the ultimate defeat of it. They preach the Paul message to every hill and valley, but when somebody disagrees godforbid they are a neo-con puppet and worthless sheep. On these forums they are a huckster spy or a neocon MSM troll.

Though I do agree that people overreact sometimes, I don't think that if we were all just a little "nicer" that we'd be sitting with 1200 delegates right now.

There are lots of reasons that we haven't been more successful. Some have to do with Ron Paul himself including is availability to campaign and fund raise or maybe even how he frames his message. Some reasons have to do with the management of the Presidential Campaign itself. There are probably some reasons that do relate to overzealous supporters. But the largest reason is simply the obstacles we are up against. We are swimming against the current and are so far down stream that it could take a long time and an amazing amount of effort to reach our goal.


BTW - welcome Slutter.

[Rhys]

It's true that anyone can come off as a jerk, but I have found that Ron Paul supporters tend to be labeled as such semi-consistently. I'm not saying that every time a Ron Paul supporter speaks that he is being a jerk, or that where there is no doubt that a supporter is acting like a jerk that his attitude is not warranted.

Regardless of how or why a Paul supporter acts like a jerk, does this behavior hurt the cause? Let's face facts, I think many of us here have gotten in "heated debates" with other people about politics in the past year, whether it be family members or faceless internet message board members.

These "debates" are often filled with, (how can I say this without being a jerk.....) ignorant people.....(Crap.....I didn't do a very good job.)

So, how can the message of freedom be spread when you have to cut through so many layers of crap? Is it an inevitable fact of life for a Ron Paul supporter that being a jerk is an invaluable tool, or is there a more harmonious way to achieve the message?

I would love to hear what everyone has to say on this subject. :)

yes.


how can I say this without being a jerk.....) ignorant people.....(Crap.....I didn't do a very good job.)

you can't. that's the problem.

If they are sheeple, then be their shepard, not their wolf.

[aravoth]

all republicans are jerks or they keep their mouths shut becuase they realize they dont know what they're talking about. yes, I generalize

Wow, exactly how I feel about democrats.

[phree]

It's true that anyone can come off as a jerk, but I have found that Ron Paul supporters tend to be labeled as such semi-consistently. I'm not saying that every time a Ron Paul supporter speaks that he is being a jerk, or that where there is no doubt that a supporter is acting like a jerk that his attitude is not warranted.

Regardless of how or why a Paul supporter acts like a jerk, does this behavior hurt the cause? Let's face facts, I think many of us here have gotten in "heated debates" with other people about politics in the past year, whether it be family members or faceless internet message board members.

These "debates" are often filled with, (how can I say this without being a jerk.....) ignorant people.....(Crap.....I didn't do a very good job.)

So, how can the message of freedom be spread when you have to cut through so many layers of crap? Is it an inevitable fact of life for a Ron Paul supporter that being a jerk is an invaluable tool, or is there a more harmonious way to achieve the message?

I would love to hear what everyone has to say on this subject. :)

Yes I believe a lot of people have lost their cool while promoting Dr. Paul. This is unfortunate, and does hurt us I think, but it's also understandable. The vehemence that Dr. Paul's detractors show is scary. I also post on a mostly non-political forum that does allow any topic and there are some extremely hostile people there. I don't understand why they get so worked up about the gold standard and the Constitution. It's as if we were suggesting returning to the dark ages.

So yes, but you are all forgiven. But try hard not to lower yourselves to their level.

[brianewart]

Regardless of how or why a Paul supporter acts like a jerk, does this behavior hurt the cause? Let's face facts, I think many of us here have gotten in "heated debates" with other people about politics in the past year, whether it be family members or faceless internet message board members.

You catch more flies with sugar...

Murray Sabrin's campaign has tilted to the jerky-side, and the NJ GOP abandoned him.

[yongrel]

Yes. There is a vocal minority that has made itself very conspicuous this campaign that feels that a combination of abrasiveness, condescension, alarmism, fear mongering, and sentence fragments, is a strategy for success.

And I am also a jerk.

[slamhead]

Well when you cannot argue the issues then attack the person. This is why people label us jerks because they are clueless and cannot back up their beliefs.

[jyakulis]

the truth hurts i guess.

doesn't mean i'm going to stop preaching it till they wake the hell up.

[Broadlighter]

Most of us here agree on certain premises, but individually we all understand them differently.

When I first heard Ron Paul speak in the debates, something came uncorked within me and I suspect the same thing happened to other supporters. It was an incredible relief to know there was a candidate for president, I could positively identify with. Such relief can give you an emotional high that can really challenge your judgement and good sense, especially when you talk to someone who's never heard of Ron Paul.

In order for us to be credible, we have to live by the principles of liberty and peaceful co-existence. Getting in someone's face doesn't give that person any freedom, nor is it a peaceful experience. It doesn't matter what the message is.

These ideals should not be looked at as just goals to be achieved by our political process, but operating principles. Follow Maybury's laws: "Do all you agreed to do and don't encroach on other persons or their property." Ron Paul knows about them and practices them consistently.

It was very interesting that during one of the Fox debates, Dr. Paul was asked by one of the hosts to control his supporters over the 9/11 Truth message. What this told me was this Fox News guy beleived that political candidates ought to tell their supporters what to do, just like Fox tells their partisan audience what to do.
Ron Paul correctly told him that he had no right to do that - that's living the message of liberty. Ron Paul reserved the right not to agree with 9/11 truth, but he wouldn't encroach on those who do.

We should look at his example for how we approach people with the liberty message. Give people freedom, give people space to have their own opinions. Educate them, but don't put them down for their ignorance. You can say things, like 'there's another side to this story' and proceed to tell them what they are missing. Freedom works when people agree on something without any coercion involved, even a coercion over ideas.

[Conza88]

YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US.

Just by observing the tense you use... and the account of the post;

- Do you think Ron Paul supporters can come off as jerks?

If you were one of us, the question would be...

Do you think we can sometimes come off as jerks?

[jkm1864]

Jerk no the other supporters are Jerks .... I just want to be Emancipated. I want welfare assholes to stop stealing my money. I want everyone in this country to be fair and get the same treatment. I want to see people succeed by hard work not by getting a hand out or a governmental edge.

[acptulsa]

...or is there a more harmonious way to achieve the message?

Humor.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=87115 More of the humorous ones are toward

the end. Much of the humor is pretty dry, but even dry humor can get under defenses.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=130543

Wish Dr. Paul had a sense of it, but I guess then he wouldn't be Dr. Paul. Even so, we can use it!

[acptulsa]

Yes I believe a lot of people have lost their cool while promoting Dr. Paul. This is unfortunate, and does hurt us I think, but it's also understandable. The vehemence that Dr. Paul's detractors show is scary. I also post on a mostly non-political forum that does allow any topic and there are some extremely hostile people there. I don't understand why they get so worked up about the gold standard and the Constitution. It's as if we were suggesting returning to the dark ages.

So yes, but you are all forgiven. But try hard not to lower yourselves to their level.

I also believe the theory that we are tearing down their illusions, particularly the illusion that they know how the world really works. People will resist that. But regardless of the cause, you are absolutely spot on about the solution.

The other bloggers will judge for themselves whether you or your attacker is the reasonable one. Remember that.

[porcupine]

YOU ARE NOT ONE OF US.

Just by observing the tense you use... and the account of the post;

- Do you think Ron Paul supporters can come off as jerks?

If you were one of us, the question would be...

Do you think we can sometimes come off as jerks?

I quote the above case as a case in point. Yes, some (many) Ron Paul supporters come off as jerks. Downright mean and kooky ones at that, sometimes.

[jason43]

I think a lot of people are dickheads, and I agree with (most of) their views.

To someone who doesn't, yes, I could definately see how they could think that. A lot of people are so goddamn convinced their opinion is the only one that is right, and everyone else "just hasn't seen the facts" or are ignorant to disagree with them.

All the constant conspiracy crap drives me nuts too and keeps new people away.

[constituent]

All the constant conspiracy crap drives me nuts too and keeps new people away.

lol at the irony. our local anti-conspiracy autobot comes out swingin'.

and yes OP, we're all jerks.

[jason43]

lol at the irony. our local anti-conspiracy autobot comes out swingin'.

and yes OP, we're all jerks.

Look at the board man, there isn't a single issue that ISN'T a conspiracy. Its not that someone on here thinks we faked the moon landing or something. Its that people think everything is controlled by some elite alien people who shot RFK 13 times before they contaminated the drinking water with mind altering chemicals in order to make people distracted, created E! television to dumb people down, and blew up the WTC with thousands of pounds of explosives that no one saw people install in the building or shot mystery missles at 450 mph, 15 feet from the impact with the side of the building.

Come on man to the casual person looking over this board, people on here all seem nuts, and god help you if you disagree, because you are just an uninformed sheep...

[Conza88]

Look at the board man, there isn't a single issue that ....

Conventional Wisdom: America is a Democracy.

The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense. - Tom Clancy

I'd say go back to sleep, but I don't think you ever woke up.

Heres some comedy for you. ;) Enjoy.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTfcAyYGg

[Truth Warrior]

Well, some of us here are really into "Freedom, peace and prosperity", but don't necessarily agree with Ron that the Constitution provides an adequate, desirable or workable shepherd's doctrine handbook. Though I gotta admit that compared to the current "statist quo", it certainly looks preferable.

[Charles Wilson]

I do not think any of Ron Paul's supporters are jerks. I do not know the motive of the OP of this thread but I do know that there are folks that have a different agenda trying to silence Ron Paul supporters.

Labels will not stop me from promoting Ron Paul and his message. Call me a nut job, jerk, anti-American, flakey, looney, etc., and I will wear those labels proudly as long as I am associated with Ron Paul and his message.

[acptulsa]

I do not think any of Ron Paul's supporters are jerks. I do not know the motive of the OP of this thread but I do know that there are folks that have a different agenda trying to silence Ron Paul supporters.

Labels will not stop me from promoting Ron Paul and his message. Call me a nut job, jerk, anti-American, flakey, looney, etc., and I will wear those labels proudly as long as I am associated with Ron Paul and his message.

Well, the OP didn't say "are jerks" but "come off as jerks". Anyone who is adamant about their position can do that.

Goldwater had to defend himself similarly, after all: "Extremism in the defense of Liberty is no vice."

[kahless]

It's true that anyone can come off as a jerk, but I have found that Ron Paul supporters tend to be labeled as such semi-consistently. ..............

If you listen to the MSM and Hollywood all Conservatives, Republicans, Libertarians and people of faith are extremist jerks regardless of what is coming out of their mouth at the time.

[Roxi]

PISS OFF YOU COMMIE! U HATE FREEDOM! ENJOY UR FEMA CAMP! EVRYTHING U KNO IS RONG!

RON PAUL FTW '08

/sarcasm.

Yes.


thats it... its triple gitmo for you ;)

[Catatonic]

Yes, Yes, and Yes.

It is good in that it is a testament to their determination and their commitment to their ideals. But a large number of Ron Paul supporters are complete assholes, or at least a large enough number to give the rest of us a bad name.

There can often be a thin line between being passionate and being a jerk. Way too many Paul supporters have crossed the line.

I have been a Paul supporter since I found out he was running. I once read a Walter Williams article mentioning him. However, I have not posted on these boards, partially due to the self-righteous pedomorphic little people on these forums. Frankly, I don't want to be called a troll for saying that I don't believe in an evil conspiracy by the banks to bring about the NWO. Or for commenting that their are subjects I disagree with the good doctor on.

Paul's supporters are the biggest reason for the success of the campaign and for the ultimate defeat of it. They preach the Paul message to every hill and valley, but when somebody disagrees godforbid they are a neo-con puppet and worthless sheep. On these forums they are a huckster spy or a neocon MSM troll.

It is damn ridiculous, and frankly, if I didn't believe so strongly in the message, all you assholes would run me off to a different candidate.

Sincerely,

Slutter McGee

If you're going to base your opinion of a candidate's supporters by the members of their respective forums, then by far Ron Paul has by far the most open minded and accepting supporters of any candidate. Good luck joining any other candidate's forum and mentioning Ron Paul in anything other than a negative connotation without getting IP banned. Especially among the republicans.

We do have a few mccain, obama, etc supporters here, and while we'll argue with them about the pitfalls of socialism, they don't get flamed too much as long as they keep it civil.

The line is drawn when they pretend to be Ron Paul supporters and then try to convince us to give up on Dr. Paul and vote for their guy instead. I don't think this is too unreasonable.

[Jesubub]

Yes. There were several at the Senatorial District 14 Convention in Austin on 3/29 who didn't "mind their manners". Everyone loses when you try to shout down an opponent, whether from the back of a stadium or face-to-face. We need to be more tactful to be better representatives of Paul and our message. We should learn when to leave emotion out of debate.

[acptulsa]

We should learn when to leave emotion out of debate.

Actually, if you can learn to be passionate and eloquent at the same time, you'll find yourself winning converts wholesale.

Neat trick if you can do it. But I agree about the shouting down. No success in that.

[garyallen59]

smugness

[scotto2008]

Jealousy plays a role. People see that we're fired up and devoted, and they feel left out because they're trapped by their ignorance and inertia.

So when they see a bunch of smiling people jumping up and down shouting with signs, they think, "what a bunch of jerks."

[amy31416]

Actually, if you can learn to be passionate and eloquent at the same time, you'll find yourself winning converts wholesale.

Neat trick if you can do it. But I agree about the shouting down. No success in that.

Word. That's a winning combination. That's how Reagan got into the White House.

[Truth Warrior]

Word. That's a winning combination. That's how Reagan got into the White House.
Or was it simply because peanut farmer Carter was such a goober ( pun intended )? :)

[acptulsa]

Or was it simply because peanut farmer Carter was such a goober ( pun intended )? :)

There were eight or nine guys in that Republican primary contest including G.H.W. Bush and John Anderson. The MSM played Reagan down and said he couldn't win, but he did. I think the lady's quite correct.

[Truth Warrior]

There were eight or nine guys in that Republican primary contest including G.H.W. Bush and John Anderson. The MSM played Reagan down and said he couldn't win, but he did. I think the lady's quite correct. You may just be correct about the GOP primaries, etc. America was pretty ticked about Carter though, as I recall.

Thanks! :)

[ZzzImAsleep]

I do not think any of Ron Paul's supporters are jerks. I do not know the motive of the OP of this thread but I do know that there are folks that have a different agenda trying to silence Ron Paul supporters.

Labels will not stop me from promoting Ron Paul and his message. Call me a nut job, jerk, anti-American, flakey, looney, etc., and I will wear those labels proudly as long as I am associated with Ron Paul and his message.

The reason I posted this thread was because I have seen Ron Paul supporters on forums other than this one who act like jerks. It makes me take a second look at myself because I don't want to appear to be a jerk. You can't get someone interested in a message if they think you are being a jerk, no matter how compelling that message is.

[DeadtoSin]

I have met a decent amount of RP jerks. They don't really know that just because you have the freedom to say whatever you want, it isn't always best to exercise that freedom. Its kind of a sad thing, but I had some people in my convention that were turned off because of the arrogance of one of our supporters.

[LiveFree79]

The reason I posted this thread was because I have seen Ron Paul supporters on forums other than this one who act like jerks. It makes me take a second look at myself because I don't want to appear to be a jerk. You can't get someone interested in a message if they think you are being a jerk, no matter how compelling that message is.

Bullshit. I'm a stuanch RP supporter and am very much against the Federal Reserve. I've engaged in debates with others who supposedly agree with RP's ideas and would support him. However, I've been labeled unAmerican, unPatriotic, a socialist, a communist, a conspiracy theorist every time I eloquently pose my views and ideas regarding the Fed , the current banking system etc. I think most RP supporters are simply tired of people labeling false status quo accusations at them. They have every right to defend themselves and at times go on the offensive when bearing the brunt of criticism. The conspiracy theorist one is really hard to swallow. It's such a stupid term and so easily makes others question you when you are called one. Just annoying.

[Mahkato]

I think the problem is multifaceted.


A high percentage of Ron Paul supporters are new to this and can't speak and hear themselves from the other person's perspective at the same time.
The learning curve is extremely high for the Ron Paul platform. It's a paradigm shift for many people. "Rethinking what the role of government should be" does not come easily to those who have been dependent on government since they were born.
The first time a person comes into contact with a "conspiracy theory" or something they have absolutely no knowledge on (NAU, Federal Reserve, etc.), they recoil. If the person presenting the new information is in any way condescending or otherwise crass, the message is lost forever.
etc.

[Mahkato]

Also, the only difference between a conspiracy theory and a scandal is the number of people who believe it to be true.

[Banana]

I wonder if this has to do with us believing that US is a nation of sheep... (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=131414)

[acptulsa]

I think the problem is multifaceted.


A high percentage of Ron Paul supporters are new to this and can't speak and hear themselves from the other person's perspective at the same time.
The learning curve is extremely high for the Ron Paul platform. It's a paradigm shift for many people. "Rethinking what the role of government should be" does not come easily to those who have been dependent on government since they were born.
The first time a person comes into contact with a "conspiracy theory" or something they have absolutely no knowledge on (NAU, Federal Reserve, etc.), they recoil. If the person presenting the new information is in any way condescending or otherwise crass, the message is lost forever.
etc.


Welcome LiveFree79. I think your point that we get attacked and self-defense is a natural instinct is well taken. I really like this list, too. I refer back to an earlier post I made about humor. Humor gets in under defenses. If you can make a person laugh, this helps get them on your side. It points up the contradictions (which is where humor lies) and informs too.

[Charles Wilson]

The reason I posted this thread was because I have seen Ron Paul supporters on forums other than this one who act like jerks. It makes me take a second look at myself because I don't want to appear to be a jerk. You can't get someone interested in a message if they think you are being a jerk, no matter how compelling that message is.

+1 :)

[scotto2008]

Libertarians had a problem they called "libertarian macho flash" if I recall correctly.

If you know you're right and others are misinformed, it is possible for the ego to get carried away.

Then when the ego is bruised by the same misinformed people, its reaction may be to lash out and become self-righteous.

Me, I have no ego. I have obtained Bhudda consciousness. So don't f**k with me.

[amy31416]

Libertarians had a problem they called "libertarian macho flash" if I recall correctly.

If you know you're right and others are misinformed, it is possible for the ego to get carried away.

Then when the ego is bruised by the same misinformed people, its reaction may be to lash out and become self-righteous.

Me, I have no ego. I have obtained Bhudda consciousness. So don't f**k with me.

Buddha. :)

[acptulsa]

Me, I have no ego. I have obtained Bhudda consciousness. So don't f**k with me.

Good stuff. See how well that works? I bet you were ready to flame scotto 'till you read that!

[amy31416]

Good stuff. See how well that works? I bet you were ready to flame scotto 'till you read that!

Hahahahaha...I wasn't going to say anything until I read that. ;) Funny stuff.

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

My observations tell me most people consider "jerks" as people who don't say what they want them to say or treat them like they want to be treated. It's all about control.
"This person did this when I wanted him to do that. What a jerk."

I'm a proud jerk, a$$hole, and prick. I do what I believe whether it satisfies someone else or not.

When your level of consciousness is more evolved you simply cannot effectively communicate with someone who chooses to be ignorant. And preaching helps nothing. You just have to do what you do and hopefully people will wake up after they've experienced enough suffering or start listening to the still voice within

[DeadtoSin]

Yeah, being a proud jerk just makes you a proud jerk who loses every election. I'd like to retain my principles, but keep my MOUTH SHUT when prudent, and win. It sort of seems like some Ron Paul supporters can't handle that. You guys believe in free speech, as I do, however a lot of you can't exercise your other right not to speak constantly and alienate people.

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

Until the truth wants to be heard, the truth-teller will be a prick who alienates.
See the New Testament for details.

[DeadtoSin]

So we're comparing you, who has openly said you are proud of being a jerk, to Christ who (whether or not you believe him to be God) lived humbly.

Ok, next example?

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

So we're comparing you, who has openly said you are proud of being a jerk, to Christ who (whether or not you believe him to be God) lived humbly.

Ok, next example?

Am I not pleasing you? I guess I'm a jerk.
I'd massage your feelings if I could so you don't think I am, since what you think is how I value myself.

[DeadtoSin]

It isn't that you aren't pleasing me, its just that you used a ridiculous example and that you seem proud to alienate people who might just need a little bit of extra talking to convince them. Some people aren't as open minded as us, so you need to learn some patience. I don't care if you please me, because I'm not interested in what you've got to say.

[diesirae]

It isn't that you aren't pleasing me, its just that you used a ridiculous example and that you seem proud to alienate people who might just need a little bit of extra talking to convince them. Some people aren't as open minded as us, so you need to learn some patience. I don't care if you please me, because I'm not interested in what you've got to say.

Yeah -- part of the "Revolution" message is that some people believe that they don't have to convince others that they're right; that they can just wave their flag, and shout slogans into the faces of those who disagree. That this is, somehow, a movement which doesn't need popular support, and can deride those who don't understand with impunity.

Well, I hate to break it to these people but that not how Revolutions work; a revolution, like the American Revolution, occurs when people realize a truth and rally to support it. The part of the revolution that follow -- the battles, the rallying cries, the flag-waving -- came after.

Think about it this way -- this is a revolutionary movement, just like the American Revolution was a revolutionary movement. Currently, we're at the stage where revolutionaries talked to people, printed pamphlets, and won the people over to their side. However, some people are treating it like we're already at the full-scale war part of the revolution -- where everyone who disagrees is a "Redcoat" and should be put down with the most extreme prejudice possible.

If that was how the Founding Fathers started their revolution, this would still be British North America. Let's not let it be how this revolution starts.

[DeadtoSin]

Yeah, I'm sure that the Founding Fathers just got together and started shooting the British and dumping tea overboard. They probably took no time talking to people and convincing them on the terms that they found favorable.

[TruthAtLast]

The American Revolution also had political and influential leaders come together at the Continental Congress. They didn't all agree with each other as we know. Many wanted to negotiate and stall, but they eventually came to a consensus to fight the British. They really didn't need that much support from the actual people. They were representatives of their respective states / platforms. It was really a handful of influential men that decided the fate of a nation.

Our problem is that most of the powerful and influential people in this country are the same people we are fighting against. It makes you wonder if there was a summit of all 3rd parties in the U.S. with structural and regional leaders of each acting as representatives, what would happen. Let's say they sat in a room for a week to discuss where the country is going and how to fix it.

Other than the two largest parties. The 3 next largest is the Libertarian, Constitutional, and Green parties. Then there are a bunch of even smaller parties.

Would be impossible for a coalition to be made to effectively compete for the power to change this country? When is the next Continental Congress or "Revolution Summit" meeting? Count me in. :D

[spacehabitats]

We are different.
In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is in for one heck of a a rough ride.
No one (including me!) wants to believe that the world is controlled by powerful and greedy sociopaths.
When the sitcom/People Magazine/USA Today reality is threatened, our subconscious rebels.

Our nation isn't in peril.
Sure we have problems, but things are still pretty good.
I mean, look at the people in Ethiopia. Now THEY have problems.
George Bush is a good, God-fearing man and a courageous leader.
Obama is a really good-hearted man who wants to find a way for us all to work together to bring the American Dream to everyone, regardless of their religion, gender, or skin color.
If it just weren't for those Democrats/Rebublicans/greedy corporations/labor unions/Islamic terrorists/conservatives/liberals/Right-wingers/Left-wingers/blacks/whites/sexists/racists...
well, we'd have this country back in shape in no time.

So people want to believe we are jerks.
They WANT to believe that these people who refuse to shut up, are jerks.
First of all it isn't cool to be passionate about politics.
And its just plain nuts to feel strongly about someone who no one (i.e. the MSM) pays attention too.

And even when we start to succeed in cutting through the lies of the Matrix, and their world is starting to crumble, do we stop and give them HOPE? No, we continue to relentlessly make sure they understand just how terrible and hopeless their situation is.

We make sure that they have to know all about the Bilderbergers and the truth about 9/11 and how they are going to start putting V-Chips in their babies and how they already have co-opted their family doctor into injecting their kids with mind-destroying vaccines.

Add to that the occasional person who throws snowballs at Sean Hannity or swears at a clueless city clerk in New Hampshire and people have the perfect excuse to view us all as jerks.

Now the MSM comes along to reassure them that it is all a bad dream and that we are all just deluded cultists. And they find a little peace and joy again.

Now how welcome do you think we are going to be if we dare to come back spouting the same message?

Exactly.

[Rhys]

being a prick also makes you a prick. truth telling isn't a must.

don't know you, just sayin

[SeanEdwards]

I know every time I slam a 9/11 truther nut, some emo internet bitch somewhere thinks I'm being a jerk. So the answer to your question is a resounding yes.

[ninepointfive]

I know every time I slam a 9/11 truther nut, some emo internet bitch somewhere thinks I'm being a jerk. So the answer to your question is a resounding yes.

then explain building 7 to me loud and clear so I can hear it.

actually, lets not detract from the subject of the thread. but seriously now, something is very fishy about that day.

[Mr. White]

Ron Paul supporters tend to be caring, outspoken individuals.

They are not always well-versed on the things they are outspoken about. They now find a publicly acceptable outlet in the form of RP's campagin. Rather than ranting and raving on forums and conspiracy theory websites where everyone agrees with them, they must rant and rave to a general population that questions many things they say. The RP supporter becomes enraged that his youtube video is not taken seriously and that his theory about why he doesn't have to pay income tax because their is a fringe on an American flag in a courtroom is laughed at.

The average RP supporter just like the average supporter of every other candidate, finds comfort in group-think. RP supporter groupthink however, while based in some sound economic theory, is also interspersed with delusional legal 'knowledge' and a misguided belief that everything they read on the internet is true.

[Roxi]

well according to my ignore list i do :D

but no saying that ron paul supporters can come off as jerks is like saying do you think that muslims are bad.... EVERY group of people has its jerks or people who come across as one not just ron paul supporters

[Paul.Bearer.of.Injustice]

It isn't that you aren't pleasing me, its just that you used a ridiculous example and that you seem proud to alienate people who might just need a little bit of extra talking to convince them. Some people aren't as open minded as us, so you need to learn some patience. I don't care if you please me, because I'm not interested in what you've got to say.

I'm not "proud" to make enemies or alienate, but if someone doesn't like what I have to say, I don't care. I'm proud to be able to say what I think or feel without fearing hurting someone else's feelings or if they'll "punish" me.
I also don't believe in convincing - just say what you want to say and be done with it.
"Convincing" implies superiority like you know what's better for someone than themselves. It's manipulative.