True liberty = dissolution of all countries??

[MeinStreamNeedYaMoney]

Think about it. If we were to declare all countries to no longer exist, wouldnt that be ultimate freedom?? w/o countries, there would be no war, no fed stealing money, just one United Earth (NOT an EARTH UNION, no governing body controlling anyone) everyone would live at peace and work together in harmony towards a better future. True?? I think so. Any comments?

[cageybee]

we would still need a government because there are evil people out there.

[Banana]

It would be much better if governments were always small; say no larger than a town. This way, the politician/bureaucrat/whatever is always a neighbor and therefore well known by everyone within his district.

Much more difficult to have a corrupt government when everyone knows everyone else. This is why they like to have a distant capitol so they can do their shady deals without having to explain to their neighbor why they weren't home for dinner.

[MeinStreamNeedYaMoney]

we would still need a government because there are evil people out there.

privitely funded defense organizations, minutemen, police, etc?? think otuside the box. believe.

[cageybee]

privitely funded defense organizations, minutemen, police, etc?? think otuside the box. believe.

oh, i believe, there is no doubt about it, but there are evil people that are out there.

[FreeTraveler]

we would still need a government because there are evil people out there.

Yes, there are... and the most evil ones ARE WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT!

Even the mob was never large enough to build battleships, missles, and nuclear bombs. The theft and murder committed by petty thieves is a tiny fraction of that committed by governments.

If you MUST have a government, a county or neighborhood government is as large as makes sense, with some minimal co-ordination with other such organizations. Anything larger is out of control of the citizens it's supposed to serve. Mayors and police chiefs are much more responsive to the marketplace for their services than Governors, Senators, Presidents and Generals.

[pcosmar]

An interesting utopia.
Just how would you go about changing human nature to make this work?

[Cowlesy]

Welcome to the board.

[cageybee]

Yes, there are... and the most evil ones ARE WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT!

Even the mob was never large enough to build battleships, missles, and nuclear bombs. The theft and murder committed by petty thieves is a tiny fraction of that committed by governments.

If you MUST have a government, a county or neighborhood government is as large as makes sense, with some minimal co-ordination with other such organizations. Anything larger is out of control of the citizens it's supposed to serve. Mayors and police chiefs are much more responsive to the marketplace for their services than Governors, Senators, Presidents and Generals.

so, do you propose anarchy 99 with no governments throughout the world? :)

[FreeTraveler]

so, do you propose anarchy 99 with no governments throughout the world? :)

You betcha. Who can do more damage, a bunch of small, decentralized gangs that have to risk resistance when they attempt to steal from honest people, or a massive, centralized gang that can legally point a gun at you and take what it wants?

Governments were the number one cause of death in the 20th century. I think it's a safe bet the same will be true in the 21st.

In my 20's, I was a statist, but believed the wrong people were in control. After another three decades, I know from experience that government by it's very nature cannot achieve anything but misappropriation of resources at the point of a gun.

Harry Browne's "Why Government Doesn't Work (http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119977.pdf)" is a great read on the topic.

[Ex Post Facto]

I'm not willing to let go of this nation yet. Our constitution is a damn finely drafted document. If our government followed it, or lobbying groups attempting to influence politicians to change it, then we would have the greatest country again.

I would rather propose a 4th check and balance on our federal government. The 4th check is the people. Politicians serve at the privalege of the people not the other way around. We vote them in, there should be a recall procedure on everyone of them.

[cageybee]

You betcha. Who can do more damage, a bunch of small, decentralized gangs that have to risk resistance when they attempt to steal from honest people, or a massive, centralized gang that can legally point a gun at you and take what it wants?

Governments were the number one cause of death in the 20th century. I think it's a safe bet the same will be true in the 21st.

i wholeheartedly agree with you that governments are the problem that prevents humanity to live in peace.

but i think our problem is not governments but greed. as long as money has power over people, then there will never be peace on earth. if everyone in the world would stop putting value on money or on finer material things and would stop talking about economy all day long, then there would be peace.

[FreeTraveler]

i wholeheartedly agree with you that governments are the problem that prevents humanity to live in peace.

but i think our problem is not governments but greed. as long as money has power over people, then there will never be peace on earth. if everyone in the world would stop putting value on money or on finer material things and would stop talking about economy all day long, then there would be peace.

There are only two ways to allocate resources; the free market or by some form of governmental decree. If money has no value, then you have no way to allocate resources, and whoever is the top thug gets to make all the decisions. That hasn't brought peace to any socialist or communist country yet.

[cageybee]

That hasn't brought peace to any socialist or communist country yet.

only because america does not want communists to live in peace. Nazi's keep portraying communists as evil-totalitarians, but that's not true. let me explain why...

Russia, as of right now, is a capitalist nation, but, even though they are capitalists, they still have a communist party in their parliament on top of all other parties. so, are communists really that bad??? no.

in our congress though, we only have dems and reps, wtf??

after trying an american way of life for 9 years, russian people are not very happy with capitalism.

also, ask any ex-yugoslavian, and they'll tell you that they had a great life and that yugoslavia was broken because of america's involvement.

closed societies are bad for usa, because it limits the world resources that can be exploited by american capitalists; therefore, we go around and spread democracy.

"If American democracy ceases to move forward as a living force, seeking day and night by peaceful means to better the lot of our citizens, fascism will grow in strength in our land." - Franklin D. Roosevelt

so, roosevelt's words and american actions show that it is actually the USA that's totalitarian and not communists.

[MeinStreamNeedYaMoney]

There are only two ways to allocate resources; the free market or by some form of governmental decree. If money has no value, then you have no way to allocate resources, and whoever is the top thug gets to make all the decisions. That hasn't brought peace to any socialist or communist country yet.

exactly.

who here agrees that anyone who aligns to the tenets of socialism is a traitor and not a patriot and does not belong in this country!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:


god bless the constitution

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

[cageybee]

exactly.

who here agrees that anyone who aligns to the tenets of socialism is a traitor and not a patriot and does not belong in this country!!!! :mad::mad::mad::mad:


god bless the constitution

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

one of the key and distinct elements of Nazism is anti-communism.

[MeinStreamNeedYaMoney]

one of the key and distinct elements of Nazism is anti-communism.

ONE of they key elemnts of communism is evil, taxation, jingoism, non-american school of thought and liberalism... The nazi's got some right (as thay sey, Hitler kept the Trains running atleast...

[cageybee]

ONE of they key elemnts of communism is evil, taxation, jingoism, non-american school of thought and liberalism... The nazi's got some right (as thay sey, Hitler kept the Trains running atleast...

ok, Nazi, let it be as you say.