Romney's Illinois chairman takes Ron Paul sign out and throws it down

[Sean]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-straw_poll_web_aug17,1,5128267.story

"Paul's libertarian stylings and campaign of strict interpretation of the Constitution has earned him an unorthodox band of sign-carrying supporters. They frequently interrupted TV reports of the event and at one point, Romney's Illinois chairman, state Sen. Dan Rutherford (R-Chenoa), ripped a sign out of one Paul supporter's hands and threw it on the ground."



I wonder just what interrupting TV reports means. Romney supporters are probably angry that there are more Paul supporters showing up around cameras. I wish I can see video of this. Romney's chairman wanting all the media attention and gets mad at a Ron Paul supporter.

[B964]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-JCyiBNao

Near the end is where the guy is stepping on the Ron Paul sign.

One thing I would say is that instead of just chanting Ron Paul, we should be taking out more of the issues. A parade of people with the front person bull horning the issues, followed by "Ron Paul for president" by everyone else.

[quickmike]

Dan Rutherford

Chenoa, IL 61726-0000 (map)

Tel.: (815) 945-4901

http://phone.people.yahoo.com/py/lg:us/lc:us/psPhoneEntry.py?firstname=Dan&lastname=Rutherford&middleName=&street=&city=Chenoa&state=IL&zip=61726-0000&phone=8159454901

Just in case anyone wanted to call and kindly thank the man for being such a "swell" guy:D

[Johnnybags]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-JCyiBNao

Near the end is where the guy is stepping on the Ron Paul sign.

One thing I would say is that instead of just chanting Ron Paul, we should be taking out more of the issues. A parade of people with the front person bull horning the issues, followed by "Ron Paul for president" by everyone else..


That guys heart rate was probably 220 bpm's. We are starting to annoy the old guard who simply do not realize the so called frontrunners cannot be elected. I think the lady asked him if he was the strong arm of the party? LOL.

[Sean]

Lol, Romney's campaign chairman is a tool. Look at the anger in his face.

[Sean]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-JCyiBNao



One thing I would say is that instead of just chanting Ron Paul, we should be taking out more of the issues. A parade of people with the front person bull horning the issues, followed by "Ron Paul for president" by everyone else.


Sounds like a good idea. Most people don't know anything about a candidate or their positions. This would give people an idea who Ron Paul is and what he supports.

[philipsantamaria]

first they ignore you
then they laugh at you
then they fight you
then you win

we've been ignored and laughed at
and now the fight has begun

[Cowlesy]

Yeah, that guy was clearly a jackass. Hopefully no RP supporter's action precipitated that response. Even if it did, freezing out those frames of him and getting it circulated could definitely be helpful.

I still think that laypeople associate RP supporters' demeanor with that of Ron Paul. That being the case, it's always best to be as sweet as peach pie when speaking to those who know nothing about him, or doing public demonstrations. I wish there was a way to convey to those people who everyone marches by that the message has been so inspirational that it makes politics fun, and that people who march by yelling "Ron Paul" are having a great time, and are not "angry at the establishment" (though they may be).

[fj45lvr]

kind of a two edged sword here........nice to see people that are excited (with good reason) for the hope of a man like paul as prez.......at the same time I am somewhat concerned too that like in Iowa that Paul supporters may be potentially a little "rude" in their behavior which could end up hurting Paul.....I could never imagine Paul himself doing that to others (if in fact paul supporters were disrupting others that may have wanted to have a conversation or potentially interrupting a speech (like they did in Iowa which = "no class"

there's a way to be respectful and enthusiastic.....paul supporters must realize that they have to energize the republican base unless they actually believe that there is going to be enough folks that are going to "register" republican to overcome the perennial GOP voters

Isn't it funny that the MOST CONSERVATIVE candidate has more of the "hippie" retreads show up for support?? its almost mind blowing and unbelievable. Let's hope that the "old guard" isn't deluded into thinking that somehow PAUL is just a "left wing conspiracy"....that would just be TRAGIC. The Conservatives NEED PAUL to actually win and stop the socialists.

[10thAmendmentMan]

If someone cuts out the beginning and just posts just the Romney-Guy-Standing-On-A-Sign-While-Pouting bit, that would get a lot of attention across the internet.

[fj45lvr]

the Tribune stated,

"Paul's libertarian stylings and campaign of strict interpretation of the Constitution has earned him an unorthodox band of sign-carrying supporters."

lets just hope that "unorthodox band" means has more than just a pulse instead of what I am afraid it means: interupting "assholes".

We want folks to see support and VOTE for PAUL not just be "activists".

[quickmike]

kind of a two edged sword here........nice to see people that are excited (with good reason) for the hope of a man like paul as prez.......at the same time I am somewhat concerned too that like in Iowa that Paul supporters may be potentially a little "rude" in their behavior which could end up hurting Paul.....I could never imagine Paul himself doing that to others (if in fact paul supporters were disrupting others that may have wanted to have a conversation or potentially interrupting a speech (like they did in Iowa which = "no class"

there's a way to be respectful and enthusiastic.....paul supporters must realize that they have to energize the republican base unless they actually believe that there is going to be enough folks that are going to "register" republican to overcome the perennial GOP voters

Isn't it funny that the MOST CONSERVATIVE candidate has more of the "hippie" retreads show up for support?? its almost mind blowing and unbelievable. Let's hope that the "old guard" isn't deluded into thinking that somehow PAUL is just a "left wing conspiracy"....that would just be TRAGIC. The Conservatives NEED PAUL to actually win and stop the socialists.


Let me tell you something about alot of "republicans" ive encountered in Illinois. In states like South Carolina, Illinois republicans would be considered liberal democrats. Its a whole different grading scale. Just about every week when im doing door to door flyer handouts, I encounter at least a couple of so called republicans who say we cant get rid of the income tax, we need public schools, and we need some kind of government sponsored health care system.

I think Tucker Carlson and Pat Buchanan were right when they said we might "need to start a new party" and bring Ron Paul on board. The gap between republicanism and true conservatism is growing by the day. Its starting to look like democrats and republicans are just seperated by the war issue and they pretty much agree on every other socialist issue for the most part.

At least thats what I see in Illinois, one of the most socialist states in the whole country, beating out even California and New York in my opinion. They need to change their state flag to include the hammer and sickle pretty soon if they want it to mean anything.

[Dustancostine]

I'm telling you that he better be glad I wasn't there. He would have been moved off that sign.

[Akus]

I'm telling you that he better be glad I wasn't there. He would have been moved off that sign.

We don't need that kind of behaviour. If Ron Paul loses, the joke is on HIM first and foremost. He was acting like a child, we need to be level above and definitely do not want to instigate any physical violence.

[Sean]

the Tribune stated,

"Paul's libertarian stylings and campaign of strict interpretation of the Constitution has earned him an unorthodox band of sign-carrying supporters."

lets just hope that "unorthodox band" means has more than just a pulse instead of what I am afraid it means: interupting "assholes".

We want folks to see support and VOTE for PAUL not just be "activists".

I think what is going on is that Ron Paul supporters are interrupting the MSM's script. You see there shouldn't be more Ron Paul signs than there are Romney signs. That just looks bad on TV.

[ButchHowdy]

That guy stepping on the sign looked exactly like the Saturday Night Live parody of Chicagoeans!

I can hear him saying

"Da Bears"

[quickmike]

I'm telling you that he better be glad I wasn't there. He would have been moved off that sign.

I wish I was there too. I wouldnt have touched him because it would make RP supporters look bad, but I DEFINITELY would have gotten up about 2 inches nose to nose in his face and mocked him in my best hillbilly voice saying something like "yeah, im a mitt romney s'porter cuz he has gud hair and im a sheep who lykes his imige, hell, we need a republic'n who acts like a dem'crat............yuk yuk yuk" and just wait for him to take a shot at me. I shoulda been there with ya man. We could have done the old "ill get on my knees behind him and you push him back" thing.:D

[Dustancostine]

We don't need that kind of behaviour. If Ron Paul loses, the joke is on HIM first and foremost. He was acting like a child, we need to be level above and definitely do not want to instigate any physical violence.

He was in effect stealing private property. I'm not saying I would have fought him. But I would have reached down and lifted his hoof like a horse and removed the sign.

[constituent]

really though.. what kinda dope was that guy (sen.) on?

when you see somebody behaving in that sort of irrational manner, staring blankly into space... well, it's like that old propaganda film [replayed in and on Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, mentioned in several of his other books] says, "know your dope fiend."

really though, that kind of person is dangerous. just give them their small victory, get it on tape and move on.

have you seen the Bloomberg train ride clip yet? Bloomberg had the same look on his face toward the end that this guy had... almost like they feel like crying... maybe it's booze, I don't know... but these people are not in their right minds.

[jonahtrainer]

.


That guys heart rate was probably 220 bpm's. We are starting to annoy the old guard who simply do not realize the so called frontrunners cannot be elected. I think the lady asked him if he was the strong arm of the party? LOL.

This was clearly a Trespass to Chattels because he is intentionally interfering with the sign owner's lawful use and possession of the Ron Paul sign.

In addition, it appeared as if the person who wanted their sign back may have felt a fear of an imminent harmful or offensive touching from the guy (he did look obstinate and was guarding the sign he had illegally taken) should he attempt to repossess the sign. Therefore, a cause of action for assault may be raised.

How did Grumpy get possession of the sign? Did he ever make a physical contact with the person or with the sign while being held by the person?

I know politics gets passionate but that is no excuse for violating the law and property rights of others. Grumpy's behavior is illegal and an infringement of the sign owner's legal rights. The great Justice Cardozo said, "The enforcement of our legal rights is never a legal wrong and may often be a moral duty." Plus, wouldn't that be a great story on Digg!


Just in case anyone wanted to call and kindly thank the man for being such a "swell" guy

Wish I were authorized to practice in Illinois as I would litigate this case pro-bono. The YouTube would look wonderful before a jury should it be admitted. He would get more than a 'kindly thank' you from me!

[Dustancostine]

I know there is someone on these boards named "Chicago Lawyer", maybe he can do it.

[fj45lvr]

wish we had the "whole incident" on video cause it may make the details more clear. I smell a rat in the wood pile.

[angelatc]

I'm not sure that's Rutherford in the video. If you read the text, it says that Rutherford took the sign and handed it to that guy.

I emailed Senator Rutherford and politely asked him for his side of the story. If Romney supporter was repeatedly thrusting a sign into my face, I'd probably do the same thing.

[shrugged0106]

Is there a version of you tube with just the "incident" on it exclusively? Believe it or not, I'd get Guilianni's campaign would jump on it becuse of the recent immigration bickerring between his and "Big Love's" campaign.

[angelatc]

I'm telling you that he better be glad I wasn't there. He would have been moved off that sign.

That's what they want. The very second violence becomes a factor, guess which camp will get the bad press?

The best thing to do would be to have everybody make a deliberate circle around him. Them, if you could get Rutherford in there too.

Read up on "The CHicago 7" to see how these things work. Note that the feds actually planted guys in the movement to start violence on behalf of the movement. DOn't tlet them win like that.

[Cowlesy]

That's what they want. The very second violence becomes a factor, guess which camp will get the bad press?


PRE-FREAKING-CISELY.

[PhillyRevolution]

Hes got millions more coming.

[jj111]

He was in effect stealing private property. I'm not saying I would have fought him. But I would have reached down and lifted his hoof like a horse and removed the sign.

Far more effective is what happened: the goon was videotaped, put on YouTube for everybody to see what he was doing, and the RP supporters did not stoop to his level and did not escalate the situation or commit any assault.

What did this goon accomplish? Absolutely nothing other than ruin a $4 sign. But the video of capturing this guy acting like a thug, and the RP people not stooping to his level was priceless.

We must at all times be non-violent. Even if you get a provacateur in there committing a violent act in a crowd, I recommend you do not get involved, stand back, and videotape the entire thing.

We do not want a media story where we get tagged as violent ourselves.

[jj111]

The pen is mightier than the sword, and our best defense in crowd situations are our videocameras.

[themanhere]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-JCyiBNao

Near the end is where the guy is stepping on the Ron Paul sign.


Classic neocon behavior.

[jasonhlasvegas]

It doesn't look like the Dan Rutherford on here:

http://www.danrutherford.org/

I can't find a picture of his profile though, and that is all I see in the youtube video. He also has a hat on and a mustache so it is really hard to tell.

[LibertyEagle]

Far more effective is what happened: the goon was videotaped, put on YouTube for everybody to see what he was doing, and the RP supporters did not stoop to his level and did not escalate the situation or commit any assault.

What did this goon accomplish? Absolutely nothing other than ruin a $4 sign. But the video of capturing this guy acting like a thug, and the RP people not stooping to his level was priceless.

We must at all times be non-violent. Even if you get a provacateur in there committing a violent act in a crowd, I recommend you do not get involved, stand back, and videotape the entire thing.

We do not want a media story where we get tagged as violent ourselves.

Absolutely. And we should expect them to do just that at some point in the future.

[LibertyEagle]

Vote here....

http://danrutherford.cmititestbank.com/2008PresPrimary/vote.asp

[jasonhlasvegas]

If that really is Dan Rutherford we should present the footage to the media in Illinois. No elected representative should be engaging in such behavior.

[Sean]

Apparently that guy is not Dan Rutherford. Dan took the sign away from someone and handed it to that guy who then steps on it. Dan though is complicit in the whole affair. It would be funny if an Illinois meetup group could swamp Dan's neighborhood with Ron Paul signs that read don't tread on the Constitution.

[LibertyEagle]

Apparently that guy is not Dan Rutherford. Dan took the sign away from someone and handed it to that guy who then steps on it. Dan though is complicit in the whole affair. It would be funny if an Illinois meetup group could swamp Dan's neighborhood with Ron Paul signs that read don't tread on the Constitution.

Why? He's not going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. Our time would be much better spent handing out campaign literature to real people.

Why are we approaching this whole campaign like it's some kind of huge peace protest? We have to embrace the Republican Party. Even the jackasses. We should not stoop to their level. Always remember we are seeking the Republican Party nomination. Republicans aren't all bad. Far from it. Most are just like us.

C'mon people, we don't have much time. If we don't start getting campaign literature in the hands of the voting public, we are going to lose. And if we do, we will have no one to blame but ourselves.

[Revolution9]

I got a message for this political goon squad..

Don't Tread On Me!

Randy

[bbachtung]

Apparently that guy is not Dan Rutherford. Dan took the sign away from someone and handed it to that guy who then steps on it. Dan though is complicit in the whole affair. It would be funny if an Illinois meetup group could swamp Dan's neighborhood with Ron Paul signs that read don't tread on the Constitution.

Especially in light of this entry in Dan Rutherford's diary (really, he keeps a diary):



Governor's Jogging Route Takes Him Past Hostile Signs

http://www.danrutherford.org/IMG_1563_edited.jpg



What's good for the goose . . .

[Sean]

Why? He's not going to vote for Ron Paul anyway. Our time would be much better spent handing out campaign literature to real people.



The point is to do a big Ron Paul push in his own neighborhood. You don't think there are Republican voters in Dan's neighborhood?

[surf]

i emailed this to Rutherford. Hope it's well received....

Dear Mr. Rutherford,
After reading of the events this past week at the Illinois Straw Poll, I want you to know that I am ashamed that you are a member of my Republican Party.

Please restore some dignity to the GOP and issue an apology to the individuals for the childish acts you performed.

Sincerely,
xxx
48th District PCO
Redmond, Washington

[slantedview]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fl-JCyiBNao

Near the end is where the guy is stepping on the Ron Paul sign.

One thing I would say is that instead of just chanting Ron Paul, we should be taking out more of the issues. A parade of people with the front person bull horning the issues, followed by "Ron Paul for president" by everyone else.

I agree, this is a good idea.

[slantedview]

That video is incredible by the way, spread it around!

[slantedview]

Can someone extract some frames from this, write up a blog post, and get it on digg?

[walt]

If someone cuts out the beginning and just posts just the Romney-Guy-Standing-On-A-Sign-While-Pouting bit, that would get a lot of attention across the internet.

yes please

[slantedview]

If anyone has an FLV editor, you can download and edit the current video (save the video as a .flv file):

http://youtube.com/get_video?video_id=Fl-JCyiBNao&t=OEgsToPDskLn5O7L6vhy3VP1FPWghpNW&sk=y6uaBQDsCwpxDB64juPIhQR

[tmg19103]

Just loaded short version onto YouTube and they are processing now.

[fj45lvr]

You guys are totally out of line IMHO....you don't see any of what actually happened in that video....for all we know someone was sticking that Ron Paul sign where it shouldn't have been prior to be stepped on. From the way the video looks to me, I think the zealous Paul supporters were more like "protesters" than there to join the Republicans proud of Paul and wanting the Party to consider voting for him.......

acting like rude activists is NO WAY going to endear these folks to Dr. Paul (and I am sure he would be ashamed).....we NEED republicans to win a REPUBLICAN PRIMARY....

GROW UP

[fj45lvr]

Surf what are you ashamed of???

Maybe you should consider that some people there for Paul might need to apologize and you should be ashamed of them.

this is ridiculous unless you saw "the whole story" and not some "snippet" taken out of context.



i emailed this to Rutherford. Hope it's well received....

Dear Mr. Rutherford,
After reading of the events this past week at the Illinois Straw Poll, I want you to know that I am ashamed that you are a member of my Republican Party.

Please restore some dignity to the GOP and issue an apology to the individuals for the childish acts you performed.

Sincerely,
xxx
48th District PCO
Redmond, Washington

[slantedview]

You guys are totally out of line IMHO....you don't see any of what actually happened in that video....for all we know someone was sticking that Ron Paul sign where it shouldn't have been prior to be stepped on. From the way the video looks to me, I think the zealous Paul supporters were more like "protesters" than there to join the Republicans proud of Paul and wanting the Party to consider voting for him.......

acting like rude activists is NO WAY going to endear these folks to Dr. Paul (and I am sure he would be ashamed).....we NEED republicans to win a REPUBLICAN PRIMARY....

GROW UP
So we're jumping to conclusions, but you're not? You must know exactly what happened then? Unless you're somehow more informed about this situation than the rest of us, you're in no position telling anyone to grow up, or anything else.

It's hard to imagine a situation that would truly warrant someone grabbing a sign from a protester, throwing it on the ground, standing on it, and refusing to move. Really.

[Dustancostine]

You guys are totally out of line IMHO....you don't see any of what actually happened in that video....for all we know someone was sticking that Ron Paul sign where it shouldn't have been prior to be stepped on. From the way the video looks to me, I think the zealous Paul supporters were more like "protesters" than there to join the Republicans proud of Paul and wanting the Party to consider voting for him.......

acting like rude activists is NO WAY going to endear these folks to Dr. Paul (and I am sure he would be ashamed).....we NEED republicans to win a REPUBLICAN PRIMARY....

GROW UP

Talking about jumping to conclusions. And no matter what the supporter was doing you do not have a right to assault someone or to steal their property.

Why don't you grow up and read the Constitution.

--Dustan

[LibertyEagle]

And the way we can do that is to WIN THE UPCOMING TEXAS STRAW POLL.

To do that, your help is badly needed. There is an effort underway to call all 17,000 of the delegates who are allowed to vote in this straw poll.

Please help!

Everything you need to sign-up and get started is in the first post of the following thread.
http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=12495

If we can pull this off folks, this will be HUGE. Again, please help.

[fj45lvr]

Unless you're somehow more informed about this situation than the rest of us, you're in no position telling anyone to grow up, or anything else.

dude.....think about it.

Sending off a letter to this guys office from seeing this video clip??

I have yet to hear or see anything that tells "the whole story"

YOU are CORRECT about me not "knowing" but look at this thread and it is ridiculous that folks are "jumping to conclusions". Do you like how the guys are telling him "fuck it dude"? that's just ridiculous.

that's like the assertion that Paul is racist because he should know the content of his newsletters.l

[tmg19103]

Shortened version of Goon Gate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kU8ZbMYgyc

[quickmike]

Given time to think about it. I think it would have been a good idea for the guy who owned the sign to bend down, act like he was trying to get his sign, then stand up real quick and "accidentally"nail him in the chin with the back of his head. That way it would just look like an accident. LOL Pricks like that deserve no less.

[tmg19103]

I think the video shows how polite and respectful RP supporters are and what a thug Romney supporter and IL Senator Dan Rutherford is.

Who is this very large guy stepping on the sign that Rutherford handed him? Some paid henchman of Rutherford's?

[torchbearer]

Shortened version of Goon Gate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8kU8ZbMYgyc

SWEEEEEEEEEEEEEET!

[Wyurm]

So we're jumping to conclusions, but you're not? You must know exactly what happened then? Unless you're somehow more informed about this situation than the rest of us, you're in no position telling anyone to grow up, or anything else.

It's hard to imagine a situation that would truly warrant someone grabbing a sign from a protester, throwing it on the ground, standing on it, and refusing to move. Really.

Romney's people were in the wrong, there were tons of state police there all they had to do is ask one to help out if there was a problem, rather than taking matters into their own hands and making a scene. However, and keep in mind I was actually there, the RP supporters weren't in the right either. Instead of picking the whole thing apart, let me just say what my wife who is not a Ron Paul supporter said about it as she was waiting for me on a bench directly across from where this happened.

She told me that after seeing how the Ron Paul supporters act, she has no intention of ever supporting Ron Paul. It took me a good long while to convince her that its a minority of supporters that become agressive and cross the line. She also told me that the guy who had his sign stood on was screaming and swearing directly infront of another supporter and his children. She said the man covered his children's ears and asked the angry supporter if that was necessary.

I stayed out of it, I'm not going to allow myself to be associated with that sort of behavior. Its good to support Ron Paul, but not good to push it to the point of giving him a negative appearance. My wife also said that the chairman who ripped the sign out of that guys hand was talking on the phone to Romney asking him where he was (Romney did show up later, gah he is so out of touch with most American's). She said the chairman told Romney that Ron Paul's campaign manager had some very good points, but his supporters are insane. I know you wont care about that, but it is good to know what your opponents are saying about you. Also, what some call insanity isnt really insanity its just passion.

So what do I think you should do. Well, I think you should be aware that both parties were in the wrong and I do actually hate that jerk that was standing on the sign. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it because I know it was a situation where most everyone was being respectful, yet about 3 or 4 on both sides turned it into a bad thing. You of course can complain if you want especially if you weren't there. Definitely feel free to complain about the guy that stood on the sign cause hes just plain repulsive in person.

[Sean]

Romney people are upset because they are targeting these straw polls as media events for themselves. They don't want any other candidates actively competing in these events. Romney winning this small poll generated free publicity for him. His only other active competition is Ron Paul. When the cameras are rolling they don't want Ron Paul signs around.

[quickmike]

Romney people are upset because they are targeting these straw polls as media events for themselves. They don't want any other candidates actively competing in these events. Romney winning this small poll generated free publicity for him. His only other active competition is Ron Paul. When the cameras are rolling they don't want Ron Paul signs around.


I suggest everyone bring RP signs to Romney events any chance they get, especially when there are cameras around. As much as Mitt is on tv, thats tons of free name recognition for Ron Paul.:D Everywhere they see Mitt, they also see the Ron Paul name. Subliminal messages do wonders.

[BLS]

dude.....think about it.

Sending off a letter to this guys office from seeing this video clip??

I have yet to hear or see anything that tells "the whole story"

YOU are CORRECT about me not "knowing" but look at this thread and it is ridiculous that folks are "jumping to conclusions". Do you like how the guys are telling him "fuck it dude"? that's just ridiculous.

that's like the assertion that Paul is racist because he should know the content of his newsletters.l

OK...I've made my assertation of you. More on that later.

First off, what part of him stepping on someone else's property is not a violation to you?

2nd..LISTEN to the video....They didn't tell him to 'fuck it dude'. They said, 'gimme my sign back'...and he wouldn't...so the guy said 'fuck it dude...whatever then'.

Either you're a well control troll from the other campaign, or you're worse....and I'm not going to go into name calling because I've lost my cool here once, and I'd prefer to not do it again...

But if you were sitting in front of me....you'd know exactly what I think.


Oh, and to whoever said that if they'd been there, this guy would've lost that sign.....I would've helped you.

[kickzman]

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-straw_poll_web_aug17,1,5128267.story

"Paul's libertarian stylings and campaign of strict interpretation of the Constitution has earned him an unorthodox band of sign-carrying supporters. They frequently interrupted TV reports of the event and at one point, Romney's Illinois chairman, state Sen. Dan Rutherford (R-Chenoa), ripped a sign out of one Paul supporter's hands and threw it on the ground."



I wonder just what interrupting TV reports means. Romney supporters are probably angry that there are more Paul supporters showing up around cameras. I wish I can see video of this. Romney's chairman wanting all the media attention and gets mad at a Ron Paul supporter.

If I was the one holding the sign I would've knocked the old fart to the ground and spat on his face....Ok that would look bad, nevermind.:p

[Ozwest]

Unfortunately,the democratic system (or whatever you want to call it) is not so democratic. Ron Paul's campaign has to work within these perameters not as a matter of choice but necessity. Nonetheless,it should be obvious that victory will never be achieved by "towing the Party Line". There is a stirring in America and it's nearing a perfect storm for Ron Paul. Whilst nobody wants "bad press" or to step on the "establishments" toes (wait ti'll he wins) I believe the controlled aggression of Ron Paul supporters will ultimately win the day. If occasional shrapmetal damage should occur, so be it . After all this is a Revolution. Ozwest.

[fj45lvr]

OK...I've made my assertation of you. More on that later.

First off, what part of him stepping on someone else's property is not a violation to you?

2nd..LISTEN to the video....They didn't tell him to 'fuck it dude'. They said, 'gimme my sign back'...and he wouldn't...so the guy said 'fuck it dude...whatever then'.

Either you're a well control troll from the other campaign, or you're worse....and I'm not going to go into name calling because I've lost my cool here once, and I'd prefer to not do it again...

But if you were sitting in front of me....you'd know exactly what I think.


Oh, and to whoever said that if they'd been there, this guy would've lost that sign.....I would've helped you.


Make whatever assumptions you want about me but I had a "hunch" that that there is MORE to this story than what people are on the bandwagon about and as I suspected I was right:



"let me just say what my wife who is not a Ron Paul supporter said about it as she was waiting for me on a bench directly across from where this happened.

She told me that after seeing how the Ron Paul supporters act, she has no intention of ever supporting Ron Paul."

I quess I'm different than you because in my book "swearing" is just NO CLASS especially in a crowd with kids around.

It boils down to the fact that unfortunately this kind of behavior from "supposed" supporters of Paul will only detur him from winning the primary.....you get more "flies" with HONEY than VINEGAR.

It's ironic that folks have been whining about being labeled "kooks" and "peace train" and "hippie retreads" when this kind of NEGATIVE activism by some supposed "supporters" just galvanizes those characterizations.....as I said previously I am confident that Paul would be embarassed and upset about it himself (especially foul language).

Those Paul supporters that don't want to see his chances "hijacked" by disrespectful "punks" that have no respect for others need to take action.....(for all the conspiracy theorists out there maybe the typical "anachists" are latching onto Paul as a democratic strategy as they don't want to face Paul in the general election as the Rep. Nominee) These anarchists are real "classy" folks....they're probably more worried about drugs than anything else!!

[MGS]

I too wish people would calm down when supporting RP. Wishful thinking i suppose.

[fj45lvr]

I too wish people would calm down when supporting RP. Wishful thinking i suppose.

No...just wisdom.

being excited and loud is a good thing when done "properly"....unfortunately that little bit of discretion may be too much for many of these folks in the "revolution"....the code word may be "revolting" ...behavior that is.

thats a shame because these other candidates are bad for america even though their supporters (not as young and boistrous) may seem well collected and "reverant".....if we are going to be considered "irreverant" it is funny in a way since Paul himself is the polar opposite....as demonstated in the debates by NOT butting in rudly.....I heard people complain that he should have lowered himself to acting that way...I guess they don't really know the character of the man.

[tmg19103]

I do think some RP suporters need to chill a little. Loud and bombastic alone can turn more than a few people off.

I think we need some more friendly type chants and cheers, but I also realize this is a spontaneous kind of thing and that it is often hard to suggest new ideas to passionate people.

As for the guy who stepped on the sign he was dead wrong. Rutherford ripping a sign from someone was wrong. The RP supporter who had the signed ripped from him could have been obnoxious, but you don't rip a sign from him - you get the police.

I think the shortened video plays well for RP and shows his supporters as decent even if one used the F word in a non-threatening way.

Sounds like both sides may have made mistakes, but the vid makes RP supporters look more reasonable. That's what the vid looks like, but since I was not there, I can't speak for the big picture.

[jonahtrainer]

Make whatever assumptions you want about me but I had a "hunch" that that there is MORE to this story than what people are on the bandwagon about and as I suspected I was right:



"let me just say what my wife who is not a Ron Paul supporter said about it as she was waiting for me on a bench directly across from where this happened.

She told me that after seeing how the Ron Paul supporters act, she has no intention of ever supporting Ron Paul."

I quess I'm different than you because in my book "swearing" is just NO CLASS especially in a crowd with kids around.

It boils down to the fact that unfortunately this kind of behavior from "supposed" supporters of Paul will only detur him from winning the primary.....you get more "flies" with HONEY than VINEGAR.

It's ironic that folks have been whining about being labeled "kooks" and "peace train" and "hippie retreads" when this kind of NEGATIVE activism by some supposed "supporters" just galvanizes those characterizations.....as I said previously I am confident that Paul would be embarassed and upset about it himself (especially foul language).

Those Paul supporters that don't want to see his chances "hijacked" by disrespectful "punks" that have no respect for others need to take action.....(for all the conspiracy theorists out there maybe the typical "anachists" are latching onto Paul as a democratic strategy as they don't want to face Paul in the general election as the Rep. Nominee) These anarchists are real "classy" folks....they're probably more worried about drugs than anything else!!

You are right; there probably is more to the story. Perhaps if there were 'Ron Paul supporters' acting illegally then it may also be possible they were being paid by Romney's staff. As I understand it, none of the 'Ron Paul supporters' hold positions within the Ron Paul campaign and one of the fellows involved holds an official position within the Romney campaign. Sounds like this could be an event staged by Romney.


Romney people are upset because they are targeting these straw polls as media events for themselves. They don't want any other candidates actively competing in these events. Romney winning this small poll generated free publicity for him. His only other active competition is Ron Paul. When the cameras are rolling they don't want Ron Paul signs around.

I got a quick answer. Do not invite the public and do not invite other candidates. Have a straw poll with only one name on the ballot.

Realistically, this is politics. Part of politics is having the public involved and competing with ideas. Politics is about having a ideas that get people fired up to action. Politics is about having ideas that people will die for.

I think if all the Meetup groups started shadowing (http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=11306&highlight=shadowing)Romney events, like Orlando (http://ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=6693&highlight=shadowing), it would be great. Everywhere he turns there should be Ron Paul signs. Then, perhaps, Romney will confront the ideas Ron Paul puts forth. Good luck though, that would be like David v. Golliath.

[Wyurm]

No...just wisdom.

being excited and loud is a good thing when done "properly"....unfortunately that little bit of discretion may be too much for many of these folks in the "revolution"....the code word may be "revolting" ...behavior that is.

thats a shame because these other candidates are bad for america even though their supporters (not as young and boistrous) may seem well collected and "reverant".....if we are going to be considered "irreverant" it is funny in a way since Paul himself is the polar opposite....as demonstated in the debates by NOT butting in rudly.....I heard people complain that he should have lowered himself to acting that way...I guess they don't really know the character of the man.

I agree with you, but here's the catch. The message we are spreading is of freedom, and different people have a different understanding of what that means. I was raised to show everyone respect, yet be assertive. Ron Paul clearly exibits that as well, he makes sure his words have massive impact even when hes only allowed a few seconds in which to say them.

I would have rather seen people passing out slim jims to the romney supporters and explaining what Paul wants for our country. Remember most of these people aren't really supporters, they just want an all expenses paid day out. Heck, if I wasn't supporting anyone and I was offered somethng like that, I would take it too. All you have to do is press a button and you get a free meal, entry to the fair, a ride and even a free work shirt. How awsome is that?

So, when they sit there and see Ron Paul supporters in great numbers it looks good, when they see Ron Paul supporters showing passionate enthusiasm about their candidate, they want to be a part of that, and when they see Ron Paul supporters acting rude and disrespectful, they change their mind and decide they would rather not be a part of that. The Romney paid supporters are a good thing and we should treat them like what they are: future Ron Paul supporters that are getting a free vacation on Romney's tab.

However, I'm not going to try convincing anyone to be considerate that something you have to think about. Is what you're doing going to gain votes or lose votes? Is insisting on justice and your freedom of speech going to make sure you get to keep your freedoms in the future by having Ron Paul as president? or is it just a selfish indulgence that will cost you your freedoms in the future? Also, as has been pointed out before, some people arent actually Ron Paul supporters, but are trying to stir up trouble.

Anyway, its not necessary to dwell on it too much, the overall effect of the Straw poll was awsome. I spent about an hour total riding on the tram while holding my Ron Paul for president sign. It was like having an ad on the side of a bus. Ron Paul got a massive amount of name display time at the fair and all in all it was a very good experience.

[fj45lvr]

. Remember most of these people aren't really supporters, they just want an all expenses paid day out. .


I'd really like to know how many of his "supporters" are members of the LDS church?? I have no idea now but I suspect that he has a rather big captive audience there on the single issue of folks that VOTE and don't consider much beyond that. I have yet to read any reports on this aspect of his support.

[romelll]

Ring Ring:

"Hello, Sen. Dan Rutherford offices"

Gooten tag Frau, is Gruppenfuher Rutherford in?

Yes, would you like to talk to him?

Ya vol!

"Ya"

Gruppenfuher Rutherford, do you have a brownshirt?

"Why do you ask?"

"Vell, the strong arming of fellow countryman reminds me of tactics used by another group of individuals. Would you like to join the Ill. Nazi in a fun romp chasing men that look like Hazidic Diamond Merchants?

Click

No, I did not call nor would I want anyone to call. If you don't know the references that it could come across pretty bad. So don;t use this idea. Had to vent

[FluffyUnbound]

Romney's people were in the wrong, there were tons of state police there all they had to do is ask one to help out if there was a problem, rather than taking matters into their own hands and making a scene. However, and keep in mind I was actually there, the RP supporters weren't in the right either. Instead of picking the whole thing apart, let me just say what my wife who is not a Ron Paul supporter said about it as she was waiting for me on a bench directly across from where this happened.

She told me that after seeing how the Ron Paul supporters act, she has no intention of ever supporting Ron Paul. It took me a good long while to convince her that its a minority of supporters that become agressive and cross the line. She also told me that the guy who had his sign stood on was screaming and swearing directly infront of another supporter and his children. She said the man covered his children's ears and asked the angry supporter if that was necessary.

I stayed out of it, I'm not going to allow myself to be associated with that sort of behavior. Its good to support Ron Paul, but not good to push it to the point of giving him a negative appearance. My wife also said that the chairman who ripped the sign out of that guys hand was talking on the phone to Romney asking him where he was (Romney did show up later, gah he is so out of touch with most American's). She said the chairman told Romney that Ron Paul's campaign manager had some very good points, but his supporters are insane. I know you wont care about that, but it is good to know what your opponents are saying about you. Also, what some call insanity isnt really insanity its just passion.

So what do I think you should do. Well, I think you should be aware that both parties were in the wrong and I do actually hate that jerk that was standing on the sign. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it because I know it was a situation where most everyone was being respectful, yet about 3 or 4 on both sides turned it into a bad thing. You of course can complain if you want especially if you weren't there. Definitely feel free to complain about the guy that stood on the sign cause hes just plain repulsive in person.

You know what's missing from your post here? An actual description of the behavior your wife didn't like.

Unless you're going to specifically describe what you saw, you aren't adding any information, and your criticism and advice are utterly worthless.

[Dave Wood]

Make whatever assumptions you want about me but I had a "hunch" that that there is MORE to this story than what people are on the bandwagon about and as I suspected I was right:



"let me just say what my wife who is not a Ron Paul supporter said about it as she was waiting for me on a bench directly across from where this happened.

She told me that after seeing how the Ron Paul supporters act, she has no intention of ever supporting Ron Paul."

I quess I'm different than you because in my book "swearing" is just NO CLASS especially in a crowd with kids around.

It boils down to the fact that unfortunately this kind of behavior from "supposed" supporters of Paul will only detur him from winning the primary.....you get more "flies" with HONEY than VINEGAR.

It's ironic that folks have been whining about being labeled "kooks" and "peace train" and "hippie retreads" when this kind of NEGATIVE activism by some supposed "supporters" just galvanizes those characterizations.....as I said previously I am confident that Paul would be embarassed and upset about it himself (especially foul language).

Those Paul supporters that don't want to see his chances "hijacked" by disrespectful "punks" that have no respect for others need to take action.....(for all the conspiracy theorists out there maybe the typical "anachists" are latching onto Paul as a democratic strategy as they don't want to face Paul in the general election as the Rep. Nominee) These anarchists are real "classy" folks....they're probably more worried about drugs than anything else!!

As far as the swearing, you can thank the left and their hollywood Ghetto rap promoters. The schools are doing a pretty bad job as well in teaching societal norms. The swear I heard came after the assault and theft that I witnessed, the guy standing on the sign was simply lucky that he didnt end up in the emergency room, pretty stupid to do that in the middle of a very passionate crowd imho.
This is a REVOLUTION people, WAKE UP! Stop with this political correctness B.S., it wont work. We have to do whatever it takes and if we alienate some along the way then that is just too bad!! The mission is too important. With all respect to your wife, she doesnt get it. Maybe a little uninformed or closed minded, either way she is the enemy of our movement and she would never be on our side anyway. Just so you know I am a 40 year old educated business owner, husband, father.

[fj45lvr]

This is a REVOLUTION people, WAKE UP! Stop with this political correctness B.S., it wont work. We have to do whatever it takes and if we alienate some along the way then that is just too bad!! The mission is too important. With all respect to your wife, she doesnt get it. Maybe a little uninformed or closed minded, either way she is the enemy of our movement and she would never be on our side anyway.


Dave:

I have a problem with your characterization.


"We have to do whatever it takes"


What's your point here? This was a "poll" so it took "voting".... the fact that supporters like myself wear shirts, buttons, wave signs is a means to "advertise" or "product labeling" if you will......it does NOTHING to explain the benefits of the "product" in our case the "ideas" of Paul....this requires more than mere signs and packaging but either an explaination from a "teacher" that shares it or people seeking out that information on their own where they will decide for themselves.....I am hoping that Paul supporters aren't shallow enough to believe that others should merely vote for Paul because of the wild enthusiasm they demonstrate....but rather because of the IDEAS of Paul in relation to the rule of law. What if currently their were another candidate that had even larger crowds of supporters that were enthusiastic but the ideas were for socialism (bigger government and regulations)???? think about it.



if we alienate some along the way then that is just too bad!!



If we alienate people because they reject the ideas then I agree.....If they are alienated on the other hand because of something else and NEVER hear the ideas because of this something else then WE ARE THE LOSERS and we have done MORE harm than good.


The mission is too important


the mission is to garner the Republican nomination so that Paul can be elected president (short term mission)....this will be accomplished if Americans are educated to his ideas not because they witness an awesome display of "activism". That is what Paul is doing is "educating" people on the "rule of law" based on common sense.


With all respect to your wife, she doesnt get it. Maybe a little uninformed or closed minded, either way she is the enemy of our movement and she would never be on our side anyway.


that is just plain ignorant.

[FluffyUnbound]

I'd still like to know exactly what the Paul supporters did that you think they should not have done.

I need it explained to me using nouns and verbs. I can't make much use of an adjectival description like "They were obnoxious."

I realize I'm being a bit of a jerk about this, but I can't help suspecting that when described with nouns and verbs, it will be something like, "The Romney chairman was trying to speak to the TV crew, and the Paul supporters were chanting so loud he couldn't conduct his interview," or "The news crew was filming the Romney chairman, and Ron Paul supporters were waving signs in the background," and if it's either of these things, tough nuggets.

[MozoVote]

This stuff is such small beer compared to the 1968 and 1972 conventions and the passions people had there.

Oooo! He yelled at me! Heyyyy! He took my sign!

But it is a good thing that no "crowd mentality" took place. We don't need fistfights and mace on the local news. :rolleyes:

[fj45lvr]

but I can't help suspecting that when described with nouns and verbs, it will be something like, "The Romney chairman was trying to speak to the TV crew, and the Paul supporters were chanting so loud he couldn't conduct his interview," or "The news crew was filming the Romney chairman, and Ron Paul supporters were waving signs in the background," and if it's either of these things, tough nuggets.

I guess Americans have been just to darn brain washed by ESPN "gameday" with a mass of wild "fans" in the background making a spectacle of themselves....

politics is about IDEAS.

I agree that having signs in the "background" would be fine .....however, it would be totally RUDE and immature for these "kids" to shout over the conversation or interview (totally BUSH LEAGUE)

Think of the golden rule people....would you be happy if Paul was drowned out by the some other supporters??? Thats the bitchin and moanin I hear all the time about the MSM (on another level) whereas these "corporations" are DROWNING out the message......we don't like it because it is BS just like those guys wouldn't like it happening there in Illinois because it is BS. let LIBERTY shine and it is in words! and thoughts not DEMONSTRATIONS. (if you disagree with that consider if you will all the massive demonstrations that Saddam Hussein used to have in Iraq)

[constituent]

fj45...

really though, what does being an archist have to do with anything? that sort of behavior says nothing about the person's politics. on a site like this, it is probably best you refrain from making such broad generalizations. the "anarchists" that one tends to see around amongst the protest kids are likely planted there, they instigate stuff you know... but that has nothing to do with anarchy is in fact quite the opposite....

so leave that garbage at the door.

[Wyurm]

You know what's missing from your post here? An actual description of the behavior your wife didn't like.

Unless you're going to specifically describe what you saw, you aren't adding any information, and your criticism and advice are utterly worthless.

She didn't like the Ron Paul supporter screaming "Fascist!! F---!!! F---!!!" directly infront of some guy's kids. She didnt like them yelling at the reporter because he asked them to move out of his shot.

I dont get you people. I was there I was actually there in person and saw what happened with my eyes, I am telling you that both sides were in the wrong. Unless you were there, how can you say my argument is worthless?

I'm not going to argue with you guys. If you think its ok to distance yourselves from voters just because you feel you're right so you're all going to force your rightness on those who say your wrong, go for it.

I'm done with this discussion because its a waste of time to try reasoning on this matter. I know what I saw, but I'm sure all of you know better.

[fj45lvr]

I guess I misunderstand your take on "anarchist"...."anarchy" is defined as the 'complete absence of government' OR 'political disorder and violence'

We have anarchist "rallies" out here on the left coast where they trash cars, businesses as the crowd wanders down the streets and the people are stereotypically your basic sid viscious/punk wannabes, tats, piercings, dreads, etc.

Dr. Paul is the furthest away from "anarchy" as the most Conservative member of Congress trying desperately to get others to actually follow the "rule of law" as they swear they will uphold the Constitution (the supreme law of the land and protection from tyranny).

I guess from my perspective the "anarchists" (who show little to NO respect for anyone or thing) are more closely aligned with the dems...but I guess I'm biased there.

As someone else pointed out this kind of display could actually be an orchestrated "charade" to be used as a "politcal" tool....believe me people will do crap like that to maintain the power.

[RP08]

If I were not a Ron Paul supporter and wasn't completely dedicated to any one candidate yet...

* and I saw passionate people displaying and announcing their support for Ron Paul, I'd be intrigued to find out more.

* and a Ron Paul supporter extended a friendly handshake, I'd want to learn more.

* and a protestor / self-appointed revolutionary super-activist for Ron Paul was rudely yelling at or near me or especially my family, I'd likely be compelled to either: kick some ass, quickly get as far away from that shit as possible, or other. But one thing I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't be compelled to do is go out to seek more information on Ron Paul or want to be associated with that uncomfortable atmosphere.

It's not a "politically correct" thing to have manners and respect for others. And, it might just impress more people to become part of our important cause instead of being pushed away from it.

I have a great appreciation for passion and enthusiasm which is some of the stuff I enjoy so much about Ron Paul's grass-roots effort. I have, however, no tolerance for someone forcing themselves upon me or pre-emptively striking and acting like an ass to me.

This rEVOLution is a movement for something good and important, not one against non-(yet) Ron Paul supporters.

[Revolution9]

She didn't like the Ron Paul supporter screaming "Fascist!! F---!!! F---!!!" directly infront of some guy's kids. She didnt like them yelling at the reporter because he asked them to move out of his shot.

I dont get you people. I was there I was actually there in person and saw what happened with my eyes, I am telling you that both sides were in the wrong. Unless you were there, how can you say my argument is worthless?

I just watched the video. That big thug with the nose attached to his lip was a total jackass. I would have taken the sign back from him and jacked him if he touched me. He was already guilty of assault. You do not touch peoples private property. I would not take this crap lying down. I am a MAN goddamnit, not some Fabian socialized sissy ..

As for your wife.. Let her know..the guy wasn't just a fascist thug..he was a ~f*%#ing~ fascst thug. He is pissed that his gravy train of ill gotten gains will be shut down and he will have to find a real job. He is pure strongarm.. His number has been gotten now though..mwuhahaha!

Randy

[Sean]

She didn't like the Ron Paul supporter screaming "Fascist!! F---!!! F---!!!" directly infront of some guy's kids. She didnt like them yelling at the reporter because he asked them to move out of his shot.

I dont get you people. I was there I was actually there in person and saw what happened with my eyes, I am telling you that both sides were in the wrong. Unless you were there, how can you say my argument is worthless?

I wouldn't condone that sort of behavior, but this post is about Romney's campaign chairmen. You would have to agree there is a big difference between a some random supporters and someone in charge of the campaign. I have recruited eleven people to vote for Ron Paul so far and haven't yelled a bit.

[fj45lvr]

As for your wife.. Let her know..the guy wasn't just a fascist thug..he was a ~f*%#ing~ fascst thug. He is pissed that his gravy train of ill gotten gains will be shut down and he will have to find a real job. He is pure strongarm.. His number has been gotten now though..mwuhahaha!

Or MAYBE he was making a statement against some disrespectful supposed Paul "supporters" that were doing something that got him pissed and rightfully so......this video doesn't let you know........so don't try to "spin" this thing.

[mkrfctr]

So rather than show the fact that another candidate has wild support at the event, they should all stand quietly by, and at the end of the TV interview, they should what, send golf claps all the way around?

/wouldn't be so bad, if after a Mitt sentence someone yelled "get in the hole!"
//you know Ron Paul will get scant coverage, but it's hard to miss when Ron Paul is in every shot, including during interviews with other candidates.
///they are gonna have to start doing interviews in a sound proof booth in front of a green screen to insert a shot of each candidates supporters
////no matter what the guy was being obviously immature about the deal, standing on one guys sign, as the dude said, like there weren't a ton more about
/////not everyone thinks swear words are the evil incarnate of the devil ... or he might not have realized children were a few feet away, etc etc
//////You'll get over it.

Edit: read descrip of what happened in more detail. Sounds like they were doing a bit of rude heckling rather than some Ron Paul chants and standing and waving signs in the background, and they could have been nicer in saying 'no' in response to the reporters request to move out of the shot. Would be nicer if the hecklers were not directly associated with Ron Paul, but still the one guy is a member of Mitt's staff, not some random person. And it's not the job of anyone to make easier the job of the MSM who seek to shield the truth, ever. Stand in the shot, chant Ron Paul. Just don't be an ass about it.

[LibertyEagle]

She didn't like the Ron Paul supporter screaming "Fascist!! F---!!! F---!!!" directly infront of some guy's kids. She didnt like them yelling at the reporter because he asked them to move out of his shot.

I dont get you people. I was there I was actually there in person and saw what happened with my eyes, I am telling you that both sides were in the wrong. Unless you were there, how can you say my argument is worthless?

I'm not going to argue with you guys. If you think its ok to distance yourselves from voters just because you feel you're right so you're all going to force your rightness on those who say your wrong, go for it.

I'm done with this discussion because its a waste of time to try reasoning on this matter. I know what I saw, but I'm sure all of you know better.


This is disgusting behavior. When are some of us going to learn that this is not one big peace demonstration!! If you think any Republican who saw this kind of disgraceful behavior by a Ron Paul supporter, would ever come near Dr. Paul, much less vote for him, you have another thing coming! WAKE UP! What we do, reflects on Dr. Paul. Whoever did this should stay home next time if this is the best he can do. He just lost us votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

DAMN IT!

[fj45lvr]

So rather than show the fact that another candidate has wild support at the event, they should all stand quietly by, and at the end of the TV interview, they should what, send golf claps all the way around?

/wouldn't be so bad, if after a Mitt sentence someone yelled "get in the hole!"


standing by quitely with their ron paul signs would have alot more impact positively than being RUDE a-holes that would be willing to chant "get in the hole!" after every sentence Mitt speaks.

I guess this only really shows that Paul has alot of younger supporters that haven't "matured" yet so they're willing to alienate the people that they NEED to win the election: republicans.

[jonahtrainer]

This is disgusting behavior. When are some of us going to learn that this is not one big peace demonstration!! If you think any Republican who saw this kind of disgraceful behavior by a Ron Paul supporter, would ever come near Dr. Paul, much less vote for him, you have another thing coming! WAKE UP! What we do, reflects on Dr. Paul. Whoever did this should stay home next time if this is the best he can do. He just lost us votes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :mad:

DAMN IT!

I do not think we should lay the charge at the feet of a legitimate Ron Paul supporter. For all we know the person acting in a disgraceful way was paid by Romney or Goooliani. What we do know is the Romney supporter held an official position within the Romney campaign.

[Omnis]

If I were not a Ron Paul supporter and wasn't completely dedicated to any one candidate yet...

* and I saw passionate people displaying and announcing their support for Ron Paul, I'd be intrigued to find out more.

* and a Ron Paul supporter extended a friendly handshake, I'd want to learn more.

* and a protestor / self-appointed revolutionary super-activist for Ron Paul was rudely yelling at or near me or especially my family, I'd likely be compelled to either: kick some ass, quickly get as far away from that shit as possible, or other. But one thing I'm absolutely sure I wouldn't be compelled to do is go out to seek more information on Ron Paul or want to be associated with that uncomfortable atmosphere.

It's not a "politically correct" thing to have manners and respect for others. And, it might just impress more people to become part of our important cause instead of being pushed away from it.

I have a great appreciation for passion and enthusiasm which is some of the stuff I enjoy so much about Ron Paul's grass-roots effort. I have, however, no tolerance for someone forcing themselves upon me or pre-emptively striking and acting like an ass to me.

This rEVOLution is a movement for something good and important, not one against non-(yet) Ron Paul supporters.

Well put. You're quite right. People don't flock to chaos, so it should be our priority not to cause any.

[mkrfctr]

standing by quitely with their ron paul signs would have alot more impact positively than being RUDE a-holes that would be willing to chant "get in the hole!" after every sentence Mitt speaks.

I guess this only really shows that Paul has alot of younger supporters that haven't "matured" yet so they're willing to alienate the people that they NEED to win the election: republicans.

The "get in the hole!" part was obviously sarcasm... since it's stupid when golf people do it, and it's obviously unrelated to anything in politics and makes no sense, other than in reference to my comment on standing around silently and then giving a golf clap. Sorry you missed that.

And if chanting the name of the candidate you support for president is alienating, then I don't want to be right. However chanting "Fascist!" as described is a bit different, and is likely to alienate as it's negative, and really just meant to ruin the interview, as opposed to showing support for another candidate in the background visual and audio..

/way to insult young people, Mr. doesn't want to alienate... *rolls eyes*

[BLS]

Some people here have made some compelling arguments for why this was out of line on the RP supporters part.

I will admit right here and now that I was likely wrong in my assertation.
I didn't read the post about what he had said to this man around children.
I don't know how the whole thing went down.

I am infuriated at the fact they took his sign away and destroyed it.
But if he was out of line, those here who suggested this is a poor way to demonstrate are probably correct.


FJ45lvr, I owe you an apology.
I guess my problem with what happened is this. We are expected to play THEIR game, but they don't play by the same rules. The Establishment hides Dr. Paul as much as they can, they bash him, they ignore him, they fight him (and his supporters).

There are 2 instances I can give that I failed to recognize earlier today when I posted.

1. Blacks in Amercia were never taken seriously about their fight for equal rights until a man came along and got hundreds of thousands of people to march into Washington PEACEFULLY. For years before that, it was fighting, and street riots, and it accomplished nothing.

2. We need to fight in a different method. We can't let anything get physical. Ever. Get it on video, post it on youtube, or send it to your local news, but NEVER be part of the problem. We need to show some class.


I was wrong...and as much as I know myslef, I would want to punch that guy out for taking my property, I HOPE that if in the same position, I would be able to control myself.

My last point...
For the guy who said his wife said she wouldn't vote for Dr. Paul because of one group of supporters...with all due respect sir, that's very close minded.

Just because the Cowboys cheerleaders are too scantily clad, or ugly, or whatever, doesn't mean I won't watch the Cowboys game.....

That's like saying I'll never vote for a Republican again because of GWB.
One man does not epitomize a party or way of thinking.

[Revolution9]

Or MAYBE he was making a statement against some disrespectful supposed Paul "supporters" that were doing something that got him pissed and rightfully so......this video doesn't let you know........so don't try to "spin" this thing.

The spin here is against the RP supporter whom was assaulted by the Romney strongarmer somewhat. The other guy was the obvious jerk. He had someone try toget the tread on sign back and stomped it furth standing square on the center with a "come on mofo..try to take this from me" attitude. I woulda took it from him.. Flat out., Big ass zinjanthropian jaw jutted troglodyte ain't gonna treaqd on the Good Doctors name while I am there...OK..so I mixed up evolutionary metaphors..but this guy is a throwback to strongarm 40's' politics. 40's politics.. Mett the grownup of the new millenium. You will be outed. Your dirt will be washed clean. You will not use aggressive tactics ti shut up what you do not want to upset your world view. Your political cash gravy train days are numbered. Scream and throw tantrums all you want but keep your effing hands off our people and our signs. There may be a bunch of yuppified pussies and Fabian socialized sissies yelling No Stop!! Yer hurting the cause.. Well..go back to your cookie cutter house or condo and let the real men handle the fight against the Brits. I am sick and bloody tired of politics as usual. The thug was a tyrant..he should be stood up to.

Randg

[Wyurm]

The spin here is against the RP supporter whom was assaulted by the Romney strongarmer somewhat. The other guy was the obvious jerk. He had someone try toget the tread on sign back and stomped it furth standing square on the center with a "come on mofo..try to take this from me" attitude. I woulda took it from him.. Flat out., Big ass zinjanthropian jaw jutted troglodyte ain't gonna treaqd on the Good Doctors name while I am there...OK..so I mixed up evolutionary metaphors..but this guy is a throwback to strongarm 40's' politics. 40's politics.. Mett the grownup of the new millenium. You will be outed. Your dirt will be washed clean. You will not use aggressive tactics ti shut up what you do not want to upset your world view. Your political cash gravy train days are numbered. Scream and throw tantrums all you want but keep your effing hands off our people and our signs. There may be a bunch of yuppified pussies and Fabian socialized sissies yelling No Stop!! Yer hurting the cause.. Well..go back to your cookie cutter house or condo and let the real men handle the fight against the Brits. I am sick and bloody tired of politics as usual. The thug was a tyrant..he should be stood up to.

Randg

You saw a video that does not show you how it all started. So, have at it Randy, go ahead and make an ass of yourself. You really think that we need to be disrespectful assholes in order to win this? If so, the perhaps you're right and we should start screaming at reporters and punching the other candidates in the face. Who are they to DARE tell us how to act. How dare they not like us harrassing them during interviews!!!! We need to kick some butt and just start running up to everyone and screaming that they better vote for Ron Paul!!!!! Get right in their faces, and if they don't like it, they have to be in the wrong and anyone that disagrees is a Fabian socialized sissy. Please Randy, be our leader since you have such great wisdom.

[FluffyUnbound]

She didn't like the Ron Paul supporter screaming "Fascist!! F---!!! F---!!!" directly infront of some guy's kids. She didnt like them yelling at the reporter because he asked them to move out of his shot.

I dont get you people. I was there I was actually there in person and saw what happened with my eyes, I am telling you that both sides were in the wrong. Unless you were there, how can you say my argument is worthless?

I'm not going to argue with you guys. If you think its ok to distance yourselves from voters just because you feel you're right so you're all going to force your rightness on those who say your wrong, go for it.

I'm done with this discussion because its a waste of time to try reasoning on this matter. I know what I saw, but I'm sure all of you know better.

It's a good thing you're done with the discussion, because your contribution is worthless.

The reporter didn't want Paul supporters in his shot. Tough shit. The media narrative for this campaign is that Paul's supporters don't exist. If that's the story they want to tell, there's no reason for Paul supporters to COOPERATE in pushing that bullshit meme.

And here's a clue for you: If someone steals my sign, throws it on the ground and steps on it, and I say, "Fuck you, you fascist," I am right and they are wrong. If someone rips a sign out of my hand, they deserve to be cursed at and they deserve to be called a fascist. Way to side with the guy who starts handing out abuse and not the guy who rightly and appropriately calls him on it.

And as far as all your honey and vinegar stuff goes, the guy who took the sign is a state senator who works in Romney's organization. We're not exactly talking about an undecided voter here. You just want to cooperate in your own marginalization because you have this fantasy that a guy like that will change his mind and be on your side. It's not going to happen.

[axiomata]

You saw a video that does not show you how it all started. So, have at it Randy, go ahead and make an ass of yourself. You really think that we need to be disrespectful assholes in order to win this? If so, the perhaps you're right and we should start screaming at reporters and punching the other candidates in the face. Who are they to DARE tell us how to act. How dare they not like us harrassing them during interviews!!!! We need to kick some butt and just start running up to everyone and screaming that they better vote for Ron Paul!!!!! Get right in their faces, and if they don't like it, they have to be in the wrong and anyone that disagrees is a Fabian socialized sissy. Please Randy, be our leader since you have such great wisdom.
I, for one, appreciate your account. There's nothing wrong with being civilized, and it appears that some Paul supporters need to try a little of it. It doesn't excuse what Rutherford and his "muscle" did, but our goal is not to provoke people who disagree, it's to convince them. Rude behavior is not a good way to do that.

[max]

Tell your wife that Ron Paul supporters arent running for president. Ron Paul is!

How absurd to hold it against RP if some of his supporters are overzealous..

Woodrow Wilson sure screwed us good...The Federal Resrve...The Income tax...WW1......and allowing women to vote...

[axiomata]

Tell your wife that Ron Paul supporters arent running for president. Ron Paul is!

How absurd to hold it against RP if some of his supporters are overzealous..

Woodrow Wilson sure screwed us good...The Federal Resrve...The Income tax...WW1......and allowing women to vote...
Way to offend have the potential voting population

[fj45lvr]

You just want to cooperate in your own marginalization because you have this fantasy that a guy like that will change his mind and be on your side. It's not going to happen.


It just doesn't sink in I guess.....its not about the Senator....its about the "supposed" Ron Paul "supporters" being rude a-holes and provoking what happened by showing up to be "protestors" rather than "supporters" seemingly attempting to "advertise" the man they think has the best "ideas" or whatever their reasoning or issue is....

How people percieve ACTIONS speaks louder than WORDS unfortunately....

the "supporters" are excited and fired up...GOOD, GREAT....now just clue them in on being respectful and AMBASSADORS instead of disrespectful COMBATANTS.

[specsaregood]

All I am going to say is this:
The Romney campaign has already demonstrated that they can not be trusted by hiring staff that has impersonated police.

That state senator had no reason to take the sign and hand it to a goon to stand upon and was obviously TRYING to provoke a fight. Very well could have been an attempted setup.

The Ron Paul supporter should have located an officer and had a complaint filed on the spot against the state senator. Simple as that. And had his property retrieved. And filmed it in case the officer showed "favorites"

[DjLoTi]

^^^ I agree

[quickmike]

man, I cant believe this thread is still going.................... oops ........... I just bumped it up a little further............ damnit!!!!:D

[jj111]

Romney's people were in the wrong, there were tons of state police there all they had to do is ask one to help out if there was a problem, rather than taking matters into their own hands and making a scene. However, and keep in mind I was actually there, the RP supporters weren't in the right either. Instead of picking the whole thing apart, let me just say what my wife who is not a Ron Paul supporter said about it as she was waiting for me on a bench directly across from where this happened.

She told me that after seeing how the Ron Paul supporters act, she has no intention of ever supporting Ron Paul. It took me a good long while to convince her that its a minority of supporters that become agressive and cross the line. She also told me that the guy who had his sign stood on was screaming and swearing directly infront of another supporter and his children. She said the man covered his children's ears and asked the angry supporter if that was necessary.

I stayed out of it, I'm not going to allow myself to be associated with that sort of behavior. Its good to support Ron Paul, but not good to push it to the point of giving him a negative appearance. My wife also said that the chairman who ripped the sign out of that guys hand was talking on the phone to Romney asking him where he was (Romney did show up later, gah he is so out of touch with most American's). She said the chairman told Romney that Ron Paul's campaign manager had some very good points, but his supporters are insane. I know you wont care about that, but it is good to know what your opponents are saying about you. Also, what some call insanity isnt really insanity its just passion.

So what do I think you should do. Well, I think you should be aware that both parties were in the wrong and I do actually hate that jerk that was standing on the sign. I'm not going to make a big deal out of it because I know it was a situation where most everyone was being respectful, yet about 3 or 4 on both sides turned it into a bad thing. You of course can complain if you want especially if you weren't there. Definitely feel free to complain about the guy that stood on the sign cause hes just plain repulsive in person.

You never know if people who act out in a situation like this are actually nuts (there are some in this world), or are agents provocateur secretly working for the other side. In all cases. step back and videotape. Disassociate and retreat from the occasional crazies, whether they are really crazy or agents provocateur you may never be able to find out.

[LibertyEagle]

Woodrow Wilson sure screwed us good...The Federal Resrve...The Income tax...WW1......and allowing women to vote...

Be careful, Max. Think about the gender of the people who have sold out our country. I don't think it's women.

[Bob Cochran]

I wouldnt have touched him because it would make RP supporters look bad, but I DEFINITELY would have gotten up about 2 inches nose to nose in his face and mocked him in my best hillbilly voice saying something like "yeah, im a mitt romney s'porter cuz he has gud hair and im a sheep who lykes his imige, hell, we need a republic'n who acts like a dem'crat............yuk yuk yuk" and just wait for him to take a shot at me.
I would have kicked his ass, stuck the sign up it, and said I was a Fred Thompson supporter and a huge HUGE Sean Hannity fan.

But that's just me.

[LibertyEagle]

And here's a clue for you: If someone steals my sign, throws it on the ground and steps on it, and I say, "Fuck you, you fascist," I am right and they are wrong. If someone rips a sign out of my hand, they deserve to be cursed at and they deserve to be called a fascist. Way to side with the guy who starts handing out abuse and not the guy who rightly and appropriately calls him on it.

No. It's about acting like an adult and not acting like some kind of hooligan. Children were there. Cursing in front of children is not acceptable. I don't care WHAT was done.

This person lost us votes. I hope it was worth it.

[LibertyEagle]

I would have kicked his ass, stuck the sign up it, and said I was a Fred Thompson supporter and a huge HUGE Sean Hannity fan.

But that's just me.

Now THAT probably would have worked. :D

[quickmike]

I would have kicked his ass, stuck the sign up it, and said I was a Fred Thompson supporter and a huge HUGE Sean Hannity fan.

But that's just me.

Hey, thats an awesome idea!!!!! Someone should hire you for ideas like that.

[Keith]

What a great line, "Don't let this guy step on your Ron Paul sign."

I kept expecting Charlton Heston to come on and say, "When you pry it out of my cold dead hands!"

[quickmike]

No. It's about acting like an adult and not acting like some kind of hooligan. Children were there. Cursing in front of children is not acceptable. I don't care WHAT was done.

This person lost us votes. I hope it was worth it.


Nah, I dont think it really made a difference either way. Both sides did wrong so it evens out. I dont think the type of person that has the sense enough to value the words of Ron Pauls message would let an incident from a lone supporter effect their opinion of Ron Paul. Every candidate has a supporter that runs his mouth at some point, this was just ours I guess. It will all be forgotten in a week im sure.


I still say the kicking his ass and saying "im a fred thompson supporter" was the best idea on here yet. Just make sure you drop your Ron Paul sign before the cameras roll :D

[Wyurm]

Nah, I dont think it really made a difference either way. Both sides did wrong so it evens out. I dont think the type of person that has the sense enough to value the words of Ron Pauls message would let an incident from a lone supporter effect their opinion of Ron Paul. Every candidate has a supporter that runs his mouth at some point, this was just ours I guess. It will all be forgotten in a week im sure.


I still say the kicking his ass and saying "im a fred thompson supporter" was the best idea on here yet. Just make sure you drop your Ron Paul sign before the cameras roll :D

Maybe we should organize a security detail and arm them all with "Better Fred than DEAD!!!" signs. Then if anything does happen they can take care of it and it wont be on us :P

[quickmike]

Maybe we should organize a security detail and arm them all with "Better Fred than DEAD!!!" signs. Then if anything does happen they can take care of it and it wont be on us :P

just tell us where to sign up:D

[BLS]

Way to offend have the potential voting population

I think you missed his point entirely.

[axiomata]

I think you missed his point entirely.
I understood him perfectly well. He said Paul supporters aren't running for president, Paul is. ... (which is undoubtedly true)

He then tacked on his opinion that it was a mistake to allow women to vote. A statement that will and should offend 99% of the population. Now when said 99% look at his first point, (which was true remember,) they won't be thinking about it, since they will be too offended by the offensive part to care to think about the first/true part..

Applying this to Paul's campaign, if Paul's supporters are all obnoxious boars or flamboyant sexists it doesn't matter what Paul's message is if the medium through which it is broadcast is not clear and palatable.

[kylebrotherton]

A Ron Paul supporter swearing and yelling in front of children? I believe it. There are a few anarchists who support Paul, and they are very loud.

I guess it's a testament to his limited gov credentials. If there was a candidate who favored less government than Ron Paul, the anarchists would support that person.

It's true that these jerks cost us votes. But they don't give a f___, and they'll tell you so.

With supporters like this, who needs opponents?

[McDermit]

I wonder how people would react if Romney supporters were running around interrupting speeches and swearing in front of kids.

[fj45lvr]

I wonder how people would react if Romney supporters were running around interrupting speeches and swearing in front of kids.

No doubt this is a HUGE problem.....lose a couple hundred punk "supporters" and potentially gain tens of thousands........

unfortunately, people tend to judge the book by it's cover.....Paul deserves a better "cover" than these quote unquote ANARCHIST types (body piercing, foul mouthed, hemp lovin, primary losin, "supporters" that they are).

no doubt the campaign has some issues to sort out as things snowball out of their control .......it is TRAGIC too, when Paul himself would scold people for saying "red light district" in front of any ladies....wish that was more the impression that folks had of Paul instead of the "Insane clown posse" of a-holes.

[theZRC]

A Ron Paul supporter acting a bit immature is unfortunately, not surprising. The Ron Paul Revolution tends to draw the free spirited, as well as the EXTREMELY free spirited. Yes, it reflects poorly on the campaign when a supporter curses as this man did. However, his unthoughtful act isn't even comparable to that of Sen. Dan Rutherford (R-Chenoa). The man is a state senator for cryin' out loud. The video didn't capture the entire event, but honestly, can you think of any possible situation where the best solution would be to steal a sign and stand on it. THIS S!@T IS ABSOLUTELY CHILDISH!!! In reaction to this i would encourage all Ron Paul supporters to do two things:

1- Act professional. -Manners, manners, manners! Don't try to fight city hall if we're trying to BE city hall. Whether you like it or not everything you do while wearing a RP shirt, sportin' a RP sticker, or carrying an RP sign, is a contributing factor to how most people see the good doctor and his campaign.

and 2-Point out the enemy's asinine tactics. If anyone you talk to has decided that Ron Paul supporters are unruly, or out of line, just point out how ridiculous our opposition is (i.e. Dan Rutherford, Mark Levine). Our grassroots movement is unconventional to say the least, and the power brokers do not know how to deal with it. If we simply out-class these jerks we will have the upper hand, and all of their punk ass whinny B#$%H tactics will just backfire.

Peace be with you.
Zach R Carter

[fj45lvr]

I understood him perfectly well. He said Paul supporters aren't running for president, Paul is. ... (which is undoubtedly true)

He then tacked on his opinion that it was a mistake to allow women to vote. A statement that will and should offend 99% of the population. Now when said 99% look at his first point, (which was true remember,) they won't be thinking about it, since they will be too offended by the offensive part to care to think about the first/true part..

Applying this to Paul's campaign, if Paul's supporters are all obnoxious boars or flamboyant sexists it doesn't matter what Paul's message is if the medium through which it is broadcast is not clear and palatable.

I interpret his comments as meaning something else entirely in that Paul is no more to blame for his supporters than Woodrow Wilson is to blame for these things that happened under his presidency.....it would make sense that way (if in fact wilson was not a major cog in those things happening) the inference being "sarcastic" concerning these different things that happened....alas, the only way to know for sure is for him to explain it.

I will say too that I believe that our Congress and Country would be much different if the founders views towards eligible voters was still the "law of the land" whereby you had to be a male landowner to vote (no matter how repugnant that idea is to some people we IMHO would be a totally different country today with alot more respect for individual rights, private property, and NOT a huge Federal bearuacracy with HUGE taxes and the welfare state...that for sure is the honest to God truth)

[Nefertiti]

Those Paul supporters that don't want to see his chances "hijacked" by disrespectful "punks" that have no respect for others need to take action.....(for all the conspiracy theorists out there maybe the typical "anachists" are latching onto Paul as a democratic strategy as they don't want to face Paul in the general election as the Rep. Nominee) These anarchists are real "classy" folks....they're probably more worried about drugs than anything else!!

It seems to me that any anarchist who supports Ron Paul or any other politician is a hypocrite. Their beliefs are in opposition to any form of government at all. The way to deal with these types is perhaps to point out to them the ways in which Ron Paul doesn't support their philosophies. Then they might sour on him a bit. It might seem rude to try and exclude some "supporters" but as long as it is done on the basis of facts about his policies I only see it helping us to get him elected.

[Nefertiti]

I too wish people would calm down when supporting RP. Wishful thinking i suppose.

I was a bit disturbed by the refrain "louder"-better to replace it with something that would emphasize Ron Paul's policies.

[Nefertiti]

The Ron Paul supporter should have located an officer and had a complaint filed on the spot against the state senator. Simple as that. And had his property retrieved. And filmed it in case the officer showed "favorites"

Absolutely. That is exactly what I would have done. It's theft or even assault isn't it? The Ron Paul supporters sure were peaceful but they certainly didn't stand up for their legal rights.

[Nefertiti]

What a great line, "Don't let this guy step on your Ron Paul sign."

I kept expecting Charlton Heston to come on and say, "When you pry it out of my cold dead hands!"


http://www.spsstore.com/Gadsden%20flag.jpg

Here's a video idea for someone-use the image of his foot on the sign and then segue into the above.

[Nefertiti]

Further on the above-this would make a GREAT TV ad in markets where Romney is strong or SC or VT where apparently the flag is popular. You start off with some ominous music in the background, and a deep male voiceover-

You put in the disclaimer that this was not paid for by the official campaign in the beginning.

"At the Illinois State Fair straw poll, Mitt Romney's Illinois campaign chairman, Dan Rutherford, ripped a sign from the hands of a supporter of presidential candidate Ron Paul and handed it to this goon to trample on."

[Here you show him looking defiant and panning to the sign under his foot]

[Then segueway to the image of the flag and have the following line as the voiceover]

"What exactly is it about US Rep. Ron Paul that Mitt Romney doesn't want you to know?"

Then you have a list of the standard bullet points with voiceovers about Ron Paul and end with an image saying "Ron Paul for President 2008" and his Web site

[Slugg]

Further on the above-this would make a GREAT TV ad in markets where Romney is strong. You start off with some ominous music in the background, and a deep male voiceover-

You put in the disclaimer that this was not paid for by the official campaign in the beginning.

"At the Illinois State Fair straw poll, Mitt Romney's Illinois campaign chairman, Dan Rutherford, ripped a sign from the hands of a supporter of presidential candidate Ron Paul and handed it to this goon to trample on."

[Here you show him looking defiant and panning to the sign under his foot]

[Then segueway to the image of the flag and have the following line as the voiceover]

"What exactly is it about US Rep. Ron Paul that Mitt Romney doesn't want you to know?"

Then you have a list of the standard bullet points with voiceovers about Ron Paul and end with an image saying "Ron Paul for President 2008" and his Web site

We could do the same thing with clips from FOX,CNN, etc...where they obviously ignore RP...and instead of "WHat Mitt Romney doesn't want you to know." We can say, "What the establishment doesn't want you to know."

[Nefertiti]

Jennifer's talking points:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=134264&posted=1#post134264

might work with my idea above.

[lucius]

We could do the same thing with clips from FOX,CNN, etc...where they obviously ignore RP...and instead of "WHat Mitt Romney doesn't want you to know." We can say, "What the establishment doesn't want you to know."

This was the topic of an informal Dr. Paul BBQ I was at yesterday. These people are very new to Dr. Paul and are absolutely amazed at the MSM omissions and distortions about Dr. Paul, which later morphed to what else are they lying about? It really is a Revolution...

[max]

This may not go over too well with the ladies, but IN GENERAL, the concept of women's suffrage (voting rights) is incompatible with individual liberty and limited government..

A woman has an instinctive need to seek protection and security. In a natural primitive setting, a woman and her babies could only survive if a big strong caveman went out and killed wild animals and fought off rival tribes.

In a modern society, many women can now provide for themselves, but the desire for protection and security remains strong because it is instintive. This is why women are attracted to strong, self confident men and repulsed by weak men.

In the poitical arena, it is to be expected that women will GENERALLY choose "security" over the risks of liberty. It is no accident that in every nation where women were given the right to vote, the nanny state has grown larger and socialism has replaced free markets and limited government. The statists prey upon the emotional nature and "security needs" of women.

With 1/2 the voting population consisting of women, it will be very difficult to do things like getting rid of Homeland "Security", welfare, Deparetment of Education, PATRIOT act etc. Women are also a big constituency of the anti-gun rights crowd.

It is no accident that the same Wilsonian gang that gave us the Fed and the income tax...were also obsessed with women's suffrage. If you think these elite criminals supported women's suffrage because they were such "gentelemen" you are mistaken. They knew it was key to expanding government power!

Not much we can do about it now. This horse left the barn 100 years ago. But, in retrospect, it was a mistake - notwithstanding the very strong and wise women who do support Ron Paul.

[jasonhlasvegas]

But there are a ton of women in my MeetUp group. Two just joined us in the span of 12 hours.

[max]

If u read my post, i said IN GENERAL...

For example, In GENERAL, most 14 year olds shouldnt be voting...however, I know some 14 year olds who understand the issues very well. But we wouldnt be wise to alllow all 14 years olds to vote because of a few smarter ones...

when the media starts slamming ron paul for wanting to shut down dept of education and homeland security...the female vote will be very dificult..

[angelatc]

No. It's about acting like an adult and not acting like some kind of hooligan. Children were there. Cursing in front of children is not acceptable. I don't care WHAT was done.

This person lost us votes. I hope it was worth it.

You're right, it's not acceptable, but as a parent I can tell you it happens. It's called "public." It's really best just to move the kiddies along than try to insult another persons speaking habits, and I'm sure Miss Manners would agree.

It's nothing to get violent over.

[angelatc]

I think Max needs to be ignored here in this thread. BUt that's just me.

[max]

now u sound like a neo-con lib....ignore ideas rather than actually think about their merits

[torchbearer]

that looked like something i read over at fred thompson forum (http://www.fredthompsonforum.com/).

[allyinoh]

Dag, I'm a little late but that part at the end got my blood boiling a bit... What a douche bag!

I don't think I could have easily walked away as the guy did, it would be really hard for me! lol..

[FluffyUnbound]

A Ron Paul supporter swearing and yelling in front of children? I believe it. There are a few anarchists who support Paul, and they are very loud.

I guess it's a testament to his limited gov credentials. If there was a candidate who favored less government than Ron Paul, the anarchists would support that person.

It's true that these jerks cost us votes. But they don't give a f___, and they'll tell you so.

With supporters like this, who needs opponents?

This must be a regional thing, because I am anything but an anarchist. I'm the prototype for a clean-cut upper middle class professional. But I also grew up in New York, and if you rip a sign out of my hands I'm going to curse you out.

It really boggles my mind that many of you people are pretty much openly admitting you don't care who was right and who was wrong, because kids heard "cursing". I have a toddler and if someone violated my physical space by ripping MY sign out of MY hands, I'd curse the guy to high heaven up and down the fairgrounds and I'd be HAPPY for my kid to see it - he'd be learning the appropriate response.

If you're unhappy because kids heard a confrontation, be mad at the person who started the confrontation. Waving a sign at a political rally is not starting a confrontation. Grabbing someone else's sign is. Let me guess, if this guy had punched some Ron Paul supporter in the mouth and other supporters started cursing at him, some of you Ned Flanders types would be lamenting how those "anarchist" cursing Paulicans were driving voters away.

[specsaregood]

Waving a sign at a political rally is not starting a confrontation. Grabbing someone else's sign is. Let me guess, if this guy had punched some Ron Paul supporter in the mouth and other supporters started cursing at him, some of you Ned Flanders types would be lamenting how those "anarchist" cursing Paulicans were driving voters away.

Don't even dismiss for a minute that starting a fight was not a possible motive for his actions. I think the RP supporters should have located an officer of the law and gotten their sign back that way.

This story got picked up on another website:
http://www.familytaxpayers.net/article.asp?articleNumber=1433
"The Radar goes on record here to express its disappointment in Sen. Rutherford. We’re very disappointed in your behavior, Dan. Very disappointed. "

[Revolution9]

This must be a regional thing, because I am anything but an anarchist. I'm the prototype for a clean-cut upper middle class professional. But I also grew up in New York, and if you rip a sign out of my hands I'm going to curse you out.

It really boggles my mind that many of you people are pretty much openly admitting you don't care who was right and who was wrong, because kids heard "cursing". I have a toddler and if someone violated my physical space by ripping MY sign out of MY hands, I'd curse the guy to high heaven up and down the fairgrounds and I'd be HAPPY for my kid to see it - he'd be learning the appropriate response.

If you're unhappy because kids heard a confrontation, be mad at the person who started the confrontation. Waving a sign at a political rally is not starting a confrontation. Grabbing someone else's sign is. Let me guess, if this guy had punched some Ron Paul supporter in the mouth and other supporters started cursing at him, some of you Ned Flanders types would be lamenting how those "anarchist" cursing Paulicans were driving voters away.

Quoted for pure absolute effing agreement. I ain't ned flanders. Waving a sign at a political rally and getting loud is what it is all about. Get it! We beat that punks guy and he knew it. He was trying what worked in the past..strongarm.. Well I got a size ten and an uproarious rant for him and the cameras. Is calling him an overbeefed, testosterone blindered drooldonkey gonna upset the soccer moms with kids.?? My goodness!! someone got aggressive. They can't do that..The King owns the violence and noise! Trust me.. Kids do not get offended by cusswords.. Their momma does, and of course drags the kiddies front and center to enforce her stupid boundaries by pointing to "the children" who are hearing this. I don't buy it. I am a dad and have kids. And I will bet the mom bitching allows her kids to sit down in front of the mind swill they call prime time TV..and that's just dandy.

Randy

[Revolution9]

No doubt this is a HUGE problem.....lose a couple hundred punk "supporters" and potentially gain tens of thousands........

unfortunately, people tend to judge the book by it's cover.....Paul deserves a better "cover" than these quote unquote ANARCHIST types (body piercing, foul mouthed, hemp lovin, primary losin, "supporters" that they are).

no doubt the campaign has some issues to sort out as things snowball out of their control .......it is TRAGIC too, when Paul himself would scold people for saying "red light district" in front of any ladies....wish that was more the impression that folks had of Paul instead of the "Insane clown posse" of a-holes.

Kiss my royal pot smoking, long haired, wild dressed, jackboot hating, non-ned flanders acting ass. I already have gotten more folks on the bandwagin than you and I know that is a fact. Your type will turn off potential converts and you hard core red state ned flanders repugnicans do not have enough votes wthout us to make a fucking dent. Behave yourself and watch who you call names. You may have to stand toe and toe with us or look us in the eye one day. I know I ain't going away. We are taking over the party whether you ned flanders types like it or not. I am 50.. Most of the people I have brought to the party and platform are between 20 and 30..So..they are the FUTURE of the republican party and without them the republican party has no future due to ned flanders type clowns fronting it and thugs like the jerk strongarming doing the dirtywork. Gambit is over and washed up. We take no shit from no one. They behave and keep their mitts off us and all is fine.. Touch me or my crew and there will be hell to pay.

Don't Tread On Me!
Randy

[Revolution9]

No. It's about acting like an adult and not acting like some kind of hooligan.
.

Tell that to The Sons Of Liberty. If they followed the hidden meaning of your advice we would be singting "God Save The Queen".

Randy

[quickmike]

Quoted for pure absolute effing agreement. I ain't ned flanders. Waving a sign at a political rally and getting loud is what it is all about. Get it! We beat that punks guy and he knew it. He was trying what worked in the past..strongarm.. Well I got a size ten and an uproarious rant for him and the cameras. Is calling him an overbeefed, testosterone blindered drooldonkey gonna upset the soccer moms with kids.?? My goodness!! someone got aggressive. They can't do that..The King owns the violence and noise! Trust me.. Kids do not get offended by cusswords.. Their momma does, and of course drags the kiddies front and center to enforce her stupid boundaries by pointing to "the children" who are hearing this. I don't buy it. I am a dad and have kids. And I will bet the mom bitching allows her kids to sit down in front of the mind swill they call prime time TV..and that's just dandy.

Randy

Thats a big problem in todays society I think. So many people want to put their kids in a little plastic bubble where they cant be exposed to any of the realities of life. One of these realities is that at times, there will be confrontations between adults in public, and sometimes those confrontations get nasty. George Carlin said it best when he said people have a "child fetish" in this country. Helmets, scheduled platimes, and other nonsense. Like somehow, a child hearing a curse word is going to do them some kind of harm. After all, how can someone truly be harmed by certain letters arranged in a certain order to make a word? Im not saying walk around cussing at your kids and all that. Im just saying, if it happens to occur in public, and you are with your child, best thing you can do is cover their ears if you want and laugh it off. Theyre gonna hear stuff like that in their life at some point, and I dont know any adults that have been done any harm in their lives by hearing someone swear when they were children. Sure it can be looked at as disrespectful, but come on, its not really that big a deal compared your child watching the news seeing stories about people getting their limbs blown off in Iraq.

[LibertyEagle]

now u sound like a neo-con lib....ignore ideas rather than actually think about their merits

I did think about their merits, that is why I agree with angelatc, that you should be ignored in this thread.

[LibertyEagle]

Tell that to The Sons Of Liberty. If they followed the hidden meaning of your advice we would be singting "God Save The Queen".

Randy

Hardly. No one said to buckle under, Randy. We still don't know what the RP supporter was doing. Was he sticking the sign in someone's face? That sure would irritate me too and if he wouldn't remove it, I would probably grab the damn sign out of his hands. Did that happen here? Bottom line, we don't have enough information.

There is also something about the old saying to "pick your battles".

[LibertyEagle]

Kiss my royal pot smoking, long haired, wild dressed, jackboot hating, non-ned flanders acting ass. I already have gotten more folks on the bandwagin than you and I know that is a fact. Your type will turn off potential converts and you hard core red state ned flanders repugnicans do not have enough votes wthout us to make a fucking dent. Behave yourself and watch who you call names. You may have to stand toe and toe with us or look us in the eye one day. I know I ain't going away. We are taking over the party whether you ned flanders types like it or not. I am 50.. Most of the people I have brought to the party and platform are between 20 and 30..So..they are the FUTURE of the republican party and without them the republican party has no future due to ned flanders type clowns fronting it and thugs like the jerk strongarming doing the dirtywork. Gambit is over and washed up. We take no shit from no one. They behave and keep their mitts off us and all is fine.. Touch me or my crew and there will be hell to pay.

Don't Tread On Me!
Randy

EVERYONE is needed, Randy. But, is it really necessary to go out of our way to alienate every single existing Republican, in the process?

[axiomata]

EVERYONE is needed, Randy. But, is it really necessary to go out of our way to alienate every single existing Republican, in the process?
Depends if your goal is to take over the party or restore it. Randy's goal seems to be the former, which is a goal that Ron Paul doesn't share.

[Revolution9]

EVERYONE is needed, Randy. But, is it really necessary to go out of our way to alienate every single existing Republican, in the process?

Where you get that idea I do not know. Seems to me the hard core red state folks at the rally yesterday thought my antics were a hoot. And ya know.. If the thug had of taken a Huckabee sign and did that and I was there i would still do something about it. This ain't about stepping on an RP sign.. It is about stepping on people and I have a huge grudge against bullies i need working off when i see them in action.

As for the people around this board with the nasty names for folks who do not fit their paradigm. I got a bucketload of argument for each and every one of them. In five years they will be whispering what they cry out loud now. In ten years they will either get real and accept people for the individual their Creator made them as or die a political death as a hypocrite who does not really respect what true freedom means..

Best
Randy

[fj45lvr]

Unfortunately some on the group just don't get it.....they NEED republicans to win a republican primary. That's why Randy and his buddies will assist Paul in sealing his defeat....when tragically Paul is the MOST conservative member of Congress, respectful of others and honest.

It seems many of Pauls "supporters" have their OWN agenda which will submarine our efforts to try to persuade the Republicans to find out about him and want to join the "revolution"......

It wouldn't surprise me one bit if many of these "combatant activists" fail to register republican either BTW.

.....I guess they are just too SELFISH to listen to reason in the regard to WISDOM.....go ahead and be COMBATANTS and "take your shots at THE MAN" in a wild JUVINILE tantrum.

you're really confused if you equate a calculated actual war (with blood) on tyranny with being a rude "activist combatant" shouting over others conversations or sticking signs in their faces (moronic behavior)

We're smart enough to know that the the hemp fest crowd isn't going to overcome and outvote the republican base pissing them off in the feeble attempt to do so. Your type is doomed to rot away in 3rd party purgatory.

[fj45lvr]

Unfortunately

[Nefertiti]

I think Max needs to be ignored here in this thread. BUt that's just me.

Who?

[fj45lvr]

We are taking over the party whether you ned flanders types like it or not.


LOL that's a good one....I needed some comedy in this thread



We take no shit from no one.


No....you're more concerned about dishing it out to the other guys.

[quickmike]

LOL that's a good one....I needed some comedy in this thread

Straight from the man himself..............


http://www.mehrzweckbeutel.de/staubsauger/images/beutelbilder/groening_comics_rot.gif

[SlapItHigh]

This may not go over too well with the ladies, but IN GENERAL, the concept of women's suffrage (voting rights) is incompatible with individual liberty and limited government..

Uh Max, read your above statement again reeaaal slow. What a contradiction! I appreciate you trying to present an arguement and while you do make some good points, your logic is fatally flawed.

I do agree that in general, there are instinctive roles for men and women. You just haven't summarized them very well with your one sided view. You are completely ignoring anything that women bring to men. Without women, babies wouldn't be able to survive either. Regardless, none of this has anything to do with intelligence.

Individual Liberty. Think about it. You can't have individual liberty when an entire gender is not allowed to vote.

[fj45lvr]

Individual Liberty. Think about it. You can't have individual liberty when an entire gender is not allowed to vote.

Tell that to the authors of the Constitution. whether people disagree or NOT things would be much different today if what the founders intended as to voting was still the status quo (that doesn't mean that it was a big error but true none the less)

[SlapItHigh]

Tell that to the authors of the Constitution. whether people disagree or NOT things would be much different today if what the founders intended as to voting was still the status quo (that doesn't mean that it was a big error but true none the less)

Huh? Yeah, I understand that cause and effect exists. Every scenario would be different today if *fill in the blank*. Either you don't get the point or you don't understand what individual liberty means.

[Revolution9]

Unfortunately some on the group just don't get it.....they NEED republicans to win a republican primary. That's why Randy and his buddies will assist Paul in sealing his defeat....w<snip BS>.

You sir are a malcontent categorizer of people without knowing their true intent and never having met them as well as an agitpropist and control freak. I believe that your mindset is indicative of establishment republicans. And NO..you won't win the primaries with just establishment Republicans. Take a look at the last two straw poll announcement videos where Dr Paul won. Those people that delivered those victories were not Republican in 2004. or 2001 or Democrat in 1996, The establishment Repugs cast their votes for Mitt and Giulian.. They showed no ass nor momentum. We..outside the republican extablishment have grabbed the ball and ran wth it and you are a mistaken hypocrite to try and shut us down or categorise us like some broadbrushing cultural racist. I can claim a police officer, a military man out on his motorcycle, a young black fellow, he artist friend, several folks at the pizza parlor, the head of the local business association and about 6 to 8 others as definite converts who will vote. That was just yesterday and includes about forty giveor take a few souls..and am i just getting warmed up.. I got some local fame here too and if I am politically active that surely turns heads with a "WTF??if he is doing this I need to check this Ron Paul guy out". We also got about six hundred horn honks in two hours and a guy who rode by on a bike saw me decked out in my revolutionary war gear and tricorn museim replica hat waving my Ron Paul 2008 offishul campaign sign and yelled back at us "I dunno who that is but I'm voting for him cuz that guy in the hat is"". Go..Write the leaders of my meetup group and tell them you think guys like me will lose this for Ron. They will know exactly who you are and pay you no mind. They insisted I show up for all the rallies. They know who I am..I could give you Linda's email, who is an older lady from Macon who is probably the hardest core red state Republican who came to our rally and she was pals with Jason and I by the end of it and gave us tons of bumper stickers and slim jims as well as us purchasing some lawn signs she had.( Jason is my 22 year old son) You shall remain a bigot I see.

I am adamantly opposed to your type of mindset. I will fight side by side with your type to get Ron elected and if you would drop your baragrugously bigoted mindset you might find those of us you attempt to broadbrush negatively your staunchest allies. Can you handle that?

Randy

[fj45lvr]

Huh? Yeah, I understand that cause and effect exists. Every scenario would be different today if *fill in the blank*. Either you don't get the point or you don't understand what individual liberty means.

You don't get it. The founders understood liberty...they also limited who could vote. Don't mix up the two....you can have liberty and not have the right to vote depending on what the "rule of law" is....if that makes sense...do you think convicted felons have liberty in the U.S.??

[fj45lvr]

You sir are a malcontent categorizer of people without knowing their true intent and never having met them as well as an agitpropist and control freak. I believe that your mindset is indicative of establishment republicans. And NO..you won't win the primaries with just establishment Republicans. Take a look at the last two straw poll announcement videos where Dr Paul won. Those people that delivered those victories were not Republican in 2004. or 2001 or Democrat in 1996, The establishment Repugs cast their votes for Mitt and Giulian.. They showed no ass nor momentum. We..outside the republican extablishment have grabbed the ball and ran wth it and you are a mistaken hypocrite to try and shut us down or categorise us like some broadbrushing cultural racist. I can claim a police officer, a military man out on his motorcycle, a young black fellow, he artist friend, several folks at the pizza parlor, the head of the local business association and about 6 to 8 others as definite converts who will vote. That was just yesterday and includes about forty giveor take a few souls..and am i just getting warmed up.. I got some local fame here too and if I am politically active that surely turns heads with a "WTF??if he is doing this I need to check this Ron Paul guy out". We also got about six hundred horn honks in two hours and a guy who rode by on a bike saw me decked out in my revolutionary war gear and tricorn museim replica hat waving my Ron Paul 2008 offishul campaign sign and yelled back at us "I dunno who that is but I'm voting for him cuz that guy in the hat is"". Go..Write the leaders of my meetup group and tell them you think guys like me will lose this for Ron. They will know exactly who you are and pay you no mind. They insisted I show up for all the rallies. They know who I am..I could give you Linda's email, who is an older lady from Macon who is probably the hardest core red state Republican who came to our rally and she was pals with Jason and I by the end of it and gave us tons of bumper stickers and slim jims as well as us purchasing some lawn signs she had.( Jason is my 22 year old son) You shall remain a bigot I see.

I am adamantly opposed to your type of mindset. I will fight side by side with your type to get Ron elected and if you would drop your baragrugously bigoted mindset you might find those of us you attempt to broadbrush negatively your staunchest allies. Can you handle that?

Randy

I'm glad to hear you don't go to republican straw polls and shove signs in people's faces and shout over the top of their talking too.....Good Job Randy, maybe you do have some class and respect.

[Gee]

This may not go over too well with the ladies, but IN GENERAL, the concept of women's suffrage (voting rights) is incompatible with individual liberty and limited government..
The framers did not want women to vote because they were under the mistaken impression that they were not intellectually capable of doing it intelligently. It was an error in science amplified by natural gender roles which made women have little reason to seek much of an education. The first place in the world to have women's suffrage was New Jersey in 1776.

The framers only wanted land-owners to be able to vote, because they feared the wealthy would force their employees (often illiterate) to vote for the candidate they supported. I'm all for suffrage, but someone who cannot read and knows nothing of the candidates probably shouldn't be voting because his boss tells him to. Fortunately, we've come a long way since then.

The problem isn't that women seek special protection more than men, its that they sometimes seek it from the government. Most people don't even take the time to think about what government is, so I can hardly blame them. If you think our society has, as a whole, become less free since women's suffrage you're either smoking some good crack, or are only thinking of freedom in terms of white males. Yeah we've taken some steps backward (especially economically), but we've taken a whole lot more forward.

[Revolution9]

Depends if your goal is to take over the party or restore it. Randy's goal seems to be the former, which is a goal that Ron Paul doesn't share.

Piss off monkey boy. You cannot just throw insults at me without getting blowback, passive aggressively couched though those insults may be.. I was trying to restore the Republic as far back as 1990 when I finally got a grip on the long range plans. I was alerting citizens long before you began awakening from ypur little snoozefest. I can see your a baseball fan by your avatar. Jocks just never understand artist/musician types. You do things ala the team spirit and ensconce yourself and your identity within a group. I can never do that. That is precisiely what a Republic is. I..the one lone individual who wants to live my life as I and my maker see fit, to express myself as i and my maker see fit and to follow doctrine as only I and my maker see fit is protected from the mob of "team spirit" minded non-individuals who want evrybody to act and think like them.

So..are you for freedom or not? I am a Son Of Liberty. This is about a philosophy..not a man..The Man himself will tell you so.

Randy

[Gee]

You don't get it. The founders understood liberty...they also limited who could vote. Don't mix up the two....you can have liberty and not have the right to vote depending on what the "rule of law" is....if that makes sense...do you think convicted felons have liberty in the U.S.??
That is true (such as in Hong Kong under British rule), but keep in mind why the framers chose to have a democratic republic. Voting wasn't put in place because the liked the idea of it, it was a way to prevent tyranny by other forms of government. You can have liberty without suffrage, but it may not necessarily last.

I doubt much would really change if women didn't vote. For the most part men have women's best interests at heart anyways (or think they do). We'd probably have more war-like leaders, which wouldn't be good, and less welfare as well (probably a good thing, but I'll take welfare over war).

[fj45lvr]

If you think our society has, as a whole, become less free since women's suffrage you're either smoking some good crack, or are only thinking of freedom in terms of white males. Yeah we've taken some steps backward (especially economically), but we've taken a whole lot more forward.


Some good insight there. I am curious to know what things you see have made us "more free" over the years?? I know slavery is one such damning blot. But I am of the opinion that systematically things have continually evolved the opposite direction and I can't think of where we have gained much if anything...in fact I would be of the opinion that we have to get "permission" for a great majority of what is done privately today.

I also while recognizing that if voting was contained to land owners we would see a different gov. do recognize that most of the federal laws passed are done so by a vast majority of male congressmen.

[Wyurm]

hey guys I want to bring the guy that actually filmed that video over here, he's really a nice guy and would be a good asset to the forum, but I dont want to bring him here and have him see this thread loaded with sexist, anarchistic statements. This is all really going nowhere, so if you don't mind, please just let it die.

[axiomata]

Piss off monkey boy. You cannot just throw insults at me without getting blowback, passive aggressively couched though those insults may be..

Who is throwing insults? It certainly is not I.

[max]

i wasnt denigrating women and I have the utmost respect for their God given roles as caretakers and nurturers.

My point is, that for reasons having to do with nature as well as nurture, women will generally gravite towrads, and be more vulnerable towards, the statist demagogues who offer to care for us from cradle to grave.

And in the case of the millions of single moms out there, the state actually becomes "the husband." I'm not blaming women for having these impulses to be secure and protected...They have every right to expect that from the men in their lives.

The danger as I see it, is that this natural impulse, when misdirecetd by statists, paves the road for socialism.

It also prevenets us from fighting political wars as men. We have to walk on egg shells when calling a dirty lying scumbag a dirty lying scumbag. We are forced to tone our anger down for fear of alienating (or scaring away) voters. This provides protective cover for the criminal elites. And who are these so easily frightened voters that we have to tip toe around?..generally females.

Because we have to tread carefully, traitors and criminals cannot be called traitors and criminals. In all fairness, given what I call the wussification of the American male, today's "men" are also part of the problem

[Gee]

Some good insight there. I am curious to know what things you see have made us "more free" over the years?? I know slavery is one such damning blot. But I am of the opinion that systematically things have continually evolved the opposite direction and I can't think of where we have gained much if anything...in fact I would be of the opinion that we have to get "permission" for a great majority of what is done privately today.
Mostly civil rights for women, blacks, immigrants, gays, etc. Yeah, it sucks to have to get a permit to buy a house, but that beats getting lynched and hung by an angry mob with little chance of justice, doesn't it?


I also while recognizing that if voting was contained to land owners we would see a different gov. do recognize that most of the federal laws passed are done so by a vast majority of male congressmen.
It would probably be even more slanted in favor of the rich than it already is. A healthy economy needs social mobility, something which has been reduced lately. We replaced laws which kept people back due to their race or gender with laws which keep people back in more subtle ways. The cost imposed by regulation is mostly uniform across the poor and rich, small or large businesses. It almost always hits the little guy harder. Not to mention the Fed...

[The Good Doctor]

I don't know has this been verified to be him? I looked him up on the web this guy standing on the sign looks a little more rough than the clean cut guy I saw. If it is true then shame on him. And the tape tells the tale. He should be mocked out of Romney's campaign.


Lol, Romney's campaign chairman is a tool. Look at the anger in his face.

[axiomata]

I don't know has this been verified to be him? I looked him up on the web this guy standing on the sign looks a little more rough than the clean cut guy I saw. If it is true then shame on him. And the tape tells the tale. He should be mocked out of Romney's campaign.
The guy on the sign is not Rutherford, the state senator and Romney Illinois chairman, it is one of his thugs.

[Gee]

The danger as I see it, is that this natural impulse, when misdirecetd by statists, paves the road for socialism.
And the natural impulses of men pave the way for war.

[max]

And the natural impulses of men pave the way for war.


I cant argue with that. We are a bloodthirsty gender. So if women voters spawn socialism, and men voters spawn war, the ideal system would have been for the founders to set themselves up as a self perpetuating Council of Elders with Washingtom as King and his successors to be chosen by the elders.

Thats what Plato envisioned in his Republic.

It seems that whenever the inmates (voters) are allowed to choose the asylum leader..it always deteriorates into socialism , endless wars, and currency collapse.

So perhaps it is suffrage altogether ..this "right" to vote, that is the problem. Maybe the vote should be restricted to the top 20% in IQ who can pass a rigorouse exam on free market economics and philosophy.

What we have now is ludicrous. Any moron with a birth cerftificate gets to have a say in running my life and determining the course of civilization. Look what it has gotten us?

[SlapItHigh]

My point is, that for reasons having to do with nature as well as nurture, women will generally gravite towrads, and be more vulnerable towards, the statist demagogues who offer to care for us from cradle to grave.

Flawed logic again. If many women gravitate towards men who are strong and able to protect and financially support a family that is one thing. Wanting a statist demagogue in political power is completely different. In fact, it is actually contradictary. I think you do realize that which is why you brought up the single mother thing because a women doesn't want two of the same when one can overpower the other. This situation only makes the slightest bit of sense when it comes to single mothers...even then you are reaching.

What about the fact that a large percentage of men these days are not physically capable of being a good protector, are not bringing in a good income, etc? Does a statist demagogue not give them an incentive to not perform their manly duties when someone else can take care of their family from cradle to grave? Perhaps more incentive than women have to want the same?

[fj45lvr]

Mostly civil rights for women, blacks, immigrants, gays, etc. Yeah, it sucks to have to get a permit to buy a house, but that beats getting lynched and hung by an angry mob with little chance of justice, doesn't it?

This is kind of funny...as a student of the 1848-1860 era gold rush out west there were many examples of "mob" mentality but it is a known fact that people left their gold and possessions right on the table and there was little theft...it might of had to do with people showing a greater deal of respect then or maybe the fear of the consequences....it is ironic that they would not steal but had no problem denegrating an indian, chinamen, or mexican.

The civil rights are a good thing but that is a fraction of the beast that has been created whereas with a multitude of laws you lose respect for them all.



It would probably be even more slanted in favor of the rich than it already is. ...

I disagree with that assumption....I think alot of the problems we face politically are from uneducated, ignorant, or welfare state members voting....I am actually comforted that less than 50% of the populous vote because it would scare me to see what this mass would do (based on seeing the kind of advertising that marketeers use to "sell" today)... but then again I do believe that the "dumbing down" of America is an unfortunate reality...my great grandparents were educated to 5th grade on the prarie and knew more than many quote unquote "educated" (or indoctrinated) we have today.

[max]

[*************************If many women gravitate towards men who are strong and able to protect and financially support a family that is one thing. Wanting a statist demagogue in political power is completely different. In fact, it is actually contradictary. I think you do realize that which is why you brought up the single mother thing because a women doesn't want two of the same when one can overpower the other. This situation only makes the slightest bit of sense when it comes to single mothers...even then you are reaching.****************************

The proof is in the pudding. Most women vote democrat. And those that vote Republican favor the so-called "moderates." When a guy who wants to dismantle the nanny state comes along...WOMEN VOTERS FLEE IN DROVES.

Buchanan did poorly with GOP women, as Goldwater was trounced by LBJ among women voters. When the media starts attacking Ron Paul for "throwing people into the streets" or shutting down Dept of Education, Homeland Security etc...He's gonna have a hard time with frieghtened females (and feminized men as well)

By the way, I dont think too highly of the beer guzzling - sports crazed male voter either. I could do a whole other socoilogical/psychological profile dealing with the subject of childhood based male insecurity manifesting itself in the form of warmongering.

[The Good Doctor]

All right people! Let's do something worth a shit and get over to the campaign headquarters web site and get some money for Ron Paul's birthday card! I dropped some in last night.

Let this rhetoric die. It was an incident that could have been worse. It will be forgotten as we continue to rank high in and win other straw polls.

The best thing we can do is support Ron Paul when we can and get him some cash so that he can have a hell of a third quarter showing so his campaign can gather steam!

It's the message! Focus on that! We don't need to have any divisions in the ranks! We need a unified front!

[SlapItHigh]

The proof is in the pudding. Most women vote democrat.

Correlation does not imply causation.

[Revolution9]

I'm glad to hear you don't go to republican straw polls and shove signs in people's faces and shout over the top of their talking too.....Good Job Randy, maybe you do have some class and respect.

How lovngly smarmy of you to say so. Perhaps it would have been more congruent to apologize for the broad brush you stroked.judged/categorized into stereotyped formed by MSM/insulted Ron's supporters with.

Best
Randy

[Gee]

The civil rights are a good thing but that is a fraction of the beast that has been created whereas with a multitude of laws you lose respect for them all.
Well, thats true. People don't respect the law, but they do mostly still respect property rights and liberty. Discrimination based on race or gender has been replaced with discrimination based on acts in the economy.


I disagree with that assumption....I think alot of the problems we face politically are from uneducated, ignorant, or welfare state members voting....I am actually comforted that less than 50% of the populous vote because it would scare me to see what this mass would do (based on seeing the kind of advertising that marketeers use to "sell" today)... but then again I do believe that the "dumbing down" of America is an unfortunate reality...my great grandparents were educated to 5th grade on the prarie and knew more than many quote unquote "educated" (or indoctrinated) we have today.
True... I suppose the people who you don't want voting are ones that vote in order to use state coercion to exploit his or her fellow Americans. The problem is that these people seem to come from all walks of life. Socialism wasn't first championed by the lower classes, much of this stuff starts with so-called intellectuals (who often either ignore or make up reasons for ignoring economics). The big problem is that people are willing to use the law to commit acts they would never dream of committing themselves. The legitimacy of state-initiated violence is what needs to be exposed for the hypocrisy it is.


Correlation does not imply causation.
The most insightful comment yet, and not from a male. Besides, nanny states have existed before women's suffrage. Roman emperors would give out charity from the public treasury in order to legitimize their reigns, and it is part of what bankrupted them.

[Nefertiti]

I cant argue with that. We are a bloodthirsty gender. So if women voters spawn socialism, and men voters spawn war,

As a woman, I have a bit of insight into how women "fight." Chances are if Hillary becomes president we might see a smaller less aggressive military but chances are we will see a blossoming of the CIA and other related agencies as well as covert operations of various sorts. Women aren't so in your face but they will engage in stealth tactics of quiet revenge.

[Horatio_Bunce]

This episode just goes to show that certain individuals only believe in coersion and force.

Senator Rutherford should be ashamed.

[loupeznik]

Remember the Maine!

[Ira Aten]

Ron Paul won the New Hampshire Straw Poll by a landslide.
It was 74 percent for RP.

He also won Alabama on the same day, August 17th.

...Now, on to Texas!

(Insert Howard Dean Braying Mule sound bite here)

[jeremycobert]

has anyone posted this guys webpage yet ? if not here it is. assuming this is the same Dan Rutherford. its hard to tell from the video with that pouting look on his face.

www.DanRutherford.org
or
http://www.danrutherford.com/

and Illinois residents, be sure to vote in Dans little straw poll. i would love to see the look on his face as the RP votes landslide his boy Romney!!!

http://danrutherford.cmititestbank.com/2008PresPrimary/vote.asp

[Ira Aten]

I think I messed up.
I don't live in Illinois. I accidentally voted for Ron Paul in his little poll thingie.
Don't know if it registered or not, it just said "Thank You" for voting.

But the results aren't on there. I didn't realize he was only wanting Illinois voters.

My bad.