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View Full Version : I hope this is not spun the way I think it will be...




OptionsTrader
03-24-2008, 07:55 PM
Pilot's gun fires on US Airways flight
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080325/ap_on_re_us/gun_on_plane

Kotin
03-24-2008, 08:01 PM
they didnt seem to make a big deal out of it..

Sandra
03-24-2008, 08:09 PM
I have no doubt that this incident never occurred. Just another fake press release to keep guns out of the cockpit.

pcosmar
03-24-2008, 08:13 PM
It takes a bit more than a handgun round to bring down an aircraft.

http://bunting.com.au/vj60/damage.jpg

http://www.kowabunga.org/images/pictures/military_aviation/a10/Kim_campbell_damage_a10.jpg

These flew home.

ronpaulhawaii
03-24-2008, 08:36 PM
This flew home, too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Flight_243

Doktor_Jeep
03-24-2008, 08:47 PM
Maybe the gun on the plane was being used to protect from snakes on the plane.

pcosmar
03-24-2008, 08:51 PM
This flew home, too

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aloha_Flight_243

Wow, that is both scary and impressive.
I was,however, referring to the (Hollywood inspired) myth that a gun shot on board an airplane will make it explode.
Not likely.

pcosmar
03-24-2008, 08:54 PM
Maybe the gun on the plane was being used to protect from snakes on the plane.

I was thinking that it might be a particular brand known for negligent discharges,one with a triger safety.

As in " I am the only one professional enough...."

madengr
03-24-2008, 09:09 PM
It is rumored that a trigger lock was required by TSA......with a round chambered. Brilliant!

ForLiberty-RonPaul
03-24-2008, 09:22 PM
what about Tasers on a plane. Those things are lethal too.

Dequeant
03-24-2008, 11:12 PM
Its pretty much impossible to top the pilot who landed an F15 with one wing blown completely off.

TruckinMike
03-25-2008, 08:29 AM
i know a fellow that flies (for a major airline) and carries. I once thought that The TSA regs were ridiculous with the safety measures they required of the pilot. But now after this bozo lets one off.. I guess those regs weren't so ridiculous -- Why is that guy still flying.

The bad thing is it gives evidence that "we" the private citizen are not capable to own, possess, or use firearms. This case will be used ad infinitim for issues like this.

that Pilot deserves to be shot for doing a disservice to his fellow countryman and passengers.

TMike

acptulsa
03-25-2008, 08:39 AM
Its pretty much impossible to top the pilot who landed an F15 with one wing blown completely off.

Wow. Did that really happen? Wow! Salute! Wish we had his name!

pcosmar, the aircraft you showed photos of were not pressurized. Didn't see a B-29 in there that I know of. Big difference. Air can escape from a pressurized cabin with explosive force, if the differential is high enough.

Makes a bullethole into a de facto cannon wound. See what I mean?

FindLiberty
03-25-2008, 08:44 AM
Gunsmoke?

Pilot (Dillon) was "showing off" by spinning the gun on his index finger for one
of the flight attendants (Miss Kitty) when it discharged unexpectedly.

The pilot then asked the flight engineer (Chester) to go fetch the Doc...

pcosmar
03-25-2008, 09:16 AM
Wow. Did that really happen? Wow! Salute! Wish we had his name!

pcosmar, the aircraft you showed photos of were not pressurized. Didn't see a B-29 in there that I know of. Big difference. Air can escape from a pressurized cabin with explosive force, if the differential is high enough.

Makes a bullethole into a de facto cannon wound. See what I mean?

No, you are thinking that what you see from Hollywood is real.
Explosive decompression CAN happen but is very rare, and the only cases I can find (like the one sited earlier) are caused by a catastrophic Structural Failure..
I have not been able to find ONE instance of a bullet causing or contributing.
I have found that Mythbusters did some experiments, They were unable to cause the explosive decompression until they used actual explosives. A billet would NOT blow the window out. Just a hole and a pressure LEAK.

Just as every car wreck in Hollywood explodes in a ball of fire, this Myth is false.

I will also add that Air Marshals generally carry Frangible Ammo designed for minimum penetration.
As to just what kind of mishandling, I do not know. That is the issue that needs to be addressed.

OptionsTrader
03-25-2008, 09:20 AM
There is a great Mythbusters episode where they attempt to recreate explosive deompression, and failed miserably.

acptulsa
03-25-2008, 09:22 AM
Agreed that it's overblown. Especially by Hollywood--don't they overblow everything? Note I said a bullet hole (the first one only) can come out like a cannon wound. One 20mm cannon wound isn't likely to down an airplane.

pcosmar
03-25-2008, 09:35 AM
I little more on Frangible Ammunition,
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/frangible.htm
http://www.dakotaammo.net/products/glaser/glaser.htm

CountryboyRonPaul
03-25-2008, 11:55 AM
that Pilot deserves to be shot for doing a disservice to his fellow countryman and passengers.

TMike

Those in Government that would use this singular occurence as an example of how all Civilians handle firearms should be shot. The Pilot should just learn how to handle his weapon better, and perhaps face penalties by his employer if they deem it necessary.

madengr
03-27-2008, 10:16 PM
More info:

WTF! A lock is supposed to be threaded behind the trigger while in the holster! I knew it was some bullsh!t rule that contributed to this:

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2006-7/1199752/Holstervault_key_2.jpg

tommyzDad
03-28-2008, 10:50 AM
what about Tasers on a plane. Those things are lethal too.

And snakes with tasers on a plane are doubly so. :p

MarcS
03-28-2008, 04:47 PM
I was thinking that it might be a particular brand known for negligent discharges,one with a triger safety.

As in " I am the only one professional enough...."

They're issued H&K's

due to the rules placed on flight deck officers, they must handle their weapons an excessive amount. They can't just keep it holstered. They have to constantly move it from holster to lockbox and manipulate the weapon. This is a recipe for negligent discharges and has nothing to do with the make or model of the firearm

madengr
03-28-2008, 08:57 PM
Details released on jetliner gunshot
Holster for handgun is also a part of TSA investigation
JEFFERSON GEORGE
jgeorge@charlotteobserver.com

The US Airways captain whose gun discharged in the cockpit of a Charlotte-bound flight Saturday is a former Air Force pilot who lives in Pittsburgh.

The pilot, James Langenhahn, declined to discuss the shooting Thursday night. "As much as I'd like to talk about it," he told the Observer, "I can't right now."

His name was released, apparently inadvertently, after the Observer questioned the government's concealment of facts on a police report of the incident.

The in-flight shooting was the first such incident since pilots began carrying guns after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks.

Langenhahn, 55, is part of the Federal Flight Deck Officer program run by the Transportation Security Administration. He was stowing the 13-shot, .40-caliber pistol when it discharged -- piercing the cockpit wall and fuselage -- while the plane was preparing to land in Charlotte late Saturday morning, according to the report.

Other details released Thursday also indicate that the gun's holster is being investigated in the shooting. Some pilots have criticized the locking holster system for the Heckler & Koch USP pistol as inappropriate for the program that arms pilots. Transportation Security Administration procedures require a pilot to transfer the gun and holster from his flight bag to his belt multiple times during a flight, pilots said in interviews.

The holster system is designed with a lock that goes behind the trigger, preventing the gun from firing. But some pilots say that when the gun isn't snapped tightly into the holster, or becomes loose during transfers, the lock can end up in front of the trigger.

David Mackett, a pilot who is president of the Airline Pilots Security Alliance, said he supports the arming of pilots. But he said the combination of the current gun-and-holster system and the requirement that pilots frequently remove the gun when not in the cockpit is "just a recipe for disaster."

"The locking holster was designed to be used to lock a gun away at the end of the day," said Mackett, who is not in the Federal Flight Deck Officer program. "You need to put the firearm on an officer where he can control it and not touch it."

The bullet -- fired at about 11:20 a.m. Saturday -- struck the left side of the cockpit wall and exited the fuselage below a window. The plane, an Airbus A319 en route from Denver, was at an altitude of 8,000 feet and about eight minutes from Charlotte/Douglas International Airport, according to the police report.

Along with the captain and first officer, the jet carried three flight attendants and 124 passengers -- none of whom reported hearing the gunshot.

US Airways has grounded the pilot without pay, and spokesman Phil Gee said Thursday night that Langenhahn would remain grounded during the TSA investigation. Gee didn't know how long Langenhahn has been with US Airways but said it likely has been several years.

Airport officials released the police report Tuesday after consulting with TSA legal counsel. Sections of the five-page report were blacked out, including names and other identifying information of the pilots, as well as whole sentences explaining what happened as the plane approached the airport.

The Observer asked the TSA to review the report to determine that it had not withheld information that should be public under federal regulations. A TSA attorney on Thursday night faxed the Observer's attorney a new version of the report.

Most of the narrative was still blacked out. But the new version revealed a few additional facts, including that police took photos of the holster -- and the last name of the captain in recounting his exchange with a gate agent.

"... Captain Langenhahn informed her that he was not allowing any passengers on his aircraft until security was on the scene," the police report states.

In December, the Pittsburgh Tribune-Review newspaper reported that US Airways pilot Jim Langenhahn organized a barbershop-singing tribute to a World War II veteran. The event was partly in memory of his own father, a parachute rigger in the South Pacific. The article identified Langenhahn as a former Air Force pilot.

In 1999, Langenhahn wrote a letter to the editor of the Pittsburgh Post-Gazette after a deadly American Airlines crash in Arkansas. He urged the FAA to overhaul its rules governing work and rest period for pilots, which he said would make flying safer. -- Staff researcher Marion Paynter contributed

-- Jefferson George: 704-358-5071

Plane back in the air

The US Airways plane on which a pilot accidentally fired his gun has been repaired and is back in service, the airline said Thursday.

US Airways spokesman Phil Gee said the Airbus A319 began flying again Wednesday. The bullet hole was repaired in-house, he said.

http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/1826/mvc406f4hl3.jpg
http://img129.imageshack.us/img129/3341/mvc409f7oc1.jpg