Impeaching the Official Campaign "Poll"

[VoteForRonPaul]

Okay guys, there were some hot threads about the official campaign today here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129419), here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129414), here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129393) and here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129424)

I have noticed two groups of supporters;

A- This group thinks that the management of this campaign has been inefficient.

B- The other group thinks that the campaign is also inefficient but this group prefers that we should get over it, keep our mouth shut and keep going.


My personal opinion is that we still have 5 months. And this is a long time. If we can find more experienced people to lead this campaign I believe we can achieve some success and sooner is better than later.
What I am suggesting if enough people agree is that we can try to change the management of this campaign through two ways;

First: Signing a petition to impeach this campaign so we can make sure that our voices reaches Ron Paul himself.

Second: Create many websites calling for the impeachment of this management.

If I do trust this campaign ofcourse I would not suggest any different ways to reach Ron Paul but unfortunately this campaign has taught some of us not to trust it.

Quoting from the thread of RPPCC March FEC Report just filed (2/1..2/28) (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1360886#post1360886)

http://query.nictusa.com/cgi-bin/dcdev/forms/C00432914/327711/


1. Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee
3461 Washington Blvd Suite 200
Arlington, Virginia 22201
2. FEC Committee ID #: C00432914
4. Report Type = MAR MONTHLY
5. Covering Period 02/01/2008 Through 02/29/2008
6. Cash on Hand at BEGINNING of the Reporting Period...... 6,002,188.18
7. Total Receipts This Period............................. 1,818,999.54
8. Subtotal (6 + 7)....................................... 7,821,187.72
9. Total Disbursements This Period........................ 2,251,023.09
10. Cash on Hand at CLOSE of the Reporting Period......... 5,570,164.63
11. Debts and Obligations Owed TO the Committee........... 0.00
12. Debts and Obligations Owed BY the Committee........... 0.00
13. Expenditures Subject To Limitation.................... 0.00
14. NET Contributions (Other than Loans).................. 34,157,697.94
15. NET Operating Expenditures............................ 28,735,134.35


RPPCC Still had $5.5 MILLION on hand as of 2/29.

Here's a breakdown of major expenses (categories over $10K) for FEBRUARY:


Television Spot Expense/Production............... 559,195.00
Telecommunications............................... 290,586.22
Reimbursement Expenses........................... 215,152.61
Freight/Shipping Expenses........................ 165,676.47
Salaries......................................... 161,427.52
Payroll Tax Expense.............................. 161,320.07
Credit Card Contributions Processing Fee......... 148,527.50
Airline Travel................................... 91,979.99
Consulting-Political Field Work.................. 82,374.74
Bulk Mail Printing/Processing/Postage............ 77,504.40
Print Advertising................................ 50,000.00
Travel-Hotel Accomodations....................... 45,369.61
Petition Coordination............................ 43,433.61
Signs/Sign Supplies.............................. 42,595.47
Books/Magazines.................................. 40,000.00
Rent Expense..................................... 31,588.32
Ballot Access Coordinator........................ 27,633.43
Petitioner....................................... 24,849.75
Travel-Car Rental................................ 24,419.13
Food Expense..................................... 22,004.86
Telephone Expense................................ 21,902.43
Mileage Expense.................................. 16,045.48
Catering......................................... 15,342.53
Political Field Work............................. 14,127.00
Office Supplies.................................. 13,031.57
Media Expense.................................... 13,009.14
Accounting Services.............................. 10,833.45
Radio Spot Expense............................... 10,288.60
Credit Card Payment.............................. 10,004.52



Please take a moment and cast your vote on this critical issue.
Do you agree on impeaching the heads of the official campaign?


No, I trust the campaign

Yes

No, let us get over it.

Yes, because "get over it" is never a solution

Maybe, if it was earlier in the race

[d03boy]

You would have to pay a new campaign. Better get your wallet out.

[Sandra]

Vote for Ron Paul, you are now on my ignore list. Quit this crap!

[runningdiz]

what a waste of space... post something constructive...

[VoteForRonPaul]

Vote for Ron Paul, you are now on my ignore list.
If this is the price of freedom and change then I am so proud to be on your ignore list!

[VoteForRonPaul]

You would have to pay a new campaign. Better get your wallet out.
I am so ready. But how many people in the campaign need to be changed you think? 2, 4, 6 how many?

[Fields]

hahha this is funny

[Ladred]

Pessimism at its best. You're quickly becoming a troll who neglects to provide anything more to a discussion than negative rhetoric. Things could have been done better in the campaign, of course, but this amount of destructive criticism is just your poor use of spare time, and a waste of other reader's time here.

Thank VB there is a way to ignore you. If others here share my point of view, then please click Buddy / Ignore Lists (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/profile.php?do=editlist) and add this troll to your ignore list.

[RollOn2day]

I am so ready. But how many people in the campaign need to be changed you think? 2, 4, 6 how many?

One...Ron Paul.

Impeach staff?? What the **#@!

You don't impeach them....you fire them and then only if you are Ron Paul.

Don't you think you better ask the man if he even wants to continue running?:eek:

[VoteForRonPaul]

.. post something constructive...
How do you define being constructive?

If we cannot even impeach our campaign' leaders who granted us failure and ignored alot of us, so how do you think we will impeach Bush and Cheney? :rolleyes:

[Ladred]

Because your definition of "failure" isn't the same as I would believe the majority that visit these forums.

[jrich4rpaul]

And what exactly is the point of this now?

[TruthAtLast]

what do you think you are going to accomplish? You're probably just going to piss off and insult Ron Paul and there isn't much the official campaign is doing at this point anyway. Most of the Movement is being done by the Grassroots and that has been the case for some time now.

I wouldn't just say "get over it", I'd say "who the hell cares?"
Are you saying they have to be perfect? Flawless? Of course mistakes were made (though not just by them I might add). Ron Paul made some mistakes.... should we impeach him too?

If you don't want to use them for the next election in 4 years, fine. If you don't want to donate to any organization they are involved with (like LPAC), fine. If you don't want to support any more money bombs for the campaign, fine! But this Movement is NOT based on the success or failure of the Presidential Campaign or the people who are running it.

Why the hell are you wasting time when there is work to do? Come up with your OWN organization and then you wont have to worry about the HQ.

[runningdiz]

How do you define being constructive?

If we cannot even impeach our campaign' leaders who granted us failure and ignored alot of us, so how do you think we will impeach Bush and Cheney? :rolleyes:

The Campaign leaders were not elected they were chosen by Ron. So how do YOU have the authority or any of us to impeach anyone on the official campaign? What your suggesting is very childish and makes you look completely unintelligent.

[VoteForRonPaul]

what do you think you are going to accomplish? You're probably just going to piss off and insult Ron Paul
I think Ron Paul is more intelligent than to be pissed off of something like this.



and there isn't much the official campaign is doing at this point anyway. Most of the Movement is being done by the Grassroots and that has been the case for some time now.
So why keep those people who are doing nothing? Why, if it is in our hands to change them and bring other people who might do a better job in the time left. Why we force ourselves to accept the wrong people? If it is in my hand to change Bush today I would not hesitate to but I would never say oh let us wait until he finishes his term. I do not mean to insult the campaign leaders, they might be good people or semi-good people, but this has nothing to do with achieving success.



I wouldn't just say "get over it", I'd say "who the hell cares?"
Are you saying they have to be perfect? Flawless? Of course mistakes were made (though not just by them I might add). Ron Paul made some mistakes.... should we impeach him too?
Yes Ron Paul has done many mistakes but comparing the good things he has done in his position through the past years, those mistakes will appear so little.



If you don't want to use them for the next election in 4 years, fine. If you don't want to donate to any organization they are involved with (like LPAC), fine. If you don't want to support any more money bombs for the campaign, fine! But this Movement is NOT based on the success or failure of the Presidential Campaign or the people who are running it.
Why the hell are you wasting time when there is work to do? Come up with your OWN organization and then you wont have to worry about the HQ.
Everybody has to care about the HQ.
The importance of a successful campaign is so impossible to ignore and I do not think I even need to explain how important is this because it is so obvious. I guess :confused:

[ryanmkeisling]

I do not even understand what you are trying to say here? Impeach who? How do you expect to go about this? With the results of some poll that surely does do not represent even a small percentage of the people involved in this movement? You spend too much time on the internet if you can find meaning in what you are trying to accomplish; I am still trying to figure out what that is exactly.

Ron Paul will stand by the decisions he has made and those of his staff. People are pissed I am sure but this is absolutely ridiculous. There are a lot more people and organizations to blame if this campaign fails. I would think that HQ is the least of those. It is real easy to sit behind a computer on a forum and be critical of others where you are nameless and faceless. I never understood this to be a democratic process, regarding who runs the campaign, nor should it be.

[VoteForRonPaul]

If we cannot even impeach our campaign' leaders who granted us failure and ignored alot of us, so how do you think we will impeach Bush and Cheney? :rolleyes:

The Campaign leaders were not elected they were chosen by Ron. So how do YOU have the authority or any of us to impeach anyone on the official campaign?...........
Well, Bush chose his vice president.

Nobody claim to have authority, if we have a real authority, this campaign should have been fired long time ago! Are you leaving the main subject and just holding in the term"impeachment". Well, you are free to change it with any term suites you.
All I wanted is that the voice of the non-satisfied supporters would reach strong to Ron Paul and let him know that a large number of his supporters are not satisifed with the performance of his campaign.
I do not see anything wrong with that but the opposite is true.
http://www.sugarlessshop.com/2000/images/Stop2.gif covering up the mess which this campaign created and demand a change!

[mketcher]

There are several problems with "impeaching" the campaign.

First, how are you measuring the success or failure of Ron Paul's campaign? He's still in the race, after all the others have dropped out, so you could say that his campaign has been the second most successful campaign in the entire Republican party. The fact that RP doesn't have more delegates, primary wins, money -- or wwhatever criteria you're using to measure the success or failure of the campaign -- can't necessarily be blamed on the official campaign.

Second, hindsight is 20-20. It's easy to point fingers and say the campaign should have done this or should have done that. However, at the time, they did what they thought was best. Remember, this campaign -- with its strong Internet presence, its huge grassroots support, the spontaneity of the support that RP received -- was unlike any other campaign in history. Having some professional political hired guns, with no particular ideological leanings towards RP -- may have been ineffective, maybe even counterproductive, for all we know. Guiliani, Thompson, Huckabee, Romney, all had such experts on their staff ... and look where they are now.

Third, all of the other campaigns, including McCain's and Obama's, have hired the professional gunslingers -- and they've still made serious mistakes. McCain's FEC problems will come back to haunt him. Obama's past associations are now haunting him.

I'm sure everyone agrees that in hindsight, things might have been done differently, but to think that there's some political guru, or some group of political gurus, that could be hired, or could have been hired, to perform a miracle, doesn't strike me as being realistic. Running a campaign for president is not an exact science, and it never will be.

Finally, you're criticizing the campaign without knowing the full details. For all we know, Ron Paul and the campaign has a strategy that it's not fully revealing, in order to catch the opposition off-guard. Don't assume that everything is as it seems on the surface. It may be; it may not be.

[Kotin]

give me my minute back.

[-lotus-]

its a shame that ive been having to add so many 'senior' members to my ignore list...

*sigh*

[VoteForRonPaul]

Ron Paul will stand by the decisions he has made and those of his staff.
I do not think this is the same Ron Paul I know!
Ron Paul that I know when he knows of a mistake he demands a change immediately and does not wait until things get worse!



People are pissed I am sure but this is absolutely ridiculous. There are a lot more people and organizations to blame if this campaign fails. I would think that HQ is the least of those.
The HQ is the least of who?
Every side should do its role separately.
That is what I am trying concentrate on right now. Did the campaign do its part efficiently and successfully? If no, so why it is still there. That would be a waste of time, efforts, money, stress and frustration. Why the people have to accept the wrong thing? Is this the way we should evaluate our governments too?



It is real easy to sit behind a computer on a forum and be critical of others where you are nameless and faceless.
I do not get the point. Is there any thing wrong with siting behind the computer and engaging in a serious discussion? Do you have to see my face to believe me? My face might scare you or it might give you comfort? But what this has to do with exchanging thoughts and saying what is wrong and what is right? Do you see a book's writer while he is writing his books? And would it make a difference if he writes his name anonymous?


I do not even understand what you are trying to say here? Impeach who? How do you expect to go about this?
I tried to explain this in the first post (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129523) but I can explain again.
Forget the term impeach if it sounds too heavy. I am asking the supporters who are not satisfied with the performance of this campaign to send their voice strong to Dr.Paul and ask him to change the management of his campaign.
Ron Paul cannot ignore the voice of his people and be loyal to the wrong people just because they are close to him. I think this is one thing we loved about Ron Paul. Ron Paul is not Bush!
If we do this tomorrow we can have good news very soon but if people decided not to face it and chose to cover it up then it will never happen. I believe this change can happen very fast if we would be true with ourselves and demand it.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/gfx_RedWhiteBlue/icons/icon4.gif
But what I would like to warn this movement from is that what we plant today into this movement is going to be the fruits of tomorrow. If we plant fear and covering-up this is exactly what this movement is going to sow in the future. I am truly worried about the future of this movement!



With the results of some poll that surely does do not represent even a small percentage of the people involved in this movement?.
That is ture but this is usually how polls are done.
The population of America about 300 millions. So how many you think share in any national poll.
Well, we can keep bumping this thread until we get a pretty good sample.
And if you are honest about your demand then you can easily send this poll to your meet up group.

[Andrew76]

I would add another multiple choice answer that reads: No we shouldn't impeach anyone, since none of us really know the day-to-day goings on in campaign HQ. The proverbial "walk a mile in someone else's shoes," comes to mind.
Maybe they are guilty of some serious flubs, maybe they aren't. But until you've worked on a major national campaign for a presidential candidate, I don't feel it's fair - on principle - to be certain they've done something wrong.
The major fact is: Ron Paul was almost completely ignored or sidelined my the MSM. Without constant t.v. coverage, there's no chance for anyone. How do you control that?

[brandon]

I wish people would stop talking about this. What is the point? How does this discussion help us restore liberty?

[VoteForRonPaul]

But until you've worked on a major national campaign for a presidential candidate, I don't feel it's fair - on principle - to be certain they've done something wrong.
That is to me like if you are telling the American people not to vote unless if they have worked in politics in the past.



The major fact is: Ron Paul was almost completely ignored or sidelined my the MSM. Without constant t.v. coverage, there's no chance for anyone. How do you control that?
The major fact is that this campaign did not buy consistent air time when they had and still have the money PERIOD

The question now is; How to change that?

[AJ Antimony]

How can we impeach his staff when most of them are gone since Super Tuesday?

[VoteForRonPaul]

How can we impeach his staff when most of them are gone since Super Tuesday?
I do not really mean changing the whole staff if any remained, just changing the top leader regardless who he is. The most important thing is that we need a creative and experienced mind on the top of this campaign, someone who can listen to what the demands of the supporters are and be able to re-energize them again, with money bombs, Ads ...etc
But now if the current campaign created a money, what would be the purpose of it?? What would be the purpose of it if we the people know that they take it and do nothing useful which we demand or at least know about.

[amy31416]

A day late and a fiat dollar short, buddy.

Whaddaya say we learn from the mistakes that were made, build on our strengths and thank Jesus we didn't have Rudy's campaign managers.

[Hook]

Uh, you aren't going to change anything now. The campaign is nearly over. Anything that happens from here on out is going to be purely grassroots doing.

There is like 10 people left working for HQ.

[nc4rp]

this post smells like doo doo

[H Roark]

lol, what a ridiculous idea.

[TruthAtLast]

Uh, you aren't going to change anything now. The campaign is nearly over. Anything that happens from here on out is going to be purely grassroots doing.

There is like 10 people left working for HQ.

Good point. This is such a ridiculous idea.

Maybe the next poll should be about boycotting Fox News for their snub months ago. Or let's do a poll on whether we should bring back the Blimp. Or how about firing or (impeaching) the person in charge of the mailers in New Hampshire.

There is still a lot of work to do to push this Movement forward and some people are caught up on what happened months ago! What the heck is going on?

[parke]

I keep reading but all my mind is hearing is a long wet fart.

Divide and Conquer

We must remain united and listen to our general. That being RP. Judging by his demeanor today on MSNBC or CNBC.. He's much wiser and smarter than people give him credit for. I bet his scores from college were pretty darn stellar.

I trust RP. Lets just ride this storm out. Nobody knows whats going to happen tomorrow.

[VoteForRonPaul]

There is like 10 people left working for HQ.
You have 10 people controlling over 5.000.000 dollars of the grassroots!
10 people would make it easier for us to change.


Anything that happens from here on out is going to be purely grassroots doing.
I think you missed reading this statistics (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1360886#post1360886). This means that 10 people earn 161,427.52 every month for doing nearly a ZERO job.
Sorry sir this is called a FRAUD


RPPCC Still had $5.5 MILLION on hand as of 2/29.

Here's a breakdown of major expenses (categories over $10K) for FEBRUARY:


Television Spot Expense/Production............... 559,195.00
Telecommunications............................... 290,586.22
Reimbursement Expenses........................... 215,152.61
Freight/Shipping Expenses........................ 165,676.47
Salaries......................................... 161,427.52
Payroll Tax Expense.............................. 161,320.07
Credit Card Contributions Processing Fee......... 148,527.50
Airline Travel................................... 91,979.99
Consulting-Political Field Work.................. 82,374.74
Bulk Mail Printing/Processing/Postage............ 77,504.40
Print Advertising................................ 50,000.00
Travel-Hotel Accomodations....................... 45,369.61
Petition Coordination............................ 43,433.61
Signs/Sign Supplies.............................. 42,595.47
Books/Magazines.................................. 40,000.00
Rent Expense..................................... 31,588.32
Ballot Access Coordinator........................ 27,633.43
Petitioner....................................... 24,849.75
Travel-Car Rental................................ 24,419.13
Food Expense..................................... 22,004.86
Telephone Expense................................ 21,902.43
Mileage Expense.................................. 16,045.48
Catering......................................... 15,342.53
Political Field Work............................. 14,127.00
Office Supplies.................................. 13,031.57
Media Expense.................................... 13,009.14
Accounting Services.............................. 10,833.45
Radio Spot Expense............................... 10,288.60
Credit Card Payment.............................. 10,004.52

[Aratus]

even if we postulate the staff snarfing up $200,000 in salaries per month until the convention
and there are no more expendatures, this still leaves $4.5 million in the kitty after
the hypothetical 10 to 30 people take their part-time or full-time pay! logically it takes
until the november election for most funds to be vaporized if there are no more moneybombs.
irreguardless how effective the campaign staff has been, there is now the debate over
whether or not Ron Paul should actively seek to be on november's ballot as a presidential
candidate. any money spent now to the tune of 2 to 5 million dollars cuts into any funds
set aside for any run in 2012. Ron Paul's house seat perhaps will not have him facing
a strong contender in terms of the person the democrats have put forth. he seems close
to returning once again to the house of representatives. he does not need a big kitty for this...

[Aratus]

if the people at HQ are being honest with us, they really know at the least they all
shall spend about a million bucks prior to the convention, and another million from
the convention to the november election. this gives about 3 million for them to spend
on anything other than salaries. the deep level decision to be made is ron paul's...

[New York For Paul]

It is an interesting question to see if Ron Paul were to run four years from now.

Five million is a lot of money. The HQ probably costs very little as well.

[VoteForRonPaul]

It is an interesting question to see if Ron Paul were to run four years from now.

Five million is a lot of money. The HQ probably costs very little as well.
With all the respect for the people who came out with the idea of running in four years, I believe this idea is so ridiculous to come out at this time while we still have 5 months to go in this race. People paid money and they were willing to pay more if something positive done by their money but unfortunately this campaign is so inefficient and should be replaced today before tomorrow. If we spend this money on advertising from now and until the convention our movement can grow massively and be so well known to the whole nation that it is still active and not over. We should stop the people of this campaign from running quietly and secretively while mccain is running everywhere and everyday on TV.
That is totally a terrible strategy.
Please demand a change!
The problem now resides in how to send our voices to Ron Paul and I do not think we trust this campaign to do this job for us!

And now I am asking those people who voted that they trust this campaign to prove to us that their campaign is worthy of trust by sending our voices of "demanding a change" to Ron Paul through their so called trusted campaign. And if you cannot do this then this would be another proof added to why a large number of RP's supporters do not trust this campaign!

[Aratus]

if we want to dissipate 2.5 million or 5 million dollars, in mediawar terms,
NEXT winter, ONE BIG SUPERBOWL ad does what 10,ooo smaller ads do!
romney just plastered his good looks to the tune of 30 million dollars on tv...
recently. could one BIG ad be an equalizer in terms of name recognition???
i am trying to think about all the name recognition poor mitt got this january...
i am also thinking about all the delegates and votes he happily got this year.
i really do think that ron paul is now as recognizable as is mitt romney to people!

[Aratus]

why not divert the funds into the kitty for the house of reps runs in 2oo8 and 2o10
and then take a remainder set in either 2oo9 or 2o11 and then schedule Dr Ron Paul
to 100 days in iowa between january of 2oo9 and December of 2o11!!! lets anticipate
the NEXT suspertuesday madness that most of us have memorized totally in our own
monday morning quarterbacking! in those states that reject libertarians, you can vote
twice in the two upcoming republican primaries. you can also donate small amounts of
money to honorable REPUBLICAN candidates so as to show that you LIKE the message
they have. some people have a short list here of people who seem to be like Ron Paul
in this. interacting with a traditional ballot or voting machine in those two primaries
as a REPUBLICAN makes you more officially republican despite your tendencies to quote
Ayn Rand the Objectivist. people are then closer to being able to be accepted by GOP people...

[Aratus]

sorta...




this is the idea
whereby you get
to change the party
platform or field delegates!!!

[VoteForRonPaul]

And now I am asking those people who voted that they trust this campaign to prove to us that their campaign is worthy of trust by sending our voices of "demanding a change" to Ron Paul through their so called trusted campaign. And if you cannot do this then this would be another proof added to why a large number of RP's supporters do not trust this campaign!
Okay guys I am renewing my challenge to the people who voted that they trust the campaign and I am asking them to deliver our voices through their trusted campaign to Ron Paul and bring us his response. We demand a change of this inefficient campaign!


1. Ron Paul 2008 Presidential Campaign Committee
3461 Washington Blvd Suite 200
Arlington, Virginia 22201
2. FEC Committee ID #: C00432914
4. Report Type = MAR MONTHLY
5. Covering Period 02/01/2008 Through 02/29/2008
6. Cash on Hand at BEGINNING of the Reporting Period...... 6,002,188.18
7. Total Receipts This Period............................. 1,818,999.54
8. Subtotal (6 + 7)....................................... 7,821,187.72
9. Total Disbursements This Period........................ 2,251,023.09
10. Cash on Hand at CLOSE of the Reporting Period......... 5,570,164.63
11. Debts and Obligations Owed TO the Committee........... 0.00
12. Debts and Obligations Owed BY the Committee........... 0.00
13. Expenditures Subject To Limitation.................... 0.00
14. NET Contributions (Other than Loans).................. 34,157,697.94
15. NET Operating Expenditures............................ 28,735,134.35


RPPCC Still had $5.5 MILLION on hand as of 2/29.

Here's a breakdown of major expenses (categories over $10K) for FEBRUARY:


Television Spot Expense/Production............... 559,195.00
Telecommunications............................... 290,586.22
Reimbursement Expenses........................... 215,152.61
Freight/Shipping Expenses........................ 165,676.47
Salaries......................................... 161,427.52
Payroll Tax Expense.............................. 161,320.07
Credit Card Contributions Processing Fee......... 148,527.50
Airline Travel................................... 91,979.99
Consulting-Political Field Work.................. 82,374.74
Bulk Mail Printing/Processing/Postage............ 77,504.40
Print Advertising................................ 50,000.00
Travel-Hotel Accomodations....................... 45,369.61
Petition Coordination............................ 43,433.61
Signs/Sign Supplies.............................. 42,595.47
Books/Magazines.................................. 40,000.00
Rent Expense..................................... 31,588.32
Ballot Access Coordinator........................ 27,633.43
Petitioner....................................... 24,849.75
Travel-Car Rental................................ 24,419.13
Food Expense..................................... 22,004.86
Telephone Expense................................ 21,902.43
Mileage Expense.................................. 16,045.48
Catering......................................... 15,342.53
Political Field Work............................. 14,127.00
Office Supplies.................................. 13,031.57
Media Expense.................................... 13,009.14
Accounting Services.............................. 10,833.45
Radio Spot Expense............................... 10,288.60
Credit Card Payment.............................. 10,004.52

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

How do you define being constructive?

If we cannot even impeach our campaign' leaders who granted us failure and ignored alot of us, so how do you think we will impeach Bush and Cheney? :rolleyes:

The campaign is not serving at your pleasure. That's what it comes down to. They are not our representitives, nor has there ever been the impression that they were.

The campaign could have done some things differently. But, it's the crooked media and the machine in general that have made things tough.

If you're going to suggest you can impeach someone who owes you nothing, I say you start with the media. And yeah... maybe you would have spent funds differently in hindsight, but I can go on for days about the rock star I'd be if I knew what I know now when I was 18.

At the same time, don't "get over it." Be pissed off about the happenings of the last year. Be really pissed off.

[VoteForRonPaul]

At the same time, don't "get over it." Be pissed off about the happenings of the last year. Be really pissed off.
Yes I am pissed off and this campaign is one of the major reasons why I am so pissed off and I am not alone!!!
Could you tell me why Ron Paul is struggling to be in the news papers in PA and why he is struggling to be on TV in PA and could you tell me why Ron Paul is not in PA? And could you tell me why the official campaign is not supporting the high tide Ad which got a great response from the grassroots while the official campaign is sitting over 5 millions dollars of the money of the grassroots? Is this the way they reward the hard work?
Please visit here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129675), here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129795) and here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129619&page=2) , please click on every single link to see how the people are struggling to get the message out while the campaign is doing NOTHING.


The campaign is not serving at your pleasure. That's what it comes down to. They are not our representitives, nor has there ever been the impression that they were.
What you are saying is truly shocking and I wonder how many people here agree with what you are saying :confused:


The campaign could have done some things differently. But, it's the crooked media and the machine in general that have made things tough.
This takes me to the conclusion that they could have done things differently but they did not do it which equals to what we call failure and lack of experience



If you're going to suggest you can impeach someone who owes you nothing
How about 5 millions dollars :rolleyes:



But, it's the crooked media and the machine in general that have made things tough.
The crooked MSM is not working for us but on the other hand the official campaign should be working for us and that is exactly what they failed to prove that they were doing.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

The campaign is not serving at your pleasure. That's what it comes down to. They are not our representitives, nor has there ever been the impression that they were.



What you are saying is truly shocking and I wonder how many people here agree with what you are saying :confused:

It's not even mildly shocking. Every time I open my wallet, I make a judgement regarding the confidence I have at that time regarding whatever I'm purchasing.

I'm not saying the campaign staff is or was flawless. Could we trade Paul's staff with McCain staff and see Paul in the position McCain is now? Absolutely not.

Many, including myself, were more idealistic that Paul would be given a remotely fair chance to speak. The staff did the best they could in the face of what they were dealing with. Paul is trying to force an untold number of companies and people off of the government gravy train. It's not easy. You can't hire a campaign staff that can do that.

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

Paul is trying to force an untold number of companies and people off of the government gravy train. It's not easy. You can't hire a campaign staff that can do that.

And I have to add this... I knew the media were not impartial all along, but I did have at least some belief that the republican party would be willing to let the chips fall and put their most popular candidate forward. They undermined him every chance they got, with the cooperation of media. The republican party cared less about winning this election and more about continuing their own corruption. If Paul wins, most of the republican power base loses. I doubt any candidate has a campaign staff that's experienced in dealing with that.

In any case, of course we all have a stake in the campaign staff being competent. I'm not saying you don't. I just don't see any evidence to believe that any other staff would have done better under those circumstances. It's not the staff failing us. It's the media and their interests, along with the republican party and their interests.

[Meekus]

I am somewhat surprised at this thread. For me, ultimately, I am behind RP and the people HE chose. This harsh criticism of the campaign is both pointless and divisive.

This blame game crap is nonsense.

[VoteForRonPaul]

It's not even mildly shocking. Every time I open my wallet, I make a judgement regarding the confidence I have at that time regarding whatever I'm purchasing.
This means that you admit that this campaign might has betrayed the trust of a large number of Ron Paul! Very nice!



I'm not saying the campaign staff is or was flawless. Could we trade Paul's staff with McCain staff and see Paul in the position McCain is now? Absolutely not.
How do you know it is absolutely not? Your predictions does not work because the majority of Ron Paul supporters believe that this campaign staffing is one of the worst campaigns ever!



The staff did the best they could in the face of what they were dealing with. Paul is trying to force an untold number of companies and people off of the government gravy train. It's not easy. You can't hire a campaign staff that can do that.
First: If you believe that this campaign has done its best so why they do not step aside and give the opportunity to other people who might do better instead of pursuing with their dictatorship while they know that the grassroots are not satisfied with their work!
Second: You are contradicting your previous statements by saying this campaign has done its best. If this campaign has done its best then please answer my questions which you chose to skip and ignore exactly the same way the campaign ignored the grassroots and here are my questions again;

Could you tell me why Ron Paul is struggling to be in the news papers in PA? and why he is struggling to be on TV in PA? and could you tell me why Ron Paul is not in PA? And could you tell me why the official campaign is not supporting the high tide Ad which got a great response from the grassroots while the official campaign is sitting over 5 millions dollars of the money of the grassroots? Is this the way they reward the hard work?
Please visit here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129675), here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129795) and here (http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=129619&page=2) , please click on every single link to see how the people are struggling to get the message out while the campaign is doing NOTHING. And could you tell me why this campaign failed to buy a consistent air time when they had and still have the money? And could you tell me what this campaign was doing while Mccain was allover the middle east and on TV everyday? And could you tell me what this campaign has done to prove to the American people that Ron Paul is still head to head with McCain?


I did have at least some belief that the republican party would be willing to let the chips fall and put their most popular candidate forward. They undermined him every chance they got, with the cooperation of media.
You should add to this "with the cooperation of a useless RP's campaign"

I am still waiting your answers to my questions PERIOD

[MoneyWhereMyMouthIs2]

This means that you admit that this campaign might has betrayed the trust of a large number of Ron Paul! Very nice!

That's just plain goofy. That's not what I said, and I honestly don't have time to haggle with you like that.

When you come up with a plan to put a better team in place, go for it. I doubt it will happen with your current approach.

[Bro.Butch]

I would add another multiple choice answer that reads: No we shouldn't impeach anyone, since none of us really know the day-to-day goings on in campaign HQ. The proverbial "walk a mile in someone else's shoes," comes to mind.
Maybe they are guilty of some serious flubs, maybe they aren't. But until you've worked on a major national campaign for a presidential candidate, I don't feel it's fair - on principle - to be certain they've done something wrong.
The major fact is: Ron Paul was almost completely ignored or sidelined my the MSM. Without constant t.v. coverage, there's no chance for anyone. How do you control that?

That's the problem they had never worked on a major POTUS campaign.

Run ads with a TV station and they might cover you more...

If they don’t spend the money on this campaign and just stretch it out to collect their overpaid salaries for six more months it is FRAUD and I will lose much respect for Ron Paul for allowing it to happen.

This was the worse run campaign this cycle and one of the worst of all time.

Moore and Snyder should have been fired the day after NH voted !

They should go down in infamy in all your minds as the two men most responsible for squandering the greatest grassroots effort in the history of the FREEDOM movement.

Now in selfish mode, they sit on $5 million given to carry the campaign to the nation !

Fraud shear FRAUD if it isn’t used on this POTUS campaign.

[New York For Paul]

To be fair, most of the political consulting establishment tends to be out of date with newer methods of campaigning. They tend to rely on TV and big media because there are fifteen percent commissions.

The political industrial complex likes concentrated money and spending on TV and Radio. As a result, the grassroots always get the short end of the of the stick because there appears to be less money to be made by the consultants who work in this area.

It has the same affect as economic strip mining. In political strip mining, the consultants fly in, take the money, spend the money and leave nothing left for the local grassroots.

So the volunteers and future candidates get little or no training because the campaign never spend enough money in these areas. In the end the local areas are left worse off because of the campaign. The money is sucked dry for large national efforts.

To be fair to the Ron Paul campaign, at least they tolerated and encouraged grassroots movements and independent campaigning.

I am still annoyed that the Ron Paul campaign did drop the ball in their own official grassroots effort. From what I have read, Obama may have been the candidate too really make use of a grassroots campaign. You look at the number of donors and number of employees for Obama and spending and Obama is the grassroots candidate. But then again, Obama's early career was that of a political organizer.

This happens in both parties.

The campaign consultants fly in, spend the money on TV, give nothing to grassroots and leave the area after the election. The results, the grassroot activists get demoralized and build no political establishment for future campaign runs.

[Aratus]

new york for ron paul! tis old media! again read marshall mcluhan!

[New York For Paul]

new york for ron paul! tis old media! again read marshall mcluhan!

Looks like you are on to something. I will have a lot of reading to do.

[Aratus]

http://www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/theory/McLuhan-Understanding_Media-1-1-7.html

here is a link, to give you a feel.



also even though its almost pure fiction,
edwin o'conner's THE LAST HURRAH is a must read!
it shows how tv and radio shattered the political machines
http://kellehm.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/the-last-hurrah-by-edwin-oconnor/
like tammany hall in my home state! it then was a film with spencer tracy!

[Aratus]

To be fair, most of the political consulting establishment tends to be out of date with newer methods of campaigning. They tend to rely on TV and big media because there are fifteen percent commissions.

The political industrial complex likes concentrated money and spending on TV and Radio. As a result, the grassroots always get the short end of the of the stick because there appears to be less money to be made by the consultants who work in this area.

It has the same affect as economic strip mining. In political strip mining, the consultants fly in, take the money, spend the money and leave nothing left for the local grassroots.

So the volunteers and future candidates get little or no training because the campaign never spend enough money in these areas. In the end the local areas are left worse off because of the campaign. The money is sucked dry for large national efforts.

To be fair to the Ron Paul campaign, at least they tolerated and encouraged grassroots movements and independent campaigning.

I am still annoyed that the Ron Paul campaign did drop the ball in their own official grassroots effort. From what I have read, Obama may have been the candidate too really make use of a grassroots campaign. You look at the number of donors and number of employees for Obama and spending and Obama is the grassroots candidate. But then again, Obama's early career was that of a political organizer.

This happens in both parties.

The campaign consultants fly in, spend the money on TV, give nothing to grassroots and leave the area after the election. The results, the grassroot activists get demoralized and build no political establishment for future campaign runs.


perceptive posting!

[ForLiberty-RonPaul]

enough. this thread sucks.

If you can't trust Paul to pick good campaign people, how can you trust him to pick good people to fill government positions. If you don't like what the campaign is doing. Go out and do it better yourself. Stop preaching to a small group of people on these forums.

[Primbs]

I went to a political conference this week where I heard these ideas.
It has been a subtle issue in both parties.
Most people are not willing to knock the political consultants that hard.

[DeadtoSin]

I suppose there are upsides to the campaign not paying much attention to these boards.

:D

[SteveMartin]

What campaign? All we ever had was an issues promotion team.

[AZ Libertarian]

The major fact is that this campaign did not buy consistent air time when they had and still have the money PERIOD

The question now is; How to change that?

I agree with this sentiment 100%! This is the CRUX of the biscuit. WE NEED TO SEE RON'S FACE ON TV!!!!! This is the ONLY thing I have had and WILL have sticking in my craw UNTIL IT IS CORRECTED!!!!

Had (whoever) flooded the TV market with every last PENNY, it would be a TOTALLY DIFFERENT RACE! You know it and I know it - how can people who have been supposedly picked for this purpose NOT know it!?!

I have had the feeling for a long time now, and it gets stronger every day, that someone somewhere has been taking BRIBES TO DRAG THEIR FEET. There, I said it. Attack me if you wish, but it won't change how I feel, nor will it slow me down in my efforts to make Ron President!

Ed Vallejo
Organizer
Phoenix Meetup Group

[VoteForRonPaul]

enough. this thread sucks.
If you can't trust Paul to pick good campaign people, how can you trust him to pick good people to fill government positions......
Ron Paul did not ask us to be sheep! And he also did not ask us to turn the blind eye when we things going wrong!

Second; Do you think Ron Paul knows that a large number of the grassroots is not satisfied with the performance of this campaign? If he does not know then it is our fault, because we failed to inform him all this time. Ron Paul has only two eyes while we the people have millions and therefore we should act immediately and inform him.

[VoteForRonPaul]

I agree with this sentiment 100%! This is the CRUX of the biscuit. WE NEED TO SEE RON'S FACE ON TV!!!!! This is the ONLY thing I have had and WILL have sticking in my craw UNTIL IT IS CORRECTED!!!!

Had (whoever) flooded the TV market with every last PENNY, it would be a TOTALLY DIFFERENT RACE! You know it and I know it - how can people who have been supposedly picked for this purpose NOT know it!?!

I have had the feeling for a long time now, and it gets stronger every day, that someone somewhere has been taking BRIBES TO DRAG THEIR FEET. There, I said it. Attack me if you wish, but it won't change how I feel, nor will it slow me down in my efforts to make Ron President!

Ed Vallejo
Organizer
Phoenix Meetup Group
Ed, I share with you the same feeling too!

Even recently on CNN when they stated that Ron Paul is still in the race, they waited his YouTube video to be released.
Does anybody think if Ron Paul was on TV everyday in every primary state CNN would wait for a YouTube video to tell the American people that Ron Paul is still in the race??????

What a shame on this campaign!

[VoteForRonPaul]

When you come up with a plan to put a better team in place, go for it. I doubt it will happen with your current approach.
Thanks, the only thing in our hands as grassroots is nothing but informing Ron Paul with what we truly feel about the performance of this campaign and the last decision is going to be his and not ours!
Therefor I am going to start a new website where the grassroots will be able to scream and shout


Enough is Enough!

If anyone has a suggestion please bring it up, I did not choose the domain name yet so if you come up with a good name please let me know ASAP.
30 days on PA, and if we are not going to demand a change of this campaign right now, the same mistakes are going to continue to happen from now and until the convention!

[Bradley in DC]

What campaign? All we ever had was an issues promotion team.

We had an issues promotion team? :confused: