Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark? [Archive]

Dr.3D

03-11-2008, 11:52 AM

If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck and looks like a duck, then it is probably a duck.

I would resist this 'mark' because it resembles what is told of in the book of Revelation.

Many churches have pretty much thrown the book of Revelation aside because they figure they can not understand it, so the best way to handle it is to ignore it.

That is the wrong mindset and those who are doing so, do it at their own peril.

I've been told, many church leaders have been infiltrated by the powers that be and thus will not discuss this problem. This could explain why there is so much apathy in the church as to the coming mark of the beast.

When in doubt, it is best to resist anything resembling that we have been warned about.

UnReconstructed

03-11-2008, 11:54 AM

It is a precursor to it and it is definitely a bad thing but you can't fight the mark. It's coming for those that will be left here. They will either choose to take it or be beheaded.

Kade

03-11-2008, 11:55 AM

soapmistress

03-11-2008, 12:00 PM

In one of my Myspace groups (a mom group) there was a very serious thread debating whether or not Obama is the anti-christ. I thought it was a joke at first, but no.

Go to youtube and just about every candidate has a "XXX is the antichrist" video

micahnelson

03-11-2008, 12:09 PM

Real ID is a very bad thing.

The idea that it is some supernatural embodiment of an evil spirit to force people into spiritual slavery is frankly batshit.

The anti-christ is against God. The federal government believes it is your God.

It is a subtle difference.

There was a time when barcodes were raising concerns among Christian circles, but these days if you say it will keep your children safe from ___________, they go for it.

Not just Christians, of course, but I am disappointed. I thought they of all people would oppose national ID.

For the record, I am not a dispensationalist.

Dr.3D

03-11-2008, 12:10 PM

It is a precursor to it and it is definitely a bad thing but you can't fight the mark. It's coming for those that will be left here. They will either choose to take it or be beheaded.

Don't be alarmed if believers are still here when there is the required acceptance of the 'mark'. In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture.

acptulsa

03-11-2008, 12:21 PM

Real ID is a very bad thing.

The idea that it is some supernatural embodiment of an evil spirit to force people into spiritual slavery is frankly batshit.

If batshit proves to be an effective weapon against a bad thing, I am prepared to wield it.

Kade

03-11-2008, 12:35 PM

Don't be alarmed if believers are still here when there is the required acceptance of the 'mark'. In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture.

In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a legitimate scholar of "supernatural" things...

If you are implying that you have somehow studied something that gave insight to a supernatural event of some sort, I have to call bullshit.

Kade

03-11-2008, 12:36 PM

If batshit proves to be an effective weapon against a bad thing, I am prepared to wield it.

Touché

Dr.3D

03-11-2008, 12:40 PM

In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a legitimate scholar of "supernatural" things...

If you are implying that you have somehow studied something that gave insight to a supernatural event of some sort, I have to call bullshit.

To each his own my friend.

You can call it bullshit..... we can choose to believe what we want.

Seems you have some kind of chip on your shoulder.
You don't see me going around making fun of what you believe or as you would say, don't believe.

Have a nice day. :)

Kade

03-11-2008, 01:12 PM

To each his own my friend.

You can call it bullshit..... we can choose to believe what we want.

Seems you have some kind of chip on your shoulder.
You don't see me going around making fun of what you believe or as you would say, don't believe.

Have a nice day. :)

There is no making fun of non-existence. I can only point it out.

http://www.markdroberts.com/images/Leprechaun.jpg

A. Havnes

03-11-2008, 01:30 PM

Back on the original subject, I think it could definately be a precursor to it, but I'm very cautious before saying anything for certain is or isn't the mark, antichrist, etc. Personally, I wouldn't accept a RealID card due to religious reasons and also for patriotic reasons.

Macon, GA

03-11-2008, 04:28 PM

There is a remnant of Christians who are not Dispensational in their doctrine. Have any of you ever heard of Postmillenialism? No rapture, no antichrist (many antichrists, look at I John), no mark of the beast. Check out www.americanvision.org for more information on that. Dispensationalism is a fairly new teaching. The Church Fathers would have never recognized it as legitimate. It makes for pretty good fiction, but terrible theology.

porcupine

03-11-2008, 04:41 PM

I love the Ridley Report!

By the way if you want to resist Real ID, it would help to move to a state that has opted out by law. New Hampshire has made it illegal to participate in any national ID card and you'd have plently of libertarians there to back you up. Another reason to join the Free State Project

jkm1864

03-11-2008, 07:16 PM

mrsat_98

03-11-2008, 07:22 PM

I agree it is the precursor to the mark of the beast. You will see the National ID then they will tie the buying of selling of goods to it. After that then congress will push for it to be inserted into the skin. I would imagine at that point its time to reevaluate our situation big time. I can not believe people do not notice what is coming. I am especially mad at christians for allowing this but hey I think they will get punished during the tribulation.

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Is it ?
0
a=6
b=12
c=18
d=24
e=30
f=36
g=42
h=48
i=54
j=60
k=66
l=72
m=78
n=84
o=90
p=96
q=102
r=108
s=114
t=120
u=126
v=132
w=138
x=144
y=150
z=156

c 18
o 90
m 78
p 96
u 126
t 120
e 30
r 108
------
666 mark of the beast

n 84
e 30
w 138
y 150
o 90
r 108
k 66
----------
666 = mystery babylon the great

Reverse the order of the letters i.e z=6.....a=156 INTERNET=666

hypnagogue

03-11-2008, 07:50 PM

16And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

17And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.

18Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

Is it ?
0
a=6
b=12
c=18
d=24
e=30
f=36
g=42
h=48
i=54
j=60
k=66
l=72
m=78
n=84
o=90
p=96
q=102
r=108
s=114
t=120
u=126
v=132
w=138
x=144
y=150
z=156

c 18
o 90
m 78
p 96
u 126
t 120
e 30
r 108
------
666 mark of the beast

n 84
e 30
w 138
y 150
o 90
r 108
k 66
----------
666 = mystery babylon the great

Reverse the order of the letters i.e z=6.....a=156 INTERNET=666 LMAO. Seriously, that's good stuff there.

Time for Change

03-11-2008, 08:38 PM

it is a precursor...absolutely.
The detention camps are for those who resist.

Maybe I am incorrect, maybe I am kidding, maybe I am not...you decide.

Terrible storms, famine, great war and rumor of wars...think about it (if you know anything about the bible)

You never know...

but hey, every person is born with free will. Free to decide to believe or not to believe.

.

hillbilly123069

03-11-2008, 08:55 PM

The mark of the beast will likely be a global ID. 1 step away if they pull this off.

Doktor_Jeep

03-11-2008, 11:03 PM

The christians are amongst the most deceived of the peoples. Don't expect them to get a clue until everything they sold out the word of God for is lost and they are suffering.

As for Obama being the antichrist, I asked that question once to someone who is well versed in these matters. The antichrist described in the bible actually openly claims to be the savior and performs, or appears to, perform miracles.

The only miracle Obama managed to pull off was to get enough votes to override the fixed voting machines. Too bad Ron Paul could not muster up a few angels for that stunt. Obama also managed somehow not to get assasinated when the Secret Service made the police stop screening for weapons during a rally. But heck the CIA might have over-drugged their killbot for the mission and he hit the wrong place or got lost.

jjank11

03-12-2008, 01:21 AM

abruzz0

03-12-2008, 01:41 AM

There is no making fun of non-existence. I can only point it out.

http://www.markdroberts.com/images/Leprechaun.jpg

Pointing something out that's "non-existent" wouldn't be possible, because pointing it out means it does exist. You can't point out the existence of a non-existing thing and say that it's non-existent.

lol, uFail

abruzz0

03-12-2008, 01:49 AM

Also, to answer the question... the reason is, as stated in the Bible, many people will be deceived. That includes "Christians." A lot of people will be deceived into taking "the mark," whatever it may be. Is it the Real ID? Perhaps. How did people react to credit cards, bar codes, PIN numbers, and all that? However, I think the government is crossing the line here. Maybe they're trying to soften us up for the REAL mark, which is probably an implantable chip of some sort. The RFIDs are already in those cards, right? And we already have people chipping themselves in the name of "security." I think the Real ID may be a pre-cursor of future "marks." I'm on the lookout for sure. In addition, talks about a cashless society come to mind when I hear about "the mark." In Revelation, it talks about how no man will be able to buy or sell without the mark. That translates into cashless society for me... or a society based on some kind of electronic credit system. Paper currencies, commodities, precious metals, etc., will be wiped out by this system. But who knows? Let's see where this thing winds up. I will remain skeptical and critical of what the Homeland Security dictatorship deems to be in our best interest.

abruzz0

03-12-2008, 01:56 AM

Yes, i hate to say this sometimes but christians do really get hosed and it is basically for their own ideology of not accepting something even if it makes complete sense.

They pray for peace but yet vote for war.........how does that make sense at all????

Obama is more akin to the Muhammad that the radical islamists portray him to be.

Clearly, because someone claims to be a Christian it does not mean by default that they aren't prone to hypocrisy, succuming to ignorance, or are just flat-out stupid. I'm a Christian, so to speak, and with all the shit we have going on today, I see it as a huge red flag alert. I don't know why so many Christians are so gullible and blind. I think the Bible is right when it talks about the masses being deceived. And I do believe we are headed towards some dark times.

Your point about praying for peace yet voting for war is an extremely valid one. Ron Paul, as a Christian himself, preaches this concept and lives it. He's the truth here. He's the real deal. Why can't Christians see that?

It's fear... and a lack of faith on their part, I believe

They fear those "terrorists" and they think Monarch Bush, appointed by God Himself, will save America from those evil Muslims.

The world is totally fucked

WV Freedom Fighter

03-12-2008, 03:05 AM

I will remain skeptical and critical of what the Homeland Security dictatorship deems to be in our best interest.

Oh yeah, what's that's director of Homeland securities name? Chertoff?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9184/chertoffdeeshy6.jpg

Kotin

03-12-2008, 03:44 AM

Oh yeah, what's that's director of Homeland securities name? Chertoff?

http://img513.imageshack.us/img513/9184/chertoffdeeshy6.jpg

ladies and gentlemen we have a winner.

bucfish

03-12-2008, 04:34 AM

You can check out the progress of the RFID here

http://www.rfidjournal.com/

wv@SC

03-12-2008, 06:37 AM

NO to the Real ID.

If you want to fly in a plane, get a passport. Don't make the rest of us have to pay for something we rarely ever use (airplanes) and something we highly prize (freedom of privacy and money).

Yay for SOUTH CAROLINA! 1 of 4 to say NO to the Real ID! (http://www.wltx.com/news/story.aspx?storyid=48499)

Truth Warrior

03-12-2008, 07:01 AM

Keep a lookout for something happening to the Muslim's "Dome of the Rock" mosque in Jerusalem. It will need to be "removed" before the Jewish Temple can be rebuilt.

molly_pitcher

03-12-2008, 08:01 AM

micahnelson

03-12-2008, 08:07 AM

There are those that are actually pushing for the return of Christ, musn't forget those guys. They support all this stuff and feel it verifies their faith. Those anticipating both the first and second coming of the Messiah have their hands in the pot.

The tricky side in believing negative prophecy. Should you oppose the antichrist, should he be a real person?

Jesus stayed Peter's sword when he cut the ear off the roman guard. He cited things that "must be". Should we not oppose the coming tyrant?

For this, and other reasons, I don't read Revelations like the Left Behind book series.

dawnbt

03-12-2008, 08:31 AM

Many Christians today, when looking at the biblical descriptions of the Millennium, conclude that it is their responsibility to become not just socially active, but also politically active, so they can advance the moral and societal issues they believe would help bring millennial conditions on Earth. But did Jesus Christ actually desire that His people would try to "fix" this world? Or was His priority to proclaim and prepare for the next age, through propagating the good news of His Kingdom (Matthew 24:14)? Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this world (John 18:36), and the Apostle Paul described himself as an "ambassador for Christ" for that coming Kingdom (2 Corinthians 5:20). Indeed, God’s true Church will not be entangled with the politics of this present evil world, but rather will be busy proclaiming the coming one!
Yes, there will always be people who strive to influence kings and nations in the name of their religion. Bible prophecy even reveals that a great false church will entangle itself with an anti-God political entity and bring all humanity to the brink of extinction! "Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication…" (Revelation 17:1–2). This "harlot"—or false church—will be part of a system that makes "war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them, for He is Lord of lords and King of kings; and those who are with Him are called, chosen, and faithful" (Revelation 17:14). This conflict will bring about a horrific time of war the Bible calls the "Day of the Lord," which will come very close to extinguishing all life on Earth. However, Jesus Christ will return before all mankind is destroyed (Matthew 24:21–22).
Christ certainly wants us to love our neighbors (Matthew 19:19), and to do good to all people as we are able and have opportunity (Galatians 6:10). But the mission of the Church is to do the Work of God, not to transform this world now. The Church Jesus Christ founded will follow His example by proclaiming the true gospel to the world. It will not be distracted by a false gospel of political or social activism, because it will be busy proclaiming the good news of His coming Kingdom!

http://www.tomorrowsworld.org/cgi-bin/tw/tw-mag.cgi?category=Magazine53&item=1204358829

Macon, GA

03-13-2008, 04:36 AM

Keep a lookout for something happening to the Muslim's "Dome of the Rock" mosque in Jerusalem. It will need to be "removed" before the Jewish Temple can be rebuilt.

There will be no new Temple, and no sacrifices given. JESUS was the final sacrifice. His sacrifice smoothed God's wrinkled brow so to speak. Do you really think the blood of bulls or goats sacrificed in a newly built Temple would please God after the ultimate sacrifice has been made? It would be an affront to Him.

God destroyed the Temple for a reason.......... It wasn't so that it could be rebuilt years later so that the Jewish people could begin sacrificing animals again.

Where is the tribe of Levi? Where is the red heifer?

No mark of the beast, No antichrist. You all have bought the lie of Premillenial Dispensationalism, probably because you have never researched any other eschatological view.

Scofield, Ryrie, Hal Lindsey, Dave Hunt, Ice.... even MacArthur...... all have it wrong.

Go back and study the early church fathers....

sophocles07

03-13-2008, 04:51 AM

This thread is dancing on the tightrope of complete insanity.

bkreigh

03-13-2008, 05:00 PM

Its pretty a simple answer why they fight against it. If they can get brainwashed by a church then they can get brainwashed by the government. I see more atheists like myself deny this ID card. The religious folks think everything is well and good on the earth god created.

Kade

03-14-2008, 09:23 AM

http://img.alibaba.com/photo/10108356/Natural_Guano_Phosphate.jpg

familydog

03-14-2008, 12:25 PM

Cool. Another thread of anti-Christian collectivism.

Kade

03-14-2008, 02:16 PM

Cool. Another thread of anti-Christian collectivism.

Anti-christian? This guy opened up with friggin mark of the beast... give me a break.

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 02:36 PM

Anti-christian? This guy opened up with friggin mark of the beast... give me a break.

And you saw that as the perfect opportunity to lump all Christians together into a single "moron" and begin making collective batshit out of them.

Sorry bub, but you are a prejudiced collectivist pig. like it or lump it.

Kade

03-14-2008, 02:43 PM

And you saw that as the perfect opportunity to lump all Christians together into a single "moron" and begin making collective batshit out of them.

Sorry bub, but you are a prejudiced collectivist pig. like it or lump it.

I think you just added yourself to that collective batshit. Resorting to defining your opponent in debate fixes the problem, or so I've been told.

Beware the mighty and powerful collectivist pigs of America!

Right... I don't even know what that means.

satchelmcqueen

03-14-2008, 02:47 PM

many christians dont belive it is a mark as the op stated. i beleive the "mark" is symbolic as in those who dont belive in god are "marked". Ehhhh, we all beleive different, but i dont want the card anyhow as i think it is just another form for our government to try and controll us all.

Kade

03-14-2008, 02:53 PM

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 03:11 PM

I think you just added yourself to that collective batshit. Resorting to defining your opponent in debate fixes the problem, or so I've been told.

Beware the mighty and powerful collectivist pigs of America!

Right... I don't even know what that means.

Well judging by the fact that you are a collectivist lump of hate, then I would feel left out if not for being hated by the likes of you. Now go off and wallow in your steaming pile of hatefulness. Seems awfully appropriate anyway.

Kade

03-14-2008, 03:20 PM

Well judging by the fact that you are a collectivist lump of hate, then I would feel left out if not for being hated by the likes of you. Now go off and wallow in your steaming pile of hatefulness. Seems awfully appropriate anyway.

Wait, is this one of those games we play, where we go back and forth until someone says "pwn3d?!"

I'm sorry for interrupting, please, tell me more about your spiritual skyfather, and correct my false misgivings. I don't want to suffer the softening blow of a characterization that I'm sure you could paint yourself in... another type of steaming pile I imagine.

sophocles07

03-14-2008, 04:33 PM

And you saw that as the perfect opportunity to lump all Christians together into a single "moron" and begin making collective batshit out of them.

Sorry bub, but you are a prejudiced collectivist pig. like it or lump it.

And Christians don't call this on by joining a GROUP called the CHRISTIANS? They're asking for it; especially when they discuss literal marks of the beast (METAPHOR, mofos, read up on some ARISTOTLE) for three pages in a serious tone.

dirknb@hotmail.com

03-14-2008, 04:58 PM

They believe they can simply relax and do nothing, because Jesus is going to intervene.

sophocles07

03-14-2008, 05:57 PM

They believe they can simply relax and do nothing, because Jesus is going to intervene.

Quintessential armchair revolutionaries.

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 09:59 PM

The reality is that this existence is much like a seed. We are seeds planted into a temporal soil called "the universe." Some seeds die and become a part of the soil, while some seeds sprout and become creatures of eternity. The conditions that bring about the sprouting of the seed, are the absorption of nutrients and water. The nutrients are truth, and the water is faith.

Hostility is irrelevant, and ignorance is comfortable.

For as much as you detest the contempt that the sheeple hold for those awakened to reality, I am amazed at the level of contempt that you hold for those awakened to the eternal realm.

I assure you that those of us who have been awakened to an awareness of the eternal realm, find you as pitiful and as asleep as you find the FauxNews Sheeple.

What you do not comprehend, and will be unable to envision, is that when we have been awakened to the realm of eternity, we percieve it as clearly as you percieve the material world around you. While there are many nominal Christians (maybe better than half) who remain asleep and simply act from groupthink, those of us who are awake can no more deny the reality of what we percieve any more than you can deny the rocks and the trees and the buildings and the seas around you.

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 10:04 PM

They believe they can simply relax and do nothing, because Jesus is going to intervene.

Failing to do what you know is right, is as much of a sin as actually doing what you know is wrong. Those who believe that they have no need of acting in the face of necessary action, are deceiving themselves.

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 10:07 PM

And Christians don't call this on by joining a GROUP called the CHRISTIANS? They're asking for it; especially when they discuss literal marks of the beast (METAPHOR, mofos, read up on some ARISTOTLE) for three pages in a serious tone.

pure collectivist claptrap. You just used the same argument against Christians, that the Neo-cons use against "Paultards." How does it feel on the other side of the "ignorant collectivist" glass wall?

sophocles07

03-14-2008, 10:11 PM

pure collectivist claptrap. You just used the same argument against Christians, that the Neo-cons use against "Paultards." How does it feel on the other side of the "ignorant collectivist" glass wall?

I've never seen Ron Paul supporters make a religion based in his image. We talk about his ideas--all of which support FREE THOUGHT. That's the opposite of collectivism.

A religion which bases itself in a few tenets is the opposite of individualism. It is, I JOIN THE FAITH; not, I THINK FOR MYSELF.

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 10:15 PM

Wait, is this one of those games we play, where we go back and forth until someone says "pwn3d?!"

I'm sorry to dissapoint, I may not pull any punches or disguise my true feelings, but I am not by any means a juvenile bent on superficial domination by means of wordgames or empty rhetoric.

I'm sorry for interrupting, please, tell me more about your spiritual skyfather, and correct my false misgivings. I don't want to suffer the softening blow of a characterization that I'm sure you could paint yourself in... another type of steaming pile I imagine.

If I thought the request was genuine, and if I were blind to thick dripping syrup of sarcasm oozing from your statement, I might actually feel obliged to humor you.

GunnyFreedom

03-14-2008, 10:24 PM

I've never seen Ron Paul supporters make a religion based in his image. We talk about his ideas--all of which support FREE THOUGHT. That's the opposite of collectivism.

A religion which bases itself in a few tenets is the opposite of individualism. It is, I JOIN THE FAITH; not, I THINK FOR MYSELF.

So what you are saying then, is that free thought is acceptable so long as there are no religious connotations involved, whereupon it becomes perfectly acceptable to derogate and ridicule such thinkers as part of some idiotic collective?

Likewise, the Neocons believe that free thinking is perfectly acceptable amongst Republicans so long as there are no libertarian connotations involved, whereupon it becomes perfectly acceptable to derogate and ridicule them as part of the "paultard" collective.

I quite frankly see no difference between your behavior on this subject, and the behavior of the Neocons regarding the supporters of Ron Paul.

sophocles07

03-15-2008, 03:05 AM

So what you are saying then, is that free thought is acceptable so long as there are no religious connotations involved, whereupon it becomes perfectly acceptable to derogate and ridicule such thinkers as part of some idiotic collective?
I have no “rules” against anyone; if Aquinas popped up tomorrow, I’d be there with him in the next two days or so.

Likewise, the Neocons believe that free thinking is perfectly acceptable amongst Republicans so long as there are no libertarian connotations involved, whereupon it becomes perfectly acceptable to derogate and ridicule them as part of the "paultard" collective.

?

I quite frankly see no difference between your behavior on this subject, and the behavior of the Neocons regarding the supporters of Ron Paul.

You might want to discern sometimes what youre talking about.

Macon, GA

03-15-2008, 05:14 AM

sophocles07

03-15-2008, 10:42 AM

GunnyFreedom

03-15-2008, 10:51 AM

For two people (Sophocles and Kade) that don't believe in God's existence, you sure spend a lot of time visiting Christian threads, spewing your venomous remarks.

Can you hate someone or something that you TRULY don't believe exists?

Wouldn't indifference be more convincing?

Instead of 'more convincing' don't you mean 'less annoying'? ;)

Militant anti-theosophists like them are not content with mere disbelief, or even with stating their disbelief. They are so threatened by the possibility of God, that they feel compelled to go out of their way to actually attack, with all possible alacrity, any mere mention of theology to satisfy some deep insatiable need.

Most psychologists would postulate that this stems from some deeply set insecurity with regards to religion. There are any number of reasons this could have happened. Overbearing religious parents who demand that their children pay homage to a God in which they do not believe, or even from some kind of abuse on the part of a priest, rabbi, or pastor.

Regardless of why they do it, it is important for us to recognize that it is a compulsion over which they have little or no control. You may as well tell a river to stop flowing. Only when the actual insecurity driving the compulsion is addressed can they actually become rational on the subject, and most people in such circumstance (once the insecurity is resolved) simply avoid the subject for the rest of their lives.

The basic truth we must recognize here, is that a whole lot of abuse has been perpetrated against people in the name of religion. You and I know that those who would abuse others in the name of religion do not hold the faith in truth, but with a lack of true knowledge merely parroting the words of those who have come before them. They create an appearance of religious asceticism, without any actual denial of the preeminence of the physical realm. Those who would abuse others in the name of God, are directly responsible for the majority of militant anti-theosophists in the world today.

It is important, then, to understand the compulsions driving this behavior and acknowledge (at least to ourselves) why it is that they attack us. By doing so, we come to the realization that no amount of reason or rationale will sway such people in the slightest. They are on a mission, and that mission is to derogate religion at all costs!

On the internet, they seem a lot more prevalent than they are in the rest of the world. I believe that this is because they are able to hide behind a keyboard to launch their attacks. People like this are as common as sand on Christian forums throughout the Internet, on usenet, on boards, blogs, everywhere. Reverse psychology does not work. Preventing their amusement does not work. The only thing that works, in my experience, it either ignoring them entirely, or allowing them to hang themselves on their own words to the point that they make themselves look foolish enough that they cut their losses and run.

The bottom line is, get used to them. They appear anywhere faith, and particularly Christianity, is discussed online. They are as prevalent as jungle-rot in Vietnam. The only way you will ever find a place to discuss Christianity online without their interference, is through the intercession of a heavy handed moderator. An apt analogy is, if you are a pet lover with lots of animals, then you will have to deal with fleas. There are measures you can take to reduce that annoyance, but you can never remove it completely.

dawnbt

03-15-2008, 10:59 AM

[QUOTE=Macon, GA;1346327]There will be no new Temple, and no sacrifices given. JESUS was the final sacrifice. His sacrifice smoothed God's wrinkled brow so to speak. Do you really think the blood of bulls or goats sacrificed in a newly built Temple would please God after the ultimate sacrifice has been made? It would be an affront to Him.
QUOTE]

The people who will be doing the "sacraficing" don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, therefore, they don't believe he was sacraficed for them.

Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrafice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

sophocles07

03-15-2008, 11:04 AM

Instead of 'more convincing' don't you mean 'less annoying'?

Militant anti-theosophists like them are not content with mere disbelief, or even with stating their disbelief. They are so threatened by the possibility of God, that they feel compelled to go out of their way to actually attack, with all possible alacrity, any mere mention of theology to satisfy some deep insatiable need.

Most psychologists would postulate that this stems from some deeply set insecurity with regards to religion. There are any number of reasons this could have happened. Overbearing religious parents who demand that their children pay homage to a God in which they do not believe, or even from some kind of abuse on the part of a priest, rabbi, or pastor.

Regardless of why they do it, it is important for us to recognize that it is a compulsion over which they have little or no control. You may as well tell a river to stop flowing. Only when the actual insecurity driving the compulsion is addressed can they actually become rational on the subject, and most people in such circumstance (once the insecurity is resolved) simply avoid the subject for the rest of their lives.

The basic truth we must recognize here, is that a whole lot of abuse has been perpetrated against people in the name of religion. You and I know that those who would abuse others in the name of religion do not hold the faith in truth, but with a lack of true knowledge merely parroting the words of those who have come before them. They create an appearance of religious asceticism, without any actual denial of the preeminence of the physical realm. Those who would abuse others in the name of God, are directly responsible for the majority of militant anti-theosophists in the world today.

It is important, then, to understand the compulsions driving this behavior and acknowledge (at least to ourselves) why it is that they attack us. By doing so, we come to the realization that no amount of reason or rationale will sway such people in the slightest. They are on a mission, and that mission is to derogate religion at all costs!

On the internet, they seem a lot more prevalent than they are in the rest of the world. I believe that this is because they are able to hide behind a keyboard to launch their attacks. People like this are as common as sand on Christian forums throughout the Internet, on usenet, on boards, blogs, everywhere. Reverse psychology does not work. Preventing their amusement does not work. The only thing that works, in my experience, it either ignoring them entirely, or allowing them to hang themselves on their own words to the point that they make themselves look foolish enough that they cut their losses and run.

The bottom line is, get used to them. They appear anywhere faith, and particularly Christianity, is discussed online. They are as prevalent as jungle-rot in Vietnam. The only way you will ever find a place to discuss Christianity online without their interference, is through the intercession of a heavy handed moderator. An apt analogy is, if you are a pet lover with lots of animals, then you will have to deal with fleas. There are measures you can take to reduce that annoyance, but you can never remove it completely.

O analysis you look like butt cheeks

Dr.3D

03-15-2008, 11:06 AM

There will be no new Temple, and no sacrifices given. JESUS was the final sacrifice. His sacrifice smoothed God's wrinkled brow so to speak. Do you really think the blood of bulls or goats sacrificed in a newly built Temple would please God after the ultimate sacrifice has been made? It would be an affront to Him.

The people who will be doing the "sacraficing" don't believe that Jesus was the Messiah, therefore, they don't believe he was sacraficed for them.

Daniel 12:11 "And from the time that the daily sacrafice is taken away, and the abomination of desolation is set up, there shall be one thousand two hundred and ninety days."

If we read Daniel 12:11 correctly, then do we think of a day as being a year?

If so, then in the year 70 CE, the temple was destroyed and the sacrificing was ended. If we then add 1290 years to that, we come up with the year 1360.

What happened in the year 1360?

Or are we talking about the years between 538-1798?

GunnyFreedom

03-15-2008, 11:08 AM

O analysis you look like butt cheeks

So what you are telling us then, is that your argument basically boils down to "big thighs and butt cheeks?" :)

sophocles07

03-15-2008, 11:13 AM

So what you are telling us then, is that your argument basically boils down to "big thighs and butt cheeks?"

Fleshy nubs and horseshoes

I'm h
u
n
g
over on
b
l
e
n
d
e
d
scotch
&
w
h
i
s
k
ey,

o buttcheeks

GunnyFreedom

03-15-2008, 11:25 AM

Fleshy nubs and horseshoes

I'm h
u
n
g
over on
b
l
e
n
d
e
d
scotch
&
w
h
i
s
k
ey,
o buttcheeks

Ahh, well, this explains everything!

Macon, GA

03-15-2008, 02:21 PM

Gunny Freedom....

We could be friends!

The only thing that works, in my experience, it either ignoring them entirely, or allowing them to hang themselves on their own words to the point that they make themselves look foolish enough that they cut their losses and run.

I have Sophocles on my "Ignore" list. However, I must admit that from time to time my curiousity gets the best of me and I have to peek at what he/she has written.

I saw the "BIG THIGHS" reference :eek:! Sticks and stones, O Sophocles.....

Macon, GA

03-15-2008, 02:35 PM

Kade

03-15-2008, 03:46 PM

Instead of 'more convincing' don't you mean 'less annoying'? ;)

Militant anti-theosophists like them are not content with mere disbelief, or even with stating their disbelief. They are so threatened by the possibility of God, that they feel compelled to go out of their way to actually attack, with all possible alacrity, any mere mention of theology to satisfy some deep insatiable need.

Most psychologists would postulate that this stems from some deeply set insecurity with regards to religion. There are any number of reasons this could have happened. Overbearing religious parents who demand that their children pay homage to a God in which they do not believe, or even from some kind of abuse on the part of a priest, rabbi, or pastor.

Regardless of why they do it, it is important for us to recognize that it is a compulsion over which they have little or no control. You may as well tell a river to stop flowing. Only when the actual insecurity driving the compulsion is addressed can they actually become rational on the subject, and most people in such circumstance (once the insecurity is resolved) simply avoid the subject for the rest of their lives.

The basic truth we must recognize here, is that a whole lot of abuse has been perpetrated against people in the name of religion. You and I know that those who would abuse others in the name of religion do not hold the faith in truth, but with a lack of true knowledge merely parroting the words of those who have come before them. They create an appearance of religious asceticism, without any actual denial of the preeminence of the physical realm. Those who would abuse others in the name of God, are directly responsible for the majority of militant anti-theosophists in the world today.

It is important, then, to understand the compulsions driving this behavior and acknowledge (at least to ourselves) why it is that they attack us. By doing so, we come to the realization that no amount of reason or rationale will sway such people in the slightest. They are on a mission, and that mission is to derogate religion at all costs!

On the internet, they seem a lot more prevalent than they are in the rest of the world. I believe that this is because they are able to hide behind a keyboard to launch their attacks. People like this are as common as sand on Christian forums throughout the Internet, on usenet, on boards, blogs, everywhere. Reverse psychology does not work. Preventing their amusement does not work. The only thing that works, in my experience, it either ignoring them entirely, or allowing them to hang themselves on their own words to the point that they make themselves look foolish enough that they cut their losses and run.

The bottom line is, get used to them. They appear anywhere faith, and particularly Christianity, is discussed online. They are as prevalent as jungle-rot in Vietnam. The only way you will ever find a place to discuss Christianity online without their interference, is through the intercession of a heavy handed moderator. An apt analogy is, if you are a pet lover with lots of animals, then you will have to deal with fleas. There are measures you can take to reduce that annoyance, but you can never remove it completely.

I am not afraid of things that do not exist. I am afraid of people like you, and Macon, and Theocrat. I am afraid of those that rule people without the ability to think for themselves, and guide them, like a horde of zombies, against people not like them. I wish there were a god, I imagine the kind of rampant ignorance, destruction of lives, absolute intolerance, and hatred prevailing through humanity would not exist.

Dr.3D

03-15-2008, 03:55 PM

familydog

03-15-2008, 05:29 PM

Fox McCloud

03-15-2008, 10:03 PM

Don't worry, that day will come very soon. You see, there is a God and He is coming back and He is pissed.

Understatement of the year, Dr. 3D, understatement of the year....

I might add that I wholeheartedly agree.

GunnyFreedom

03-16-2008, 06:29 PM

I am not afraid of things that do not exist. I am afraid of people like you, and Macon, and Theocrat. I am afraid of those that rule people without the ability to think for themselves, and guide them, like a horde of zombies, against people not like them. I wish there were a god, I imagine the kind of rampant ignorance, destruction of lives, absolute intolerance, and hatred prevailing through humanity would not exist.

What delusion has possessed you to believe that I do not think for myself? Have I given any indication of being a shill for the CFR, Big Oil, or AIPAC? The very beauty of the Christian God is that He is personal, an individual path, and any indication of "gropupthink' is the first indication that something has gone off the map.

Were the 12 Apostles group-thinkers? heh, right. And they are our model.

Instead, we share a common Spirit, with whom we each commune in the most individual manner. When we see these agree with those in the world around us, the touch of the Spirit is confirmed. And so, Christians communicate on a level which you can not comprehend, lacking the Spirit from which it erupts.

And then, what you do not comprehend, you hold in contempt. Spit on it even. By all means brother, it's your right of free will! :)

sophocles07

03-16-2008, 07:10 PM

And so, Christians communicate on a level which you can not comprehend, lacking the Spirit from which it erupts.

Bleh...

raiha

03-16-2008, 08:23 PM

Bleh...

+1000

Kade

03-16-2008, 08:36 PM

What delusion has possessed you to believe that I do not think for myself? Have I given any indication of being a shill for the CFR, Big Oil, or AIPAC? The very beauty of the Christian God is that He is personal, an individual path, and any indication of "gropupthink' is the first indication that something has gone off the map.

Were the 12 Apostles group-thinkers? heh, right. And they are our model.

Instead, we share a common Spirit, with whom we each commune in the most individual manner. When we see these agree with those in the world around us, the touch of the Spirit is confirmed. And so, Christians communicate on a level which you can not comprehend, lacking the Spirit from which it erupts.

And then, what you do not comprehend, you hold in contempt. Spit on it even. By all means brother, it's your right of free will! :)

So, your entire point, the entirety of your rationale comes to the epic conclusion that because you converse with ghosts, that you somehow are an expert on these matters?

Kade

03-16-2008, 08:37 PM

Fear mongering is a powerful tactic my friend, and you have mastered it.

Ironic, just look at the post previous to yours.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 08:41 PM

So, your entire point, the entirety of your rationale comes to the epic conclusion that because you converse with ghosts, that you somehow are an expert on these matters?

Not ghosts, but one spirit.... and it is not converse with, but actually being guided by said spirit. The Holy Spirit is an attitude. It is the spirit of God.

Kade

03-16-2008, 08:53 PM

Not ghosts, but one spirit.... and it is not converse with, but actually being guided by said spirit. The Holy Spirit is an attitude. It is the spirit of God.

Alright, so you go beyond conversing and actually listen to the advice of this ghost?

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/070717/cgi/casper_l.jpg

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:01 PM

Alright, so you go beyond conversing and actually listen to the advice of this ghost?

http://img2.timeinc.net/ew/dynamic/imgs/070717/cgi/casper_l.jpg

Love your cartoons.... LOL

Actually, as I said before, and you didn't notice.... it is not a ghost but a spirit.
A spirit is an attitude.

You have an attitude.

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:07 PM

Love your cartoons.... LOL

Actually, as I said before, and you didn't notice.... it is not a ghost but a spirit.
A spirit is an attitude.

You have an attitude.

My attitude is that of righteous rational indignation.

Spirits, demons, ghosts, werewolves, pumpkin-headed men, fairies, gods, easter bunnies, santa, and other make believe legends and myths are not something we should be encouraging as an "attitude" one should publicly profess beyond a certain age.

Time for Change

03-16-2008, 09:07 PM

Uh...people...not to be a buzzkill, but isn't this the Ron Paul Forums?

Is this infighting providing any positive results for Ron Paul or
the message of freedom in the United States of America?

How about a collective agreement from both sides...
Agree to disagree, believe or not believe, worship the door knob or the image of Christianity, pray or meditate or just get high and imagine you are in the presence of God.

The argument is pretty much irrelevant...

One of our members asked a few legitimate questions

What do *you* think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?

Is the hijacking of the thread to make somebody admit defeat and that your ideology is supreme necessary?

Is there anything that we can do to be more productive in our effort to correct our wayward government?

The point is that we are FREE to choose what we believe by living in this country.
That freedom is being eroded and we are supposed to be working together to make sure that does NOT happen.

Right?

All that said...how about we agree to letting people believe whatever they wish without persecution and get back to work getting our government back on track.

just a thought...
.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:10 PM

My attitude is that of righteous rational indignation.

Spirits, demons, ghosts, werewolves, pumpkin-headed men, fairies, gods, easter bunnies, santa, and other make believe legends and myths are not something we should be encouraging as an "attitude" one should publicly profess beyond a certain age.

And I would fight to the death for your right to have that attitude and express it.

Whether it is a wholesome attitude is for you to determine, not me.

I judge no one, nor should you.

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:19 PM

Uh...people...not to be a buzzkill, but isn't this the Ron Paul Forums?

Is this infighting providing any positive results for Ron Paul or
the message of freedom in the United States of America?

How about a collective agreement from both sides...
Agree to disagree, believe or not believe, worship the door knob or the image of Christianity, pray or meditate or just get high and imagine you are in the presence of God.

The argument is pretty much irrelevant...

One of our members asked a few legitimate questions

Is the hijacking of the thread to make somebody admit defeat and that your ideology is supreme necessary?

Is there anything that we can do to be more productive in our effort to correct our wayward government?

The point is that we are FREE to choose what we believe by living in this country.
That freedom is being eroded and we are supposed to be working together to make sure that does NOT happen.

Right?

All that said...how about we agree to letting people believe whatever they wish without persecution and get back to work getting our government back on track.

just a thought...
.

But "Mark of the Beast?" Seriously...wtf does that do for anyone, it's frankly ape feces.

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:21 PM

And I would fight to the death for your right to have that attitude and express it.

Whether it is a wholesome attitude is for you to determine, not me.

I judge no one, nor should you.

Alright, alright... I like your attitude. I actually feel the same way... Sorry if I offended you, I just feel like I deal with the winners all day here... so hard to inject some reason...

I too would defend your right to believe whatever nonsense you want... seriously. I really do fear some of the members here, who believe in the kinds of things that make my spine crawl... mark of the beast, hellfire and brimstone, Christian Nation, Theocracy... yikes.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:21 PM

But "Mark of the Beast?" Seriously...wtf does that do for anyone, it's frankly ape feces.

Each of us is entitled to his own opinion.

GunnyFreedom

03-16-2008, 09:21 PM

But "Mark of the Beast?" Seriously...wtf does that do for anyone, it's frankly ape feces.

I suppose that question, will be for historians to decide. :)

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:22 PM

Alright, alright... I like your attitude. I actually feel the same way... Sorry if I offended you, I just feel like I deal with the winners all day here... so hard to inject some reason...

I too would defend your right to believe whatever nonsense you want... seriously. I really do fear some of the members here, who believe in the kinds of things that make my spine crawl... mark of the beast, hellfire and brimstone, Christian Nation, Theocracy... yikes.

May you live in peace. :)

Time for Change

03-16-2008, 09:26 PM

But "Mark of the Beast?" Seriously...wtf does that do for anyone, it's frankly ape feces.

If you dont believe...that's fine.
Does that justify bashing somebody else for believing it?

NO

That is religeous persecution.
Religeous persecution is illegal in our society; therefore, should be off limits.

familydog

03-16-2008, 09:27 PM

Ironic, just look at the post previous to yours.

Ironic, you who goes around the forum challening people to honest and intellectual debates, deflects the accusation. There is enough fear mongering to go around, it does not just stop at you.

There is a term for people like you. Fire and brimstone athiests. An athiest who goes beyond explaining his beliefs, but one who preaches the end of the world if someone religious gets into position of power. It's not an attack on atheism, but an attack on what you spout. I don't need to point out Christian fear mongering, you do it well enough.

Watch out Kade, don't get too cllose. You might catch my Jesus cooties!

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:34 PM

I suppose that question, will be for historians to decide. :)

Because 2,000 years isn't enough.

Mark 13:30 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:36 PM

Please people, let's not go around trying to promote arguments.

Always promote peace. :)

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:38 PM

Ironic, you who goes around the forum challening people to honest and intellectual debates, deflects the accusation. There is enough fear mongering to go around, it does not just stop at you.

There is a term for people like you. Fire and brimstone athiests. An athiest who goes beyond explaining his beliefs, but one who preaches the end of the world if someone religious gets into position of power. It's not an attack on atheism, but an attack on what you spout. I don't need to point out Christian fear mongering, you do it well enough.

Watch out Kade, don't get too cllose. You might catch my Jesus cooties!

You are a purveyor of lies and you aware of that... You know what you say is lie, what trust can anyone put on you who claim a faith against such a thing?

You don't know what I believe...nor do you care. Hellfire, eternal damnation, Christian nationhood... these things are fear mongering, but not from my side... people on these boards use them... openly.

I respond openly to what I am against.

I am not against Christianity, or Christians, I don't care what you people believe. I care what laws you want to make, I care what you want to have taught to my kids, I care what you threaten my way of life with...

If I have to reason with you to see that other views exist, and that maybe yours isn't 100% correct, than your mind might be changed, and you might not be one of the people who would never vote for an atheist, never use the word atheist as an insult to someone, or show the kind of rampant intolerance demonstrated by so many here.

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:38 PM

If you dont believe...that's fine.
Does that justify bashing somebody else for believing it?

NO

That is religeous persecution.
Religeous persecution is illegal in our society; therefore, should be off limits.

You have no idea what religious persecution is... how fucking dare you.

There is real persecution in this country, from all groups of people. It is bred of intolerance and hate and misunderstanding. That you question my right to speak my mind and equate with such brutality is ostensibly offensive.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:46 PM

Because 2,000 years isn't enough.

Mark 13:30 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

How do you know the generation He was talking about is not this one?
He was talking about the end times.
------------
Mark 13:28-31 28 " Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 "So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near -- at the doors! 30 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
-------------
Notice the context, I have bolded the words showing what generation He was talking about. :)

Kade

03-16-2008, 09:50 PM

How do you know the generation He was talking about is not this one?
He was talking about the end times.
------------
Mark 13:28-31 28 " Now learn this parable from the fig tree: When its branch has already become tender, and puts forth leaves, you know that summer is near. 29 "So you also, when you see these things happening, know that it is near -- at the doors! 30 "Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place. 31 "Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will by no means pass away.
-------------
Notice the context, I have bolded the words showing what generation He was talking about. :)

Because he was talking to his disciples specifically. Because it's ambiguous. And mostly because it's no different than Nostradamus and the vagueness associated with claims that could extend to any period of time...

Again, this was 2,000 years ago... that is hundreds of generations ago.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:54 PM

Because he was talking to his disciples specifically. Because it's ambiguous. And mostly because it's no different than Nostradamus and the vagueness associated with claims that could extend to any period of time...

Again, this was 2,000 years ago... that is hundreds of generations ago.

True!
But unlike Nostradamus who wrote not quite so many years ago, all of the prophecy written in the Bible so many more years ago, to date have come true.

I know some would argue this point and I honor their argument.
I just stated why I contend it to be the truth.

sophocles07

03-16-2008, 09:57 PM

That is religeous persecution.
Religeous persecution is illegal in our society; therefore, should be off limits.

Go send Bill O'Reilly an email or call into Sean Hannity's radio show you cry
baby

sophocles07

03-16-2008, 09:58 PM

But unlike Nostradamus who wrote not quite so many years ago, all of the prophecy written in the Bible so many more years ago, to date have come true.

I don't understand this sentence. What prophecy has come true specifically? I don't want quotes about white horses or vague lands of evil or blah blah blah as an answer.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 09:59 PM

Why all the stone throwing? :)
I see no need for it in a discussion.

Kade

03-16-2008, 10:03 PM

True!
But unlike Nostradamus who wrote not quite so many years ago, all of the prophecy written in the Bible so many more years ago, to date have come true.

I know some would argue this point and I honor their argument.
I just stated why I contend it to be the truth.

I don't want to get into this... this is just patently false...

Most of the so called prophecies were written after the fact... anything afterward is just plain insane. Nothing specific is mentioned or proven true... nothing after the time it was written.

How many times does the bible say that "The day of the LORD is at hand." or "The great day of the LORD is near."

Or this: "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

Yea. That didn't work.

Or how about Tyre? Wasn't that prophesied to be destroyed?

Or this: 0:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This: 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Or this epic piece: 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

That didn't happen.

familydog

03-16-2008, 10:04 PM

You are a purveyor of lies and you aware of that... You know what you say is lie, what trust can anyone put on you who claim a faith against such a thing?

You don't know what I believe...nor do you care. Hellfire, eternal damnation, Christian nationhood... these things are fear mongering, but not from my side... people on these boards use them... openly.

I respond openly to what I am against.

I am not against Christianity, or Christians, I don't care what you people believe. I care what laws you want to make, I care what you want to have taught to my kids, I care what you threaten my way of life with...

If I have to reason with you to see that other views exist, and that maybe yours isn't 100% correct, than your mind might be changed, and you might not be one of the people who would never vote for an atheist, never use the word atheist as an insult to someone, or show the kind of rampant intolerance demonstrated by so many here.

What lies have I told? Be specific.

I do know what you believe, you say it all the time in your posts. You are saying your opinion, thus, I know what you believe.

I think that is awsome you talk openly about what you believe and I wasn't attacking that. I was simply pointing out that the way you present your beleifs make you seem like you have religious phobia, and by statements you make like the one I pointed out when I said you were fear mongering, makes your arguments have about as much credibility as the ones you attack as fear mongering.

How was me pointing out our Christian nationhood fear mongering? I used research to back up my claims. You never refuted them or even responded. If you think I am wrong, please respond with your own research to refute mine so we can have an open, honest, and intellectual debate. Instead you ignore it and call it fear mongering.

You go around accusing other people of being collectivist, but you say "you people." Funny. You also lump me in with a group of people who can't think for themselves just because I am religious, yet you have no evidence that I can't think for myself. In fact, should I link you the debate we had about atheism being a religion, and religion being taught in school? I am a devout Catholic, yet I didn't fit into your stereotype. Sorry to burst your bubble. "If I have to reason with you..." Your arrogance is astounding.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 10:22 PM

I don't understand this sentence. What prophecy has come true specifically? I don't want quotes about white horses or vague lands of evil or blah blah blah as an answer.

Well, there are so many, I don't really know where to start.
I'll select one.

Daniel 9:24-27 (Prophecy of the birth of Jesus, the Messiah.)

Notice the 70 weeks, they are actually weeks of years.
If you study the Jubilee Calendar, you will notice how every seven years, is considered a week.

The decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given in 457BC.
Here is the Decree as written in the book of Ezra.

Ezra 7:1 - 8:36 (Decree is given to restore and rebuild.)

Now if you count 70 times 7, you get the year of the end of the 70th week, that week starts 27CE when Jesus was baptized. In the middle of that week (7 year period), Jesus died on the cross 30CE, the end of the 70th week is in the year 33CE. The very next year, begins the Christian Trusteeship of the Gospel, in 34CE.

It takes some study, but when you look at the books and understand what is being said it all comes together.

Dr.3D

03-16-2008, 10:26 PM

I don't want to get into this... this is just patently false...

Most of the so called prophecies were written after the fact... anything afterward is just plain insane. Nothing specific is mentioned or proven true... nothing after the time it was written.

How many times does the bible say that "The day of the LORD is at hand." or "The great day of the LORD is near."

Or this: "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:"

Yea. That didn't work.

Or how about Tyre? Wasn't that prophesied to be destroyed?

Or this: 0:11 Now all these things happened unto them for ensamples: and they are written for our admonition, upon whom the ends of the world are come.

This: 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

Or this epic piece: 1:7 "Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen."

That didn't happen.

That is why I said to date. Not all of them have happened yet.

Time for Change

03-17-2008, 05:07 AM

You have no idea what religious persecution is... how fucking dare you.

There is real persecution in this country, from all groups of people. It is bred of intolerance and hate and misunderstanding. That you question my right to speak my mind and equate with such brutality is ostensibly offensive.

I cannot determine your intent or what you are trying to accomplish here.
Have I personally attacked you or your belief system? NO.
Have I attempted to discredit your belief system? NO.
Have I said you need to convert to anyone else's belief system? NO.

Has your belief system caused you to financially suffer?
Has your belief system caused you to suffer physical harm?
Has anyone else’s?

May I request that you provide some examples of the "intolerance and hate and misunderstanding" you reference, and how it has affected you?

Please enlighten us all. ..
"intolerance and hate and misunderstanding" of what exactly?
What is your definition of religious persecution?
Provide examples where applicable.
(please refrain from using vague profanity when you can, instead provide substantial and un-questionable evidence.)

You have every right to speak your mind, nobody is questioning that, but not at the expense of discrediting somebody else's entire way of life.

Will you be satisfied if we all act collectively and say “You know what...You are correct.”

There is no reason to believe in anything that has not been personally experienced.
There is no proof of an afterlife; therefore, it must not exist.
There is nothing to look forward to beyond our little existence.
There is no justification for living by the rules outlined in the bible since there is no proof that outline of moral standards can reap any tangible rewards today.
There is no reward for living a life as outlined in an ancient book
There is no proof that anyone actually experienced what is written in the bible, or any other book for that matter.
There is no reason to think individually and attempt to interpret and relate current events to our belief system.

Sarcasm aside…like it or not…
I believe that the entire religious system was created to provide a basic outline for civilization and the way people interact / behave.
The premise: there are eternal rewards for living a life of kindness, compassion and relative humility toward other people.
There is punishment for lying, cheating, stealing, killing and screwing everything that walks.
It is a means of providing order, if you will.

Is that so wrong or such a terrible notion?
Does the concept of individuals having a basic moral outline for themselves (that directly conflicts with your own) offend you?
What gives you the right to say THEY are wrong, and proceed to personally attack and discredit them?

Macon, GA

03-17-2008, 05:23 AM

O.k. I can't stand it.

Kade, please don't try to exposit the Bible..... I am afraid your contempt for all things Christian may cloud your judgment....(to say the least).

Mark 13:30 "I tell you the truth, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened."

Jesus was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Again.... It was not the "end times" as so many Dispensationalists believe. That idea has only been around for 150 years or so. Does it make Christians look foolish????..... yes.

Jesus came in judgment. That GENERATION (not race) was still alive. Those who believed Christ fled to the mountains and escaped the Romans. The Temple was utterly destroyed (as had been prophesied). Titus even had the foundation dug up.
The events in Matthew 24 have ALREADY happened..... They proved that CHRIST was KING and seated at the right hand of God. Christ is reigning as KING now, setting all of his enemies up under his feet.

Look up Postmillenialism, PLEASE.

boomcreek

03-17-2008, 05:56 AM

O.k. I can't stand it.

Kade, please don't try to exposit the Bible..... I am afraid your contempt for all things Christian may cloud your judgment....(to say the least).

Jesus was speaking of the destruction of Jerusalem in 70 A.D. Again.... It was not the "end times" as so many Dispensationalists believe. That idea has only been around for 150 years or so. Does it make Christians look foolish????..... yes.

Jesus came in judgment. That GENERATION (not race) was still alive. Those who believed Christ fled to the mountains and escaped the Romans. The Temple was utterly destroyed (as had been prophesied). Titus even had the foundation dug up.
The events in Matthew 24 have ALREADY happened..... They proved that CHRIST was KING and seated at the right hand of God. Christ is reigning as KING now, setting all of his enemies up under his feet.

Look up Postmillenialism, PLEASE.

Very Good! I was going to say that it is "a matter of faith"...perhaps the dividing factor between those who "have ears to hear" and those who don't.

Dr.3D

03-17-2008, 07:19 AM

How sad it is.....

sophocles07

03-17-2008, 07:32 AM

Well, there are so many, I don't really know where to start.
I'll select one.

Daniel 9:24-27 (Prophecy of the birth of Jesus, the Messiah.)

Notice the 70 weeks, they are actually weeks of years.
If you study the Jubilee Calendar, you will notice how every seven years, is considered a week.

The decree to restore and rebuild Jerusalem was given in 457BC.
Here is the Decree as written in the book of Ezra.

Ezra 7:1 - 8:36 (Decree is given to restore and rebuild.)

Now if you count 70 times 7, you get the year of the end of the 70th week, that week starts 27CE when Jesus was baptized. In the middle of that week (7 year period), Jesus died on the cross 30CE, the end of the 70th week is in the year 33CE. The very next year, begins the Christian Trusteeship of the Gospel, in 34CE.

It takes some study, but when you look at the books and understand what is being said it all comes together.

Alllllright..."nevermind"

*walks slowly away*

Dr.3D

03-17-2008, 07:46 AM

Alllllright..."nevermind"

*walks slowly away*

Yep, even the so called Christians can't even agree. I can see why there is so much confusion.

dawnbt

03-17-2008, 07:59 AM

If we read Daniel 12:11 correctly, then do we think of a day as being a year?

If so, then in the year 70 CE, the temple was destroyed and the sacrificing was ended. If we then add 1290 years to that, we come up with the year 1360.

What happened in the year 1360?

Or are we talking about the years between 538-1798?

The Daniel verse is an end time prophecy. One thousand two hundred and ninety days is about 3 1/2 years.

Dr.3D

03-17-2008, 08:11 AM

The Daniel verse is an end time prophecy. One thousand two hundred and ninety days is about 3 1/2 years.

OK... we have a lot of interpretations. Postmillenialism, Premillenialsim, Pre-tribulation rapture, Post-tribulation rapture, Mid-tribulation rapture, you name it.

I can see why there are so many atheists. You can't even get a straight answer from those who claim to be the 'Christians'.

dawnbt

03-17-2008, 08:21 AM

This is taken from: http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/02-22-05.asp

In John 11:1, John is told to measure the temple. Since the temple was destroyed in A.D. 70, this must be the temple before it was destroyed. This means that Revelation was written prior to the destruction of the temple in A.D. 70. The burden of proof is on those who claim this is a reference to a rebuilt temple. There is not a single verse in the NT that says anything about a rebuilt temple. Yes, the OT does refer to a rebuilt temple. That temple was rebuilt (see Ezra and Nehemiah). The temple that Jesus said would be destroyed— “not one stone left upon another” (24:2)—was a rebuilt temple. In order for there to be another rebuilt temple, the NT would have to say something about it. It doesn’t.

Not true. The old testiment also prophesises end times. However, many believe that the temple will be built next to the Dome of the Rock as it states in Revelations 11:1-2. Others believe that the Dome of the Rock will be demolished and the temple put it in its place. There are many versions depending on religious sect. This is where the Antichrist is to sit and state that he is the Messiah.

Time for Change

03-17-2008, 08:31 AM

This is where the Antichrist is to sit and state that he is the Messiah.

I wonder if the MSM will report THAT...lol :D

dawnbt

03-17-2008, 08:34 AM

As for the original question...I believe the Real ID is a precursor for the RFID chip.

dawnbt

03-17-2008, 08:36 AM

I wonder if the MSM will report THAT...lol :DLOL! Of course they will. They will be shouting, "The Messiah has come! The Messiah has come! Believe! Believe! Believe!"

Macon, GA

03-17-2008, 09:04 AM

Dawnbt:

This is where the Antichrist is to sit and state that he is the Messiah.

Wrong. There are only four places in Scripture where one can find the word antichrist/antichrists. Three are in I John, and one in II John.

John concludes that there is not one antichrist but many. Please, look it up.

The eschatology that most modern churches teach today, make for good fiction, and Tim LaHaye has certainly made millions from it, but TERRIBLE theology. No single AntiChrist.... who recovers from a mortal wound and then pronounces himself ruler. No mark of the beast, the number 666 tattooed on our foreheads or installed as a microchip under our skin. No armageddon, and dare I say it:

NO RAPTURE. (can't find that one in the Scriptures either)

This heretical teaching has done more to cripple the church than any atheist/agnostic agenda could ever do.

You have millions of Christians sitting around in their "prayer closets" strumming their guitars singing Kum Ba Yah, all while waiting on Jesus to "rapture" them out of this evil world. No need to get involved in politics or anything else... after all, why should we polish the brass on a sinking ship.

What in the world do you think the Lord meant when he taught the disciples to pray saying:

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN."

Dr.3D

03-17-2008, 09:10 AM

Macon, GA

03-17-2008, 09:54 AM

Dr. 3D,

Through one man sin entered the world. Sin brought with it death and misery. Through one who was fully man and fully God, salvation entered the world. He is reigning now, while seated at God's right hand. All authority under heaven and earth has been given to Him.

As I type this, He is placing all of his enemies up under His precious feet in His own timing.

dawnbt

03-17-2008, 10:27 AM

Dawnbt:

Wrong. There are only four places in Scripture where one can find the word antichrist/antichrists. Three are in I John, and one in II John.

John concludes that there is not one antichrist but many. Please, look it up.

The eschatology that most modern churches teach today, make for good fiction, and Tim LaHaye has certainly made millions from it, but TERRIBLE theology. No single AntiChrist.... who recovers from a mortal wound and then pronounces himself ruler. No mark of the beast, the number 666 tattooed on our foreheads or installed as a microchip under our skin. No armageddon, and dare I say it:

NO RAPTURE. (can't find that one in the Scriptures either)

This heretical teaching has done more to cripple the church than any atheist/agnostic agenda could ever do.

You have millions of Christians sitting around in their "prayer closets" strumming their guitars singing Kum Ba Yah, all while waiting on Jesus to "rapture" them out of this evil world. No need to get involved in politics or anything else... after all, why should we polish the brass on a sinking ship.

What in the world do you think the Lord meant when he taught the disciples to pray saying:

"Thy kingdom come, thy will be done, ON EARTH AS IT IS IN HEAVEN."

How can you say you have read the scriptures and then say that there will be no rapture, no mark of the beast and no armageddon?
As far as the rapture according to the Websters dictionary, Rapture means: "he final assumption of Christians into heaven during the end-time according to Christian theology". The bible may not say the word rapture, however the meaning is implied in many scriptures such as 1 C 15:52; 2 Co 12:2-4; 1 THh 4:17; and Rev 4:1.

Mark of the beast~ Rev. 13:16-18

Armageddon~ Rev 16:16

As far as the Antichrist 2 Th 2:3-12 may not say antichrist, but that is who he is talking about. I'm not sure why it matters if there are 4 scriptures pertaining to the anitchrist or 100, he's still in there.

Theocrat

03-17-2008, 10:58 AM

Kade

03-17-2008, 11:25 AM

May I request that you provide some examples of the "intolerance and hate and misunderstanding" you reference, and how it has affected you?

As you wish.

Christian theocracy is bigger than just one nation; it seeks to take dominion over the whole world! It will, too, someday, though not in my lifetime. That's why we Christians are having so many kids compared to the liberals, humanists, agnostics, etc. because our posterity will carry Christian theocracy on to infinity. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, either, my friend. It came to fruition when the Puritans first arrived here in the 1600s, and it will continue to mature until all things are under Christ's feet. The end of tyranny from relativistic, secular "atheism" will come to pass. I will fight diligently to see "atheism" bleed to death, choking in its own blood, and I will stomp it right in its head until its blood is splattered all over my "garments". That's the war against terror that I fight in. So, just know that the next time you see one of my posts that my fight is against every thought and philosophy which is against those ends, but not the people who espouse those thoughts and philosophies. I'd just thought you should know.

Kade

03-17-2008, 11:40 AM

Is that so wrong or such a terrible notion?
Does the concept of individuals having a basic moral outline for themselves (that directly conflicts with your own) offend you?
What gives you the right to say THEY are wrong, and proceed to personally attack and discredit them?

My rare but exemplary personal attacks are always warranted. As far as I take it, I debate on the grounds of reason. Should I outline the history of Western morality for you?

It affects me because the dogma is going to be end the of humanity. Can you imagine a dark ages with nuclear and biological capabilities of modern times? We are going to kill ourselves off.. A moral code that prevents this is excellent, but instead, we are a country of people actively trying to usher the "end times".

it affects me because I mostly argue points, and in return, I get statements of the bloodletting that I deserve. This isn't comparable, and your attempt to make it so is laughable.

The fact that my points are valid and caustic is none of my concern, nor is it if it offends people who use their pulpits normally to decry eternal torment and pain for everyone not like them... why is that comparable? People believe in an ETERNAL torment... seriously, wtf is that?

Surely a minor offense towards the insanity of these kinds of dogmatic rants is not nearly as bad as the latter.

Religion has stood on a mighty throne of intolerance towards non-adherents. It has been socially unacceptable to attack these ideas.

I have no compelling reason to ever silently mope in the corner while people rant and scream unbelievable levels of intolerance and hatred in the name of a so called loving GOD.

I've had enough, and more and more of us have had the same. This isn't my parents or my grandparents religion anymore. This isn't a nice day on Sunday. This is tape over the mouth, Bush-praying, Cross carrying, tongue-speaking, mega-church, young earth creationism, anti-homosexual, literalistic, anti-atheist, anti-Muslim, anti-science, anti-humanism, and anti each other insanity.

A quarter of young adults now are non-believers, and we are on the rise. How long do you think this reign of terror is going to go on?

There is nothing you can say, save perhaps that your own personal church is nothing like this... I've lived all over this country, and I've been in almost every denomination, and I've heard it all...

Hatred. Not love.

Absolute, putrid hatred of mankind.

But no, please, continue with your line of thought.

Theocrat

03-17-2008, 11:40 AM

As you wish.

Quote:
Christian theocracy is bigger than just one nation; it seeks to take dominion over the whole world! It will, too, someday, though not in my lifetime. That's why we Christians are having so many kids compared to the liberals, humanists, agnostics, etc. because our posterity will carry Christian theocracy on to infinity. There's nothing that can be done to stop it, either, my friend. It came to fruition when the Puritans first arrived here in the 1600s, and it will continue to mature until all things are under Christ's feet. The end of tyranny from relativistic, secular "atheism" will come to pass. I will fight diligently to see "atheism" bleed to death, choking in its own blood, and I will stomp it right in its head until its blood is splattered all over my "garments". That's the war against terror that I fight in. So, just know that the next time you see one of my posts that my fight is against every thought and philosophy which is against those ends, but not the people who espouse those thoughts and philosophies. I'd just thought you should know.

And how has this affected you, Kade? :D

Kade

03-17-2008, 11:43 AM

And how has this affected you, Kade? :D

It's been this way most my life, since I left the faith. I'm mostly immune to it... it hurts a bit inside, but I don't believe all Christians are like this, or believe this inside... I worry about people like me, who have to hide themselves from their families, hundreds if not thousands of people I know now, who sit in church, who preach now, who are even heads of churches, who would never dare utter that they simply don't believe.

As you claim, we have nothing to offer. By your Calvinistic beliefs, we were destined to never hear the word of god and to suffer absolute torment for all eternity for it...

You are a sick cat Theocrat, and most of this board agree with you. If humanity survives the coming darkness, it won't be you who was remembered as fighting it.

Theocrat

03-17-2008, 12:03 PM

As you claim, we have nothing to offer. By your Calvinistic beliefs, we were destined to never hear the word of god and to suffer absolute torment for all eternity for it...

You are a sick cat Theocrat, and most of this board agree with you. If humanity survives the coming darkness, it won't be you who was remembered as fighting it.

First of all, I never said you were destined to never hear the word of God and to suffer absolute torment for all eternity for it. Second of all and more importantly, one of my main goals and true joys of being on these forums is to share the word of God with as many people as possible, due to a love for their souls and in sincere hope they don't suffer absolute torment in eternity for their sins. You obviously are lying, plus you're ignorant about my Calvinistic beliefs, my friend, by your over simplicity of what you've just stated. That's a subject for a whole different thread, though.

You know what I think is sick, Kade? The notion that humans evolved from slime which came from nowhere; the belief that sinful man is somehow autonomous and can decide what's right for himself; the understanding that humans are nothing more than just biological bags of random mutations, subject to chemistry and physics; the presumption that there is no absolute truth and everything is relative; the prideful, ignorant, arrogant attitude that there is no God; the hypocrisy of nonbelievers in their arbitrary standards of morality, all of which pretty much sum up what the superstition of secular humanism teaches. That makes me sick, and its stench poisons my nostrils. That sort of belief will destroy mankind if it is not stopped.

Now, back to the regular subject of this forum thread, "Why So Few Christians Joining the Fight Against the Mark?" Thank you.

Kade

03-17-2008, 12:34 PM

First of all, I never said you were destined to never hear the word of God and to suffer absolute torment for all eternity for it. Second of all and more importantly, one of my main goals and true joys of being on these forums is to share the word of God with as many people as possible, due to a love for their souls and in sincere hope they don't suffer absolute torment in eternity for their sins. You obviously are lying, plus you're ignorant about my Calvinistic beliefs, my friend, by your over simplicity of what you've just stated. That's a subject for a whole different thread, though.

You know what I think is sick, Kade? The notion that humans evolved from slime which came from nowhere; the belief that sinful man is somehow autonomous and can decide what's right for himself; the understanding that humans are nothing more than just biological bags of random mutations, subject to chemistry and physics; the presumption that there is no absolute truth and everything is relative; the prideful, ignorant, arrogant attitude that there is no God; the hypocrisy of nonbelievers in their arbitrary standards of morality, all of which pretty much sum up what the superstition of secular humanism teaches. That makes me sick, and its stench poisons my nostrils. That sort of belief will destroy mankind if it is not stopped.

Now, back to the regular subject of this forum thread, "Why So Few Christians Joining the Fight Against the Mark?" Thank you.

Evolution:
http://www.scienceclarified.com/images/uesc_06_img0297.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Zinj3.jpg

Creationism:
http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/188/mud-bath_16814.jpg

That's offensive to you?

Theocrat

03-17-2008, 12:50 PM

Evolution:
http://www.scienceclarified.com/images/uesc_06_img0297.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2a/Zinj3.jpg

Creationism:
http://www.hickerphoto.com/data/media/188/mud-bath_16814.jpg

That's offensive to you?

This has nothing to do with "the Mark of the Beast" nor any eschatological discussions of "the Mark." If you want to discuss/debate creationism vs. evolution with me, just send me a private message or start a new thread. Otherwise, I will not respond to you on this thread about that subject. Thanks.

LEK

03-17-2008, 12:51 PM

Kade

03-17-2008, 12:53 PM

This has nothing to do with "the Mark of the Beast" nor any eschatological discussions of "the Mark." If you want to discuss/debate creationism vs. evolution with me, just send me a private message or start a new thread. Otherwise, I will not respond to you on this thread about that subject. Thanks.

You brought it up.

The mark of the beast is made up, like the other fairytales in the bible.

The Real ID is a serious threat. Not because it is a demon creature mark, but rather because it is a threat to liberty.

Theocrat

03-17-2008, 01:02 PM

The Real ID is a serious threat. Not because it is a demon creature mark, but rather because it is a threat to liberty.

Agreed.

Macon, GA

03-17-2008, 01:54 PM

The Real ID is a serious threat. Not because it is a demon creature mark, but rather because it is a threat to liberty.

Kade,

Did you ever think you would see the day when you agreed with Theocrat and me?

PLEASE, let me be the first to shout it at:

I AGREE WITH KADE'S ABOVE QUOTE!!!!:D

Howdy Theocrat....

I wondered if/when you would show up!

Macon, GA

03-17-2008, 02:03 PM

2 Thessalonians 2:3-4

"Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition, who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God."

* 1 John 2:18--"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour."
* 1 John 2:22--"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son."
* 1 John 4:3--"every spirit that does not confess Jesus is from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
* 2 John 7--"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

1. An antichrist is anyone who does not acknowledge that Jesus has come in the flesh (2 Jn. 1:7). The Jews rejected Jesus as "the Christ" (1 Jn. 2:22) and being God in human flesh (2 Jn. 7). The term is directed to Jews of the first-century who John later describes as a "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9).
2. There is more than one antichrist: "even now many antichrists have arisen" (1 Jn. 2:18).
3. The appearance of antichrists in John's day was evidence "that it is the last hour" (1 Jn. 2:18). This means that a distant end-time political antichrist figure is not a part of John's definition.
4. Therefore, no contemporary figure can be John's antichrist.

Kade

03-17-2008, 02:16 PM

* 1 John 2:18--"Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have arisen; from this we know that it is the last hour."
* 1 John 2:22--"Who is the liar but the one who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, the one who denies the Father and the Son."
* 1 John 4:3--"every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God; and this is the spirit of the antichrist, of which you have heard that it is coming, and now it is already in the world."
* 2 John 7--"For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the antichrist."

1. An antichrist is anyone who does not acknowledge that Jesus has come in the flesh (2 Jn. 1:7). The Jews rejected Jesus as "the Christ" (1 Jn. 2:22) and being God in human flesh (2 Jn. 7). The term is directed to Jews of the first-century who John later describes as a "synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9).
2. There is more than one antichrist: "even now many antichrists have arisen" (1 Jn. 2:18).
3. The appearance of antichrists in John's day was evidence "that it is the last hour" (1 Jn. 2:18). This means that a distant end-time political antichrist figure is not a part of John's definition.
4. Therefore, no contemporary figure can be John's antichrist.

Wait, are you calling me the Antichrist?

Macon, GA

03-17-2008, 07:32 PM

Nah....not THE antichrist as many Dispensationalists believe.

You are just one of many "antichrists."

Time for Change

03-17-2008, 08:56 PM

delete this post

Kade

03-18-2008, 08:17 AM

Nah....not THE antichrist as many Dispensationalists believe.

You are just one of many "antichrists."

and honestly, after calling me this, and believing this, and spouting this, I'm suppose to stay quiet and not "offend" you with what I think of this batshit?

Give me a break. Seriously, and Macon, you were relatively calm into you ran into familydog and Theocrat.

Now that they banned another Atheist off the forums, there are only so many allies I have here...

pcosmar

03-18-2008, 10:16 AM

Nah....not THE antichrist as many Dispensationalists believe.

You are just one of many "antichrists."

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
An·ti·christ /ˈæntɪˌkraɪst/
–noun Theology.
1. a particular personage or power, variously identified or explained, who is conceived of as appearing in the world as the principal antagonist of Christ.
2. (sometimes lowercase) an opponent of Christ; a person or power antagonistic to Christ.
3. (often lowercase) a disbeliever in Christ.
4. (often lowercase) a false Christ.
[Origin: bef. 1150; ME, OE < LL Antichrīstus < LGk Antíchrīstos the Antichrist. See anti-, Christ]
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

By the definition,
You would fall into the #2 and #3 definition.

The poster is correct.

jmdrake

03-18-2008, 03:07 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MrVup9Dl4U

For over twenty years, "Patriot Pastor" Garrett Lear has strode the halls of New Hampshire's legislature...serving as a voice for his faith and his Revolutionary War ancestors. Today he talks with us about Real ID, the liberty deficit among Christians and his colorful outfit. Pastor Lear's church is in Wakefield, New Hampshire.

What do *you* think? Is Real ID the Mark of the Beast? A precursor to it? A bad thing? A good thing?

Because George W. Bush supports RealID. It's that simple. If Clinton was rolling this out conservative Christians would be up in arms. Don't believe me? Just look at "No Child Left Behind". Clinton tried a much more modest "Goals 2000" and Christians acted like it was the end of the world.

And for the God haters out there, forget for a moment whether or not YOU believe in the supernatural. The NWO is made up of believers, only they think Lucifer is the GOOD guy. They are bound and determined to implement the "mark of the beast" as an homage to their false god.

Regards,

John M. Drake

Macon, GA

03-18-2008, 05:21 PM

and honestly, after calling me this, and believing this, and spouting this, I'm suppose to stay quiet and not "offend" you with what I think of this

Kade,

I can't believe you have a problem with me calling you an antichrist. You are anti-christian. Are you offended because I called you that? Why? It is true. Read the definition provided by pcosmar.

For the record, I am still "pretty calm." Just calling it like I see it.

maeqFREEDOMfree

03-18-2008, 07:30 PM

Don't be alarmed if believers are still here when there is the required acceptance of the 'mark'. In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture.

that's a big can of worms :-)

maeqFREEDOMfree

03-18-2008, 07:33 PM

...Now that they banned another Atheist off the forums, there are only so many allies I have here...

allies against what? theists? i didn't know we were fighting

Kade

03-19-2008, 08:17 AM

allies against what? theists? i didn't know we were fighting

Allies in the sense that I have a few people take my side on a simple issue...

thuja

03-19-2008, 08:30 AM

everyone must fight this, religious or not. see my post about invisible RFID ink and RFID dust in the robot dog thread. maybe people will be wearing invisible RFID.
also go to www.spychips.com
alzheimers patients microchipped in florida last year.

Kade

03-19-2008, 08:31 AM

Kade,

I can't believe you have a problem with me calling you an antichrist. You are anti-christian. Are you offended because I called you that? Why? It is true. Read the definition provided by pcosmar.

For the record, I am still "pretty calm." Just calling it like I see it.

I don't like being labeled anti-christian at all. I'm not really against people... I was a believer for many years of my life... and I am a cultural Christian. How many times do I have to say this? I just don't believe in gods and demons and supernatural things. I'm not sorry if you think that makes me a bad person. When I feel that you use your beliefs to make a point about an issue, it does affect me, because I believe most dialogs can leave religious language out of it, in cases like this, I'm not going to encourage people to espouse "end times" prophecies, even if for the time being, I happen to agree on the issue...as is the case with REAL ID.

It's always convenient to apply hell and damnation to people who don't agree with you, than it is to confront them... labeling me an little antichrist is offensive because it allows you to summarily dismiss without thinking much about these things.

maeqFREEDOMfree

03-19-2008, 08:42 AM

Allies in the sense that I have a few people take my side on a simple issue...

maybe that's part of the issue. to many people, atheists and theists alike, it's not a simple issue. to many of us it's a fundamental building block for decisions we make.

people (especially on forums) will look for an opportunity to argue with other people for all kinds of reasons... it's how they get their jollies.

don't worry about it :-)

Dr.3D

03-19-2008, 08:56 AM

Kade

03-19-2008, 09:01 AM

This thread was about "Why so few Christians joining fight against The Mark?"

I don't know why it had to be high-jacked by so many people who don't know the answer to the question posed in the subject line.

Wouldn't it be just a simple thing to say you don't believe in theological study and be done with it? Why does one feel the need to keep flogging a dead horse?

All right, we all know you don't believe in God. Fine.... now what is the point of pushing this 'unbelief' to the point of absurdity?

A great way to make it less about my concern here, and deviant from the simple fact that these boards are crawling with this nonsense.

"Why are so few Christians joining the fight against The Mark?"

Because they have brains, and they don't believe in "The Mark".

I answered it.

Dr.3D

03-19-2008, 09:06 AM

A great way to make it less about my concern here, and deviant from the simple fact that these boards are crawling with this nonsense.

"Why are so few Christians joining the fight against The Mark?"

Because they have brains, and they don't believe in "The Mark".

I answered it.

Now that we have your opinion, we can hear from the others what their opinion is.

Kade

03-19-2008, 09:08 AM

Now that we have your opinion, we can hear from the others what their opinion is.

Well, when you say it that way. :o

Stallion

03-19-2008, 11:47 AM

Clearly, because someone claims to be a Christian it does not mean by default that they aren't prone to hypocrisy, succuming to ignorance, or are just flat-out stupid. I'm a Christian, so to speak, and with all the shit we have going on today, I see it as a huge red flag alert. I don't know why so many Christians are so gullible and blind. I think the Bible is right when it talks about the masses being deceived. And I do believe we are headed towards some dark times.

Your point about praying for peace yet voting for war is an extremely valid one. Ron Paul, as a Christian himself, preaches this concept and lives it. He's the truth here. He's the real deal. Why can't Christians see that?

It's fear... and a lack of faith on their part, I believe

They fear those "terrorists" and they think Monarch Bush, appointed by God Himself, will save America from those evil Muslims.

The world is totally fucked

I was raised in a Christian home my entire life. My grandfather was a church-planting missionary. My parents made sure I was in church (Baptist) every Sunday and usually on Wednesday nights as well. I accepted Christ (for those of you not familiar with Christianity, this means to accept that Christ was the Son of God, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross to pay the price for your sins) at the age of 5 and at the age of 10, I really started growing my relationship with Christ. I still attend a Baptist church. The problem with many Christians today, and trust me because I used to fall into this category, is that they are no different than any of the other "sheep" in this country or throughout the world. Christians in the last several decades have not been immune from the dumbing down that goes on in our public school system or the brainwashing of the MSM. Alot of Christians recognize that many current events fall into line with end time prophecies found in the Bible, but its as if they are hoping that God will delay the destruction of the world until after their generation dies. The major problem with many Christians today is that they simply love this world too much and don't want to let go. Another thing is, I believe that many of my fellow Christians view America as the second coming of ancient Israel...that is, God's chosen people and the "Holy Land." They seem to think that since America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and not mentioned by name in Revelation, she is somehow immune from destruction. That couldn't be further from the truth! I believe America will be front and center of the NWO one world government that is ruled over by Antichrist. I believe that New York City could well be the "new Babylon." Most Christians just seem to think that as long as we have a president that calls himself a Christian (I believe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a pawn for Satan) America will be protected and God will bless her. That is just foolish and naive. I'm glad God, through Ron Paul and this movement, opened my eyes to what is going on in this world and has entrusted me with waking others up. It's difficult. Trust me...sometimes I just want to grab some of my Christian friends and shake them. They all believe Bush is some kind of hero of the faith and they can't wait until McCain gets in to power. It's really saddening!

GunnyFreedom

03-20-2008, 01:41 PM

I was raised in a Christian home my entire life. My grandfather was a church-planting missionary. My parents made sure I was in church (Baptist) every Sunday and usually on Wednesday nights as well. I accepted Christ (for those of you not familiar with Christianity, this means to accept that Christ was the Son of God, lived a sinless life, and died on the cross to pay the price for your sins) at the age of 5 and at the age of 10, I really started growing my relationship with Christ. I still attend a Baptist church. The problem with many Christians today, and trust me because I used to fall into this category, is that they are no different than any of the other "sheep" in this country or throughout the world. Christians in the last several decades have not been immune from the dumbing down that goes on in our public school system or the brainwashing of the MSM. Alot of Christians recognize that many current events fall into line with end time prophecies found in the Bible, but its as if they are hoping that God will delay the destruction of the world until after their generation dies. The major problem with many Christians today is that they simply love this world too much and don't want to let go. Another thing is, I believe that many of my fellow Christians view America as the second coming of ancient Israel...that is, God's chosen people and the "Holy Land." They seem to think that since America was founded on Judeo-Christian principles and not mentioned by name in Revelation, she is somehow immune from destruction. That couldn't be further from the truth! I believe America will be front and center of the NWO one world government that is ruled over by Antichrist. I believe that New York City could well be the "new Babylon." Most Christians just seem to think that as long as we have a president that calls himself a Christian (I believe he is a wolf in sheep's clothing and a pawn for Satan) America will be protected and God will bless her. That is just foolish and naive. I'm glad God, through Ron Paul and this movement, opened my eyes to what is going on in this world and has entrusted me with waking others up. It's difficult. Trust me...sometimes I just want to grab some of my Christian friends and shake them. They all believe Bush is some kind of hero of the faith and they can't wait until McCain gets in to power. It's really saddening!

Saddening and sickening. As a former seminarian and an until recently active Baptist, I can attest that nearly the same proportion of asleep to awake exist in the church as in the world, maybe 85/15 in the church and 90/10 in the world. Just barely enough of a difference to notice one, anyway.

It makes it a new kind of American somnolence, with the church now also asleep for the thief.

sedele

03-24-2008, 04:18 PM

Don't be alarmed if believers are still here when there is the required acceptance of the 'mark'. In my years of study, I have not seen any evidence of a pre-tribulation rapture.

Amen! Pre-trib is a LIE!

This doctrine just very well be a big part of the "strong delusion" spoken of in the Bible.

2Th 2:10 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved.

2Th 2:11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

Dr.3D

03-24-2008, 04:53 PM

Amen! Pre-trib is a LIE!

This doctrine just very well be a big part of the "strong delusion" spoken of in the Bible.

Could very well be.

Gotta watch yourself around here though, there are a bunch of people who don't belong responding to these threads. They tend to go off on a rant and take the thread off subject.

DeadtoSin

03-24-2008, 06:09 PM

People wonder if I'm a pre-tribulationist or a post-tribulationist. Well, I'm a pan-tribulationist. I believe that with God in control everything will pan out in the end.

sedele

03-24-2008, 06:31 PM

People wonder if I'm a pre-tribulationist or a post-tribulationist. Well, I'm a pan-tribulationist. I believe that with God in control everything will pan out in the end.

Strong Delusion

As the rapture doctrine sweeps across America in the most unprecedented fashion in modern history, very few realize that the spiritual trap has been set, the snare has snapped shut, and the prophesied Strong Delusion is already upon us. I’m speaking of the false doctrine of dispensationalism, and the marketing tool of that ungodly system — the pre-tribulation rapture.

With the release of the Left Behind book and movie series, the Satanic doctrine of demons has now come to fruition and borne the fruit of its devilish design. While most Christians that have been programmed by the rapture cult continue to “heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears” 1. and defend the system because they want it to be true, others simply dismiss the issue as having any importance. `What does it matter?’ they reason--`as long as we truly love the Lord, it’s just an unimportant issue of timing.’

The latter group will never know why it matters, because they’ve already chosen to close their minds to a study of the issue on that basis. The truth is, this issue has enormous implications for the hearts and souls of end time believers. Indeed, I can categorically state that if you continue in the pre-tribulation rapture delusion and refuse to hear the truth of the matter, you are on extremely dangerous ground in your supposed relationship to the Lord Jesus Christ. If you will continue to read this essay, you will hear the truth of the matter.

Fortunately, a very few courageous souls have taken the Word of God to heart and determined that they will indeed “study to show (themselves) approved.”

Continued @ http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-43.html

dirknb@hotmail.com

03-24-2008, 06:38 PM

No need to, Jesus will intervene and save everyone.

GunnyFreedom

03-24-2008, 11:12 PM

There is a big difference between a false doctrine and a false heart. I do not believe that someone genuinely mistaken and taken in a false doctrine will be punished for a lack of understanding. I do believe that someone with a false heart will be cast into outer darkness, whether his doctrines are perfect, or perfectly wrong.

When I hear someone say 'oh you are damned to hell because you believe in [enter miscellaneous pet irrelevant dogmatic future here]!' it just makes me sick. Sure, maybe I'm a covenant theologian instead of a dispensationalist. Sure, maybe my understanding of the catching up and the personal transfiguration are completely different from that of mainstream churches, but how can someone with the Spirit of Truth in their heart have the audacity to decide for their fellow man that one interpretation of a cryptic prophecy set in the future or another is enough to judge someone as hell-bound or heavenward?

YES there will be strong delusion so as to believe a lie, indeed, I have already seen it. YES, it will be amongst the church, indeed, it already is. There are far too many people amongst us today who in their heart of hearts, would rather cling to a lie that makes them feel comfortable, special, powerful, or safe; then to know the truth which will make them uncomfortable, common, weak, or in jeopardy. They rebel almost violently against any kind of truth which could stand to jeopardize the lie that they believe.

But it is not a specific lie, like you talk about, anybody who believes in a pre-trib rapture must have been given the lie. Instead, it could be anything, anything at all. It could even be perfect doctrine, while assuming a higher place in it than merited -- or it could be false doctrine from the ground up. It is not a specific doctrine itself, but the overt preference for lies over truth.

To those people, God will send strong delusion, to believe the lie, because they have no love of truth.

If your heart is truly in God, and filled with the Spirit of Truth, then you must be prepared at any moment to radically transform the doctrines which you yourself believe, should a correction come from the hand of God. It is easy to say the platitude, "I am!" but are we really? What would you do if suddenly over the course of a week, myriad signs point you in a direction you don't like? What if God led you to discover a mainstream pre-trib rapture? (bear in mind that I do not believe in one myself here...) but if that did happen, what would you do? Would you radically transform your own reason here, or would you be more comfortable with thinking that you are one of the 'special ones' and justify in your mind how it must have been some demon that led you there and not God?

These are hard questions, and there are no easy answers. And yet, they may be the most important answers we will ever consider. Do we really follow Him? or when it comes down to crunch time, are we really our own creatures and not His?

GunnyFreedom

03-24-2008, 11:29 PM

No need to, Jesus will intervene and save everyone.

Actually, it is we, his people, who are charged with doing His work in the world. If we see someone who is hungry and we are capable of helping them, then we must help them or face the guilt of greed or gluttony in our own lives.

This notion you have repeatedly raised in this thread, that Christians believe in an interventionist God, therefore we ought to sit on our ass and fiddle while the world burns around us, it is not a Christian line of reasoning, but a line of reasoning which is opposed to all that which the Messiah stands for.

He showed us that when we do good for people, regardless of race, color, creed, gender, age, or religion, that we have done this good for Messiah; but when we ignore their plight, then we have likewise ignored the Messiah.

Now I know that you are on the outside looking in, and that you are attempting to characterize Christians based on your experiences, but guess what? A lot of nominal Christians are bad, and not good; are false, and not true.

Do you honestly think that those Christians on this board like myself, who have given full-time months if not years to saving this nation and our Liberty from destruction at the hands of evil men, are following in the same philosophy that you cite above? If you encounter someone like, say, a Mother Theresa who has devoted her entire life to nothing but the service and the salvation of humanity, will you likewise open your yaw and spit in her face to claim what you have claimed above?

We can all point to one person in a group to which we do not belong who is not good. I know one woman who is a stupid evil sadistic witch; but do I run around like a braying jackass saying that 'all women are stupid evil sadistic witches?"

Your petty, self-absorbed, self-serving collectivist claptrap has no place in Dr Ron Paul's universe, and had you any decency you would refrain from subjecting us to your wretched bigotries and prejudices.

DeadtoSin

03-25-2008, 11:48 AM

Continued @ http://www.christianmediaresearch.com/cmc-43.html

I'm not sure what you are insinuating. All I did was say that you should believe what you believe, let the pre-trib people believe what they believe. Its been debated for a lot longer than you, and I very much doubt that your input will be the last discussion on it. My post just meant to say "Trust God, don't worry about the small stuff."

Kade

03-25-2008, 12:10 PM

People wonder if I'm a pre-tribulationist or a post-tribulationist. Well, I'm a pan-tribulationist. I believe that with God in control everything will pan out in the end.

What an admirable position. I strongly believe the doctrine of eternal torment to be an appropriate gauge of the emotional empathy of people. Imagine, if there were a god, a rational, loving god at that, whose only requirement for transcendence was the belief that a loving god could not and would not torment his creation for any past transgressions. I don't personally believe in a god, but I'm a cultural Christian, and I take some of my morality from how I was raised. I've read the bible more than many, and I give it no authority over the domain of my mind or my life, as I believe man has progressed much further in thought and conscience since the time it was written. I have a theology degree from Notre Dame, and at the time, mostly a deist/pantheist. I became an atheist/strong agnostic towards the end of my degree, when I realized that I had taken the full prowess of the revelation and found it lacking. In a philosophical sense, I can only forgive those that wield empathy as if it were in itself, the divine mandate, and hence the only mandate. Those that use scripture as a literal revelation believe so strongly that it is the inspired word of god, completely and utterly irrelevant to prevailing revealed facts on reality, that they have created a profound and divisive theological system, that honors imposed divine justice, applied reward and punishment, and ultimately intolerance.