Ron Paul and the Border Fence

[rodent]

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[Lord Xar]

huh? that is crazy thinking :)

He DID vote for the border fence and I am glad. Though he did say that was the least of his "plan" for dealing with the illegal immigration problem.

If you are worried about he collapse of the United States, don't you think you should be heading North, instead of South. No reason to jump from the frying pan into the fire.

If you want to get to get to mexico the fence will not keep you in.. trust me.

[happyphilter]

omg stop with the what if's and all this theory crap "if (blank) happens"
I do believe he wants a wall, but more-so to stop the reasons for illegal immigrants for coming here. So no birth rights, or work for illigals, or medical.
second, it is insane , If the US collapses whos going to keep us in? The government? they would have collapsed as well. and if there was some form of establishment im pretty sure a wall isnt going to stop 300 million gun toting people.

I really am getting irritated by all this conspiricy theory and speculation stuff floating around here. no offence.

[rodent]

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[PennCustom4RP]

Rodent, Do you think the Mexican Federales will be waiting for you on the other side of the fence with open arms? Don't count on it. Jumping that fence freely is a one way only proposition, for the Mexicans...to the North, you won't be allowed.

[rodent]

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[Ron Paul Fan]

Rodent, Do you think the Mexican Federales will be waiting for you on the other side of the fence with open arms? Don't count on it. Jumping that fence freely is a one way only proposition, for the Mexicans...to the North, you won't be allowed.

And apparently there wouldn't be any openings or doors in the fence that we could get through. I wonder how legal immigrants from Mexico are going to get in when the fence is built. This whole scenario makes no sense to me.

[rodent]

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[PennCustom4RP]

Is the infrastructure really there on the Mexican side to track illegal immigrants from the North?

The Mexican Army is at the Border, helping drug smugglers, and harassing our Border Patrol.
You won't be an illegal immigrant from the North, you'll be shot jumping the fence.
They, the Mexican Army will see this as an invasion and take action, not like our Govt does, turn the blind eye.

[rodent]

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[michaelwise]

Would any of the other candidates have the guts to answer this Youtube question besides Ron Paul.

How long will it take you, after you are Inaugurated as President, to finish building the border fence, and secure the border?

[trispear]

Fences can and always have been circumvented. Mostly with simple cutters. What keeps a fence safe would be sensors and patrolling guards. The fence is more of a delaying device and probably also a thing to mount sensor on and deliver electricity to them.

If the country collapses, the borders defense will be down, patrols may stop/cease, etcetera. Even border guards and the Army needs to get paid.

I knew people who grew up in East Germany - even in that small area (just Berlin mainly) and later the entire East/West German border escapes happened. Berlin was the hardest area as it had kill-boxes and lots of guards and it was legitimately tough. But much of the rest of Germany was rural and not so tough in terms of statistics (% sucessfully escaped) - it took courage to face those obstacles but it was more the psychological fear of getting caught than anything else that was difficult to master.

Our Mexico/US border is HUGE. A fence won't stop you. It will slow you down. The roaming patrols and sensor will be the key. Also, you have the Canadian border, both coasts (especially Florida) as escape routes:) Mexico might not be so nice anyway - the rural area still has outlaws. And well, the safer places you drive already has our officials (guards) in place to check passports.

No, I don't believe the country won't collapse soon. But I do believe that a fiscal crisis as the comptroller general outline will be facing our nation in the next 20-50 years. Ron Paul has mentioned this before, but in the 1920s, German money became worthless - no matter how much they would print, it wouldn't buy anything. I have some of those bills. A bill from 1921 would be a denomination of 20 marks and would have brought a week's worth of food with change to spare in 1921. The other bill from 1923 would be 1,000,000,000 (they kept raising the denominations by 10) and wouldn't by a slice of bread.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hyperinflation#The_1920s_German_inflation

Germany's saving grace in that period is that it had a solid industrial/manufacturing base. What do we have today besides a largely "service" economy? What happens when our money does not buy anything? And importers don't bring any goods in? And oil stops flowing? And materials we don't have cannot be imported? And all those goods get diverted to countries whose money has value?

Already, the petrol dollar established after the war has weakened, the petrol countries have looked at and in some cases adopted the Euro. Perhaps they'll take the Yuan next.

Largely, it isn't our politicians that are solely to blame, but our collective voting base. People who wanted to know what the politicians could do for them and in return, Politicians promised more and more using borrowed money to fund it. If we don't vote Ron Paul in, as I see him as the extremely clean, morally untouchable, once-in-a-lifetime candidate - I don't think there is hope for anybody else with similiar ideas to get in - and I think that will signal the official Point of No Return for the US. But again, the decline will take a long time to hit bottom.

Man do I ramble:)

[PennCustom4RP]

God damn. How ridiculous is it that we have worse border management than Mexico? Scratch that idea, then.

Absolutely, the Mexican agenda is to help their poor to get here, so the US can take care of them.
If our Govt were to collapse, I'd say grab your guns and ammo, and 'Run to the Hills', there will be others who have done the same,to meet up with, get organized, and fight back...Our armed forces will splinter...historically, this is how such situations always play out. Look at the War between the States, Yugoslavia, etc etc.
Only hope it never comes to that.

[PennCustom4RP]

And apparently there wouldn't be any openings or doors in the fence that we could get through. I wonder how legal immigrants from Mexico are going to get in when the fence is built. This whole scenario makes no sense to me.

A secure border does not mean one with no doors, just controlled points of entry, of which there could be hundreds, and no points of entry between these.
As the border is now, in most places, there is nothing delineating Mexico from the US but a line on a map, or a strand of barbed wire..

[michaelwise]

Which candidate would have the guts to answer his question?

[michaelwise]

Would any of the other candidates have the guts to answer this Youtube question besides Ron Paul.

How long will it take you, after you are Inaugurated as President, to finish building the border fence, and secure the border? Which candidate would have the guts to answer this question?

[njandrewg]

if the country collapses I would think that there is still a small amount of people left who'll get organized and fight for this country.(not head on, that would be suicide, but guerilla tactics).

I mean Iraq shows that a small resistence can be very effective on the home turf. And iraq is a small country(its twice the size of idaho), so frankly any group that comes to power will not have the resources to control the country

[trispear]

If this country collapses, I don't think an external enemy would move in. There will be a central authority that would have access to ICMBs which == MAD for foreign invaders.

But that doesn't mean there wouldn't be a secessions from the Union as almost nobody would nuke their own country - even to prevent that.

There was a mini-series on TV a few years about a scenario where I think Utah secceded and the consequences of that. Don't remember too much about it.

[Wyurm]

Which candidate would have the guts to answer this question?

Ron Paul, and Tom Tancredo.

As for the Democrats, Gravel would answer it straight. It might not be what you want to hear, but it would be a clear answer and not the beating around the bush, I dont quite want to offend LaRaza, and I don't want to offend real Americans so I'm not actually going to say anything that makes any sense----- not that nonsense at least.

[constituent]

If this country collapses...

really isn't the question to ask here. it is what if our country continues on the current path for another 20 yrs. would we need to escape and could we?

remember, while the dollar is still worth more than the peso, most of us would live like kings in mexico. police in mexico, and most of the u.s. as well (sorry, face it) are not a problem as long as their bills are covered (we've all gotta eat).

right now a wise investment would be about 100,000 acres of savannah anywhere in mexico. pay some local people a relatively enormous wage to tend acacias, charge the un for carbon sequestration, sell gum arabic and the enormous amount of medicines derived from the plants on the open market to US pharma. buy the cops, and the governors so you've always got your assets covered.

remember, the immigration may be driving up prices here, but economics are a two way street.... the emigration is driving prices down somewhere else.

and this approach wouldn't be "sacrificing our national sovereignty" as some might suggest... unless we were never sovereign.

Needless to say I am for completely open borders. However, if you are 'working' in our country you need to have papers... b/c there are plenty of locals w/out a job and they should take absolute priority.

Penn... I'm with you on head for the hills... my closest hills are a couple of hours away though, in Mexico.

[ButchHowdy]

We are not 'wall' people.

[LibertyEagle]

If our Govt were to collapse, I'd say grab your guns and ammo, and 'Run to the Hills', there will be others who have done the same,to meet up with, get organized, and fight back...

That would be a good idea, although I thought Libertarians don't like to organize. Wouldn't "each individual for himself" be the motto? :p

[constituent]

you know it's funny, but if everyone 'grabs their guns' they will create an unnecessarily tense situation for themselves and those around them.

if the gov't collapses, everyone should declare peace. uncork that bottle, spark up that fatty, whatever helps you relax and enjoy the new day. if the gov't collapses hold your ground, stay calm and stick with what/who you know and everything will work itself out. worry about securing a source of food and water first.