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Bradley in DC
03-18-2008, 08:04 AM
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120579647855943453.html?mod=djemEditorialPage

Gun-Rights Showdown
By RANDY E. BARNETT
March 18, 2008

Today, the Supreme Court will hear oral arguments in the case of Heller v. District of Columbia, a suit brought by several D.C. citizens contending that the ban on the possession of operable firearms inside one's home violates the Second Amendment. The Circuit Court of Appeals for D.C. agreed and held the ban to be unconstitutional. However it is decided, Heller is already historic. For the first time in recent memory, the Supreme Court will consider the original meaning of a significant passage of the Constitution unencumbered by its own prior decisions. The majority and dissenting opinions in this case will be taught in law schools for years to come. Here's a layman's guide to the significance of the case:

- Heller will be decided on originalist grounds. Among law professors, enforcing the original meaning of the Constitution is highly controversial. Critics of originalism deny that we should be ruled by the "dead hand of the past." They prefer following Supreme Court precedents that may or may not be consistent with original meaning. Any justice who today professes a commitment to originalism is branded a radical; and all Supreme Court nominees are now grilled on their commitment to the doctrine of stare decisis. But what are old precedents if not the "dead hand" of dead justices?

Significantly, then, both sides in Heller are making only originalist arguments. The challengers of the law contend that the original meaning of the Second Amendment protects an individual "right to keep and bear arms" that "shall not be infringed." In response, the District does not contend that this right is outmoded and that the Second Amendment should now be reinterpreted in light of changing social conditions. Not at all. It contends instead that, because the original intention of the Framers of the Second Amendment was to protect the continued existence of "a well regulated militia," the right it protects was limited to the militia context.

So one thing is certain. Whoever prevails, Heller will be an originalist decision. This shows that originalism remains the proper method of identifying the meaning of the Constitution.

- The Second Amendment protects an individual right. In the 1960s, gun control advocates dismissed the Second Amendment as protecting the so-called "collective right" of states to preserve their militias -- notwithstanding that, everywhere else in the Constitution, a "right" of "the people" refers to an individual right of persons, and the 10th Amendment expressly distinguishes between "the people" and "the states." Now even the District asserts the new theory that, while this right is individual, it is "conditioned" on a citizen being an active participant in an organized militia. Therefore, whoever wins, Heller won't be based on a "collective" right of the states.

Still, a ruling upholding an unconditioned individual right to arms and invalidating the ban is unlikely to have much effect on current gun laws. Here's why:

- Heller is a federal case. Because the District of Columbia is a federal entity, Heller provides a clean application of the Second Amendment which, like the rest of the Bill of Rights, originally applied only to the federal government. Before a state or municipal gun law can be challenged, the Supreme Court will have to decide that the right to keep and bear arms is also protected by the 14th Amendment, which limits state powers.

Nowadays, the Court asks whether a particular right is "incorporated" into the Due Process Clause of the 14th Amendment, an unpopular doctrine among some conservatives. Of course, after recognizing an unconditioned individual right in Heller, affording it less protection from states than other enumerated rights now receive would be awkward -- especially given the overwhelming evidence that the right to keep and bear arms was among the "privileges or immunities of citizens" to which the 14th Amendment refers. Those who wrote the amendment were concerned about enabling black freeman and white Republicans in the South to protect themselves from violence, including terrorism by local militias.

Finally, Heller involves a complete ban on operable firearms in the home. No state has a comparable law. And under current Supreme Court doctrine, even the First Amendment rights of speech and assembly are subject to reasonable time, place, and manner regulations. So too would be gun rights.

But although the implications of striking down the D.C. gun ban are limited, a decision upholding an unqualified individual right in Heller would still be a significant victory for individual rights and constitutionalism. To shrink from enforcing a clear mandate of the Constitution -- as, sadly, the Supreme Court has often done in the past -- would create a new precedent that would be far more dangerous to liberty than any weapon in the hands of a citizen.

Mr. Barnett is a professor of constitutional law at the Georgetown Law Center and a counsel on an amicus brief in Heller filed by the Academics for the Second Amendment.

Doktor_Jeep
03-18-2008, 08:56 AM
A gaggle of robed wannabee gods on a branch of a failed regime think they can determine what our rights are.

What they say means nothing. They rule against it, they still have to enforce it. Do the minions of the state want to die over some decree passed by these compartmentalized fools? Let those who willingly do so die then.

And if they rule in favor of it, there will not be any additional freedom coming from it, because the other branches pick and choose any ruling they like and pretend those they don't like never happened.

Primbs
03-18-2008, 09:35 AM
There were some large crowds last night camping out in front of the Supreme Court.

crackyflipside
03-18-2008, 10:33 AM
This is going to get really ugly if they rule the wrong way....

maeqFREEDOMfree
03-18-2008, 11:13 AM
This is going to get really ugly if they rule the wrong way....

+1

Dark_Horse_Rider
03-18-2008, 12:35 PM
I wonder if they are aware how many folks will see it as a declaration of war against Americans if they rule against the 2nd amendment, and just how many are willing to die for their 2nd amendment rights.

Dr.3D
03-18-2008, 01:04 PM
I sure hope this doesn't turn into a civil war. :(

Doktor_Jeep
03-18-2008, 04:35 PM
Looks like so far at least a non-answer.

In a few days they will rule the original case, which willl spell out that all the little socialist and fascist burgs can ban certain weapons of tell you you cannot have your pistol for defense.

And all the yuppies of the cities will outvote the countryside, as usual, and vote for gun grabbers, as usual.

(but if the SHTF, the cites will not have food, so remember, country folk, the treatment you got from the cities in the past).

madengr
03-18-2008, 04:53 PM
Sunday evening I ordered 2000 .45 bullets from Dillon for reloading. I called them this afternoon to see if it shipped and they said they didn't even have the order entered yet since they had 300 orders over the weekend. Something is up.

Those bullets go with the 8# powder and 10,000 primers which should be here tonight from Midway.

maeqFREEDOMfree
03-18-2008, 07:11 PM
Sunday evening I ordered 2000 .45 bullets from Dillon for reloading. I called them this afternoon to see if it shipped and they said they didn't even have the order entered yet since they had 300 orders over the weekend. Something is up.

Those bullets go with the 8# powder and 10,000 primers which should be here tonight from Midway.

i ordered some rounds from ammoman.com and my order is "delayed" as well. people are paying attention and this might be proof.

dircha
03-18-2008, 08:10 PM
The clear original intent of the 2nd amendment is that the federal government may not in any way limit the independent right of individuals to keep and bear arms of any sort. That includes machine guns. That includes explosives.

Any way you look at it, existing federal firearms regulations are unconstitutional.

That's why the Bush administration's weasel, Clement, was up there trying as hard as he could urging the court to compromise its ruling.

This case will not be decided on original intent. It will be decided based on whatever is necessary to keep the powers that be content.

Cowlesy
03-18-2008, 08:40 PM
Looks like the SCOTUS sided with gun owners.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080318/D8VG2PR00.html

I think they knew there'd be a general revolt if they proclaimed that the second amendment was not speaking to individuals' rights.