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bobbyw24
03-28-2008, 06:18 AM
http://www.nolanchart.com/article3119.html

Topic: Presidential Campaign 2008
Why did Ron Paul lose?

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A calm analysis of the reasons -- and lessons that should be taken away from it , but probably won't.
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by Logical Premise
(Statist)
Why did Ron Paul lose?

Let me clarifiy that statement. It is theoretically possible that the superdelegates could vote for Ron Paul in the convention. It is theoretically possible that all of Huckabee's and Romney's delegates, being free to vote how they like, could also vote for Ron Paul in the convention.

But the ugly reality is that even if he wins in such a convoluted manner, he really lost. He got, on average, between 2% and 10% of the vote in most states. The people clearly are not "behind him", and if the delegates at the convention acted in a manner that went against the wishes of the electorate, most of them will have a price to pay.

But why did he lose? If you listen to Libertarians, Ron Paul is conservative, Christian, honest, dedicated, and a strict constitutionalist. He's against big government, seemingly a Republican virtue. He dislikes taxation, seemingly a Republican virtue. He is , on some issues, very close to being a paleoconservative of the oldest school.

Why did they all vote for someone else? Let's examine the reasons:

No name recognition: The main reason there was a lot of "buzz" about some canidates is that they were well known. Huckabee and Romney were governors, Guilliani was all over the news in 9/11 and since then, the mayor of one of the most influential cities in the world. Fred Thompson was an actor. John McCain had already run for president and had his name floated around. Against this, you have Ron Paul. He doesn't have the suavely presidential look of Romney, and he doesn't have the stupidly macho-hero image of McCain, and he doesn't have the charismatic "good ol boy" power of Huckabee. He is straightforward and clear and honest ... but not that exciting to most people. And he's not "big". When most people think of him, unfortunately, they link him not to Republicans, but Libertarians.
No organization: the campaign he ran was a completely disorganized mess, a shambolic fuck-up of such monumental proportions I'm frankly astounded you Libertarians haven't lynched his campaign staff for treason. I've seen better efforts by my city councilmen. The only real traction ever made in the campaign was by the grass-roots element. Fundraising? Grassroots. Internet viral message? Grassroots. Precinct level organization? Grassroots. Certainly, the grassroots deserves a commendation for one of the best efforts in history ... but the grassroots cannot get your canidate ACCESS. That's the campaign's job, and they failed, leading to...
Locked out of the Media: As a result of the campaign's ignorance of how to handle the media, Ron Paul started out crippled. When the money bombs brought in millions, the campaign did not take out nationwide ads, it didn't take out a flood of interviews, it didn't agitate to get him on as many places as possible. Even some writers on this website tried to get him on radioshows and the like and were ignored. And that you cannot do. If you ignore the MSM, it locks you out. Dennis Kunich felt that people should judge him on how he spoke, not the media spin, and he was locked out even more totally than Ron Paul.
Hindered by public perception: The presentation of Ron Paul's proposals was another disastrophe. I won't comment on the viability of his proposals -- abolishing the IRS and 50 to 70% of the government departments, slashing spending, cutting pork, withdrawing our military from all over the world. The problem is that it was presented as one gigantic package. Over and over, I heard the same thing from people talking about Ron Paul -- "That guy wants to cut stuff we need". Talking with a mechanic for Lockheed, he said "I like some of the guy's ideas, but he'd put me out of work cutting the military like that." When I pointed out that Ron Paul didn't say he wanted to cut the military, the mechanic said that "he had heard that" and felt more comfortable voting for McCain. To me this implies...
Lack of Control of the Message: People were hearing all kinds of crap that was attributed to Ron Paul. That he was racist. That he was going to ban abortion. That he has no problems with abortion. He would abolish the military. He would withdraw us from the UN and all trade agreements. That he didn't trust any medicine except alternative medicine. That he planned to let the poor starve. And on, and on, and on. And no one in his campaign, and he himself, fought this. His site is full of doubletalk -- his page on Racism is so vague and missing the point that most people saw it as code for "We won't stop racism, it's not our job, so if you're racist go right ahead".
The attitude: I've mentioned this before. But when you've got no name recognition, people don't understand your position, you can't get on TV , your campaign is paralyzed, and people link you to "fringe groups" , the last thing that's going to help is hearing some nut screaming at the top of his lungs that Ron Paul is the greatest man since Jesus. It makes your canidate look like Lyndon LaRouche. People go with what they see, and for every time I had a calm, logical discussion with a RP supporter, I had five times I had to listen to a disjointed diatribe about liberty that told me nothing about how RP would deal with my problems, or the problems I thought that this country needed to address, and everything about things I didn't care about. Perhaps that's me...the votes suggest otherwise.
Pie-in-the-sky thinking: After the first few contests when he got beaten badly, someone -- either the grassroots or the campaign -- should have done some rethinking and new strategizing. Instead, the grassroots complained it was due to the MSM bias and the stupidity of voters, and the campaign did nothing. And so it happened again, and again, and then Super Tuesday came along and that was a trainwreck, and Super Tuesday II killed the popular vote aspect of winning. The answer? "Well, we can still win on delegates".
Winning on delegates isn't winning. Even if you win (unlikely, but still within the bounds of possibility), you haven't won over the American people. In fact, if you win that way, there is no possible way you could win the presidential election -- no neo-con will vote for Ron Paul, and that's the majority of McCain's base. That's the base that has propelled him to where he is now. Social conservatives wont' be very happy that Ron Paul won't use the power of government to enforce their beliefs, and will probably simply not vote. And so you'll get maybe 15%, maybe 25% of the popular vote -- and either Hillary or Obama will crush you.

And the outcome? The GOP would be so divided and demoralized that it would take years to recover , and they would never ever trust Libertarians or their values again.

If you want to win, you need three things:

A platform that doesn't scare the shit out of people: If you're really determined to roll back the changes in government, you are going up against literally everyone else. So sweeping changes are probably going to turn people away. Remember -- just becuase everything is wrong and horrid to you doesn't mean everyone else sees it that way. Most people see government as needing to be adjusted slightly , with "better people" in power -- not "renovated". If you move your platform slowly over time so people can see the results, then you can prove you were right. (Or, if your platform actually makes things worse, well, you have time to correct. That gold standard thing is not going to go well at first).
A canidate that people besides Libertarians can get excited about: I certainly don't mean to insult anybody, but only a small fraction of the population gives a shit about Ron Paul. You need someone younger, a charismatic speaker, someone handsome, married to a goodlooking woman, someone very Christian, a veteran, and who has a track record slightly less extreme than Dr. Paul. He has to be able to compromise. If you insist on playing it with guys like Ron Paul, the slick criminals like McCain and the messianic pretenders like Obama will beat you and keep beating you.
A campaign that can at least find it's own ass if it put it's hands in it's back pockets: C'mon, folks. I wouldn't trust those people to lead starving wolves to fresh meat, much less leading the electorate to unite behind a canidate. If the people you've got running this mess are the best you can do, HIRE someone. Pay that evil demon that's running Obama's campaign, or hell, hire an ad agency. Anything. The grassroots element is already working perfectly, but you need a national level to coordinate it, to be the contact point for media inquries, and to leverage the money into something useful.
I've pretty much decided that, whatever happens, my vote is going to McCain, if for no other reason than to infurate friends of mine who believe statism should equal socialism, which I do not agree with. But what I choose has very little to do with the mistakes above. What you have to decide now is are you going to do things the same way in 2012? Or will you change, and try to make a more successful run?

Either way, the Forces of Statism will be there with sarcastic commentary.

ConstitutionGal
03-28-2008, 06:37 AM
Any time your compromise, you lose something. Many admire Ron Paul because he does NOT compromise - not his ideals, not his principles, not his beliefs so, you go ahead and vote for McCain - many of use will be sticking to OUR principles and either writing in Ron Paul or voting Liberitarian or Constitution party.

speciallyblend
03-28-2008, 06:40 AM
Ron Paul 2008 written in stone, mccain is dead in the water. mccain cannot win, his own base will not even vote for him,yes I'm a republican AND I'M VOTING FOR RON PAUL 2008

Treat mccain,like the gop treated Ron Paul, what comes around goes around;)

jason43
03-28-2008, 06:40 AM
Ron Paul won, its just a matter of how long it will take for the rest of the country to find out. It might take 20 years like it did for Goldwater, but this fire won't be put out.

As far as this election, its over. He remains in congress, and hopefully, we can get him some allies.

We need to get behind another candidate because McCain, Obama, and Clinton aren't going to do it for me...

NerveShocker
03-28-2008, 06:45 AM
I was taking you serious until the very end when you said your voting for McCain. Being anti-war and well anti- everything he stands for it saddens me to see a supposed Ron Paul supporter actually voting for him. I guess some people don't understand that you can't vote for the lesser of two evils (In your case McCain over a democrat). I already voted for Ron Paul and am proud of it.

acptulsa
03-28-2008, 06:48 AM
Not such a calm analysis, hard but necessary lessons. I disagree with the conclusions, but much education is needed before a different outcome will truly be successful. One thing is certain, though--Romney and Huckabee supporters are feeling very, very disenfranchised being told they "need" to vote for McCain. That's our key if we have one.

tajitj
03-28-2008, 06:51 AM
Very good points. Many have bothered me since Feburary. I always thought if Romney had Pauls perfect record and his views this country would have voted for him. He would have been able to clearly state how we can get to the small government proposed.
I do think alot of it is Dr. Paul. The way he speaks and looks, feeling as if it is guys like him and us against the whole establishment. I just really connect with him as the guy who is painfully shy and may not look the best. But if you site down and talk to him he has some amazing ideas on life and is the nicest guy you have every met. I do not care how good of a president he would be or if he does not run a good campaign. I honestly knew he would not win. But what the heck am I doing in the computer at 7:49 on a friday morning. Seeing what is going on with his campaign. He has changed my life, without sounding cheesy.

thuja
03-28-2008, 07:01 AM
i have ALWAYS been disappointed in the official campaign organization, and ALWAYS fgured that he would reorganize that. i am now regretting my financial contributions, and wish i could ask for a refund. i was looking forward to seeing several very fabulous ads on tv, and was sort of still looking for that.
all i can look forward to now is a miracle. i am still telling people to vote for him, and a few minutes ago told a customer service person on the phone who homeschools, and whom i told to look up the social security surveilance act also. i can only tell as many as i get a chance to, and need help from that so called campaign, which seems determined to let him just loose, so i think i want a refund. or a paycheck from them.
i want ron paul as president NOW, not some other guy in the future, but NOW.
also, telling people to look at that less than inspiring website is not as useful as i would like either.
anyway, i am still hoping and trying.

thuja
03-28-2008, 07:08 AM
Very good points. Many have bothered me since Feburary. I always thought if Romney had Pauls perfect record and his views this country would have voted for him. He would have been able to clearly state how we can get to the small government proposed.
I do think alot of it is Dr. Paul. The way he speaks and looks, feeling as if it is guys like him and us against the whole establishment. I just really connect with him as the guy who is painfully shy and may not look the best. But if you site down and talk to him he has some amazing ideas on life and is the nicest guy you have every met. I do not care how good of a president he would be or if he does not run a good campaign. I honestly knew he would not win. But what the heck am I doing in the computer at 7:49 on a friday morning. Seeing what is going on with his campaign. He has changed my life, without sounding cheesy.

here i am as well at this hour, and lots of hours, and it has not been very good for my health, which is such a favorite topic of mine. lately, i have been outdoors more, and also working out, trying to regain my health, but i keep looking here and elsewhere, hoping to see that miracle we need for regaining our freedoms.

there were and are, a lot of things to do to get a polished presentation, like voice and fashion, etc, or did that whole field of disappear from the advertising world?

Exarel
03-28-2008, 08:10 AM
Any time your compromise, you lose something. Many admire Ron Paul because he does NOT compromise - not his ideals, not his principles, not his beliefs so, you go ahead and vote for McCain - many of use will be sticking to OUR principles and either writing in Ron Paul or voting Liberitarian or Constitution party.


+1


And.. OP voting for Mcain? lol?

acptulsa
03-28-2008, 08:21 AM
+1


And.. OP voting for Mcain? lol?

Doubt it. That's a quoted article from nolan, not (I believe) the OP's opinion.

mczerone
03-28-2008, 09:26 AM
This Author needs to go back to school, for a number of reasons. Though he is verbose, the quality of writing was poor. He mentioned superdelegates - that's only the Democrats.

The percents he gave near the end are way off, and the fact that he says he is voting for McCain out of spite shows his character.

torchbearer
03-28-2008, 09:36 AM
Did Obi wan Kenobi lose? ;)
Getting the ideas out there and starting a movement that was non-existant a year ago sounds like a victory to me.

Libertarian Party has been trying to do this for 50 years.

Bossobass
03-28-2008, 10:22 AM
That's rich. The media locked Ron Paul out because his campaign staff didn't "handle" them.

Did you all get that one? You have to "handle" the media.

Huckabee had name recognition because he was a Governor and his massively competent campaign staff "handled" the US Media. That's the second most riotously funny bucket of drivel in this guy's mindless rant.

Which came first, Huck's rise in "the polls", or his national ads? Which came first, Huck's face on the front page of USA Today, or his national ads? Which had more impact on his "campaign"?

Do I look like an imbecile?

For all you folks out there who have been around as long as I have been, answer me this: In all the Presidential primary races you've been exposed to (2008 is my 13th), name another candidate who the media consistently referred to as a 'KOOK". How about "Nut case"? How about "Whacko"?

When did you ever watch a nationally televised debate where one candidate was consistently asked the fewest questions, which were all loaded hits, and the other candidates laughed like school children into purposely left open microphones?

My answer is NEVER. Where is the outrage?

Why does it seem to be perfectly fine that a few big business wanks and Bush, Cheney, Rove, Wolfowitz, Libby, Rice, Rumsfeld and Powell stole 2 elections and hijacked America into the worst 8 years in US history by fraudulent war, record multi-trillion dollar deficit, Communist legislation, multi-billion dollar mercenary armed forces and multi-billion dollar taxpayer rip offs, energy prices quadrupling and the dollar crashing to record lows, but:

Millions of We the People will have lost if we get Ron Paul elected through the delegate process because "the people" really prefer one of the other 3 candidates??

He should be happy we don't usher Ron in through a bloody revolution, which is warranted if ever a revolution was in history.

Ron Paul scares the shit out of people? People don't even know where Iraq is on a map. If Ron isn't elected, he'll see people (and not just the 1% who profit from the current BS policies, but hundreds of millions of people) who will require a new definition of the term "scared shitless" to describe them.

Ron lost the so-called popular vote in this election's primaries because that same handful of wanks will stop at nothing to see him defeated. PERIOD.

Nor should we stop at anything to get him elected, which will not only be a win, it will be an historic win.

"I'm going to vote for McCain, just to piss off my friends". I REST MY CASE.

Bosso

acptulsa
03-28-2008, 10:27 AM
Do I look like an imbecile?

Don't know, can't see you. But you read like you've got half the nation's brains in your head, and the author of that article is begging for the remaining scraps to split with the other couple hundred million out there.

acptulsa
03-28-2008, 10:58 AM
You also have to love (?) the way the article intimates that Giuliani and Thompson outperformed Dr. Paul in popular votes. Huh?

adam1mc
03-28-2008, 11:19 AM
F*** You Nolan Chart. McCain Fan Boy

kigol
03-28-2008, 06:28 PM
hmmm

nate895
03-28-2008, 06:41 PM
I hate when people say you need to "tone down the message." No, you don't need to tone down the message, you need to get onto TV and tell everyone why you think the way you do, you need everyone who supports your opinion telling their friends why they think that way, and you need to tell everyone HOW you are going to do it (RP usually didn't discuss that) you don't need to "tone down the message." That is why the GOP nominates people who aren't conservative and the Democrats someone who isn't liberal, and no matter what happens, they lose. You cannot compromise, especially if you are a conservative. You cannot give up ground, you can only take it back.

constituent
03-28-2008, 06:44 PM
It is theoretically possible that the superdelegates could vote for Ron Paul in the convention.

no it isn't.

nate895
03-28-2008, 06:48 PM
no it isn't.

Yes, the invisible rule monsters who are created by the party leaders in Seances will come up and eat them.

constituent
03-28-2008, 06:49 PM
Yes, the invisible rule monsters who are created by the party leaders in Seances will come up and eat them.

sounds scary.