RP's main objection to going third pary...

[nakor667]

In almost every interview, Ron Paul is asked about running third-party. Time and time again he says there is a bias against 3rd parties and all his time would be spent just trying to get on the ballot....

Can't we help with this? We've got tens of thousands of volunteers nationwide. Why is he still giving this excuse? We could achieve this easily!

[Jeremy]

Running 3rd party would be us inviting Chris Peden into congress in 2 years...

this is an establishment party we're talking about here

let's keep Paul in congress

[nate895]

Because he doesn't have the energy. If he had been on the trail for even a 60 days total in Iowa he'd have won Iowa, and if he had been in New Hampshire for 100 town hall events like McCain, he'd be the presumptive nominee now.

[crazyfingers]

He says that but the Libertarian/Constitution Parties would get him ballot access in all 50 states and they'd nominate him in a heart beat -- if he'd accept. I think he wants to work within the GOP. It really is our best hope to turn this country around.

[I Am Weasel]

If he had been on the trail for even a 60 days total in Iowa he'd have won Iowa, and if he had been in New Hampshire for 100 town hall events like McCain, he'd be the presumptive nominee now.

yup... sad how true this is

[TruthAtLast]

There are probably 4 major reasons:


Ballot access as you point out
Access to debates. If he was ignored and marginalized as a Republican candidate, imagine as an independent or third party.
Money. 20-30 million is amazing but he would need 100-200 million to really compete. This is why he always says that a third party run is more possible for someone like Perot.
Time. As JB has said several times, he just doesn't have the time to campaign the way it would take to really win.

[ultimaonliner]

He says that but the Libertarian/Constitution Parties would get him ballot access in all 50 states and they'd nominate him in a heart beat -- if he'd accept. I think he wants to work within the GOP. It really is our best hope to turn this country around.

Although working through the GOP is a better longer term goal, I think RP continuing his campaigning through a third party is a great for continuing the momentum of awareness of libertarian/Constitutionalist views.

[Feelgood]

I want to reach through the screen and just bitch slap every person that brings up third party/indy run bullshit. GOD DAMN Im so sick of it already. ENOUGH!

[TruthAtLast]

I want to reach through the screen and just bitch slap every person that brings up third party/indy run bullshit. GOD DAMN Im so sick of it already. ENOUGH!

LOL There's no bitch slap smilie?

[mketcher]

Well, as I've said several times in other threads here, I believe one possible scenario is for Bob Barr to become a placeholder candidate for Ron Paul in the
LP. In other words, Barr becomes the LP candidate, and then after the
Republican convention, in which Ron Paul will be marginalized, Barr steps down to vice president and Ron Paul steps in as presidential candidate.

I don't know if this is the strategy, but I first talked about this a couple of months ago, after I heard Barr speak at an LP event, in which this was mentioned, in an offhand way, as a possible strategy. So, I know that Barr is well aware of this as a strategy. At the time I first mentioned this bait and switch strategy as a possibility, Barr wasn't an announced candidate for the LP nomination. He just recently announced.

So, there's still the possibility of a Ron Paul/Bob Barr ticket. But I think it's important for Ron Paul to get as much mileage as he can as a Republican presidential candidate, go to the convention, lobby for the opportunity to speak to the entire convention on national television, get as many delegates there as he can to cheer for him, and cause as much trouble as he can there to disrupt the party and criticize it for abandoning its principles. Then he quits and runs as the LP candidate.

I don't have any inside info that this will happen, but the fact that Barr has now announced gives my theory more credibility.

[nc4rp]

just speculating, But if Jesse ventura ran as independent and asked Ron Paul to be vice president running mate, could Ron Paul remain republican?

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

just speculating, But if Jesse ventura ran as independent and asked Ron Paul to be vice president running mate, could Ron Paul remain republican?

I don't see why not. Only the party could kick him out, but I doubt they would. Did the Republicans expel John Anderson in 1980 when he ran as an independent Republican? I know for a fact the Democrats didn't expel George Wallace in the late '60s and early '70s after his independent (and badly racist) Presidential run.

Ventura sounds very open to running from his interview earlier tonight on Larry King. He just needs the ballot access. If a spontaneous grassroots movement were to emerge to get him on the ballot as an independent in all fifty states, Ventura would be almost certain to run. Then, we could push for Ron Paul to come on as VP.

FYI, Ventura spoke well of Ron Paul briefly in his Larry King interview. He jokingly mentioned Ron Paul being his Vice President as well.

[Kotin]

I don't see why not. Only the party could kick him out, but I doubt they would. Did the Republicans expel John Anderson in 1980 when he ran as an independent Republican? I know for a fact the Democrats didn't expel George Wallace in the late '60s and early '70s after his independent (and badly racist) Presidential run.

Ventura sounds very open to running from his interview earlier tonight on Larry King. He just needs the ballot access. If a spontaneous grassroots movement were to emerge to get him on the ballot as an independent in all fifty states, Ventura would be almost certain to run. Then, we could push for Ron Paul to come on as VP.

FYI, Ventura spoke well of Ron Paul briefly in his Larry King interview. He jokingly mentioned Ron Paul being his Vice President as well.

this is what we should work for, get Ventura ballot access!!!

[Akus]

In almost every interview, Ron Paul is asked about running third-party. Time and time again he says there is a bias against 3rd parties and all his time would be spent just trying to get on the ballot....

Can't we help with this? We've got tens of thousands of volunteers nationwide. Why is he still giving this excuse? We could achieve this easily!

no

[born2drv]

Ron Paul is a radical. And radicals who like to ruffle feathers, speak truth, go against the establishment, and are relative unknowns are almost always ignored.

People have already managed to marginalize him, the same would happen very easily as a third party candidate, especially give his radical status. You and I all love him and know we need his radical ideas to fix this country... but most Americans still think his ideas are just too radical to ever take shape.

Bottom line is, Paul is the best president to ever not be elected, this will not change unfortunately and Paul knows it.

[ryanmkeisling]

You guys saw the Glenn Beck interview last night?...his wheels are turning for sure and his past failure seems to be the only thing holding him back as well as his seat in congress. As principled a man as he is I do not think he has any true loyalty to the GOP, nor should he. He is pragmatic and knows a third party candidate has almost zero chance of winning in a corrupt non-democratic two party system.

[Alex Libman]

If he's not running himself, he should endorse the LP candidate and campaign with him / her.

(go here for details (http://www.lp.org/libertydecides/))

[speciallyblend]

Well, as I've said several times in other threads here, I believe one possible scenario is for Bob Barr to become a placeholder candidate for Ron Paul in the
LP. In other words, Barr becomes the LP candidate, and then after the
Republican convention, in which Ron Paul will be marginalized, Barr steps down to vice president and Ron Paul steps in as presidential candidate.

I don't know if this is the strategy, but I first talked about this a couple of months ago, after I heard Barr speak at an LP event, in which this was mentioned, in an offhand way, as a possible strategy. So, I know that Barr is well aware of this as a strategy. At the time I first mentioned this bait and switch strategy as a possibility, Barr wasn't an announced candidate for the LP nomination. He just recently announced.

So, there's still the possibility of a Ron Paul/Bob Barr ticket. But I think it's important for Ron Paul to get as much mileage as he can as a Republican presidential candidate, go to the convention, lobby for the opportunity to speak to the entire convention on national television, get as many delegates there as he can to cheer for him, and cause as much trouble as he can there to disrupt the party and criticize it for abandoning its principles. Then he quits and runs as the LP candidate.

I don't have any inside info that this will happen, but the fact that Barr has now announced gives my theory more credibility.


sounds good to me. I know who isnt getting my vote;)

[speciallyblend]

no

we have the cards,if the gop fails to nominate ron paul then the gop will lose.
I cannot endorse a candidate that goes opposite of the gop platform . mccain is dead in the water.

Ron Paul 2008 written in stone,the gop is dead,will be dead unless they nominate ron paul.

[Roxi]

LOL There's no bitch slap smilie?


LMAO... someone should definitely make one :D

[SteveMartin]

If Ron Paul announced an independent run with a well-known and respected running mate, we would easily raise $100 million or more from the current grassroots supporters and new "regular joe" supporters coming in to help.

My prediction for today...If he does this with a new campaign team you will also see some MAJOR money coming from very wealthy individuals who will support the campaign in various ways, using their own funds.

[slacker921]

.... My prediction for today...If he does this with a new campaign team you will also see some MAJOR money coming from very wealthy individuals who will support the campaign in various ways, using their own funds.

His comment yesterday about not being Ross Perot (not having deep pockets) and the difficulty involved in running 3rd party indicate that he understands the limitations of both his grassroots and his current campaign staff... and himself. Others have pointed out a lot of reasons why Paul didn't do well in Iowa and NH and it's pretty clear that Paul is ok with the outcome so far but also understands that much, much more would be needed to make a serious 3rd party run to overcome the bias of the media against a 3rd party. He's perfectly fine with just going to the convention and making noise and continuing to nudge the GOP back to its roots.. and keeping his seat.

Gravel and Barr would both have a very tough time getting any media attention at all. And so I don't think Paul will make a 3rd party run with either of them.

Ventura could get the attention but would need a running mate like Paul but I think Ventura would want to bring in a different campaign staff. That might be the sticking point with Paul imho.

[KevinR]

Very slim chance of winning Republican nomination then President

vs

Zero chance of becoming President as third party
loss of 10x more money
Little to no extra tv/debate coverage
etc

hmm

[Kade]

Peden is an asstwat

http://www.chrispeden.org/meetchris.html

[Akus]

we have the cards,if the gop fails to nominate ron paul then the gop will lose.
I cannot endorse a candidate that goes opposite of the gop platform . mccain is dead in the water.

Ron Paul 2008 written in stone,the gop is dead,will be dead unless they nominate ron paul.

You need to tell this to your local GOP establishment, not to the message board full of Ron Paul supporters:rolleyes:

[TruthAtLast]

we have the cards,if the gop fails to nominate ron paul then the gop will lose.
I cannot endorse a candidate that goes opposite of the gop platform . mccain is dead in the water.

Ron Paul 2008 written in stone,the gop is dead,will be dead unless they nominate ron paul.

As much as I admire your resolve and in many ways I agree with you, the GOP is thinking that you're crazy. They are thinking "how can McCain be dead if he got the majority of the popular vote and won nearly every state". I'm not saying they think for sure they can win. I'm sure they think they will have to fight pretty hard against the DEMs, but I seriously doubt they believe that Ron Paul who has maybe 5-10% support in the Republican party would be their saving grace.

Again, I agree with much of what you're saying but that is probably what they're thinking. It is hard to convince them that Ron Paul is their answer when he hasn't won a single state (for whatever reason).

[AJ Antimony]

There are probably 4 major reasons:


Ballot access as you point out
Access to debates. If he was ignored and marginalized as a Republican candidate, imagine as an independent or third party.
Money. 20-30 million is amazing but he would need 100-200 million to really compete. This is why he always says that a third party run is more possible for someone like Perot.
Time. As JB has said several times, he just doesn't have the time to campaign the way it would take to really win.


Let me add more.

5. He stills has thousands of supporters in remaining primary states. He's a good person so he's not going to abandon them just because they have a late state.
6. Most of his supporters are working to become RNC delegates. Why would you want Paul to tell them all "Oh, nevermind, I'm going Independent, don't bother with all that RNC stuff." His supporters would be so pissed.
7. As a Republican he'd get .0001% media exposure, as a Indy/3rd party he'd get 0%.

For god's sake people, RON PAUL RAN LIBERTARIAN IN 1988 AND GOT 400,000 VOTES. This year he's gotten 800,000 in the Republican primaries alone. Probably could pull well over 1,000,000 in the general election.

LIKE IT OR NOT HIS STRATEGY OF RUNNING REPUBLICAN IS WORKING BETTER THAN RUNNING THIRD PARTY. Give him credit where credit is due.

[AFM]

To be fair, you can't compare his lib party run in 88 to his GOP run today.
He has MANY more supporters now.

[angelatc]

Peden is an asstwat

http://www.chrispeden.org/meetchris.html

http://www.chrispeden.org/contribute.html - he is still taking donations to help retire his campaign debt.

I have never known a CPA to use those initials after their name, I don't think.

[nate895]

http://www.chrispeden.org/contribute.html - he is still taking donations to help retire his campaign debt.

I have never known a CPA to use those initials after their name, I don't think.

My mom doesn't, that's for sure.

[Caulfield]

In almost every interview, Ron Paul is asked about running third-party. Time and time again he says there is a bias against 3rd parties and all his time would be spent just trying to get on the ballot...

And Paul will be on what ballots in Nov.?

I always found his answer funny. Yes, the system is built against third parties, and yes, a considerable amount of time is spent on ballot access...but Paul won't be on a ballot in Nov., and a third party will.

[weslinder]

My issue with Ron Paul running third party:

Dr. Paul has inspired 100's of 1000's (millions?) to bring the liberty message to the Republican Party. He has energized and politically motivated many of us who would vote LP/CP, but knew that it was only a protest vote. We've taken over the Republican Party in many counties and some states. I'm a precinct chairman, our new County chairman and vice-chairman are liberty-minded Ron Paul supporters. We are bringing this message to our State convention. We may not have the majority in the party, but we have all of the momentum.

If Ron Paul runs 3rd party, the neocon/corporatist GOP establishment will use it against us. They will try to marginalize the movement within the party, and the head of the Revolution running under a different banner will give them fodder to do that.

This Revolution isn't just about having a great candidate to vote for in 2008. It's about restoring the Republic. That won't be done this year or in the next 4 years, but with intelligent, motivated people working towards it, it can be done.