POLL: Draft Ron Paul, indy run? I got 140 signatures today...

[colecrowe]

I got 73 more signatures today (well, my father-in-law and my father got almost half of those).

still 2/3rds in favor! (March 11th at 11:37 est)

Boy I wish we would organize and do something like this (but all over the country)--man we could make some amazing impact! Imagine how much we could spread the message and recruit new people!:

Nader Campaign Asks for Money to Get Petition-Gatherers to New Mexico
Quote:
New Mexico, here we come.

We are planning to send eight road trippers into New Mexico to get Nader/Gonzalez on the ballot there.

They will need to collect 7,000 signatures in two weeks.

Our goal is to raise $10,000 by Wednesday night to fund the New Mexico ballot drive.

If we raise the $10,000 by Wednesday midnight, the road trippers will leave for New Mexico on Thursday morning.

We're looking for 100 donors to give $100 each.

So, become one of the 100 New Mexico pioneers.

Give $100 now and send our young volunteers into New Mexico to secure the ballot for Nader/Gonzalez.

We're moving across the country to give Americans a choice:

for single payer national health insurance,

for cutting the bloated military budget,

for solar energy first, and not nuclear power, and

for reversing U.S. policy in the Middle East.

One state at a time, we will give Americans a voice with the Nader/Gonzalez progressive agenda.

Let's get a good jump in New Mexico.

Please, become a New Mexico pioneer now.

Become one of the New Mexico 100 who give $100 each.

As soon as we hit our $10,000 goal, the road trippers will be on their way.

Thank you for your ongoing and generous support.

Onward

The Nader Team

* * * * *


My head will stay in the clouds.

How else can I continue to talk with all my Ron Paul friends who think he can still win the Republican nomination?

Face it. Head in the clouds is a hallmark of this movement...one way or another.

What? You think stopping the military complex, the big pharma complex, the welfare state, the warfare state , reducing most of the federal government, returning to the Gold Standard etc etc etc. is considered "Grounded" thinking?

Why you guys have a problem with us is beyond me. We have done everything we can to get Ron Paul elected as a Republican. We have not taken any energy, time or money away from that strategy by asking for and talking about a third party run.

Third Parties don't win
Women don't get elected President
Black men don't get elected Predident

All three statements have historical weight behind them. Do you think all of these limitations still exist in this country? or just the statement about third parties?


The Republican Party was the third party when Lincoln won. So, you see, one of those three things has historical precedence.


RonPaulFaninGA,
You also point out that he continues to say he has "no plans." Why not just come out and say NO if he is really intent on absolutely not running as a non-Republican?

I think the most telling thing of all was on his January interview with Tim Russert on Meet the Press. When pressed about the third party question, he said he wanted at least a little "wiggle room" on it! Why would he say that if he had absolutely ruled it out?

In any case, there has to be at least some truth to the rumors floating around. Even if he ruled out a third party run, that does not mean independent too. And more importantly, Ron Paul has been very loyal to his followers, just as we have been loyal to him. If pressed politely by popular demand, he will very likely run independent. Just as it took popular pressure to get him to form an exploratory committee, and then launch into a full fledged Republican run.

We can get Dr. Paul to run! All we need is a little organization to petition and pledge support for an independent run, and channel this demand in an unmistakable way to the campaign and RP himself.



Poll results as of 4:50PM est on March 8:

175 votes

48% (84 people): Great (option 1)
29% (49 people): total of Bad+Horrible+Stupid (options 4, 5, & 6)

71.18% Good (options 1-3) (but 10% of those say he could NEVER win (option 2))
28.83% Bad (options 4-6)

So 61% is pretty darn strong (104 people on this forum so far)--that's people that think it would be a good idea AND that he could win it (options 1 and 3).

27.06% say he could NEVER win (options 2 and 5).

Mods: Please do not move this poll. It can't get properly voted on and discussed if it is moved.

Disclaimer: I have done a TON, financially and otherwise for RP, and I still am: On Saturday at 8AM I am attending our county convention (Douglas County, NV) with many family members and friends who are also delegates and alternates. And we plan on going to state and then being one of 34 and go to St. Paul. So I am not giving up on restoring the GOP. But like the founders, I think we need to get away from parties--that's more important. And I am a real supporter, because I would give thousands more and do tons more if he declared indy.

What is the subtitle of this forum? So all you GOP lovers, stop giving up, and let's get the job done.

Starting tomorrow, I will be setting up booths with Ron Paul literature and also walking around gathering signatures at the local university, community colleges, stores, etc. Also, I can get scores of sigs at my work at the National Guard Armory. I can get scores from family and friends. I can get about 150 from the meetup groups.

I got 140 signatures today, in less than 4 hours--I talked to a ton of people and gave out a big box of RP literature! Most of the people who signed barely knew about Ron Paul (at UNR and in my neighborhood door-to-door). Everybody at my work (the national guard armory) and of course my family and friends and my friends from meetup knew him. 53 people said they would "definitely vote" for him. 21 people said they would definitely donate, and the total came to $5,686 (avg. $406--so big because there's a 1000, a 2000, and a 1776.00). 41 of the signers put Republican as their political party, 39 Democrat, 52 unaffiliated/independent.

If you want the PDF, PM me.

I will upload scans of the petition forms, blacking out column 1 (name & street address) and phone number. Please do the same.

After I make a backup copy, I will be sending these to the campaign. I will post the images online with all personal info blacked out.

to zoom in on image go here, zoom is to top-right of image: http://picasaweb.google.com/croweswedding/RP/photo#5174763392170997490

http://lh4.google.com/croweswedding/R9Bz41sMNvI/AAAAAAAAB6k/BYQ1RmXaw3Y/rppetition.PNG?imgmax=512

You still think something can happen at the convention? Here... The important part of this is: 1. 80% of delegates come from Primary states, 2. more than 80% of those delegates will be pledged, 3. those states are almost all winner-take-all, 4. McCain gets to research and approve (choose basically) all those delegates, 5. Ron Paul only got 5% average in all those primaries, and did not win any of them outright.

The most important part is: 86%-95% of the voters and delegates voted for a pro-war, non-Paul candidate. Even if we won half of Romney's people and half of Huckabee's people (extremely, ridiculously, stupidly unlikely) we would still only have like 30% of the delegates. And 80% of Republicans pro-war (thus very anti-Paul), so they would never vote for Ron Paul--even if McCain died, and Romney and Huckabee--it doesn't matter--they would choose many other people before they would ever choose Ron Paul.

http://lh6.google.com/croweswedding/R9DMGVsMNwI/AAAAAAAAB6s/ra6HT0lnrhI/votes.PNGhttp://lh6.google.com/croweswedding/R9DMGVsMNwI/AAAAAAAAB6s/ra6HT0lnrhI/s800/votes.PNG

[colecrowe]

Absolutely nothing will come from an indy run. You will only have a media blackout worse than it is now, and an even lower chance of winning the general election that now.

Why do you think that? What chance do we have of winning now? The same chance as Kucinich winning the Dem nomination: negative 10 percent.

Ross Perot only spent 64 million on his campaign--a little over 100 million in todays dollars. NOT BILLIONS. So anybody that says so is a fing idiot!--actually they are probably dishonest. And Ron Paul's grassroots is a hundred times more devoted and ready to sacrifice and fight. And the nay-sayers will say "We can't get on the ballots--it's impossible!" Oh, but Ross Perot could? Morons. And Ross Perot was in first place by 9 points (or 8--whatever it was) before he dropped out and said he was threatened (and he still got 19% of the vote--which is great--and Ron Paul is way more amazing than Perot, with way bigger support. And the conditions are similar--there was a recession in '92--now 70% of Americans polled think the economy is bad and likely to get worse, inflation is soaring and gas is still painfully expensive. And then you have the war. The Dems have the war, but they can't get the fiscal, immigration, gun, and school conservatives. The Republicans have what they have (i would argue, not much, with their current candidate, except they would be guaranteed 90% of the pro-war vote (so 30% maybe))--but 72% of Americans want the war to end.

the only reason Ron Paul wouldn't run indy is if he doesn't get overwhelming support for it. That is the only reason he ran in this race. If hundreds of thousands of people write him letters saying they want him to run, they will send money, and get signatures, and canvass, then he will do it. As one of those soldiers that has given to him and worked for his campaign, and knowing that so many of my buddies in Iraq and soon to go back want him to be President so bad, I feel like he will consider that and do it for us troops (and of course for everyone else)--but I mean, it has to mean something incredibly huge that the nation's troops want him as their commander in chief so badly! Please Mr. Paul, please run, please fight, and we will fight with you for a win...

If Ron Paul declared an indy run (after March 4th of course) then he could raise 25 million right off the bat. Everyone I know would give twice what they already have. We could get 200,000 precinct captains and get the 38 states back that are useless to us now in the Repub race because they've already voted, and have 7 months to canvass. Run a couple nationwide amazing infomercials.

Country over party. Remember what all the founders (the good ones) said about parties? Do you think they'd agree that Ron Paul should care more about offending the GOP than fighting for the Constitution, freedom, and government of the people?
* * *


We could have an entire forum, NOT A SUBFORUM OF G.C., devoted to "Independent/Third Party Run"... (I'm definitely for indy...but it doesn't matter for the Forum.)

Then we could give every state a ballot subforum. We could have 1 master "ballot" subforum for talk about meta-ballot issues, like legal challenges, places to find sources about ballot issues, etc.

There could be 1 main subforum for general discussion.

This poll is about numbers, not necessarily percentage. If a ton of us want one, that would be great to know.


March 4, 2008: Paul defeats Peden

March 5, 2008: Paul announces independent run

April 15, 2008: Paul sets new, single-day online fundraising record

June 1, 2008: Paul at 15% in multiple opinion polls

July 31, 2008: Paul, with double-digit support, accepts presidential debates invitation

September 1, 2008: McCain, Clinton and Paul in three-way tie in national polls

October 31, 2008: Race still neck-and-neck-and-neck

November 4, 2008: Paul wins

November 5, 2008: Paul resigns TX-14 U.S. House seat, Peden the favorite to win special election

January 20, 2009: Paul sworn in as 44th U.S. President

Well, you guys can go ahead and not give a crap about your country, but my brother and I are going to Iraq in August, so I actually give a crap, because I'd like Ron Paul to start bringing us home quickly in January, and then he could start sending us after al-Queda and Osama, etc. So, yeah, go ahead and call me "not a real RP supporter" or say that I "don't think he can win"--because I actually think it is incredibly important that he be our president, and I absolutely think he can win as an independent, and I care much, much more about ending the Iraq war, restoring freedom, and saving our economy than I do about the GOP. And how many Americans would love to start to take down the horrible two-party system? Most. (INCLUDING Ron Paul--the stupidest, most incredible thing that people use as an argument against an indy run, is that "Ron Paul has always been a Republican--he's the true Republican--he would lose credibility with the GOP (just forget that he has almost none now because 85% of Repubs are rabidly pro-war and most his primary votes came from new registrees)--blah, blah, blah--BUT they forget, Ron Paul hates the party system, just like the founders did. And what of his undying loyalty to the wonderful GOP? BS: he resigned from the GOP--and he's a lifetime member of the Libertarian Party.


AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

Why do you say that? If so, why are you here and why did you give huge amounts of time and money to Ron Paul? So he could get huge support and win the Presidency. We just went after the completely wrong base, GOP voters, who are 85% die-hard pro Iraq War and pro USA PATRIOT Act.

You just said he won't get any big amount of support--so, do you think he is going to win at the Convention? How is he going to do that, without huge support? And if he did, 70% of Republican voters would still be against him and laugh at the Convention results. But only a complete psychotic retard could ever think Ron Paul will win at the Convention, let alone get to speak at it. Speak at it? He is against the war and against McCain, he said he wouldn't endorse him.

They will not let him speak. And what good will it do. Buchanan spoke at the convention.

Listen, people are constantly asking me, "When is Ron Paul going to announce that he is running independent?" They are desperate for it.


If you want Ron Paul to run for 3rd party then you are unfaithful and coward!

I'm so tired of this crap!

If you don't want Ron Paul to run indy, then you don't want what's best for this country. If you don't think he can win, then you are being willfully blind, and contradicting what you thought for so long: it was going to be extremely, awesomely tough for him to win the Nomination considering that 85% of GOP voters were for the war, but you supported him then, and you thought he could win it, and win the general if he got it.

And, by the way, how about you go join the military and join me and all those troops that were trying their hardest to send a message to Ron Paul and the country by donating overwhelmingly to him. Aholes.

I have given so much to Ron Paul, but I also have hope that he will win the white house... even if it means going iNDY, which I think is, by far, the best option.

You want me to put up or shut up, well then here (this is besides the over 300 cold calls and 200 houses I've canvassed, plus more crap--this doesn't count the $100 for the MLK money bomb, the $51 for the Anniversary money bomb, the 250 for the danged blimp, the 250 for something else I don't even remember now, plus 100 here and another 100 there, plus about 75 for my meetup collection baskets!):

this doesn't include another 100 and 100 for his congressional seat

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=crowe&fname=justin&search=Search
Donor Contribution Address
Justin Crowe

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Soldier (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Soldier)
Nevada Army National Guard (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Nevada+Army+National+Guard)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$752
2572 HEYBOURNE RD (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=2572+HEYBOURNE+RD&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV
Here's my wife: $201

Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Army Spouse (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Army+Spouse)
Army Spouse (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Army+Spouse)


Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Retired, Veteran (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Retired%2C+Veteran)
US Army Veteran, WWII (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=US+Army+Veteran%2C+WWII)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$1,776
2572 HEYBOURNE RD (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=2572+HEYBOURNE+RD&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV
Here's my father in law:

Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Veteran (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Veteran)
Veteran Army National Guard (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Veteran+Army+National+Guard)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$201
1401 DOWNS DR (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=1401+DOWNS+DR&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV

My dad's doesn't show up, even though he gave 100.

[StandTall]

I think Paul should remain GOP and keep trying to change them from within. I think like-minded people also need to infiltrate the GOP to take it back over. Hopefully he has started the biggest recruitment ever to pull the GOP back to where it should be.

A lot of like-minded people do not like the GOP and prefer to go 3rd party. I have no issue with that. I say make changes from both the inside and the outside - attack from all angles.

All in all, it is up to Paul. If a good 3rd party candidate arises and Paul is not the GOP candidate, then I will vote for him/her. I vote for the stances of the candidate, not the party. If a good 3rd party candidate does not arise, I will write-in Ron Paul even if I have to engrave it into the Diebold touchscreens.

I want to see Paul as the candidate as much as anyone else, but keeping him in Congess is the next best thing (and may he be the biggest recruitment beacon for all that understand his message).

P.S. I did not vote because none of the reasons fully match my thoughts and they seem a little leading.

[colecrowe]

join us in supporting an indy run:

acptulsa
AFM
Aidyl
Airborn
Alex Libman
Andrew76
BarryDonegan
BuddyRey
DaveH
defe07
DFF
Drknows
erin moore
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
LibertyRevolution
Lovecraftian4Paul
Madison
MayTheRonBeWithYou
mketcher
morerocklesstalk
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
PennCustom4RP
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
RonPaulFanInGA
ronpaulyourmom
Russellk30
Seadeus
speciallyblend
SteveMartin
TNFreedom

= 33


Paul has said repeatedly that he will not run 3rd party. Why would he lie to us like that?

No he hasn't!

He was absolutely right--and honest--to say that he "has no intention of going iNDEPENDENT or Third Party" because, right now (at least before today's results), his only intention is to win the Republican nomination. He 100% fully intends (or intended) to wholeheartedly run and try his best to win as a Republican while he is running as such, and he says so. He has NEVER, EVER said "I will not run iNDY". He has never, ever said "I will never run iNDY". But IF it becomes clear he cannot win the nomination, then he can go independent.

I would be very, very, very sad if he didn't go iNDY. He could win it, especially against Hillary (and she seems like the chosen one (it's all about the superdelegates).

Ron Paul said that he will continue to run as long as he continues to get support: canvassing and financing. He's not stupid. He will be able to see when continuing to run Republican will be a futile waste. Then if he has the support he mentioned, he will have to keep going. Key points:

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for almost all the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 7 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.


**********
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/

July 20, 2007, 5:08 pm Poll: An Independent President (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/)

By Megan Thee (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/author/mthee/)

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll taken last week, half of Americans said a president who is neither a Republican nor a Democrat could govern effectively.
And with 6 in 10 Republican primary voters and almost 4 in 10 Democratic primary voters saying they are not satisfied with their party’s current slate of candidates for the presidential nomination, the political environment could be ripe for an independent candidate to break into the race.
[THAT'S HALF]
Michael Bloomberg, a newly minted independent who says he’s not intent on making a run for the White House even though he just switched affiliations, is largely unknown by most Americans. Six in 10 registered voters said they haven’t heard enough about him yet to have an opinion; 9 percent view him favorably; 9 percent unfavorably; and 18 percent said they are undecided.
The current poll suggests that Americans are significantly more optimistic about the chances of a third-party president meeting with success, than they were in 1995 before the Bill Clinton-Bob Dole-Ross Perot contest. In the summer of 1995, just 30 percent of Americans said an independent president could govern effectively and 61 percent said such a president would encounter serious problems dealing with Congress.
Forty-four percent of those polled recently said such a president would have trouble dealing with Congress.

Independents and Republicans are significantly more supportive of a third-party president than are Democrats. Similarly, younger Americans are more open to the idea of an independent president — as respondent age increases, the incidence of those saying an independent could govern effectively decreases.


**********
Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.


An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.


**********
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html
FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country

Thursday, June 28, 2007
By Dana Blanton
http://www.foxnews.com/images/foxnews_story.gif
E-MAIL STORY (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html#)
PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,287190,00.html)NEW YORK — Nearly half of Americans think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:siteSearch%28%27independent%20candidate%27%29 ;) won the 2008 presidential election, according to the latest FOX News Poll. And despite acknowledging the improbability of the candidate winning, a majority says they would consider voting for an independent for president.
Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from June 26 to June 27. The poll has a 3-point error margin.
More than twice as many voters think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate were to win the White House in 2008 than think it would be bad (45 percent good, 19 percent bad). In addition, there is rare partisan agreement on the issue as 42 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans think electing an independent candidate would be good for the country, as do 56 percent of self-described independents.
• Click here to view full results of the poll. (pdf) (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/062807_release_web.pdf)
Furthermore, a 67 percent majority says they would consider casting their ballot for an independent — including more than 6 in 10 Democrats and Republicans.
Even so, most people believe independent candidates have little chance of success: 31 percent of voters think a qualified independent has a reasonable chance of winning a presidential election, while a 63 percent majority thinks it’s unlikely.
(Story continues below)
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Given the amount of attention to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s party affiliation switch from Republican to independent, and the subsequent speculation about him entering the 2008 race, the poll asked people how they would vote in a 3-way race.
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Paris Better Known Than Romney, Thompson
Among the presidential hopefuls, Giuliani is not only one of the best known, but he also continues to be viewed the most positively, receiving a 54 percent favorable rating. Most voters are also familiar with Republican candidate John McCain — 47 percent have a favorable opinion of him and only 5 percent don’t know him.
Republicans Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson are much less well known than the other Republican and Democratic candidates. In fact, more people say they have "never heard of" Thompson, Romney and Bloomberg, than Paris Hilton — only 7 percent of Americans were unable to express an opinion of her.
Today, even though one in five Americans (22 percent) say they have never heard of Romney, that represents a noticeable improvement from earlier this year when 43 percent didn’t know him (Jan. 30-31, 2007). However, as many voters have an unfavorable opinion of Romney (26 percent) as have a favorable opinion (25 percent). His favorable rating is 39 percent among Republicans.
Thompson’s name recognition is also picking up — 32 percent say they have never heard of him today, down from 53 percent in March. His favorable rating is 30 percent overall and 46 percent among Republicans, with 16 percent of all voters holding an unfavorable view.
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In the race for the Republican nomination, Giuliani retains the leader spot at 29 percent followed by McCain at 17 percent, Thompson at 15 percent, Romney at 8 percent and Newt Gingrich at 8 percent. Giuliani is up 7 points from earlier this month, though still 10 percentage points down from 39 percent in February.
Among Democrats, Clinton strengthens her front-runner status with the support of 42 percent (up 6 points), followed by Obama at 19 percent (down 4 points), Gore at 14 percent and Edwards at 10 percent.
When Gore is taken out of the mix, Clinton’s standing improves to 47 percent, Obama 21 percent and Edwards 13 percent.
Where People Are Learning About The Candidates
Television clearly is the most popular place to get information about the presidential candidates, but there are certainly many other options these days. The poll finds that 88 percent of voters are getting information about the candidates from television coverage, 69 percent from newspapers and 51 percent radio coverage.
Internet news sites are a source for 38 percent of Americans, which is distinguished from these specific online sources: 11 percent say they use blogs, 7 percent YouTube and 4 percent use MySpace to learn about the candidates.
About twice as many Americans think Conservative radio talk shows (38 percent) have more influence on politics these days than Liberal Internet blogs (17 percent).
Finally, 53 percent of voters today think it is too early for the 2008 presidential candidates to be campaigning — up from 47 percent who thought so four months ago (February 13-14).

[IDefendThePlatform]

I'd love to see Dr. P run independent. It'd give us all spring and summer to continue spreading his message.

Could he possibly accept both the libertarian and constition party nominations? Is that allowed? That would get him on the ballot in all 50 state, I think. If not, here are our signature deadlines for an indy run:

Looks like someone has already done a lot of this work for us:

http://colbert08.us/content/view/15/2/

* Alabama

Ballot Access Deadline 9/8/2008
Signatures Required 5,000

* Alaska

Ballot Access Deadline 8/6/2008
Signatures Required 3,128

* Arizona

Ballot Access Deadline 3/6/2008
Signatures Required 20,449

* Arkansas

Ballot Access Deadline 8/4/2008
Signatures Required 1,000

* California

Ballot Access Deadline 8/8/2008
Signatures Required 158,372

* Colorado

Ballot Access Deadline 5/1/2008
Signatures Required 10,000

* Connecticut

Ballot Access Deadline 8/6/2008
Signatures Required 7,500

* Delaware

Ballot Access Deadline 11/30/2007
Signatures Required 290

* District of Columbia
* Florida (will have info soon)
* Georgia

Ballot Access Deadline 7/8/2008
Signatures Required 44,089

* Hawaii

Ballot Access Deadline 4/3/2008
Signatures Required 663

* Idaho

Ballot Access Deadline 8/25/2008
Signatures Required 5,984

* Illinois

Ballot Access Deadline 6/26/2008
Signatures Required 25,000

* Indiana

Ballot Access Deadline 6/23/2008
Signatures Required 32,742

* Iowa

Ballot Access Deadline 8/15/2008
Signatures Required 1,500

* Kansas

Ballot Access Deadline 8/4/2008
Signatures Required 5,000

* Kentucky

Ballot Access Deadline 9/2/2008
Signatures Required 5,000

* Louisiana

Ballot Access Deadline 5/22/2008
Signatures Required 1,000

* Maine

Ballot Access Deadline 8/15/2008
Signatures Required 4,000

* Maryland

Ballot Access Deadline 8/4/2008
Signatures Required 10,000

* Massachusetts

Ballot Access Deadline 7/29/2008
Signatures Required 10,000

* Michigan

Ballot Access Deadline 7/17/2008
Signatures Required 38,024

* Minnesota

Ballot Access Deadline 9/9/2008
Signatures Required 2,000

* Mississippi (coming soon)

* Missouri

Ballot Access Deadline 7/19/2008
Signatures Required 10,000

* Montana

Ballot Access Deadline 3/13/2008
Signatures Required 5,000

* Nebraska

Ballot Access Deadline 8/1/2008
Signatures Required 5,934

* Nevada

Ballot Access Deadline 7/3/2008
Signatures Required 5,746

* New Hampshire

Ballot Access Deadline 8/6/2008
Signatures Required 3,000

* New Jersey

Ballot Access Deadline 7/28/2008
Signatures Required 800

* New Mexico

Ballot Access Deadline 4/1/2008
Signatures Required 2,794

* New York

Ballot Access Deadline 8/19/2008
Signatures Required 15,000

* North Carolina

Ballot Access Deadline 5/16/2008
Signatures Required 69,734

* North Dakota

Ballot Access Deadline ?????
Signatures Required 4,000

* Ohio

Ballot Access Deadline 8/1/2008
Signatures Required 5,000

* Oklahoma

Ballot Access Deadline 5/1/2008
Signatures Required 46,342

* Oregon

Ballot Access Deadline 8/26/2008
Signatures Required 18,356

* Pennsylvania

Ballot Access Deadline 8/1/2008
Signatures Required 27,000

* Rhode Island

Ballot Access Deadline 9/5/2008
Signatures Required 1,000

* South Carolina

Ballot Access Deadline 5/1/2008
Signatures Required 10,000

* South Dakota

Ballot Access Deadline 8/5/2008
Signatures Required 3,356

* Tennessee

Ballot Access Deadline 8/21/2008
Signatures Required 275

* Texas

Ballot Access Deadline 5/27/2008
Signatures Required 43,991

* Utah

Ballot Access Deadline 2/15/2008
Signatures Required 2,000

* Vermont

Ballot Access Deadline 9/12/2008
Signatures Required 1,000

* Virginia

Ballot Access Deadline ????
Signatures Required ????

* Washington

Ballot Access Deadline 7/26/2008
Signatures Required 1,000

* West Virginia

Ballot Access Deadline ????
Signatures Required ????

* Wisconsin

Ballot Access Deadline 9/2/2008
Signatures Required 10,000

* Wyoming

Ballot Access Deadline 6/1/2008
Signatures Required 3,868


I like the petition to get Dr. P to run indy. One other thought is if we got Dr. P enough signatures to be on the ballot in a few states that might also make him reconsider an indy run.

[Agent CSL]

I am purely neutral. I will vote for Ron if it's write-in, Indy or GOP.

[libertythor]

I think it would be good to postulate another high profile libertarian-conservative such as Walter Williams or Gary Johnson as the presidential candidate and Ron Paul as their running mate.

That way the sore loser aspect is taken away, and Ron Paul would still draw the enthusiasm and energy to the freedom movement.

[speciallyblend]

I think it would be good to postulate another high profile libertarian-conservative such as Walter Williams or Gary Johnson as the presidential candidate and Ron Paul as their running mate.

That way the sore loser aspect is taken away, and Ron Paul would still draw the enthusiasm and energy to the freedom movement.

the gop is dead in the water. the gop blackout of ron paul was all GOP ,the msm was encouraged by the GOP. THE GOP IS TO BLAME for what happened to ron paul.

[speciallyblend]

I am purely neutral. I will vote for Ron if it's write-in, Indy or GOP.

My VOTE IN GENERAL IS ALREADY WRITTEN IN STONE RON PAUL 2008 ,of course unless he is a vp outside of the gop

[acptulsa]

If you're going to go to the trouble to circulate a petition in your state, please please word it in such a way that it can be used to gain Dr. Paul ballot access as well. If the one works, the other must follow. Why waste your energy twice?

[liberteebell]

I am purely neutral. I will vote for Ron if it's write-in, Indy or GOP.

I'll write Ron Paul in even if I have to write his name on the diebold screen. :p

I have talked to many, many people about Ron Paul. By far, the biggest objection to him is the fact that he's a republican, second only to his foreign policy position which had been effectively bastardized by the msm. With time, that can easily be clarified by further grassroots efforts. Besides, we now have no anti-war candidates running (and don't tell me obamination is anti-war; anyone who "wouldn't take nukes off the table" is NOT anti-war). Third is, "I like him but he can't win". Many people told me that it's high time we had a good independent candidate; that neither the repubs nor the dems are worth a damn.

The economy is going into the toilet on a daily basis. Ron Paul may have been ignored by the msm but [some of] his message has not. I now hear his words being repeated by talking heads everywhere. As things get progressively worse, I believe that people are going to look for answers and they're going to find that Ron Paul has been talking about answers all along.

The message is radical because people have been brainwashed for sooooo long. It takes time to educate people and change minds. It took me "forever" to work on some of my friends but they ultimately did vote for Ron Paul and were proud of it! :D

Point is, the more time we have with Ron Paul in the limelight, the more opportunity we have to spread the message. So I'm all for an independent run and I'll give my bottom dollar and all of my free time to the effort.

In the meantime, I'm working my rear off within the republican party even as I don't have great hope for success. Still, making noise within the party has so far been quite effective. Many are not happy at all at the direction of the party. One way or another, they need a major shake-up.

So yes, I want this once-in-a-lifetime chance to save our country to never go away. I don't care about party labels. It's about the message.

[SteveMartin]

Barr-Paul 2008!!!!

[Andrew76]

Clearly the time is now for Dr. Paul to go independent. To anyone who continues to doubt this idea, I ask, what are you doing here? Here are the two reasons that trump all the reasons why you may think he should not -

1) As Ron Paul has said himself, this is about the message. If Ron Paul goes independent, this would give us more time and more energy to continue to do what we are doing: spreading the message of liberty. That isn't some fluffy, feel-good, bromide being tossed around, it's REAL. The message of free markets, free minds, inidividual rights and liberty is so crucial at this moment in history, we must solider on. If not, why? Again, what are you doing here? This isn't a football game, and it isn't about winning anymore, it's about the message.

2) The unknown. Sure, it's likely that an independent run won't get Ron into the white house, but, would you be willing to bet your mother's life on it? Can you see the future? Never ever, say never. The time may be just right for such a thing. And regardless - this second reason is truly secondary to the first reason of continuing to spread this message to a large American audience. We simply cannot afford to stop now. NO OTHER CANDIDATE HAS RON'S MESSAGE. IT MUST CONTINUE.

Btw, who gives a crap about the GOP. They've all sold out to the neocon agenda. What absurdity it would be now to adhere to some sense of "party loyalty." Absolute hogwash. The message is what matters, not the party.

[Andrew76]

bump

[acptulsa]

No reason to stop trying to hijack the convention. McCain could be under indictment by September the way he's going. No one would ever penalize a delegate for not voting for someone under indictment.

Hell, I don't see any way a jury would convict a delegate for violating a state law about bound delegates if the defense was, he was born in Panama and is therefore ineligible.

Yeah, the G.O.P. is dead--and particularly brain dead. We can fix that. Really. CLEAR!

[FreeTraveler]

RON PAUL DOES NOT SUPPORT THE DRAFT!

Our message is FREEDOM and you want to FORCE him to run???

Pure AssHats who don't understand his message at ALL!

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

[colecrowe]

Force him to run? You're stupid. Where did we say force? Wait I just woke up--maybe you were joking?

[SteveMartin]

Just talked with someone close to RP's Chief of Staff. RP is considering what to do right now.

We need to give him a poll showing overwhelming support for an independent run.

Please vote in the affirmative NOW!

[SteveMartin]

Let's get people over here and voting! I will call RP today if we have enough votes!!!

[acptulsa]

Just talked with someone close to RP's Chief of Staff. RP is considering what to do right now.

We need to give him a poll showing overwhelming support for an independent run.

Please vote in the affirmative NOW!

At the moment, great good and smart are beating the bad to horrible parts by fifty three and a half points. How overwhelming do we need to be?

I still say he shouldn't renounce the G.O.P. just yet, even though I'm ready to tackle the state ballot access petitions.

[Andrew76]

RON PAUL DOES NOT SUPPORT THE DRAFT!

Our message is FREEDOM and you want to FORCE him to run???

Pure AssHats who don't understand his message at ALL!

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

Worst. Rebuttal. Ever.
A military draft, wherein a person is conscripted by LAW to join the military... is an entirely different universe than that of us writing our praises of Ron Paul, suggesting strongly to him that he consider an independent run. Even if we had all the signatures in the world, it wouldn't matter if Ron said, "No thanks."
If it was a draft, he couldn't say no, genius.

[V3n]

Leave the poor man alone. He's already done more and gone to more places than he ever dreamed he would be capable of doing. He started the movement, he gave us the big picture, and the blueprint, now it's time for us to do our parts and for some of us to rise up and run for office ourselves.

He's been fighting these windmills for 30 years for you and for me, but if he says "the movement isn't about me' and he says he doesn't want to run 3rd party, I think the least of what we owe him is to respect that.

[colecrowe]

post this, with the link to this poll (thread) on Daily Paul and etc. please

[colecrowe]

Horrible: He could never win, it would be a huge waste of time&money, & GOP more important.

I can't believe the people voting for this one.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Yeah, let's spread this poll link around. If we can get 1000, or even several hundreds votes on it, then it will gain a little standing as good data.

[SteveMartin]

Let's go! Let's go!! Not a moment to lose!!!

I want to call Bob Barr and RP today!!!

WE CAN MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!!

[V3n]

Horrible: He could never win, it would be a huge waste of time&money, & GOP more important.

I can't believe the people voting for this one.

RE: GOP more important

There are already many politicians running as "Ron Paul Republicans". If Ron Paul were to run as a 3rd party, all of those politicians would be metaphorically hung for associating with "the RINO, the traitor, the Libertarian Ron Paul". They would lose all credibility and have no shot at competing as a Republican or 3rd party.

It's hard enough to run, even harder to go 3rd party - for the sake of those Ron Paul Republicans, he can't leave them out to dry. The movement stands a better chance, if instead of putting all of our eggs on a Ron Paul President, we continue to fight for the Ron Paul Congress and Ron Paul Senate... Diversify!

[SteveMartin]

he doesn't want to run 3rd party

We are urging and INDEPENDENT run. There are major differences.

He has always followed that by saying, "it's too expensive, and you spend all your time getting on the ballots, etc.

Times have changed. He would get the LP nomination, the CP nomination, the Reform Party nomination, the American Party nomination, maybe even the Green Party nomination. The ballot lines are there waiting for him!!!

The money will come! GUARANTEED!!!

We have at least 100,000 dedicated supporters. We have raised $32,000,000 total so far. That's $320 of a possible $2300 per supporter, AND when he goes Independent for the general election, those clocks start over again at 0!

PLUS...I know how to get ahold of the billionaire. He really exists...with a new campaign team he might be convinced to run those infommercials and put his $100,000,000 he originally promised if we would just get a competent campaign team!

[SteveMartin]

v3n,

Please go make your 15 posts on one of your CIA forums, and let us get on with taking our country back. Thanks in advance.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

RE: GOP more important

There are already many politicians running as "Ron Paul Republicans". If Ron Paul were to run as a 3rd party, all of those politicians would be metaphorically hung for associating with "the RINO, the traitor, the Libertarian Ron Paul". They would lose all credibility and have no shot at competing as a Republican or 3rd party.

It's hard enough to run, even harder to go 3rd party - for the sake of those Ron Paul Republicans, he can't leave them out to dry. The movement stands a better chance, if instead of putting all of our eggs on a Ron Paul President, we continue to fight for the Ron Paul Congress and Ron Paul Senate... Diversify!

It's absurd to think we could even come close to winning the primaries to win a majority of the Senate and Congress. There are only a few people running who identify themselves as "Ron Paul Republicans" right now at the national level. And even when they do, some are just applying the label to build grassroots support and turn out to warmongers and neo-cons. If anything, a Ron Paul independent run would make a nice backup plan for larger figures like Sabrin. Murray Sabrin himself could continue on as an independent if he does not win the NJ Senate primary, which is very possible, since he still isn't a front runner in that race.

The GOP is dominated by belligerent neo-cons at all levels. Ron Paul Republicans could do no more this year than win a couple House seats at best and some local state-level offices. Even the three or four RP Republicans who are running in Maryland are in districts where strong Dem incumbents are likely to crush them.

The Republican label itself has become far too much an abomination for the average American voter.

[abe447]

I voted, Horrible: He could never win, it would be a huge waste of time&money, & GOP more important.

Third parties never win. They're a waste of time and money. Why do you think Ron Paul joined the Republican Party to get into Congress? He's already done this in 88 and said he won't do it again. Maybe you don't remember him saying, "There will be no 3rd party run." His plan is to stay in Congress, period.

[SteveMartin]

We are winning!! But we need more votes...let's go. If we get 60-70% for options 1-3 by 5PM with at least 200 votes, I will call RP.

[SteveMartin]

abe,

NO one is talking 3rd party. We are talking about a Barr-Paul, or Paul-Barr ticket as INDEPENDENTS and going after the endorsements of ALL the 3rd parties.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

We are urging and INDEPENDENT run. There are major differences.

He has always followed that by saying, "it's too expensive, and you spend all your time getting on the ballots, etc.

Times have changed. He would get the LP nomination, the CP nomination, the Reform Party nomination, the American Party nomination, maybe even the Green Party nomination. The ballot lines are there waiting for him!!!

The money will come! GUARANTEED!!!

We have at least 100,000 dedicated supporters. We have raised $32,000,000 total so far. That's $320 of a possible $2300 per supporter, AND when he goes Independent for the general election, those clocks start over again at 0!

PLUS...I know how to get ahold of the billionaire. He really exists...with a new campaign team he might be convinced to run those infommercials and put his $100,000,000 he originally promised if we would just get a competent campaign team!

I agree with almost all the third parties you listed, Steve. Don't forget the American Independence Party. Their chairman recently mailed Ron Paul a letter encouraging him to do an indy run. They were formerly wanting Bloomberg as a candidate, but seem happy to endorse Ron Paul if he goes indy. The party is new and relatively small, but would be important in a couple states.

The MN Independence Party (Jesse Ventura's old party which is still considered a major party in Minnesota) and the NY Independence Party (which has historically run several strong gubernatorial candidates) are a part of the new national American Independence Party.

I don't think we could get the Green's endorsement, but we could get the individual support of some open-minded Greens. I've got a couple Green Party friends and unfortunately, most of the party is full of ex-Democrats who are playing their own version of identity politics this year. They seem almost sure to run Cynthia McKinney--a black woman--to outdo the Democrats in "diversity." In any case, they won't very significant, and will pull in around 100,000 votes like they did in 2004 with their nominee David Cobb.

We might have a better chance of getting Ralph Nader to drop out at some point and endorse Ron Paul.

[colecrowe]

is this on daily paul?? (I've never been able to figure out how to get an account there)

[Kludge]

This is a GREAT way to siphon money from state/local issues that will have a bigger impact on us....

We need to educate more people.... Maybe we'll get a libertarian-leaning president in a couple decades, but not today.

[SteveMartin]

Today, 11:08 AM

SteveMartin
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,454



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

No he didn't, Yongrel. He said he wouldn't run 3rd party. His brother Wayne told me last week that he had never said he "wouldn't" just that he wouldn't seek it, unless his supporters urged it upon him.

TIME TO START URGING BOYS AND GIRLS!!!

Actually, the petition is already up...I'll get the title in a second, but it's been put up already by someone else. Spread the word!!!!

No, nothing from Barr yet.

The rumor came from someone close to Tom Lizardo himself. I just spoke to this person. 100% reliable...


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#32 Today, 11:09 AM

Lovecraftian4Paul
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 204



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Quote:
Originally Posted by yongrel
Ron Paul has said himself that he is not going to run as an independent.

Wrong. He has always said he has "no plans."

The message after Super Tuesday in Feb. said there would be no THIRD PARTY run. There's a difference. But even besides the fact, I don't believe the message was written by Ron Paul himself. There's no way he would've quoted Trotsky. It was obviously ghost written by some campaign staffer.

The ultimate proof is his meeting with Bob Barr, which happened Tuesday. Why would he even be meeting with Barr, knowing that Barr is trying to convince him to be a President or VP on a ticket with him, if he were really that firm?


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#33 Today, 11:09 AM

limequat
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Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 217



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Two thoughts:

An independent run would undermine phase 2, which is the take over of the GOP. I'm sure this could be worked around with some fast talking: "I'm not leaving my party, my party left me. I still hope to reform the party through grassroots, blah, blah."

There is still work to be done on the current campaign.
1) Identifying and cataloging RP voters
2) Winning delegates
3) Influencing the convention

Can we run two campaigns at once?


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#34 Today, 11:12 AM

SteveMartin
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,454



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PLEASE, EVERYONE!!! GO VOTE IN THE POLL NOW!!! Spread it to all the other message boards. Get this done today, and I will call RP.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126930

Title: POLL: Draft Ron Paul. Indy run? I got....


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#35 Today, 11:12 AM

Lovecraftian4Paul
Senior Member About:
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Minneapolis
Posts: 204



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Quote:
Originally Posted by limequat
Two thoughts:

An independent run would undermine phase 2, which is the take over of the GOP. I'm sure this could be worked around with some fast talking: "I'm not leaving my party, my party left me. I still hope to reform the party through grassroots, blah, blah."

There is still work to be done on the current campaign.
1) Identifying and cataloging RP voters
2) Winning delegates
3) Influencing the convention

Can we run two campaigns at once?

Yes we can. The GOP measures can be left up to those who want to do it from the grassroots. Personally, it seems like a total lost cause. How would a mere 30-70 Ron Paul delegates influence hundreds of warmongering idiot ones anyway? You might get them on a few key points, like tax relief and gun rights. But both of those things are something the Fred Thompson and Huckabee delegates will be lobbying for anyway.

Standing as an anti-war voice or demanding the protection of our civil liberties will fall on almost totally deaf ears amongst the other idiots serving as delegates from Romney, McCain, Huckabee, and Thompson.

[V3n]

v3n,

Please go make your 15 posts on one of your CIA forums, and let us get on with taking our country back. Thanks in advance.

For having such a famous name, your comedy is extremely lacking.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

This is a new site established last week that has an online petition for an independent run:

http://draftronpaul.com/

Anyone know of any better ones?

[colecrowe]

please keep this bumped up

[SteveMartin]

LC4P,

There may be better ones, but let's just spread the word about this one. I will call both RP and BB at 5:00 PM ET if we have enough votes.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Good to hear, Steve. Just to clarify, is this poll the "petition" you are referring to, or am I missing something?

In any case, I posted a link to it on Third Party Watch in the comments section talking about Ron Paul winding down his campaign. There are a lot of Libertarian supporters of Ron Paul who comment on this blog, but I'm not sure if they have accounts here to vote.

[Edu]

You should be getting signatures to recall local politicians and then you can get a special election to put in a RP selected guy!

It's not that hard to do, and it really shakes up the local politicians like you wouldn't believe!

Look up how to do it on your secretary of state's site or elsewhere via google.

[SteveMartin]

This is it LC4P...there may be others, but I am busy urging people to sign this one.

We don't have to decide if there is a better one. BB could call me any minute...

[familydog]

There is an entire sub forum for this. Can't we keep this kind fo talk there?

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

There is an entire sub forum for this. Can't we keep this kind fo talk there?

Not for this, please. We are trying to get as many votes on this poll as possible, which is easiest if this stays bumped on the main Grassroots page where most members visit.

[SteveMartin]

NO...we can't shuffle the most important issue of the day off to some sub-forum where no one will read it. We need to reinvigorate the troops, NOW!

[familydog]

Then tell the moderators to close that sub forum and put all those posts back here. No point in breaking the forums rules.

[colecrowe]

Then tell the moderators to close that sub forum and put all those posts back here. No point in breaking the forums rules.

This is a POLL. That means it has to ask everyone to be a representative sample. If this was in the subforum, it would probably get 90% Yes votes.

this seems very obvious. It is one thread, and it is different. It should be able to stay.

[limequat]

I voted, Horrible: He could never win, it would be a huge waste of time&money, & GOP more important.

Third parties never win. They're a waste of time and money. Why do you think Ron Paul joined the Republican Party to get into Congress? He's already done this in 88 and said he won't do it again. Maybe you don't remember him saying, "There will be no 3rd party run." His plan is to stay in Congress, period.


I am now 100% for an independent run. If Abe says it's a bad idea, I know the converse is true. Thanks, Abe, for helping me make up my mind!

[limequat]

Who are you, SteveMartin?
You make some pretty big claims. You claim to know the billionaire. You claim to be in contact with Ron's relatives. What gives you this access and why should we believe what you say?



We are urging and INDEPENDENT run. There are major differences.

He has always followed that by saying, "it's too expensive, and you spend all your time getting on the ballots, etc.

Times have changed. He would get the LP nomination, the CP nomination, the Reform Party nomination, the American Party nomination, maybe even the Green Party nomination. The ballot lines are there waiting for him!!!

The money will come! GUARANTEED!!!

We have at least 100,000 dedicated supporters. We have raised $32,000,000 total so far. That's $320 of a possible $2300 per supporter, AND when he goes Independent for the general election, those clocks start over again at 0!

PLUS...I know how to get ahold of the billionaire. He really exists...with a new campaign team he might be convinced to run those infommercials and put his $100,000,000 he originally promised if we would just get a competent campaign team!

[familydog]

This is a POLL. That means it has to ask everyone to be a representative sample. If this was in the subforum, it would probably get 90% Yes votes.

this seems very obvious. It is one thread, and it is different. It should be able to stay.

Ah, I see the rule of law is relative in your eyes.

[SteveMartin]

Why? Because it's true.

Call me and I'll be glad to convince you personally: 207-532-3635.

[familydog]

It's obvious Ron will win as an independent. After all, he spent a million dollars to get his House seat back. I guess it wasn't because he wanted to fall back on anything, it was because he was bored.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

It's obvious Ron will win as an independent. After all, he spent a million dollars to get his House seat back. I guess it wasn't because he wanted to fall back on anything, it was because he was bored.

You're going around the forum acting like there is some threat to his House seat. I don't understand what you are trying to say at all. Ron Paul has no opponent in November and the GOP can't kick him out of Congress. How could he possibly lose his House seat by running as an independent? There is no threat.

[familydog]

You're going around the forum acting like there is some threat to his House seat. I don't understand what you are trying to say at all. Ron Paul has no opponent in November and the GOP can't kick him out of Congress. How could he possibly lose his House seat by running as an independent? There is no threat.

I'm not saying there is any threat to his House seat. Where have I said that? I'm sure he will win. My previous post was a knock on the attitude that if he ran as an independent, he will automatically get millions and millions of dollars, huge polling supporting, get in the debates, get media attention, etc. I asking why he spent all that time and money getting his House seat, if he knew he was going to win as an independent.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I'm not saying there is any threat to his House seat. Where have I said that? I'm sure he will win. My previous post was a knock on the attitude that if he ran as an independent, he will automatically get millions and millions of dollars, huge polling supporting, get in the debates, get media attention, etc. I asking why he spent all that time and money getting his House seat, if he knew he was going to win as an independent.

Honestly, I think Ron Paul was more worried about his House seat for two reasons. One, he was probably overly cautious not knowing what the response would be from his constituents to this Presidential bid. Worse, I think he and his campaign over exaggerated the threat of Peden.

This is fairly excusable though, because neo-con idiots were making up poll numbers claiming Peden had a close edge on Paul, which even the media picked up for some reason. So, they were worried and sought to raise as much money as possible and focus on Texas for a month since they bought into the hype about Peden being a threat. In any case, the primary made it clear it was just garbage, Peden was handily crushed with 70%.

[Dianne]

I don't think any of us are willing to give up this fight.

I will be vastly disappointed if Paul does not go third party. The GOP with their media hacks have dumped on Paul's entire movement and we owe them nothing.

So grab a well known name such as Goldwater as VP and let's hit the campaign trail.

I hereby commit to working as hard as possible for a Paul victory. I will donate money, I will get signs out, I will distribute literature and I will canvass.

Give us a strong, known VP and we'll kick some bootie.

[SteveMartin]

50-25 right now.....2/3rds is pretty darned good...

[SteveMartin]

51-25.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Bump.

Looks like pro-independent position is holding steady at about 2/3 support.

[Kludge]

We're definitely going to accomplish something with nearly 2/3 the support we have now!

>.>

[SteveMartin]

(Borrowed from another poster:)

To those out there that believe we have to work on taking over the GOP, you all are looking at a very long term goal. I don't see how supporting a Ron Paul Indy run for the next 8 months will ruin your future plans for the GOP takeover, which is going to take you people years to do by the way.

We have one shot for Ron Paul and it's in 2008. No guarantees for 2012. You can always resume your GOP ambitions after November. Just something for yall to think about.

[SteveMartin]

Well, maybe this will convince some of you people we need to do this:

(CNN) -- A spokesman for Ron Paul's presidential campaign said Friday that the Texas congressman is ending his run for the White House.
art.paul.gi.jpg

Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas) ran for president as a Libertarian in 1988.

"We are acknowledging that Ron will not be the nominee and that we are winding down the campaign," said Jesse Benton, the Paul campaign's communication manager.

Paul hinted the end was near in a video to supporters posted on YouTube on Thursday.

"Though victory in the conventional political sense is not available in the presidential race, many victories have been achieved due to your hard work and enthusiasm," Paul said in the video.

His comments came two days after Sen. John McCain became the presumptive GOP nominee.

Former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee, announced Tuesday he was quitting the race after McCain victories in Tuesday's primaries, leaving Paul as his only opponent.

Benton said the campaign encourages supporters to continue to take part in primary process and that Paul would honor requests from supporters to speak.

"We still think we can influence the debate and build an organization moving forward that brings the GOP back to its roots," Benton said.

Paul, who ran for president as a Libertarian in 1988, is the sole Republican candidate to call for a U.S. withdrawal from Iraq. He is a distant fourth in the GOP delegate count, behind McCain, Huckabee and former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney.

"We must remember, elections are short-term efforts," Paul said. "Revolutions are long-term projects."

Paul's "Hope for America" campaign has been a grassroots effort, focusing on a "limited constitutional government, low taxes, free markets, and a return to sound monetary policies," according to his Web site.

"But even with the past year's achievements, we're still the early stages of bringing about the changes that this revolution is all about."

[libertarian4321]

join us in supporting an indy run:

= 33

Okay, folks, time for an adult to step into the room and hit you upside the head with a dose of cold, hard reality.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that Ron Paul is willing to throw away his seat in congress for a Quixotic run as an "independent" (not a chance in HELL that it will happen, but just for the sake of argument).

As an independent, Ron Paul is already TOO LATE to make the ballot in many states, even if he started today. On top of that, to obtain ballot access in most of the remaining states, you have to have millions of dollars or millions of volunteers. It ain't easy to get those thousands of signatures, folks- those signatures have to be from people WHO DID NOT VOTE IN THE DEM OR REP primaries, and given the closely contested races this year, it will be harder than ever to get those signatures (if you think its easy, ask the Libertarians- they spend so much money on ballot access that they rarely have much left for actually campaigning- and as an established party, they have automatic ballot access in some states).

An "Independent" run doesn't have a chance in Hell. At best, if you had some very rich donors help with ballot access, he might get on the ballot in 30 states if he STARTED TODAY. He'd be lucky to pull 0.5% of the vote in the General Election.

Running as a Libertarian would be his best chance to get votes (they, at least, have ballot access in most states). But he wouldn't be running to "win", he'd be running as a spoiler. With the full support of the Libertarian and Constitution Parties, and with full support of whats left of his following from the Republican primary run, Ron Paul might pull 3-5% (and thats a VERY optimistic estimate)- 1 or 2% is probably more realistic.

There is no Santa Claus, there is no tooth fairy, and Ron Paul isn't going to get elected President in 2008. Sorry to rain on the fantasy parade, folks.

Of course, this is all just silly speculation, because he's NOT GOING TO GIVE UP HIS SEAT IN CONGRESS TO TILT AT WINDMILLS!

If he was going to run as a third party or an independent, he wouldn't have spent so much time and money holding his congressional seat. Ron Paul isn't stupid, kids, he realized weeks ago that he wasn't going to win the Republican primary (whatever small hope there was ended when Romney dropped out). If he was going to run "indy" or third party, he would have started WEEKS AGO!

About all we can do now is continue to work to change the debate- whether you choose to do that inside the Republican Party or from the outside as a Libertarian is up to you.

Feel free to flame me or bitch and moan, but I'm giving it to you straight...

[SteveMartin]

There is no "throwing away a seat in Congress"...so there is no need to read the rest of your rant.

[SteveMartin]

An Independent run would seek AND GET the endorsements of BOTH the CP (currently on the ballot in 48 states) AND the LP (currently on the ballot in 38 states.)

No petitioning necessary.

next....?

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I almost stopped reading when you said Ron Paul would throw his seat away, as if there is actually some kind of threat to it. And then I did when you mentioned ballot access. You obviously don't realize that the earliest deadline isn't even until around May.

Even Nader has barely begun collecting signatures, and with his tiny group of supporters, he was able to make it onto over 30 state ballots in 2004. He would've made it onto even more if the Democrat's lawyers hadn't used lawsuits to keep him off in several states. Ron Paul has a far larger base and would gain the endorsements of both the Libertarians, the Constitution Party, and others. He should easily be able to make it on in all 50 states.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Damn, we need more people to vote in this poll the next few hours. It always seems like we have 150-200 people viewing the Grassroots Central forum at any given time during the day. Don't enough of these people have accounts to vote in the poll?

[libertarian4321]

There is no "throwing away a seat in Congress"...so there is no need to read the rest of your rant.

Wrong.

If Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian/Independent/whatever for President, he would NOT be allowed to run as a Republican in Texas for his seat in Congress.

Hence, he would have to give up his seat in congress for any quixotic "third party " run at President.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Wrong.

If Ron Paul ran as a Libertarian/Independent/whatever for President, he would NOT be allowed to run as a Republican in Texas for his seat in Congress.

Hence, he would have to give up his seat in congress for any quixotic "third party " run at President.

Not true. This has been discussed many times. As long as he's an independent in Texas, there is an exception to this law (if your interpretation is even correct, of which I have some doubt). Independent is not an organized party.

As for the "sore loser" laws in Texas and elsewhere, they can probably be overturned. For lower level offices, they always have been stopped as unconstitutional.

For the last time: there is NO threat to Ron Paul's House seat in the case of an independent run. There are no opponents, the GOP can't kick him out of Congress, and there is no law that will force him to give it up.

[libertarian4321]

Even Nader has barely begun collecting signatures, and with his tiny group of supporters, he was able to make it onto over 30 state ballots in 2004. He would've made it onto even more if the Democrat's lawyers hadn't used lawsuits to keep him off in several states. Ron Paul has a far larger base and would gain the endorsements of both the Libertarians, the Constitution Party, and others. He should easily be able to make it on in all 50 states.

Yeah, and Nader got 0.3% of the vote in his last run. That fell about 49.5% short of what he needed to win, as I recall.

Sure, the Constitution Party (normally gets about 0.1-0.2% of the vote in every Presidential election) and the Libertarian Party (normally gets 0.3-0.5% of the vote) would PROBABLY back Ron Paul (it isn't guaranteed- there are others seeking the LP nomination).

Great, so Ron could probably count on the 0.6% the Constitution and Libertarian Parties combined would normally get. Lets say EVERYONE who voted for Ron Paul in the Republican Primaries also stuck with him in the general election. Depending on voter turnout, that would likely net him another 2% or so, maybe a little less. Even if we assume no overlap between these two groups (and, of course, there would be PLENTY of overlap), we have roughly 2.6% of the votes.

While 2.6% would be the best (by far) the Libertarians ever did, I'm pretty sure it won't get you enough electoral votes to win.

Lest you think Ron would be able to suddenly "gain traction" running as a Libertarian, let me point out that the kind of "ignored" Ron experienced as an unconventional candidate running in the GOP is NOTHING compared to the utter black out he will experience running as a Libertarian. Libertarian Party Presidential candidates are so ignored they show up on the back of milk cartons. I know, I've been a Libertarian for a long time, and about the only way a Libertarian Presidential candidate will get significant national exposure is if he runs out into the street and gets run over by a truck (and then only because the media loves blood)...

[libertarian4321]

Not true. This has been discussed many times. As long as he's an independent in Texas, there is an exception to this law (if your interpretation is even correct, of which I have some doubt). Independent is not an organized party.

As for the "sore loser" laws in Texas and elsewhere, they can probably be overturned. For lower level offices, they always have been stopped as unconstitutional.

For the last time: there is NO threat to Ron Paul's House seat in the case of an independent run. There are no opponents, the GOP can't kick him out of Congress, and there is no law that will force him to give it up.

You live in fantasy land if you think he's going to run as an independent. Do you have any idea how hard it is to get ballot access? He'd be lucky to get on the ballot in 30-40 states.

Even if you are correct regarding the being able to run as a Republican for one race and an independent for another (I'm pretty sure you aren't), what makes you think Ron Paul is going to make a Quixotic and pointless run at President as an Indy when he knows he wouldn't crack 2%?

I'll make a bet with you. If Ron runs as an independent, I'll send him $2,300 on day one. If he doesn't, you send $2,300 to the charity of my choice.

That'd be the easiest money I ever raised for charity...

[SteveMartin]

Ballot access already acheived. Do you read, or just whine?

Look, I don't mind people making valid points and having their objections, but to spout the same nonsense more than once in inexcusable.

[IDefendThePlatform]

Yeah, and Nader got 0.3% of the vote in his last run. That fell about 49.5% short of what he needed to win, as I recall.

Sure, the Constitution Party (normally gets about 0.1-0.2% of the vote in every Presidential election) and the Libertarian Party (normally gets 0.3-0.5% of the vote) would PROBABLY back Ron Paul (it isn't guaranteed- there are others seeking the LP nomination).

Great, so Ron could probably count on the 0.6% the Constitution and Libertarian Parties combined would normally get. Lets say EVERYONE who voted for Ron Paul in the Republican Primaries also stuck with him in the general election. Depending on voter turnout, that would likely net him another 2% or so, maybe a little less. Even if we assume no overlap between these two groups (and, of course, there would be PLENTY of overlap), we have roughly 2.6% of the votes.

While 2.6% would be the best (by far) the Libertarians ever did, I'm pretty sure it won't get you enough electoral votes to win.

Lest you think Ron would be able to suddenly "gain traction" running as a Libertarian, let me point out that the kind of "ignored" Ron experienced as an unconventional candidate running in the GOP is NOTHING compared to the utter black out he will experience running as a Libertarian. Libertarian Party Presidential candidates are so ignored they show up on the back of milk cartons. I know, I've been a Libertarian for a long time, and about the only way a Libertarian Presidential candidate will get significant national exposure is if he runs out into the street and gets run over by a truck (and then only because the media loves blood)...


Paul starts at 11% as an independent candidate:

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/will_michael_bloomberg_ron_paul_run_third_party_ca mpaigns_in_2008

Its only one poll but its certainly more reliable than your own personal estimates.

[SteveMartin]

Ron Paul has already PROVEN he is has a minimum of 5% of the Republican vote. I bet he has double that among Independents right now--before announcing he is running as one of them.

How many dems that are upset their nominee's lost to the other would we get--especially given RP is the most legitimately anti-war of ALL the candidates for any party?

Our donations would skyrocket the minute the announcement were made.

We have a real shot at winning as an Independent ticket.

We have NO shot of doing anything but participating in some quixotic notion of "rescuing the war party" by staying with the neocons and playing with their toys.

[IDefendThePlatform]

RP should:

1) announce an independent candidacy within the next few weeks

2) accept the Constitution party's nomination at their convention this spring

3) accept the Libertarian party's nomination at their convention this May(?)

starting out at 10-11% as independent, plus the bounce from accepting both nominations would be huge. Both parties have already asked him to be their candidate, as a former libertarian member I would love to see him accept both. Someone please tell me this is possible?

[Highland]

need a choice that says.."No because Dr. Paul refuses to run third party"

[SteveMartin]

Of course it is!!!

I wonder how many who voted "no" above will come our way once they wake up and see that he really is done chasing Republican windmills.

[Maltheus]

I used to think that a 3rd party/independent run was necessary and could have had real traction. But now I feel like too much momentum has been lost. The only way he could do it is if he shook things up in his campaign team. If he simply announced a switch to an independent run, without any other major changes, I'd support him with my time, but not my money. I still think it's better than staying in the Republican party though. When the party is over, it's time to go home.

But the question is moot since that mail he sent to us, saying that he wouldn't. Unlike previous denials, that one was concrete. I think he's still trying to figure out how to keep this movement going, as are many other people. But I don't think there's really much left to rally around if Paul is only half-in the race on the Republican ticket. It seems like we're just going through the motions until someone else viable steps up with a similar platform. That'll take years though.

[SteveMartin]

NO we don't because he is being asked to run as an INDEPENDENT! (I know what the poll says, and that should be changed.)

[V3n]

We have NO shot of doing anything but participating in some quixotic notion of "rescuing the war party" by staying with the neocons and playing with their toys.

It's a lot easier to turn a boat than it is to build one.

[SteveMartin]

It's a lot easier to ride the express train over the cliff than it is to turn it around too. Doesn't mean we shouldn't try.

[V3n]

But if all the people we are trying to save are on that train, it doesn't do much good to stand outside holding signs and screaming when we could be on board applying the brakes.

[libertarian4321]

Ballot access already acheived. Do you read, or just whine?

Look, I don't mind people making valid points and having their objections, but to spout the same nonsense more than once in inexcusable.

Steve, maybe you should stick to comedy, because you have no idea what you are talking about.

Ballot access is NOT "achieved".

As an Indy, Ron would be on the ballot in exactly ZERO states today.

The Libertarian party has ballot access in TWENTY EIGHT states right now (its right on the home page at www.lp.org ). The tiny Constitution party doesn't say, but it probably has ballot access in even less states. "Ballot access" requires 50 states plus DC. So at this point, an indy or third party run is nowhere near full ballot access. The Libertarian Party NORMALLY gets ballot access in 48-50 states, but I know they are short of money this year (largely due to many Libertarians donating to Ron Paul's campaign instead of the LP), and will likely not achieve access in as many states as normal.

Ballot access is NOT "achieved."

[EastWindRain]

Excellent poll and thread. We need to have open discussion on this topic. In my opinion running 3rd party is now the thing to do. The movement wants to continue to fight. We don't want to give up. The world is screaming for change. Let's capture it, and deliver Ron Paul, who is America's and the world's hope for ending the Zionist Power Structure which enslaves us all.

[SteveMartin]

I suppose Bob Barr is not a good source for information on the LP's ballot status, nor is the incoming national chairman of the Constitution Party...both of whom I've been talking to on a regular basis.

L4321 knows better than those guys.

[SteveMartin]

67-34...still hanging at 2/3.

The grassroots is speaking much louder than any of us could...

[SteveMartin]

69-34...over 2/3!

[libertarian4321]

Paul starts at 11% as an independent candidate:

http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/will_michael_bloomberg_ron_paul_run_third_party_ca mpaigns_in_2008

Its only one poll but its certainly more reliable than your own personal estimates.

That poll was taken in January, before either Obama or McCain looked like they would win. In the Hillary versus McCain poll, he did worse.

Given that Ron Paul has consistently finished at around 5% in the GOP primaries, including states with open primaries, its highly unlikely that he would vault to 11% in a general election.

Even if you really believe he'd get ballot access in 48+ states (HIGHLY UNLIKELY) and "start at 11%" today (which is not realistic), he'd still be nothing but a spoiler.

Look, I realize some of you are going to close your eyes, ball your fists, stomp your feet and REFUSE TO BELIEVE Ron Paul won't be President. I know I'm raining on your parade.

But it ain't gonna happen, folks. I know it, and Ron for damned sure knows it...and he's not going to embarass himself on a Quixotic quest just because some of you don't want to see reality.

I'd love to see Ron Paul as President, I may still "write him in" just as a protest act, but he's not going to win in '08.

[SteveMartin]

Translation for L4321,

"Let's just ride over the cliff."

Great idea!

[EastWindRain]

If Ron Paul received 50 000 signatures and donations from 50 000 people requesting that he run 3rd party, I think he would run 3rd party.

Somebody should put together a website promoting this idea.

[SteveMartin]

EWR,

YES!!!!! Would if I could.

[IDefendThePlatform]

That poll was taken in January, before either Obama or McCain looked like they would win. In the Hillary versus McCain poll, he did worse.

Given that Ron Paul has consistently finished at around 5% in the GOP primaries, including states with open primaries, its highly unlikely that he would vault to 11% in a general election.

Even if you really believe he'd get ballot access in 48+ states (HIGHLY UNLIKELY) and "start at 11%" today (which is not realistic), he'd still be nothing but a spoiler.

Look, I realize some of you are going to close your eyes, ball your fists, stomp your feet and REFUSE TO BELIEVE Ron Paul won't be President. I know I'm raining on your parade.

But it ain't gonna happen, folks. I know it, and Ron for damned sure knows it...and he's not going to embarass himself on a Quixotic quest just because some of you don't want to see reality.

I'd love to see Ron Paul as President, I may still "write him in" just as a protest act, but he's not going to win in '08.

I'm not really into balling my fists and crying, but let's suppose he only starts at 8%. or 6%. Whatever, he still has 8 more months of campaigning and spreading the message. Even if he doesn't get elected, which we all agree is something of a long shot, we could do a helluva a lot more for the freedom movement by campaigning nationally for 8 more months than just flying under the radar until the Republican convention in September. What else am I going to do with my spring and summer? The Republican party left Ron Paul, its time for Dr. P to return the favor and show America that principles are more important than party.

[burningfur]

That poll was taken in January, before either Obama or McCain looked like they would win. In the Hillary versus McCain poll, he did worse.

Given that Ron Paul has consistently finished at around 5% in the GOP primaries, including states with open primaries, its highly unlikely that he would vault to 11% in a general election.

Even if you really believe he'd get ballot access in 48+ states (HIGHLY UNLIKELY) and "start at 11%" today (which is not realistic), he'd still be nothing but a spoiler.

Look, I realize some of you are going to close your eyes, ball your fists, stomp your feet and REFUSE TO BELIEVE Ron Paul won't be President. I know I'm raining on your parade.

But it ain't gonna happen, folks. I know it, and Ron for damned sure knows it...and he's not going to embarass himself on a Quixotic quest just because some of you don't want to see reality.

I'd love to see Ron Paul as President, I may still "write him in" just as a protest act, but he's not going to win in '08.




Finally, a realist on the boards. Where were you during Iowa, NH, SC, combating all those threads claiming total and complete victory in the polls? :p



You're right, that's why I voted horrible idea. The best way to send a message?

Write in Ron Paul.




And you guys think the media blackballed Ron Paul now?

Wait until he's runs as an independent. Then you will see serious black-balling.

[SteveMartin]

There will be some VERY BIG money players coming in if he goes Independent. Count on it.

WE can buy our own exposure with a new campaign staff that knows how....

[josh24601]

I used to reply to these threads trying to explain that the man does not want to run on a third party, until I realized that this is about what these people want, not anything about Ron Paul, and as such, trying to explain that Ron Paul doesn't want to run on a third party doesn't do any good because that's not what these people care about. They have their own agenda.

[burningfur]

There will be some VERY BIG money players coming in if he goes Independent. Count on it.

WE can buy our own exposure with a new campaign staff that knows how....

yeah, just like all those "millionaires" coming in to help.

I'm not trying to be negative, but at some point, we have to stop eating the pie in the sky.

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

This country didn't deserve Ron Paul and they're going to reap what they sow.

[Melissa]

I choose this response


Just smart: GOP would never nominate him, parties are a curse anyway, and it COULD succeed.

Because if Ron Paul wants to do this I would be behind him 100% But until he says no way or yes of course I will still do what I do in the GOP.

But I will go down what ever road it takes to try and achieve freedom for me and my children and I hope Ron Paul feels the same and besides what do we have to lose anymore ....really ....our life...well for freedom its always worth everything we have.

[libertarian4321]

I suppose Bob Barr is not a good source for information on the LP's ballot status, nor is the incoming national chairman of the Constitution Party...both of whom I've been talking to on a regular basis.

L4321 knows better than those guys.

I'm sorry to hear that Bob Barr, apparently, is as clueless as you are, Steve.

Okay, you aren't the sharpest knife in the drawer, so I'll hold your hand and lead you through this (after you do this, help Bob Barr do the same).

Type "http://www.lp.org/index_ba08.html" in the little box at the top of your browser.

Notice the title of this page from the LIBERTARIAN PARTY WEB SITE is "Libertarian Party Ballot Access 08".

Now, go down the page and count up the number of states where the LP has ballot access. Use your fingers if you have to.

If you can count, you will come up with TWENTY EIGHT states where the LP has ballot access.

BTW, the LP sends out enough "help us with ballot access " solicitations that no one in the LP who opens his mail could possibly think the LP has full ballot access. BTW, the LP hasn't had its Presidential candidate on the ballot in all 50 states and DC since 1996 (when Harry Browne got about 0.5% of the vote).

[libertarian4321]

I'm not really into balling my fists and crying, but let's suppose he only starts at 8%. or 6%. Whatever, he still has 8 more months of campaigning and spreading the message. Even if he doesn't get elected, which we all agree is something of a long shot, we could do a helluva a lot more for the freedom movement by campaigning nationally for 8 more months than just flying under the radar until the Republican convention in September. What else am I going to do with my spring and summer? The Republican party left Ron Paul, its time for Dr. P to return the favor and show America that principles are more important than party.

Well, if you have (or are planning to become) a delegate, you can try to influence the GOP platform- its hard to do, but we can try. We can also keep working to help RP-like candidates in other races (congress, state assembly). More importantly, we can keep spreading the message and build support for the ideas Dr. Paul espouses. Who knows, maybe Ron will run again in 2012, or maybe a like minded candidate will come along.

If you are, like me, a Libertarian who came to the GOP just because of Ron Paul, you can support the LP candidate. I know, its just as much "tilting at windmills" as anything else, but in a summer sure to be dominated by McCain vs Obama (or even worse, Hillary), it might make you feel better.

Or we can all just start drinking heavily :)

[libertarian4321]

Finally, a realist on the boards. Where were you during Iowa, NH, SC, combating all those threads claiming total and complete victory in the polls? :p



I was here, hoping for a miracle back then. I tried to tell some of the overly optimistic folks to get a grip on reality (the "we're going to dominate in Iowa and NH" stuff was just a bit over the top, lol), but I remained hopeful at first.

[Maltheus]

The best way to send a message?

Write in Ron Paul.


About as good as a message in a bottle, if you ask me. They won't even bother counting those write-ins until after the election and you'll probably have to hunt out the results. If he doesn't get the nom or go 3rd party, then you probably best off voting Libertarian or something. Since the Libertarians were the first we contacted while trying to get new Ron Paul supporters, any future Ron Paul types will know to contact you. But if it makes you feel good to write in, that's reason enough I suppose. I haven't fully decided myself.

[UK4Paul]

Isn't RonPaul2008.com supposed to be about getting Ron Paul into the White House?

If Ron thinks it's unlikely he'll get the nomination, then doesn't it just make sense to explore alternative routes, such as an independent run?

Sure, the media will ignore him, but... he's kinda used to that, now - so basically, nothing would change.

Except that time would now be on Ron's side. I'm pretty sure he could get 180,000 precinct leaders over time, and with 8 months until the election, that's plenty of time to bypass the MSM altogether and get Ron's message out to the people.

Quite frankly, I'd love to think he could pull off a coup in September, but if it doesn't happen, that only leaves 2 months before the election.

Remember: RonPaul2008 is about putting Ron Paul in the White House. Even if it means drop-shipping him in :) )

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

2/3 to 1/3. That's encouraging. That means people really believe in the message and are willing to give more and more.

[colecrowe]

Good idea: 68.18% (but 10.6% of those say he could NEVER WIN)
Bad idea: 31.82%

[CitizenPlain]

...

[colecrowe]

If something happens to McCain, why would they vote for anti-war Paul, whom like 7% of them voted for in the Primaries--most of the others having a high unfavorable of him?


if he decides to run as an independent,

I'll support him.

I don't think he will. There is too big of

a chance that McCain will self destruct before

the convention. That is Dr. Paul's best bet.

I'm voting for him no matter what.

I'll write him in.

[colecrowe]

bump

[OptionsTrader]

Dec 10, 2007

http://www.lp.org/media/article_545.shtml

LNC resolution to Ron Paul

Party congratulates Congressman Paul for his success in spreading a message of peace, prosperity and freedom

Charleston, SC – In a meeting of the Libertarian National Committee held this weekend in Charleston, South Carolina, former Congressman Bob Barr proposed a resolution urging Congressman Ron Paul to seek the Libertarian Party's presidential nomination.

The resolution passed unanimously and is included below:


WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party and Congressman Ron Paul share many common principles for liberty and prosperity in America, and

WHEREAS, Congressman Ron Paul is a member of the Libertarian Party in good standing, and

WHEREAS, Congressman Ron Paul was previously nominated by the delegates of the Libertarian National Convention to serve as the Libertarian Party’s 1988 presidential candidate, and

WHEREAS, Congressman Ron Paul, through the efforts of his current presidential campaign, has ignited a renewed passion for liberty across America, and

WHEREAS, for over 35 years, the members of the Libertarian Party have continually fought for liberty through activism, education and the political process, and

WHEREAS, the Libertarian Party and its members have remained respectful, and in many cases, supportive of Congressman Ron Paul’s campaign seeking the Republican presidential nomination, and

WHEREAS, the Libertarian National Committee encourages competition in the race for the Libertarian Party’s presidential nomination and is appreciative of all candidates who make the commitment to run;

NOW THEREFORE, in the event that Republican primary voters select a candidate other than Congressman Paul in February of 2008, the Libertarian National Committee urges Congressman Ron Paul to seek the presidential nomination of the Libertarian Party to be decided in Denver, Colorado during Memorial Day weekend of 2008.

FURTHERMORE, The Libertarian National Committee congratulates Congressman Paul for his success in spreading a message of peace, prosperity and freedom and also thanks the thousands of activists and supporters across the United States who have made this unprecedented success possible.

RESOLUTION ADOPTED unanimously by vote of the Libertarian National Committee, the 9th day of December 2007, in the city of Charleston, State of South Carolina, United States of America.

[Russellk30]

Ah, I see the rule of law is relative in your eyes.

Law? Haha, thanks for the laugh. Respect my authoritai!

[Russellk30]

Okay, folks, time for an adult to step into the room and hit you upside the head with a dose of cold, hard reality.

Lets assume for the sake of argument that Ron Paul is willing to throw away his seat in congress for a Quixotic run as an "independent" (not a chance in HELL that it will happen, but just for the sake of argument).

As an independent, Ron Paul is already TOO LATE to make the ballot in many states, even if he started today. On top of that, to obtain ballot access in most of the remaining states, you have to have millions of dollars or millions of volunteers. It ain't easy to get those thousands of signatures, folks- those signatures have to be from people WHO DID NOT VOTE IN THE DEM OR REP primaries, and given the closely contested races this year, it will be harder than ever to get those signatures (if you think its easy, ask the Libertarians- they spend so much money on ballot access that they rarely have much left for actually campaigning- and as an established party, they have automatic ballot access in some states).

An "Independent" run doesn't have a chance in Hell. At best, if you had some very rich donors help with ballot access, he might get on the ballot in 30 states if he STARTED TODAY. He'd be lucky to pull 0.5% of the vote in the General Election.

Running as a Libertarian would be his best chance to get votes (they, at least, have ballot access in most states). But he wouldn't be running to "win", he'd be running as a spoiler. With the full support of the Libertarian and Constitution Parties, and with full support of whats left of his following from the Republican primary run, Ron Paul might pull 3-5% (and thats a VERY optimistic estimate)- 1 or 2% is probably more realistic.

There is no Santa Claus, there is no tooth fairy, and Ron Paul isn't going to get elected President in 2008. Sorry to rain on the fantasy parade, folks.

Of course, this is all just silly speculation, because he's NOT GOING TO GIVE UP HIS SEAT IN CONGRESS TO TILT AT WINDMILLS!

If he was going to run as a third party or an independent, he wouldn't have spent so much time and money holding his congressional seat. Ron Paul isn't stupid, kids, he realized weeks ago that he wasn't going to win the Republican primary (whatever small hope there was ended when Romney dropped out). If he was going to run "indy" or third party, he would have started WEEKS AGO!

About all we can do now is continue to work to change the debate- whether you choose to do that inside the Republican Party or from the outside as a Libertarian is up to you.

Feel free to flame me or bitch and moan, but I'm giving it to you straight...

Sorry to rain on your parade, but you are a little too pessimistic.

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=116207

[mkeller]

This needs to be bumped. :)

And I also am all for an independent run!

[FreeTraveler]

Leave the poor man alone. He's already done more and gone to more places than he ever dreamed he would be capable of doing. He started the movement, he gave us the big picture, and the blueprint, now it's time for us to do our parts and for some of us to rise up and run for office ourselves.

He's been fighting these windmills for 30 years for you and for me, but if he says "the movement isn't about me' and he says he doesn't want to run 3rd party, I think the least of what we owe him is to respect that.

+1776

That's EXACTLY the point I was trying to make:

RON PAUL DOES NOT SUPPORT THE DRAFT!

Our message is FREEDOM and you want to FORCE him to run???

Pure AssHats who don't understand his message at ALL!

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

Support Dr. Paul's position, which he has often stated.

If he changes his mind, I'm sure he'll tell you.

I have lost ALL respect for some of you who have been RP supporters in the past, but have now decided to HIJACK his campaign and try to force him to run third-party.

Edit: My Bad. I forgot most of you are from government school, and have no respect for other people or their wishes. Apparently that extends to your attitude toward the good doctor, as well.

[Russellk30]

I used to reply to these threads trying to explain that the man does not want to run on a third party, until I realized that this is about what these people want, not anything about Ron Paul, and as such, trying to explain that Ron Paul doesn't want to run on a third party doesn't do any good because that's not what these people care about. They have their own agenda.

Yes, our agenda is the promotion of liberty. How inconceivably wretchedly horrible!

[Russellk30]

+1776

That's EXACTLY the point I was trying to make:

RON PAUL DOES NOT SUPPORT THE DRAFT!

Our message is FREEDOM and you want to FORCE him to run???

Pure AssHats who don't understand his message at ALL!

SHAME ON ALL OF YOU!

Support Dr. Paul's position, which he has often stated.

If he changes his mind, I'm sure he'll tell you.

I have lost ALL respect for some of you who have been RP supporters in the past, but have now decided to HIJACK his campaign and try to force him to run third-party.

Edit: My Bad. I forgot most of you are from government school, and have no respect for other people or their wishes. Apparently that extends to your attitude toward the good doctor, as well.

Are you stupid? I have a few words I want you to look up the definition of. Here it goes...Persuasion....Coercion....Analogy....Imbeci le...

[FreeTraveler]

Are you stupid? I have a few words I want you to look up the definition of. Here it goes...Persuasion....Coercion....Analogy....Imbeci le...

No, I'm not stupid. Are you ignorant? I can see you as the Boy Scout who FORCES the old lady across the street so he can help her, even though SHE DOESN'T WANT TO CROSS THE STREET!

Dr. Paul has said in many different ways that he DOES NOT want to run except as a Republican. However, there's a boatload of people here who think THEY know better than he does, and are DETERMINED to PUSH him into a run that he knows would be far less beneficial to the Freedom Movement than the same amount of effort put into Grassroots efforts at ALL levels of government.

Great... go ahead, MAKE it a cult of personality, which is EXACTLY what Dr. Paul does NOT want! Go ahead, push for an independent/third-party run, AFTER Dr. Paul has said repeatedly that it's not a smart idea.

But DON'T call me stupid for respecting HIS WISHES and refusing to respect people who are nagging him to go against his own best judgement.

On edit: "Armchair Quarterback"... that's the term I've been looking for. When Dr. Paul names you quarterback, then you can call the plays.

[Russellk30]

No, I'm not stupid. Are you ignorant? I can see you as the Boy Scout who FORCES the old lady across the street so he can help her, even though SHE DOESN'T WANT TO CROSS THE STREET!

Dr. Paul has said in many different ways that he DOES NOT want to run except as a Republican. However, there's a boatload of people here who think THEY know better than he does, and are DETERMINED to PUSH him into a run that he knows would be far less beneficial to the Freedom Movement than the same amount of effort put into Grassroots efforts at ALL levels of government.

Great... go ahead, MAKE it a cult of personality, which is EXACTLY what Dr. Paul does NOT want! Go ahead, push for an independent/third-party run, AFTER Dr. Paul has said repeatedly that it's not a smart idea.

But DON'T call me stupid for respecting HIS WISHES and refusing to respect people who are nagging him to go against his own best judgement.

On edit: "Armchair Quarterback"... that's the term I've been looking for. When Dr. Paul names you quarterback, then you can call the plays.

Thank you for the "I know what Ron Paul wants" perspective. I don’t know what Paul wants, but I do know that he has never ruled an independent run out. It seems to me that you and your cohorts are the ones claiming to know the wishes of Ron Paul. To top it off, you make stupid claims of shameful actions and misinterpretations of the message.

If he was so tired of politics, then why stay in congress? He obviously wants to continue the fight for freedom, and if grassroots motivates him to run as an independent with a huge show of support for the idea, he might have something to think about. That’s not coercive, is it?

[colecrowe]

bump

[rp08orbust]

Great: 46.31%
Good: 10.07%
Just smart: 13.42%


That's 69.8% of respondents that are positive about an independent run. 70% ==> those opposed are getting pedened :D

Those in such denial (6.71%) that they think he still has a "good chance" of winning the Republican nomination would also no doubt support the independent run if he announced it, so make that about 77%.

[Rhys]

what's up with the choices?

[colecrowe]

keep this bumped please

[IDefendThePlatform]

Well, if you have (or are planning to become) a delegate, you can try to influence the GOP platform- its hard to do, but we can try. We can also keep working to help RP-like candidates in other races (congress, state assembly). More importantly, we can keep spreading the message and build support for the ideas Dr. Paul espouses. Who knows, maybe Ron will run again in 2012, or maybe a like minded candidate will come along.

If you are, like me, a Libertarian who came to the GOP just because of Ron Paul, you can support the LP candidate. I know, its just as much "tilting at windmills" as anything else, but in a summer sure to be dominated by McCain vs Obama (or even worse, Hillary), it might make you feel better.

Or we can all just start drinking heavily :)

I like all of your ideas and am doing some right now, but nothing compares to the publicity of a presidential campaign. For advancing the message of liberty and a chance (albeit small) at victory, third party is a way better option than stay Republican and "get involved." Why not get involved in a national campaign? Dr. P would be THE third party candidate if he announced for it. The alternative is no presidential candidate to promote our message. This is an unbelievable opportunity, but Dr. P isn't going to just announce a third party candidacy without some significant demand for it on our part. That's why we need to contact the official campaign and let our opinions be heard.

Reasons why Dr. P is the most electable liberty candidate ever:
No other true liberty candidate has:

1) Dr. Paul's 20+ year incredibly consistent voting record
2) His history of military service
3) Is a doctor who has delivered over 4000 babies
4) Is as sharp a speaker and debater as RP

I like Murray Sabrin, Rand Paul, and all the rest, but the odds are we will not have another candidate as great as Dr. Paul for decades. Let's make the most of it with a third party run!

[SteveMartin]

bump

[Madison]

He should run as an Independent. No political party is necessary. Support will have to be massive for this to happen. This means making the march on 6/12 huge.

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump

[SteveMartin]

I wonder if Dr. Paul will take heart in the symbolism of this matching his Peden destruction?

[SteveMartin]

71% now!

I always figured we should end up with about a 3-1 edge in favor of an Independent run. It really is the only shot we have, and I believe it is a very good one.

[RollOn2day]

Thanks mods for letting this stay where it belongs....in the Grassroots Central Forums!

And as the numbers show of this poll show, there is overwhelming support on this forum (and by reference the Ron Paul supporters nationwide) for an independent run.

To the posters that are famous on this forum for their hand wringing and teeth gnashing at the mere discussion of the only viable way to get Ron Paul to the White House this year, I say "Welcome to the real R3volution!"

Now doesn't that sound better than STFU?

If you want to work to change the GOP, it is no skin off of our back. More power to you.

And for those of us who want to do this outside of the GOP, it should be no skin off of your back and you should wish more power to us.


As far as the argument that "A Third Party can't win because it never has" I offer this...

Are you also saying that "A woman can never win because they never have"?
Are you also saying that "A black man can never win becauses they never have"?

No? I didn't think so. So if you can have the wisdom and vision to "See" something in this election that has never happened before I invite you to "See" something else that has never happened before....

An independent victory for Ron Paul!

[SteveMartin]

bump

[EastWindRain]

According to the poll, it does appear that a clear majority of Ron Paul supporters want Ron Paul to run independently. I think the thing is that we R.P. supporters want him to win so badly that we can't give up. To continue to work with the GOP means that victory this time around is not possible, (correct me if I am wrong) so we choose to take a path where victory is still possible. A large percentage of the American population are not happy with the three choices for President, so that means a Ron Paul victory is ripe for the picking. Let's get a web site built, a Youtube video made, and the promotion of a money bomb happening. Let's also not forget about the Ron Paul march in June. Fight on Patriots.

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump me please

[Eric21ND]

I think the thing is some of us always knew the republican party wasn't going to give us a fair shake...putting his name on the ballot would be huge victory regardless of whatever happens.

[AFM]

Paul/Barr?
Paul/Goldwater?

[LittleLightShining]

I just spent an hour reading through this whole thread. I voted GREAT. For freedom, liberty and justice for all.

[IPSecure]

Dr. Paul said he will stay in until the convention, which has been his plan all along.

Why keep throwing this independent run into the mix?

It is contrary to what the good Doctor has said, many times.

[colecrowe]

48% (84 people): Great (option 1)
29% (49 people): total of Bad+Horrible+Stupid (options 4, 5, & 6)

71.18% Good (options 1-3) (but 10% of those say he could NEVER win (option 2))
28.83% Bad (options 4-6)

So 61% is pretty darn strong (104 people on this forum so far)--that's people that think it would be a good idea AND that he could win it (options 1 and 3).

27.06% say he could NEVER win (options 2 and 5).

[Kludge]

You can't win with less then 2/3 of those who already failed to elect him WITH (very limited) press coverage. Media won't cover him at all as an independent. Message could be spread better on an individual level ;)

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

You can't win with less then 2/3 of those who already failed to elect him WITH (very limited) press coverage. Media won't cover him at all as an independent. Message could be spread better on an individual level ;)

Why would the other 1/3 vote for Obama/Hillary or McCain? That's completely illogical. I'm inclined to believe even those who don't want him to run as an independent would still vote for him if he did.

The media already blacked him out, so that's nothing new. But even so, Ron Paul would at least get some coverage, probably more on par with levels of coverage Ross Perot perceived. The only reason to believe they wouldn't cover him at all as an indy is due to Ralph Nader. While I still see it as somewhat unfair, it's also more understandable. After all, Nader is someone who only appealed to no more than 5% of independents and far left Democrats in 2000 combined. And even then, he ended up with about 3% in 2000, and less than 1% in 2004.

Ron Paul would start out miles beyond perennial liberal candidate Nader, so it's reasonable to assume he would gain more media coverage as well. Especially when anti-war voters from the Dem side come flocking to him after the very possible likelihood of Hillary doing something underhanded to snatch the nomination away from their beloved Obama.

[colecrowe]

He should run a few really amazing infomercials nationwide, primetime. Perot got more than the sitcoms. He got 10.9 million viewers on a Friday night.

[mmink15]

Can't hurt, and it gives us a few more months to canvass and spread the word face-to-face.

[Kludge]

Why would the other 1/3 vote for Obama/Hillary or McCain? That's completely illogical. I'm inclined to believe even those who don't want him to run as an independent would still vote for him if he did.

The media already blacked him out, so that's nothing new. But even so, Ron Paul would at least get some coverage, probably more on par with levels of coverage Ross Perot perceived. The only reason to believe they wouldn't cover him at all as an indy is due to Ralph Nader. While I still see it as somewhat unfair, it's also more understandable. After all, Nader is someone who only appealed to no more than 5% of independents and far left Democrats in 2000 combined. And even then, he ended up with about 3% in 2000, and less than 1% in 2004.

Ron Paul would start out miles beyond perennial liberal candidate Nader, so it's reasonable to assume he would gain more media coverage as well. Especially when anti-war voters from the Dem side come flocking to him after the very possible likelihood of Hillary doing something underhanded to snatch the nomination away from their beloved Obama.

I sure as hell won't help in funding him again. This campaign was a joke. The goal was education and all I saw were god-awful commercials and racist newsletters (which won't go away when if he run indy[even if they weren't really a fault of his]) with minimal press coverage.

Sure, we'll probably do at LEAST 3x better then Nadar. 5% of the vote, maybe? Most of the apathetic don't vote in primaries, the general election brings in all sorts of know-nothings voting by who sounds/looks best, or who's in the party they affiliate themselves with.

The 1/3 who voted against an indy. run will probably vote for him, but I doubt they'd fund him again.

[rockandrollsouls]

If it's any consolation, I look pretty good and I'll gladly run for president in the future :p


I think the campaign was managed poorly. Indy + Bob Barr + A huge name for an advisor = a possible shot at this

[Banana]

I would think it far more effective to just get the ballot access wherever possible and organizing a committee to elect Ron Paul independently.

Make this clear that this is an independent effort outside of official PCC, is not endorsed or approved by RP himself, then it would work out to everyone's benefit. If things dictate, RP can then go over to indy run. Or he can use that as a bargaining chip at the national Convention.

But one thing is for sure, I am reasonably positive that he shouldn't be involved in this as long as he is officially running for Republican nomination, or be coordinating in any way; it would be viewed upon as a collusion and would reflect poorly on him.

[mkeller]

Good idea, Banana.

[Andrew76]

Anyone who disagrees, imo, with the notion that Ron Paul should continue to get the message out - since he's clearly in the best position to do so on a large scale, is hugely mistaken. Why shouldn't he? Who else is in such a position to continue to a) get the word out on his own and b) motivate others to do so?
Don't fool yourselves, none of us can touch the level of influence he has on a national level. A year or so ago, you'd have never dreamed that stockbrokers would be televised live, cheering for Ron Paul as he lit into a Fed chairman over money policy.

Things. Have. Changed. We must continue to get this message out, as Ron has himself noted. The odds are so infinetessimally small for a presidential win as to be nonexistent, agreed. And it doesn't matter now if you think the campaign was handled well or not. What matters is that the fight - technically - is not over, and even if it was, there's still ample time to continue to hammer away at mainstream America with this universally important message: free minds, free markets, individual responsibility, non-intervention, liberty and freedom.

Newsflash: the message is what matters most. Why it is that some of you have yet to understand this is beyond me. Ron is 99.999 percent not likely to get the repub. nomination, fine. It is what it is. So, he couldn't continue to campaign as a republican. But, if he goes independent, that gives us more time, and more opportunities to CONTINUE to reach people with The Message. How many of you have had your lives completely shaken by this campaign? (I mean that in the best way possible). For those of us who feel something akin to being born-again, there is no turning back. The message must continue. It has to continue or this was all for nothing.

Sure, pick this argument apart, find reasons as to why we should all throw in the towel and stop dedicating time out of our lives to something so important. Go vote for Obama or McCain, idiots.

For the rest of you non-fair weather patriots, we've got work to do! Onwards and upwards.

Ron, independent in 2008!

[AFM]

+ quadrillion

[Russellk30]

Dr. Paul said he will stay in until the convention, which has been his plan all along.

Why keep throwing this independent run into the mix?

It is contrary to what the good Doctor has said, many times.

Contrarians! Oh the humanities! The good doctor is going to be displeased that some among us have views that differ from someone else’s! I feel sorry for the intern that will have to break this news to him.

[Russellk30]

Anyone who disagrees, imo, with the notion that Ron Paul should continue to get the message out - since he's clearly in the best position to do so on a large scale, is hugely mistaken. Why shouldn't he? Who else is in such a position to continue to a) get the word out on his own and b) motivate others to do so?
Don't fool yourselves, none of us can touch the level of influence he has on a national level. A year or so ago, you'd have never dreamed that stockbrokers would be televised live, cheering for Ron Paul as he lit into a Fed chairman over money policy.

Things. Have. Changed. We must continue to get this message out, as Ron has himself noted. The odds are so infinetessimally small for a presidential win as to be nonexistent, agreed. And it doesn't matter now if you think the campaign was handled well or not. What matters is that the fight - technically - is not over, and even if it was, there's still ample time to continue to hammer away at mainstream America with this universally important message: free minds, free markets, individual responsibility, non-intervention, liberty and freedom.

Newsflash: the message is what matters most. Why it is that some of you have yet to understand this is beyond me. Ron is 99.999 percent not likely to get the repub. nomination, fine. It is what it is. So, he couldn't continue to campaign as a republican. But, if he goes independent, that gives us more time, and more opportunities to CONTINUE to reach people with The Message. How many of you have had your lives completely shaken by this campaign? (I mean that in the best way possible). For those of us who feel something akin to being born-again, there is no turning back. The message must continue. It has to continue or this was all for nothing.

Sure, pick this argument apart, find reasons as to why we should all throw in the towel and stop dedicating time out of our lives to something so important. Go vote for Obama or McCain, idiots.

For the rest of you non-fair weather patriots, we've got work to do! Onwards and upwards.

Ron, independent in 2008!

Hell yeah! Now thats some good reality based logic right there, something that has been lacking around here for a bit.

Anybody have a video of those stockbrokers cheering for Ron? I think I missed that one.

[free.alive]

When will this stop. 68% of you are idiots, end of story..


Oh shit...that means that in order to actually have a chance at long-term change we not only have to overcome all the collectivist dems, and all the collectivist republicrats, and all the collectivist moderates (independents) and all the fringe party devotees who deflate our numbers, you mean to tell me that 68% of Ron Paul's supporters have no savvy, balls and can't conceptualize a game of chess?!

Looks like we REALLY have our work cut out for us.

People this is a life-long fight. Our best check-mate is for all of you to become PCO in your local GOP and vote out the frauds. Then we decide the platform, we decide the party leadership, we decide the rules and we decide the criteria for candidates. McFlyy????

[colecrowe]

keep it bumped. don't disenfranchise.

[Russellk30]

When will this stop. 68% of you are idiots, end of story..


Oh shit...that means that in order to actually have a chance at long-term change we not only have to overcome all the collectivist dems, and all the collectivist republicrats, and all the collectivist moderates (independents) and all the fringe party devotees who deflate our numbers, you mean to tell me that 68% of Ron Paul's supporters have no savvy, balls and can't conceptualize a game of chess?!

Looks like we REALLY have our work cut out for us.

People this is a life-long fight. Our best check-mate is for all of you to become PCO in your local GOP and vote out the frauds. Then we decide the platform, we decide the party leadership, we decide the rules and we decide the criteria for candidates. McFlyy????

Fail

[Melissa]

Anyone who disagrees, imo, with the notion that Ron Paul should continue to get the message out - since he's clearly in the best position to do so on a large scale, is hugely mistaken. Why shouldn't he? Who else is in such a position to continue to a) get the word out on his own and b) motivate others to do so?
Don't fool yourselves, none of us can touch the level of influence he has on a national level. A year or so ago, you'd have never dreamed that stockbrokers would be televised live, cheering for Ron Paul as he lit into a Fed chairman over money policy.

Things. Have. Changed. We must continue to get this message out, as Ron has himself noted. The odds are so infinetessimally small for a presidential win as to be nonexistent, agreed. And it doesn't matter now if you think the campaign was handled well or not. What matters is that the fight - technically - is not over, and even if it was, there's still ample time to continue to hammer away at mainstream America with this universally important message: free minds, free markets, individual responsibility, non-intervention, liberty and freedom.

Newsflash: the message is what matters most. Why it is that some of you have yet to understand this is beyond me. Ron is 99.999 percent not likely to get the repub. nomination, fine. It is what it is. So, he couldn't continue to campaign as a republican. But, if he goes independent, that gives us more time, and more opportunities to CONTINUE to reach people with The Message. How many of you have had your lives completely shaken by this campaign? (I mean that in the best way possible). For those of us who feel something akin to being born-again, there is no turning back. The message must continue. It has to continue or this was all for nothing.

Sure, pick this argument apart, find reasons as to why we should all throw in the towel and stop dedicating time out of our lives to something so important. Go vote for Obama or McCain, idiots.

For the rest of you non-fair weather patriots, we've got work to do! Onwards and upwards.

Ron, independent in 2008!

QFT

[Banana]

Soo.... let's translate talk into action.

I earlier suggested that people form a committee to elect Ron Paul independently. Adopt a precinct program, work on a script to disavow any kind of affiliation with official PCC while gathering ballot access and getting petition signatures (e.g. real live petition, not an online petition) pledging to vote for Ron Paul if he is on the ballot (don't have to be indy or Republican; just pledge to vote for Ron Paul wherever he may be on the ballot), and so forth.

This will help RP in long run: 1) If he stays in Republican race, he has a bargaining chip to take to convention and because he had no hand in this, this can't be considered a collusion, and GOP will have to take him seriously because of all support (the more hard pledged there is, the better), 2) If he does give up on republican, or convention has come and no nomination or coup turns out, he has a indy run that's made possible by grassroot efforts.

This isn't a mutually exclusive goal, but for this to start right now, I'd think everyone should know to leave Ron Paul and PCC out of this, and just concentrate on getting the ballot access and pledges while we continue to support his pressent objectives of picking up as many as delegates as he can at Republican conventions.

Remember- Paul cannot and should not hedge his bets, but there's nothing stopping us from doing so.

[Bro.Butch]

The most inexpensive and productive way to do this is through third parties who already have Ballot access in a lot of states. Ballot petitioning is time consuming, expensive and frustrating. You need to get almost twice the amount required to ensure they are enough valid ones.

Most people don't realize how hard it will be to get over a million signatures from people. These third Parties know the laws and how to get the job done.

There are several third parties who like Ron. I say the more that will draft him the BETTER ! There is no law against receiving the nomination of more than one party ! There are laws that state your name cannot appear twice on the ballot in some states. Just hypotheticly(sic?) speaking let's say the CP (Constitutional Party) and the LP (Libertarian Party) draft Dr. Paul. They can work it out between them which states they will have Dr. Paul at the top of their ticket. Every single Ron Paul supporter can choose whichever one they like and work with them or not work with them.

It will still be Ron and the message on the ballot, no matter which label it is under. I think it would be wonderful if we could get as many of these as possible supporting Ron, because that means they won't be running anyone against him. If five or six third Parties back him I truly think we would have a chance.

We would only have a chance however by running local-state campaigns, not sending money to the current RP campaign, they ,as has been stated, are inept and should be replaced. Dr. Paul probably doesn't understand they have squandered his chances @ the nomination. It would take too long to cover their blunders here, needless to say we can use independent and PAC ads in our areas to get the message out and make long strides toward victory. Let the national campaign continue to work on coordinating precinct canvassing, not on advertising we have to take that over to make sure it is done !!!


About the third Parties
We need to email their leadership and let them know we want them to DRAFT RON PAUL. If enough of us do this they will draft him and he will be in the FINAL for all the marbles ! I just don't want all of our efforts to end and not be in the finals. We still have a chance to spread this message to 100 million more people before Nov.4.


Ron has been trying to win a Republican U.S. House race (a RP 70 +% winner as you know). He has no opposition in Nov. and in Texas his name can be in the POTUS race also, so no problem there. However, he can't seek these third Party nominations because it will be used against him. He chooses to remain a Republican (which he has been since childhood, by the way) in the congress for the benefits (committee appointments, etc.) .

He has to be drafted by these third Parties and run as U.S. Rep. Ron Paul (R-TX) on the Libertarian, Constitutionist, Reform, New American Independent Party, American Party, Jeffersonian Republican Party (he has their endorsesment by the way), American Heritage Party, Populist Party and/or Conservative Party's nominee for POTUS. That way if he loses he can retain his position within the Republican Party House organization.

If all these third parties would back him in a combined effort this one time he could truly be competitive on Nov. 4 ! An E Plurius Unum (sic?) {Out Of Many, One !} campaign. With Ron's grassroots revitalized it could shake up this country-LOL...

In a 4-to-5 way Electorial College race anything could happen, even a Ron Paul Victory !!!

As for being accused of sour grapes, WELL he told them he was the ONLY true Republican in the race. He will STILL be !!!!!!! -LOLOLOLOL

Let's do this friends, and not squander this past year of effort...

* - * - *
Others are already working toward this effort...

Fellow supporters of Ron Paul,

Let’s keep Ron Paul in the presidential race through Election Day!

Dr. Paul has made it clear he is in the race through the Republican convention in September—he’s not quitting and he’s not letting up. But he has also stated that he doesn’t plan to run after that as a third party candidate.

I understand his reluctance to seek the Libertarian Party’s nomination for President. The rules are stacked against independent and third party candidates, and media attention to these candidacies is minimal.

But the rules are changed now, thanks to Dr. Paul himself.

The Libertarian Party is already on the ballot throughout the nation, and Ron Paul is now a household name after the Republican presidential debates. He also has a proven ability to obtain financial support on a level never before enjoyed by the Libertarian Party.

This combination of name recognition and financial support means that a Ron Paul candidacy could carry the Libertarian Party vote *(%) into the double-digits on Election Day, and possibly keep both major parties from obtaining a majority of the votes. No longer would libertarians and constitutionalist conservatives be ignored!

And let’s not forget his demonstrated support from independents and anti-establishment Democrats. A historic new coalition is in the making, and it can carry the Ron Paul Revolution forward past the 2008 elections!

Let’s not throw away all that has been gained this year.

Let’s keep Ron Paul on the ballot through Election Day!

I urge... Dr. Paul to seek and accept the Libertarian Party nomination, for the reasons I’ve given you. The...Libertarian Party to draft Ron Paul as its presidential candidate this year.

Please...join this effort. After you have...please...urge your friends to...as well... That way we maximize the impact...!

Thank you,

David Franke
Editor
UltimateRonPaul.com
9625 Surveyor Court, Suite 400
Manassas, VA 20100

* - * - *

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDIBNX70EkA&NR=1
The ONLY Way Ron Paul Can WIN IS....




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cphTr...eature=related
Hutton Gibson endorses Ron Paul for President in 2008




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[Russellk30]

bump

[colecrowe]

Many great thoughts, QFT...




There are several third parties who like Ron. I say the more that will draft him the BETTER !

...

It will still be Ron and the message on the ballot, no matter which label it is under. I think it would be wonderful if we could get as many of these as possible supporting Ron, because that means they won't be running anyone against him. If five or six third Parties back him I truly think we would have a chance.

...

We need to email their leadership and let them know we want them to DRAFT RON PAUL. If enough of us do this they will draft him and he will be in the FINAL for all the marbles ! I just don't want all of our efforts to end and not be in the finals. We still have a chance to spread this message to 100 million more people before Nov.4.

...

Let's do this friends, and not squander this past year of effort.

...

Let’s keep Ron Paul in the presidential race through Election Day!

...

The rules are stacked against independent and third party candidates, and media attention to these candidacies is minimal.

But the rules are changed now, thanks to Dr. Paul himself.

Ron Paul is now a household name after the Republican presidential debates. He also has a proven ability to obtain financial support on a level never before enjoyed by the Libertarian Party.

This combination of name recognition and financial support means that a Ron Paul candidacy could carry the Libertarian Party vote *(%) into the double-digits on Election Day, and possibly keep both major parties from obtaining a majority of the votes. No longer would libertarians and constitutionalist conservatives be ignored!

...

Let’s not throw away all that has been gained this year.

[gerryb]

Soo.... let's translate talk into action.

I earlier suggested that people form a committee to elect Ron Paul independently. Adopt a precinct program, work on a script to disavow any kind of affiliation with official PCC while gathering ballot access and getting petition signatures (e.g. real live petition, not an online petition) pledging to vote for Ron Paul if he is on the ballot (don't have to be indy or Republican; just pledge to vote for Ron Paul wherever he may be on the ballot), and so forth.

This will help RP in long run: 1) If he stays in Republican race, he has a bargaining chip to take to convention and because he had no hand in this, this can't be considered a collusion, and GOP will have to take him seriously because of all support (the more hard pledged there is, the better), 2) If he does give up on republican, or convention has come and no nomination or coup turns out, he has a indy run that's made possible by grassroot efforts.

This isn't a mutually exclusive goal, but for this to start right now, I'd think everyone should know to leave Ron Paul and PCC out of this, and just concentrate on getting the ballot access and pledges while we continue to support his pressent objectives of picking up as many as delegates as he can at Republican conventions.

Remember- Paul cannot and should not hedge his bets, but there's nothing stopping us from doing so.

QFT

[colecrowe]

bump

[SteveMartin]

I suppose we could take it all the way to the convention, make as much "noise" as possible there, and then announce the independent run the day after?

[IDefendThePlatform]

I suppose we could take it all the way to the convention, make as much "noise" as possible there, and then announce the independent run the day after?

I think by the time of the convention in September it will be too late to announce an independent/third party run. The Constitution party's convention is April 26th in Kansas City, and the Libertarian Convention is May 26th in Denver. I'm not sure when the Reform party convention is, I couldn't find it on their website. We need to get them all to draft RP so we can all work together.

[colecrowe]

bump

[Danny Molina]

Terrible idea.

He'll lose his house seat. I don't think we want Dr. Paul to be unemployed do we?

[AFM]

Terrible idea.

He'll lose his house seat. I don't think we want Dr. Paul to be unemployed do we?

No, he won't.

[colecrowe]

bump

[IDefendThePlatform]

Why is the donation page missing from the website? This seems like a bad omen. Someone say something encouraging, please.

Edit: My bad. Just the counter page is no longer on the front. Still, I don't like it. You can still click on donations in the upper right.

[Delivered4000]

Why not? We have nothing to lose

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Why is the donation page missing from the website? This seems like a bad omen. Someone say something encouraging, please.

Edit: My bad. Just the counter page is no longer on the front. Still, I don't like it. You can still click on donations in the upper right.

Yeah, it's safe to say the campaign has been suspended at this point, even if it goes unsaid by HQ or Ron Paul himself. Our only hope is convincing him to run independent.

[colecrowe]

bump

[Ball]

I voted horrible.

I also don't believe that just because a majority of people believe something, it is true.

We should focus on Congressional runs (like Murray Sabrin) and the national convention. Congress, after all, has all the power if you elect congressmen with the balls to assert it. Don't buy into the Presidency myth.

[Ball]

Why not? We have nothing to lose

It's more of a question of where best to further our efforts, not whether to do this or nothing at all.

[kigol]

:cool:

[colecrowe]

bump

[Banana]

We should focus on Congressional runs (like Murray Sabrin) and the national convention. Congress, after all, has all the power if you elect congressmen with the balls to assert it. Don't buy into the Presidency myth.

It bears reminding that by getting all delegates we can to National and state conventions, we can then pack the committees with our people and thus 1) make it friendlier toward other liberty candidates and 2) turn out corrupt politicians.

[jointhefightforfreedom]

BUMP lets get some signatures!

[nodope0695]

There will be no independent, third party run....face it.

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump

[gerryb]

Why won't this thread die?

If you want to pass petitions to get him on the ballot in your state, no one is stopping you from doing that.

Ron Paul is committed to staying within the Republican Party, but if you draft him onto your state ballot, I doubt he would stop it.

[Banana]

Why won't this thread die?

If you want to pass petitions to get him on the ballot in your state, no one is stopping you from doing that.

Ron Paul is committed to staying within the Republican Party, but if you draft him onto your state ballot, I doubt he would stop it.

QFT.

I already posted two times asking to see some kind of action. But posting is so much more easier, no?

[Russellk30]

I think the OP just wants to get an accurate idea of what kind of support a third party run has. Considering the poll, it would seem the folks that hate the idea of an independent run are just very active in this forum, considering they are the minority. Ironic how that worked out and no wonder so many people left this forum. Many were banned or harassed until they left because allegiance to the republican party was not declared.

[Russellk30]

Bump

[colecrowe]

I think the OP just wants to get an accurate idea of what kind of support a third party run has. Considering the poll, it would seem the folks that hate the idea of an independent run are just very active in this forum, considering they are the minority. Ironic how that worked out and no wonder so many people left this forum. Many were banned or harassed until they left because allegiance to the republican party was not declared.

very true it seems. They make up about 36% at most (options 4, 5, and 6)

[tbrambo]

:d:d:d:d:d:d:d

[Banana]

I think the OP just wants to get an accurate idea of what kind of support a third party run has. Considering the poll, it would seem the folks that hate the idea of an independent run are just very active in this forum, considering they are the minority. Ironic how that worked out and no wonder so many people left this forum. Many were banned or harassed until they left because allegiance to the republican party was not declared.

Hmm, that is an interesting way to state this. You know that this isn't mutually exclusive, right? Also, if what you said is indeed true, then you're basically saying that OP is wasting his time here and should make a website to help gauge forming a serious effort. Therefore, you would agree with me that if they're really serious about it, they'd actually do something instead of running a poll on a website that's obviously opposed to such effort?

[Russellk30]

Hmm, that is an interesting way to state this. You know that this isn't mutually exclusive, right? Also, if what you said is indeed true, then you're basically saying that OP is wasting his time here and should make a website to help gauge forming a serious effort. Therefore, you would agree with me that if they're really serious about it, they'd actually do something instead of running a poll on a website that's obviously opposed to such effort?

So you are saying that all Ron Paul supporters that think an independent run would be a good idea should leave ronpaulforums and start their own website? I am sure if the moderator knew that grassroots actually liked the idea of an independent run, they might be more sympathetic toward the idea. They have let this thread stay around for a while after all.

Either way, this poll has its practical purposes. If an entire group of supporters is going to be systematically kicked out of a forum, at the very least we can find out who each other are so we can organize later on.

Maybe we should ask the moderators? Hey moderators, should we all leave and start our own forum?

[Banana]

So you are saying that all Ron Paul supporters that think an independent run would be a good idea should leave ronpaulforums and start their own website?

No, that was your implication. Read your post earlier:


Considering the poll, it would seem the folks that hate the idea of an independent run are just very active in this forum, considering they are the minority. Ironic how that worked out and no wonder so many people left this forum. Many were banned or harassed until they left because allegiance to the republican party was not declared.

I have suggested earlier that people who are serious about independent run take charge and form a kind of PAC without involving Ron Paul (as he's still running for Republican nomination) but all I got was more bumps (and one QFT). Is this all hot air or are you actually serious? If you're serious, then I'd expect to see you advertising the website here and encouraging all precinct captains to join up in the effort.

It bears repeating- they don't have to be mutually exclusive, and no one is being banned over this or asked to leave. All I ask is for some action.

[Russellk30]

I have to disagree. You were the only one talking about leaving and starting our own website. I didn’t even indirectly state anything like that. Please read my posts more than once before responding. I am sure some of us plan on or already have started working on getting Ron Paul to Run outside of the Republican Party. I have signed multiple petitions asking just that and that is the point of this thread.

I didnt realize that Republicans has trademarked the Ron Paul revolution. Hell, if it wasnt for nonrepublicans, this movement would have never happened.

No matter what you say, there is some practicality in this poll. Why are you so upset about it? Over a hundred people think third party/independent is a good option. If we are allowed to voice our opinion here, we will. If not, than the moderators better state that. Until I am kicked out of here like others have been, I will argue such.

Quit trying to put words in my mouth and quit asking repeat questions, which I just answered a few moments ago.

The OP is trying to gauge the level of support around here, and after getting the required information, proceeding from there. It’s really that simple.


Hmm, that is an interesting way to state this. You know that this isn't mutually exclusive, right? Also, if what you said is indeed true, then you're basically saying that OP is wasting his time here and should make a website to help gauge forming a serious effort. Therefore, you would agree with me that if they're really serious about it, they'd actually do something instead of running a poll on a website that's obviously opposed to such effort?


No, that was your implication. Read your post earlier:

I have suggested earlier that people who are serious about independent run take charge and form a kind of PAC without involving Ron Paul (as he's still running for Republican nomination) but all I got was more bumps (and one QFT). Is this all hot air or are you actually serious? If you're serious, then I'd expect to see you advertising the website here and encouraging all precinct captains to join up in the effort.

It bears repeating- they don't have to be mutually exclusive, and no one is being banned over this or asked to leave. All I ask is for some action.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

It's very interesting that Ron Paul again skirted the question about an independent/third party run this morning on CNN. Hard to deny he's at least considering it.

[SteveMartin]

Paul leaves open door to third-party bid, unlikely to support McCain
David Edwards and Nick Juliano
Published: Monday March 10, 2008

|



Print This Email This



In an interview on CNN Monday morning, long-shot presidential candidate Ron Paul, whose campaign is winding to a close, says he is unlikely to support presumptive Republican nominee John McCain and he left open the possibility of mounting a third-party bid for the White House.

Recognizing the mathematical impossibility of overtaking presumed GOP nominee John McCain, Paul says his campaign for the White House is down-shifting as he focuses on building his "revolution" in other ways.

The Texas congressman dismissed talk of a third-party presidential campaign as impractical, but he did not completely rule out the idea.

"I don't think it's very practical, and I think Republicans deserve to have at least a conservative to vote for," Paul said. "The conservative base does not the support John McCain because he's identified more with the liberal Democrats. So why should they be disenfranchised? Although the odds are slim, but they have a right to vote for someone that stands for traditional Republican principles: limited government, personal liberties. I mean, this is something the Republicans used to brag about and preach, so they deserve a chance to vote for that."

Paul said he likely would not support McCain for the sake of unifying the party.

"If you can unify a party and reject your principles, what is unity worth? ... I'm not likely to support John McCain unless he changes his views," Paul told CNN's John King Monday morning. "He doesn't represent anything I've talked about for 30 years. ... How could I reject everything I've talked about for 30 years and say, now it's all over, unity is the most important thing?"

The libertarian Texas Republican rocketed to prominence after his supporters coalesced on the Internet and fueled independent fundraising drives that shoveled millions of dollars in donations to Paul's campaign. Despite the passion of his most committed backers, though, Paul was unable to make much of a dent in any GOP primaries or caucuses this year.

Paul told CNN that he would still compete for delegates in upcoming contests in Pennsylvania and elsewhere to accrue as many delegates as possible to vote on party platforms and other issues at the GOP convention this summer in Minneapolis.

"The true revolution on the change of the party as well as change of the country is ongoing," he said. We feel very good about it which means I'm still in the race but certainly in manner that is less energetic than it was six months ago."

CNN's John Roberts talked with Ron Paul about how he will end his bid for President.

This video is from CNN's American Morning, broadcast March 10, 2008.





Transcript via closed captions

:: 20 minutes to the top of the hour. to politics, republican ron paul is winding down his campaign but on his website he says there is still something to fight for.

:: the victory in the convention conventional political sense is not available in the race, many victories have been achieved due to hard work and enthusiasm. elections are short-term efforts. revolutions are long-term projects.

:: congressman ron paul joins me now from his office in texas. good to see you. let's get to you straighten this out. let's hear it straight from the horse's mouth. is the campaign over or not?

:: no. it's not over. it is certainly winding down. there are a lot less primaries left. super tuesday has passed. mccain has the number. if you're in a campaign for only gaining power, that's one thing. if you're in a campaign to influence ideas and future of the country, the campaign is never over. this is a tremendous vehicle for us. we have gotten 350,000 people together. i tell you what, they don't want to quit. this is just the beginning. they're very much involved in influencing the party and getting involved and becoming candidates. so the true revolution on the change of the party as well as change of the country is ongoing. we feel very good about it which means i'm still in the race but certainly in manner that is less energetic than it was six months ago.

:: but the bottom line is you are going to continue to contest in the upcoming primaries?

:: sure. i will go. pennsylvania is coming up. north carolina is coming up. we have a lot of supporters there. i feel obligated because there may be 30,000 volunteers in pennsylvania waving signs. i don't feel good about walking away from them. some of them actually believe a lot of good will come from this. a lot more have come of this campaign than i ever dreamed. i didn't think that it would last that long nor we would energize so many nor raise so much money. we're really excited about what's going on.

:: congressman, when people say ron paul is out of the presidential race, that's true, not true, partly true? how would you describe it?

:: i would think in a nominal sense what are the odds of us overcoming delegates of john mccain. so in that way it's over but the campaign to get the maximum number of votes and maximum number of delegates to participate in writing platforms and talking about the future, i think we're very much involved and very much alive.

:: so you're still trying to influence the race and get your issues out there. there are some people that say the best way you can do that is to launch a third party or independent candidacy. what do you say?

:: it's not practical. republicans deserve to have a conservative to vote for. right now the conservative base does not the support john mccain because he's identified more with liberal democrats. why should they be disenfranchised? the odds are slim but they have a right to vote for someone that stands for traditional republican principles. this is something the republicans used to brag about and preach. they deserve a chance to vote for that.

:: mccain is on the campaign trail now saying he's trying to unify the party and reenergize the party. are you suggesting he's not the guy to do that?

:: well, i would suggest that unity might be secondary to principle. what do we believe in? if you can unify a party and reject principles, what is unity worth? i would say it's a healthy thing to have a discussion and debate. that's what the campaign is all about.

:: will you support john mccain?

:: i'm not likely to support jik unless he changes his views. he doesn't represent anything i've talked about for 30 years. nonintervention, foreign policy, free markets. no child left behind. i mean, he doesn't stand for any of those things. how could i reject everything i've talked about for 30 years and say now it's all over. unity is the most important thing. now i endorse john mccain. nobody would understand that. i certainly would have a difficult time adapting to that.

:: the flip side of that coin, you are the only republican calling for a withdraw from iraq. if you're not going to become president and be in a position to affect that, would they be better off voting for the democratic candidate?

:: i don't think so i don't think they're very sincere. if you look at obama's voting record, he's voted not to end the war. he's voted to finance the war. his rhetoric is playing to the people that come my way but he is every bit as much of an -- he wants to send more troops into afghanistan. he wants to broaden the military. i think it's a fraud what he's talking about when he wants to really get out of iraq. i think that's politics.

:: all right. well congressman ron paul from texas this morning. still in the race sort of i guess is the way that we could best put that. thanks for being with us. we look forward to your continued participation and future appearances on this program.

:: thank you, john.

:: all right. we'll talk to you soon.

[limequat]

Paul leaves open door to third-party bid, unlikely to support McCain
David Edwards and Nick Juliano
Published: Monday March 10, 2008



:: no. it's not over. it is certainly winding down. there are a lot less primaries left. super tuesday has passed. mccain has the number. if you're in a campaign for only gaining power, that's one thing. if you're in a campaign to influence ideas and future of the country, the campaign is never over. this is a tremendous vehicle for us. we have gotten 350,000 people together. i tell you what, they don't want to quit. this is just the beginning. they're very much involved in influencing the party and getting involved and becoming candidates. so the true revolution on the change of the party as well as change of the country is ongoing. we feel very good about it which means i'm still in the race but certainly in manner that is less energetic than it was six months ago.



What? Paul HAS to know that this isn't true.
Is he playing games here?

[ItsTime]

In the interview he did today with CNN he did not answer NO to running as an indie. He said that Republicans deserve a conservative to vote for.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sN9E3TIbRNU about 3 mins in.

[SteveMartin]

The Republicans will STILL have a conservative to vote for when they (and he) decide we must put country above party, and run an Independent campaign with a goal of WINNING.

[Banana]

And for all I know, he's probably waiting to see grassroots get off the ass and do something about it.

Online polls and petitions are all good and well but they don't translate into anything substantial. If you are serious about it, let's see some action.

Right now, he's still running on Republican nomination, so I don't think he can just jump ship, but I already proposed in previous page that grassroots form a committee that works independently of Ron Paul to gain ballot access, get pledges for votes in November, etc. as this works out to benefit either way: 1) RP go to convention and says "Gee whiz, those people are hard up for a conservatives, they've started petitioning without me. I would imagine it's a safe bet that they won't be voting GOP... unless I'm the nominee" or 2) GOP continues to have its head buried all way up in their ass, so RP just needs to jump, hop and skip over to already organized run and coast.

[SteveMartin]

Banana,

I like it. What have you done so far?

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I've been listening to Ron Paul Revolution Radio for awhile today. In the last couple hours alone, I heard numerous callers and hosts clamoring for an independent run moneybomb and ballot drive. Nice to see the support for this type of candidacy is high across the Ron Paulosphere, perhaps even moreso than what's here on this forum.

[IDefendThePlatform]

I've been listening to Ron Paul Revolution Radio for awhile today. In the last couple hours alone, I heard numerous callers and hosts clamoring for an independent run moneybomb and ballot drive. Nice to see the support for this type of candidacy is high across the Ron Paulosphere, perhaps even moreso than what's here on this forum.

An indepent run moneybomb is a great idea. I'm in. Also, doing a ballot drive and showing Dr. P the signatures would send a big message.

I personally have been emailing Dr. P and the Constitution Party to ask for a third party run. I know he has said no, but I still think he could be convinced if the support were impressive enough. It is by FAR our best chance, in my opinion.

Beg Dr. P to run Indy/Third Party:

http://www.ronpaul2008.com/contact/form

Beg the Constistution Party to draft Dr. P as their nominee at their convention on April 26th in Kansas City:

https://secure.giftwrapplus.org/cpnc/eu/contactus/

[Russellk30]

bump!

[SteveMartin]

Constitution and Libertarian can be considered a done deal, if Bob Barr is on the ticket...BB wrote last night to say he would definitely call me today...The email was titled "status."

(I've heard that before though...)

[Madison]

We need to organize state groups to collect signatures for ballot access in each state. Existing precinct leaders and other grassroots volunteers can be used to collect signatures. This is all we have to do to get Ron on the ballot as an Independent. Theoretically we could get Ron elected without him ever even announcing an Independent candidacy or having any kind of centralized campaign whatsoever.

Keep this thread bumped!

[SteveMartin]

bumped!

[Alex Libman]

He should run third party, but if he can't, he should please, PLEASE endorse a third party nominee and campaign for him/her as much as possible. If the LP could get 5% in this election, that would be a revolutionary leap and it could build on that momentum for 2012 and beyond!

[SteveMartin]

Why Libertarian? He's closer to the Constitutional Party in many areas.

[Russellk30]

Why Libertarian? He's closer to the Constitutional Party in many areas.

I would be ok with either. Maybe both! But I am a bit more of a libertarian and believe that morality did not originate from divinity, so I would prefer the Libertarian Party for purely selfish reasons.

[IDefendThePlatform]

I would be ok with either. Maybe both! But I am a bit more of a libertarian and believe that morality did not originate from divinity, so I would prefer the Libertarian Party for purely selfish reasons.

Here's hoping he gets nominated by both Constitution and Libertarian parties. Get everybody pulling in the same direction and we will get the best results.

[Russellk30]

"Bad: EVEN IF he could win, changing the GOP is more important-so don't piss them off."

That never gets old! Even if Ron Paul could win the presidency outside of the Republican Party, it would still be a bad idea. GOP or bust!

[colecrowe]

still 2/3rds in favor!

Boy I wish we would organize and do something like this (but all over the country)--man we could make some amazing impact! Imagine how much we could spread the message and recruit new people!:

Nader Campaign Asks for Money to Get Petition-Gatherers to New Mexico Quote:
New Mexico, here we come.

We are planning to send eight road trippers into New Mexico to get Nader/Gonzalez on the ballot there.

They will need to collect 7,000 signatures in two weeks.

Our goal is to raise $10,000 by Wednesday night to fund the New Mexico ballot drive.

If we raise the $10,000 by Wednesday midnight, the road trippers will leave for New Mexico on Thursday morning.

We're looking for 100 donors to give $100 each.

So, become one of the 100 New Mexico pioneers.

Give $100 now and send our young volunteers into New Mexico to secure the ballot for Nader/Gonzalez.

We're moving across the country to give Americans a choice:

for single payer national health insurance,

for cutting the bloated military budget,

for solar energy first, and not nuclear power, and

for reversing U.S. policy in the Middle East.

One state at a time, we will give Americans a voice with the Nader/Gonzalez progressive agenda.

Let's get a good jump in New Mexico.

Please, become a New Mexico pioneer now.

Become one of the New Mexico 100 who give $100 each.

As soon as we hit our $10,000 goal, the road trippers will be on their way.

Thank you for your ongoing and generous support.

Onward

The Nader Team

[Madison]

Bump for the Indy run.

[SteveMartin]

Well RP still sounded exactly the same on Cavuto yesterday. Not ruling it out entirely, but coming as close to doing so as you can with the English language without actually doing so.

Bob Barr never called back yesterday. No new emails fro him either to report...

[defe07]

I'd really like us to have the Libertarian and Constitutional parties (plus the state third parties) to endorse Paul for an independent run. Just imagine Dr. Paul going to the Republican Convention with the endorsements of the Libertarians and Constitutionalists plus ballot access in every state plus lots of money!

[colecrowe]

BB wrote an article about domestic spying tho:
http://www.ajc.com/blogs/content/shared-blogs/ajc/barrcode/entries/2008/03/12/cast_wary_eye_on_surveillance.html

[colecrowe]

bump :)

[gerryb]

Here's hoping he gets nominated by both Constitution and Libertarian parties. Get everybody pulling in the same direction and we will get the best results.

QFT

[naga_warrior]

I think the grassroots should push to get him on the ballot in every state. That way, even if he doesn't want to run independent, we have someone we feel we can vote for. Also by doing this, it allows him to stay in the republican race until the convention at which time he could announce that he is running independent. I think it would give the best of both worlds. We can write him in, but as many people have said, it wont be counted right away, if at all. And it sure wont be reported.

I am rather confused by him as of late though, because if the convention was all that mattered to him, you would think he would say it in plain English that he wasn't going to run 3rd party or independent. He has to know about all the people calling for an independent run, so if he was 100% about not doing it, why wouldn't he just say it?

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I think the grassroots should push to get him on the ballot in every state. That way, even if he doesn't want to run independent, we have someone we feel we can vote for. Also by doing this, it allows him to stay in the republican race until the convention at which time he could announce that he is running independent. I think it would give the best of both worlds. We can write him in, but as many people have said, it wont be counted right away, if at all. And it sure wont be reported.

I am rather confused by him as of late though, because if the convention was all that mattered to him, you would think he would say it in plain English that he wasn't going to run 3rd party or independent. He has to know about all the people calling for an independent run, so if he was 100% about not doing it, why wouldn't he just say it?

I think he isn't that clear because he's always had an independent bid of some sort in the back of his mind. The most telling case of all was when Russert badgered him for awhile about the third party question on the Meet the Press interview in January. Ron Paul refused to completely rule it out, saying he wanted "wiggle room" on the issue.

Whether or not Ron Paul is more, less, or similarly inclined to run indy now is another question. We can't really know how his feelings have changed on it the past few months. More than anything, however, I think an indy run is contingent upon us. And that's something we know Dr. Paul has held solidly for a long time: We are the revolution. He is part of it, as our spokesman and experienced guide.

If we want Ron Paul to run independent, then nothing will speak louder than actions. Getting him on the ballots as a "best of both worlds" option would do it through our own initiatives. Fighting like hell to get the nominations of the Libertarians and Constitution Party (preferably both!) would also send a strong message. Even bombing Ron Paul's campaign with messages encouraging him to stay in until November, while starting ballot drives, would probably suffice.

Ron Paul is leaving the ball in our court. Proponents of an indy run of any sort must act quick to begin petitioning, collecting ballot signatures, and encouraging our friends in third parties to support Ron Paul over their favorite son candidates otherwise destined for .5% of the vote. We need to get a good site up to do this thing and keep us organized. Let's make it happen!

[colecrowe]

I really think we really need to do this, if not for anything else (I mean, I do think he could win it, and at least it would do so much for the movement) --but we need to do it because we have the perfect chance this cycle to establish that something can and should be offered outside of the two party BS structure. Imagine how much better it would be for independent candidates now and in two years and in 2012?

Ron Paul running idy will grow this movement and spread this message 100 times more than it has already (because we were stuck in the worst box--the GOP, which is 80% pro-war, anti-civil liberties, fox-news watching!).

It will expose more people to the message of liberty. And it will motivate and embolden people to fight the two-party system and to think, vote, and run independent.

We should fight. We must fight.

We are letting the movement die.

What can we do? Please lets pledge to fight, and start fighting.

Ron Paul independent for President!

[colecrowe]

bump

[Madison]

Bump for the Indy run.

[Bro.Butch]

New Libertarian Lists Survey (3/5-11/08) shows LP nomination is Ron's for the taking, which would free up money from ballot access to go toward TV ads.

http://small-government-solutions.com/LibertarianListsPage1.html

It wouldn't even be a hard fight ! :)


I think he isn't that clear because he's always had an independent bid of some sort in the back of his mind. The most telling case of all was when Russert badgered him for awhile about the third party question on the Meet the Press interview in January. Ron Paul refused to completely rule it out, saying he wanted "wiggle room" on the issue.

Whether or not Ron Paul is more, less, or similarly inclined to run indy now is another question. We can't really know how his feelings have changed on it the past few months. More than anything, however, I think an indy run is contingent upon us. And that's something we know Dr. Paul has held solidly for a long time: We are the revolution. He is part of it, as our spokesman and experienced guide.

If we want Ron Paul to run independent, then nothing will speak louder than actions. Getting him on the ballots as a "best of both worlds" option would do it through our own initiatives. Fighting like hell to get the nominations of the Libertarians and Constitution Party (preferably both!) would also send a strong message. Even bombing Ron Paul's campaign with messages encouraging him to stay in until November, while starting ballot drives, would probably suffice.

Ron Paul is leaving the ball in our court. Proponents of an indy run of any sort must act quick to begin petitioning, collecting ballot signatures, and encouraging our friends in third parties to support Ron Paul over their favorite son candidates otherwise destined for .5% of the vote. We need to get a good site up to do this thing and keep us organized. Let's make it happen!

[SteveMartin]

INDY, RON!!!

2/3ds of your most devoted demand it!

[SteveMartin]

Why are we letting 1/3 discourage us??

Listen folks, it is a fact that RP has never said he wouldn't, only that he would be guided by his supporters. That's us!

Get busy.

[SteveMartin]

I am going to lay it out now straight from the mouth of someone to whom Ron Paul owes FAR MORE than he owes to Kent Snyder.

Ron Paul was talked into running by KS in order to build a movement, and perhaps to reinvigorate a 501c.3 he was in charge of running. Dr. Paul went along with the plan and was as shocked as anyone when it took off the way it did.

However, at this point, Ron Paul has a moral obligation to those who worked so hard to support him believing he was a serious candidate for the Presidency.

They were never told that their donations, their blood sweat and tears, their jobs, their homes, their livelihoods were all going to some limited "movement building" effort. It is not fraud without an intent to defraud, but the effect on these people was/is the same (at least, as we have shown in this thread, in the minds of 2/3 of his supporters.)

AGAIN RON PAUL HAS A MORAL OBLIGATION TO RUN FOR PRESIDENT. It could be argued that he has done what he could, and perhaps even fairly so. It could be argued he fulfills this obligation by remaining in the Republican race. However, without exploring the Independent run, he has inadvertently damaged thousands of people who were deceived. He must run to retain his integrity if it can be shown he can do so while also running for Congress as a Republican.

[Aratus]

there seems to be two schools of thought. i sorta wonder
if someone around Ron Paul can run this November in his place...
a Rand Paul/Dennis Kucinich ticket might be cool. or even
a Dennis Kucinich/Rand Paul ticket! mcCain might be happy even
if he looses utimately, the whitehouse. i think we need kucinich
on a ballot to pull VERY LIBERAL people away from ralph nader...

[SteveMartin]

Paul/Barr or Barr/Paul, and we win (at least if they count the votes.)

[SteveMartin]

bump

[IDefendThePlatform]

Paul/Barr or Barr/Paul, and we win (at least if they count the votes.)

I'm in favor of a Paul/Barr ticket. Barr brings publicity, gravitas of a longtime politician (a good thing here), and good spokesperson skills. With both the Constitution and Libertarian parties fully behind them, and possibly the Reform party, they could definitely get the 15% poll numbers needed to enter the october debates. That alone would be worth it. Those debates would reach more people than we have reached this entire primary season! A third party run would be absolutely huge for this movement. I'm going to keep doing everything I can to encourage this. Ron has said that he does not intend to run third party, but he has also said repeatedly that he'll listen to the will of his supporters. Please let him know he has our support if he continues his campaign as a third party candidate!

[SteveMartin]

And we are not asking him to run third party! We are asking him to run as an INDEPENDENT, and then go after the endorsements of the various 3rd parties.



Still got 2/3 here. Why does the 1/3 strut around on these boards like they think they've won the debate??

[SteveMartin]

bump

[SteveMartin]

bump

[Revolution9]

And we are not asking him to run third party! We are asking him to run as an INDEPENDENT, and then go after the endorsements of the various 3rd parties.



Still got 2/3 here. Why does the 1/3 strut around on these boards like they think they've won the debate??

Because they have.. It is quite simple really. The Revolution occurs at the convention.. You peoples find that so hard to digest like it is made of bulletproof neutronium and no amount of worrywarted stomach acid will put a dent in it.

HTH
Randy

[SteveMartin]

They have? lol...1/3 does not win anything.

Ron Paul has a moral imperative to launch a real campaign for the presidency with a real campaign manager.

He owes that to all of us who worked so hard for what we later discovered was some giant database-building operation.

[Revolution9]

They have? lol...1/3 does not win anything.

Ron Paul has a moral imperative to launch a real campaign for the presidency with a real campaign manager.

He owes that to all of us who worked so hard for what we later discovered was some giant database-building operation.

Bullshit..to put it quite bluntly. He said NO! last night on Coast to Coast.. He has no obllgations to fulfill your wet dream. Why not back him in what HE has decided. You clowns are part of the derailment contingent we have to continually work against to keep on track with what Dr Paul is doing..

Randy

[liberteebell]

Because they have.. It is quite simple really. The Revolution occurs at the convention.. You peoples find that so hard to digest like it is made of bulletproof neutronium and no amount of worrywarted stomach acid will put a dent in it.

HTH
Randy

I don't see this as mutually exclusive. I am, and I intend to continue to work within the republican party. BUT, I'd give anything to see Ron Paul make an independent run.

I am one of the "you peoples" who actually thought we were working with Ron Paul to *peacefully* save our country; I actually believe that this may be our last chance. Things sure are looking pretty grim.

It may be possible to save the republican party but I don't have great hopes for it to happen in this election cycle. It's going to take time if it's going to happen at all. The party of neo-cons needs a serious lesson and in Ron Paul's own words, conservatives need someone to vote for, if for no other reason than to send a very loud message.

I half-jokingly say that I'm going to write Ron Paul in, even if I have to take my sharpie and write his name in big, bold letters on the diebold screen. :p

A Ron Paul is once in a lifetime. His understanding of and adherence to principle is a near incredible feat. Indeed, I am old enough that I seriously doubt there will be anyone in my lifetime who will come anywhere close to Ron Paul's record. I have children and I'd like them to grow up in what the United States is supposed to be, not some police state, empire building, war-mongering, socialist nightmare.

I have not yet given up hope and desire that his name will be on the ballot in November. My yard is still full of signs, my car covered with bumper stickers and I wear some sort of Ron Paul gear every day. My primary was February 12th.

So for me, our time is now and I don't care a whit about what label Ron Paul runs under. I agree with Steve. Sue me.

[Revolution9]

I don't see this as mutually exclusive. I am, and I intend to continue to work within the republican party. BUT, I'd give anything to see Ron Paul make an independent run.

I am one of the "you peoples" who actually thought we were working with Ron Paul to *peacefully* save our country; I actually believe that this may be our last chance. Things sure are looking pretty grim.

It may be possible to save the republican party but I don't have great hopes for it to happen in this election cycle. It's going to take time if it's going to happen at all. The party of neo-cons needs a serious lesson and in Ron Paul's own words, conservatives need someone to vote for, if for no other reason than to send a very loud message.

I half-jokingly say that I'm going to write Ron Paul in, even if I have to take my sharpie and write his name in big, bold letters on the diebold screen. :p

A Ron Paul is once in a lifetime. His understanding of and adherence to principle is a near incredible feat. Indeed, I am old enough that I seriously doubt there will be anyone in my lifetime who will come anywhere close to Ron Paul's record. I have children and I'd like them to grow up in what the United States is supposed to be, not some police state, empire building, war-mongering, socialist nightmare.

I have not yet given up hope and desire that his name will be on the ballot in November. My yard is still full of signs, my car covered with bumper stickers and I wear some sort of Ron Paul gear every day. My primary was February 12th.

So for me, our time is now and I don't care a whit about what label Ron Paul runs under. I agree with Steve. Sue me.

Ron is running on the Republican ticket. Steganography points to an upset. If you are the same liberteebelle posting at RMN you should be aware of this. Dr Paul was not holding the David and Goliath court card in Newsweek just for shits and giggles. I have been watching and analysing this game for about 30 years now.. There are very serious undercurrents in the background ready to erupt on the world stage. When Swiss bankers pick RP for Pres then you know something serious is occurring.. If you pay attention to international spheres of influence and forget the US Powers that Were. Also Ben Fulford and the Chinese secret societies are putting the serious clamp on the illuminati clowns currently.

Ron will not win if he goes independent. There is not one indicator that can be brought forward that points in this direction. McCain would LOVE for him to run independent. He then steamrolls all of our hard work in the delegate phase of this operation. So we get hundreds and hundreds of delegates by stealth and other means to the convention. No RP there.. Then fucking what.. masturbate all over the McCain delegates? Great strategy..

Randy

[SteveMartin]

Bullshit..to put it quite bluntly. He said NO! last night on Coast to Coast.. He has no obllgations to fulfill your wet dream. Why not back him in what HE has decided. You clowns are part of the derailment contingent we have to continually work against to keep on track with what Dr Paul is doing..

Randy

Double BS!

He took money from thousands under false pretenses, unless he decides at some point to make a REAL campaign run (not led by a gay Buddhist.)

Otherwise this whole thing borders on fraud.

I am not blaming Dr. Paul, but the fact is he DOES now have an obligation to make a real run for the White House.

Someone needs to stand up for the folks who sold their homes, or their vehicles, or who quit their jobs, or who went into debt to support something totally different than what they were led to believe they were supporting...i.e. a "movement building foray," and data collection effort.

[liberteebell]

Ron is running on the Republican ticket. Steganography points to an upset. If you are the same liberteebelle posting at RMN you should be aware of this. Dr Paul was not holding the David and Goliath court card in Newsweek just for shits and giggles. I have been watching and analysing this game for about 30 years now.. There are very serious undercurrents in the background ready to erupt on the world stage. When Swiss bankers pick RP for Pres then you know something serious is occurring.. If you pay attention to international spheres of influence and forget the US Powers that Were. Also Ben Fulford and the Chinese secret societies are putting the serious clamp on the illuminati clowns currently.

Ron will not win if he goes independent. There is not one indicator that can be brought forward that points in this direction. McCain would LOVE for him to run independent. He then steamrolls all of our hard work in the delegate phase of this operation. So we get hundreds and hundreds of delegates by stealth and other means to the convention. No RP there.. Then fucking what.. masturbate all over the McCain delegates? Great strategy..

Randy

Sorry, I don't know what RMN is so it's not me and I'm not aware of the cryptic message. I do hope something serious is happening in the world and yes, I do know that ANYTHING can happen in a day, week, month; let alone, months.

You say Ron will not win if he goes independent. Well, maybe not. But you surely realize that RP has broad appeal to Americans of any stripe, probably at present, least of all republicans. The beauty of this entire campaign was the microcosm of America that we represented. You also have to surely realize that the republican label is damaged goods thanks to King jorge booosh.

In my little corner of the world, and I talked to many, many people during my months of collecting signatures to get RP on the ballot in VA, the fact that he is an "R" was an instant turn-off for a whole lot of people. On the flip side, now that the dems are smearing each other to death and mc100year war is the presumptive nominee for the repubs, I'm hearing this statement over and over again: "there's nobody to vote for". Anecdotal, I know but still...this can't be the only place this is happening.