Why We Lost: The Campaign Was Never Running To Win an Election

[bszoka]

"If you’re in a campaign for only gaining power, that’s one thing. If you’re in a campaign to influence ideas and future of the country, the campaign is never over," said Dr. Paul on CNN this morning (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/).

This has been the mentality of the Campaign since day one: they were never running to win an election. Dr. Paul and the people he chose to lead the Campaign never conceived that they could "influence ideas" and win votes.

The few, feeble efforts made by the Campaign to win votes (e.g., the shirtless Mexican postcard sent out in Texas, the Tancredoeqsue "No student visas for illegal aliens" scare-tactics ad ran in Iowa) demonstrated the utter political cluelessness of those responsible.

We deserve candidates who are serious about winning--not for the sake of power, but in order to advocate, and maybe even implement, our ideals in the Congress and, some day, the White House.

Such a mindset is completely alien to those running this Campaign. Woe unto anyone who looks to them for leadership in the campaigns of the future. The first question we should ask any "Ron Paul Republican" is:

Are you running to win (consistent with your principles)? Or are you just trying to make a point?
Besides speaking out for freedom, what will you actually do for freedom if elected?
What kind of leadership experience do you have?
Why should we believe that you can distinguish between competence and incompetence in your decisions about whom to hire and fire?


We can all accept Ron Paul's ideas as the "gold standard" for our future standard-bearers, while at the same time demanding more political savvy, seriousness and professionalism than has been exhibited by this campaign.

[uncollapse]

Oh well. It is quite evident. Ron Paul could easily create a brand of "Change" much more believeable than Obama. But they did not set out to do that. They do not have a strategy to WIN at the very onset of the race. So, there is no reason to believe he would run independent or third party.

[crazyfingers]

Agreed...although AFAIK the shirtless Mexican postcard was fake. If Ron had run a serious campaign we probably still wouldn't have won, but we would've done a lot better. Hopefully people who are in the position to will step up and take this "revolution" to the next level, though.

[A Ron Paul Rebel]

PEOPLE, look at this...

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=127516


Did you miss this?

p.s. Now STFU!!!

[bszoka]

Agreed...although AFAIK the shirtless Mexican postcard was fake.

If so, I stand (happily) corrected. Can anyone verify this? I keep hearing RPFers say the card was a fake but I haven't seen anyone back that up yet.

[SteveMartin]

Well put, BSzoka!

[Bossobass]

Why we lost:

We let imbeciles like you post in this forum.

Show me your resume and I'll let you know what I think. Until then, get in the back of the bus with the other know it all blowhards.

It's always obvious when a wanker like you spouts off about competence and puts words into RP's mouth that you've never had a conversation with any of the people involved, especially Ron Paul.

Save yourself some dignity and refrain from handing me the bullshit that Ron didn't want to win and if he really did, all he would have had to do is hire idiots like you who know it all.

Someone please light a match to this (yet another in an endless string) worthless bull shit thread.

Bosso

[acptulsa]

If so, I stand (happily) corrected. Can anyone verify this? I keep hearing RPFers say the card was a fake but I haven't seen anyone back that up yet.

How do you back that up? The official campaign didn't put it out. The first place it was seen was a parody site--Wonkette, if I remember right. What proof do you want? A tortured confession from it's creator?

Short of buying out Rupert Murdoch, what could be done? We just weren't rich enough to buy enough advertising to counter the free coverage the media gave everyone else. What coverage was given was overwhelmingly negative, making it difficult to risk alienating people with attacks and such. The media is a formidable foe to overcome.

We'll have years before 2012 to learn the hard lessons of this campaign. A useful thing to do in the meantime would be to become a delegate, or get ballot access petitions signed, or run for office, or just about anything but bringing down the grassroots sites with bitching and whining about HQ. Regardless of your perception of the chances, this is still an election year, and there are useful things to do. I think HQ has been sufficiently pilloried by now.

Continuing to beat the horse divisive and counter productive. In other words, it's kinda trollish.

[ARealConservative]

Why we lost:

We let imbeciles like you post in this forum.

Show me your resume and I'll let you know what I think. Until then, get in the back of the bus with the other know it all blowhards.

It's always obvious when a wanker like you spouts off about competence and puts words into RP's mouth that you've never had a conversation with any of the people involved, especially Ron Paul.

Save yourself some dignity and refrain from handing me the bullshit that Ron didn't want to win and if he really did, all he would have had to do is hire idiots like you who know it all.

Someone please light a match to this (yet another in an endless string) worthless bull shit thread.

Bosso

ooh, a rant thread. Let me in.

we lost because dickheads have been riding our efforts from the get go.

I recall one such arsehole belittling residents of Iowa after the straw poll. Saying something about how backwards we are and how apathetic we are.

Then that very same poster contributed a post over the weekend talking about his own meetup group showed less then 50% participation. It appears he has had his head up his own ass for the last 6 months pointing blame at everyone he could without seeing this as a national letdown and a local letdown.


Wow, that felt good. :p

[pcosmar]

Wonderful, another Negativity Fest.


Someone please light a match to this (yet another in an endless string) worthless bull shit thread.
A voice of reason. Thank you.

Do we need any more of these threads?
I will leave you to spread your shit on the walls and each other.
This is dumb.

[ARealConservative]

I will leave you to spread your shit on the walls and each other.

as opposed to this amazingly positive imagery :eek:

[Sandra]

"If you’re in a campaign for only gaining power, that’s one thing. If you’re in a campaign to influence ideas and future of the country, the campaign is never over," said Dr. Paul on CNN this morning (http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/).

This has been the mentality of the Campaign since day one: they were never running to win an election. Dr. Paul and the people he chose to lead the Campaign never conceived that they could "influence ideas" and win votes.

The few, feeble efforts made by the Campaign to win votes (e.g., the shirtless Mexican postcard sent out in Texas, the Tancredoeqsue "No student visas for illegal aliens" scare-tactics ad ran in Iowa) demonstrated the utter political cluelessness of those responsible.

We deserve candidates who are serious about winning--not for the sake of power, but in order to advocate, and maybe even implement, our ideals in the Congress and, some day, the White House.

Such a mindset is completely alien to those running this Campaign. Woe unto anyone who looks to them for leadership in the campaigns of the future. The first question we should ask any "Ron Paul Republican" is:

Are you running to win (consistent with your principles)? Or are you just trying to make a point?
Besides speaking out for freedom, what will you actually do for freedom if elected?
What kind of leadership experience do you have?
Why should we believe that you can distinguish between competence and incompetence in your decisions about whom to hire and fire?


We can all accept Ron Paul's ideas as the "gold standard" for our future standard-bearers, while at the same time demanding more political savvy, seriousness and professionalism than has been exhibited by this campaign.

He's been registered since Nov. and posted 70 times? You bestow your insight now? So you criticize the campaign and do the EXACT SAME THING you accuse them of doing. Go troll another forum.

[SteveMartin]

Will no one speak to those who sold their homes and quit their jobs to support a campaign they thought was bent on winning??

[ARealConservative]

Will no one speak to those who sold their homes and quit their jobs to support a campaign they thought was bent on winning??

those people are heroes of mine.

[acptulsa]

Will no one speak to those who sold their homes and quit their jobs to support a campaign they thought was bent on winning??

Thank you for your patriotism. Sorry we were up against such odds. Don't give up all hope for the country. Lots can happen yet.

[Bossobass]

ooh, a rant thread. Let me in.

we lost because dickheads have been riding our efforts from the get go.

I recall one such arsehole belittling residents of Iowa after the straw poll. Saying something about how backwards we are and how apathetic we are.

Then that very same poster contributed a post over the weekend talking about his own meetup group showed less then 50% participation. It appears he has had his head up his own ass for the last 6 months pointing blame at everyone he could without seeing this as a national letdown and a local letdown.


Wow, that felt good. :p

I'll give you that one, you deserved it. :)

Fact remains we traveled to your illustrious state twice, ran a phone bank for Iowa from our home and donated to various other Iowan projects.

It's your turn to reciprocate. We could use the help. Not that your post doesn't help a lot, but there are many other ways you might contribute.

Bosso

[asheville4paul]

We lost because because this country is content with big government. 99% of dems want it. When you add the fact that being the world policeman IS big government too, 90% of pubs want it too. If every voter in America knew about Ron Paul and was educated on his beliefs, He would at best pull 12%- 18% imo. People who believe in a limited constitutional government are a small minority that I'm proud to be part of. Its a remnant people!

[ronpaulhawaii]

We have NOT lost. While the oval office was always a long shot, ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE!!! That fact is timeless.

That said, I believe one of the biggest problems we continue to battle in this campaign has been the Libertarians and their academic arrogance combined with an inferiority complex born of years of failure. I personally know of LP/RP MU organizers who refused to switch parties because of losing their meaningless ballot access in an age of creeping fascio/socialism. WAKE UP!!! The only way to break the power of the lie called the two-party system is to get the power to change it. The only way to get that power is to EARN it!!! The only way to earn that power is to get off our asses and...

Work Hard - Make Friends - Make History

It all comes down to St. Paul

Become a GOP delegate, support your GOP delegates, support the states left to get more GOP delegates, Principle over Party!!!

DARE TO WIN!!!

[abe447]

The OP is right on part of the reason why Ron Paul lost. The campaign was never about winning. Ron Paul probably never thought he could win. He just wanted to get his ideas out there and try and influence debates. That's what fringe candidates run for. It's the reason Ralph Nader is running. Paul wanted to try and let Republicans know what they used to stand for. Wasn't too successful though.

Ashville hit on another point why Ron Paul lost. Libertarianism just isn't popular. Paul always brought up how many problems we have, but never had any real solutions except to do the opposite of what we have been doing for the past 70-80 years.

Other reasons why Paul lost include associations with kooks like Alex Jones and Don Black. He should have distanced himself as far away as possible from these crazies on the fringes of society. Those two influenced more kooky truthers and racists to join the campaign which drove off normal people. The campaign was also horribly managed. $20 million went down the tubes with nothing to show for it. But let us learn from these people's mistakes and not repeat them for the next time.

[ARealConservative]

I'll give you that one, you deserved it. :)

Fact remains we traveled to your illustrious state twice, ran a phone bank for Iowa from our home and donated to various other Iowan projects.

It's your turn to reciprocate. We could use the help. Not that your post doesn't help a lot, but there are many other ways you might contribute.

Bosso

poltics are local.

Although I appreciate that you made the effort to come to the media sensationalized Iowa Straw Poll and help, all my efforts are local.

I have plenty of people to wake up that are in shouting distance.

And if we can keep the republican in tact long enough, I hope to run for office someday myself.

[jacmicwag]

Just keep in mind that old saying - you can lose the battle but win the war. Millions of people who never heard of RP have some inking today that they didn't have a year ago. Let's see where the convention/delegate system takes us from here on out. I still think it's a good investment of time and money.

[Bradley in DC]

He's been registered since Nov. and posted 70 times? You bestow your insight now? So you criticize the campaign and do the EXACT SAME THING you accuse them of doing. Go troll another forum.

Sandra,

Berin may have few posts here, but he was not only a delegate candidate for Dr. Paul but was on the short list of us responsible for getting Dr. Paul on the ballot (it's very difficult for Republicans in DC) and for which was recognized by the official campaign (http://people.ronpaul2008.com/washington-dc/2008/01/01/you-did-it/). He's worked with many of the official staffers over many months trying to help them with many projects. While he speaks for himself, most other DC metro volunteers who have helped at HQ share his general sentiments.

There are no TV commercials, no radio ads, no mailings--not even emails!--in most states now. If they were running the win, you'd think the least they could do would be send out an email reminding Ron Paul supporters of the need to turn out to vote/show up at caucuses. They didn't do that much the week of the election here in DC, not to any supporters I've asked in Ohio, not in any current states from what we're seeing from posts on the forum here, etc.

In your state, certainly if there were even one competent person at HQ running to win the election, they could have caught the rules changes after the RNC by-law permitted date and other shenanigans that you and others have dutifully exposed.

The sad truth is that HQ is not staffed by the same committed, competent staffers we've seen among the volunteers like yourself.

[smartguy911]

http://www.absolutad.com/gallery/originals_bullshit1_ranndino.jpg

[Matthew P.]

We lost because because this country is content with big government. 99% of dems want it. When you add the fact that being the world policeman IS big government too, 90% of pubs want it too. If every voter in America knew about Ron Paul and was educated on his beliefs, He would at best pull 12%- 18% imo. People who believe in a limited constitutional government are a small minority that I'm proud to be part of. Its a remnant people!

I do believe that you're on to something here, though I don't know that I would go so far as to say that it is over (i.e. "we lost").

I also hesitate to post because it seems as if you cannot say something negative in these forums unless you have what, 1,000+ postings behind your name? (in which case I don't qualify).

Regardless, I don't see this as negative input; rather, constructive criticism - if even that.

I think that it is clear that Ron Paul HQ could have done much better. I was late jumping on the Ron Paul train, but since I did my wife and I have contributed to his campaign and been elected as delegated and influenced many people's votes in his favor. HQ has been bashed and raked over the coals numerous times (which you can see in many other postings) and now Dr. Paul has come out and seemed to waffle on his goals and objectives.

So what?!

The point is - neither you nor I can do anything about that now. All we can do is act with the information that we now have to affect the future, and the truth is, there is a lot still to be done. We are in it to the end - whatever end that may be. There is the possibility that we might tone down our political involvement after the November election, but it is also possible that we might get more involved at local levels and begin seeking offices so that we can continue to propagate the ideologies set forth by our Constitution and Dr. Paul. Then it will be an ongoing influence, one of education, person to person, life touching life. You know that is how the message spreads. What if 5-10 people who felt so passionately about this stuff, from every state in the union became active at local government levels (and some at national levels too)? What would the political structure look like in four years, at the next presidential election? Don't you think that more of America would be educated then, excited about liberty and true freedom? Don't you think that we could then have much more of a voice were Ron Paul to run again - and his idea could potentially resound with millions more?

No, my friends - the battle isn't over - it is far from that. We learn from our mistakes and press on. When you make a mistake once it is an education; if you make it twice then the fault lies squarely on your own shoulders.

[therealjjj77]

Yeah, it was run to win the nation instead. And we just may win the election yet because of it.

[Akus]

Why is there Why We lost thread?
We haven't lost anything yet...

Unless we nominate Ron Paul at the convention and he refuses to run.:mad:

[Henry]

Buuuul Shiiiiiiiit!:mad:

[satchelmcqueen]

We havent lost! Get in or get out! Dont post things on here for all the world to see that downs Ron Paul. Have you no thought? Or are you just a spy?

[kigol]

:cool:

[me3]

Berin is pointing out what we need to think about with candidates, Congressional and Executive going forward.

I agree with him. All of the folks who want to protest, good for you.

The next time around, the candidate and staff need to be held to a higher standard, much earlier.

I'm totally pissed off that the campaign is not spending the money sent in for the Presidential run supporting voters and delegates in the remaining states. For that alone, Snyder, Moore et al should be driven out of town.

Need I remind everyone that we needed $12 million in Q4 to win Iowa and NH. We did better, and the campaign came up short. I think because they set a goal they thought we couldn't reach.

Then Snyder comes out and says they need $21 million by Super Tuesday.

Then Benton tries to tell us the bulk of the money is being spent on private jets when the FEC filing doesn't bear that out at all.

When I think about the LIES and incompetence, but mostly the LIES from the official campaign, it makes my blood boil. People that have been around for awhile know how they sabotaged the Philly Rally, what could have been a major moment for the campaign. AARGH!

[nc4rp]

Someone please light a match to this (yet another in an endless string) worthless bull shit thread.


id like to 3rd that motion.

part of what Ron says is to throw off the opposition. dont take Congressman's Pauls words [to his supporters] so black and white. Hes a smart fella, you have to think smart to get his message fully and take it in context.

[me3]

id like to 3rd that motion.
Why? Because we're not supposed to learn from this?

This MOVEMENT is already pretty disorganized and decentralized. This is an opportunity to learn, and like it or not, what Berin wrote is true. HQ was incompetent, and the campaign rarely played to win.

[me3]

part of what Ron says is to throw off the opposition. dont take Congressman's Pauls words so black and white. Hes a smart fella, you have to think smart to get his message fully and take it in context.
Right.

Like Dr. Paul's "I'm winding down, there is no chance of conventional victory, but I'm not quitting".

Like how HQ has money, but won't spend it.

We've already been through this, the "shadow campaign" crap.

There is no shadow campaign, there was just an incompetent campaign run by HQ.

[nicky6]

I went to a meetup group in NC where the RP coordinator for VA, NC and SC was there. He was completely clueless. This is the man coordinating 3 states!

What's on our resume?? What exactly do we need on our resume to constitute the right to criticize a campaign that we donate lots of money to?

How about what is on the resume of those working for the campaign? What works in a small district in TX does not cut it at the national level.

IMO the biggest problems were:

a)the ads were amateurish and did not correctly address the economy or attack Bush as being a fake conservative, or attack McCain

b)Did not reach out to democrats sooner (before registration switch deadlines)

c)was too nice in the debates, but that is part of who he is. Also too much rambling. Nobody understands that DOE stuff. Why didn't someone say after the first debate to drop that line? It was a killer

Flame me, ban me, whatever. The truth is the truth