Petition

[colecrowe]

I got 140 signatures today, in less than 4 hours--I talked to a ton of people and gave out a big box of RP literature! Most of the people who signed barely knew about Ron Paul (at UNR and in my neighborhood door-to-door). Everybody at my work (the national guard armory) and of course my family and friends and my friends from meetup knew him. 53 people said they would "definitely vote" for him. 21 people said they would definitely donate, and the total came to $5,686 (avg. $406--so big because there's a 1000, a 2000, and a 1776.00). 41 of the signers put Republican as their political party, 39 Democrat, 52 unaffiliated/independent.

I will upload scans of the petition forms, blacking out column 1 (name & street address) and phone number. Please do the same.

Disclaimer: I have done a TON, financially and otherwise for RP, and I still am: On Saturday at 8AM I am attending our county convention (Douglas County, NV) with many family members and friends who are also delegates and alternates. And we plan on going to state and then being one of 34 and go to St. Paul. So I am not giving up on restoring the GOP. But like the founders, I think we need to get away from parties--that's more important. And I am a real supporter, because I would give thousands more and do tons more if he declared indy.

What is the subtitle of this forum? So all you GOP lovers, stop giving up, and let's get the job done.

Starting tomorrow, I will be setting up booths with Ron Paul literature and also walking around gathering signatures at the local university, community colleges, stores, etc. Also, I can get scores of sigs at my work at the National Guard Armory. I can get scores from family and friends. I can get about 150 from the meetup groups.

If you want the PDF, PM me.

After I make a backup copy, I will be sending these to the campaign. I will post the images online with all personal info blacked out.

to zoom in on image go here, zoom is to top-right of image: http://picasaweb.google.com/croweswedding/RP/photo#5174763392170997490

http://lh4.google.com/croweswedding/R9Bz41sMNvI/AAAAAAAAB6k/BYQ1RmXaw3Y/rppetition.PNG?imgmax=512

You still think something can happen at the convention? Here... The important part of this is: 1. 80% of delegates come from Primary states, 2. more than 80% of those delegates will be pledged, 3. those states are almost all winner-take-all, 4. McCain gets to research and approve (choose basically) all those delegates, 5. Ron Paul only got 5% average in all those primaries, and did not win any of them outright.

The most important part is: 86%-95% of the voters and delegates voted for a pro-war, non-Paul candidate. Even if we won half of Romney's people and half of Huckabee's people (extremely, ridiculously, stupidly unlikely) we would still only have like 30% of the delegates. And 80% of Republicans pro-war (thus very anti-Paul), so they would never vote for Ron Paul--even if McCain died, and Romney and Huckabee--it doesn't matter--they would choose many other people before they would ever choose Ron Paul.

http://lh6.google.com/croweswedding/R9DMGVsMNwI/AAAAAAAAB6s/ra6HT0lnrhI/votes.PNGhttp://lh6.google.com/croweswedding/R9DMGVsMNwI/AAAAAAAAB6s/ra6HT0lnrhI/s800/votes.PNG


Absolutely nothing will come from an indy run. You will only have a media blackout worse than it is now, and an even lower chance of winning the general election that now.

Why do you think that? What chance do we have of winning now? The same chance as Kucinich winning the Dem nomination: negative 10 percent.

Ross Perot only spent 64 million on his campaign--a little over 100 million in todays dollars. NOT BILLIONS. So anybody that says so is a fing idiot!--actually they are probably dishonest. And Ron Paul's grassroots is a hundred times more devoted and ready to sacrifice and fight. And the nay-sayers will say "We can't get on the ballots--it's impossible!" Oh, but Ross Perot could? Morons. And Ross Perot was in first place by 9 points (or 8--whatever it was) before he dropped out and said he was threatened (and he still got 19% of the vote--which is great--and Ron Paul is way more amazing than Perot, with way bigger support. And the conditions are similar--there was a recession in '92--now 70% of Americans polled think the economy is bad and likely to get worse, inflation is soaring and gas is still painfully expensive. And then you have the war. The Dems have the war, but they can't get the fiscal, immigration, gun, and school conservatives. The Republicans have what they have (i would argue, not much, with their current candidate, except they would be guaranteed 90% of the pro-war vote (so 30% maybe))--but 72% of Americans want the war to end.

the only reason Ron Paul wouldn't run indy is if he doesn't get overwhelming support for it. That is the only reason he ran in this race. If hundreds of thousands of people write him letters saying they want him to run, they will send money, and get signatures, and canvass, then he will do it. As one of those soldiers that has given to him and worked for his campaign, and knowing that so many of my buddies in Iraq and soon to go back want him to be President so bad, I feel like he will consider that and do it for us troops (and of course for everyone else)--but I mean, it has to mean something incredibly huge that the nation's troops want him as their commander in chief so badly! Please Mr. Paul, please run, please fight, and we will fight with you for a win...

If Ron Paul declared an indy run (after March 4th of course) then he could raise 25 million right off the bat. Everyone I know would give twice what they already have. We could get 200,000 precinct captains and get the 38 states back that are useless to us now in the Repub race because they've already voted, and have 7 months to canvass. Run a couple nationwide amazing infomercials.

Country over party. Remember what all the founders (the good ones) said about parties? Do you think they'd agree that Ron Paul should care more about offending the GOP than fighting for the Constitution, freedom, and government of the people?
* * *


We could have an entire forum, NOT A SUBFORUM OF G.C., devoted to "Independent/Third Party Run"... (I'm definitely for indy...but it doesn't matter for the Forum.)

Then we could give every state a ballot subforum. We could have 1 master "ballot" subforum for talk about meta-ballot issues, like legal challenges, places to find sources about ballot issues, etc.

There could be 1 main subforum for general discussion.

This poll is about numbers, not necessarily percentage. If a ton of us want one, that would be great to know.


March 4, 2008: Paul defeats Peden

March 5, 2008: Paul announces independent run

April 15, 2008: Paul sets new, single-day online fundraising record

June 1, 2008: Paul at 15% in multiple opinion polls

July 31, 2008: Paul, with double-digit support, accepts presidential debates invitation

September 1, 2008: McCain, Clinton and Paul in three-way tie in national polls

October 31, 2008: Race still neck-and-neck-and-neck

November 4, 2008: Paul wins

November 5, 2008: Paul resigns TX-14 U.S. House seat, Peden the favorite to win special election

January 20, 2009: Paul sworn in as 44th U.S. President

Well, you guys can go ahead and not give a crap about your country, but my brother and I are going to Iraq in August, so I actually give a crap, because I'd like Ron Paul to start bringing us home quickly in January, and then he could start sending us after al-Queda and Osama, etc. So, yeah, go ahead and call me "not a real RP supporter" or say that I "don't think he can win"--because I actually think it is incredibly important that he be our president, and I absolutely think he can win as an independent, and I care much, much more about ending the Iraq war, restoring freedom, and saving our economy than I do about the GOP. And how many Americans would love to start to take down the horrible two-party system? Most. (INCLUDING Ron Paul--the stupidest, most incredible thing that people use as an argument against an indy run, is that "Ron Paul has always been a Republican--he's the true Republican--he would lose credibility with the GOP (just forget that he has almost none now because 85% of Repubs are rabidly pro-war and most his primary votes came from new registrees)--blah, blah, blah--BUT they forget, Ron Paul hates the party system, just like the founders did. And what of his undying loyalty to the wonderful GOP? BS: he resigned from the GOP--and he's a lifetime member of the Libertarian Party.
http://lh6.google.com/croweswedding/R89LIlsMNtI/AAAAAAAAB6M/704CLpJKn-E/rppetition.PNG

[RonPaulFanInGA]

We need to draft Paul as an independent candidate. Start getting him on the ballot everywhere we can. Put up a sub-forum for this maybe too.

Supposedly, the best state to start is Louisiana. It takes just 500 dollars, no signatures required, to get a candidate's name on the November ballot.

[colecrowe]

AHHHHHHH STOP IT GOT DAMN IT!!!!!

HE WON'T GET THE HUGE SUPPORT YOU THINK HE WILL IN ANY POLL!!!!

STOP BEING DELUSIONAL!

You are part of the people that make the grassroots look like idiots and lunatics. Fucking stop it.

Why do you say that? If so, why are you here and why did you give huge amounts of time and money to Ron Paul? So he could get huge support and win the Presidency. We just went after the completely wrong base, GOP voters, who are 85% die-hard pro Iraq War and pro USA PATRIOT Act.

You just said he won't get any big amount of support--so, do you think he is going to win at the Convention? How is he going to do that, without huge support? And if he did, 70% of Republican voters would still be against him and laugh at the Convention results. But only a complete psychotic retard could ever think Ron Paul will win at the Convention, let alone get to speak at it. Speak at it? He is against the war and against McCain, he said he wouldn't endorse him.

They will not let him speak. And what good will it do. Buchanan spoke at the convention.

Listen, people are constantly asking me, "When is Ron Paul going to announce that he is running independent?" They are desperate for it.


If you want Ron Paul to run for 3rd party then you are unfaithful and coward!

I'm so tired of this crap!

If you don't want Ron Paul to run indy, then you don't want what's best for this country. If you don't think he can win, then you are being willfully blind, and contradicting what you thought for so long: it was going to be extremely, awesomely tough for him to win the Nomination considering that 85% of GOP voters were for the war, but you supported him then, and you thought he could win it, and win the general if he got it.

And, by the way, how about you go join the military and join me and all those troops that were trying their hardest to send a message to Ron Paul and the country by donating overwhelmingly to him. Aholes.

I have given so much to Ron Paul, but I also have hope that he will win the white house... even if it means going iNDY, which I think is, by far, the best option.

You want me to put up or shut up, well then here (this is besides the over 300 cold calls and 200 houses I've canvassed, plus more crap--this doesn't count the $100 for the MLK money bomb, the $51 for the Anniversary money bomb, the 250 for the danged blimp, the 250 for something else I don't even remember now, plus 100 here and another 100 there, plus about 75 for my meetup collection baskets!):

this doesn't include another 100 and 100 for his congressional seat

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=name&lname=crowe&fname=justin&search=Search
Donor Contribution Address
Justin Crowe

http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Soldier (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Soldier)
Nevada Army National Guard (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Nevada+Army+National+Guard)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$752
2572 HEYBOURNE RD (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=2572+HEYBOURNE+RD&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV
Here's my wife: $201

Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Army Spouse (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Army+Spouse)
Army Spouse (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Army+Spouse)


Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Retired, Veteran (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Retired%2C+Veteran)
US Army Veteran, WWII (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=US+Army+Veteran%2C+WWII)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$1,776
2572 HEYBOURNE RD (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=2572+HEYBOURNE+RD&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV
Here's my father in law:

Donor Contribution Address
http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/gmaps/images/elephant.png Veteran (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=occ&occ=Veteran)
Veteran Army National Guard (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=emp&employer=Veteran+Army+National+Guard)
Updated
Q4/2007
Ron Paul (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/topics/Ron+Paul)
$201
1401 DOWNS DR (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=loc&addr=1401+DOWNS+DR&zip=89423)
Minden (http://fundrace.huffingtonpost.com/neighbors.php?type=city&city=Minden) NV

My dad's doesn't show up, even though he gave 100.




Paul has said repeatedly that he will not run 3rd party. Why would he lie to us like that?

No he hasn't!

He was absolutely right--and honest--to say that he "has no intention of going iNDEPENDENT or Third Party" because, right now (at least before today's results), his only intention is to win the Republican nomination. He 100% fully intends (or intended) to wholeheartedly run and try his best to win as a Republican while he is running as such, and he says so. He has NEVER, EVER said "I will not run iNDY". He has never, ever said "I will never run iNDY". But IF it becomes clear he cannot win the nomination, then he can go independent.

I would be very, very, very sad if he didn't go iNDY. He could win it, especially against Hillary (and she seems like the chosen one (it's all about the superdelegates).

Ron Paul said that he will continue to run as long as he continues to get support: canvassing and financing. He's not stupid. He will be able to see when continuing to run Republican will be a futile waste. Then if he has the support he mentioned, he will have to keep going. Key points:

1. A brokered convention is not going to happen.

2. Canvassing is done for almost all the states as of now, unless he goes iNDY. If he goes iNDY, on the other hand, we would have 7 months to canvass and get 200,000 plus precinct captains.

3. ...:

my dad said he'd donate another 500 to Paul (IF he announces 3rd party) (he donated 200 on Dec. 16th--but that was when it seemed like he REALLY could maybe, possibly win the Nom. I would donate 500 the day he declares (even though it will hurt financially), whereas I can't afford to give anymore (I gave just over a 1,100 in Q4 to the cause--so shut up) for his Republican run; and gramps would probably wager another 1776.00

The 2nd and 3rd tier, broader-base of supporters aren't (many or most of them) going to donate MORE--if they already have once--because TO THEM it is obvious or at least nearly certain that he's not going to get the Nom from the Republican party (I'm not saying I believe that--but they DO). However, they would be very willing and enthusiastic about supporting him in an iNDEPENDENT run.


**********
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/

July 20, 2007, 5:08 pm Poll: An Independent President (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/07/20/poll-an-independent-president/)

By Megan Thee (http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/author/mthee/)

In a New York Times/CBS News Poll taken last week, half of Americans said a president who is neither a Republican nor a Democrat could govern effectively.
And with 6 in 10 Republican primary voters and almost 4 in 10 Democratic primary voters saying they are not satisfied with their party’s current slate of candidates for the presidential nomination, the political environment could be ripe for an independent candidate to break into the race.
[THAT'S HALF]
Michael Bloomberg, a newly minted independent who says he’s not intent on making a run for the White House even though he just switched affiliations, is largely unknown by most Americans. Six in 10 registered voters said they haven’t heard enough about him yet to have an opinion; 9 percent view him favorably; 9 percent unfavorably; and 18 percent said they are undecided.
The current poll suggests that Americans are significantly more optimistic about the chances of a third-party president meeting with success, than they were in 1995 before the Bill Clinton-Bob Dole-Ross Perot contest. In the summer of 1995, just 30 percent of Americans said an independent president could govern effectively and 61 percent said such a president would encounter serious problems dealing with Congress.
Forty-four percent of those polled recently said such a president would have trouble dealing with Congress.

Independents and Republicans are significantly more supportive of a third-party president than are Democrats. Similarly, younger Americans are more open to the idea of an independent president — as respondent age increases, the incidence of those saying an independent could govern effectively decreases.


**********
Yeah--we couldn't get on the ballots WITH SEVEN MONTHS TO DO SO?! Whatever. What a bunch of crap. How the F did Perot do it? We have way more grassroots than he did. And DON'T SAY, "With his billions." He spent 65 million--look on wikipedia. What cost $65000000 in 1990 would cost $107,402,877.98 in 2007. source: http://www.westegg.com/inflation/infl.cgi


You know what's really "never gonna happen"? The Republican nomination. So for people that want ONE THING and one thing only--Ron Paul to be in the whitehouse--an iNDY run must be discussed. For all you that care more about "changing the GOP", fine--you can continue to argue your point that that would be better than a Ron Paul win in the General.


An independent run is virtually impossible.
The ballot access battle is ridiculously difficult and would never happen
if Ron Paul tried to go independent.

With the sheer numbers of grassroots supporters already keyed in
the feasibility of undercutting the MSM stranglehold in the general election exists.
The organization does not cease to exist - who wants to abandon hope?
Not while we are still organized - that would be nuts.
Let us keep this thing together - no matter what.

The biggest part of making a third-party run is already in place.

The only realistic choice is to go with the Libertarian Party.

I won't vote for anyone but Ron Paul, no matter what happens.

But all this is still premature - let's wait for the results.
It is only a few hours until all the rest of the cards are on the table.


**********
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html
FOX News Poll: Third Party President Good for Country

Thursday, June 28, 2007
By Dana Blanton
http://www.foxnews.com/images/foxnews_story.gif
E-MAIL STORY (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287190,00.html#)
PRINTER FRIENDLY VERSION (http://www.foxnews.com/printer_friendly_story/0,3566,287190,00.html)NEW YORK — Nearly half of Americans think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate (http://javascript%3cb%3e%3c/b%3E:siteSearch%28%27independent%20candidate%27%29 ;) won the 2008 presidential election, according to the latest FOX News Poll. And despite acknowledging the improbability of the candidate winning, a majority says they would consider voting for an independent for president.
Opinion Dynamics Corp. conducted the national telephone poll of 900 registered voters for FOX News from June 26 to June 27. The poll has a 3-point error margin.
More than twice as many voters think it would be good for the country if an independent candidate were to win the White House in 2008 than think it would be bad (45 percent good, 19 percent bad). In addition, there is rare partisan agreement on the issue as 42 percent of Democrats and 44 percent of Republicans think electing an independent candidate would be good for the country, as do 56 percent of self-described independents.
• Click here to view full results of the poll. (pdf) (http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/062807_release_web.pdf)
Furthermore, a 67 percent majority says they would consider casting their ballot for an independent — including more than 6 in 10 Democrats and Republicans.
Even so, most people believe independent candidates have little chance of success: 31 percent of voters think a qualified independent has a reasonable chance of winning a presidential election, while a 63 percent majority thinks it’s unlikely.
(Story continues below)
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FOX News Poll: Public Says Enforce Existing Immigration Laws (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,282375,00.html)Full-page FNC Poll Archive (http://www.foxnews.com/column_archive/0,2976,86,00.html)"It appears that many voters believe a vote for a candidate who has little chance of winning still is not a wasted vote," said Opinion Dynamics Vice President Lawrence Shiman. "A substantial percentage of both parties are willing to consider supporting independent candidacies regardless of the candidate’s chances of winning."
Given the amount of attention to New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg’s party affiliation switch from Republican to independent, and the subsequent speculation about him entering the 2008 race, the poll asked people how they would vote in a 3-way race.
The recent media coverage fails to move the numbers much from earlier in the month. Bloomberg’s 7 percent support is unchanged, and obviously puts him far behind the major party front-runners Democrat Hillary Clinton (39 percent) and Republican Rudy Giuliani (37 percent).
Paris Better Known Than Romney, Thompson
Among the presidential hopefuls, Giuliani is not only one of the best known, but he also continues to be viewed the most positively, receiving a 54 percent favorable rating. Most voters are also familiar with Republican candidate John McCain — 47 percent have a favorable opinion of him and only 5 percent don’t know him.
Republicans Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson are much less well known than the other Republican and Democratic candidates. In fact, more people say they have "never heard of" Thompson, Romney and Bloomberg, than Paris Hilton — only 7 percent of Americans were unable to express an opinion of her.
Today, even though one in five Americans (22 percent) say they have never heard of Romney, that represents a noticeable improvement from earlier this year when 43 percent didn’t know him (Jan. 30-31, 2007). However, as many voters have an unfavorable opinion of Romney (26 percent) as have a favorable opinion (25 percent). His favorable rating is 39 percent among Republicans.
Thompson’s name recognition is also picking up — 32 percent say they have never heard of him today, down from 53 percent in March. His favorable rating is 30 percent overall and 46 percent among Republicans, with 16 percent of all voters holding an unfavorable view.
For Bloomberg, 20 percent have never heard of him, an improvement from 35 percent last month (15-16 May 2007). Bloomberg’s current favorable rating is 23 percent, with 24 percent holding an unfavorable view. Attitudes toward Bloomberg are similar among Democrats (25 percent favorable) and Republicans (22 percent favorable).
The Democratic contenders are well known to voters, as majorities are able to offer an opinion on each of them. About half of Americans have a favorable view of John Edwards (49 percent), Clinton (46 percent) and Barack Obama (46 percent). Al Gore’s favorable rating is 48 percent.
For a political comparison, President Bush’s current favorable rating is 37 percent and virtually all Americans express an opinion.
For a popular culture comparison, 7 percent of Americans say they have a favorable opinion of Paris Hilton (73 percent unfavorable) and 7 percent have never heard of her.
Standings in the Primaries
In the race for the Republican nomination, Giuliani retains the leader spot at 29 percent followed by McCain at 17 percent, Thompson at 15 percent, Romney at 8 percent and Newt Gingrich at 8 percent. Giuliani is up 7 points from earlier this month, though still 10 percentage points down from 39 percent in February.
Among Democrats, Clinton strengthens her front-runner status with the support of 42 percent (up 6 points), followed by Obama at 19 percent (down 4 points), Gore at 14 percent and Edwards at 10 percent.
When Gore is taken out of the mix, Clinton’s standing improves to 47 percent, Obama 21 percent and Edwards 13 percent.
Where People Are Learning About The Candidates
Television clearly is the most popular place to get information about the presidential candidates, but there are certainly many other options these days. The poll finds that 88 percent of voters are getting information about the candidates from television coverage, 69 percent from newspapers and 51 percent radio coverage.
Internet news sites are a source for 38 percent of Americans, which is distinguished from these specific online sources: 11 percent say they use blogs, 7 percent YouTube and 4 percent use MySpace to learn about the candidates.
About twice as many Americans think Conservative radio talk shows (38 percent) have more influence on politics these days than Liberal Internet blogs (17 percent).
Finally, 53 percent of voters today think it is too early for the 2008 presidential candidates to be campaigning — up from 47 percent who thought so four months ago (February 13-14).

[colecrowe]

supporters of a Ron Paul Presidency (an indy run...not just supporters of the GOP like so many others here):

erin moore
PennCustom4RP
BuddyRey
DFF
RonPaulFanInGA
Alex Libman
Andrew76
speciallyblend
mketcher
Airborn
rockandrollsouls
RollOn2day
Aidyl
Lovecraftian4Paul
Russellk30
FluffyUnbound
IDefendThePlatform
morerocklesstalk
TNFreedom
Madison
Seadeus
ndega360
Peace&Freedom
LibertyRevolution
Drknows
ronpaulyourmom
lonestarguy
colecrowe

=28

Please find more and more names of people on here that support an indy run.

Wait 'til March 4th, because things might turn around between now and then, and most importantly, because his congressional primary is on that day, and he needs to win that to maintain credibility or whatever.

But we need a way to show the people's support, in a huge way, for an independent run. We have to prove it to him. Obviously, it's his choice--duh. But he would have never started running in the first place if it wasn't for the humongous clamoring and promise of support from so many people. (I know we already have www.RonPaulWhiteHouse.com (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com/), but I am thinking something way, way better and bigger.)

I have figured out, and so have many of you and many more on here, some really great facts and arguments that prove that an independent run would be wise and could be very successful. I am gathering them all together. Please help me in that. Please get more and more names of those who will support us.

I want to start a site like "draft Ron Paul for independent" or somesuch. I want people to be able to print off pledge forms and opinion survey forms that they can take around to family and coworkers, etc. Then they could come online and update us with their results, like people do on the precinct captain site.

I know from my experience that scores of people would be extremely excited about and supportive of an indy run. Tons of family, friends, and coworkers (especially my army buddies--tons of them would give a little cash) would give a bunch more (they aren't going to give anymore to him now--that's for sure) and my wife and I and a few other people I know would canvass and call.

So, anyway, let's get something started. Please get back to me and recruit others.

[colecrowe]

But we're not real supporters because were willing to drop everything to help Ron Paul become president, and donate tons more money, and because we care more about the country than the GOP (we, like the founders, hate parties and love our country more).


We need to draft Paul as an independent candidate. Start getting him on the ballot everywhere we can. Put up a sub-forum for this maybe too.

Supposedly, the best state to start is Louisiana. It takes just 500 dollars, no signatures required, to get a candidate's name on the November ballot.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

Nice going, Colecrow. I dare say actual pen and paper signatures, scanned or directly sent in, will send a very strong message to the campaign. I will be circulating some of these within my circle of local supporters and among independents too.

Now, we just need something on the internet to pledge support too. Something organized, that can actually take off. I realize we already have www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com but it just hasn't taken off in the way it should have.

[colecrowe]

We need something that lays out the case like I try to in my posts. And something more like the precinct captain program where people can download these petition forms, and where it instructs them how to do it, and where to send it, and it can keep track of the numbers, the pledges for voting, donating, and volunteering, post the proof, etc.


Nice going, Colecrow. I dare say actual pen and paper signatures, scanned or directly sent in, will send a very strong message to the campaign. I will be circulating some of these within my circle of local supporters and among independents too.

Now, we just need something on the internet to pledge support too. Something organized, that can actually take off. I realize we already have www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com (http://www.ronpaulwhitehouse.com) but it just hasn't taken off in the way it should have.

[colecrowe]

and then we need to get this idea and these forms to every meetup group

[colecrowe]

on the indy or third party question...my thoughts:

independent would be the only way to win. Libertarian caps it at 5- maybe 10%., guaranteed (open borders, legalize all drugs, abolish social security, pro NAFTA--why?--90% of people could never vote for that, let alone they already don't like the name "libertarian"--it's like libertine, hedonist, or some crap--yeah, I know Reagan said "a true conservative is a libertarian"--but that's not near enough. Constitution Party believes in Constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion nationwide--like a 13th Amendment for abortion--besides the fact that you won't get any dems with that, RP disagrees vehemently. Americans are ready to declare their independence--from the parties, the lobbying and special interests, the pro-amnesty Republican and the Dems who refused to end the war. And besides--if Ron Paul is anything, he is independent--he's always voted against his party. He disagrees with a ton of the Republican agenda, and the Libertarian agenda. He officially resigned from the Republican Party at one point.

[colecrowe]

what about www.RonPaulIndependent.com and www.RonPaulIndy.com (as a referrer)

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

on the indy or third party question...my thoughts:

independent would be the only way to win. Libertarian caps it at 5- maybe 10%., guaranteed (open borders, legalize all drugs, abolish social security, pro NAFTA--why?--90% of people could never vote for that, let alone they already don't like the name "libertarian"--it's like libertine, hedonist, or some crap--yeah, I know Reagan said "a true conservative is a libertarian"--but that's not near enough. Constitution Party believes in Constitutional amendment to outlaw abortion nationwide--like a 13th Amendment for abortion--besides the fact that you won't get any dems with that, RP disagrees vehemently. Americans are ready to declare their independence--from the parties, the lobbying and special interests, the pro-amnesty Republican and the Dems who refused to end the war. And besides--if Ron Paul is anything, he is independent--he's always voted against his party. He disagrees with a ton of the Republican agenda, and the Libertarian agenda. He officially resigned from the Republican Party at one point.

Agreed. An independent run also leaves Ron Paul open to endorsement by numerous third parties: Libertarians, the Constitution Party, the remnants of the Reform Party, and even the new Independence Party of America (it was formerly leaning toward Bloomberg, but the chairman recently sent a friendly letter to Ron Paul encouraging an indy run). The IPA in several states, since it's composed of the Independence Party of Minnesota (a powerhouse for a third party, the one former Gov. Jesse Ventura created) and the powerful Independence Party of New York, among others.

Running as an independent and supported by a coalition of multiple third parties (without being explicitly THEIR candidate), Ron Paul has a real chance of winning. He can make heavy inroads in taking independent support and conservative support away from McCain, and could even take down the Democrat. Especially if Nader and the Green Party candidate McKinney end up shaving a few percent off Hillary/Obama.

[colecrowe]

Who will start getting these petitions filled out? Who will give sheaves of them to their meetups group members?

[colecrowe]

bump

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

By the way, a quick google search yielded this online petition site:

http://draftronpaul.com/

It doesn't look very organized though. At least, not yet. I'm not sure how recent it is...

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

Anybody want to create a great site? I'll help with expenses.


By the way, a quick google search yielded this online petition site:

http://draftronpaul.com/

It doesn't look very organized though. At least, not yet. I'm not sure how recent it is...

[colecrowe]

bump

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I think the market demand will result in a decent site for a draft Ron Paul effort soon enough. I'd do it myself, if I had more than modest computer abilities. All I know is this: demand is high. We have a good plurality of supporters left on this forum alone who are clamoring for an independent run. Meanwhile, I have witnessed similar hopes expressed on blogs like Third Party Watch, and on both major internet radio stations from random callers: Ron Paul Radio and Ron Paul Revolution Radio. Meanwhile, we have at least three or four petition sites already up for Ron Paul to run independent/third party: a couple Libertarian Party ones, ronpaulwhitehouse.com, and now draftronpaul.com.

Look for popular demand for a Ron Paul indy run to have risen to a steaming pitch by late March, hopefully with the organization to back it up. We are just getting started.

[colecrowe]

bump

[speciallyblend]

good work,we have to have a plan. the voters of america have a right to have a better choice RON PAUL 2008

[SteveMartin]

I have been working on this for the past two weeks, calling major players in the grassroots, including wealthy donors, and even speaking to RP's brother, Wayne, and also his son Rand about it in recent days. Wayne volunteered to me that his brother never said he would not run "independent"--only that he would be guided by what his supporters insisted upon.

We are going to have to demand that he do it. And, he will--I believe. But we must demand it politely and persistently and we must reach a consensus that it is the right course among ourselves, AND QUICKLY.

I have also spoken to Congressman Bob Barr about this very topic a couple times, and he met with RP on Tuesday at 5:30 PM in D.C.

I agree that it must be an INDEPENDENT run and not a 3rd party run. Then, the ticket can go after the endorsements of all the third parties--even the Greens, though that might be the toughest one to get.

I believe if Barr is on the ticket, that his bulldog qualities would complement RP's qualities perfectly. Some have reservations about Bob Barr, and I must confess I don't know if his personal integrity is of RP's caliber, but he was better known nationally than RP at this time a year ago, led the impeachment of Clinton, and would leave the LP to run independent (I am convinced) with Ron Paul, if we could get this done. I am not, by any means, devoted to the Bob Barr option, and other excellent choices could be made with similar impact (Bob Smith, Walter Jones, Andrew Napolitano, Mark Sanford--the options are numerous...)

Anybody who wants to discuss in detail what I've been hearing/doing, etc. please call me:
207-532-3635.

For Ron Paul and the Republic,
Steve Martin
Meetup Coordinator #17
Aroostook County, ME

[SteveMartin]

bump

[mczerone]

i appreciate your efforts, but has anyone mentioned that the OPs petition needs massive Proofing?

At first glance:
cosider = consider,
and capitalize the entire header, and "President" would be capitalized anyway.

[SteveMartin]

bump

[SteveMartin]

bump

[SteveMartin]

bump

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I have been working on this for the past two weeks, calling major players in the grassroots, including wealthy donors, and even speaking to RP's brother, Wayne, and also his son Rand about it in recent days. Wayne volunteered to me that his brother never said he would not run "independent"--only that he would be guided by what his supporters insisted upon.

We are going to have to demand that he do it. And, he will--I believe. But we must demand it politely and persistently and we must reach a consensus that it is the right course among ourselves, AND QUICKLY.

I have also spoken to Congressman Bob Barr about this very topic a couple times, and he met with RP on Tuesday at 5:30 PM in D.C.

I agree that it must be an INDEPENDENT run and not a 3rd party run. Then, the ticket can go after the endorsements of all the third parties--even the Greens, though that might be the toughest one to get.

I believe if Barr is on the ticket, that his bulldog qualities would complement RP's qualities perfectly. Some have reservations about Bob Barr, and I must confess I don't know if his personal integrity is of RP's caliber, but he was better known nationally than RP at this time a year ago, led the impeachment of Clinton, and would leave the LP to run independent (I am convinced) with Ron Paul, if we could get this done. I am not, by any means, devoted to the Bob Barr option, and other excellent choices could be made with similar impact (Bob Smith, Walter Jones, Andrew Napolitano, Mark Sanford--the options are numerous...)

Anybody who wants to discuss in detail what I've been hearing/doing, etc. please call me:
207-532-3635.

For Ron Paul and the Republic,
Steve Martin
Meetup Coordinator #17
Aroostook County, ME

Steve,

This is very heartening to hear! So, it looks like the Barr-Paul talks were true, and not just a rumor!

I know the support is there for Ron Paul to go independent. I also agree that independent, rather than running on a specific third party ticket, would be best. Though as you pointed out, we should (and can) get the endorsement of numerous third parties.

And yes, this does need to happen quickly. The Libertarians and Constitution Party are holding their conventions already around May. What we need now, more than anything, is a good website to organize support for an independent run! That means someone with good web skills needs to step up and create one, or even turn one of the existing sites into a suitable vehicle.

Thanks again for the very positive info.

[SteveMartin]

LC4P,

Thanks. Unfortunately, I have no web design capabilities.

Let's hope someone steps up. The petition should be on page one of that website and prominently displayed. Then, we need to do what we all do best: SPREAD THE WORD.

[SteveMartin]

Jennifer just called back from Bob Barr's office to say he was in a hearing today, but that he'd get back to me later today, or tomorrow.

[SilentBull]

Guys, this is pointless. Why do people keep insisting? What we need is to get into positions of power ourselves. It was never about him becoming president. Listen to Edward Griffin. Get into power. Only then can we change this country from within. If you have to lie and pretend to be a Romney or McCain guy, do it!

What we really need is groups of people in every state that can help local supporters with information on how to join their local GOP party.

[rockandrollsouls]

I will sign my name to support Ron in an indy run, but the question is are we waiting for the convention to see what happens? I'm no political strategist so obviously I don't know what's best, but I want Ron on the ballot when I go to vote.

[SteveMartin]

The ultimate timing is debatable, but I would argue we should do it now in order to build maximum exposure for the ticket, and to have the maximum amount of time to get the message out that there truly is a REAL (as opposed to a bogus, Naderesque) Independent option this year.

[rockandrollsouls]

Steve, I know you happen to be behind alot of things...What's the legal deal with Louisianna? Has the Paul campaign considered trying to get McCain "disqualified" because of his campaign finance issues with the FEC? I, as well as many others I'm sure, are left in the dark. There haven't been many updates, so I'm kind of curious to know if you have any clue what's going on.

[SteveMartin]

No, I am in Maine. I do what I can, but the legal wranglings in LA are torchbearer's baby.

[Lovecraftian4Paul]

I have had another confirmation from someone at the Third Party Watch blog that the Ron Paul-Bob Barr talk did happen. Though no further details of what was discussed were provided, aside from what we already know. Very exciting!

[acptulsa]

I will sign my name to support Ron in an indy run, but the question is are we waiting for the convention to see what happens? I'm no political strategist so obviously I don't know what's best, but I want Ron on the ballot when I go to vote.

I don't think this petition means squat. It certainly won't impress the RNC. The only petitions that will show our serious nature are the ones that put Dr. Paul's name on the ballots of forty-six states.

[SteveMartin]

The L.P. is already on the ballot in 38 states, I believe, and the Constitution Party is on the ballot in 48 states. We should easily get the endorsement of those two, at a bare minimum. Ballot access will not be a problem. Getting an effectively-worded peition signed by enough people will be the first key problem to overcome.

P.S. Of course the meeting happened. Not sure we are going to get what we are talking for here out of it, but I should know by tomorrow.

[acptulsa]

The L.P. is already on the ballot in 38 states, I believe, and the Constitution Party is on the ballot in 48 states. We should easily get the endorsement of those two, at a bare minimum. Ballot access will not be a problem. Getting an effectively-worded peition signed by enough people will be the first key problem to overcome.

P.S. Of course the meeting happened. Not sure we are going to get what we are talking for here out of it, but I should know by tomorrow.

Now there's an interesting question. If the Libertarian and Constitution Parties have ballot access in certain states, and are willing to endorse Dr. Paul and forego fielding their own candidates, is it possible to get Dr. Paul on those ballots in those slots without actually showing him as their candidate? Sounds a tricky business, but it would be nice...

[SteveMartin]

I would think they would coordinate the situation so that in a state where only one party is allowed to list ONE candidate, that one of the two parties would withdraw their ballot line. Then, in states where no such rules exist, the ticket could appear twice under both parties' ballot lines.

[defe07]

I would think they would coordinate the situation so that in a state where only one party is allowed to list ONE candidate, that one of the two parties would withdraw their ballot line. Then, in states where no such rules exist, the ticket could appear twice under both parties' ballot lines.

I was wondering if ex-pats can sign the petition. If so, maybe we could do something to have ex-pats sign a petition for Paul to run as an Independent or 3rd party candidate. :D

[acptulsa]

I would think they would coordinate the situation so that in a state where only one party is allowed to list ONE candidate, that one of the two parties would withdraw their ballot line. Then, in states where no such rules exist, the ticket could appear twice under both parties' ballot lines.

Now that would be a sweet setup--and save some state activists a lot of trouble!

[SteveMartin]

Anybody can sign the petition. It's to Dr. Paul, and he should be listening to ALL his supporters, wherever they live.

[SteveMartin]

bump

[Ball]

grr...

The GOP convention hasn't even started yet!

Delegates can vote for whomever they want. The media tells you otherwise. They say it's a democracy, but it isn't. Primaries are popularity polls which are non-binding. The unit rule does not apply.

All of the delegates from Texas are going to vote Ron, what about your state?

[acptulsa]

Don't growl, ball. Getting Dr. Paul set up for an independent run and making sure we have the petitions to get him ballot access will simply be a nice, big stick that will allow him to speak ever so softly at the convention.

[AFM]

I would support an Indy run.

[SteveMartin]

Ball,

They count the votes there too, just like they "count" them in the primaries...an Independent run is our last best hope.

The talk of winning in a "brokered convention" coming out of Arlington accomplishes very little but maintenance of their high salaries for a few more months.

[SteveMartin]

Bump.

[SteveMartin]

bump

[colecrowe]

thanks much!


i appreciate your efforts, but has anyone mentioned that the OPs petition needs massive Proofing?

At first glance:
cosider = consider,
and capitalize the entire header, and "President" would be capitalized anyway.

[SteveMartin]

Bump!

[RonPaulFanInGA]

P.S. Of course the meeting happened. Not sure we are going to get what we are talking for here out of it, but I should know by tomorrow.

Wait, what? What are you expecting to know by tomorrow?

[colecrowe]

bump

[SteveMartin]

Wait, what? What are you expecting to know by tomorrow?

My best guess is RP will announce he is dropping out, and will endorse Bob Barr. My hope is he will announce he is dropping out of the Republican race in order to run with Bob Barr.

[defe07]

I think the best idea would be to have Paul stay until the Convention and have a backup plan where we could be doing backroom deals to have Paul follow through. I think Bloomberg had people do petition drives in states like TX if I'm not mistaken. Who's with me here?

[colecrowe]

Why on earth? The GOP hates him. 75% of the delegates will vote for anybody but Paul. They suck. We need to go independent and go after different voters. Only 32% of voting-eligible America is registered Republican anyway--and 41.5% is Democrat. That's only a third. And that means one-fourth is unaffiliated/independent.


I think the best idea would be to have Paul stay until the Convention and have a backup plan where we could be doing backroom deals to have Paul follow through. I think Bloomberg had people do petition drives in states like TX if I'm not mistaken. Who's with me here?


http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/party_affiliation/partisan_trends
In February, the number of Americans who consider themselves to be Democrats jumped to 41.5%, the highest total on record. Just 31.8% consider themselves to be Republicans. The partisan gap—a 9.7 percentage point advantage for the Democrats—is by far the largest it has ever been. The previous high was a 6.9 point edge for the Democrats in December 2006. Rasmussen Reports tracks this information based upon telephone interviews with approximately 15,000 adults per month and has been doing so since November 2002.

The 9.7 percentage point advantage for Democrats is up from a 5.6 point advantage a month ago (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/party_affiliation/number_of_democrats_in_country_hits_four_year_high _during_first_month_of_election_2008)and a 2.1 point advantage two months ago (http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/party_affiliation/partisan_trends_number_of_republicans_in_u_s_incre ases_in_december_to_two_year_high).The surge for the Democrats is especially notable because it reversed a modest trend in the GOP direction that unfolded over much of calendar year 2007 (see history from January 2004 to present). (http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/mood_of_america/party_affiliation/party_affiliation/summary_of_party_affiliation)

[colecrowe]

bump

[colecrowe]

bump

[BarryDonegan]

i fully support a third party run by ron paul. i think that if he picked a social conservative running mate like pat buchanan, chuck hagal, or bob barr that they could win the vote of the old republicans.

[colecrowe]

bump

[SteveMartin]

Chuck Hagel is a Bilderburger. Steer clear.

I am expecting a call from Bob Barr today--according to his secretary.

I am hoping he will tell me that Dr. Paul did NOT rule out an independent run during their meeting on Tuesday.

[constituent]

I think the best idea would be to have Paul stay until the Convention and have a backup plan where we could be doing backroom deals to have Paul follow through. I think Bloomberg had people do petition drives in states like TX if I'm not mistaken. Who's with me here?

an independent run won't work in texas.

[SteveMartin]

an independent run won't work in texas.


How come?

[Razmear]

In another thread it mentioned the deadline for filing 10,000 signatures in SC was 5/1/08, so if we are going to do this, we need to start really soon.
I would 100% support Ron in an Independent run.
eb

[SteveMartin]

We are not re-creating the wheel here. Last I heard, the Constitution Party was on the ballot in 48 states, and the Libertarian Party was on the ballot in 38 states. Between the two we would have ballot access in all 50 states.

[IDefendThePlatform]

We are not re-creating the wheel here. Last I heard, the Constitution Party was on the ballot in 48 states, and the Libertarian Party was on the ballot in 38 states. Between the two we would have ballot access in all 50 states.

Could he accept both party's nominations? That would be great for ballot access and some publicity.

Paul/Barr 08! America needs it now!

[SteveMartin]

That's the plan...and they would go after ALL the other little 3rd parties too...

[speciallyblend]

Let's help the gop like they helped Ron Paul (Sarcasm)

time to send a message to the gop
THE GOP IS DEAD

[SteveMartin]

YEP!

Let's put the nail in that coffin and move on!

[colecrowe]

bump

[SteveMartin]

Please answer this poll question:

http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?t=126930

I plan to call Ron Paul and Bob Barr today if we get 200 responses...About 80 right now...