Ron Paul hints at Indie Run!

[ItsTime]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN9E3TIbRNU

Listen about 3mins in.

[qh4dotcom]

Ron Paul is saying the same thing Huckabee was saying in February...after Romney dropped out and Huckabee was pressured into dropping out, Huckabee said people who hadn't voted yet deserved to have a choice of candidates they could vote for...Ron Paul said he was the last conservative and people should be able to have a choice to vote for a conservative as McCain is identified as a liberal Democrat.

So that rules out any third party run...until all people who haven't voted yet in the upcoming primaries get a chance to vote for him (the last remaining conservative Republican) there's no hope for a third party run...by the time all people have been given that chance/choice to vote for him as a conservative Republican, it will be too late to launch a 3rd party run...too late to get on the ballots of all 50 states for the general election.

[teshuah]

"Still in the race... sort of...." (the comment at the very end by the interviewer)

ha!

[ItsTime]

He is not saying the same thing Huckabee said because Huckabee was never asked if he was going to run indie. Ron Paul did not say no to the indie run question. His answer was Reps deserve to vote for a conservative.

[TruthAtLast]

i don't think it was a hint at an indy run. but he clearly realizes that there is virtually no chance at winning the Nomination unless McCain self destructs.

The fact that he is mostly continuing out of obligation, concerns me. I'm sure he believes in the Movement and wants to move forward, but he has talked about the "next phase" of our Revolution and hasn't taken any leadership in it. His LPAC site sucks and in fact doesn't even work, he isn't really aggressively trying to win these remaining states.

Let's just say that Ron Paul is correct in that the only true goal now is to get our "message" out there. Wouldn't you be swinging for the fence? Wouldn't you do everything to AGGRESSIVELY attack the principals of John McCain? Even if he couldn't win, he could do a lot to make sure John loses.

In this interview he obviously doesn't think too much of the Democrats either, but which is worse? He is telling us, don't vote for the Democrats, and don't vote for McCain. So are we suppose to just not vote at all in the General Election?

Where is the leadership? Where are the enthusiastic and inspiring speeches not only telling all of his supporters and all of America that they still have a chance to make amends by supporting Freedom based candidates but also that he has a master plan in place for the next few years and here is what we need to do. He says that we should all buy his book and we should all support LPAC, but is it going to be mismanaged by the same Campaign staff who helped cause THEIR OWN Media blackout by not returning phone calls of reporters interested in doing stories, by not having quality campaign material ready, by not getting any speech writers, by not providing ANY central leadership or much information on how the delegate process actually works?

He might still be in the race... but he sounded like a man being FORCED to show up, as if he really didn't want to go.

[Edu]

"Still in the race... sort of...." (the comment at the very end by the interviewer)After Ron answered the guy clearly THREE times, he's still confused? And people think they are getting intelligent news from these people?

Did you see how the guy kept looking off to his left? Was the director giving the sign for "get him the hell off of there"?

You can tell they were in a panic when he didn't say what they wanted. MSM idiots!

You can hear them now in the back rooms, "dammit, dammit, dammit!!! Now we have to put his face on the screen at the next primaries! Fsck!!!! Now everyone will wonder why we tried to blackout his campaign!! Dammit!!! Does anyone have anything on this guy? Anyone? Please!"

[nullvalu]

I don't understand why you morons keep insisting there's going to be a 3rd party run and grasping at straws to say he's hinting at it. How many times does Ron Paul have to say "it's impractical", "i have no intention", "there will be no 3rd party run", ......... until you accept the fact....... there will be no 3rd party run?

[amy31416]

i don't think it was a hint at an indy run. but he clearly realizes that there is virtually no chance at winning the Nomination unless McCain self destructs.

The fact that he is mostly continuing out of obligation, concerns me. I'm sure he believes in the Movement and wants to move forward, but he has talked about the "next phase" of our Revolution and hasn't taken any leadership in it. His LPAC site sucks and in fact doesn't even work, he isn't really aggressively trying to win these remaining states.

Let's just say that Ron Paul is correct in that the only true goal now is to get our "message" out there. Wouldn't you be swinging for the fence? Wouldn't you do everything to AGGRESSIVELY attack the principals of John McCain? Even if he couldn't win, he could do a lot to make sure John loses.

In this interview he obviously doesn't think too much of the Democrats either, but which is worse? He is telling us, don't vote for the Democrats, and don't vote for McCain. So are we suppose to just not vote at all in the General Election?

Where is the leadership? Where are the enthusiastic and inspiring speeches not only telling all of his supporters and all of America that they still have a chance to make amends by supporting Freedom based candidates but also that he has a master plan in place for the next few years and here is what we need to do. He says that we should all buy his book and we should all support LPAC, but is it going to be mismanaged by the same Campaign staff who helped cause THEIR OWN Media blackout by not returning phone calls of reporters interested in doing stories, by not having quality campaign material ready, by not getting any speech writers, by not providing ANY central leadership or much information on how the delegate process actually works?

He might still be in the race... but he sounded like a man being FORCED to show up, as if he really didn't want to go.

I understand your irritation about RP not being aggressive enough, but if you look at it from a different perspective, perhaps you'll understand it: I believe that RP ran for president as a way to get his message out, to inspire the next generation to inquire into the political process and create leaders who would enter the congress, the senate, hell--any political process, in order to get this country moving back into the right direction.

It is our obligation, as "revolutionaries" to support this process and be informed as to what is going on in this country. He has done his part in getting out the message and securing his seat in the house for another term. Ron Paul is the catalyst, and we are the elements to effect real change in this country. He's given us a view of how we should be, ethically and politically. Essentially, he's given us a standard to judge all other politicians by.

I will vote for Ron Paul, come hell or high water, no doubt about that. But will it get him the presidency--not very likely. Will I ever vote the same way I used to? No. I will study every single person running for office and vote my conscience.

We need true leaders to arise from the grassroots and take this movement to the next level. We need to stick together and stay informed.

[Tratzman]

What concerns me too is RP's lack of aggresively getting the message out. He needs to be hammering home his message right now in all remaining primary states but he's not giving anyone the impression that he wants to be president.

[SteveMartin]

An Independent run is not the same thing as a 3rd party run. We are urging the former.

[nullvalu]

An Independent run is not the same thing as a 3rd party run. We are urging the former.

Same thing to Ron Paul. There will be neither. Get your head out of the clouds.

[RollOn2day]

Same thing to Ron Paul. There will be neither. Get your head out of the clouds.


My head will stay in the clouds.

How else can I continue to talk with all my Ron Paul friends who think he can still win the Republican nomination?

Face it. Head in the clouds is a hallmark of this movement...one way or another.

What? You think stopping the military complex, the big pharma complex, the welfare state, the warfare state , reducing most of the federal government, returning to the Gold Standard etc etc etc. is considered "Grounded" thinking?

Why you guys have a problem with us is beyond me. We have done everything we can to get Ron Paul elected as a Republican. We have not taken any energy, time or money away from that strategy by asking for and talking about a third party run.

Third Parties don't win
Women don't get elected President
Black men don't get elected Predident

All three statements have historical weight behind them. Do you think all of these limitations still exist in this country? or just the statement about third parties?

It is Ron Pauls decision. I for one will continue to request his participation in November by being on the ballot in one form or another.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I will also continue to fight for an independent run. I'm not ready to allow myself to be sewn up in the rotting corpse of the GOP, which would rather kill us than allow us to ever influence it enough to even make it twitch.

[acptulsa]

The Republican Party was the third party when Lincoln won. So, you see, one of those three things has historical precedence.

Was anyone here really foolish enough to think this would be easy? Some, undoubtedly, but as for most--I doubt it. I think we are overrun with trolls trying to divide us just as we come into the critical phase. The NWO can afford to hire a whole lot of trolls. Conditions are ripe for us. People are disenfranchised and disaffected. The economy has gone to pot. The systematic destruction of the middle class is reaching a head. Short term thinking has come home to roost.

We can let things slip to the point where literally everyone but the top two percent has had enough, or we can fight harder and try to affect change while there's still something left to save. Right?

Or we can keep slipping down their slippery slope. The choice is ours to make. If drafted, Dr. Paul will serve.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Paul could have said no if he wasn't thinking about an independent run.

Run Ron run! Give us an option that doesn't completely suck.

Right now we're stuck with McCain, Clinton, Obama, Nader, the green party and whatever unknown the libertarian and constitution parties end up putting up.

[MikeStanart]

Wishful thinking.

[nullvalu]

Ron Paul is going to stick it out to the convention. He's said so. That's in September. So if, after the convention, Ron Paul wants to run 3rd party, he'd have like.. 1 month to run an independent campaign for president. Yep, that would make perfect sense.

[Peace&Freedom]

Ron Paul is going to stick it out to the convention. He's said so. That's in September. So if, after the convention, Ron Paul wants to run 3rd party, he'd have like.. 1 month to run an independent campaign for president. Yep, that would make perfect sense.

Starting an independent run before September would not contradict his pledge to stick it out through the convention. An independent candidacy means just that---no party nomination behind you, but you are still a Republican on the ballot for President on Election day. He IS aware there is a difference between this scenario and running under a third party label.

[acptulsa]

Ron Paul is going to stick it out to the convention. He's said so. That's in September. So if, after the convention, Ron Paul wants to run 3rd party, he'd have like.. 1 month to run an independent campaign for president. Yep, that would make perfect sense.

Makes perfect sense if we can raise a sufficient stink at the convention to get conservatives' attention and sympathy.

P.S. Do you really think they'll black out the convention?

[yongrel]

And Elvis didn't die.

[Shed]

Will I ever vote the same way I used to? No. I will study every single person running for office and vote my conscience.
Me too :) .

[acptulsa]

And Elvis didn't die.

Do you think Presley more durable than liberty, or just more popular?

[ItsTime]

I see the shills are out in full force. He could have said no, he did not. Is that not a HINT?

[yongrel]

Do you think Presley more durable than liberty, or just more popular?

Fatter.

[yongrel]

I see the shills are out in full force. He could have said no, he did not. Is that not a HINT?

No, it's not a hint. It's him having a vocabularly consisting of more than monosyllabic affirmations and negations.

[ItsTime]

Sorry but not saying no and then continuing in the same breath to say that voters should have a conservative choice is a pretty big hint in my book.


No, it's not a hint. It's him having a vocabularly consisting of more than monosyllabic affirmations and negations.

[Shed]

No, it's not a hint. It's him having a vocabularly consisting of more than monosyllabic affirmations and negations.

However clearly Ron Paul answers to the 3rd party question, some people here interpret it the same way.

He has previously been more emphatic in ruling out the idea, true. However, his answer was probably intended to criticise both the Republican and Democratic frontrunners and make it clear what the Paul campaign is about, rather than being an about-face on the independent run question.

[acptulsa]

Sorry but not saying no and then continuing in the same breath to say that voters should have a conservative choice is a pretty big hint in my book.

I'm certainly not sorry.

Besides, getting him on the ballot could be enough to get him the G.O.P. nomination. They don't want their vote split--at least not the rank and file (the neocons may not care, since they're happy with Hillobama).

Never say never.

[NoMoreApathy]

I understand your irritation about RP not being aggressive enough, but if you look at it from a different perspective, perhaps you'll understand it: I believe that RP ran for president as a way to get his message out, to inspire the next generation to inquire into the political process and create leaders who would enter the congress, the senate, hell--any political process, in order to get this country moving back into the right direction.

You know what the main problem with this is?

MOST people have such a short attention span as it is. In 4 years, exactly how many of us are still going to be politically involved? I'd be totally surprised if it were any more than 50% of RP's base, especially considering how many young people there are who are so fledgling to the political process as it is. I expect many of those young people to wither away and go back into distraction. Maybe I think much less of people in general than others, but hasn't it become obvious that there isn't very much to be expected from the masses anyway?

I hope I'm wrong about that. I hope that every single person who has awakened to RP's message STAYS awake, and does not become once again politically apathetic.

Our biggest challenge was educating people on the actual political process. Most people still think it's just "show up and vote", and that's all you need to do.

We need every single one of us to maintain the momentum we've built and continue it on.

I just fear that without that current face to put to the activism, that the momentum will wither away.

The most important thing to remember is, it's not about the man, and it never was. It's the MESSAGE.

[Peace&Freedom]

Possible 'backdoor' brokered GOP convention scenario, involving an independent run:

Paul supporters continue to win overt delegates, or stealth delegates for two more months. Paul supporters gain majority status (at least as stealth delegates) in 6 or more states/territories. Bad news about how disastrously McCain will lose in November continues to pour in (as in polls showing him losing by double digits), such that the whole party is aware by mid June. Then Paul speaks at the June 21 march and announces to plus or minus 100,000 attendees he's starting an independent run. The movement immediately roars back to life, and the campaign to depose McCain through Rule 32 begins.

GOP convention Rule 32 basically says you need only majorities of six delegations to call for a suspension of the rules. Repeat, six delegations total, NOT a majority of delegates or delegations, are all that's needed. The stealth delegates would NOT be bound to oppose suspending the rules. The Paul supporter-controlled delegations do so at the convention, for the purposes of unbinding all delegates. All at once, all the different delegate binding rules are thrown out, and everyone can vote their conscience. McCain then fails to win on the first ballot, and we're off to the races.

Rank and file Republicans, knowingly facing certain defeat in November under McCain, and also knowing Paul would be on the ballot as an independent regardless, could convert to Paul under this scenario. But the show of strength by Paul supporters at the march and in delegate gathering, plus his announcing an indy run, are the needed catalysts to make this work.

[NoMoreApathy]

Possible 'backdoor' brokered GOP convention scenario, involving an independent run:

Paul supporters continue to win overt delegates, or stealth delegates for two more months. Paul supporters gain majority status (at least as stealth delegates) in 6 or more states/territories. Bad news about how disastrously McCain will lose in November continues to pour in (as in polls showing him losing by double digits), such that the whole party is aware by mid June. Then Paul speaks at the June 21 march and announces to plus or minus 100,000 attendees he's starting an independent run. The movement immediately roars back to life, and the campaign to depose McCain through Rule 32 begins.

GOP convention Rule 32 basically says you need only majorities of six delegations to call for a suspension of the rules. Repeat, six delegations total, NOT a majority of delegates or delegations, are all that's needed. The stealth delegates would NOT be bound to oppose suspending the rules. The Paul supporter-controlled delegations do so at the convention, for the purposes of unbinding all delegates. All at once, all the different delegate binding rules are thrown out, and everyone can vote their conscience. McCain then fails to win on the first ballot, and we're off to the races.

Rank and file Republicans, knowingly facing certain defeat in November under McCain, and also knowing Paul would be on the ballot as an independent regardless, could convert to Paul under this scenario. But the show of strength by Paul supporters at the march and in delegate gathering, plus his announcing an indy run, are the needed catalysts to make this work.

This is a great scenario concerning getting VOTERS to get on board eventually, but the DC establishment and their puppet masters do not care about party. There is a bigger agenda, and either party will suit that agenda.

The establishment is what we are up against. We're not even really up against the voters per se, no matter how much it might seem like we are.

You have to get past the left/right, dem/repub paradigm.

[acptulsa]

Granted. Now, are most delegates the RNC and Skull and Bones types, or are most rank-and-file conservative Republicans who want to see their party survive?

[Liberty4life]

I seem to recall suggesting he start his third party run a couple months ago everyone seemed to reject that idea, now you say it may be too late,

[RonPaulFanInGA]

The convention is in September. I'm not sure, but I would think most states have their filing deadlines around or before that time. You can't wait that long and then run independent and be on the ballot.

[acptulsa]

The convention is in September. I'm not sure, but I would think most states have their filing deadlines around or before that time. You can't wait that long and then run independent and be on the ballot.

True--which is why I've been advocating for a time to do the petitions this summer. That and they'll be a great big stick that'll allow Dr. Paul to speak oh, so softly when negotiating at the convention.

[Peace&Freedom]

Granted. Now, are most delegates the RNC and Skull and Bones types, or are most rank-and-file conservative Republicans who want to see their party survive?

I'm hoping the rank and file Republicans make up the vast majority of the delegates. More info on the convention rules, including rule 32 at:
http://devvy.net/pdf/mar08/2008_Call_FINAL.pdf

[Joseph Hart]

[QUOTE=qh4dotcom;1340495]...pressured into dropping out...[QUOTE]

Remember that time Dr.Paul said "Washington didnt change me"? I think this plays in here that he wont drop out... EVER!

[Shed]

True--which is why I've been advocating for a time to do the petitions this summer. That and they'll be a great big stick that'll allow Dr. Paul to speak oh, so softly when negotiating at the convention.

It's really not a big stick at all. To be honest, I think the kind of Republicans who voted for McCain or any of the other candidates would rather see Paul leave the party.

[acptulsa]

It's really not a big stick at all. To be honest, I think the kind of Republicans who voted for McCain or any of the other candidates would rather see Paul leave the party.

Would they prefer that we go, too--and take our young votes with us? What future will they have then?

[Shed]

Would they prefer that we go, too--and take our young votes with us? What future will they have then?

I agree that I can see little sense of self-preservation in the Republican party :) .

[TruthAtLast]

We need true leaders to arise from the grassroots and take this movement to the next level.

There is nothing more true than that statement.

It is clear that Ron Paul will not be the future of this Movement. Not necessarily because people wouldn't want him to be, but because HE doesn't want to be. He seems to feel that people are attached to HIM rather than to the Movement. He seems to want to distance himself from the Grassroots effort and step out of the leadership roll, hoping others will emerge to fill that void. He got the ball rolling and wants us to take it from here.

But there is a problem with that strategy. HE is the rally point right now. He has the ability to galvanize the supporters (not to mention hundreds of thousands of email addresses). Whether he likes it or not, central leadership is needed for EVERY SUCCESSFUL REVOLUTION IN THE HISTORY OF THE WORLD and he is that leader that everyone is looking to for direction. He talks about the "next phase" but only really mentions a march (which he then says he can't really be involved with and MAYBE he'll come) and his own Liberty PAC (which hasn't been updated in who knows how long and has contact information that is broken).

If he has a master plan (even if it isn't to necessarily be President) then the supporters need to be in on it, otherwise it is yet another missed opportunity for the Movement to grow even further. Of course it has helped people "wake up" and start thinking differently, but that isn't enough to take over the Republican party as he seems intent on (or has at least talked about) doing.

If he is serious about pushing this Movement to the next level then myself and thousands of others are waiting for some direction from him. He's given us NOTHING. Fight for delegates? We're already doing that (with little help from HQ I might add). Support other Liberty Candidates? He's only endorsed a couple people and hasn't given us any direction on how best to support these candidates (not to mention the LPAC site not even working correctly). Buy his book? Well great but if that is the great "strategy" then this thing is pretty shot.

If he is serious on just getting "the message" out there, then there is no better time than now! ATTACK McCain and the other Candidates. What else does he have to lose at this point?

I see a man who is tired and who somewhat reluctant to even continue. I see someone who appears to have given up long ago and now is continuing out of obligation. I'm sure the campaign has taken a toll on him. But he has seen the support he has. Wouldn't that energize him? Wouldn't that get him fired up?

There is a problem when the supporters are more fired up and enthusastic than their leader.

[nc4rp]

please let this issue die until Congressman Paul says otherwise. Stay with the plan, stop trying to side track everything.

[tonyr1988]

I haven't jumped on the "Indy Run / 3rd party" bandwagon, but I have to admit that he did hint at it in this interview.

He sounded like he knew he wouldn't have a chance at winning, but that isn't the point - the point would be to give people a true conservative to vote for. And if he had an Independent run, it wouldn't contradict him staying in until the convention (although a 3rd party would be viewed that way).

I'm warming up to the Indy idea, actually. Not necessarily to win, but to advance our ideas even more, and possibly have a larger presence at the convention.

[amy31416]

It is clear that Ron Paul will not be the future of this Movement. Not necessarily because people wouldn't want him to be, but because HE doesn't want to be. He seems to feel that people are attached to HIM rather than to the Movement. He seems to want to distance himself from the Grassroots effort and step out of the leadership roll, hoping others will emerge to fill that void. He got the ball rolling and wants us to take it from here.



*snipped*

What's more important, the man or the message?

In my opinion--the message. Ron Paul never said he was perfect, he's also indicated that he entered the race reluctantly. I feel that we're lucky to have had him in the capacity that we have. WE are responsible for taking things to the next level. That's a big part of the message: Self-reliance. And while I obviously agree that we need a leader to arise, that's simply because leaders provide direction amidst chaos. And there's certainly plenty of chaos around here!

Instead of being disappointed by this, we should simply accept that this is how he operates, this is what he decided and stick together to achieve goals such as electing like-minded people to office, educating people on the constitution, resisting the loss of our national sovereignty and preventing lawmakers from doing crappy stuff like voting for the Patriot Act.

If you see that something isn't being done as well as you'd like, what do you do? Point fingers? Complain? Or do you do something about it?

[mketcher]

Ron Paul is going to stick it out to the convention. He's said so. That's in September. So if, after the convention, Ron Paul wants to run 3rd party, he'd have like.. 1 month to run an independent campaign for president. Yep, that would make perfect sense.

I doubt that Ron Paul would make an independent run for president -- ballot access would be too difficult and expensive between now and the election. There are several possible scenarios for a 3rd Party run, which would probably be on the LP ticket. The LP will have ballot access in at least 47 states.

The LP convention is in May. Ron Paul has until then to decide if he wants to try for the LP nomination. It would be far more advantageous for him to wait until then to announce, rather than announcing now.

Another possibility is that Ron goes all the way to the convention, and causes as much trouble as he can there. In the meantime, the LP nominates a strong "place-holder" candidate -- perhaps Bob Barr or Wayne Root. Barr would probably be the more likely choice. Once the Republican convention is over, then Barr drops out (or drops to VP) and Ron Paul moves in as the LP's presidential candidate.

This may seem somewhat far-fetched, but I was at a local LP meeting recently, in which Bob Barr spoke. The notion of a "place-holder candidate" for Ron Paul came up at that meeting, so I know that Barr is aware of that strategy. There have also been some rumors about Barr and Paul meeting recently -- and, of course, Barr was the one who introduced Ron at the famous AIPAC speech. There is a "draft Barr" movement within the LP -- and this is being led by some Ron Paul supporters.

I'm not saying that this will happen. I have no inside knowledge. I'm just reading between the lines. Ron has been intentionally vague in his recent statements. He obviously doesn't want to reveal his hand this early in the game. But until he does reveal his hand, he still has to keep the morale up with the troops. They need to have something to fight for.

I do think that it would be very dramatic for Ron Paul to announce at the Republican convention -- maybe even in a speech before the entire convention -- that the party has abandoned its small-government principles ... and he's going to run as president on the LP ticket.

[Akus]

Where is the leadership? Where are the enthusiastic and inspiring speeches not only telling all of his supporters and all of America that they still have a chance to make amends by supporting Freedom based candidates but also that he has a master plan in place for the next few years and here is what we need to do. He says that we should all buy his book and we should all support LPAC, but is it going to be mismanaged by the same Campaign staff who helped cause THEIR OWN Media blackout by not returning phone calls of reporters interested in doing stories, by not having quality campaign material ready, by not getting any speech writers, by not providing ANY central leadership or much information on how the delegate process actually works?

He might still be in the race... but he sounded like a man being FORCED to show up, as if he really didn't want to go.

Sadly you are one million percent right. They say this is not about Ron Paul, but really, at least until 09/04/2008, IT IS. We are fighting like madmen, we are making calls, knocking on doors, distributing literature, argue both on line and in real life and all for what. For the "meh, I won't win, or may be I will, or may be I won't" type of attitude that Ron Paul is displaying?

Look at the Hillary's campaign. Look at that of Obama and McCain. Those are war machines. They answer phones, they are on TV, they spend money on advertisement. Everyone knows who all 3 of them are.

Why should an average John Q. Voter care about some old guy from Texas, when even he himself doesn't project excitement and urgency of him being a president? If I knew nothing of Ron Paul, I'd dismiss him, too.

We are left to rely on no one but our own grassroot powers. But the blame is 70/30. If the official staff is filled with some high-schoolers who probably do nothing but eat delivery pizza while playing their X-Box on a big plasma TV (most likely bought with our $$), shouldn't Ron Paul start a shitstorm and fire their asses and get a professional that his $20 mil war chest would suggest?

It hurts me so much to see indifference on Ron Paul's behalf, as if this is a football bet and not quite possibly the last effort to save what remains of our Constitutional Republic. It hurts me a lot that the local grassroots are not as effective as we could be because of our little experience in this. But none of this is as painful as the thought that if we tank and Ron Paul loses, we will prove all the pundits right.

We were just a fringe counterculture movement made of three internet geeks in their mom's basement.

And that hurts like a motherfucker.

[Akus]

There is nothing more truer than that statement.

It is clear that Ron Paul will not be the future of this Movement. Not necessarily because people wouldn't want him to be, but because HE doesn't want to be. He seems to feel that people are attached to HIM rather than to the Movement. He seems to want to distance himself from the Grassroots effort and step out of the leadership roll, hoping others will emerge to fill that void. He got the ball rolling and wants us to take it from here.
And that is very very wrong. I don't want another Ross Perot. I want Ron Paul to WIN:mad: and I can't take seriously anyone who looks like a leader and acts like a leader, only to do what Ross Perot did to his grassroots - betray them.

Why would I "continue the movement"? Who is to say that the next President/Congressman/Senator/Governor/Sheriff with Ron Paul like rhetoric will not pull the same shit Ross Perot did or Ron Paul did? Why bother? Why tell people about him? Why get excited? Why care, donate, knock on doors, watch TV for results?

Why doesn't Ron Paul, who is far from an idiot, see this?:(:(

[JS4Pat]

i don't think it was a hint at an indy run. but he clearly realizes that there is virtually no chance at winning the Nomination unless McCain self destructs.

The fact that he is mostly continuing out of obligation, concerns me. I'm sure he believes in the Movement and wants to move forward, but he has talked about the "next phase" of our Revolution and hasn't taken any leadership in it. His LPAC site sucks and in fact doesn't even work, he isn't really aggressively trying to win these remaining states.

Let's just say that Ron Paul is correct in that the only true goal now is to get our "message" out there. Wouldn't you be swinging for the fence? Wouldn't you do everything to AGGRESSIVELY attack the principals of John McCain? Even if he couldn't win, he could do a lot to make sure John loses.

In this interview he obviously doesn't think too much of the Democrats either, but which is worse? He is telling us, don't vote for the Democrats, and don't vote for McCain. So are we suppose to just not vote at all in the General Election?

Where is the leadership? Where are the enthusiastic and inspiring speeches not only telling all of his supporters and all of America that they still have a chance to make amends by supporting Freedom based candidates but also that he has a master plan in place for the next few years and here is what we need to do. He says that we should all buy his book and we should all support LPAC, but is it going to be mismanaged by the same Campaign staff who helped cause THEIR OWN Media blackout by not returning phone calls of reporters interested in doing stories, by not having quality campaign material ready, by not getting any speech writers, by not providing ANY central leadership or much information on how the delegate process actually works?

He might still be in the race... but he sounded like a man being FORCED to show up, as if he really didn't want to go.

QFT.

This was my exact reaction after viewing that video.

I don't want Ron Paul leading the movement out of obligation because that is not really leadership. :mad:

[JS4Pat]

I don't understand why you morons keep insisting there's going to be a 3rd party run and grasping at straws to say he's hinting at it. How many times does Ron Paul have to say "it's impractical", "i have no intention", "there will be no 3rd party run", ......... until you accept the fact....... there will be no 3rd party run?

Probably only ONCE if we would just say "there will be no 3rd party run". :rolleyes:

[familydog]

He's probly keeping the whole issue ambigous because he wants his supporters to stay on track, and not give up. By not saying no there will be no third party or independent run, he is keeping the enthusiasm alive. The hardocre, like many of us here, will always be enthusiastic about the message, but as you can see from the decreasing amount of forum participation, if things look bad people will tuck their tale and run. It's sad and unfortunate, but it is a fact. I doubt he will make an independent run, but if he does, I will be skeptical as to whether he actually wants to.

[kirkblitz]

who's to say he doesn't announce that independent bid the day after the convention in the unlikely event he doesn't get the repub nomination, guess we gotta wait

[speciallyblend]

impratical doesnt mean NO:) you could say this whole campaign was impratical but it exists:)

[speciallyblend]

it would be impratical to announce an indy run before the convention. what would be pratical is announcing after the convention;)

[Peace&Freedom]

it would be impratical to announce an indy run before the convention. what would be pratical is announcing after the convention;)

But doing it after would be impractical, since the deadline for getting on the ballot as an independent in most states will have passed.:cool:

[speciallyblend]

But doing it after would be impractical, since the deadline for getting on the ballot as an independent in most states will have passed.:cool:

plan 2 ,we dont need ron pauls permission to put him on the ballot;) so if the gop ignores ron paul .the most pratical thing to do is vote for RON PAUL 2008,or write him in or have another party endorse him,there are many options.
One option i dont have is voting for mccain,it will not happen

[DFF]

Is there a way Paul could run Indy/3rd and still keep his seat?

Anyway, I wish Steve Forbes would speak with him about a potential Indy run.

They agree (as far as I know) on a LOT of issues.

And with Forbes onboard; money wouldn't be an issue.

Plus, Forbes' name recognition would enhance Ron Paul's image in the eyes of the sheeple bigtime.

[TruthAtLast]

If you see that something isn't being done as well as you'd like, what do you do? Point fingers? Complain? Or do you do something about it?

I do a little of both. :D

I point fingers because I guess I'm hoping he snaps out of it and becomes a true leader of this Movement. I am clearly doing something about it in the fact that I'm developing a massive grassroots information tool, and donating to every one of these candidates I can find.

I totaly respect that maybe this is a burden that Ron never really fully intended to take on. But imagine the burden and leadership he would have taken on had he won. He would have been leading our entire country and the free world. It couldn't have been LESS than the leadership we are asking of him.

My point is that whether he likes it or not, he is the point man right now at least until someone else steps up to take his place. If any of us sent out an email, we wouldn't be raising a million dollars in 24 hours. If he simply waves his hand, pocketbooks open and money flows in. He has access to a massive number of supporters and if he is going to step back, let it be after the Movement has its feet on the ground and is fully capable of pushing forward on its own.

I guess I would just like his guidence in a time when he is telling us to move onto the "next phase". There are still people here that are enthusiastic and willing to fight. But people are splintering into many different directions and nothing ever really gets done that way. History is filled with examples where bottom up organizations fail time and time again. There MUST be centralized leadership.

[rockandrollsouls]

Paul + Forbes = victory

[nate895]

Paul + Forbes = victory

Forbes endorsed the Ghoul.

[TruthAtLast]

Paul + Forbes = victory

McCain + Poison = victory

:D

[IDefendThePlatform]

plan 2 ,we dont need ron pauls permission to put him on the ballot;) so if the gop ignores ron paul .the most pratical thing to do is vote for RON PAUL 2008,or write him in or have another party endorse him,there are many options.
One option i dont have is voting for mccain,it will not happen

Actually, I think we do need a statement of intent from the candidate himself, in addition to the required number of signatures, to get him on the ballot in most states. That's why I think we need to convince him to either declare an indy run ASAP, or accept the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party nominations.

And I agree 100% about not voting for McCain.

[Physics]

I think Dr. Paul is trying to tell us that it isn't about this presidential run. It isn't about becoming president, it's about us. This is about waking up America! This is about taking over the party from the inside!

Listen carefully to why he says we need delagates, it's to shape the future party. We have already seen a few of us running for office around the country. Don't you see, Ron Paul's mission is 100% accomplished, he has energized a rEVOLution of freedom. He has motivated a generation of freedom fighters, and it doesn't matter if Ron Paul wins in 2008. It doesn't matter unless we make it not matter. In 30 years, we could possibly be looking back at the time when America was just beginning to realize that the founding fathers weren't wrong after all, and my friends, WE are the ones who must teach our children, friends, family and everyone we meet about the message of freedom, of which Ron Paul spoke so well. We are the rEVOLution, not Ron Paul. You are looking for a leader, so produce one. This is a battle which we cannot lose.

[Carole]

Forbes is a neocon and is backing McInSane I believe.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I think Dr. Paul is trying to tell us that it isn't about this presidential run. It isn't about becoming president, it's about us. This is about waking up America! This is about taking over the party from the inside!

Listen carefully to why he says we need delagates, it's to shape the future party. We have already seen a few of us running for office around the country. Don't you see, Ron Paul's mission is 100% accomplished, he has energized a rEVOLution of freedom. He has motivated a generation of freedom fighters, and it doesn't matter if Ron Paul wins in 2008. It doesn't matter unless we make it not matter. In 30 years, we could possibly be looking back at the time when America was just beginning to realize that the founding fathers weren't wrong after all, and my friends, WE are the ones who must teach our children, friends, family and everyone we meet about the message of freedom, of which Ron Paul spoke so well. We are the rEVOLution, not Ron Paul. You are looking for a leader, so produce one. This is a battle which we cannot lose.

Seems as ridiculous as the notion the other hundreds of neo-con delegates would turn tail and support Ron Paul. Why would they let our 50-100 delegates influence anything? They would just laugh, blow down any resolutions submitted, and go full steam ahead with the status quo. Which truly does represent the will of the GOP base far more than we could've guessed before this campaign began. Face it, a strong section of the GOP, likely even the majority, remains complicit and supportive of both the war and attacks on the Constitution.

[IDefendThePlatform]

I think Dr. Paul is trying to tell us that it isn't about this presidential run. It isn't about becoming president, it's about us. This is about waking up America! This is about taking over the party from the inside!

Listen carefully to why he says we need delagates, it's to shape the future party. We have already seen a few of us running for office around the country. Don't you see, Ron Paul's mission is 100% accomplished, he has energized a rEVOLution of freedom. He has motivated a generation of freedom fighters, and it doesn't matter if Ron Paul wins in 2008. It doesn't matter unless we make it not matter. In 30 years, we could possibly be looking back at the time when America was just beginning to realize that the founding fathers weren't wrong after all, and my friends, WE are the ones who must teach our children, friends, family and everyone we meet about the message of freedom, of which Ron Paul spoke so well. We are the rEVOLution, not Ron Paul. You are looking for a leader, so produce one. This is a battle which we cannot lose.

I agree that the revolution is larger than just the presidency. But the best way to continue to grow the revolution, is to continue to run for president as an independent. That is how this got going in the first place and is how it could get even bigger over the next 8 months if Dr. P so chooses.

Look at how much forum readership, not to mention meetup groups, facebook, canvassing, etc... have all dropped off in the last month. An Indy run would completely turn that around, and the energy would spillover into other pro-freedom candidacies. Its win-win.

[amy31416]

I do a little of both. :D

I point fingers because I guess I'm hoping he snaps out of it and becomes a true leader of this Movement. I am clearly doing something about it in the fact that I'm developing a massive grassroots information tool, and donating to every one of these candidates I can find.



Believe me, I do feel the same frustration that you do. The man is 72 years old and I can't claim to know exactly what his notions are with this movement, but I do trust him--and I believe that he's doing the best he can.

That being said, we have very, very high expectations of him--ones that he may not be able to live up to. So, once again...the ball is in our court.

And thank you for helping in the development of that tool. Fantastic stuff.

[Knightskye]

"It's not practical. Republicans deserve someone conservative to vote for."

Sorry, I don't see how that's hinting at an Independent run.

Calling Obama a fraud = awesome. :D

[kigol]

:cool:

[Captain America]

I don't understand why you morons keep insisting there's going to be a 3rd party run and grasping at straws to say he's hinting at it. How many times does Ron Paul have to say "it's impractical", "i have no intention", "there will be no 3rd party run", ......... until you accept the fact....... there will be no 3rd party run?


F Yourself cause thats all the good you can possibly do.

Let us all vote for the lesser of evil, we have to push him to run. Go ahead throw your vote away and vote for any of the globalists. Damn this pisses me off. No Ill will but damn, you must not want to change a thing. What other option do we have.

[rockandrollsouls]

See, what I don't understand here is the people that condemn an indy run claim they will vote for him anyway, so what's it matter to them? The purpose of an indy run is to physically have him on the ballot so other people can vote for him instead of having to write him in...dumbies.

[nodope0695]

Don't hold your breath, bud.

[rockandrollsouls]

And what's the harm in getting him on the ballot? Unless you're deliberately trying to keep other people from voting for him...makes no sense to me.

[acptulsa]

I agree that I can see little sense of self-preservation in the Republican party :) .

The rank and file of the party is waking up. They aren't quite the same as the neocon RNC, though they certainly are team players. Ron Paul is playing this the way he has to. He is leading the burrowing from within, and he's downplaying the fact that he has attacked from without (don't forget that he's a life member of the Libertarian Party and was the Libertarian candidate when I first voted for him for president). He knows that the G.O.P. candidate gets a lot more publicity than the Libertarian Party candidate--and so do you and I. If we can get him that nomination, he can no longer be ignored.

If Dr. Paul seems lukewarm, consider that some of us have gotten a little carried away with enthusiasm. He doesn't want us selling our homes for him or getting so caught up that when the neocons black us out we swing into massive despair. He cannot in good conscience promise us a rose garden. I think we can all see by now that's a responsible position.

Dr. Paul doesn't seem to have given up on us hijacking the convention. I think those ballot access petitions would be useful leverage for him to use to move the G.O.P. If they turn out to be the only way to put him on the ballot where I can vote for him in the fall in my no-write-ins state, that suits me. I've "thrown my vote away" on third parties many a time hoping to create enough percentage points to convince people to join us. We may be on the verge of creating such a critical mass--but we have a better chance of swearing him in if we can push McCain aside.

But if we're going to do that, it is critical that Dr. Paul not scare the rank and file Republicans away. We're rocking the boat hard. He must reassure them that he can be a stabilizing influence to get them to join us. Having the young tell the old, "You must join us or you will be the ones splitting our vote is not the sort of thing designed to make people of a certain age happy. Nonetheless, we have the truly conservative candidate and that's our pitch.

We have to step up to the plate. Dr. Paul must play this quietly and carefully, and we must step up, or this game won't work. We don't have the numbers or the positions of power to hijack the party. We must win the rank and file over. We have youth, we offer enthusiasm and hope for American conservatism to have a future, and the neocons can at this point only offer failure and embarassment. Dr. Paul saw how the party came back after Nixon, and he knows what his role needs to be. He must offer conservatism, stability and us. And we must let him.

This is why he can't spout revolution. This is why he can't even bring up the subject of an independent run himself, and must allow himself nothing more than "wiggle room". This is why we must step up, have faith, and attack the flank ourselves. He must reassure the rank and file, and we must both threaten and inspire the rank and file. Can we do this?

I really see no other remotely viable option that will get us a president with libertarian ideals in January.

[acptulsa]

Bump for the morning crowd.

[mketcher]

Is there a way Paul could run Indy/3rd and still keep his seat?

Anyway, I wish Steve Forbes would speak with him about a potential Indy run.

They agree (as far as I know) on a LOT of issues.

And with Forbes onboard; money wouldn't be an issue.

Plus, Forbes' name recognition would enhance Ron Paul's image in the eyes of the sheeple bigtime.

I don't see any reason why Paul could not run as a 3rd Party and still run for his congressional seat as a Republican. From what I've seen, the law in TX is clear: You can run for two offices at once. LBJ had that law passed years ago, so that he could do so. Of course, he was running within the same party. Until I see a law or party rule that would prevent Ron Paul from running for two offices at once, I'll continue to assume that he can do so. Some people have made unsubtantiated assertions that he can't do so, but I've seen nothing substantiated.

[acptulsa]

I don't see any reason why Paul could not run as a 3rd Party and still run for his congressional seat as a Republican. From what I've seen, the law in TX is clear: You can run for two offices at once. LBJ had that law passed years ago, so that he could do so. Of course, he was running within the same party. Until I see a law or party rule that would prevent Ron Paul from running for two offices at once, I'll continue to assume that he can do so. Some people have made unsubtantiated assertions that he can't do so, but I've seen nothing substantiated.

Has more to do with pissing off the G.O.P. rank and file than anything else.

[mketcher]

plan 2 ,we dont need ron pauls permission to put him on the ballot;) so if the gop ignores ron paul .the most pratical thing to do is vote for RON PAUL 2008,or write him in or have another party endorse him,there are many options.
One option i dont have is voting for mccain,it will not happen


That's why he would have to run 3rd Party -- most likely LP -- with the LP having a placeholder candidate until after the Rep. convention, who would then give way to Ron Paul. See my post above where I expand on that strategy.

[mketcher]

I think Dr. Paul is trying to tell us that it isn't about this presidential run. It isn't about becoming president, it's about us. This is about waking up America! This is about taking over the party from the inside!

Listen carefully to why he says we need delagates, it's to shape the future party. We have already seen a few of us running for office around the country. Don't you see, Ron Paul's mission is 100% accomplished, he has energized a rEVOLution of freedom. He has motivated a generation of freedom fighters, and it doesn't matter if Ron Paul wins in 2008. It doesn't matter unless we make it not matter. In 30 years, we could possibly be looking back at the time when America was just beginning to realize that the founding fathers weren't wrong after all, and my friends, WE are the ones who must teach our children, friends, family and everyone we meet about the message of freedom, of which Ron Paul spoke so well. We are the rEVOLution, not Ron Paul. You are looking for a
leader, so produce one. This is a battle which we cannot lose.

I think that's part of his strategy. He has a long-term strategy and a short-term strategy. The long-term strategy involves taking over the party. The short-term strategy may involve a 3rd Party run.

Dr. Paul dances around the issue -- not as a normal politican dances around issues, but because he doesn't want to reveal his entire hand to his opponents. He wants to keep them off-balance and guessing. Unfortunately, in order to do that, he also has to keep his supporters off-balance and guessing. So, he drops hints occasionally. It may also be that Ron Paul is considering several options, depending on how things play out over the next few months.

A third-party run in 2008 would not preclude working within the Republican Party. You attack your enemy on several different fronts. A third party run would push the Republican Party towards a more constitutionalist approach. This is the strategy Norman Thomas used as a socialist, in the earlier part of the 20th Century. He ran year-after-year -- from 1928-1948 -- as a socialist. He lost every year, of course, with a paltry percentage of the vote. At the same time, socialists were working within the Democratic Party, so that most of Thomas' platform was eventually adopted by the Democrats.

Ron Paul could do the same thing, using his allies within the Republican Party to push the party towards a more constitutionalist line, and using a Third Party run to force the Republicans to adopt a a more constitutionalist platform. Forcing your enemy to fight on two fronts is a good strategy -- and even if Ron Paul keeps hinting at a 3rd Party run, he scares the neocon wing of the Republican Party, because they know that in a close election, the LP could swing the vote ... and this could be a very close election.

[mketcher]

Actually, I think we do need a statement of intent from the candidate himself, in addition to the required number of signatures, to get him on the ballot in most states. That's why I think we need to convince him to either declare an indy run ASAP, or accept the Constitution Party and Libertarian Party nominations.

And I agree 100% about not voting for McCain.

It may not be wise of him to announce that he wants a 3rd Party nomination this soon. That will give the enemy time to counterattack. Keep them off-balance. See my previous posts about how he could go Third Party even after the Republican convention. I realize that many of his supporters want to see him make an announcement, but now may not be the most opportune time to do that. It's better just to continue working, getting delegates, spreading the word, etc. Remember, the general doesn't always tell the troops what the strategy for victory will be.

[mketcher]

And what's the harm in getting him on the ballot? Unless you're deliberately trying to keep other people from voting for him...makes no sense to me.

Well, it does cost a lot of money and time and man-power to get on the ballot in most of the states. That could very well be put to better use, especially if he decides to run as an LP candidate.

[TruthAtLast]

F Yourself cause thats all the good you can possibly do.

Let us all vote for the lesser of evil, we have to push him to run. Go ahead throw your vote away and vote for any of the globalists. Damn this pisses me off. No Ill will but damn, you must not want to change a thing. What other option do we have.

i see your point, but you act as if the entire Movement hinges on the ability to get Ron Paul the presidency. That is the problem. This Movement may span YEARS, in fact maybe SEVERAL election cycles. RP has acknowledged this. But there are many ways to take back a country and influence policy so the answer to "what other option do we have" is that we have many, many, many options.

Of course we should support Ron Paul. If he decided to run as an Independent or 3rd party, then yes he would be the best choice to vote for and even if he couldn't win, it is still one more step forward. However, he has said over and over and over again that he WILL NOT RUN. We aren't making this up, this is coming from HIM. Yet there are these people that seem to think they can force him to run. Heck, I can't even force him to return my emails or fix his LPAC website when I offer to do it for FREE!

We are moving in a hundred different directions and it doesn't really seem like a Movement at all. And this is the biggest criticism I have with Ron Paul's campaign strategy. Bottom up Movements NEVER EVER EVER work. Even when our own country revolted, it was our leaders that launched the Revolutionary War and everyone else followed.

Ron Paul is a brilliant man and a beacon of light for liberty and truth, but he really doesn't know how to run an effective National Campaign. But that is ok, we can't expect him to know everything. The problem is that he never hired the professionals that DO know how to run a National Campaign and win.

We need to organize, gather information, establish a massive Grassroots infrastructure with central leadership that doesn't control but at least provides strategic direction.

So THAT is the other option you have.

[jason43]

The short term should be getting candidates into the 30 or so retiring house seats the republicans are going to lose.

The long term should be getting another candidate into the lineup for 2012.

[TruthAtLast]

The short term should be getting candidates into the 30 or so retiring house seats the republicans are going to lose.

The long term should be getting another candidate into the lineup for 2012.

amen +1,000,000

[mketcher]

The short term should be getting candidates into the 30 or so retiring house seats the republicans are going to lose.

The long term should be getting another candidate into the lineup for 2012.

Yes, but as a presidential candidate, he could have a huge impact, even if he only got 5% of the vote. I think he could get more. If the economy continues to go to hell, he could get a lot more, because neither McCain, Hillary, or Obama are strong on economics.

But I digress. By running Third Party, he threatens to deny McCain (or whatever Republican ends up running) the presidency. The Republican establishment is terrified of Ron Paul. He can't announce his exact strategy right now. He needs to keep them terrified, so they don't know what he's going to do. By running Third party, he would also push the Republicans further towards his position. They would have to adopt more constitutionalist rhetoric and promises and platforms.

[Bro.Butch]

Yes, but as a presidential candidate, he could have a huge impact, even if he only got 5% of the vote. I think he could get more. If the economy continues to go to hell, he could get a lot more, because neither McCain, Hillary, or Obama are strong on economics.

But I digress. By running Third Party, he threatens to deny McCain (or whatever Republican ends up running) the presidency. The Republican establishment is terrified of Ron Paul. He can't announce his exact strategy right now. He needs to keep them terrified, so they don't know what he's going to do. By running Third party, he would also push the Republicans further towards his position. They would have to adopt more constitutionalist rhetoric and promises and platforms.

Friend, I beg to differ on the idea he will "deny" McCain the Presidency, John (BobDole2) McCain will never be POTUS. I believe Ron would actually take more votes from Democratic leaning voters. They are still ready to stop the war, preserve civil liberties, end the torture and straighten out our economy.

McCain at this late date has not even received a majority of his own Party's votes in the primaries. If you pay close attention to these televised events of McCain's there is NO enthusiasm what so ever, and Ron is still drawing more people even though he receives no MSM coverage. Notice how they never show a wide shot of McCain's crowds , Obama is drawing over 20.000 and blacked out Ron Paul from 4 to 7,000 enthusiastic FANS. Everyone needs to realize the "FIX" is on and has been from the start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQCtn2jVwkQ&feature=related
Torture is Terror-Spread The Message

[mketcher]

Friend, I beg to differ on the idea he will "deny" McCain the Presidency, John (BobDole2) McCain will never be POTUS. I believe Ron would actually take more votes from Democratic leaning voters. They are still ready to stop the war, preserve civil liberties, end the torture and straighten out our economy.

McCain at this late date has not even received a majority of his own Party's votes in the primaries. If you pay close attention to these televised events of McCain's there is NO enthusiasm what so ever, and Ron is still drawing more people even though he receives no MSM coverage. Notice how they never show a wide shot of McCain's crowds , Obama is drawing over 20.000 and blacked out Ron Paul from 4 to 7,000 enthusiastic FANS. Everyone needs to realize the "FIX" is on and has been from the start.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XQCtn2jVwkQ&feature=related
Torture is Terror-Spread The Message

Many conservatives, libertarian Republicans, and evangelical Republicans hate McCain. They have nowhere else to go besides Ron Paul in a Third Party. Dissatisfied Democrats can go to either Nader or Paul -- and some will undoubtedly go to each. At any rate, it doesn't so much matter whether or not Ron Paul has the ability to deny the Republicans the presidency. They're still terrified, because they [I]believe[I] that he has the power to deny them the presidency. Whether he actually does or not is a moot point -- we won't know that for sure until the election is over.