Paul-Barr Meeting

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I've heard from several sources now that there were talks on Tuesday between Bob Barr and Ron Paul. To me, this can almost certainly only mean one of two things:

1. Ron Paul and Bob Barr are going to announce an independent ticket together.

OR

2. Ron Paul is going to continue the movement and endorse a Bob Barr third party/independent run for President.

The details should be known to the rest of the world shortly, possibly through the Third Party Watch blog.

What do others think went down?

[mtmedlin]

I wouldnt be suprised at choice number 2. I also would be inclined to support it.

[acptulsa]

I wouldn't be surprised by, and will heartily support, either possibility.

[SteveMartin]

I spoke to Bob Barr last week and urged him to consider an Independent run with RP. He seemed excited about the idea. Then, I called him on Tuesday morning, and he said he was meeting with RP at 5:30 PM. I asked him to wait until we did some more organizing from the grassroots to urge RP to accept before pushing the idea too hard, and he said he would "just go in and listen."

He said he would call me Wednesday, but he didn't. I reached his secretary yesterday who said he was in a hearing but that he told her to tell me he would call last night or today...

I heard a rumor (totally unsubstantiated) that the meeting went OK, and that "Paul would endorse Barr." Now we wait to find out if that is true or not.

Last night's "hints" that RP may be dropping out of the Republican race give me some hope that Bob Barr convinced him, but it is only a hope.

I will report back if I do hear more from BB today that he will permit me to post...

[speciallyblend]

i would support barr if ron paul endorsed him but i want ron paul at least to be a vp;) or otherway around. I will send 100 bucks a month of money i dont have if that happens;)

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Also hoping Ron Paul is at least being swayed into being somewhere on the ticket with Barr. One would think he'd be at least thinking about it, why else would he be pulling up stakes and suspending the GOP run?

[limequat]

What's the group's reading on Barr?

Seems like he's had a bit of a coming-to-Jesus since leaving office, but had exercised poor judgement while a representative. The guy clearly has skeletons in his closet. While I'd love to see a viable liberty-minded candidate, this guy just doesn't have the cred of Ron Paul.

[speciallyblend]

if ron paul doesnt run,i hope he can return my money i donated. I gave money for a run for 2008 for president. If ron drops out and doesnt run as a vp or prez candidate .then i will remove the R from my name quicker then a refresh button.

[SteveMartin]

Bob Barr isn't perfect, but he is better than 95% of what we've had representing the people in Washington over the past 20 years.

In the late 90's and forward until 2003, you could always count on 2 guys to vote the right way---Barr and Paul (among the Republicans in the House), and sometimes Dennis would come over and join them.

[uncollapse]

Paul/Barr ticket .... sounds like an excellent idea!

[mtmedlin]

What's the group's reading on Barr?

Seems like he's had a bit of a coming-to-Jesus since leaving office, but had exercised poor judgement while a representative. The guy clearly has skeletons in his closet. While I'd love to see a viable liberty-minded candidate, this guy just doesn't have the cred of Ron Paul.

A few skeletons but doesnt have a graveyard.

[Richie]

Sign the petition!

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

[280Z28]

Ron Paul could stay in the Rep. Party, trying to get the Rep. nomination, while Bob starts an indy run. The message continues, and we get a chance at the WH while Paul doesn't lose his seat in Congress.

Can Ron run as VP for Barr and for Congress at the same time? He can't for President, but is it different for VP?

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Ron Paul could stay in the Rep. Party, trying to get the Rep. nomination, while Bob starts an indy run. The message continues, and we get a chance at the WH while Paul doesn't lose his seat in Congress.

Can Ron run as VP for Barr and for Congress at the same time? He can't for President, but is it different for VP?

Again, Ron Paul doesn't automatically forfeit his seat by running for President as an independent. He could run as either President or VP with Barr, with few problems. Even the "sore loser" laws are usually overturned as unconstitutional, and are only in four states anyway.

All the GOP could do is expel him from the party, but so what? Ron Paul will almost certainly be unopposed in November, and even if he wasn't, there's very little to worry about when he wins by 70% margins against no-name opponents.

[BuddyRey]

Paul/Goldwater ticket sounds even better to me. Paul needs a household name to be on his third party ticket and the Goldwater name carries a lot of weight in the south. I've asked a few about Barr and no one has heard of him. Most people do not stay as informed as we do, unfortunately. The Goldwater name is like having Reagan on your ticket.

My part of the south hates McCain and ready to abandon the republican party if given a good alternative.

Come on Paul, don't let us down. I'm ready for the third party fight.

[Andrew76]

I've heard from several sources now that there were talks on Tuesday between Bob Barr and Ron Paul. To me, this can almost certainly only mean one of two things:

1. Ron Paul and Bob Barr are going to announce an independent ticket together.

OR

2. Ron Paul is going to continue the movement and endorse a Bob Barr third party/independent run for President.

The details should be known to the rest of the world shortly, possibly through the Third Party Watch blog.

What do others think went down?

Let's hope Ron's been convinced to run third party. Bob Barr... who? My point being, we just spent the last year and tens of millions of dollars getting Ron Paul's name and message out there. Us supporting a Barr independent run would be the ulimate in futility, and I myself do not support the idea, unless it's a Ron Paul/Bob Barr (as v.p.) ticket.

And some more thoughts on the matter...

Ron Pauls going independent far outweigh the negatives.

I mean seriously, what are the negatives?
1) he may lose
2) he might/would be blamed for a democratic win
3) it will be hard and/or expensive
4) if he wins, he gives up his congressional seat
5) the GOP may fuss a bit and say, "see we told you he wasn't a republican!"

my responses...
1) he may win.
2) John McCain is going to get absolutely crushed in the election.
3) who said this was going to be easy? So, you leave now because it's gonna get difficult?
4) I think I'd be fine with that tradeoff!
5) The GOP isn't republican anymore. They've made themselves obsolete and irrelevant, nevermind the fact that they've almost entirely sold out to the huge government, neocon empire of war and endless spending.

Positives for going indie...
1) He may win
2) The message will continue to be delivered to an American audience that needs it badly.
3) It would very likely re-energize his campaign, generate new recruits, new interest, new money.
4) Anything to help break up the two party system is a wonderful idea
5) It would be HUGE news. Huge.
6) Everyone loves an underdog.
7) There's still a massive grassroots network who'd be ready and willing to work hard IF he announced he was going independent.
8) the message will continue to get out
9) the message will continue to get out
10) the messsage will continue to get out...

etc.

[WilliamC]

I will support Ron Paul whatever he decides to do, but I'm hoping he is NOT going to relinquish his house seat.

When McCain loses to Clinton/Obama in November the Republicans will need someone to rally around, someone to be their standard bearer.

Ron Paul should be that someone.

But he can still give his endorsement to Bob Barr over John McCain and stay in the Party, and honestly claim he is not betraying Republican Party principles but supporting them since McCain is the Conservative traitor.

[libertythor]

What's the group's reading on Barr?

Seems like he's had a bit of a coming-to-Jesus since leaving office, but had exercised poor judgement while a representative. The guy clearly has skeletons in his closet. While I'd love to see a viable liberty-minded candidate, this guy just doesn't have the cred of Ron Paul.

Asking for group think? :confused:


Well, I see him as a former neocon who has moved on over to the side of freedom. I would vote for him in November, even if Paul wasn't with him....over Wayne Root.

[libertythor]

Same here. That is why it has to be independent.


I will support Ron Paul whatever he decides to do, but I'm hoping he is NOT going to relinquish his house seat.

When McCain loses to Clinton/Obama in November the Republicans will need someone to rally around, someone to be their standard bearer.

Ron Paul should be that someone.

But he can still give his endorsement to Bob Barr over John McCain and stay in the Party, and honestly claim he is not betraying Republican Party principles but supporting them since McCain is the Conservative traitor.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I will support Ron Paul whatever he decides to do, but I'm hoping he is NOT going to relinquish his house seat.

When McCain loses to Clinton/Obama in November the Republicans will need someone to rally around, someone to be their standard bearer.

Ron Paul should be that someone.

But he can still give his endorsement to Bob Barr over John McCain and stay in the Party, and honestly claim he is not betraying Republican Party principles but supporting them since McCain is the Conservative traitor.

Thinking they will come to Ron Paul after a McCain loss is crazy. They would just trump it up to any number of reasons for McCain's loss--too old, too many "brainwashed" liberals, liberal media, etc. Besides, the war mongers and apocalyptic evangelical Huck types aren't going anywhere. Where would they go? The GOP is their party. They will just wring their hands, still call Paul and his supporters deranged kooks, and then proceed to carry on as they always have. I don't believe there are enough true conservatives and libertarians even left in the party to outweigh the drooling neo-cons.

The only choice to carry this thing on is an independent run. And as it's been pointed out before, there is absolutely no threat to Ron Paul's House seat. He isn't even opposed now. Even if the GOP kicked him out and ran Peden again, he would easily win re-election to the House as an independent if he doesn't win the Presidency. Incumbency is a mighty advantage.

[SteveMartin]

GO INDEPENDENT, RON!!!!

Save your nation, and your legacy forever in our nation's history books.

[georgiaboy]

A Barr run is a great idea, though in the end, I think the effect will only be Perot-esque, ie split the Republican vote. Those in the know will vote for him. The party hacks will tow the line for McCain.

Barr already has name recognition in the party, the media, and the public at large.

Many establishment, conservative, thinking Republicans know and still like him.

These same Republicans are looking for a choice other than McCain to embrace.

Barr can be that person.

Barr will bring us constitution lovers along.

In order to bring the establishment Republicans along, he'll need to be careful about how he uses the Ron Paul factor - many have dissed Paul this year, and would have a hard time embracing 'just another crazy Ron Paul wannabe'. I'd recommend he put out the political face of distancing himself somewhat from the Ron Paul message so he doesn't get put in the same camp as all us 'whackos', while still billing himself as a true conservative. That way, he can secure a broad enough cross-section to make an impact on the future direction of the party.

Of course, due to the split vote, he probably won't win the general, so we're pretty much guaranteed a Democrat win in November. However, the signal could be clearly sent to the party to help move things in the right (pun intended) direction.

georgiaboy

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

The funny thing is that Perot actually could've won. He was polling ahead of Bill Clinton in the summer of '92. Then he did a stupid thing: he DROPPED OUT of the race for a month, and re-entered. After this, he was never viewed as fully reliable again.

He still ended up exceeding expectations late in the campaign. He was only polling around 10% in October, and yet, ended up double that in the election.

It's also a myth that Perot cost Bush I his re-election in 1992. Studies have shown that the Perot voter was almost evenly split between the two parties, Republicans and Democrats and the apathetic. Perot's Dem and Rep voters were probably more like 60% Republican and 40% Democrat, but it's obvious that given how far Bush was trailing behind, he still wouldn't have won with those extra Republican voters.

[WilliamC]

The funny thing is that Perot actually could've won. He was polling ahead of Bill Clinton in the summer of '92. Then he did a stupid thing: he DROPPED OUT of the race for a month, and re-entered. After this, he was never viewed as fully reliable again.

He still ended up exceeding expectations late in the campaign. He was only polling around 10% in October, and yet, ended up double that in the election.

It's also a myth that Perot cost Bush I his re-election in 1992. Studies have shown that the Perot voter was almost evenly split between the two parties, Republicans and Democrats and the apathetic. Perot's Dem and Rep voters were probably more like 60% Republican and 40% Democrat, but it's obvious that given how far Bush was trailing behind, he still wouldn't have won with those extra Republican voters.

Yes but why did Perot drop out?

If I recall he claimed that there were death threats made against his family.

At the time I remember thinking he must be a bit "out there" but in retrospect I think he was absolutely right, the powers-that-be told him exactly what would happen if he had the audacity to get himself elected President against their wishes.

Sometimes I wonder if Ron Paul has been the object of such tactics as well.

[SteveMartin]

//

[SteveMartin]

Just talked with someone close to RP's Chief of Staff. RP is considering what to do right now.

We need to give him a poll showing overwhelming support for an independent run.

I go to start it. Please sign it and passit around the internet!

It will be titled: Ron Paul Looking to Hear from His Supporters: Please vote now!

[hawks4ronpaul]

Barr has baggage from the Gingrich-era Clinton impeachment.

Someone recently attacked someone for "Ken Starr" politics.

A Barr-Clinton VP debate would be strange.




http://hawks4ronpaul.blogspot.com/

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Just talked with someone close to RP's Chief of Staff. RP is considering what to do right now.

We need to give him a poll showing overwhelming support for an independent run.

I go to start it. Please sign it and passit around the internet!

It will be titled: Ron Paul Looking to Hear from His Supporters: Please vote now!

Great news! Spread the word, Steve!

Is this what you heard from Barr's office, or are you still waiting for that today?

[yongrel]

Ron Paul has said himself that he is not going to run as an independent.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Yes but why did Perot drop out?

If I recall he claimed that there were death threats made against his family.

At the time I remember thinking he must be a bit "out there" but in retrospect I think he was absolutely right, the powers-that-be told him exactly what would happen if he had the audacity to get himself elected President against their wishes.

Sometimes I wonder if Ron Paul has been the object of such tactics as well.

No one really knows. I suppose it's possible there are death threats. But then again, there's always some reasonable doubt. I liked Perot, but it's hard to deny he was a bit quirky.

I believe the reason Perot himself gave is that he didn't want Republican operatives disrupting his daughter's wedding. Which is just bizarre...unless it was code, as you suggest, for a death threat again his daughter or something. Who knows...

As an aside, I also wonder the same about Ron Paul. I'd like to think it hasn't gotten to that point (yet), and perhaps it isn't, since he still hasn't completely dropped from the GOP contest and is trying to decide what to do with regards to an independent run. Unfortunately, it could be a threat in the future. Ron Paul's weakness would be death threats made against any member of his large, closely knit family.

[SteveMartin]

No he didn't, Yongrel. He said he wouldn't run 3rd party. His brother Wayne told me last week that he had never said he "wouldn't" just that he wouldn't seek it, unless his supporters urged it upon him.

TIME TO START URGING BOYS AND GIRLS!!!

Actually, the petition is already up...I'll get the title in a second, but it's been put up already by someone else. Spread the word!!!!

No, nothing from Barr yet.

The rumor came from someone close to Tom Lizardo himself. I just spoke to this person. 100% reliable...

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Ron Paul has said himself that he is not going to run as an independent.

Wrong. He has always said he has "no plans."

The message after Super Tuesday in Feb. said there would be no THIRD PARTY run. There's a difference. But even besides the fact, I don't believe the message was written by Ron Paul himself. There's no way he would've quoted Trotsky. It was obviously ghost written by some campaign staffer.

The ultimate proof is his meeting with Bob Barr, which happened Tuesday. Why would he even be meeting with Barr, knowing that Barr is trying to convince him to be a President or VP on a ticket with him, if he were really that firm?

[limequat]

Two thoughts:

An independent run would undermine phase 2, which is the take over of the GOP. I'm sure this could be worked around with some fast talking: "I'm not leaving my party, my party left me. I still hope to reform the party through grassroots, blah, blah."

There is still work to be done on the current campaign.
1) Identifying and cataloging RP voters
2) Winning delegates
3) Influencing the convention

Can we run two campaigns at once?

[SteveMartin]

PLEASE, EVERYONE!!! GO VOTE IN THE POLL NOW!!! Spread it to all the other message boards. Get this done today, and I will call RP.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126930

Title: POLL: Draft Ron Paul. Indy run? I got....

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Two thoughts:

An independent run would undermine phase 2, which is the take over of the GOP. I'm sure this could be worked around with some fast talking: "I'm not leaving my party, my party left me. I still hope to reform the party through grassroots, blah, blah."

There is still work to be done on the current campaign.
1) Identifying and cataloging RP voters
2) Winning delegates
3) Influencing the convention

Can we run two campaigns at once?

Yes we can. The GOP measures can be left up to those who want to do it from the grassroots. Personally, it seems like a total lost cause. How would a mere 30-70 Ron Paul delegates influence hundreds of warmongering idiot ones anyway? You might get them on a few key points, like tax relief and gun rights. But both of those things are something the Fred Thompson and Huckabee delegates will be lobbying for anyway.

Standing as an anti-war voice or demanding the protection of our civil liberties will fall on almost totally deaf ears amongst the other idiots serving as delegates from Romney, McCain, Huckabee, and Thompson.

[georgiaboy]

Ron Paul has said himself that he is not going to run as an independent.

I also don't see Ron running as an independent. Steve mentioned Ron is trying to figure out what to do right now. I think that means supporting, either overtly or covertly, another conservative for an independent or 3p run.

From what I can tell about Ron, when he says his campaign is winding down, he means it. When he says the conventional road to the nomination is not in reach, he means it. When he says no 3rd party, he means it.

georgiaboy

[SteveMartin]

The message after Super Tuesday in Feb. said there would be no THIRD PARTY run. There's a difference. But even besides the fact, I don't believe the message was written by Ron Paul himself. There's no way he would've quoted Trotsky. It was obviously ghost written by some campaign staffer.

Absolutely true. Carol Paul told me herself he never wrote that, and that he would come out with a video to refute it, and he did.

[colecrowe]

Great point. McCain and all the neo-con pundits said the reason they lost so horribly in 2006 was because of earmarks, spending, bridge to nowhere--that it had absolutely nothing to do with the Iraq war.


Thinking they will come to Ron Paul after a McCain loss is crazy. They would just trump it up to any number of reasons for McCain's loss--too old, too many "brainwashed" liberals, liberal media, etc. Besides, the war mongers and apocalyptic evangelical Huck types aren't going anywhere. Where would they go? The GOP is their party. They will just wring their hands, still call Paul and his supporters deranged kooks, and then proceed to carry on as they always have. I don't believe there are enough true conservatives and libertarians even left in the party to outweigh the drooling neo-cons.

The only choice to carry this thing on is an independent run. And as it's been pointed out before, there is absolutely no threat to Ron Paul's House seat. He isn't even opposed now. Even if the GOP kicked him out and ran Peden again, he would easily win re-election to the House as an independent if he doesn't win the Presidency. Incumbency is a mighty advantage.

[Revolution9]

What's the group's reading on Barr?

Seems like he's had a bit of a coming-to-Jesus since leaving office, but had exercised poor judgement while a representative. The guy clearly has skeletons in his closet. While I'd love to see a viable liberty-minded candidate, this guy just doesn't have the cred of Ron Paul.

Bob Barr wrote a column here in Atlanta for Creative Loafing..a very liberal free paper with huge circulation. Hs columns were always loaded with common sense and many who think they are liberals agreed with the columns premises. He seems to have bedrock core of liberty oriented and American principles.

Best
Randy

[colecrowe]

Thanks for the good info. --also, he sounds like a really good speaker (he introduced Ron Paul at CPAC) that would be good for a Paul campaign for obvious reasons, and he would blow hillary and mccain out of the water.


Bob Barr wrote a column here in Atlanta for Creative Loafing..a very liberal free paper with huge circulation. Hs columns were always loaded with common sense and many who think they are liberals agreed with the columns premises. He seems to have bedrock core of liberty oriented and American principles.

Best
Randy

[SteveMartin]

HAVE YOU ALL SIGNED THE PETITION??

Please post also what you have done to spread the word about the petition.

[Revolution9]

The funny thing is that Perot actually could've won. He was polling ahead of Bill Clinton in the summer of '92. Then he did a stupid thing: he DROPPED OUT of the race for a month, and re-entered. After this, he was never viewed as fully reliable again.

He was the target of a Mossad op run out the JWV.org sanctum. They had maneuvered his daughter into bed with a Mossad female and gotten pics. They were shown to him and told they would go public. So he dropped back enough they did not release the pics. These same clowns got nailed here in june for trying to steal databases of emails under cover of an official RP support mechanism.

Best Regards
Randy

[Shed]

If you think Ron Paul is going to go back on his word and commit political suicide on a new presidential campaign that has zero chance of going anywhere, you're in real denial.

[Richie]

http://www.bobbarr2008.com/

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

If you think Ron Paul is going to go back on his word and commit political suicide on a new presidential campaign that has zero chance of going anywhere, you're in real denial.

When did he ever give his word that he wouldn't run independent? He has always said "no plans to do that." Not that he wouldn't ever do it.

The message saying no third party run was not written by Ron Paul himself. And even then, it said third party, not independent.

[limequat]

He was the target of a Mossad op run out the JWV.org sanctum. They had maneuvered his daughter into bed with a Mossad female and gotten pics. They were shown to him and told they would go public. So he dropped back enough they did not release the pics. These same clowns got nailed here in june for trying to steal databases of emails under cover of an official RP support mechanism.

Best Regards
Randy

Link?

[Shed]

When did he ever give his word that he wouldn't run independent? He has always said "no plans to do that." Not that he wouldn't ever do it.

The message saying no third party run was not written by Ron Paul himself. And even then, it said third party, not independent.

That's only semantics. His message has been that practical political change can only be accomplished by setting the message of one or other major party.

[Revolution9]

Link?

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=11304&highlight=Tom+Stevens#post11304

Is the start. I cannot find the rest on a short search. I found an archived American Mafia article that linked Dr Tom Stevens to murder for hire, drug running and political blackmail. Coupled to that I remember these clowns from the Limelight in NYC icrca 1981. They were running a underage prostitution ring with huge drug soaked parties and the elite of NYC attending. Gary Coplin, a conference call coordinator for the Jewish War Veterans, who incidentally scuttled the USS Liberty investigations, had a gay teen sex pics site for collecting the dumps f pics. they then get ahold of databases of leaders and cross reference the IP's and domains to get matches. they then use the posted pcs top blackmail the parents into conpliance. This is the same crew that skewered Perot. Being the forum loudmouth I was fed info from an anonymous source on how to find the archived but removed from the web article on Tom Stevens. A google search turned up the JWV-Gary Coplin connection. The rest was simple connect the dots. And then posting the warnings and links.

This is a further heads up to those who scoff at intel ops infiltration on the boards.

edit : http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_4.html

The above article has been restored to the web.

Best
randy
RPF Intel Desk

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Please run Ron Paul. I need someone decent to vote for.

Who else is there? McCain, Clinton or Obama? Nader? Whatever obscure unheard of with 1% national name recognition the libertarian and constitution parties put up? A green party member?!

We need Ron Paul now.

[Korey Kaczynski]

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=11304&highlight=Tom+Stevens#post11304

Is the start. I cannot find the rest on a short search. I found an archived American Mafia article that linked Dr Tom Stevens to murder for hire, drug running and political blackmail. Coupled to that I remember these clowns from the Limelight in NYC icrca 1981. They were running a underage prostitution ring with huge drug soaked parties and the elite of NYC attending. Gary Coplin, a conference call coordinator for the Jewish War Veterans, who incidentally scuttled the USS Liberty investigations, had a gay teen sex pics site for collecting the dumps f pics. they then get ahold of databases of leaders and cross reference the IP's and domains to get matches. they then use the posted pcs top blackmail the parents into conpliance. This is the same crew that skewered Perot. Being the forum loudmouth I was fed info from an anonymous source on how to find the archived but removed from the web article on Tom Stevens. A google search turned up the JWV-Gary Coplin connection. The rest was simple connect the dots. And then posting the warnings and links.

This is a further heads up to those who scoff at intel ops infiltration on the boards.

edit : http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_4.html

The above article has been restored to the web.

Best
randy
RPF Intel Desk

edit: ---nevermind--

[Revolution9]

Out of curiousity, what is your name "Revolution9" a reference to?

A collage by The Beatles (hold that line..block that kick) and the dynamic of nine being a rollover number and this being the Revolution of the rollover. Here is a further link on Stevens
http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_344.html

He IS AN Operator.

Best
Randy

[mtmedlin]

A collage by The Beatles (hold that line..block that kick) and the dynamic of nine being a rollover number and this being the Revolution of the rollover. Here is a further link on Stevens
http://www.americanmafia.com/Feature_Articles_344.html

He IS AN Operator.

Best
Randy

Ok but lets get back to the important matter. Perots daughter was in bed with another chick and there are pictures????? :eek:

[Join The Paul Side]

Ron Paul has said himself that he is not going to run as an independent.


No you twit. He said he wasn't going to run Third Party. He never said he wouldn't run Independent.

[Revolution9]

Ok but lets get back to the important matter. Perots daughter was in bed with another chick and there are pictures????? :eek:

Yup.. Bet they still exist in some Mossad file somewhere.

Randy

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Once again posting this poll thread. Please vote on whether or not you want Ron Paul to run as an independent here:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?p=1334121&posted=1#post1334121

[Join The Paul Side]

To those out there that believe we have to work on taking over the GOP, you all are looking at a very long term goal. I don't see how supporting a Ron Paul Indy run for the next 8 months will ruin your future plans for the GOP takeover, which is going to take you people years to do by the way.

We have one shot for Ron Paul and it's in 2008. No guarantees for 2012. You can always resume your GOP ambitions after November. Just something for yall to think about. ;)

[SteveMartin]

JTPS,

Excellent point! I hadn't thought of using that, but if you don't mind, I will now!

[hotbrownsauce]

I think if Paul ran with Barr there would be an even stronger push to get Paul in.
If Barr ran and Paul was VP then Ron Paul could set the stage for a presidential run in the future.

[RonPaulFanInGA]

Just talked with someone close to RP's Chief of Staff. RP is considering what to do right now.


It's been about three hours. Anything?

[rockandrollsouls]

He better consider that he's 2 people from the whitehouse! The dems still don't have a nominee and Ron could start working on winning them over!!

[naga_warrior]

Those of you that are so focused on taking over the GOP I think you are missing a great deal in this entire thing. Ron Paul isn't attracting just Republicans. He is attracting all kinds of people. Not just because of his ideas, but because of how truthful he is. He is representing change, not only by his ideas, but by his motives. Personally I lean toward republican ideas, but I am not a republican. And I think that purely focusing on fixing the GOP is a waste of what has come from this. Not everyone that supports Ron Paul is a republican and I think that by focusing purely on the republican party you are alienating those people. Not everyone likes all of his ideas. But they in general can agree on his main ideas. Not necessarily the republican platform he stands for.

Now for my next point. I, like many of you, despise political parties. So, why again do we want to JUST rebuild the GOP? So we can once again have 2 strong parties? Even if you move the GOP back to what it stands for, guess what? Give it a little time and we will be back in the same position that we are currently in. I am young, and so I don't have the knowledge of all of you, but hasn't this been happening for a long time now? And there is always something that helps fix the current issues at hand, but it isn't forever. The only way to truly fix the issues at hand is to stop the 2 party system. But by propping up the same party that has absolutely ignored Ron Paul, is that really going to be for the better. Further enabling the 2 party system when there is a possibility to end the 2 party system forever. Sure it is a long shot, but isn't that shot worth taking?

Don't get me wrong. Taking over the GOP and fixing our problems short term is better then nothing. But I just don't agree that it should be the top priority.

[prlgrl]

Those of you that are so focused on taking over the GOP I think you are missing a great deal in this entire thing. Ron Paul isn't attracting just Republicans. He is attracting all kinds of people. Not just because of his ideas, but because of how truthful he is. He is representing change, not only by his ideas, but by his motives. Personally I lean toward republican ideas, but I am not a republican. And I think that purely focusing on fixing the GOP is a waste of what has come from this. Not everyone that supports Ron Paul is a republican and I think that by focusing purely on the republican party you are alienating those people. Not everyone likes all of his ideas. But they in general can agree on his main ideas. Not necessarily the republican platform he stands for.

Now for my next point. I, like many of you, despise political parties. So, why again do we want to JUST rebuild the GOP? So we can once again have 2 strong parties? Even if you move the GOP back to what it stands for, guess what? Give it a little time and we will be back in the same position that we are currently in. I am young, and so I don't have the knowledge of all of you, but hasn't this been happening for a long time now? And there is always something that helps fix the current issues at hand, but it isn't forever. The only way to truly fix the issues at hand is to stop the 2 party system. But by propping up the same party that has absolutely ignored Ron Paul, is that really going to be for the better. Further enabling the 2 party system when there is a possibility to end the 2 party system forever. Sure it is a long shot, but isn't that shot worth taking?

Don't get me wrong. Taking over the GOP and fixing our problems short term is better then nothing. But I just don't agree that it should be the top priority.

+1000

[SteveMartin]

+5000

[Banana]

Naga Warrior,

I do despise political parties, but ultimately they're there right now. My rationale for rebuilding GOP is this: By taking over the party, we make it much more friendlier toward other liberty candidates and will make their campaigns easier. It is my hope that we reach the critical mass to not just reform the party but move past two party system, but we need enough like minded people in positions to make this even possible.

It's easy to say, "Screw it. The system is against me, so I'll work outside it.", but the reality is that the system has a lock in the power balance and will oppose any outside influence. Infiltrating that system is, IMO, the best way to overturn the system and replace it with something much more positive and more open to everyone.

[naga_warrior]

Naga Warrior,

I do despise political parties, but ultimately they're there right now. My rationale for rebuilding GOP is this: By taking over the party, we make it much more friendlier toward other liberty candidates and will make their campaigns easier. It is my hope that we reach the critical mass to not just reform the party but move past two party system, but we need enough like minded people in positions to make this even possible.

It's easy to say, "Screw it. The system is against me, so I'll work outside it.", but the reality is that the system has a lock in the power balance and will oppose any outside influence. Infiltrating that system is, IMO, the best way to overturn the system and replace it with something much more positive and more open to everyone.


That is a fair point of view, but I would have to disagree with it. It is just my personal opinion, that it isn't going to work. As is seen on these forums, liberty minded people are being helped along by the revolution. Which is GREAT. But at the same time, if that is us in power, and we have the power to push candidates that we like, it is going to turn into its own political party(Which would be the republican party? So still 2 party system). Now if we did the same thing from outside, no matter how hard it is, that would create a 3rd party, and I believe once there is at least 3 major parties, more parties will follow.

Sadly, I wish everyone in the world was as honest as Ron Paul. But they aren't. When given power, they like the feel of it. If the revolution is successful in rebuilding the republican party, then I REALLY hope that I am wrong.

I really do. It is just that the two party system takes away any checks and balances that the founding fathers put into our government. If the people vote purely based on party, then there is no checks and balances as seen in our current government. (It really doesn't help that there isn't really 2 parties right now, there is 1 party, with the illusion of 2)

And it isn't just saying work out side it. But we are at a point where we COULD make a difference. A difference can mean several things. Even if Ron Paul doesn't win having a strong 3rd party showing can really help. Show the people, that a third party CAN win. No one will vote 3rd party because "they cant win". Which is dumb, but it is what has come of our nation. So just a good third party showing this year, which conditions are prime for. Note when I say third party, it is same thing as independent. I just mean someone that is no running under the 2 main parties.

[runderwo]

If the people vote purely based on party, then there is no checks and balances as seen in our current government.

Really the problem here is ignorance just as much as bipartisan hegemony. Work within the system to change it, and educate people while you are doing it. Throwing rocks at the system from the outside will continue to have the same results it has always had.

[Flirple]

What's the group's reading on Barr?

Seems like he's had a bit of a coming-to-Jesus since leaving office, but had exercised poor judgement while a representative. The guy clearly has skeletons in his closet. While I'd love to see a viable liberty-minded candidate, this guy just doesn't have the cred of Ron Paul.

I think what you said is a pretty fair assessment of Barr. In a nutshell he is a watered down version of RP without the ironclad voting record spanning decades.

But on the other hand, that might be what makes him more palatable to conservatives and the media. I think he would get a lot of attention from people who don't like McCain as the GOP nominee.

I think Barr should absolutely do it and Ron should endorse him and campaign on his behalf. This will give Ron an excuse to continue to travel around the country and speak at large rallies to keep the rEVOLution stoked and growing for the long term while also helping Barr's campaign in the short term.

Here is an episode of Penn & Teller's Showtime show "Bullshit!" where they are talking about (in P&T's "irreverent" way) the patriot act and Big Brother surveillance and Bob Barr is used intermittently throughout it. He talks about how and why he voted for the patriot act and why he now regrets it.

Warning: not safe for work because of very strong language, nudity, and sexual content:

Part 1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rtt_f94ywRg (1:45-3:50)

Part 2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UlXpNId5-WY&feature=related (3:20, 5:25, 7:38)

Part 3: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uieFDTyB3GM&feature=related (5:06)